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有一些台塘的員工講他說這就是因為之前王美花"},{"start":164.031,"end":193.076,"text":"他要求包括台電、中油、台糖跟台水通通都要換Logo啊所以下面的人就開始換啊可是實際上台糖員工、台糖經銷商都不認為要換覺得舊的比較好嘛所以你們就花了116萬浪費了啊你是為了起標案而起標案不是有需求而起標案這個事情就讓大家覺得很莫名其妙嘛我們也是要年輕的話像我們那你後來那你就是沒有做啊你就沒有做嘛那請問一下你Logo換了沒"},{"start":194.036,"end":208.332,"text":"你LOGO換了沒你回答我你LOGO換了沒我們兩個LOGO你LOGO換了沒嘛你沒有換就代表你沒有做你講半天你錢花了你沒有做你現在跟我說你要年輕化不要再阿了啦大家聽不下去現在部長部長現在是這樣啦好不好剛剛講說兩個都有在用"},{"start":209.073,"end":224.444,"text":"那有用是不是有用在哪 什麼地方我們有商標註冊商標註冊而已嘛 你有沒有換心嘛我跟你講 部長因為我剛剛講我一開始就說這跟你無關那是王美花的事情但是我覺得國營事業的治理不可以這樣"},{"start":225.345,"end":243.902,"text":"你今天要做什麼事情 你要有需求 你再取標案不是部長突發起想 我看不順眼然後就 欸你給我換logo 然後下面說好 那我來換然後換了以後呢 大家又覺得不OK 錢花了不做我覺得這個大家不能接受 所以我希望部長你聽到之前他們這樣處理 不要再發生這樣的事情主要的理由還是因為2023年整個經濟部主改"},{"start":247.345,"end":266.466,"text":"對嘛,就因為王美花下台了嘛,所以想說部長下台好了,我們剛好就不要換,那錢已經花了啊,這很荒謬嘛然後第二個齁,台湯可以請回了,那部長另外我想請教一下,你們之前外貿協會下面本來有一個處改組成為台灣設計研究院對吧"},{"start":267.954,"end":294.867,"text":"台灣設計研究院不是外貿協會改的喔外貿協會下面有一個處啦對啊它有一個設計研究中心的樣子設計研究中心改的這個台灣設計研究院第一任的董事長叫林全能這你應該知道是誰嘛那個時候都是兼的當時都是次長兼的董事長是誰嘛管他兼還是專就是董事長就是他嘛然後第二任的董事長是誰第二任董事長是是和"},{"start":296.687,"end":312.097,"text":"何進昌 也是次長兼的嘛對對對 過聯知這個設計研究院的關係他跟經濟部關係很好嘛所以才會由政務次長去兼任他的董事長沒有錯啊 因為他但是現在大家覺得很不合理的地方是什麼呢 就是"},{"start":313.077,"end":331.572,"text":"經濟部或者是國營事業當有設計標案的時候大概101個標案其中有98個標案都是由這一個跟經濟部關係非常良好的台灣設計研究院直接得標然後大概總金額是25億左右我現在想請教一下部長"},{"start":332.393,"end":360.981,"text":"請問一下你們經濟部或所屬單位把標案給這個台灣設計研究院你們會公開評選嗎就是會公開徵求不投廠商來投標然後經過一個評選還是直接簽就是說因為台灣設計研究院很棒然後我們特殊需求所以我這個案子直接給他做是哪一種據我了解啦因為我還沒簽過啦這個Maybe也不用簽到我這邊一定金額以下的是首長他可以"},{"start":361.821,"end":377.264,"text":"直接簽沒有啊我知道一定金額以下可以直接簽但是一定金額以下也可以公開評選嘛所以我現在是確定這個台灣經濟研究院他得標是直接簽給他還是你把資料給我好不好好不好我現在跟你要總共他"},{"start":377.905,"end":401.741,"text":"投標了101個經濟部相關的標案他中了98個你告訴我他多少是經過評選還有多少是直接簽給他好不好這個資料你會後提供給我那為什麼我要這樣問呢因為如果跟他跟經濟部關係這麼好經濟部都直接把標案直接簽給他不用公開評選然後台灣經濟研究院得標以後他再把他發包給什麼聶永禎發標給他喜歡的人台灣設計研究院"},{"start":407.785,"end":421.863,"text":"他得標 他直接拿到然後再直接發包給這些外圍廠商那他就是進金門擺手套啊這就很擺明就是規避採購法啊欸沒有 他好像有公開評選喔他有沒有符合採購法嘛他有沒有受採購法規範嘛"},{"start":423.024,"end":449.692,"text":"一定要符合啊不是他有沒有他不用嘛因為採購法這一段是他拿到經濟部的案子是符合採購法因為你們直接簽但是他直接給廠商的時候他愛給誰就給誰他是內規嘛這個是內規不是法律你不可以讓這個變成白手套嘛而且我還看過台灣設計研究院拿工業局的案子然後美化什麼工業區裡面有個美學顧問是蘇貞昌的女兒啦"},{"start":450.572,"end":473.465,"text":"那院長所屬的管轄的經濟部然後管轄的設計研究院的案子然後找了院長的女兒來當美學顧問那他應該是公開招標應該不要應該應該不應該好不好你直接跟我講好不好是他中標率很高嘛101個案子他中標98個啊因為他本來就是屬於經濟部的"},{"start":475.046,"end":503.225,"text":"所以你們就給他 我知道啊對啊 像以前的這個 製策會啊我們也有很多案子是給製策會啊那就不要採購法好了啦如果說反正製策會 我也全部給他就不要採購法啦所以不曉得你知道我在講什麼不要繞來繞去了啦 好不好你就把資料給我就好了我們看資料再來講啦 好 謝謝那個請那個產發署好不好因為台灣社區一定是歸你產發署督導"},{"start":504.085,"end":523.965,"text":"那主要業委員想要明白就是說到底他標了哪些案子哪些是公開招標哪些你職場再來就是說他拿到標案之後再下去他自己是不是也是走公開招標因為之前都是公開招標even發報出去也是但是你要去清查清楚好不好那個邱署長再去清查給這個業委員OK 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:33:32.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:33:48.680000+08:00","text":"主席好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:33:48.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:33:51.722000+08:00","text":"麻煩請部長，還有台糖董事長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:33:51.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:33:53.583000+08:00","text":"我們請龔部長跟台糖吳董事長。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:33:53.583000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:33:56.865500+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:33:56.865500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:34:00.148000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:34:00.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:34:18.237000+08:00","text":"我先跟台糖董事長確認一下，你們說你們在112年有花116萬設計一個CIS，包括一個新的logo，但是因為後來員工覺得好像不OK，再加上原本很多商品有金招牌，所以想一想這個logo就沒有用，這是你講的，沒有錯吧？對。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"吳董事長明昌","start":"2026-05-20T12:34:21.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:34:30.415000+08:00","text":"報告委員，還有經銷商的原因，因為我們很多都是B2C的，那……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:34:31.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:34:32.417000+08:00","text":"經銷商不接受？對。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:34:34.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:34:44.207000+08:00","text":"你這樣講，我就覺得非常荒謬，部長，你其實是背黑鍋，因為後來大家都知道這個是王美花搞的，但是有一件事情，那你當初怎麼驗收的？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:34:45.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:34:54.535000+08:00","text":"你的錢付出去了，人家做的logo給你了，然後你驗收了，錢付了，最後員工覺得不OK，就不用了，那你當初怎麼驗收的？","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:34:55.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:10.426000+08:00","text":"第二個，如果你是以員工熟不熟悉或經銷商覺得OK不OK，來當作一個logo能不能夠換的標準，那當初你們在設計你的標案的時候，有沒有講說要員工熟悉、要經銷商覺得OK？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:10.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:13.168000+08:00","text":"有沒有把這個設定招標的標準寫進去？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:13.