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它的充電那其實它是也是有這個時間電價的差別"},{"start":39.589,"end":63.002,"text":"也就是說已經就是那種外面的那種快充站如果說他有申請時間限價的話那離峰跟尖峰分別大概是多少錢那個我跟委員報告好不好離峰跟尖峰的價格大概三跟十二塊一個八塊多一個八塊多一個四塊兩塊多對大概三塊應該十二塊三塊跟十二塊那這個如果說你是業者的話你大概會怎麼定價"},{"start":69.414,"end":88.878,"text":"那個跟你是說充電的業者對假設你是業者的話你要賣電給電動車主嗎你大概會怎麼定價我這樣講啊那個當然是量量出為入嘛就是很簡單我我我用付了多少電費加上攤體來來收取可能的合理費用啊沒有既然我們有時間電價的話業者還會做的是如果說我現在這個時間電價是假設3塊錢那我就由3塊錢往上加"},{"start":95.379,"end":98.344,"text":"如果現在時間定價是12塊的話那我就是從12塊往上加那我們是消費者的話加起來也算3塊一張紙對不對"},{"start":110.205,"end":129.379,"text":"那也是說我們一天飛夏季的時候我們大概其實這應該有委員談論這個公車業者也是一樣的問題那現在就是普通的消費者我們飛夏季的時候3到9嘛對不對下午3到9那夏季的話是下午的4到10那也就是說在尖峰時間這段間價的時間定價是非常高的那我們的"},{"start":134.195,"end":156.885,"text":"車主會避開在這段時間去充電嘛這是合理的一個消費行為那也就是說我們扣掉上班時間一般的上班族可能上班時間你一般來說也不太會去充電啊那導致說他下班之後他下班之後要去充電他要等到九點之後非夏季的時候九點鐘夏季的時間要十點之後他才能夠有比較便宜的電價去充電"},{"start":158.271,"end":166.626,"text":"那會造成許多的車主在充電上面在時間調配上面非常的不方便我不確定台電或者是經濟部長我們工部長有沒有對這個電動車主有沒有接觸過這樣的一個訊息"},{"start":172.069,"end":183.757,"text":"報告委員因為夜間風時間本來就是電力比較需要的時候那時候電價本來就當然我理解你們為什麼會這樣子嘛跟其他一樣我們有間離風嘛但是我們今天如果說我們是開遊車我們24小時隨時去加入一樣的錢啊但是當我們國家我剛剛就先問部長我們國家在推動電動車的時候我們要幫電動車的車主去排除他一些使用上面的障礙嗎"},{"start":197.085,"end":223.443,"text":"包括充電就是他們在時間上面的一個不方便的狀態他們要需要等到晚上9點之後10點之後他才有比較便宜的一個電價可以使用這件事情明顯起來他就是一個抗力跟阻力讓大家去買電動車嘛我們現在也支持廣設這個電動樁你停車的地方就有電動樁那你停了以後你去上班的時候也有電動樁我現在提出這個問題"},{"start":224.844,"end":234.454,"text":"你們我想這個問題今天我提出來你們要不要正式嘛是是是保安委員因為如果大家全部都擠在這個下班以後來充電的話那這個再怎麼樣電力上的這個台電喔台電的這個"},{"start":241.361,"end":256.619,"text":"電力的問題嘛 我們知道嘛 所以說這個時間點啊 醒來醒來已久了 醒來已久了但是以前大部分受到影響的大概都是工廠比較受到影響對不對 他們可以自己調配這個上下班的時間但是一般的電動車主不是啊"},{"start":258.627,"end":275.122,"text":"那之前我們確定是部長還是這個董事長有針對公車業者之前公車業者也有提出這樣子的需求委員在這邊提出來公車業者有這樣的需求你們評估要來檢討那現在一般的廣大消費者也有這樣的一個問題啊我們可不可以並來檢討"},{"start":279.465,"end":304.297,"text":"跟委員說明一下第一個就是離尖峰的差別電價全世界都是不是台電自己做的第一點第二點我們的離尖峰的方案有不同的方案那你如果是充電裝業者那你可以來選擇台電提供的方案比照公車業者這當然沒有問題是啊大部分都是這樣子啊所以我目前就提出來部長現在我問你提出來你要不要解決嗎"},{"start":305.416,"end":321.179,"text":"欸不是啊 就是我們已經提了方案給公車業者選啦它有兩段式 有三段式大部分都兩段式啊 就剛剛講的3到9 4到10沒有沒有 現在有三段式可以選那三段式也是有最便宜的跟貴的嘛對不對"},{"start":322.352,"end":331.197,"text":"本來就有便宜跟貴的 便宜的時間很長啊沒關係啊 如果說你們台電不認為這個電動車的推廣電動車主遇到的一些實際上的問題不是國家政策的話你把這個事情丟到那個店家上面講部長不講話我也沒意見啦這個不通啦部長沒意見我也沒意見啦反正你們就是口頭上說要推動電動車然後反正電動車主提出的問題你們就說這個業者的事還是消費者的事不關我的事"},{"start":348.308,"end":353.894,"text":"另外一個小問題就是它在離間封另外一個小問題啦另外一個小問題啦也是這個消費者使用的一個問題啦一般來說我們平常上班就出去嘛那連假也是大家出去了高峰期但是我們的時間電價在過去喔"},{"start":365.866,"end":386.145,"text":"因為也沒有牽扯到一般的電動車消費者的問題我們大概以今年為例4月3號到4月6號是國定假日但是我們這個是行政院公告的這個國定假日4月3號到6號但是我們台電的這個尖離風的這個表大概只有4月4號跟4月5號因為4月3號跟4月6號是國定假日"},{"start":387.947,"end":411.54,"text":"我講過是補價但是我們台電就把補價當作一般日在算這個建立方的電價這沒錯嘛對不對我們確實是依照著國定假日在做安排的這也是依照政府的規劃但你們跟行政院上面的紅字是不一樣的對不對沒錯吧今年的4月3號跟4月6號你們是用一般日在算啊"},{"start":413.192,"end":416.803,"text":"我這樣子說 我們本來就是有一個規則在你現在是建議說彈性休假"},{"start":419.331,"end":425.713,"text":"應該把它放到離風去要不要一體下去離風我尊重你們但是我提出來就是電動車主的需求我離風就是我連駕的時候我會出去嘛但是我要出去的時候這一點導致我們可以來評估因為講簡單一點就是彈線休假以後它就容易變離風那我們就來我們就讓它在實質離風這件事情做反應"},{"start":443.798,"end":463.092,"text":"好 那謝謝董事長 願意在這點上面做談論我現在今天提出來就是我是一個電動車主那我在實際上我知道很多電動車主都會遇到的一些問題那既然電動車是國家持續推廣的方向那我也希望台電是提供能源的一個角度那也可以多傾聽電動車主的意見來做政策上面電價的一些調整好 那就麻煩部長 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:30.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:32.801000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩邀請部長跟台電董事長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:32.