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疑不過如果裡面有這樣的一個想法我要請國防部就這個做法它的缺失或這個做法是否可行國防部應該來做說明"},{"start":380.396,"end":398.594,"text":"委員的意思應該是說是專就無人載具特別是無人機的部分是不是這不是我的意思這是國民黨在野黨他們今天稍早提出來說提出無人載具的特別條例就是在補這一次三千多億的那一塊"},{"start":399.275,"end":419.763,"text":"那這三件東西如果不是由國防部主導的話那當然就是他一定會喪失一些他的規格等等的可能就不是國防部所要的但是從此他又能夠培養無能載具我們的生產能力那怎麼樣把這些生產能力化為居民共用這就是另外一個挑戰但是我就說我們現在能夠思考的所有方案裡面"},{"start":420.583,"end":448.548,"text":"想要請部長來簡單回應一下他們的這個說法如果可行那怎麼做如果不可行我們要怎麼呼籲他們來調整畢竟如果是做軍用的話那他就是涉及到說這個主管的我想我們直接講條例的話就涉及到主管機關那如果說是軍用的裝備的話那當然回到我們軍用來做的話就會涉及到主管機關是國防部的"},{"start":448.968,"end":477.179,"text":"那應該是如果設置成類似經濟部這種統籌型計畫那要淋漓一個特別條例那能不能涵蓋這個軍用的裝備的部分由經濟部來主導我覺得這個可能有一些法律上面要思考的一些問題那所以我想剛剛已經院長已經說了我們也許各種方案我們都可以來檢討但是如果是純粹是國防部要用的這個軍用裝備的部分的話"},{"start":477.859,"end":480.147,"text":"那特別是屬於這個"},{"start":481.753,"end":509.765,"text":"要特別條例的話那一定要考量到這個主管機關的問題這樣子如果主要是做軍用的話那部長有沒有可能分流處理就比方說在無人載具的時候在軍民共同的時候當然這些彈藥管制條例裡面所有的籌載或者是這些殺傷之類的武器當然是不能夠由民間去做的但是在無人載具本身它在軍民通用的這個部分是不是經濟部就有機會有角色"},{"start":511.509,"end":537.154,"text":"那也就是說委員的意思就是說像我們這一次當然就是說火弓箭的部分是由我們軍備局因為按照強暴盜竊管這不可能有民間嘛所以我們在軍備局委制之後他要公開招標的時候他也是按政府採購法那他公開採購的時候是採購沒有火弓箭的部分那最後再由火弓箭的部分再由軍備局來做那這兩個是不是我意思說這樣子有沒有辦法某種程度補充一些量能"},{"start":539.227,"end":559.364,"text":"補充我們這次缺失的這3000多億用途跟需求是不大一樣的東西今天部長稍早也有提出一個是需求一個是供給一個是提出需求一個是提出供給那我們現在到底要怎麼樣做才可以把我們3000多億這個本來不被包括的能夠把它包括進去就是我們一直要思考的方案"},{"start":559.924,"end":574.274,"text":"所以我們除了這個譴責這個把我們無人載具整個閹割掉的這個軍口條例之外我們現在要思考的是補救的方案怎麼樣才可以在現行方案之下能夠往前走所以我才請教部長這個有沒有這樣分流的規劃"},{"start":576.104,"end":591.738,"text":"我會請國防部為主啦那麼他來提出未來的需求那因為經濟部現在我們也有一個無人機產業的統籌型計畫無人機產業發展的統籌型計畫那我相信那個都是比較商用的為主的那如果要進到"},{"start":594.04,"end":619.475,"text":"軍規 軍用的部分那應該是國防部為主但是兩邊這個界面能不能化開以及之後會不會有什麼影響我們還是值得來研討那如果有一個方向出現行不可行 可不可行的問題結論出現我會委請我們在大院裡面的朝野黨團來就未來該尋哪一條路徑來完成這個最後這塊拼圖我們來做更多的討論跟協商"},{"start":621.087,"end":645.167,"text":"院長今天稍早國防部來跟我們解釋預算的被凍減三的部分的時候有一些這一些案項是國防部向經濟部來去申請的研發案那是不是有被提案凍結那我的意思就是說經濟部的能量是可以被國防部所用的我們如果我請部長說明一下"},{"start":647.253,"end":674.743,"text":"因為經濟部還是在企業界甚至於有一些法人界我們提供它更大的製造能量或研發能量出來但是需求方的部分恐怕還是要國防部因為它如果是軍用的需求的話規格還是要他們開採購的金額可能也要編在他們那邊才有辦法要不然變成是我們採購給他們用這好像怪怪的"},{"start":675.549,"end":700.643,"text":"所以可能還是要有,當然我也同意經濟部可以扮演更多的角色,我是樂觀起承也非常同意好,謝謝部長老實說,我講這句話我並不認同說一定要有經濟部主導甚至我認為這本來就應該是有公安部主導,因為我們是要用來軍用的目標但是在已經沒有其他選擇的狀況之下,我才說請大家想方案"},{"start":701.303,"end":727.523,"text":"因為我們很遺憾的沒有多數那沒有多數的狀況之下在有人釋出相對的可能性的時候我們怎麼樣去把它做整合這才是我的問題因為我們現在要的是補救方案那當然如果可以的話我認為在一般預算裡面用計劃性的預算跨年度的預算其實我們公安部有蠻多這樣子的做法的是有機會再去往前推的"},{"start":728.803,"end":747.394,"text":"我想今年台灣的經濟成長率也在擴充我相信稅務也會擴充因為稅務擴充之後在一般的預算裡面也有機會來去擴充來去彌補我們這次3000多億左右的無人載具以及一些AI指管這個部分"},{"start":749.076,"end":766.527,"text":"其實就拿我們民雄航太園區來講民雄航太園區它現在有中科院來去做主導當然是非常好的軍規軍動這些大型的無人機等等的運動可是它的西部的地方就真的是需要經濟部財政部還有科技部以及外交部來去招商引資"},{"start":767.347,"end":786.077,"text":"那這一些馬上可以均民兩用的這些產品如果再透過好的平台甚至像DIUDIO類型的這個平台就能夠快速為軍方所用那所以這就是我前幾週我特別在跟部長講break one"},{"start":786.997,"end":809.73,"text":"這個BRAVE ONE這個平台就等於是更加創新的一個平台把產業界、民間、學界、創投方全部都還有直接在第一線的戰鬥方就是由烏克蘭士兵直接提出需求在他們的網站上面那這個網站或者說這個平台的支援方就是經濟部、科技部還有他們的國防部"},{"start":810.35,"end":837.553,"text":"以及他們的陸軍直接在上面士兵提出需求馬上進行所有的這些參與方科技工程師看到提出他們的解方解方一經驗證馬上大量生產大量擴產那他們這些工程師不是軍方的人員他們也不是一開始也沒有拿國防部的錢但是他們就可以快速的應用來快速的投產他們有什麼一個網站就一個網站你是什麼樣你是技術提供者"},{"start":837.993,"end":851.22,"text":"你是創投提供者你想要投資還是你想要生產每個人都可以在那個平台裡面我今天講這一個概念這其實就是DIU最早的概念就是讓每一個能有機會參與的"},{"start":853.061,"end":881.812,"text":"小企業小創投都能夠參與我為什麼講這個因為4800億或者是說現在140多億美金的軍售他假設在最最最最最最最糟糕的狀況之下如果被暫緩因為傳習會之後或者是等等的可能性出現的時候我們該怎麼辦其實剛才他們都在講在野黨都在說你們的軍購很多東西都還沒有到啊都還在延宕啊"},{"start":882.844,"end":911.154,"text":"那所以怎麼辦所以就是要有自己國家的產能啊那所以要怎麼辦所以你們要自己生產自己研發啊所以如果當我們對外軍售遇到外交上的阻難的時候我們該怎麼辦增加我們的產線增加我們的這個彈藥的這個擴充擴充我們這些彈藥的能力啊但是這一次全部都被阻斷掉了那怎麼辦商購跟委資就必須要具備所以我們的論述也是很清楚每次都說你這個又嚴大所以為什麼我們要跟美國軍購"},{"start":912.834,"end":939.16,"text":"如果你們真的這樣覺得的話那就是要把商購跟委制把它完備嘛那不論如何這個部分我還是請院長能夠去思考一下各種可能的方案接下來的下半年我相信我們外交的這個挑戰會更援軍那請院長來好好協調看看有沒有辦法在現有的框架不管是一般預算還是用各個部會的能量把它具備我們無人載具的能力好 謝謝委員的提醒跟指教 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:27:17.