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太激烈了接下來我們請李昆哲委員質詢萊斯堡委員請準備謝謝韓院長 請下行政院卓院長還有勞動部洪森漢部長我們請卓院長 勞動部長備詢"},{"start":63.214,"end":71.428,"text":"謝謝卓院長我們今天要針對勞工相關的退休的基本保障的提升不管是勞保以及勞退那"},{"start":72.805,"end":88.777,"text":"首先要肯定卓院長我們在勞保的撥補我們在2020年蘇貞昌院長踏出了第一步撥補200億然後逐年的增加尤其是在卓榮泰院長在2025年跟2026年分別撥補了1300億讓整個撥補的金額已經達到5170億"},{"start":98.203,"end":117.853,"text":"那我要特別謝謝我們除了實質的撥補之外也在卓院長的支持之下我們將政府的撥補跟國家最終支付責任明文入法在勞保條例提出的修正也已經三讀通過那對於勞工來說"},{"start":120.118,"end":145.116,"text":"實質的撥補跟國家最終支付責任的實質入法 明文入法其實就是勞工的安心條款那我首先要先請教一下左院長有一個台鐵的問題台鐵 左院長長久就要求台鐵公司安全必須要提升服務要有相關的效率"},{"start":145.578,"end":172.085,"text":"而且要永續的經營但是我們來看台鐵的基層主管他的缺額非常的嚴重那我看二三等站以及業務單位的主任服務的站的主任其實他的缺額高達三成這是基層重要的主管那為什麼他們"},{"start":173.072,"end":187.076,"text":"缺口這麼嚴重院長因為工作時間長而且待遇不夠高另外壓力也非常的大所以一般的這些主管他們有機會擔任就"},{"start":189.55,"end":212.365,"text":"調職的就想要調職調單位的就想要調單位能夠退休的就提早退休所以這個基層主管的缺額非常嚴重那現在交通部啊有將這個相關的業務就是相關的主管的業務加急啊提高了這個相關的方案有送到行政院來就是啊"},{"start":213.086,"end":237.615,"text":"台鐵主管的佳績必須要提高那它會影響到1600位的基層主管其中包含1450位科長以下的這些基層主管這關係到我們相關台鐵的安全效率以及永續經營這個方案我不曉得院長的看法是如何"},{"start":238.26,"end":254.706,"text":"我非常了解這個事情這兩天不是兩天這一個禮拜以來我們一直在跟台鐵相關方面在研討這個事情對於台鐵同仁員工在很長的時間肩負國家運輸功能的付出我們都有肯定那因為現在除了台鐵"},{"start":255.686,"end":270.809,"text":"提出這個主管加級之外我們還有其他相類似的一些案子就人事的部分的檢討我們還在進行當中所以我跟人事總署是談好說我們能不能一併來檢討所有公務人員相關的法規能不能做一次的討論"},{"start":271.73,"end":287.402,"text":"如何讓所有公務人員你當任主管的你負了更大的責任你必須要有更多福利上以及待遇上的照顧這樣讓他成為一個很合理的均衡的狀態我們做全面性的考量所以稍微在慈悟一點之間必須要"},{"start":288.183,"end":301.282,"text":"在基層的這些主管缺額嚴重之下我們必須要調高他的相關的待遇讓他的責任跟他的待遇是相符合而且能夠提升我們整個"},{"start":302.128,"end":323.94,"text":"工作的一個質量的一個提升這是必須要提升院長基本上也是同意但是現在就是要整體的一個檢討來向社會勞工我們非常感謝這個軍公校同仁以及全國的勞工朋友們長時間為國家的經濟跟國家的政策在做這種貢獻我們一定做一個全盤的考量"},{"start":324.44,"end":351.985,"text":"好 那這個我們必須要加緊我們相關的行政作業那目前第二個問題就是我們勞退的救治在目前存救治的這些勞工全國大概還有11萬人分別在1萬6千個相關的事業的單位那勞退救治的勞工他們當年雖然有5年的這樣的一個選擇期但是因為時代的變遷"},{"start":353.127,"end":367.795,"text":"政府相關經濟的發展我們必須讓勞工的救赤有必須讓他的保障能夠得以提升所以我們現在很多勞工也希望能夠結清相關的救赤的年資"},{"start":368.755,"end":392.226,"text":"而且在勞資合一之下無需雇主相關的這些提撥率6%他們希望能夠結清相關的勞退救治的賬戶能夠開立新制的專戶能夠享受利息的這樣的一個優待這個部分我請教一下院長支不支持"},{"start":392.466,"end":406.954,"text":"好謝謝委員前不久洪部長也跟我討論過這個事情從台北雙北高雄還有其他幾個城市都有不等的這個退休的同仁們在討論這個事情那洪部長他有去處理過他現在也有一個想法是不是請部長來做說明"},{"start":408.255,"end":423.212,"text":"跟委員說明的確我們現在就是針對這些純救治大概十來萬十一萬左右的勞工目前我們在設計方案就是希望讓這些純救治的勞工可以把他目前累積的退休金那"},{"start":424.353,"end":452.239,"text":"有機會可以再新制開一個戶頭然後可以把它給結清存進去也包括開放他們自體那希望在這個做法之下可以讓他們享有政府來操刀這個基金投資累積的效益這樣子的好處那目前我們正在緊鑼密鼓的來規劃這個方案也包括做相關利害人的溝通加緊相關的行政流程對那我們會來競訴那只要有這個方案也有結果我們就趕快來跟大家報告"},{"start":453.159,"end":481.13,"text":"先請卓院長回到院長的位置我針對相關勞工政策的細節我要跟洪森漢部長來進行對話麻煩卓院長請回謝謝卓院長我請教一下洪森漢部長我們對於勞保的投保薪資這樣的一個天花板我認為也是必須要調整上一次的調整已經是2016年"},{"start":483.376,"end":494.868,"text":"那當時是43,900調升到45,800那我們必須要了解投保勞保的勞工到今年3月為止已經超過1,048萬人"},{"start":497.728,"end":524.869,"text":"那現在達到四萬五千八這個級距的勞工全國已經有三百八十萬人佔了投保勞保的百分之三十六那這樣的一個勞保月薪資的這樣的一個最高上限十年沒有調整他關係到兩個部分關係到