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:34.106000+08:00","text":"我們請部長跟曾董事長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:34.106000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:39.624000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:39.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:42:45.765000+08:00","text":"兩位好，先確認一下，電動車還是我們國家發展的國家政策方向，對不對？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:42:46.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:43:11.934000+08:00","text":"那發展了之外，就是要有很多其他的配套，其中一個就是電力，是不是可以先請董事長跟部長說明一下，電動車的充電，其實也是有時間電價的差別，也就是說，外面的那種快充站，如果有申請時間電價的話，離峰跟尖峰分別大概是多少錢？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:43:13.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:43:23.300000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，離峰跟尖峰的價格，一個是八塊多，一個是兩塊多。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:43:23.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:43:25.561000+08:00","text":"對，應該是3塊跟12塊。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:43:25.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:43:27.002000+08:00","text":"如果你是業者的話，你大概會怎麼定價？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:43:34.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:43:35.394000+08:00","text":"你是說充電的業者？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:43:35.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:43:39.535000+08:00","text":"對，假設你是業者的話，要賣電給電動車主，大概會怎麼定價？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:43:39.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:43:50.697000+08:00","text":"我這樣講，當然是量出為入，就是很簡單，我付了多少電費，加上攤提，來收取可能的合理費用啊。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:43:51.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:44:02.344000+08:00","text":"沒有，既然我們有時間電價，業者會做的是，如果現在這個時間電價是3塊錢，那我就由3塊錢往上加，如果現在的時間電價是12塊的話，那我就是從12塊往上加，那我們是消費者的話，就算比較笨，也會選3塊那個時候嘛，對不對？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:44:02.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:44:14.385000+08:00","text":"當然，這個就是時間電價的意義。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:44:14.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:44:42.717000+08:00","text":"原則上我們會這樣子，也就是說，我們在非夏季的時候，其實這個問題應該有委員談論過，公車業者也面臨一樣的問題，我現在講的就是普通的消費者，在非夏季的時候，尖峰时間是下午3到9點，夏季的話，是下午4到10點，也就是說，在尖峰時間這一段，因為時間電價非常高，車主會避開這段時間去充電，這是合理的消費行為。","quality":0.734},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:44:42.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:45:10.606000+08:00","text":"也就是說，扣掉上班時間，一般上班族在上班時間也不太會去充電，導致他下班之後要去充電，在非夏季要等到9點之後，在夏季要等到10點之後，才能夠有比較便宜的電價去充電，那會造成許多車主在充電時間的調配上面非常不方便，我不確定台電或者是經濟部龔部長有沒有接收過電動車車主這樣的訊息。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:45:16.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:45:22.954000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為夜尖峰時間本來就是電力比較需要的時候，那時候電價本來就會比較貴一點。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:45:23.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:45:25.315000+08:00","text":"當然，我理解你們為什麼會這樣子，跟其他一樣，有尖離峰嘛。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:45:25.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:45:56.436000+08:00","text":"但是今天如果我們是開油車，24小時隨時去加油都是一樣的錢，我剛剛就先問部長，我們國家在推動電動車的時候，要幫電動車的車主去排除他們一些使用上面的障礙，包括充電時間的不方便，他們需要等到晚上9點之後、10點之後，才有比較便宜的電價可以使用，這件事情很明顯就是大家去買電動車的抗力跟阻力嘛。