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謝謝主席我們請台糖那個續職部執行長台糖 吳董對 台糖公司續職部執行長董事長你請回你請回"},{"start":27.898,"end":45.631,"text":"市長我想這個問題 請問你最清楚那就是說我要跟你探討的這個議題其實一直都是重複被探討就是台糖的農業循環養豬場的一個改建一延再延"},{"start":46.912,"end":68.588,"text":"延宕的一個進度我們很明顯看到就是說台糖的龍躍循環養豬場它的投資一個計畫從107年啟動我們希望希望就是說這13座可以就是投資了124億那目前你的進度到哪裡那我想聽聽看經過了8年來 執行長有沒有了解"},{"start":71.79,"end":87.323,"text":"是 謝謝委員目前的進度是我們到今年都已經把那個肉出廠的部分都已經有進駐飼養到今年底之前應該可以全部完工那明年全力推進在後年會恢復到我們計畫的飼養量"},{"start":88.936,"end":112.763,"text":"後年會恢復到那個你們計畫的飼養量來我們看一下這一個養豬場跳票在跳票2024年宴會裡頭我執行經濟部行政院院長台堂回顧說這一個在2024年7月的第一期這六座豬場統包的工程全數會進行飼養"},{"start":115.427,"end":131.13,"text":"如何跳票第二期七座的豬場在2024年那個年底飼養也跳票好相對於就是說相關的一個進度我們甚至看到了就是說像你現在這樣子回應我"},{"start":132.355,"end":143.637,"text":"在未來他可以如期的飼養為什麼我們不要真正的去面對問題你的第二期四座的肉豬場預計在114年4月底完工三座的種豬場你預計在114年6月底前完工可是這個是你在2025年1月13號台糖的恢復"},{"start":155.76,"end":171.629,"text":"我們次之百億換來的是一再的跳票現在也跳票了你看在今年一月我們有一個委員高雄的委員也是在質問這一個問題執行長你還是要告訴我這樣的一個答案嗎"},{"start":173.386,"end":184.636,"text":"經濟部長在這個地方 你的董事長在這個地方那你如何來督促這一個這一個本來是要養豬的怎麼辦啊 我們要面對問題啊"},{"start":188.88,"end":210.776,"text":"我們要面對問題我們不要去逃避問題你的包商擺爛那我們台談不能消極啊這個是一個國家級的一個產業如果我們淪為這樣子惡性的一個循環你現在還沒有驗收收場的還有葉梅1、2、豆柳、鹿草、南景、善化還有南沙還有401、402你還會選出一種大小1跟2那怎麼辦呢驗收延宕"},{"start":217.301,"end":233.842,"text":"它其實不是單純的工程的一個進度問題你包商擺爛 你台廠消極的不監督 年代的導致你下游的廠商你款項卡關啦 你資金斷吹你這個形成產業鏈惡性的一個循環 你現在給我捏多少錢啊"},{"start":236.564,"end":260.001,"text":"包委員我們目前的進度基本上都是給依照工程進度給那一期的同胞商大概都會到70幾%你如果說按照進度給你已經給了70幾%的工程費了那為什麼大家一定要驗收啊驗收才可以領到後面的尾數款啊那為什麼就是說一個124"},{"start":263.062,"end":289.05,"text":"124億的重大工程的投資你不應該淪為一個沒有責任沒有進度沒有管理的工程的一個災難我們怎麼樣去處理這些問題呢那你的法律是在哪裡呢台堂的法律是有沒有提供你們什麼樣的一個建議你延宕了這麼久那我希望我希望這個我也是收集了很多很多的一個資料就是說有沒有機會減價驗收"},{"start":291.511,"end":298.04,"text":"因為你沒有驗收的話他拿不到畜牧登記證嘛你就沒辦法吃嘛你不要再用當初合約的那一個標準來驗收有沒有機會這樣子做呢你們的法律是有沒有做過這樣的一個討論呢 執行長我來"},{"start":310.356,"end":326.135,"text":"這個流程的部分我們已經有做過評估剛剛您說的減價驗收依照那個公共工程採購法我們在還沒有驗收這個動作之前我們不可以提出減價驗收這個字眼出來那基本上"},{"start":327.016,"end":339.78,"text":"我們也沒有消極怠惰或者把它當成蚊子管我們能夠用的空間我們已經提早使用市長我跟你講 你的政府採購法第72條你說還沒有驗收以前你不能先提出減價驗收"},{"start":341.781,"end":363.318,"text":"你可能要再回去了解一下我跟你講如果你還是一直堅持這樣的一個態度的話這個東西是無解的是無解的124億這怎麼去延續了兩任的董事長現在已經是第三任的董事長為什麼我不讓董事長上來這個沒有董事長的事情啊"},{"start":364.361,"end":391.402,"text":"可是你怎麼監督他你的責任重大所以我在這裡要求就是說台廠在一個月內提出這個13座主廠主廠的一個進度跟驗收的一個期程不能再消極的敷衍了那你清楚的交代每一個廠他的卡關的原因缺失的一個項目責任的一個歸屬跟正式驗收的一個啟用時程不要再把這個"},{"start":392.903,"end":420.182,"text":"講得這麼好聽 我跟你講 再讓你兩年 你也沒辦法嚴修啦那我也希望台糖繼續啟動這個理業管理專案的一個機制 你要啟動理業管理專案的一個機制啊 對那些消極代工或是理業不利的一個承包商 你要依法就責啊我們是吃了慢虧啊你這個大同公司這麼大你不是只有做電鍋啊 你的股票上市啊 怎麼他來欺負我們台糖"},{"start":422.644,"end":443.039,"text":"那你這個山水林公司工程公司他的資本額也三四十億啊都是一個非常大的一個公司啊沒有沒有沒辦法改革的工程問題啊就是看我們自己台廠的一個態度我覺得限期改善才華球場還有啟動替代的方案不要再拖了"},{"start":443.399,"end":464.555,"text":"那台糖跟經濟部應該提出產業的一個銜接的方案不要讓工程跟驗收不斷的一個延宕拖垮下游的廠商我們不希望看到台灣的養豬產業現代化升級一再的空轉好不好 執行長那個一個業內提出這樣的一個計畫給本席是 謝謝主席好 謝謝 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:15:18.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:15:18.615000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:15:19.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:15:22.717000+08:00","text":"我們請台糖畜殖部執行長。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T11:15:23.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:15:23.577000+08:00","text":"台糖吳董？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:15:24.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:15:26.739000+08:00","text":"對，台糖公司畜殖部執行長。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:15:26.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:15:32.462000+08:00","text":"董事長，你請回。謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:15:36.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:16:14.887000+08:00","text":"執行長，我想這個問題問你，你最清楚，我要跟你探討的議題其實一直都被重複探討，就是台糖農業循環養豬場的改建一延再延，我們很明顯看到延宕的進度，台糖農業循環豬場投資計畫從107年啟動，這13座投資了124億，目前你的進度到哪裡？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:16:15.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:16:16.568000+08:00","text":"我想聽聽看，經過了8年，執行長有沒有了解？","quality":1},{"speaker":"溫執行長元文","start":"2026-05-20T11:16:20.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:16:21.852000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"溫執行長元文","start":"2026-05-20T11:16:21.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:16:35.303000+08:00","text":"目前的進度是今年肉豬場的部分都已經有進駐試養，今年底之前應該可以全部完工，明年全力推進，後年會恢復到我們計畫的試養量，以上報告。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:16:36.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:16:40.317000+08:00","text":"後年會恢復到你們計畫的試養量。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:16:41.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:17:04.228000+08:00","text":"我們看一下，台糖養豬場跳票再跳票，2024年院會我質詢經濟部、行政院院長，台糖回復：2024年7月第一期，6座豬場統包工程全數會進行試養。如何？跳票！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:17:05.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:17:10.297000+08:00","text":"第二期7座豬場在2024年年底試養也跳票。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:17:11.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:17:26.596000+08:00","text":"相對於相關的進度，甚至看到像你現在這樣回應我說未來它可以如期試養，為什麼你們不去真正面對問題？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:17:26.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:17:48.663000+08:00","text":"你的第二期4座肉豬場預計在114年4月底完工，3座種豬場預計在114年6月底前完工，可是這個是在2025年1月13號台糖的回復，我們斥資百億換來的是一再的跳票，現在也跳票了。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:17:49.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:17:59.629000+08:00","text":"你看在今年1月，我們有一位高雄的委員也是在質問這個問題，執行長，你還是要告訴我這樣的答案嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:18:01.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:18:08.393000+08:00","text":"經濟部長在這個地方，你的董事長也在這個地方，你如何督促這個部分？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:18:08.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:18:11.615000+08:00","text":"本來是要養豬的，結果變成養蚊子，怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:18:11.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:18:38.596000+08:00","text":"我們要面對問題，不要逃避問題，雖然包商擺爛，但台糖不能消極，這是國家級的產業，如果淪為這樣的惡性循環，你現在還沒有驗收的場還有月眉一、二、斗六、鹿草、南靖、善化、南沙、四林一、四林二，還有新厝育種、大響一跟二場，怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:18:38.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:19:01.821000+08:00","text":"驗收延宕，它其實不是單純的工程進度問題，包商擺爛，而台糖消極不監督，連帶導致下游的廠商款項卡關、資金斷炊，這會形成產業鏈的惡性循環，你們現在讓人家領多少錢了？","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"溫執行長元文","start":"2026-05-20T11:19:04.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:19:13.731000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們目前的進度，基本上都是依照工程進度給，這期的統包商大概都會到百分之七十幾。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:19:13.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:19:41.846000+08:00","text":"執行長，如果按照進度給，你已經給了百分之七十幾的工程費，一定要驗收，驗收才可以領到後面的尾數款，一個124億的重大工程投資，不應該淪為沒有責任、沒有進度、沒有管理的工程災難，我們怎麼樣去處理這些問題呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:19:42.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:19:44.026000+08:00","text":"你的法律依據在哪裡呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:19:45.