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:27:17.509000+08:00","text":"你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:27:17.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:27:34.854000+08:00","text":"我們請院長、國防部長、經濟部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:27:34.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:27:51.654000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長、國防部長、經濟部長備詢。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:27:51.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:27:51.814000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:27:55.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:27:55.417000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:27:57.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:28:18.916000+08:00","text":"這一次的國防特別條例，因為經過很多次的朝野協商，也看到國民黨、在野黨內部有一些不同的聲音，經過努力協商之後，很遺憾商購跟委製的部分還是沒有被納入這一次的特別條例裡面。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:28:20.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:28:31.068000+08:00","text":"不管如何，這7,800億的軍購，我想要請教一下，商購跟委製被排除後，行政院後續的補救方式是要怎麼做？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:28:32.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:28:46.267000+08:00","text":"今天總統有特別提到可能有包含再提特別條例，或者是增加追加預算，或者是在擴大一般預算裡面去挑戰，調整國防預算。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:28:48.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:28:53.713000+08:00","text":"我想請教院長一下，這些做法我們要怎麼樣把它推進？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:28:54.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:29:04.331000+08:00","text":"如果在野黨一開始就不支持我們把這些商購、委製放進去，那我們這一次如果提出特別條例的話，會有什麼不同？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:29:05.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:29:06.165000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:29:06.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:29:24.514000+08:00","text":"我也知道委員在這一次的各種審查會議當中，確實是從各方的角度為國防的特別預算跟特別條例做了很多的努力，我要代表行政院特別地感謝，我想這個是國家所需要的。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:29:25.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:29:53.813000+08:00","text":"我們如何來因應後續的發展，首先應該是讓國會多數的在野黨委員知道，目前這樣的狀況將會影響到國內本土軍工相關的廠商，它的產線要做一個先期的準備，也會影響到我們跟國際合作的機會，甚而會影響到國內在民主供應鏈上無人機產業的產業鏈形成，這個影響是非常大的。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:29:54.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:30:22.781000+08:00","text":"這樣發展下來的話，我們失去了國際的信任，也失去了自我軍工產業發展的機會，甚至於我們在整個國防的防衛上面，不論是在全域偵知、指管決策或者是高效打擊各方面，乃至於防衛韌性等都有不足，所以這四塊都有不足，最重要的，我們也失去了本土產業自主發展的這個拼圖。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:30:22.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:30:44.178000+08:00","text":"所以未來我們到底要用另外一個特別條例加特別預算來應處，或者是我們用各種形式的追加預算，以及部分能否納入年度公務預算當中，我們正跟國防部就以後每一年如何推敲、如何形成做嚴密的討論。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:30:44.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:30:51.905000+08:00","text":"我們希望就內容、程序和時效而言，能夠有效而且能夠應付未來每一年的需求。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:30:52.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:31:03.950000+08:00","text":"我們採取一個最有利的方式，之後再請大院朝野各黨團的委員能夠看到剛剛所說的目前幾個缺失，從時效上、內容上來彌補。