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:45:56.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:46:06.843000+08:00","text":"我們現在也支持廣設電動樁，你停車的地方就有電動樁，然後你停了，去上班的時候也有電動樁……","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:46:06.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:46:13.909000+08:00","text":"我現在提出這個問題，是想確認，這個問題今天我提出來，你們要不要正視？是，是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:46:14.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:46:18.234000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為如果大家全部都擠在下班以後來充電，那再怎麼樣，電力上的供應……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:46:18.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:46:59.122000+08:00","text":"台電的電力問題我們知道，所以時間電價行之已久，但是以前大部分受到影響的大概都是工廠，但他們可以自己調配上下班的時間，但是一般的電動車主不是，之前我不確定是部長還是曾董事長有針對公車業者，之前有委員在這邊提出來公車業者也有這樣的需求，你們評估要來檢討，那現在一般的廣大消費者也有這樣的問題，可不可以併入一併來檢討？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:03.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:10.728000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，第一個就是離尖峰的差別電價全世界都是，不是台電自己做的，這是第一點。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:10.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:23.655000+08:00","text":"第二點，我們的離尖峰有不同的方案，如果是充電樁業者，可以選擇台電提供的方案，比照公車業者，這當然沒有問題。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:23.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:26.456000+08:00","text":"是啊，大部分都是這樣子，所以我們目前就提出來。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:26.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:28.297000+08:00","text":"部長，現在我問題提出來，你要不要解決嘛？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:29.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:29.637000+08:00","text":"不是啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:29.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:34.784000+08:00","text":"就是我們已經提了方案給公車業者選，有兩段式，有三段式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:35.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:37.668000+08:00","text":"大部分都是兩段式，就是剛剛講的3到9、4到10。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:37.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:41.173000+08:00","text":"沒有，沒有，沒有，現在有三段式可以選。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:41.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:45.179000+08:00","text":"那三段式也是有最便宜的跟貴的嘛，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:46.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:48.693000+08:00","text":"本來就有便宜跟貴的，便宜的時間很長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:48.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:48.733000+08:00","text":"沒關係啦。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:48.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:51.435000+08:00","text":"如果你們台電不認為電動車的推廣和解決電動車主遇到的一些實際上的問題，不是國家政策的話，部長不講話，我也沒意見啦。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:51.435000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:52.435000+08:00","text":"你這樣講，你把這件事情放在電價上面講，這個不通啦。","quality":0.227},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:52.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:52.376000+08:00","text":"部長沒意見，我也沒意見啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:52.