勞保你退休之後的勤領的相關的差距第二就是就業保險"},{"start":526.058,"end":534.741,"text":"也會受到影響那我們這個投保的薪資的上限啊必須要調整我不曉得部長你現在有什麼規劃跟想法"},{"start":535.758,"end":561.532,"text":"跟委員說明的確我們知道其實各界都有在討論這個議題那就勞保的這個投保薪資的上限的問題我想我們也聽到各方的意見所以我們也願意來做整體性的思考不過的確因為勞保涉及到他的財務他的財務的挑戰其實確實比較大所以我們其實在思考這個問題的時候相對會比較審慎一點但剛剛委員其實也提到就業保險的部分"},{"start":561.732,"end":585.618,"text":"因為現在就業保險的投保薪資的天花板其實跟勞保是連動的所以我們目前正在評估也包括也在研擬方案未來是可以把舊保的投保薪資的上限跟勞保來脫鉤因為舊保目前比較沒有這個基金財務上面的問題只要能做的部分我們就願意先來做所以未來如果有機會可以把投保薪資上限給拉高的話"},{"start":586.659,"end":602.676,"text":"這對於不管是失業的保險失業給付或者是運營留庭的給付我想都可以在給付的金額上面再提高我想我們目前是希望朝這個方向能做的部分我們會先來做這樣我們當然我們會整體評估各種相關的效益"},{"start":604.093,"end":627.183,"text":"第一個我要提醒部長你提到說要思考然後要對話然後有在做相關的一個規劃那你必須要提出明確的時程第二你必須要提出明確的數據來跟勞工對話這是你必須在提出正式的方案之前你必須要提出相關的時程你有什麼具體的規劃嗎"},{"start":628.303,"end":642.993,"text":"我想我們可以來針對這個包括勞保投保薪資上限的問題來做各種情境幾種情境的評估尤其是財務上面的評估你必須要提出明確的視算表是那我說包括這個財務上面的評估"},{"start":644.474,"end":662.189,"text":"那我想這部分的確會需要來跟各個立案相關包括勞工包括僱主包括我們這個政府部門裡面相關的部會來做一個整體的對話這部分我們願意來把這樣的數據給提出來那相關的我們對於勞退薪資的提撥率增加"},{"start":662.91,"end":679.685,"text":"那在這段期間很多的工會尤其高雄的工會不管是產業工會相關大公司這些工會都提到我們對於提撥率勞退的僱主的強制提撥率這個6%是否也要必須來做調整這個6%是從2005年已經是20多年的這樣的一個沒有調整"},{"start":688.342,"end":716.875,"text":"我們必須要針對目前的產業以及經濟發展的成果也必須要讓勞工的保障得以提升才有意義那我們目前的這個6%從2005年到現在都沒有調整那我想部長你也一定接到很多工會的聲音就是說這樣的一個勞退的職方的強制提撥率必須要提升你有什麼基本的看法"},{"start":717.834,"end":738.788,"text":"跟文說沒有當然這段時間勞工朋友尤其是工會對於這樣子的期待我們當然是有聽到的那我認為我們會在一個大的方向我們當然希望來實質增加勞工的這個退休金的這個大的方向來做相關制度逐步的檢討我想這個態度我們是願意的"},{"start":739.528,"end":750.301,"text":"那當然這裡面可能會涉及到看有哪一些可以來往前推進的路徑但我想從勞工部的角度我們當然希望勞工整體的實質退休金能夠增加"},{"start":751.107,"end":769.35,"text":"那你目前有什麼具體的做法?你有跟工會相關的對話嗎?跟我的說明比方說就像剛才我們講到這個純救治的部分那這部分我們優先趕快來進行這部分那第二個退休金的提高包括現在大家也可能談到怎麼樣去鼓勵自體"},{"start":770.191,"end":799.154,"text":"的部分這也是其中的一種做法那我們也希望能夠針對部分來研擬一些方案那當然就像剛剛委員提到的那這個僱主提撥率的6%的提高的部分現在我也聽到各種不同的數字的聲音我想我們是願意來整體的評估那這裡面就像這一次五一的遊行其實主辦黨也希望說能夠讓勞資政之間能夠一些對話那我們對於這樣的對話是非常非常樂意來促成"},{"start":799.634,"end":815.042,"text":"各個不同利害相關方在這個議題上的對話因為這確實比較涉及到重大制度的改變我覺得可能會讓大家有一個互相對話互相理解彼此的期待那看看哪些部分有空間能不能往一個比較好的方向來進行我想這樣子的促成我們當然是很願意"},{"start":815.942,"end":840.774,"text":"洪部長你就任之後當然你有交出初步的一個成績單就是在勞保的實質撥補以及國家最重支付責任而且能夠讓他明文入法這對勞工來講是基本保障的一個提升勞工基本上大家對你的初步成績單是有肯定但是接下來你必須面臨更嚴峻的一個挑戰就是國家的產業經濟快速的發展"},{"start":844.156,"end":869.477,"text":"我們的經濟發展股票衝上4萬點但是我們的勞工他相關的權益他的一個提升步伐也必須要加緊他的腳步不能讓這個差距越來越大不管是勞退不管是救治不管是勞保的投保薪資你都必須要提出明確的數據明確的方案明確的時程表"},{"start":870.96,"end":896.939,"text":"這是你一個重要的工作讓你最後補充來做說明跟委員說明我們知道這其實是一個非常非常重大的任務的使命尤其是很多勞工朋友看到我們現在整體的經濟數字是很亮眼的可是也會時時來回頭看自己拿到的所得拿到的薪資的狀況所以我們其實現在也跟行政院甚至也包括跟經濟部目前也在討論能不能特別的來協助尤其是一些中小企業的勞工朋友那怎麼樣"},{"start":898.54,"end":919.111,"text":"這個在經濟發展的同時透過國家的協助能夠讓他們的勞動條件薪資能夠更加的提升讓這個經濟發展的果實更公平的分配到每一個勞工尤其是基層勞工身上我想這部分我們非常非常在意當然這裡面也包括有幾個制度包括像最低工資我想"},{"start":919.731,"end":934.461,"text":"逐年的提升這是我們也會努力來進行的事情但除了最低工資的調整以外我想我們現在也包括跟經濟部就像剛剛說的這部分我們會來努力我們也知道這是接下來執政團隊尤其是勞動部非常重要的使命"},{"start":934.881,"end":955.981,"text":"好那有關於最後時間也不多那我提一下有薪的產檢價跟有薪的賠產檢價這是2014年的時候是我提案的我認為婦女勞工上班族也必須跟女性的公務員一樣必須要有有薪的產檢價當初是五天我所提案的後來經過"},{"start":957.423,"end":967.198,"text":"大家對話協商是五天到2021年的時候我又提案又變成七天那我請教一下我們希望能夠規劃往十天的方向"},{"start":971.519,"end":972.7,"text":"好 介紹股市方案"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:46.