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阿你怎麼應應"},{"start":130.514,"end":140.119,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我想有一部分這個至於總統打過來的電話這個都要有國安的部門我等一下請國安會副處長來談但我要特別強調的在台美這個兩國的關係包括川普總統所談的話包括這個國安會長期的努力跟耕耘在美國在台協會也好或是在美國所有的國會政要"},{"start":159.069,"end":180.556,"text":"甚至在白宮國務院都有相當的一些溝通管道暢通無阻這一點請國人放心總統也表示尤其台灣這幾年因為全體國人包括整個國家大家的努力之下用經濟用和善來維持整個國家的競爭力"},{"start":181.976,"end":206.435,"text":"讓台灣更是在整個未來世界的經濟發展以及安全的樞紐上不可或缺的一個樞紐所以基本上不會有很多可能有心人的疑慮會認為台灣會被談判掉那我想這一點大家大可放心維持這樣因為川習會談判裡面這最終有透露三個訊息第一個對台政策不變"},{"start":207.236,"end":212.197,"text":"第二個維持台海兩的現狀第三個軍過只跟台灣談不用跟北京談我想這一點是這樣那至於他的打電話來的設置我們在國安單位有一些相關的擇品我請這個秘書長來跟大家做說明電腦派來當然那個吳釗燮秘書長適合來談但有一件事情潘秘書長一定可以談我如果來找你我會說秘書長不然你也很久沒去明天來我請你吃個土雞"},{"start":236.95,"end":240.836,"text":"那總統去說 他如果跟習近平見面 要請他喝珍珠奶茶就一件事 你總是可以建議嘛 你可以給他寫嘛川普總統你電話打來 還是要去台灣 有機會見面 你要請人吃什麼"},{"start":252.52,"end":275.196,"text":"這個一定可以啦 當然啦 國際禮儀 元首之間的對話有它的嚴謹性那該有的禮儀我也會做甚至我也想希望川普總統可不可以開擴音但是因為涉及到這個國家機密 這個細節還是請國安會來做處理啦那至於要喝珍珠奶茶或請他吃臭豆腐我都可以"},{"start":276.26,"end":278.963,"text":"那我接下來要請教吳釗燊秘書長潘秘書長就說川普這個熱線有打過的威其實民眾要解讀的倒也未必把它當成一個好像是比較比較輕鬆的話題其實我認為這個是非常嚴肅的尤其是"},{"start":296.221,"end":320.488,"text":"川普這樣丟出來突然殺出來這個變化球那其實如果我們國安團隊應付得好的話把他打成打出這個台灣跟重要的民主盟友之間更為緊密的關鍵的一個安打其實我覺得非常重要我不曉得吳秘書長你怎麼樣如何因應川普這樣的一個突然拋出來的變化球委員說得非常好"},{"start":323.709,"end":341.778,"text":"那我們跟美國之間的關係對我們來講非常的重要如果說這些溝通對話能夠不斷提高層級而且對於區域和平穩定能夠持續保持對話的話那這個對我們台灣來講很重要對於民主國家對印太TG來講都是非常的重要"},{"start":342.758,"end":362.524,"text":"我想委員也了解,我長期在外交單位工作,外交上面就是說還沒有處理好的還沒有完全可以對外公開的這個部分,我們必須要保持低調如果說有任何新的進展,我們再跟社會來公開如果說我們看一看我們跟美國之間的"},{"start":364.204,"end":380.518,"text":"都共同關切的這個議題就是台海要和平穩定那大家共同的立場就是要維持現狀那這個也是我們的現狀這個也是我們的政策我們不卑不亢維持現狀我們要跟有盟國家維持地區的和平與穩定"},{"start":381.539,"end":400.704,"text":"潘秘書長請回我要繼續來追問我們吳秘書長的就是說我們這一次國安會裡面增加的預算推動全社會防衛的一個韌性這個我相信在司法法治委員會大家會來做一個支持但是呢其實社會大眾也會期待就是說你們這個研究案研究出來了"},{"start":401.604,"end":424.902,"text":"就變成說 我們太多太多的一個報告出來以後有沒有可能啊 你把它 你們的研究報告啊動作一般民眾都看有的啦 純理版的啦 甚至於民眾版的不要說研究 我們花了幾千萬 做出來只是一種研究的一個報告然後變成說 你至少讓地方"},{"start":425.402,"end":428.043,"text":"民眾看得懂得說這個SOP到底是些什麼譬如說多多的演習演習的部分不是測試民間的力量怎麼樣去把它拉進來譬如說超商 物流 電信"},{"start":442.788,"end":458.322,"text":"這個關鍵時刻啊 其實都是台灣的韌性的一部分啊所以我期待 期待的是說 真正的韌性啊不是跟我們的簡報 做得漂亮應該是就是說 有事情的孫 遇到事情的孫 全社會啊 整個社會有沒有辦法撐得住我請那個秘書長簡單做回應"},{"start":460.574,"end":482.457,"text":"非常謝謝委員的這個垂詢的確全社會防衛任性我們在國安會已經討論了很多那不只是跟各部會之間的那個合作也跟地方政府合作也公司方面都有合作剛剛委員有提到好幾個事情都是我們目前在處理的那其中對於我們的台灣的一般的民眾的這個說明"},{"start":483.678,"end":500.328,"text":"最重要的一個機制就是小局書我們的小局書已經發放到全國的各家戶透過這個小局書就可以了解到說在危機來臨的時候大家如何來保護自己如何來協助別人"},{"start":500.868,"end":529.493,"text":"那另外那個全社會防衛任性方面我們也要確保有水的供應而且在危機的時候可以去哪裡取得水去哪裡取得食物那這一方面就是說我們跟一些那個全國的超商連鎖超商正在合作的一個議題那我們逐漸會透過全社會防衛委員會的這個對外的這個說明讓大家都了解到我們為台灣在未來危機的時候我們如何來保護我們自己的安全"},{"start":529.873,"end":534.175,"text":"所以這就是我必須跟你說的就是我上次我看到那個紀連城將軍他去下鄉然後呢那麼多的民眾來 喔他講得很白話甚至叫我們那種替代義的喔 我掛過去 唱歌 有沒有那種宣導喔這個意義我覺得才是重大啦不然你說我們國安會開這個三千萬"},{"start":551.364,"end":561.533,"text":"他做一個研究報告出來 讓你們這個國安團隊知道知道之後 你說既然是對於社會的一個防衛任性的話這個重點是要讓民眾知道啊這個才是重點 所以我期待啊 那要繼續啦好不好 主席再發一分鐘 秘書長請回我請國事館陳醫生館長 抱歉喔這你來啊 這要討預算的 我也要跟你頂領一下"},{"start":577.318,"end":586.221,"text":"就是說我要特別來提出來的就是說,我們台灣文獻館,那個三寶裡面,我剛才這個邏輯跟國安會一樣啦,我們不要只有你們學者看得到的,研究的人看得到的,就是說我們錢開下去之後,你現在數位化,大家看得見啦,但是呢,現在重點不是說有沒有數位化,"},{"start":598.445,"end":604.129,"text":"我們做這個政府開支,老百姓要讓他看有沒有,讓民眾有沒有辦法去更親近,所以我期待啦。就是說我們這個POC也都一樣,他要看我們比較白話沒有,你像譬如說你那個主題的一個策展啦,跟學校教育之間的做一個結合啦,他有的你翻譯出來都日本的啦。"