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看一下影片什麼叫偽裝攝影機那個放在那個火災的感應器裡面放在衛生紙裡面偷放一個攝影機甚至在筆裡面他也可以放針孔攝影機院長"},{"start":279.819,"end":297.792,"text":"什麼樣的人會需要使用偷拍攝影機我們難道不應該實名制做一些管理嗎剛好日本韓國都已經下架了就是說平台它不可以販賣去年市政府來函行政院回覆從來沒有在裡面說這個事情我們不用管"},{"start":298.813,"end":318.118,"text":"從來沒有這樣講我們是講出很多的情境那主要這個查查巡查在地方政府我們在回覆當中是說地方政府如果又發現在執行上要必須加強的...院長我不想再跟你講去年因為這整件事情我們非常清楚就是說...因為剛剛您說不必管這件事情不是真的"},{"start":320.359,"end":344.927,"text":"好 那麼對這些工這些事情我們對隱匿的這些器材包括它從來源取得或是它經過實體或是這個平台上去取得都必須要再做加強管理尤其是 孫立你也同意實名制囉你也同意接下來實名制嗎實名制是否可實行我們還要再研究但是如果在平台上 還要研究多久在我看來 院長我是女性在我看來"},{"start":346.327,"end":360.196,"text":"這整件事情我們非常清楚知道台北市政府出這個公文它的意義是什麼那你的藉口也就算了在我民眾看來在我民眾看來這件事情會爆發議論我們要跟你講不是藉口"},{"start":363.878,"end":365.98,"text":"我先補充報告委員報告爆發這個醫美診所偷拍的事件之後"},{"start":385.74,"end":411.341,"text":"立刻在第一時間你不用回答我這件事情我只問未來平台上我沒有說不可以販賣我說實名制登記要買實名制登記當爆發事情的時候我們可以回溯去說到底是誰我們十字公買那個十字公竟然都要實名制登記難道買偷拍攝影機偽裝攝影機這件事情我們不該有實名制登記嗎攝影器材本身並不是違法品我現在講的是偽裝式的"},{"start":412.642,"end":438.402,"text":"所以這些設備要先給你定義 什麼樣的設備我同意 但是這個定義不滿啊那我們前兩天行政院張秘書長已經開過相關的會我們從他的行為面 設備面 法規面 以及沒關係 院長我同意 要過多久 院長還要多久要過多久 去年市政府來函給行政院之後快一年的 市政府也沒有任何進展啊"},{"start":439.025,"end":442.147,"text":"對現在數百個個案已經報告發了告發人數百位個案我們嚴格的來查查請地方政府來配合"},{"start":456.556,"end":485.257,"text":"第二個 各個場域都有相關的法規 院長我請問你有沒有實名制 能不能實名制 要求實名制你要買這些偽裝式的針孔攝影機設備而言 我們先定義哪一種設備去叫實名如果平台上面買到的從境外來的 當然要實名制如果它用經過我們的這個海關進來的該管理的設備進到廠商 店家當然要實名如果海外 院長"},{"start":485.757,"end":507.46,"text":"因為我的時間只有15分鐘海外的 國內的都偽裝式的攝影機我們什麼時候才能實名制登記可不可以給我答覆我們正在研究 最快的時間我們研究出一個方式我們要管理到店家要實名制沒關係 因為你只要一個考慮下去他們就是要大概要多久"},{"start":508.641,"end":516.963,"text":"媒體需要答案 國運也需要一個答覆我們需要把整個制度弄好我想很快的時間 我會跟專業處長研究醫療院所就是不可以偷拍 我們不會容忍"},{"start":536.551,"end":561.866,"text":"所以我 沒關係 院長我只要防止有些人拿偽裝攝影機 所以當他犯罪的時候我們可以回溯到這到底是項目欸 警察也可以追得到不像現在找不到人嘛所以你現在回答不出來我的答案 那也沒關係我們協會都有請各部會兩個禮拜天要回覆他們去調查的結果出來那麼訂定一套可行的制度出來"},{"start":563.473,"end":590.623,"text":"所以還要多久 可行的制度還要多久還是不知道就對了好沒關係 我尊重院長這也是一個答案我不能急救章跟你講一個大家做不到的事情我們已經要求訴訴來辦理這個事情院長我只是很遺憾我身為女性醫美診所旁邊的朋友民眾看到的這個還是沒有答案好沒關係 我問一下下一個問題就是說針對霸凌案的事件那個次長你請回我先把法律講清楚 院長今年1月9號公務人員保障法已經開始實施"},{"start":592.725,"end":606.745,"text":"严慧心严副代表在当时提辞职信的时候我们在2月19号已经提出辞职信当时如果有机关知道说这是霸凌事件的话按照"},{"start":607.406,"end":632.341,"text":"公務人員保障法因為MeToo事件之後一連串包含之前發生勞動部的事件我們都對公務人員相關有霸凌事件只是在公部機關民間機關我們都是不允許的我們也更認為說機關按照法規我們應該採取立即有效的糾正跟補措的措施那行為人涉嫌案件重大的話就必須要先調整職務"},{"start":634.102,"end":660.329,"text":"這是法規法的規定寫得清清楚楚而且這是在勞動部之前發生事件之後我們在1月9號公務人員保障法當時就寫得很清楚那當時外部調查小組就建議說楊政委楊珍妮就說要請假或者是依規定依規定應該要請假那後來楊珍妮也回應說好我依規定適度辦理我現在先請勞動部部長上來"},{"start":664.83,"end":682.72,"text":"這個如果發生在民間因為我們今年執安法7月1號就要上路這件事情如果發生在民營的機關就是說依照法規我們要求應該要有一些有效的措施或補正措施"},{"start":685.405,"end":709.861,"text":"應該要請假 他也回應依規定辦理部長 你可以接受嗎 職安法如果在民間的職場有這樣的案子發生 有霸凌事件發生我們要求要請假 他只回應這個涉嫌霸凌的人說我依規定辦理我會適度辦理那最後沒有任何作為這個答案你可以接受嗎"},{"start":711.561,"end":725.07,"text":"他說你現在的答案不是依規他不是說他依規定辦理嗎依什麼規定他沒有做任何作為啊他還是在職位上啊按照道理說他應該是先調離如果有霸凌事件發生應該先調離現職讓"},{"start":729.244,"end":740.999,"text":"涉嫌霸凌者跟受霸凌的人要稍微分開一下這是我們治安法當時立這個法的主要精神在根文說明 調離是一種方法但基本上是希望這個"},{"start":743.566,"end":764.405,"text":"潛在的接受調查的是分開不見得一定只有調查好沒關係來那院長就是說這個過程當中其實我們楊政委從來沒有離開位子上也沒有分開過所以這個霸凌事件就一直在發生我覺得你剛才部長你也解釋得很清楚治安法按照道理說"},{"start":765.606,"end":783.856,"text":"不管是不是調離限職要稍微分開一下要求他請假幾天或讓這兩個人分開不一定只有調離限職這個做法而是讓他們在業務上面的互動減少互動或者是先切割開來不會那麼緊密可是不是只有調離這個做法委員三件事情報告"},{"start":784.716,"end":801.798,"text":"外部委員建議楊珍妮政委請假並沒有直接請她調離那她也適度的請假第二她也適度的請假減少上班工作的時間她也適度的請假第二她沒有去影響或是阻礙任何調查的過程"},{"start":803.24,"end":826.802,"text":"第三 最重要的 楊珍妮認為現在人在中國 在江蘇參加APEC相關的會議前面這兩個禮拜 她還是有一些必須為這個國際性會議要準備的事項所以她降低最小的工作量能 維持最小的工作程度絕對沒有去影響任何書面或私底調查我這樣聽起來 院長 其實大齡事件你早就聽說了"},{"start":828.243,"end":854.17,"text":"在他辭職之前你早就聽說這是另外一件 這不是我今天我今天其實很多重點要問但是我認為這件事情 院長你早就知晰了按照道理說機關的最高的我看到嚴副總代表的辭職信那個時候我們在想我們如果了解但第一個那個是過年前農曆年前第二他人在生病當中這麼重要 院長這麼重要的職位我們都沒辦法當場去了解他所說的內容"},{"start":855.182,"end":877.002,"text":"院長這麼重要的人這麼重要的位階包括我相信副院長也一定都非常清楚我非常遺憾就是說我們既然已經有工人員保障法但整個霸凌事件在公本文是這樣子的處理態度所以為什麼我剛才問勞動部部長今天7月1號我們就要上路他的實質性你沒有講到他都沒有向我們提起"},{"start":880.825,"end":901.116,"text":"但是那個實質性我們看到了當時是過年前他仍在生病當中第一時間我當然無法馬上去跟他談院長這個霸凌的事件發生的時候我不相信在職場同一個職場旁邊的幾個這一圈第二圈的人都沒有人聽說這件事我是對我來說我覺得不可置信那我們去了解真相"},{"start":901.516,"end":923.791,"text":"沒關係 因為這個事情在調查當中但是院長 保訊會就是說兩個月之內就要完成調查那我請問5月27號保訊會就會有一個結果那到底會不會有結果出來 還是要再延?依規定可以再延長一定的時間這麼單純的案子還要再延長一個月他仍在參加APEC委員 請您將心比心"},{"start":924.859,"end":928.901,"text":"國家重要的會議他去參加所以等他回來就再進一步的說明這樣難道不行嗎為國家一個公務員"},{"start":953.684,"end":953.971,"text":"好謝謝你"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:31:07+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:31:08+08:00","text":"院長，可不可以邀請卓院長以及衛福部次長？