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感謝主席是不是可以先請我們水利署署長跟我們交通部次長水利署署長 交通部次長好"},{"start":20.868,"end":38.528,"text":"感謝署長、次長本席今天感謝這個召委安排這樣的一個專案報告那其實相對重要那本席這邊地方也有我們需要來共同探討的部分就是我們的淡水河其實上個禮拜淡江大橋通車之後讓淡水河又再一次很多國人去看"},{"start":39.048,"end":60.034,"text":"那淡江大橋通車當然方便可是另外一個部分就是過去到現在本市也一直也召集過幾次開會可是一直沒有辦法解決的問題就是淡水河下游的泥沙淤積的狀況有一說是說是石門水庫這邊的泥沙這個排放也因此造成是說我們下游的泥沙淤積流速比較慢但不管怎麼樣"},{"start":60.894,"end":89.424,"text":"因為這個中央地方的全車單位太多而泥沙淤積會有什麼樣的狀況其實就是我們淡水河兩岸的這個交通的一個部分就是過去一直都有所謂藍色公路那當然淡江大橋通車之後可能藍色公路的這個運載的人數可能會下降可是另外一個部分為什麼會特別也請交通部這邊來就是它未來也可以變成是北台灣很重要的一個觀光或是休憩的相關的轉型"},{"start":89.684,"end":105.995,"text":"我覺得這就是好契機 但 泥沙預計要先解決所以 署長 能不能 召集 因為光一個淡水河 您知道那周邊從岸邊 岸上到河 河海分河中間 河旁邊都是不同單位在管理"},{"start":107.12,"end":135.629,"text":"署長報告委員在全省類似這種狀況其實蠻多的那只要是它涉及到防洪安全的部分是這個由我們水利署這邊會來統籌但是因為那一段因為它是在河口那邊對防洪安全沒有直接影響沒有直接影響但是它對航道有影響所以在過去的做法會回歸到目的事業主管機關來做主政"},{"start":136.989,"end":158.478,"text":"那一塊部分所以雖然是和尚可是那是算交通部交通局 回歸到事業單位啦看那個事業單位是誰當然那一段可能就是以這個航道為主署長對這就是本席過去到現在這官員你看連交通部長交通部次長在後面你們兩個部位一個經濟部一個交通部也都在合規了在台灣類似的狀況真的很大"},{"start":159.778,"end":189.042,"text":"躲向很多漁港或者是說很多的來 但署長我請教一下淡水河河中間或是說那應該是算第十河川局管的吧是 那是我們管理的是來我去了解岸邊算高灘處然後呢這個河道 航道又算交通局可是它又有觀光相關的效應然後水利署又講說這是第十河川局的管理可是只要沒有涉及防洪又不歸第十河川局管"},{"start":190.199,"end":218.144,"text":"那這樣就變成是說大家都有責任 可是大家都不管然後結果就是讓泥沙子去一擊嘛但我們現在這樣子好不好 署長面對問題 解決問題啊本席也不是說完全就是要水利署來做全權的負責但至少是不是能夠以中央部會因為你還是主管機關來邀集可以我們來邀集 來就這個問題因為但是可能還是將來會回歸到目的事業單位的一個概念"},{"start":218.624,"end":221.03,"text":"不可能 都變成是說那個是 我們來邀請是沒有問題的來 那個次長"},{"start":227.762,"end":246.171,"text":"市長那一條的部分就是我們所謂的這個兩岸的往返就是淡水河兩岸往返那就是藍色公路那總不可能說只有那一條歸而且現在地方政府交通局就推給業者就是要業者自己去處理那可是如果說那個泥沙淤積的狀況現實是由其他"},{"start":248.852,"end":270.456,"text":"不可抗力因素或是天災或是說等等的部分來的泥沙淤積那你就變成是說這個燙手山芋還是丟給業者那就某種程度上無形當中你就是希望業者自然死亡自然淘汰他到時候沒有辦法無力清除那他可能他就沒有辦法經營可是對於我們整體觀光產業的發展來講它不會是一個好事啊是"},{"start":271.296,"end":290.011,"text":"跟委員報告要經營如果要經營河川或是河上的觀光其實以往也有目前也有而且最近我也看到淡江大通車以後有些業者是在淡水沿岸招攬客人去看橋下甚至夜間的風光所以是有潛力那回過頭來講這個事業或是這個領域要去推動的話"},{"start":296.616,"end":321.332,"text":"我是個人認為台北跟新北市的交通跟觀光單位要合作去思考一下如果要開放這樣的河運那他要輸運哪些甚至要清淤哪些河道因為採用的船不一樣會影響到他可否在某些地方靠岸第二個他的河道到底要輸進多深那這個會跟他採用的船型大小有關吃水深度有關"},{"start":321.732,"end":345.887,"text":"沒錯 因為從大稻埕碼頭開始就一路沿河就會有不同的大小船隻不管是那種觀光的可以包遊艇的甚至小型的這種還是說比較通勤的那當然這個所以其實次長你也了解問題嘛你剛剛特別提到就是說台北市政府跟新北市政府嘛但更重要的是它是一個框框的議題所以本席才會就"},{"start":347.148,"end":374.336,"text":"比較上位的一個角度來講是不是能夠請觀光署來召集兩市政府這邊來共同討論至少我們把它變成是一個package因為觀光客我們現在都期待是說有更多國外觀光客來到台灣那我覺得說這個未來真的是一個很有潛力啊甚至你看關渡大橋淡江大橋尤其淡江大橋這個是札哈迭的遺作所以說如果說能夠用這樣子的一個橋上橋下的風光然後讓這個觀光船能夠來走"},{"start":377.417,"end":404.271,"text":"來兩個部分啦 因為主席已經站起來了水利署剛剛已經有講是說會進行針對這個是 水利署可能他空氣要召開必要的清淤跟河道的促進是必要啦那至於要做多深或是能不能滿足觀光船的需求這個得跟交通兩個交通局跟觀光旅遊主管機關一起來討論所以那這樣是不是請交通部觀光署這邊至少你責成觀光署找兩市政府來針對這一個怎麼樣來促進發展來開一個會了解"},{"start":406.812,"end":414.498,"text":"然後水利署的部分就是針對我們剛剛講到藍色公路的部分來去做再召集開會但是把相關的單位一起找來"},{"start":415.629,"end":437.436,"text":"好 謝謝委員一個月內執行我們啟動這樣的討論讓他們來協商好 那把相關的資料也再跟本席本席他會持續追好不好 因為我的個性就是這樣子但是有些時候難免一講再講但是如果說能夠解決問題我想這才是最重要 好嗎是 謝謝委員拜託 謝謝好 謝謝何鵬卡委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:05:13.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:05:21.738000+08:00","text":"好，感謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:05:22.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:05:28.523000+08:00","text":"是不是可以先請水利署署長跟交通部次長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-21T12:05:28.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:05:30.745000+08:00","text":"水利署署長、交通部次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:05:31.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:05:33.730000+08:00","text":"感謝署長、次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:05:33.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:06:17.916000+08:00","text":"本席今天感謝召委安排這樣的專案報告，其實相對重要，本席這邊的地方也有我們需要共同探討的部分，就是我們的淡水河，其實上個禮拜淡江大橋通車之後，讓淡水河又再一次……很多國人也去看，淡江大橋通車當然方便，可是另外一個部分，本席過去到現在也召集過幾次開會，可是一直沒有辦法解決的問題，就是淡水河下游泥沙淤積的狀況，有一說是石門水庫的泥沙排放，因此造成我們下游的泥沙淤積，流速比較慢，但不管怎麼樣，因為中央、地方的權責單位太多，而泥沙淤積會有什麼樣的狀況？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:06:18.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:06:59.360000+08:00","text":"就是淡水河兩岸的交通部分，過去一直都有所謂的藍色公路，當然淡江大橋通車之後，藍色公路的運載人數可能會下降，可是另外一個部分，為什麼會特別也請交通部來，就是未來也可以變成北臺灣很重要的一個觀光，或是休憩的相關轉型，我覺得這就是好的契機，但泥沙淤積要先解決，所以署長能不能召集……因為光一個淡水河，您知道那裡周邊，從岸邊、岸上到河，河還分河中間、河旁邊，都是不同單位在管理，署長。