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:13.629000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳董事長明昌","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:14.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:29.835000+08:00","text":"報告委員，那是112年朝年輕化設計的時候，我跟委員報告，比如說，台糖礦泉水的logo二十幾年來都沒有改變，我進去以後一看，心想，怎麼是一個LKK的logo？","quality":0.627},{"speaker":"吳董事長明昌","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:31.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:40.905000+08:00","text":"所以我們趁這個機會精進我們礦泉水的quality，然後不花任何錢……","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:41.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:42.546000+08:00","text":"你不要扯別的啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:42.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:47.511000+08:00","text":"我現在講的是，你花了116萬，結果這錢白花了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:49.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:35:54.936000+08:00","text":"當初你們在起標案，甚至於後面驗收，過程當中到底是怎麼了？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:35:56.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:02.982000+08:00","text":"當然你們是國營事業，可能也是自負盈虧，但你們也有官股成分，你等於是間接浪費納稅人的錢嘛！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:04.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:31.634000+08:00","text":"從這個事情，我看到一個國營事業治理很大的問題，後面有報導，有一些台糖的員工講說，就是因為之前王美花要求包括台電、中油、台糖跟台水統統都要換logo，所以下面的人就開始換，可是實際上台糖員工、台糖經銷商都不認為要換，就是舊的比較好，所以你們花了116萬就是浪費了啊！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:31.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:37.995000+08:00","text":"你是為了起標案而起標案，不是有需求而起標案，這個事情就會讓大家覺得很莫名其妙嘛！","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"吳董事長明昌","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:38.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:39.995000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們也是要年輕化，像我們改……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:40.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:41.455000+08:00","text":"那你就是沒有做啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:42.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:42.936000+08:00","text":"你就是沒有做嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:43.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:44.056000+08:00","text":"那請問一下，你們的logo換了沒？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:45.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:45.617000+08:00","text":"你logo換了沒？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:45.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:46.558000+08:00","text":"你回答我logo換了沒？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"吳董事長明昌","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:46.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:47.058000+08:00","text":"我們兩個logo……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:47.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:48.580000+08:00","text":"你logo換了沒嘛？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:48.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:52.525000+08:00","text":"你沒有換就代表你沒有做，講半天，錢花了，但你沒有做，你現在跟我說你要年輕化！","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:53.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:54.807000+08:00","text":"不要再拗了，大家聽不下去。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:56.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:57.170000+08:00","text":"部長，現在是這樣……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:36:58.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:36:59.312000+08:00","text":"剛剛講說兩個都有在用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:00.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:01.754000+08:00","text":"有用是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:01.754000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:02.754000+08:00","text":"對，他有用。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:02.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:03.195000+08:00","text":"有用在什麼地方？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳董事長明昌","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:03.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:05.297000+08:00","text":"我們有商標註冊……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:05.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:07.479000+08:00","text":"商標註冊而已嘛，你有沒有換新嘛？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:08.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:34.061000+08:00","text":"部長，我剛剛一開始就說這跟你無關，那是王美花的事情，但是我覺得國營事業的治理不可以這樣，你今天要做什麼事情，你要有需求，再起標案，不是部長突發奇想，看不順眼，就說要換logo，然後下面的人就來換；換了以後，大家都覺得不OK，錢花了不做，我覺得這個大家不能接受，所以我希望部長你聽到之前他們這樣處理，就不要再發生這樣的事情。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:34.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:38.345000+08:00","text":"主要是因為2023年整個經濟部組改……對嘛！