},{"start":620.305,"end":630.256,"text":"你說日本在台灣的時候那些文獻你都把它做出來 都把它數位化那你把它做出來之後不要說民眾看不到 不一定有趣味連我來看我也看不到"},{"start":632.615,"end":653.113,"text":"所以我們花了大錢以後所以我那種歷史真正的價值不是把它做出來然後把它變成它有數位化了然後就把它放在那個地方了讓民眾要去接近更親近我覺得這個就很可惜了譬如說過去日本統治台灣你那個專賣的博文這就是對台灣的影響是什麼研究出來 看不到"},{"start":658.035,"end":674.184,"text":"我覺得就很可惜了所以我們不是只有數位而已所以那個館長這樣齁 預算我們也是跟你們一起但是該去做的像讓如何讓民眾更去接近他更方便去接近 我覺得這個很重要我們等一下館長你們簡單給他回應一下 來"},{"start":677.469,"end":692.821,"text":"謝謝委員的指教國使館除了修轉處之外還有採集處所以說電腦的部分也是接近民眾很重要的方式因為委員發起了關於一樓台灣歷史上的選舉為日本時代講到現在的總統大選所以那是很淺白的"},{"start":699.807,"end":727.539,"text":"也有一些關於美麗島事件或是中紀事件的那種展覽的方式我們可以注意要如何讓大眾可以接近、看好各個學校,特別是大學生,他們相關的教學活動來我們管理,這個頻率也不太管所以說除了數位的途徑,國內外的研究者可以很方便接近以外,這方面我也有注意"},{"start":728.499,"end":749.603,"text":"是啦 所以我是認為說像這樣子歷史的價值應該去發揮它更大的功能國家的預算砸下去了那不要讓只有研究的人知道不要歷史只是要放在那個地方只有傳承應該讓民眾也可以更親近更有機會不然你要做什麼 就是要讓人家看到嘛我認為這個部分應該再來加強啦好不好好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:42:56.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:42:56.424000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:42:56.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:42:56.764000+08:00","text":"有請總統府潘秘書長，還有國安會吳秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-21T09:42:56.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:42:57.125000+08:00","text":"請潘秘書長、吳秘書長上台備詢。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:43:19.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:43:40.379000+08:00","text":"請教兩位秘書長，先請教潘秘書長，我看這兩天新聞的熱搜裡面，大家看到美國總統川普跟習近平見面以後，在他的空軍一號裡面就直接講：他要跟治理臺灣的人談一談。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:43:40.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:43:57.312000+08:00","text":"我相信外界的解讀，就是他要跟賴總統談，我不曉得總統府或國安會對這件事是怎麼樣解讀？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:43:57.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:44:26.856000+08:00","text":"我相信這個其實也是一再地釋放出對於整個美中或美臺之間一個戰略性的模糊，比如傳達出來的意義，站在美國的立場也可以認為，我可以跟你談，美中之間可以在談判桌上談臺灣的議題，但是我也可以跟治理臺灣的總統直接對話。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:44:27.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:44:32.918000+08:00","text":"也就是說，其實可以把它解讀成對中國在外交上的一種施壓。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:44:35.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:44:48.982000+08:00","text":"當然站在臺灣民眾的立場也有一點擔心，川普在講話有時候瘋瘋癲癲，聽起來也很有藝術，但是也很擔心，臺灣被當成一種政治上的籌碼。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:44:49.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:44:53.744000+08:00","text":"我們總統府還是國安會有做沙盤推演嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:44:53.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:44:56.487000+08:00","text":"比如電話響起來，川普真的打過來了，秘書長，如果剛好川普真的打電話過來，你們怎麼因應？","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"潘秘書長孟安","start":"2026-05-21T09:45:06.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:45:11.637000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，川普總統打過來的電話都涉及國安的部分，我等一下再請國安會秘書長來講。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"潘秘書長孟安","start":"2026-05-21T09:45:11.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:45:42.932000+08:00","text":"但我要特別強調的是，臺美兩國的關係，包括川普總統所談的話，國安會長期努力跟耕耘，對美國在臺協會也好，或是對美國所有的國會政要，甚至白宮、國務院都有相當的一些溝通管道，暢通無阻，這一點請國人放心。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"潘秘書長孟安","start":"2026-05-21T09:45:44.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:46:05.662000+08:00","text":"總統也表示，尤其臺灣的這幾年，因為全體國人，包括大家的努力之下，用經濟、用和善維持整個國家的競爭力，讓臺灣在整個未來世界的經濟發展以及安全樞紐上，更是不可或缺的樞紐。