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:19:47.687000+08:00","text":"台糖的法律依據有沒有提供你們什麼樣的建議？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:19:47.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:19:57.030000+08:00","text":"你延宕了這麼久，我也是蒐集了很多、很多的資料，有沒有機會減價驗收？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:19:59.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:20:04.678000+08:00","text":"因為沒有驗收的話，他拿不到畜牧登記證就沒辦法養，你不要再用當初合約的標準來驗收，有沒有機會這樣做呢？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:20:05.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:20:05.860000+08:00","text":"你們在法律的部分有沒有做過這樣的討論呢？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:20:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:20:06.020000+08:00","text":"執行長，請說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"溫執行長元文","start":"2026-05-20T11:20:18.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:20:39.758000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關流程的部分，我們已經有做過評估，剛剛您說的減價驗收，依照政府採購法，在還沒有驗收這個動作之前，我們不可以提出減價驗收這個字眼，基本上我們也沒有消極怠惰或者把它當成蚊子館，能夠用的空間我們已經提早使用……","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:20:40.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:20:52.263000+08:00","text":"執行長，我跟你講，有關政府採購法第七十二條的規定，你說還沒有驗收以前不能先提出減價驗收，你可能要再回去了解一下。是。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:20:54.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:21:13.342000+08:00","text":"如果你還是一直堅持這樣的態度，這個工程案是無解的，124億耶，延續了兩任的董事長，現在已經是第三任的董事長，為什麼我不讓董事長上來，因為這沒有董事長的事情啊，主要是你怎麼監督？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:21:14.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:21:15.283000+08:00","text":"你的責任重大。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:21:16.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:21:44.366000+08:00","text":"所以我在這裡要求，請台糖在一個月內提出這13座豬場的逐場進度跟驗收期程，不能再消極敷衍，你要清楚地交代每一個場的卡關原因、缺失項目、責任歸屬跟正式驗收的啟用時程，不要再把這些狀況講得這麼好聽，我跟你說，再給你兩年也沒辦法驗收。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:21:45.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:00.977000+08:00","text":"我也希望台糖立即啟動履約管理的專案機制，對於那些消極怠工或是履約不力的承包商要依法究責，我們是吃了悶虧啊！","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:22:01.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:31.019000+08:00","text":"大同公司這麼大，不是只有做電鍋，他的股票上市，怎麼卻來欺負我們台糖，我們台糖被他欺負，另外山水林環境工程公司的資本額也有三、四十億，都是非常大的公司，沒有無法解決的工程問題，就是看台糖自己的態度，我覺得你們必須要求他們限期改善、裁罰、求償還有啟動替代方案，不要再拖了。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:22:31.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:46.850000+08:00","text":"台糖跟經濟部應該提出產業的銜接方案，不要讓工程跟驗收不斷延宕，拖垮下游廠商，我們不希望看到臺灣養豬產業的現代化升級一再空轉，好不好？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:22:47.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:50.693000+08:00","text":"執行長，一個月內提出這樣一個計畫給本席。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"溫執行長元文","start":"2026-05-20T11:22:51.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:51.754000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝指教。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-05-20T11:22:52.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:52.555000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T11:22:53.055000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:55.055000+08:00","text":"謝謝賴惠員委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T11:22:55.355000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T11:22:58.497857+08:00","text":"接下來請陳超明委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}