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位重要的參議員國會的領袖也紛紛的表達應該要緊速的通過核准這140億的對台軍售"},{"start":210.925,"end":228.396,"text":"一直我們整個看起來美國對台有幾個原則第一個對台的政策並沒有改變第二個對中國並沒有提出任何的保證承諾第三個他們還是希望台灣海峽台海要整個維持安定跟穩定所以不希望有任何的武力強迫來改變這個現狀在這個前提底下"},{"start":231.818,"end":256.732,"text":"如何讓台灣有更足夠的自我防衛能力應該符合雙方的利益也符合國際上保持台海和平穩定的利益我想在這個共同的利益跟前提底下我們還是要極力爭取我們現在已經跟美方談好的下一批的這個發架書的內容甚至更多的未來雙方在軍事上面的合作所以院長跟部長這邊是有信心第二期的軍售是為武器完成"},{"start":257.432,"end":285.029,"text":"我們全力來爭取這個是我們具有國家國防的需要也考慮到我們國家財政的負擔能力是許可所以我們才有這樣的提出相關的特別條例跟特別預算謝謝院長的回覆院長這一次的美國美軍這個我對美的軍售條例總計是來到7800億元那當後續的武器購買出現問題的時候我們不能只是被動的等待我們必須要先弄清楚一點就是因為這個是軍售"},{"start":286.77,"end":309.025,"text":"所以這是軍售的特別條例跟一般國防預算編列的常態性預算是不同的那特別預算的法制化要有其必要性跟急迫性不然不可能每一樣我們都用特別預算的方式來通過那接下來我要請教院長第二個問題就是院長這一次對美國美軍條例編列的是7800億元假設美國不願意對台繼續軍售後續的經費我們該怎麼樣來使用"},{"start":317.182,"end":330.933,"text":"如果他沒有通過第二批的這個項目的話那依照這個特別條例的規定我們就沒有辦法來這裡做報告,預算就沒有"},{"start":332.419,"end":358.707,"text":"其實本席是強調這個是軍售條例就是為什麼因為所有的巡委都要用軍售的方式來處理就是從本席一開始就說的所以當美國他沒有辦法進行軍售的時候我們必須思考去跟其他的國家來洽談軍售但軍售涉及的是政府跟政府之間的作為如果當初條文這麼針對中國的時候要對要向其他的各國來進行軍售的洽談恐怕難以為繼"},{"start":360.492,"end":386.264,"text":"我們的假想敵我想也不能只是只有針對對岸而已國家跟國家之間爆發戰爭不一定他提早就可以鎖定是誰像我國之前跟菲律賓也因為海域的問題也有強烈的對峙這樣印象還很深刻甚至要引發戰爭的危機如果說我們的國防的設計概念都是以對岸作為假想敵來部署並不是以整體的防衛作戰"},{"start":387.865,"end":403.564,"text":"來思考的話那所購買的武器就並不一定可以派上用場所以接下來我要再請教院長 部長是那因為這一條是軍售談論經費後續沒有辦法使用有沒有打算改為商售或者是偽製的經費還是修飾不編列部長"},{"start":407.588,"end":435.507,"text":"跟委員報告如果您講的是指這個特別條例這個特別條例已經鎖定是軍售而且項目都已經也特定了能力的建構項目也都特定所以如果我想我們國防部一定會考量到各種的一個可能的狀況那所以我們也一再提出來國防自主的重要性所以剛剛陳冠廷委員也一再提到國防自主本來就是我們要"},{"start":436.327,"end":462.148,"text":"在國安法裡面特別律定所以我們本來就是要透過我們的這個委制當然委制主要當然我們中科院當然是一個重要的一個角色那我們中科院本身還可以跟其他的國家來進行合作那這樣子的我沒有辦法在這方面透露但是基本上可以透過中科院跟其他的國家來進行這些相關的共同研發也好 技術移轉也好"},{"start":462.728,"end":484.423,"text":"那這個是一個可能性那另外一個可能性當然就是商購那剛剛陳永康委員也在提到商購本來就是一個現在很重要的一個美國也好或者我們不只限於美國其他國家而且美國你可以去看他對外他一直在鼓勵用商售的方式來進行因為這樣可以快速的取得那所以如果真的沒有"},{"start":486.664,"end":507.712,"text":"我想我們還是審慎樂觀會有這個第二批的軍狗那我們也同時會去獲得一些商業對其他國家的接觸包括美國在那裡也有可能是直接來進行商購也有可能跟其他的國家那這個部分本來就在我們考量所以部長其實錢不是編碼還是會編碼對不對那就沒有辦法編在這個"},{"start":510.633,"end":532.612,"text":"對 我的意思是說之後還是會編碼跟委員報告 委員剛剛說第一條中共的威脅這個拿掉是保持彈性但是第五條把這個六加四項明寫在這裡就綁死了沒有任何的彈性這是一個立法上極大的矛盾造成未來可能不知道的一個困擾我們是假設啦因為我們想有時候如果真的發生我們要先準備好嘛"},{"start":533.112,"end":558.303,"text":"那我想要面對各種情況要做因應嘛那今天總統也提到說要透過最佳預算方式以及提高年度預算的方式來提升我們國防戰力那院長您之前也提到說要再編列4700億的軍國預算那我想這些東西都會遇到一個同樣的問題就是我們要充實我們的國防實力必須要留意的就是我們不能只依靠美國給我們支持嘛"},{"start":559.362,"end":582.778,"text":"而是要多多跟其他的國家去洽談軍售無論是軍售或是商貨的部分我們要增加這些武器購買的渠道才不會傻傻的等所以無人機就是一個國防自主一個很重要的項目那我們這次安排在特別條例裡面就是希望運用特別預算的這種預算的一個穩定性來建構我們的國防自主"},{"start":583.479,"end":598.857,"text":"因為無人機它有一個特色就是本協議是說我們不能只有仰賴美國這個國家無人機就是正好是我們發展國防自主突破的一個很好的一個"},{"start":600.918,"end":627.644,"text":"機會之創啊因為我們有相當好的半導體我們相當好的晶片我們有相當好的一些能夠建構通訊模組自主打房的這個能力的項目那如果再加上跟國外有一些合作我想我們無人機的產業跟油光不提出需求的時候就能夠建立我覺得這是一個很好的那在俄武戰爭甚至美伊衝突裡面都可以看到他扮演一個關鍵性的戰略那過去當然有一些"},{"start":629.324,"end":655.351,"text":"太昂貴的這種什麼飛彈系統啦那除了我們中科院可以自行研製之外民間是沒有辦法但無人機就完全是不一樣的部長其實我們在委員會的時候也聊過很多次了包括說整個我們的建構防空系統裡面我們是不是真的要依賴這麼昂貴的飛彈系統特別是因為我們其實也在想到我們所有的防衛系統都是靠陸上的這些雷達如果當它被吹掉的時候整個台灣制度會垮掉"},{"start":655.971,"end":680.669,"text":"所以這個我們會後我們在委員會的抽材區討論那本席想要再繼續請教的就是院長就是說我們剛剛為什麼提到會跟國家採購這件事情就是院長是日本告示早苗內閣在2026年4月的時候他正式通過修改他的防衛裝備遺傳三原則以及其實施方針他徹底的廢除對殺傷性武器的外銷限制"},{"start":681.169,"end":698.142,"text":"那這一項政策也轉變讓日本的企業得以將他的主戰坦克護衛艦戰鬥機等武器向他國來銷售那這一些武器對台灣來看是幫助很大請問我們有沒有可能會向日本提出軍購或商購的要求"},{"start":698.682,"end":712.938,"text":"跟委員報告,剛剛委員提到,我想防衛武器移轉三原則,它有兩個很大的含義,第一個當然就是要將日本的這個軍工產業再往前推一把,日本本來就有向浪技術,那它這是第一個,第二個,"},{"start":713.539,"end":739.508,"text":"日本在印太的區域的和平穩定透過這個防衛武器移轉三驗者他就會扮演一個非常重要的角色我們可以看到他對菲律賓跟澳大利亞都現在開始進行相關的合作要提供這些相關的護衛艦等等現在就是防衛移轉三驗者的規定裡面他們的規定裡面還是要跟他有一個移轉的協定這個移轉的協定限於17個國家"},{"start":741.129,"end":768.039,"text":"可是日本告訴轉某說台灣有事日本就有事啊 