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:47.092000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:47.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:50.034000+08:00","text":"不過院長好像忘了要叫我的名字上來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:51.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:54.617000+08:00","text":"抱歉，因為剛才上一位委員質詢太激烈了。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:54.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:47:59.619000+08:00","text":"接下來請李昆澤委員質詢，賴士葆委員請準備。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:47:59.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:48:00.660000+08:00","text":"謝謝韓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:48:00.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:48:01.660000+08:00","text":"「歹勢」、「歹勢」！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:48:00.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:48:05.302000+08:00","text":"請一下行政院卓院長還有勞動部洪申翰部長。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:48:06.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:48:07.624000+08:00","text":"麻煩請卓院長、勞動部長備詢。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:48:07.624000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T14:48:18.214000+08:00","text":"李委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:48:18.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:48:18.956000+08:00","text":"謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:48:18.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:48:43.777000+08:00","text":"我今天要針對勞工相關的退休基本保障提升，不管是勞保以及勞退，首先要肯定卓院長，在勞保撥補方面，2020年蘇貞昌院長踏出了第一步、撥補200億，然後逐年增加，尤其是卓榮泰院長在2025年跟2026年分別撥補1,300億，讓整個撥補金額已經達到5,170億。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:48:54.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:49:22.924000+08:00","text":"我要特別謝謝，除了實質撥補之外，也在卓院長的支持之下，我們將政府撥補跟國家最終支付責任明文入法，在勞保條例提出了修正、也已經三讀通過，對於勞工來說，實質撥補跟國家最終支付責任明文入法其實就是勞工的安心條款！","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:49:25.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:49:42.779000+08:00","text":"再來，要請教一下卓院長一個臺鐵的問題，卓院長長久以來要求臺鐵公司安全必須要提升、服務要有效率而且要永續經營。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:49:42.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:50:08.872000+08:00","text":"但是我們看到臺鐵基層主管的缺額非常嚴重，我看二、三等站以及業務單位服務站的主任缺額高達三成，這是基層重要的主管，為什麼缺額這麼嚴重？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:50:09.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:50:33.196000+08:00","text":"因為工作時間長，而且待遇不夠高，另外，壓力也非常大，所以一般的這些主管他們有機會擔任的，調職的就想要調職，調單位的就想要調單位，能夠退休的就提早退休，所以這個基層主管的缺額非常嚴重。