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:31:03.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:31:11.051000+08:00","text":"院長，有幾個方案我們來思考一下，因為現在已經成既定事實，委製、商購沒有在這一次的特別條例裡面。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:31:11.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:31:34.362000+08:00","text":"同時軍購我們最新得到的消息是，至少在美國總統接受專訪的時候，他有提到這一百四十多億美金有可能過，也有可能不過，所以這是操之在別人身上的，而操之在我們身上的就是我們自己能不能夠用其他方案來推動國人自製無人載具的能力。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:31:35.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:31:43.608000+08:00","text":"首先，在野黨今天稍早有提到，有沒有可能以經濟部主導無人載具特別條例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:31:44.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:31:58.839000+08:00","text":"他們說以經濟部作為主導，但是不代表國防部、國科會不能夠在裡面擔任重要的角色，也就是說在在野已經是多數的狀況之下，我們的方案是什麼？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:31:58.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:32:10.889000+08:00","text":"我們當然可以提出特別條例（依國防部主導的方案），也可以用追加預算（由國防部來提出追加預算），但是除了這兩個方案之外，有沒有其他方案能夠思考？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:32:11.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:32:13.811000+08:00","text":"我為什麼要再提出其他方案的思考模式？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:32:13.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:32:25.198000+08:00","text":"是因為假設三個禮拜前，他們把商購跟委製全部排除掉，三個禮拜後，為什麼他們會重新接受國防部支持的追加預算或者是特別條例？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:32:25.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:32:30.482000+08:00","text":"所以我們必須要思考在他們內部怎麼樣創造可能性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:32:32.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:32:38.607000+08:00","text":"現在我們很清楚國民黨內部大概有幾個不同的聲音，一個是比較務實的聲音，一個基本上就是跟中共唱和的聲音。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:32:39.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:32:44.430000+08:00","text":"我們要增加最多的夥伴，讓敵人減少到最少，才可以專注我們現在面臨的挑戰。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:32:45.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:32:58.460000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分我今天稍早在質詢經濟部的時候有請問部長，部長是說要看院長這邊有沒有新的想法，他們會做相應的配合。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:32:59.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:33:02.243000+08:00","text":"這個部分是不是請部長簡單先回應一下，然後再請院長說明？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:33:03.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:33:04.805000+08:00","text":"我先說一下，再請部長來說。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:33:04.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:33:25.214000+08:00","text":"因為這個是介面的問題，現在的7,800億是國防部在主導，我們剛剛所說未來的指管決策就是大腦，如果有了一些武器裝備，但大腦不是由國防部來主導，卻由經濟部來主導這個大腦，這個大腦跟手腳能不能配合得上，我倒是懷疑。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:33:25.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:33:35.056000+08:00","text":"不過，如果院裡面有這樣的想法，我想請國防部就這個做法的缺失或這個做法是否可行來說明。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:33:37.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:33:44.603000+08:00","text":"委員的意思應該是專就無人載具，特別是無人機的部分，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:33:45.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:33:55.594000+08:00","text":"這不是我的意思，這是國民黨、在野黨他們今天稍早提出無人載具的特別條例，就是在補這一次三千多億的那一塊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:33:56.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:34:13.401000+08:00","text":"這三千多億如果不是由國防部主導的話，當然一定會喪失一些它的規格等等，可能就不是國防部所要的，但是同時又能夠培養我們的無人載具生產能力，那怎麼樣把這些生產能力化為軍民共用，這就是另外一個挑戰。