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部長跟署長好那我想我今天是想跟兩位請教大雨來襲如何治水的問題那我想上個禮拜花蓮縣的光復鄉就是大雨滂沱然後這個到處淹水形成一片水鄉澤國的慘況那我希望我們政府官員面對這樣的一個慘況"},{"start":45.342,"end":57.394,"text":"能夠發揮人機幾機 人蜜幾蜜的精神那我這邊想要請教呢 請教部長 農業部長浮水接淹水的原因是什麼據我了解"},{"start":60.604,"end":81.414,"text":"整個的淹水大概分兩個部分一個部分是那個去排水的部分那另外一個部分是當初的土體有沒有那個排水溝就是有一些淤積的部分大概分兩個部分好那請問一下淤積的泥土是從哪邊來淤積的泥土我相信應該是當初馬太安淹進去的時候這些泥沙"},{"start":82.19,"end":110.807,"text":"是是是好那我想對沒錯罪魁禍首呢其實就是來自於這些馬太安溪潰堤然後呢帶過來的泥土那這些泥土又堆積在農田上面那大雨一來呢就把這些泥土沖進去排水道裡面所以造成這麼嚴重的淹水那我現在想請問呢到底這樣的淤泥呢因為總不能每次下雨的時候這些泥土完全都管不住嘛就跑到這個排水道裡面去"},{"start":112.068,"end":127.416,"text":"那因為畢竟這個泥土的淤積的高度剛聽到有三四公尺甚至有高達五六公尺的那請問一下這個淤泥要怎麼處理我想淤泥的部分的清除我想很多相關的治理大概是中央跟地方一起合作"},{"start":127.896,"end":146.306,"text":"是那其實剛才有些委員提供的簡報也看得出來縣市政府這邊可能有一些進度需要去加強那有一部分在清淤的部分是水利署在處理的那以農業部來講我們是針對農田上面的一個復原讓它重新能夠種植理解那我們請要不要請國土署來說面"},{"start":150.06,"end":165.793,"text":"跟委員報告齁大概如果說是排水路周邊的這個泥土的話我們會依照上次我們跟縣政府這邊現刊的那會把周邊排水路的一個淤土的話再往後面去清所以就是說我們會做一個比較緩衝的一個空間"},{"start":167.274,"end":191.163,"text":"在這個我們既有的這個這是連外的雨田水路我了解我理解我了解就是不要我是覺得說當然有提到中央的責任縣市政府的責任那我覺得不要完全的把責任往縣市政府的方向推去因為縣市政府雖然他們是執行者但是中央其實也是一個監督者所以如果地方執行我們一直強調中央跟地方一起合作"},{"start":191.503,"end":217.235,"text":"是是是好那我覺得這種相輔相成的態度我們樂見其成那我現在比較更想請教的就是說有沒有一些事前預防跟事後加強的一個動作出來因為我們知道桃園治水蠻有成效的那他們其實有一些事前定期的巡查跟定期的勤餘然後甚至會把這些結果公告在網路上讓大家公告周知了解狀況"},{"start":218.175,"end":220.038,"text":"那如果對於一些比較容易這個淹水的熱點他們當下會加強巡查加強勤於不知道這個花蓮縣政府中央在監督上有沒有加強這一點"},{"start":234.896,"end":250.377,"text":"跟委員報告我們大概這一兩個月大概跟縣政府去看過很多次不同的長官帶隊也有政務委員也有李孟岩顧問主要的問題就是我們現在已經跟縣政府"},{"start":251.438,"end":275.861,"text":"確定好哪些地方在汛擠的時候一定要清的位置那另外就是剛剛我提到那個緩衝的部分會先做一個類似緩衝的濾帶滴滴先讓他做沉砂要先讓他做沉砂那後續的管控就是縣政府他會依照他實際上的語量如果他真的緩衝到一個時間沒辦法的話他必須要去拉警戒線就是說這個部分也必須要去封堵這一些道路"},{"start":276.121,"end":300.04,"text":"好 了解 我有看到中央在監督有在從你的話語當中有監督但可不可以給我們一些書面報告就是如何監督監督的時程跟力道可不可以呈現出來那一個兩個禮拜之後 好吧兩個禮拜之後把這個報告交到我們這邊來那我工程會的那個副主委可以請請工程會副主委有來嗎"},{"start":303.837,"end":323.397,"text":"那我可以跟副主委請教嗎阿桃木部落淹水的原因是什麼跟委員報告阿桃木那邊大概現在是那個內政部國土署那邊有補助那個花蓮縣政府那邊有四條縣管的排水那他會接到花蓮溪那因為那個工程我知道沒關係因為時間有限我直接破題"},{"start":323.937,"end":346.255,"text":"因為行政顧問李孟彥他提到會那個淹水最主要的原因是因為那邊有個施工然後施工有個7公尺寬的一個出入口那結果呢溪流那個大雨就趁由這個施工的缺口就淹到阿桃木部落那這個我只是想問說7公分寬的出入口是一個標準作業嗎"},{"start":347.779,"end":362.383,"text":"這是行政院顧問題的版本啦 