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:50:34.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:51:12.595000+08:00","text":"現在交通部有將相關的主管業務加給提高的方案送到行政院來，就是臺鐵主管的加給必須要提高，它會影響到1,600位的基層主管，其中包含1,450位科長以下的這些基層主管，這關係到我們臺鐵的安全、效率以及永續經營，關於這個方案，我不曉得院長的看法是如何？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:51:13.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:52:02.282000+08:00","text":"我非常了解這個事情，這一個禮拜以來，我們一直在跟臺鐵相關方面研討這個事情，對於臺鐵同仁員工在很長的時間肩負國家運輸功能的付出，我們都予以肯定，但因為現在除了臺鐵提出的這個主管加給之外，我們還有其他相類似的一些案子，就人事部分的檢討，我們還在進行當中，所以我跟人事總處是談好我們能不能一併來檢討，所有公務人員相關的法規能不能做一次的討論，如何讓所有公務人員如擔任主管的，他負了更大的責任，必須要有更多在福利以及待遇上的照顧，讓它成為一個很合理、均衡的狀態，我們做全面性的考量，所以稍微再給我們一點時間。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:52:03.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:52:13.759000+08:00","text":"好，在基層的這些主管缺額嚴重之下，我們必須要調高他的相關待遇，讓他的責任跟他的待遇是相符合。是的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:52:14.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:52:27.914000+08:00","text":"而且能夠提升整個工作的質量，這是必須要提升，院長基本上也是同意，但現在就是要整體的檢討，來向社會、勞工公布……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:52:28.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:52:38.920000+08:00","text":"我們非常感謝軍公教同仁以及全國勞工朋友們，長時間為國家經濟跟國家政策所做出的貢獻，我們一定做一個全盤的考量。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:52:39.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:52:43.501000+08:00","text":"好，我們必須要加緊相關的行政作業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:52:44.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:52:57.683000+08:00","text":"第二個問題就是勞退的舊制，目前純舊制的勞工全國大概還有11萬人，分別在1萬6,000個相關的事業單位。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:52:59.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:53:47.206000+08:00","text":"勞退舊制的勞工當年雖然有五年的選擇期，但是因為時代的變遷，政府相關經濟的發展，我們必須讓勞工的舊制……必須讓他的保障能夠得以提升，所以現在很多勞工也希望能夠結清相關舊制的年資，而且在勞資合意之下，無須雇主相關的這些提撥率6%，他們希望能夠結清勞退舊制的帳戶，然後開立新制的專戶，能夠享受利息的優待，這個部分我請教一下院長支不支持？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-22T14:53:47.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:54:01.934000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，前不久洪部長也跟我討論過這個事情，從臺北、雙北、高雄還有其他幾個城市都有不等的退休同仁們在討論這個事情，洪部長有去處理過，他現在也有一個想法，是不是請部長來做說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:54:03.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:54:40.718000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，的確，我們針對這些純舊制、大概11萬左右的勞工，目前我們在設計方案，就是希望讓這些純舊制的勞工可以把他目前累積的退休金有機會在新制開一個戶頭，可以把它給結清存進去，也包括開放他們自提，希望在這個做法之下，可以讓他們享有政府來操刀的基金投資的累積效益這樣子的好處，目前我們正在緊鑼密鼓地來規劃這個方案，也包括做相關利害人的溝通……","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:54:41.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:54:43.038000+08:00","text":"好，加緊相關的行政流程。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:54:43.