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:47:55.177000+08:00","text":"反正你們就是口頭上說要推動電動車，電動車主提出問題，你們就說這是業者的事，或是是消費者的事，不關我的事。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:47:55.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:48:12.308000+08:00","text":"電動車的一個功能其實不是剛才講的離峰、尖峰的問題，而是充電設備……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:48:12.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:03.233000+08:00","text":"另外一個小問題比較容易解決，也是消費者使用的問題，一般來說，我們平常上班就出去，那連假也是大家出去的高峰期，但是我們的時間電價，這其實也沒有牽扯到一般電動車消費者的問題，以今年為例，4月3日到4月6日是國定假日，這個是行政院公告的國定假日，但是台電的尖離峰表只有列出4月4日跟4月5日，因為4月3日跟4月6日是補假，台電就把補假當作一般日計算尖離峰電價，這沒錯嘛，對不對？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:03.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:07.735000+08:00","text":"我們確實是依照國定假日在做安排，這也是依照政府規劃……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:07.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:11.958000+08:00","text":"但你們跟行政院行事曆上面的紅字是不一樣的，對不對？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:11.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:12.198000+08:00","text":"沒錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:13.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:15.520000+08:00","text":"今年的4月3日跟4月6日，你們是用一般日在算啊。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:17.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:23.911000+08:00","text":"不是，委員，我這樣子說，我們本來就是有一個規則在，你現在是建議說彈性休假應該放到離峰去，是這個意思嘛？","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:23.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:27.352000+08:00","text":"要不要一體列為離峰，這個我尊重你們，但是我提出來就是電動車主的需求，就是連假的時候我會出去，但是我要出去的時候……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:27.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:49:29.693000+08:00","text":"這一點倒是我們可以來評估，因為講簡單一點，就是彈性休假以後，就容易變離峰，那我們就讓它在實質離峰這件事情做反映。對。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:49:48.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:50:06.691000+08:00","text":"謝謝董事長願意在這一點上面採納，我今天提出來，就是我是一個電動車主，在實際上，我知道很多電動車主都會遇到的一些問題，既然電動車是國家持續推廣的方向，那我也希望台電站在提供能源的角度，可以多傾聽電動車主的意見，來做政策上面電價的一些調整，好不好？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T12:50:06.691000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:50:07.691000+08:00","text":"台電公司說要評估了，來評估。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-05-20T12:50:06.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T12:50:07.092000+08:00","text":"那就麻煩部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:50:07.592000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:50:11.877714+08:00","text":"謝謝廖先翔委員，謝謝部長跟董事長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:50:12.177714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:50:15.892000+08:00","text":"洪孟楷、洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:50:16.192000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:50:23.049143+08:00","text":"登記發言委員除了不在場外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T12:50:23.349143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T12:50:32.206286+08:00","text":"委員羅智強、洪毓祥、張嘉郡、邱志偉、賴瑞隆所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[]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