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:31:07.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:31:07.770000+08:00","text":"麻煩請卓院長、次長備詢。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:31:07.770000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:31:26.757000+08:00","text":"李委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:31:26.757000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:31:45.744000+08:00","text":"院長午安。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:31:45.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:32:04.731000+08:00","text":"院長，我今天要跟你討論一下，近期發生一連串的連鎖醫美爆發的系統性偷拍事件，從病人的權益到偷拍的防制，整個國家制度到底漏接了哪些東西。","quality":0.131},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:32:04.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:32:11.118000+08:00","text":"前一陣子愛爾麗連鎖集團，還有幾個醫療院所發生偷拍的事件之後，愛爾麗宣布用1億元成立會員信託基金，看起來是有誠意的，但是消基會馬上就打臉信託基金不等於保障，恐怕是看得到、吃不到。","quality":0.325},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:32:11.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:32:30.618000+08:00","text":"我要強調更關鍵的是信託基金不能取代企業原本就應該要負的所有責任，也就是所有的財務糾紛裡面不一定所有的人都可以申請到信託基金的支付。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:32:31.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:32:50.494000+08:00","text":"所以近期無論從媒體上看到，我的辦公室也有接到陳情，民眾在跟醫美診所要求退費的時候，比如，有些人買五堂送一堂、十堂送一堂，原本要送的那第一堂就變成沒有送，那第一堂要收費，這個是其中一種狀態。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:32:50.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:33:28.718000+08:00","text":"第二種，我接到陳情，甚至有一些診所要求退費同時要簽同意醫療過程錄影錄音的同意書，這件事我相信次長也有從媒體上看到，就是假贈送真扣款，甚至是誘導要簽同意錄影錄音的同意書這件事情，我要請問衛福部有沒有掌握這件事，無論從媒體上看到，還有臉書等社群網路都有討論這件事情，針對整件事情，我們政府、衛福部有沒有任何的作為，可以保障民眾的就醫權利？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:33:28.718000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:33:30.140000+08:00","text":"請次長回應。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-05-22T14:33:30.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:33:46.138000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，先跟委員說明，愛爾麗或這些相關的連鎖集團，用課程的方式來做預購，甚至做優惠，已經違反醫療法，因為在醫療法裡面，醫療行為不可以廣告，不可以用預售的方式。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:33:46.138000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:33:47.138000+08:00","text":"這個部分後續要怎麼處理？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-05-22T14:33:46.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:01.470000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分是違反醫療法，後續我們會用醫療法來罰，也就是它用課程的方式來規避它是醫療行為，這個部分等於是它不能把醫療行為拿來作為商業行為。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:01.470000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:02.470000+08:00","text":"它誘導民眾簽放棄權利同意書這個部分呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:01.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:06.454000+08:00","text":"這個不行，也就是它原先就已經違反醫療法了，它用課程的方式販賣是違法的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:06.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:18.122000+08:00","text":"拜託次長，你剛剛都說得很清楚，我收到的這些陳情，我相信你也有看到，我覺得你應該更具體地把它公告清楚，讓民眾知道，這是第一點。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:18.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:28.629000+08:00","text":"第二點，針對這整件事情，我接下來要跟院長討論的是針孔攝影機的管理，我們到底還有什麼事情可以做？","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:29.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:46.302000+08:00","text":"院長，從去年6月臺北市政府就有來公文跟你陳情，當時行政院秘書長就有回應針孔攝影機實名制的管理，你們當時回應臺北市政府的是我們不需要管理，不需要相關法規來管理，當時有三個藉口。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:46.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:52.687000+08:00","text":"第一個，日本、韓國都沒有禁止，而且更擔心的是合法用途會被影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:52.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:34:57.150000+08:00","text":"第三個回應是說，這是使用者違法，不關器材的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:34:58.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:07.258000+08:00","text":"這個聽在今天事後發生這一連串醫美診所用針孔攝影機的偷拍事件，我覺得民眾恐怕是不能接受。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:08.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:15.179000+08:00","text":"事實上，日本、韓國的電商早就已經把偽裝式的偷拍攝影機下架，這不是密錄器喔！