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-05-21T12:06:59.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:18.866000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在全省類似這種狀況其實蠻多的，只要是涉及到防洪安全的部分，是由水利署來統籌，但是因為那一段是在河口，對防洪安全沒有直接影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:18.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:19.727000+08:00","text":"沒有直接影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:19.727000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:20.727000+08:00","text":"有沒有間接影響？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:19.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:26.609000+08:00","text":"但是對於航道有影響，所以在過去的做法，那一塊會回歸到目的事業主管機關來做主政。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:29.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:32.991000+08:00","text":"所以雖然是河上，可是那是算交通局？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:33.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:39.053000+08:00","text":"到事業單位，看那個事業單位是誰，當然那一段可能就是以航道為主。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:39.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:48.697000+08:00","text":"署長，這就是本席從過去到現在說的，交通部次長在後面，你們兩個部會經濟部跟交通部都在互推了。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:48.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:07:54.341000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，因為在臺灣類似的狀況真的很多，很多漁港或是類似的狀況很多。","quality":0.576},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:07:55.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:00.446000+08:00","text":"署長，我請教一下淡水河的河中間，那應該屬於第十河川局管的吧？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:01.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:02.568000+08:00","text":"是，是我們管理的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:04.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:20.022000+08:00","text":"我去了解岸邊算高灘處，然後河道航道算交通局，可是它又有觀光相關的效益，水利署又講這歸第十河川局管理，可是只要沒有涉及防洪，則不歸第十河川局管。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:21.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:26.040000+08:00","text":"這樣就變成是大家都有責任，可是大家都不管，結果就是泥沙持續淤積。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:27.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:28.660000+08:00","text":"我們現在這樣子好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:28.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:37.842000+08:00","text":"署長，面對問題、解決問題，本席也不是完全就是要水利署全權負責，但至少是不是能夠由中央部會來邀集？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:37.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:40.702000+08:00","text":"因為你還是主管機關。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:40.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:48.364000+08:00","text":"我們可以再來邀集開會討論這個問題，但是將來可能還是會回歸到目的事業單位。","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:49.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:51.028000+08:00","text":"不可能變成泥沙淤積就只有那一條。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:51.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:52.030000+08:00","text":"我們來邀集是沒有問題的。次長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:52.030000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-21T12:08:59.102000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:08:59.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:09:13.629000+08:00","text":"那一條就是我們所謂的兩岸往返即淡水河兩岸往返，就是藍色公路，總不可能只有那一條，而且現在地方政府交通局推給業者，讓業者自己去處理。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:09:14.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:09:40.935000+08:00","text":"可是如果泥沙淤積的狀況，現實是由其他不可抗力因素或是天災等等所致，這樣就變成這個燙手山芋還是丟給業者，在某種程度上，無形當中也就是希望業者自然死亡、自然淘汰，業者到時候無力清除，他可能就沒有辦法經營，對於我們整體觀光產業的發展來講，這不會是一個好事。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:09:41.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:09:59.450000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，要經營河川或是河上的觀光，其實以往有，目前也有，而且最近我也看到淡江大橋通車以後，有些業者是在淡水沿岸招攬客人去看橋下夜間的風光。