說也停然啊台日友好一直大家都是相信的嘛所以這個部分是不是也可以來嘗試有沒有考慮做這樣的嘗試我想我沒有辦法現在跟委員做過多的透露但是我覺得有一些我們台日之間共同為印太區域和平穩定確實可以互相來來花費貢獻一些力量"},{"start":768.379,"end":788.134,"text":"了解 謝謝部長部長 最後本席還是要說國防預算我們絕對支持我買好的買有用的買能夠到貨的那但是同時我們也要讓購買武器的渠道多元這是今天本席質詢的重點那台灣的國防設計也要更全面因為我們要面對是整個"},{"start":789.375,"end":816.653,"text":"太平洋的環境而不是只有針對對岸我想這個都有可能會發生的事情那如果單靠一個某一個國家的武器然後受限於人的機會就變大那最重要的是今天賴總統在談話的時候也提到說要向國軍弟兄姊妹表達最高的敬意最重要的就是要期盼現場能夠儘速的編列預算來讓我們軍人加薪我想唯有讓他們的付出"},{"start":817.293,"end":827.859,"text":"受到應有的回報他們也才能夠安心的保家衛國這也是我們唯一可以替他們做到的事情那這部分再請院長我們從來不會輕視到對國軍弟兄們的照顧跟福利"},{"start":832.381,"end":853.466,"text":"所以關於加薪的部分我們已經說過了我們是希望依照憲法的程序把行政立法兩院的權責分清楚權力分立的原則底下我們會做我們過去也做了蠻多的過去幾年我們從各項加薪光去年一年就147億加薪各種的加給在裡面未來也是如此那在此同時我也更希望除了對"},{"start":854.266,"end":865.28,"text":"他的福利照顧之外那麼從新式武器來補強國軍戰力對國軍弟兄更是多一層的安全的保障也是讓他們更有尊嚴的在戰場上守衛國家所必須的"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:43:21.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:43:24.614000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，有請卓院長及國防部部長。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:43:24.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:43:25.815000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長、國防部部長備詢。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:43:25.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:43:25.855000+08:00","text":"黃委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:43:37.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:43:37.356000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:43:39.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:44:10.056000+08:00","text":"院長，川習會引起國際間很大的關注，川習會之後，川普總統的一些言論也讓大家很擔憂，其中一部分就是川普總統在川習會之後公開表示對於百億臺美軍售可能會簽，也可能不會簽，甚至直言臺灣軍售是一張很好的談判籌碼，這代表臺灣能不能夠買到武器完全取決於美、中兩國交換了什麼樣的利益。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:44:11.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:44:20.222000+08:00","text":"當我們把最具有優勢的晶片送到美國、農產品也棄守之後，我們還剩下什麼可以跟商人性格的川普來交換？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:44:20.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:44:46.112000+08:00","text":"另外一個擔憂是，美方軍購常態性的延宕跟財務的無效性，我想美方對臺軍售延宕已經不是新聞，從F-16V的戰機、AGM-154C的滑翔炸彈到MK-48的魚雷全部都進度落後，甚至臺灣早就編列預算的2,121枚刺針飛彈到現在連發價書都還拿不到。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:44:47.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:45:07.460000+08:00","text":"原先我們要採購的裝備一件都進不來，國家安全早就已經出現嚴重的空窗，面臨當前急迫的臺海局勢，國防部要如何確保這筆龐大的公帑不會再度像肉包子打狗，變成一張看得到吃不到的空頭支票？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:45:09.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:45:46.696000+08:00","text":"本席支持軍購的立場從來沒有改變，先前我們也通過了中央政府新式戰機採購特別預算，以及中央政府海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算，分別編列了398.45億元以及293.2億元，當然還有2025年9月11日行政院院會通過的因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案編列的357億元，這些都是實際的例子，但總是有一些人想要為了政治來上色。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:45:47.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:45:55.222000+08:00","text":"當在野黨在這一次的軍購條例中刪除了「中共軍事威脅」這些字眼的時候，馬上就有立委上色說是怕中國。