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:15.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:17.720000+08:00","text":"這不是一般我們看到的監視器喔！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:17.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:21.640000+08:00","text":"這是偽裝式的攝影機，什麼樣的人會用偽裝式的攝影機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:25.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:30.485000+08:00","text":"即便是警察，民眾有問題，他用密錄器拍，還要說：我現在在用密錄器。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:30.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:31.206000+08:00","text":"這還不是偽裝喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:31.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:35.009000+08:00","text":"我們看一下投影片，什麼叫偽裝攝影機？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:35.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:45.538000+08:00","text":"放在火災感應器裡面，衛生紙裡面偷放一個攝影機，甚至在筆裡面也可以放針孔攝影機。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:45.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:50.362000+08:00","text":"院長，什麼樣的人會需要使用偷拍攝影機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:50.362000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:51.362000+08:00","text":"委員，我先……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:50.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:54.425000+08:00","text":"我們難道不應該實名制做一些管理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:54.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:55.425000+08:00","text":"我想澄清一件事情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:54.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:35:58.628000+08:00","text":"更何況日本、韓國都已經下架，就是說平臺不可以販賣。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:35:58.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:17.876000+08:00","text":"去年市政府來函，行政院的回復從來沒有在裡面說這個事情我們不用管，從來沒有這樣講，我們是講述很多的情境，主要這個查察、巡查在地方政府，我們在回復當中是說，地方政府如果有發現在執行上要必須加強的，可以來處理……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:17.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:19.577000+08:00","text":"院長，我不想再跟你講去年……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:19.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:20.577000+08:00","text":"不是，你剛剛說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:20.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:23.258000+08:00","text":"因為這整件事情，我們非常清楚，就是說針孔攝影機這件事件……","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:23.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:25.098000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛你說行政院去函說不必管，這件事情不是真的。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:27.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:41.183000+08:00","text":"好，那麼對這些事情，我們對隱匿的這些器材，包括從來源取得，他經過實體或是平臺上去取得，都必須要再做加強管理，尤其是……","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:41.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:43.384000+08:00","text":"所以你也同意實名制囉？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:43.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:44.484000+08:00","text":"你也同意接下來要實名制囉？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:44.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:47.585000+08:00","text":"實名制是否可實行，我們還要再研究，但是如果在平臺上面買……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:47.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:36:48.446000+08:00","text":"還要研究多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:36:48.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:01.292000+08:00","text":"在我看來，院長，我是女性，在我看來，這整件事情我們非常清楚知道臺北市政府出這個公文的意義是什麼，那你的藉口……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:01.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:02.292000+08:00","text":"如果這些……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:01.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:02.053000+08:00","text":"你的藉口也就算了。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:02.053000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:04.454000+08:00","text":"什麼藉口？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:04.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:06.535000+08:00","text":"在我民眾看來，這整件事情，從爆發醫美診所……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:06.