沒錯。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:09:59.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:09:59.790000+08:00","text":"所以是有潛力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:09:59.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:10:19.464000+08:00","text":"回過頭來講，要推動這個事業或是這個領域的話，我個人是認為臺北跟新北市的交通及觀光單位要合作，去思考一下，如果要開放這樣的河運，要疏濬哪些，甚至要清淤哪些河道？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:10:20.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:10:25.327000+08:00","text":"因為採用的船不一樣，會影響到可否在某些地方靠岸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:10:25.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:10:28.109000+08:00","text":"第二個，河道到底要疏濬多深？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:10:29.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:10:32.332000+08:00","text":"這個會跟採用船型大小的吃水深度有關。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:10:32.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:10:45.380000+08:00","text":"沒錯，因為從大稻埕碼頭開始，沿河就會有大小不同的船隻，不管是觀光的、可以包遊艇的，甚至小型的，還是通勤的。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:10:47.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:11:05.590000+08:00","text":"所以其實次長你也了解問題，你剛剛特別提到臺北市政府跟新北市政府，但更重要的是它是一個觀光的議題，所以本席才會就比較上位的角度來講，是不是能夠請觀光署來召集兩市政府來共同討論？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:11:05.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:11:25.316000+08:00","text":"至少我們把它變成是一個package，因為我們現在都期待有更多國外觀光客來到臺灣，我覺得這個未來真的很有潛力，甚至你看關渡大橋、淡江大橋，尤其淡江大橋是札哈．哈蒂的遺作，所以如果能夠用這樣子一個橋上橋下的風光，讓觀光船來走。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:11:28.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:11:29.518000+08:00","text":"主席已經站起來了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:11:29.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:11:32.739000+08:00","text":"兩個部分，水利署剛剛已經有講近期會針對通勤召開……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:11:33.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:11:49.428000+08:00","text":"水利署部分，可能清淤跟河道疏濬是必要的，至於要做多深或是能不能滿足觀光船的需求，這個得跟兩個交通局及觀光旅遊主管機關一起來討論。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:11:49.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:11:55.251000+08:00","text":"那這樣是不是請交通部觀光署，至少責成觀光署找兩市政府來針對如何促進發展開一個會？了解。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:11:57.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:05.498000+08:00","text":"然後水利署的部分，就是針對我們剛剛講到藍色公路部分來召集開會，把相關單位一起找來，可以嗎？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:07.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:08.109000+08:00","text":"可以，謝謝委員。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:08.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:09.190000+08:00","text":"1個月內執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:10.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:12.711000+08:00","text":"我們啟動這樣的討論，請他們來協商，","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:12.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:17.192000+08:00","text":"好，把相關的資料也給本席，本席會持續追，好不好？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:17.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:24.995000+08:00","text":"因為我的個性就是這樣子，有些時候難免一講再講，但是如果能夠解決問題，我想這才是最重要的，好不好？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林次長國顯","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:25.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:25.835000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:25.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:27.176000+08:00","text":"拜託，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:27.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:28.436000+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:28.936000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:30.364571+08:00","text":"謝謝交通部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-21T12:12:30.664571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-21T12:12:33.807429+08:00","text":"接下來請蔡春綢委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}