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:45:56.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:46:04.009000+08:00","text":"其實當條文失去了彈性的時候，反而讓中央政府綁手綁腳，我們現在就有可能會遇到這樣的狀況。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:46:05.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:46:19.861000+08:00","text":"這邊要請教院長的是，依據媒體的相關報導，美國對臺軍售很有可能沒有第二期，針對這樣的情況，我們的因應方式為何？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:46:22.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:46:31.122000+08:00","text":"其實在川普總統回到美國的前後，美國國會多位重要的參議員、國會領袖也紛紛表達，應該要儘速通過、核准這140億的對臺軍售。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:46:39.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:46:55.916000+08:00","text":"因此，我們整個看起來，美國對臺有幾個原則：第一個，對臺的政策並沒有改變；第二個，對中國並沒有提出任何的保證、承諾；第三個，他們還是希望臺灣海峽、臺海要維持安定跟穩定，所以不希望有任何的武力強迫來改變現狀。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:46:55.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:47:08.763000+08:00","text":"在這個前提底下，如何讓臺灣有更足夠的自我防衛能力，應該符合雙方的利益，也符合國際上保持臺海和平穩定的利益。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:47:09.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:47:20.930000+08:00","text":"我想在這個共同的利益跟前提底下，我們還是要極力爭取我們現在已經跟美方談好的下一批發價書的內容，甚至更多未來雙方在軍事上面的合作。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:47:21.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:47:24.712000+08:00","text":"所以院長跟部長有信心第二期的軍售會如期完成？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:47:25.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:47:36.279000+08:00","text":"我們全力來爭取，這個是我們基於國家國防的需要，也考慮到我們國家財政的負擔能力是許可的，所以才提出相關的特別條例跟特別預算。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:47:37.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:47:37.960000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長的回復。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:47:38.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:48:07.358000+08:00","text":"這一次對美的軍購特別條例總金額是來到7,800億元，當後續的武器購買出現問題的時候，我們不能只是被動地等待，我們必須要先弄清楚一點，因為這個是軍購特別條例，跟一般國防預算編列的常態性預算是不同的，特別預算的法制化要有其必要性跟急迫性，不可能每一樣都用特別預算的方式來通過。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:48:07.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:48:17.005000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請教院長的第二個問題是，這一次對美軍購特別條例編列的是7,800億元，假設美國不願意對臺繼續軍售，後續的經費我們該怎麼樣來使用？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:48:25.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:48:38.913000+08:00","text":"如果它沒有通過第二批的項目，依照特別條例的規定，我們就沒有辦法來這裡做報告，預算也就沒有了。是。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:48:40.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:48:42.520000+08:00","text":"院長，其實本席一直強調這個是軍購條例，為什麼？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:48:42.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:49:06.707000+08:00","text":"因為所有的行為都要用軍購的方式來處理，像本席一開始所說的，當美國沒有辦法進行軍售的時候，我們必須思考跟其他的國家來洽談軍購，但軍購涉及的是政府跟政府之間的作為，如果當初條文這麼針對中國，對於要向其他國家來進行軍購的洽談，恐怕難以為繼。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:49:08.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:49:26.781000+08:00","text":"我想我們的假想敵也不能只是針對對岸而已，國家跟國家之間爆發戰爭，不一定可以提早鎖定是誰，像我國之前跟菲律賓也因為海域的問題有強烈的對峙，甚至要引發戰爭危機，各位印象還很深刻嘛。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:49:26.