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:07.176000+08:00","text":"我是在答復你行政院的公文，不是藉口！","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:07.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:08.176000+08:00","text":"部長，我沒有要跟你吵架。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:08.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:09.176000+08:00","text":"不是藉口！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:09.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:10.176000+08:00","text":"在我看來，你的公文我認為是藉口，沒關係，你有你的說法，我尊重。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:10.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:11.176000+08:00","text":"可以把公文拿出來看啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:11.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:12.176000+08:00","text":"但是爆發醫美診所偷拍事件，這整件事情已經擺爛一年，好，院長你現在回復說：好，我們可以討論未來要實名制的管理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:12.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:13.176000+08:00","text":"那什麼時候會有結果？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:10.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:33.581000+08:00","text":"我先補充報告委員，爆發這個醫美診所偷拍的事件之後，我們立刻在第一時間就已經請地方去查，沒有擺爛一年。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:33.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:54.978000+08:00","text":"你不用回答我這件事情，我請問，未來平臺上我沒有說不可以販賣，我說實名制登記要買，實名制登記，當爆發事情的時候，我們可以回溯去追到底是誰，買十字弓現在都要實名制登記，難道買偷拍攝影機、偽裝攝影機這件事情，我們不該用實名制登記嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:54.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:57.240000+08:00","text":"攝影器材本身並不是違法品……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:57.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:37:58.321000+08:00","text":"我現在講的是偽裝式的，院長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:37:59.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:02.644000+08:00","text":"所以我們對這些設備要先給定義，什麼樣的設備……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:02.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:03.945000+08:00","text":"我同意，但是這個定義並不難。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:05.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:13.372000+08:00","text":"前兩天行政院張秘書長已經開過相關的會，我們從行為面、設備面、法規面，以及……都有在處理。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:13.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:15.354000+08:00","text":"沒關係，院長，我同意，還要再多久？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:15.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:16.215000+08:00","text":"院長，還要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:16.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:17.456000+08:00","text":"要再多久？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:19.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:25.161000+08:00","text":"去年市政府來函給行政院之後，快一年了，市政府也沒有任何進展，那我們現在已經馬上在做了……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:25.161000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:26.161000+08:00","text":"法規在中央，院長，沒關係，你現在告訴我，你們研究要研究多久，因為現在很多女性去醫美診所都害怕。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:26.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:29.127000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們對現在數百個個案已經告發的，告發人有數百位，個案我們嚴格地來查察，請地方政府來配合。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:43.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:46.498000+08:00","text":"第二個，各個場域都有相關的法規可以管……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:46.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:38:56.245000+08:00","text":"院長，我只問你，要買這些偽裝式的針孔攝影機，能不能要求實名制？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:38:56.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:11.056000+08:00","text":"設備而言，我們先定義哪一種設備需要實名，如果平臺上面買到的，從境外來的，當然要實名制，如果他經過我們的海關進來，該管理的設備進到廠商，店家當然要實名。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:12.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:22.768000+08:00","text":"沒關係，院長，我的時間只有15分鐘，海外的、國內的偽裝式的攝影機，我們什麼時候才能實名制登記，可不可以給我答復？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:23.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:25.250000+08:00","text":"我們正在研究，最快的時間。多久？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:25.