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:38.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:43.190000+08:00","text":"就是因為王美花下台了，所以大家就想說，部長下台，好，我們剛好就不要換，但錢已經花了啊！","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:43.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:44.652000+08:00","text":"這就很荒謬嘛。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:48.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:37:57.446000+08:00","text":"部長，另外我想請教一下，外貿協會下面本來有一個處，改組成為臺灣設計研究院，對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:37:58.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:01.615000+08:00","text":"臺灣設計研究院不是外貿協會改的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:02.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:04.697000+08:00","text":"外貿協會下面有一個處啦。對、對。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:05.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:09.799000+08:00","text":"它有一個設計研究中心，設計研究中心改的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:09.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:14.381000+08:00","text":"臺灣設計研究院第一任的董事長叫林全能，這你應該知道是誰嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:14.381000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:17.203000+08:00","text":"以前經濟部的。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:17.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:18.983000+08:00","text":"當時都是次長兼董事長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:18.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:19.584000+08:00","text":"是誰嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:19.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:21.945000+08:00","text":"管他兼還是專，董事長就是他嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:21.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:22.945000+08:00","text":"對，都是次長兼的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:22.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:24.306000+08:00","text":"然後第二任董事長是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:24.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:27.687000+08:00","text":"第二任董事長是何……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:27.687000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:28.808000+08:00","text":"何晉滄。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:28.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:30.789000+08:00","text":"何晉滄嘛，也是次長兼的？對、對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:31.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:38.174000+08:00","text":"換言之，這個設計研究院跟經濟部關係很好，所以才會由政務次長去兼任董事長。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:38.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:38.554000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:39.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:38:42.556000+08:00","text":"但是現在大家覺得很不合理的地方是什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:38:42.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:39:01.031000+08:00","text":"就是經濟部或國營事業有設計標案的時候，大概101個標案中有98個標案都是由這個跟經濟部關係非常良好的臺灣設計研究院直接得標，然後總金額是25億左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:39:01.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:39:10.215000+08:00","text":"我現在想請教部長，請問你們經濟部或所屬單位把標案給臺灣設計研究院會公開評選嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:39:10.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:39:21.318000+08:00","text":"就是會公開徵求不同廠商來投標，然後經過評選，還是直接簽，就是因為臺灣設計研究院很棒，然後你們有特殊需求，所以案子就直接給它做？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:39:21.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:39:23.398000+08:00","text":"是哪一種？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:39:23.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:39:33.082000+08:00","text":"據我了解，因為我還沒有簽過，maybe也不用簽到我這邊，一定金額以下的，是首長可以直接簽……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:39:34.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:39:45.480000+08:00","text":"我知道一定金額以下可以直接簽，但是一定金額以下也可以公開評選，所以我現在要確定臺灣經濟研究院得標是你們直接簽給它，還是別的，你把資料給我，好不好？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:39:46.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:39:59.072000+08:00","text":"我現在跟你要，它總共投標了101個經濟部相關的標案，它中了98個，你告訴我，多少是經過評選，還有多少是直接簽給它，好不好？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:39:59.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:00.953000+08:00","text":"這個資料你會後提供給我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:01.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:02.594000+08:00","text":"為什麼我要這樣問呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:03.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:12.521000+08:00","text":"因為如果它跟經濟部關係這麼好，經濟部都直接把標案簽給它，不用公開評選，然後臺灣經濟研究院得標以後，再發包給什麼聶永真，發包給它喜歡的人。