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:49:39.850000+08:00","text":"如果我們國防的設計概念都是以對岸作為假想敵來部署，並不是以整體的防衛作戰來思考的話，所購買的武器就並不一定可以派上用場。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:49:39.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:49:51.183000+08:00","text":"所以接下來我要再請教院長、部長的是，因為這一條是軍購，倘若經費後續沒有辦法使用，有沒有打算改為商購或者是委製的經費，還是就不編列？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:49:55.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:50:15.501000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果您是指特別條例，這個特別條例已經鎖定是軍購，而且能力的建構項目也都特定了，所以我想國防部一定會考量到各種可能的狀況。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:50:16.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:50:34.075000+08:00","text":"我們一再提出國防自主的重要性，剛剛陳冠廷委員也一再提到，國防自主本來就是我們在國防法裡面特別律定的，所以我們本來就是要透過委製，委製當然我們中科院是重要的角色。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:50:34.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:50:51.889000+08:00","text":"我們中科院本身還可以跟其他的國家來進行合作，這方面我沒有辦法在這裡透露，但是基本上可以透過中科院跟其他國家來進行相關的共同研發也好、技術移轉也好，這是一個可能性。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:50:52.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:04.118000+08:00","text":"另外一個可能性當然就是商購，剛剛陳永康委員也一再提到，商購本來就是現在很重要的一個……美國也好或者不只限於美國的其他國家。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:04.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:23.428000+08:00","text":"而且你可以去看美國，對外他一直鼓勵用商售的方式來進行，因為這樣可以快速的取得，所以如果真的沒有……我想我們還是審慎樂觀會有第二批的軍購，同時也會去獲得一些商業……","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:23.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:25.408000+08:00","text":"對其他國家的接觸？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:25.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:33.451000+08:00","text":"包括美國在內，也有可能是直接來進行商購，也有可能跟其他的國家，這個部分本來就在我們考量的範圍之內。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:33.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:34.952000+08:00","text":"部長，所以其實錢不是不編，還是會編嘛，對不對？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:35.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:35.712000+08:00","text":"但就沒有辦法編在這個……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:38.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:39.154000+08:00","text":"對，我的意思是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:40.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:51:56.488000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，委員剛剛說第一條把中共的威脅這個文字拿掉是保持彈性，但是第五條把五加四項明寫在這裡就綁死了，沒有任何的彈性，這是一個立法上極大的矛盾，造成未來可能未知的困擾。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:51:56.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:52:03.413000+08:00","text":"院長，我們是假設啦，因為有時候如果真的發生，我們要先準備好，面對各種情況要做因應。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:52:04.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:52:15.738000+08:00","text":"像賴清德總統今天也提到，要透過追加預算的方式，以及提高年度預算的方式，來提升我們的國防戰力，院長之前也提到要再編列4,700億的軍購預算。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:52:16.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:52:36.969000+08:00","text":"我想這些東西都會遇到同樣的問題，即我們要充實我們的國防實力，必須要留意不能只倚靠美國給我們支持，而是要多多跟其他的國家洽談軍購，無論是軍購或是商購部分，我們要增加這些武器購買的渠道，才不會傻傻地等嘛！","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:52:37.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:52:53.481000+08:00","text":"所以無人機就是國防自主很重要的一個項目，我們這次安排在特別條例裡面，就是希望應用特別預算的穩定性來建構我們的國防自主，因為無人機有一個特色……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:52:54.