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:34:13.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:34:23.084000+08:00","text":"但是我說我們現在能夠思考的所有方案裡面，想要請部長來簡單回應一下，他們的這個說法如果可行，那怎麼做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:34:23.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:34:26.425000+08:00","text":"如果不可行，我們要怎麼呼籲他們來調整？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:34:27.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:34:45.328000+08:00","text":"因為畢竟如果是做軍用的話，它就涉及主管的……我們直接講條例的話，就涉及主管機關，如果是軍用裝備，當然回到我們軍用來做的話，就會涉及主管機關是國防部。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:34:47.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:35:02.274000+08:00","text":"如果是類似經濟部這種統籌型計畫，要另立一個特別條例，能不能涵蓋軍用裝備的部分，由經濟部來主導，我覺得這可能有一些法律上面要思考的問題。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:35:02.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:35:26.276000+08:00","text":"所以我想，剛剛院長已經說了，也許各種方案我們都可以來檢討，但如果純粹是國防部要用的軍用裝備的部分，特別是要制定特別條例的話，一定要考量主管機關的問題，如果主要是做軍用的話。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:35:26.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:35:27.757000+08:00","text":"部長，有沒有可能分流處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:35:28.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:35:46.745000+08:00","text":"比方說無人載具在軍民共通的部分，根據槍砲彈藥刀械管制條例，所有的酬載或者是殺傷性的武器當然不能由民間去做，但是無人載具本身在軍民通用的部分，是不是經濟部就有機會有角色？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:35:49.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:08.233000+08:00","text":"委員的意思就是說，像我們這一次，當然火弓箭的部分是由我們軍備局，因為按照槍砲彈藥刀械管制條例，這不可能由民間嘛，所以軍備局委製之後，他要採公開招標的時候，也是按政府採購法，公開採購的時候是採購沒有火弓箭的部分，火弓箭的部分最後再由軍備局來做。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:09.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:10.313000+08:00","text":"這兩個是不是能夠……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:11.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:14.134000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，這樣子有沒有辦法某種程度補充一些量能？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:16.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:18.069000+08:00","text":"補充我們這次缺失的這三千多億？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:18.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:21.431000+08:00","text":"用途跟需求是不大一樣的東西。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:21.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:35.043000+08:00","text":"今天部長稍早也有提出來，一個是提出需求，一個是提出供給，我們現在到底要怎麼樣做，才可以把我們不被包括的這三千多億的部分包括進去？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:35.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:36.344000+08:00","text":"這就是我們一直在思考的方案。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:37.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:48.272000+08:00","text":"就是我們除了譴責把無人載具整個閹割掉的軍購條例之外，我們現在要思考的是補救的方案，怎麼樣才可以在現行方案之下往前走？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:48.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:36:51.274000+08:00","text":"所以我才請教部長有沒有這樣分流的規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:36:53.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:37:04.514000+08:00","text":"我會請國防部為主，由他們來提出未來的需求，因為經濟部現在也有一個無人機產業發展的統籌型計畫……","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:37:04.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:37:05.514000+08:00","text":"四、五百億的那個？","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T15:37:05.