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:54:47.219000+08:00","text":"對，我們會儘速，只要這個方案一有結果，我們就趕快來跟大家報告。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:54:48.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:54:57.603000+08:00","text":"好，先請卓院長回到院長的位置，針對相關勞工政策的細節，我要跟洪申翰部長進行對話。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T14:54:57.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:54:58.743000+08:00","text":"麻煩卓院長請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:54:59.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:55:02.025000+08:00","text":"謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:55:02.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:55:20.678000+08:00","text":"我請教一下洪申翰部長，對於勞保投保薪資這樣的一個天花板，我認為必須要調整，上一次的調整已經是2016年，當時是4萬3,900元調升到4萬5,800元。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:55:23.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:55:41.755000+08:00","text":"我們必須要了解投保勞保的勞工，到今年3月為止已經超過1,048萬人，現在達到4萬5,800元級距的勞工在全國已經有380萬人，占了投保勞保的36%。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:55:46.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:56:02.582000+08:00","text":"勞保投保月薪資最高上限十年沒有調整，它關係到兩個部分，第一，退休之後請領勞保的相關差距；第二，就業保險也會受到影響。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:56:04.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:56:09.721000+08:00","text":"投保薪資上限必須要調整，我不曉得部長現在有什麼規劃跟想法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:56:10.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:56:23.945000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，的確我們知道各界都有在討論這個議題，就勞保投保薪資上限的問題，我們也聽到各方的意見，所以我們也願意做整體性的思考。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:56:24.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:56:34.111000+08:00","text":"不過的確因為勞保涉及到其財務的挑戰確實比較大，因此我們在思考這些問題的時候相對會比較審慎一點。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:56:34.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:57:09.928000+08:00","text":"但剛剛委員也提到就業保險的部分，因為現在就業保險投保薪資的天花板跟勞保是連動的，所以我們目前正在評估，也包括在研擬方案，未來是可以把就保投保薪資的上限跟勞保脫鉤，因為就保目前比較沒有基金財務上面的問題，只要能做的部分，我們就願意先來做，因此未來如果有機會可以把就保投保薪資上限給拉高的話，這對於不管是失業給付或是育嬰留停給付，我想都可以在給付金額上面再提高。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:57:10.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:57:17.656000+08:00","text":"我們目前是希望朝這個方向，能做的部分我們會先來做，當然我們會整體評估各種相關的效益。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:57:19.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:57:42.183000+08:00","text":"我要提醒部長，第一個，你提到要思考、要對話，有在做相關的規劃，你必須要提出明確的時程；第二個，你必須要提出明確的數據來跟勞工對話，你提出正式方案前必須要提出相關的時程，你有什麼具體的規劃嗎？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:57:43.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:57:53.750000+08:00","text":"我們可以針對勞保投保薪資上限的問題做幾種情境的評估，尤其是財務上面的評估。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:57:54.