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:52:58.647000+08:00","text":"部長，本席的意思是說我們不能只仰賴美國這個國家，我們都仰賴這口井，但如果這口井乾涸了，那我們不就沒戲唱了？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:52:59.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:53:29.082000+08:00","text":"無人機正好是我們發展國防自主突破的一個很好的機會之窗，因為我們有相當好的半導體、我們有相當好的晶片、我們有相當好的能夠建構通訊模組與自主導航能力的項目，如果再加上跟國外有一些合作，我想我們無人機的產業由國防部提出需求之後就能夠建立，我覺得這是一個很好的機會。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:53:29.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:53:44.946000+08:00","text":"在俄烏戰爭，甚至美伊衝突裡面，都可以看到它扮演關鍵性的戰力，當然過去有一些太昂貴的飛彈系統之類的，除了我們中科院可以自行研製之外，民間是沒有辦法啦！","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:53:44.946000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:53:45.946000+08:00","text":"其實國防問題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:53:45.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:53:48.267000+08:00","text":"但無人機就完全不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:53:48.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:53:56.509000+08:00","text":"對啊，部長，其實我們在委員會也聊過很多次，包括整個建構防空系統裡面，我們是不是真的要依賴這麼昂貴的飛彈系統？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:53:56.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:54:07.153000+08:00","text":"特別是我們其實也想到，我們所有的防衛系統都是靠陸上的這些雷達，當它被摧毀掉，整個臺灣之盾會垮掉，這個會後我們在委員會的時候再討論。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:54:07.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:54:14.699000+08:00","text":"本席想要再繼續請教，院長，我們剛剛為什麼提到跟其他國家採購這件事情？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:54:16.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:54:37.715000+08:00","text":"日本高市早苗內閣在2026年4月的時候，正式通過修改他的防衛裝備移轉三原則以及實施方針，澈底廢除對殺傷性武器的外銷限制，這一項政策轉變讓日本的企業得以將主戰坦克、護衛艦、戰鬥機等武器向他國銷售。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:54:38.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:54:46.122000+08:00","text":"這一些武器對臺灣來看是幫助很大，請問我們有沒有可能會向日本提出軍購或商購的要求？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:54:48.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:07.461000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員提到的防衛裝備移轉三原則有兩個很大的涵義：第一個，當然是要將日本的軍工產業再往前推一把，日本本來就相當有基礎，這是第一個；第二個，日本在印太區域的和平穩定，透過防衛裝備移轉三原則，他就會扮演一個非常重要的角色。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:07.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:16.404000+08:00","text":"我們可以看到他對菲律賓跟澳大利亞現在都開始進行相關的合作，要提供相關的護衛艦……","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:16.404000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:18.665000+08:00","text":"澳洲也跟日本採購最上級艦那個，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:18.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:27.488000+08:00","text":"現在防衛裝備移轉三原則的規定裡面，還是要跟他有一個移轉協定，這個移轉協定限於17個國家。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:29.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:33.411000+08:00","text":"可是日本高市早苗說臺灣有事，日本就有事，又說會挺我們。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:34.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:38.693000+08:00","text":"臺日友好，大家一直都是相信的嘛，所以這個部分是不是也可以嘗試？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:38.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:40.473000+08:00","text":"有沒有考慮做這樣的嘗試？