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:29.775000+08:00","text":"我們研究出一個方式，我們要管理到店家要實名制，這個是要一套規則的。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:30.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:34.440000+08:00","text":"沒關係，你只要一個口令下去，他們就是要做，大概要多久？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:35.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:37.741000+08:00","text":"因為媒體需要答案，國人也需要一個答復。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:39.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:41.062000+08:00","text":"媒體需要答復，我們需要把整個制度弄好，我會跟各位講。多久？","quality":0.48},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:41.062000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:42.062000+08:00","text":"沒關係，院長，還要等多久？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:41.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:41.662000+08:00","text":"我想很快的時間……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:41.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:42.662000+08:00","text":"很快，答不出來喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:41.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:42.342000+08:00","text":"我會跟張秘書長研究，各部會在開會之後……","quality":0.353},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:42.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:43.342000+08:00","text":"我就跟你講國人有時候就醫……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:43.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:44.342000+08:00","text":"沒有，開會之後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:44.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:45.342000+08:00","text":"女性到某些場所就會有恐懼……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:45.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:46.342000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有、沒有，開會之後，我們都要求兩個禮拜回報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:46.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:47.342000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，院長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-05-22T14:39:42.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:39:43.943000+08:00","text":"醫療院所就是不可以偷拍，我們不會容忍。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:04.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:05.412000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我現在就只是要……","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:05.412000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:06.412000+08:00","text":"用手機也不行啊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:05.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:18.440000+08:00","text":"院長，我只是要防止有些人拿偽裝攝影機，當他犯罪的時候，我們可以回溯這到底是誰買的，警察也可以追得到，不像現在找不到人嘛。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:19.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:22.642000+08:00","text":"你現在回答不出來我的問題，那沒關係，就是……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:22.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:28.866000+08:00","text":"我們開會都有請各部會兩個禮拜內要回復他們調查的結果，訂定一套可行的制度出來。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:30.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:32.234000+08:00","text":"所以可行的制度還要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:32.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:32.994000+08:00","text":"還是不知道就對了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:33.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:35.375000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，我尊重院長，這也是一個答案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:35.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:39.997000+08:00","text":"各單位回來，我們還要研究啊，我不能在這裡急就章跟你講一個大家做不到的事情，我們已經要求速速來辦理這個事情。","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:40.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:46.799000+08:00","text":"沒關係，院長，我只是很遺憾，我身為女性會擔憂，身旁的朋友也會擔心，有關醫美診所的這種事件，民眾現在看到的，你們還是沒有答案。","quality":0.537},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:46.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:40:49.020000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，我問下一個問題，次長，你請回。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:40:50.