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:12.521000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:13.521000+08:00","text":"是設計研究院，不是經濟研究院。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:12.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:25.674000+08:00","text":"臺灣設計研究院，它直接拿到標案，然後再直接發包給這些外圍廠商，那它就是經濟部的白手套啊！","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:25.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:28.037000+08:00","text":"這就擺明是規避採購法啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:28.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:29.699000+08:00","text":"沒有，好像有公開評選喔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:30.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:31.301000+08:00","text":"那有沒有符合採購法嘛？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:32.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:32.843000+08:00","text":"它有沒有受採購法規範嘛？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:32.843000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:34.024000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:34.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:34.964000+08:00","text":"一定要符合。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:35.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:36.365000+08:00","text":"不是，它有沒有？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:36.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:47.688000+08:00","text":"它不用嘛，它從經濟部拿到案子這一段是符合採購法，因為你們直接簽，但是它直接給廠商的時候，就是它愛給誰就給誰，是內規嘛。","quality":0.736},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:48.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:40:52.389000+08:00","text":"這個是內規，不是法律，你不可以讓這個變成白手套嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:40:52.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:10.777000+08:00","text":"而且我還看過臺灣設計研究院拿工業局的案子美化工業區，裡面有一個美學顧問是蘇貞昌的女兒，院長管轄的經濟部所管轄的設計研究院的案子，找了院長的女兒來當美學顧問。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:10.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:11.978000+08:00","text":"那它應該是公開招標喔。應該？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:11.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:16+08:00","text":"不要應該，應該不應該，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:16.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:17.881000+08:00","text":"你直接跟我講，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:18.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:22.944000+08:00","text":"它中標率很高嘛，101個案子，中標98個。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:23.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:24.445000+08:00","text":"因為它本來就是屬於經濟部的單位……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:26.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:28.368000+08:00","text":"所以你們就給它，我知道啊。對啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:30.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:35.692000+08:00","text":"像以前的資策會，我們也有很多案子是給資策會。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:35.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:40.856000+08:00","text":"那就不要採購法好了，反正資策會的標案就全部給它，就不要採購法了。按照……","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:43.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:45.659000+08:00","text":"部長，你知道我在講什麼，你就不要繞來繞去了，好不好？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:46.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:49.441000+08:00","text":"你就把資料給我就好了，我們看資料再來講，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:50.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:41:51.443000+08:00","text":"請產發署，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:41:51.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:01.171000+08:00","text":"因為臺灣設計研究院是歸產發署督導，葉委員想要明白的就是到底它標了哪些案子，哪些是公開招標，哪些是你們直接給。","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:02.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:07.157000+08:00","text":"再來就是它拿到標案之後，再下去，它自己是不是也是走公開招標？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:07.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:12.603000+08:00","text":"因為資策會以前都是公開招標，即使發包出去，也是公開招標，但是你要去清查清楚，好不好？","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:13.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:14.905000+08:00","text":"邱署長，再去清查，把資料給葉委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:14.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:14.965000+08:00","text":"OK，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:15.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:19.179286+08:00","text":"何欣純、何欣純，何欣純委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:19.479286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:23.193571+08:00","text":"接下來我們請廖先翔委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}