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:40.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:56.019000+08:00","text":"我現在沒有辦法跟委員做過多的透露，但是我覺得臺日之間共同為了印太區域和平穩定，確實可以互相貢獻一些力量。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:56.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:55:57.480000+08:00","text":"了解，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:55:57.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:56:27.782000+08:00","text":"部長，最後本席還是要說，國防預算我絕對支持，我們買好的、買有用的、買能夠到貨的，但是同時，我們也要讓購買武器的渠道多元，這是今天本席質詢的重點，臺灣的國防設計也要更全面，因為我們要面對的是整個太平洋的環境，而不是只有針對對岸，我想這個都有可能會發生的事情，如果單靠某一個國家的武器，受限於人的機會就變大。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:56:28.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:56:42.211000+08:00","text":"最重要的是，今天賴總統在談話的時候也提到，要向國軍弟兄姐妹表達最高的敬意，最重要的就是期盼院長能夠儘速編列預算，讓我們的軍人加薪。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:56:42.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:56:55.118000+08:00","text":"我想唯有讓他們的付出受到應有的回報，他們也才能夠安心地保家衛國，這也是我們唯一可以替他們做到的事情，這部分再請院長多多支持。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:56:55.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:09.923000+08:00","text":"我們從來不會輕視對國軍弟兄們的照顧跟福利，所以關於加薪的部分，我們已經說過了，我們是希望依照憲法的程序，把行政、立法兩院的權責分清楚，權力分立的原則底下我們會做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:10.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:19.105000+08:00","text":"我們過去也做了蠻多的，過去幾年從各項加薪，光去年一整年就有147億的各種加給在裡面，未來也是如此。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:19.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:33.260000+08:00","text":"在此同時，我也更希望除了照顧他們的福利之外，從新式武器來補強國軍戰力，對國軍弟兄更是多一層安全的保障，也是讓他們更有尊嚴的在戰場上守衛國家所必需的。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:33.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:36.045714+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:36.345714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:41.774286+08:00","text":"院長、部長都辛苦了，本席的質詢到此結束，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:42.074286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:43.217143+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:43.517143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:49.802857+08:00","text":"謝謝黃建賓委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、國防部長備詢，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:50.102857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:54.674286+08:00","text":"我們休息之後，將會請王安祥委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:54.974286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:56.117143+08:00","text":"現在休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:56.417143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:57.560000+08:00","text":"休息（15時57分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:57.860000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:57:59.574286+08:00","text":"繼續開會（16時8分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:57:59.874286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:58:02.731429+08:00","text":"報告院會，我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T15:58:03.031429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T15:58:08.460000+08:00","text":"接下來請王安祥委員質詢，鍾佳濱委員請準備。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}