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"潘秘書長孟安","start":"2026-05-21T09:46:08.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:46:24.816000+08:00","text":"可能有心人的疑慮會認為臺灣會被談判掉，我想這一點大家大可放心，因為川習會談判裡面，最終有透露三個訊息：第一個，對臺政策不變；第二個，維持臺海現狀；第三個，軍購只跟臺灣談，不用跟北京談，我想是這樣。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"潘秘書長孟安","start":"2026-05-21T09:46:24.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:46:25.716000+08:00","text":"至於他如果打電話來，我們國安單位是有一些相關的評估，我請秘書長來跟大家說明。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:46:25.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:46:26.797000+08:00","text":"當電話打來，當然吳釗燮秘書長適合談，但有一件事情，潘秘書長一定可以談。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:46:26.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:46:28.197000+08:00","text":"如果是我來找你，我會說：秘書長，我們很久沒見面了，不然你來找我，我請你吃土雞。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:46:52.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:46:54.432000+08:00","text":"賴總統說：如果他跟習近平見面，要請他喝珍珠奶茶。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:46:54.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:46:56.836000+08:00","text":"有一件事情你總是可以建議，你可以引誘他，川普總統如果打電話來，或是有機會要來臺灣見面，那你要請人家吃什麼？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"潘秘書長孟安","start":"2026-05-21T09:47:08.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:47:31.176000+08:00","text":"這個一定可以，當然基於國際禮儀，元首之間的對話有它的嚴謹性，該有的禮儀我也會做，甚至也會希望川普總統可不可以開擴音，但是因為涉及到國家機密，細節還是請國安會來處理，至於要喝珍珠奶茶或請他吃臭豆腐，我都可以。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:47:32.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:47:34.442000+08:00","text":"接下來要請教吳釗燮秘書長，潘秘書長說川普如果熱線有打電話過來的話，其實民眾要解讀的，倒也未必把它當成一個好像比較輕鬆的話題。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:47:34.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:48:09.366000+08:00","text":"其實我認為這個是非常嚴肅的，尤其是川普突然丟出這個變化球，如果我們國安團隊應付得好的話，把它打出一個臺灣跟重要民主盟友之間更為緊密的關鍵安打，我覺得非常重要。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:48:09.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:48:16.068000+08:00","text":"我不曉得吳秘書長如何因應川普突然拋出來的變化球？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:48:16.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:48:22.951000+08:00","text":"委員說得非常好，我們跟美國之間的關係，對我們來講非常的重要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:48:23.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:48:37.758000+08:00","text":"如果這些溝通、對話能夠不斷提高層級，而且對於區域和平穩定能夠持續保持對話的話，這個對我們臺灣來講很重要，對於民主國家、對印太地區來講都非常重要。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:48:38.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:48:56.623000+08:00","text":"我想委員也了解，我長期在外交單位工作，外交上面就是還沒有處理好的、還沒有完全可以對外公開的部分，我們必須要保持低調，如果有任何新的進展，我們再來跟社會公開。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:48:57.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:49:16.498000+08:00","text":"我們跟美國之間都共同關切的議題，就是臺海要和平穩定，大家共同的立場就是要維持現狀，這也是我們的現狀、也是我們的政策，我們不卑不亢、維持現狀，我們要跟友盟國家維持地區的和平與穩定。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:49:17.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:49:18.399000+08:00","text":"潘秘書長請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:49:18.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:49:53.096000+08:00","text":"我要繼續追問吳秘書長，我們這一次國安會裡面增加的預算，推動全社會防衛韌性，我相信大家在司法及法制委員會會來支持，但是其實社會大眾也會期待，你們這些研究案研究出來之後，變成……你們太多的報告出來以後，有沒有可能把你們的研究報告當作一般民眾看得懂的、村里版的，甚至於民眾版的？