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:37:06.514000+08:00","text":"對，四百多億。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:37:04.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:37:36.455000+08:00","text":"我相信那都是比較以商用為主的，如果要進到軍規、軍用的部分，那應該是以國防部為主，但是兩邊的介面能不能劃開，以及之後會不會有什麼影響，還是值得來研討；如果有一個方向出現，也就是如果有一個可不可行的結論出現，我會委請大院的朝野黨團就未來該循哪一條路徑完成最後這塊拼圖，我們來做更多的討論跟協商。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:37:38.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:38:01.326000+08:00","text":"院長，今天稍早國防部來跟我們解釋預算被凍、減、刪的部分的時候，有一些國防部向經濟部申請的研發案有被提案凍結，所以我的意思是說，經濟部的能量是可以被國防部所用的，我們如果……","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:38:01.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:38:02.147000+08:00","text":"我請部長說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T15:38:04.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:38:40.934000+08:00","text":"因為經濟部還是在企業界的部分，甚至有一些法人界，我們提供他更大的製造能量或研發能量，但是需求方的部分，恐怕還是要國防部，如果是軍用的需求，規格還是要他們開，採購的金額可能也要編在他們那邊才有辦法，要不然變成是我們採購給他們用，這好像怪怪的，所以可能還是要由……當然我也同意經濟部可以扮演更多的角色，這個部分我是樂觀其成，也非常同意。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:38:41.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:38:44.155000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:38:44.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:38:57.623000+08:00","text":"老實說，雖然我講這些話，但我並不認同一定要由經濟部主導，甚至我認為這本來就應該是由國防部主導，因為我們是以軍用為目標，但是在已經沒有其他選擇的狀況之下，我才說要請大家想方案……","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T15:38:57.623000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:38:58.623000+08:00","text":"了解、了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:38:58.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:39:09.471000+08:00","text":"因為很遺憾地我們不是多數，在不是多數的狀況之下，當有人釋出相對的可能性的時候，我們怎麼樣去把它整合，這才是我提出的問題。是。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:39:09.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:39:24.503000+08:00","text":"因為我現在要的是補救方案，當然如果可以的話，我認為在一般預算裡面用計畫性的預算、跨年度的預算，其實我們國防部有滿多這樣的做法，是有機會再去往前推的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:39:26.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:39:44.374000+08:00","text":"今年臺灣的經濟成長率在上升，我相信歲入也會擴充，歲入擴充之後，在一般的預算裡面也有機會擴充，來彌補我們這次3,000億左右的無人載具以及一些AI指管的部分。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:39:46.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:40:03.527000+08:00","text":"就拿我們民雄航太園區來講，民雄航太園區現在有中科院來做主導，當然有非常好的軍規、軍用等大型無人機等等的運用，可是它西側的部分就真的需要經濟部、財政部、國科會及外交部去招商引資。是。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:40:04.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:40:17.594000+08:00","text":"這些馬上可以軍民兩用的產品，如果再透過好的平臺，甚至像DIU、DIO類型的平臺，就能夠快速為軍方所用。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:40:18.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:41:01.702000+08:00","text":"這就是我前幾週特別跟部長講的Brave1，Brave1平臺就等於是更加創新的平臺，把產業界、民間、學界、創投方，以及直接在第一線的戰鬥方，就是由烏克蘭士兵直接在他們的網站上面提出需求，這個網站或者這個平臺的支援方就是他們的經濟部、科技部、國防部及陸軍直接在上面，士兵提出需求就馬上進行，所有的這些參與方、科技工程師看到就提出他們的解方，解方一經驗證就馬上大量生產、大量擴產。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:41:02.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:41:09.068000+08:00","text":"這些工程師不是軍方的人員，他們一開始也沒有拿國防部的錢，但是他們就可以快速應用、快速投產。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:41:09.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:41:10.009000+08:00","text":"他們有什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:41:10.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:41:19.716000+08:00","text":"就一個網站，他是技術提供者、他是創投提供者，他想要投資還是想要生產，每個人都可以在那個平臺裡面。