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:41:50.905000+08:00","text":"院長，針對霸凌案的事件，我先把法律講清楚，今年1月9號公務人員保障法已經開始實施，顏慧欣副代表在2月19號已經提出辭職信，當時如果有機關知道這是霸凌事件的話，按照公務人員保障法，因為在＃MeToo事件之後，一連串包含之前發生的勞動部的事件，也就是公務人員相關的霸凌事件，但這樣的事件，在公務機關、民間機關，我們都是不允許的，我們也認為機關按照法規，應該採取立即有效的糾正跟補救措施，行為人涉嫌案件情節重大的話，就必須要先調整職務，這是法規寫得清清楚楚的，而且這是在勞動部發生事件之後，我們1月9號在公務人員保障法就寫得很清楚。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:41:52.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:42:06.469000+08:00","text":"當時外部調查小組就建議楊珍妮政委要請假，或是依規定應該要請假，後來楊珍妮也回應說：好，我依規定適度辦理。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:42:07.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:42:37.288000+08:00","text":"我現在先請勞動部部長上來，這個如果發生在民間，因為職安法在今年7月1號就要上路，這件事情如果發生在民營機關，依照法規，我們要求應該要有一些有效措施或補正措施，所以應該要請假，他也回應依規定辦理，部長，你可以接受嗎？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:42:37.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:42:52.058000+08:00","text":"如果在民間的職場有這樣的案子發生、有霸凌事件發生，依據職安法，我們要求要請假，涉嫌霸凌的人說：我依規定辦理、我會適度辦理。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:42:53.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:42:56.861000+08:00","text":"但到最後卻沒有任何作為，這個答案你可以接受嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:42:59.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:42:59.762000+08:00","text":"你現在的答案……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:01.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:43:02.864000+08:00","text":"他不是說他依規定辦理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:02.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:43:03.344000+08:00","text":"依什麼規定辦理？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:03.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:43:06.666000+08:00","text":"他沒有任何作為，他還是在職位上啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:07.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:43:24.154000+08:00","text":"按道理說，如果有霸凌事件發生，他應該先調離現職，讓涉嫌霸凌者跟受霸凌人要稍微分開一下，這是我們當時立職安法這個法的主要精神所在嘛。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:24.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:43:34.670000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，當然調離是一種方法，但基本上是希望潛在的、接受調查的是分開，不見得一定只有調離。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:34.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:43:37.292000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:37.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:43:57.769000+08:00","text":"院長，在這個過程當中，其實楊政委從來沒有離開原本的位子，也沒有分開過，所以這個霸凌事件就一直在發生，剛才部長也解釋得很清楚，依據職安法，不管是不是調離現職，就是要稍微分開一下，要求他請假幾天，或讓這兩個人分開。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:43:57.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:44:03.812000+08:00","text":"不一定只有調離現職這個做法，而是讓他們在業務上面的互動……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:44:03.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:44:06.373000+08:00","text":"減少互動或者是切割開來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:44:06.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:44:09.555000+08:00","text":"對，不會那麼緊密，可是不是只有調離這個做法。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:44:09.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:44:50.699000+08:00","text":"委員，三件事情報告，外部委員的建議是建議楊珍妮政委請假，並沒有直接請他調離，他也適度地請假，第一個，他適度請假，減少上班工作的時間，他有適度請假；第二，他沒有去影響或是阻礙任何調查過程；第三，這是最重要的，楊珍妮政委現在人在中國，在江蘇參加APEC相關會議，前面這兩個禮拜，他還是有一些必須為這個國際性會議準備的事項，所以他降低到最小的工作量能，維持最小的工作程度，絕對沒有去影響任何書面或實體調查。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:44:50.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:06.046000+08:00","text":"我這樣聽起來，院長，其實霸凌事件你早就聽說了，在他辭職之前你早就聽說，這是另外一件事，這不是我今天……我今天其實有很多重點要問，我認為這整件事情院長你早就知悉，按照道理說，機關最高的……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:06.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:16.169000+08:00","text":"當我看到顏副總代表的辭職信，那個時候我們在想如何了解，第一個，那是過年前、農曆年前；第二，他人在生病當中……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:17.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:18.489000+08:00","text":"院長，這麼重要的職位……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:18.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:21.150000+08:00","text":"我們沒辦法當場去了解他所說的內容。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:22.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:36.575000+08:00","text":"院長，這麼重要的人、這麼重要的位階，我相信副院長也一定都非常清楚，我非常遺憾的是，我們既然已經有公務人員保障法，但是整個霸凌事件在公部門卻是這樣的處理態度！","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:37.