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:49:53.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:49:58.080000+08:00","text":"不要你們花了幾千萬研究，然後做出來的只是一種研究報告。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:49:59.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:50:02.202000+08:00","text":"你至少要讓地方民眾看得懂這個SOP到底是些什麼。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:50:02.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:50:03.643000+08:00","text":"譬如說演習，演習的部分不是只有測試，還有民間的力量怎麼樣去把它拉進來？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:50:03.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:50:20.950000+08:00","text":"譬如說超商、物流、電信，在這個關鍵時刻，其實這都是臺灣韌性的一部分。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:50:21.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:50:33.201000+08:00","text":"所以我期待，真正的韌性不是只有簡報做得漂亮，應該是有事情的時候、遇到事情的時候，全社會、整個社會有沒有辦法撐得住。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:50:33.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:50:34.322000+08:00","text":"我請秘書長簡單回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:50:36.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:50:38.697000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝委員的垂詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:50:39.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:50:49.848000+08:00","text":"全社會防衛韌性我們的確在國安會已經討論了很多，不只是跟各部會之間的合作，也跟地方政府合作，公私方面都有合作。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:50:50.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:51:16.308000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員有提到好幾個事情，都是我們目前在處理的，其中對於我們臺灣一般民眾的說明，最重要的一個機制就是小橘書，我們的小橘書已經發放到全國各家戶，透過這個小橘書就可以了解到在危機來臨的時候，大家如何保護自己、如何協助別人。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:51:17.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:51:33.071000+08:00","text":"另外，在全社會防衛韌性方面，我們也要確保有水的供應，而且在危機的時候可以去哪裡取得水、去哪裡取得食物，這一方面就是我們跟全國一些連鎖超商正在合作的一個議題。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:51:33.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:51:45.473000+08:00","text":"我們會逐漸透過全社會防衛委員會對外說明，讓大家都了解到臺灣在未來危機的時候，我們如何保護自己的安全。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:51:45.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:09.366000+08:00","text":"所以這個就是我要跟秘書長說的，上次我看到季連成將軍下鄉，有那麼多民眾來，他講的很白話，甚至叫我們的替代役，有的去唱歌或其他等等，像這種宣導，我覺得這個意義才是重大，不然你說我們國安會花了3,000萬去做一個研究報告出來，只有你們這些國安團隊知道。","quality":0.734},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:11.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:14.831000+08:00","text":"本席認為，既然是對社會的防衛韌性的話，這個重點要讓民眾知道。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"吳秘書長釗燮","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:14.831000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:15.831000+08:00","text":"對，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:14.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:16.032000+08:00","text":"這個才是重點，所以我期待這個部分還要繼續，好不好？會。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:16.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:16.613000+08:00","text":"主席再給我1分鐘，秘書長請回，我請國史館陳儀深館長。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:16.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:17.513000+08:00","text":"不好意思，你來了，要討預算，我也要叮嚀你一下。