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:41:20.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:41:32.802000+08:00","text":"我今天講的這個概念其實就是DIO、DIU最早的的概念，就是讓每一個有機會參與的小企業、小創投都能夠參與。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:41:32.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:41:34.503000+08:00","text":"我為什麼講這個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:41:34.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:41:51.649000+08:00","text":"因為4,800億或者是現在一百四十多億美金的軍售，假設在最、最、最糟糕的狀況之下，如果被暫緩，因為川習會之後或者是等等的可能性出現的時候，我們該怎麼辦？","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:41:51.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:01.004000+08:00","text":"其實剛才在野黨都在說，你們的軍購很多東西都還沒有到、都還在延宕，怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:01.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:02.605000+08:00","text":"所以就是要有自己國家的產能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:04.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:04.766000+08:00","text":"怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:04.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:06.246000+08:00","text":"所以要自己生產、自己研發啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:07.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:11.968000+08:00","text":"當我們對外軍購遇到外交上的阻難時，我們該怎麼辦？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:11.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:17.030000+08:00","text":"增加我們的產線、增加我們的彈藥、擴充我們彈藥的能力啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:17.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:19.491000+08:00","text":"但是這一次全部都被阻斷掉了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:20.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:21.391000+08:00","text":"那怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:21.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:22.952000+08:00","text":"商購跟委製就必須要具備。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:23.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:28.154000+08:00","text":"我們的論述也是很清楚，每次都說這個又延宕，為什麼我們要跟美國軍購？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:29.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:33.395000+08:00","text":"如果你們真的這樣覺得的話，那就是要把商購跟委製完備嘛！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:34.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:39.476000+08:00","text":"不論如何，這個部分我還是請院長能夠去思考一下各種可能的方案。是，好。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:39.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:53.859000+08:00","text":"接下來的下半年，我相信我們外交的挑戰會更嚴峻，請院長好好協調，看看有沒有辦法在現有的框架下，不管是一般預算還是用各個部會的能量，都要具備我們無人載具的能力。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:55.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:42:56.160000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的提醒跟指教，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:42:56.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:43:03.802857+08:00","text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各相關閣員的備詢，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:43:04.102857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:43:08.960000+08:00","text":"接下來質詢委員質詢之後將會休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:43:09.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:43:12.117143+08:00","text":"現在請黃建賓委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}