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:40.719000+08:00","text":"為什麼我剛剛要問勞動部部長，今年7月1號……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:40.719000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:41.719000+08:00","text":"你也聽到，他的信中內容是說他都沒有向我們提起……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:40.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:41.499000+08:00","text":"我們的職安法就要上路，我們就要上路……","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:41.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:45:54.288000+08:00","text":"他的辭職信裡面講到他都沒有向我們提起，但是那個辭職信我們看到了，當時是過年前，他人在生病當中，第一時間我當然無法馬上去跟他談。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:45:54.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:06.615000+08:00","text":"院長，這個霸凌事件發生的時候，我不相信在同一個職場周遭這一圈、第二圈的人都沒有聽說，這件事對我來說，我覺得不可置信！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:07.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:08.096000+08:00","text":"那我們去了解真相。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:08.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:21.885000+08:00","text":"沒關係，因為這件事情在調查當中，但是院長，保訓會說2個月之內就要完成調查，那我請問5月27號保訓會就該有一個結果，到底會不會有結果出來，還是還要再延？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:22.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:26.248000+08:00","text":"依規定可以再延長一定的時間，因為他現在人在……","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:26.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:27.328000+08:00","text":"這麼單純的案子還要再延長1個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:27.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:29.069000+08:00","text":"他人在參加APEC會議。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:29.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:33.200000+08:00","text":"委員，請您將心比心，國家重要的會議他去參加……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:33.200000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:34.200000+08:00","text":"國家重要的會議當然很重要，但應該不影響……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:33.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:35.661000+08:00","text":"等他回來就會再進一步的說明，這樣難道不行嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:35.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:35.901000+08:00","text":"為國家一個公務員在外面這樣努力，還要在這裡用這種方式……","quality":0.32},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:36.401000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:37.829571+08:00","text":"不需要動怒！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:38.129571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:40.415286+08:00","text":"這種調查事件其實……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:40.715286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:42.429571+08:00","text":"你要將心比心！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:42.729571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:46.729571+08:00","text":"國家重要的事件本來就應該調查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:47.029571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:51.029571+08:00","text":"好啊，等他回來我們就會調查清楚。","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:51.329571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:46:57.615286+08:00","text":"但是針對霸凌事件，這也是你主管機關應該做的事情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:46:57.915286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:01.058143+08:00","text":"是，等他回來就會調查清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:01.358143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:07.929571+08:00","text":"不需要動怒，你不需要跟我動怒嘛，這是你應該做的職責！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:08.229571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:15.372429+08:00","text":"不需要在這裡用這樣的方式阻礙一個公務員在外面的努力！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:15.672429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:22.815286+08:00","text":"謝謝李彥秀委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","quality":0.08},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:23.115286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:25.115286+08:00","text":"沒關係、沒關係，好。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}