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:57:56.132000+08:00","text":"你必須要提出明確的試算表。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:57:56.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:58:13.646000+08:00","text":"是，我說包括財務上面的評估，我想這部分的確會需要跟各個利害相關者包括勞工、雇主及政府部門相關部會做一個整體的對話，我們願意把這樣的數據提出來。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:58:13.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:58:33.964000+08:00","text":"針對相關的，我們對於勞退新制的提撥率增加，這段期間很多的工會，尤其是高雄的工會，不管是產業工會或相關大公司的工會都提到，我們對於勞退的雇主強制提撥率6%是否必須做調整？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:58:33.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:58:54.467000+08:00","text":"這個6%從2005年到現在已經二十多年沒有做調整，我們必須針對目前的產業以及經濟發展的成果，也必須要讓勞工的保障得以提升才有意義。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:58:54.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:59:11.855000+08:00","text":"目前的6%從2005年到現在都沒有調整，我想部長也一定接到很多工會的聲音，也就是勞退的資方強制提撥率必須要提升，你有什麼基本的看法？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:59:12.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:59:33.768000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，這段時間勞工朋友，尤其是工會，對於這樣子的期待我們當然是有聽到的，我認為我們會在一個大的方向，我們當然希望以實質增加勞工退休金的大方向來做相關制度的逐步檢討，我想這個態度我們是願意的。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:59:35.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:59:45.281000+08:00","text":"當然這裡面可能會涉及到有哪一些可以往前推進的路徑，但是從勞動部的角度，我們當然希望勞工整體的實質退休金能夠增加。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:59:46.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:59:47.709000+08:00","text":"你目前有什麼具體的做法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T14:59:47.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:59:51.354000+08:00","text":"你跟工會在勞退提撥率上有相關的對話嗎？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:59:51.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T14:59:57.501000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，比方說剛才我們講到純舊制的部分，這部分我們會優先趕快來進行。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T14:59:58.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:00:22.645000+08:00","text":"第二個，提高退休金的部分，包括現在大家談到怎麼樣去鼓勵自提，這也是其中的一種做法，我們也希望能夠針對這部分來研擬一些方案，當然就像剛才委員提到的，雇主提撥率6%提高的部分，現在我也聽到各種不同數字的聲音，我們願意來整體評估。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T15:00:23.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:00:50.022000+08:00","text":"這裡面就像這一次的五一遊行，其實主辦單位也希望能夠讓勞資政之間有一些對話，我們是非常非常樂意來促成各個不同利害相關方在這個議題上的對話，因為這確實涉及到重大制度的改變，我覺得可能會讓大家有一個互相對話、互相理解彼此的期待，看看哪些部分有空間，能不能往一個比較好的方向來進行，我想這樣子的促成我們當然是很願意。好。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:00:50.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:01:10.592000+08:00","text":"洪部長，你就任之後，當然你有交出初步的成績單，就是勞保的實質撥補以及國家最終支付責任，而且能夠讓它明文入法，這對勞工來講是基本保障的提升，基本上勞工對你的初步成績單是肯定的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:01:10.