答案的版本因為他那個是 那一段是在馬達納西的那個備水題那在訊息來前先用鋼板鋼板裝施作那他施作就是 沒關係 7公尺寬的出入口就是呈現在我們眼前嘛那淹水這個就是倒嬰 那現在倒嬰就7公尺寬出入口是標準作業嗎"},{"start":371.667,"end":386.847,"text":"因為它是施工便當的出入口所以它是雨油讓積聚可以下去那現在問題是大雨滂沱嘛那難道都不需要做一些防護措施嗎我現在已經補起來當天縣政府不是啊 當天就沒有補嘛所以雨就是這樣子沖刷下去嘛造成水鄉澤國的淹水有沒有人要負責"},{"start":390.55,"end":407.829,"text":"7公尺快是不是標準作業 顯然不是標準作業嘛那誰要為這個疏失來負責這個施工便當沒有什麼標準作業他只是說那邊有一個缺口因為他設計就480公尺那7公尺會不會太寬然後遇到大雨來襲是不是要做一些防護措施當然出入口是必要的 否則怎麼進行施工有沒有人要負責"},{"start":409.205,"end":437.551,"text":"我想這個證實我還不知道說這個是要負責什麼啦因為那個大區你還是要讓你你七公尺寬是不是標準作業都回答不出來了然後呢要不要負責又好像有點推脫的態度好沒關係反正呢就交給這個我們的國人去評判你們的態度那現在就是未來還有十項工程要進行請問這樣的司空缺口七公尺寬的缺口還會再出現嗎因為我們怕相同的悲劇又再重演"},{"start":438.491,"end":454.342,"text":"接下來有實相工程PPT上面有是是是是這個那個我想縣政府的這個單位跟施工廠商他們都已經知道這次的狀況啦所以我想大家會更加提高戒備啦好那沒有問題與其當前噩夢會不會重演來剛國土署副署長部長還有我們的副主委可不可以給我們掛保證"},{"start":460.126,"end":467.853,"text":"雨季當前會不會惡夢再重演 水鄉澤國的慘劇會不會再重演 來3位ABC3位能不能給我們掛保證我要的是一個掛保證 因為沒有掛保證那裡的居民就會掛掉他們的財產就會掛掉 他們的心情就會掛掉說不定人命還會掛掉 來ABC3個可不可以掛保證"},{"start":481.924,"end":500.622,"text":"搶答看誰最先回答要保證什麼保證就是惡夢不會重演啊水箱折國淹水啊我講天然災害是一個不可預測的不是那可以人為的動作來做防護啊我們在以農業部來講我剛已經說過了官員要人機己及人逆己逆總不論他們逆在那邊然後我們在這邊"},{"start":503.164,"end":514.972,"text":"天然炸藥它的高度的不確定性 它的雨量沒有人能夠防止天災來臨 但是可以做好防護措施防護措施做得好不好就是舉例比行政官員有沒有用心的去處理採取移植措施所以好 沒關係時間到了 我今天得到一個結論就是三個主管不敢下保證 那我們就希望"},{"start":529.602,"end":542.115,"text":"災情來的時候 居民不要掛掉我覺得你們這個保證淹水啊 水箱折火啊 淤泥跑到排水道啊七種紙張的路口造成淹水的阻陰這未來要怎麼防範啊我對針對農業部負責任的說嘛我們一定是針對農田的復育我們會加速去做"},{"start":552.145,"end":578.716,"text":"對 這個就很單純啊所以妳保證妳可以做得好嗎妳就保證就好了啊妳保證什麼嘛 保證什麼保證妳的品質啊 妳的施政品質啊我想整個農田的富裕它有不同的階段性的部分然後該給當地的地區的這些灌溉排水的清淤我們也已經做到了對 妳就保證嘛 妳就說我100%可以做到保證我的施政品質好嘛施政品質我相信我們一定是盡我們的努力去做的"},{"start":579.156,"end":602.163,"text":"好 OK 那其他兩位呢 敢掛保證嗎 要不然我們花蓮的居民可能就會掛掉我想剛剛我們農業部長陳部長已經講很多了那我們大概就是做好最主的準備最好的準備嘛那災害因為在那個極端氣候在那個大自然面前我們還是保持謙卑那災害我們我想能夠做就盡量做 但是我們的預警機制也要把它做好"},{"start":602.623,"end":612.211,"text":"當然 入境機制就是取決於政府有沒有積極的雷厲風行的一個故事啦大家一起來把生活自己的家園好不好是 好 來 下一個國土署"},{"start":614.111,"end":637.178,"text":"國土組這邊跟縣政府這邊有來合作就是確保既有的設施發揮它的防洪功能是是是 所以這算是一種保證嗎好 謝謝三位主管的保證保證你們會做好施政的品質那我們就期待汛期來的時候我們的水箱折果的情形不要說完全的根絕但是至少沒有像上個禮拜這麼淒慘好 以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝春日綠"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}