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:33.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:39.180000+08:00","text":"我要特別提出來的是，我們臺灣文獻館的三寶裡面，這個邏輯其實跟國安會一樣，我們不要只有你們學者看得懂、研究的人看得懂。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:39.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:52:57.607000+08:00","text":"我們錢花下去之後，現在數位化了，大家看得見，但是現在的重點不是有沒有數位化，我們做這些，政府花錢是要讓老百姓看得懂、有辦法讓民眾更親近，所以我期待……其實我們這些報告也都一樣，以後能不能更白話？","quality":0.721},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:52:58.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:53:26.156000+08:00","text":"比如說你的主題式策展跟學校教育之間結合，有的你翻譯出來都日本的……像日本治理臺灣的時候，那個文獻你都把它做出來、都把它數位化，但那個做出來之後，不要說民眾看不懂，不一定有趣，連我來看我也看不懂。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:53:29.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:53:48.593000+08:00","text":"我們花了大錢以後……歷史真正的價值不是把它做出來，讓它數位化了，然後就把它放在那個地方，我覺得這個就很可惜了，應該是要讓民眾去接近、更親近，譬如說過去日本統治臺灣，專賣的部分制度是怎樣？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:53:48.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:53:48.873000+08:00","text":"對臺灣的影響是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:53:48.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:53:56.716000+08:00","text":"如果研究出來大家卻看不懂，我覺得就很可惜了，所以我們不是只有數位而已。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:53:59.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:54:09.564000+08:00","text":"館長，預算我們也是支持你們，但是該去做的，像如何讓民眾更去接近它、更方便去接近，我覺得這個很重要。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:54:10.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:54:10.164000+08:00","text":"請館長簡單回應一下。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳館長儀深","start":"2026-05-21T09:54:13.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:54:13.949000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳館長儀深","start":"2026-05-21T09:54:15.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:54:25.078000+08:00","text":"國史館除了修纂處之外，還有采集處，所以展覽的部分也是接近民眾很重要的一個方式。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳館長儀深","start":"2026-05-21T09:54:26.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:55:03.519000+08:00","text":"我記得委員有去過我們館的一樓參觀，像臺灣歷史上的選舉，從日本時代講到現在的總統大選，那是很淺白的，也有一些關於美麗島事件或是中壢事件那種展覽的方式，我們會去注意要怎麼讓大眾都可以接近、看得懂；各個學校特別是大學生，他們相關的教學活動來我們館裡的頻率也滿高的，所以除了數位的途徑，讓國內外的研究者可以很方便接近以外，這方面我也有注意。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:55:04.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:55:24.963000+08:00","text":"是啦，我認為歷史的價值應該發揮它更大的功能，國家的預算砸下去了，不要只有讓研究的人知道，不要歷史只是放在那個地方，只有傳承，應該讓民眾也可以更親近、更有機會接近它，不然翻譯要做什麼？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:55:24.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:55:25.203000+08:00","text":"就是要讓人家看得懂嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-05-21T09:55:25.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T09:55:25.603000+08:00","text":"我認為這個部分應該再加強，好不好？謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"主席（莊委員瑞雄）","start":"2026-05-21T09:55:26.103000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-21T09:55:31.531571+08:00","text":"接下來請我們最專業、美麗的林倩綺委員詢答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（莊委員瑞雄）","start":"2026-05-21T09:55:31.831571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-21T09:55:34.974429+08:00","text":"我稱讚你了，請你手下留情。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}