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:01:47.060000+08:00","text":"但是接下來你必須面臨更嚴峻的挑戰，國家的產業、經濟快速地發展，股票衝上4萬點，但是我們勞工相關的權益和提升，也必須要加緊腳步，不能讓這個差距越來越大，不管是勞退舊制、勞保的投保薪資，你都必須要提出明確的數據、方案及時程表，這是你重要的工作。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:01:47.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:01:49.022000+08:00","text":"最後讓你來補充說明。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T15:01:49.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:02:30.729000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們知道，這其實是一個非常非常重大的任務、使命，尤其是很多勞工朋友看到我們現在整體的經濟數字是很亮眼的，可是也會時時回頭來看自己拿到的所得、薪資的狀況，所以我們其實現在跟行政院，甚至跟經濟部也在討論，看能不能特別地來協助，尤其是一些中小企業的勞工朋友，怎麼在經濟發展的同時透過國家的協助，能夠讓他們的勞動條件、薪資更加地提升，讓經濟發展的果實能更公平地分配到每一個勞工，尤其是基層勞工身上，這部分我們非常非常在意。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T15:02:31.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:02:49.441000+08:00","text":"當然，這裡面也包括幾個制度，像最低工資逐年提升，這是我們會努力來進行的事情，但除了最低工資的調升以外，我們現在跟經濟部，就像剛剛說的，這部分我們會來努力，我們也知道這是接下來執政團隊，尤其是勞動部非常重要的使命。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:02:49.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:08.659000+08:00","text":"好，最後時間也不多了，我提一下有薪的產檢假跟有薪的陪產檢假，這個是我2014年的時候提案的，我認為婦女、勞工、上班族也必須跟女性的公務員一樣，必須要有有薪的產檢假。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:08.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:14.085000+08:00","text":"當初我所提案的是5天，後來經過大家對話、協商是5天。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:14.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:17.751000+08:00","text":"到2021年的時候我又提案，又變成7天。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:18.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:22.178000+08:00","text":"我請教一下，我們希望能夠規劃往10天的方向……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:22.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:26.519000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，目前不管是產檢假或陪產檢假，我們都希望能夠把天數延長，尤其一定是有薪的，甚至這個薪資我們是希望由政府支持來支付相關的薪資，也減少企業的負擔，讓勞資可以雙贏，我想這是我們的方向。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:26.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:27.680000+08:00","text":"好，儘早提出方案，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:28.180000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:29.180000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:29.480000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:35.194286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝李昆澤委員的質詢，也謝謝勞動部長備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:35.494286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:44.922857+08:00","text":"報告院會，在議場二樓旁聽的是來自於臺北市金華國中的同學們，我們掌聲歡迎！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-22T15:03:45.222857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-22T15:03:50.651429+08:00","text":"接下來請賴士葆委員質詢，王世堅委員請準備。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}