{"error":false,"id":["169602"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169602,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169602","日期":"2026-05-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-25T10:25:17+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-25T10:35:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fad20b8d851f264d0ee2302cb5ce5bbe6c3057ea1a5ec31e749b57a584ccd1598a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"10:25:17 - 10:35:16","會議時間":"2026-05-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍、國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「美中元首峰會後地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全之衝擊評估與因應」，併請大陸委員會列席，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.41471875,"end":2.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.8997187500000003,"end":3.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.418468750000001,"end":5.549093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.004093750000003,"end":11.438468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.67471875,"end":33.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.71034375,"end":26.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.08471875,"end":46.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.369718750000004,"end":53.963468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.204093750000006,"end":53.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.98034375,"end":54.064718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.064718750000004,"end":76.00221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.72596875000001,"end":62.04659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.04659375000001,"end":62.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.51846875000001,"end":66.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.82159375,"end":71.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.01096875,"end":74.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.09096875,"end":80.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.94659375,"end":95.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.27784375,"end":111.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.15909375000001,"end":98.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.42284375000001,"end":142.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.74284375,"end":116.26596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.18471875,"end":123.67409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.28346875,"end":139.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.50659375,"end":146.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.59471875,"end":152.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.41284375,"end":148.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.08346875,"end":172.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.78721875000002,"end":156.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.40909375,"end":214.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.14909375000002,"end":189.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.84471875,"end":193.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.22346875000002,"end":200.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.74471875,"end":211.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.19159375,"end":218.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.44409375,"end":218.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.98409375000003,"end":231.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.64534375000002,"end":227.42159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.98659375000003,"end":230.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.99909375000001,"end":265.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.48159375,"end":248.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.94346875,"end":263.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.07409375000003,"end":275.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.50846875,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.31409375000004,"end":267.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.24596875000003,"end":272.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.53971875,"end":314.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.49221875,"end":324.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.84096875,"end":337.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.07096875,"end":348.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.79971875,"end":345.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.12846875,"end":348.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.48284375000003,"end":360.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":360.39659375,"end":360.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.41346875000005,"end":362.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.67471875,"end":366.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.57284375,"end":373.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.76159375000003,"end":376.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.51221875000005,"end":379.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.92096875000004,"end":382.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.31721875000005,"end":386.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.11409375000005,"end":387.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.02096875,"end":390.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.06284375,"end":390.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.09659375,"end":393.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.11346875000004,"end":390.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.58534375000005,"end":404.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.40659375,"end":404.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.45721875000004,"end":404.4740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有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長"},{"start":10.609,"end":34.587,"text":"局長早我想今天主要聚焦在川習會早上拿到了今天的專報的書面報告在專報的書面報告的第二頁裡面我看到有國安局做了一個表格我就從這幾個表格你們區分了幾個構面來跟局長就教第二頁那個部分第一個就是兩國關係看起來"},{"start":37.489,"end":53.48,"text":"兩國所發表聲明看起來都是他們要建立一個穩定的戰略關係看起來是一致的不過在報告裡面 局長看到裡面我們的內容上看起來好像我們現在持的觀念還是他們的競爭態勢不變是不是局長可以論述一下"},{"start":54.901,"end":76.067,"text":"基本上他們雙邊的戰略的競爭關係我想上次的專報也跟委員說明過啦錯綜複雜不過雙方也有意來管理這樣的一個爭議避免衝突的全面化跟升高所以委員可以看到在這一次的川習會因為是今年度的第一次的川習會雙方有點像是在做一個輕喉嚨的動作來闡述彼此關切的對台灣來說會有什麼樣的影響就是他們這樣子的一個戰略關係"},{"start":80.987,"end":97.332,"text":"對我想大概有幾個部分第一個部分是有涉及到一些經貿投資工業院的議題那這一塊目前看起來美國的政策立場並沒有改變還是比較主張對一些高科技產品的一個管制到中國大陸去所以局長剛剛說這個表格的第二項"},{"start":98.433,"end":110.587,"text":"因為康美你們的康美好像也是覺得他們那個經貿成果不如預期不過看起來那個樹木包含波音還有一些農產品我不知道這個會不會影響到台美關係甚至我們這次的一個軍購"},{"start":111.762,"end":125.966,"text":"這還好 這最後還是涉及到美中雙邊的一個經貿議題的一個討論那我們會認為不如預期是事實上事前的研判美方是期待中共對於美國的波音科技採購可以到600架但後來只有200架而且這200架還是經過一個討價還價的一個過程那另外美國的一些高科技的企業到中國去這一次隨團到中國訪問那也沒有達成一個比較具體的合作計畫"},{"start":135.529,"end":151.085,"text":"所以我們認為說在經貿上雖然雙方親厚容不斷的表達彼此的關切但達成的具體的成果是比較有限所以局長覺得這個應該對台北的關係來說對目前衝擊沒有那麼大不過上次有跟委員說明過因為今天還有後續的川系會所以我們還要再繼續來觀察"},{"start":153.287,"end":169.614,"text":"在地緣關係的一個構面裡面,其實有看到這個赫普斯,很多人非常關切就是說不曉得這個赫普斯海峽現在的一個狀況,會不會影響到中美甚至台美相關的一些關係也就是很多人擔心是不是這個赫普斯海峽這個問題會變成一個談判的籌碼這樣子"},{"start":172.615,"end":199.497,"text":"對在這個問題上因為美國跟伊朗部分他透過巴基斯坦的一個溝通各種的一個停戰或談判的方案都能夠持續的來進行相關書面的討論那另外中共在美國對於伊朗的問題立場並不太一樣剛剛在專報的口頭報告過程當中也說明了中俄他在這一次普丁訪問中國的期間他是去公開批評美國跟以色列對伊朗傭兵的一個動作認為是違反國際法"},{"start":200.618,"end":218.07,"text":"所以我們可以看到美中在這個議題上目前並沒有一個一致的立場而美國也積極的在管理目前荷姆茲海峽航運安全的問題所以可能委員注意到昨天包括川普總統本人跟國務卿盧比歐都有認為說目前的談判已經進入到最後的階段那最後一個就那個表格上的涉台的部分"},{"start":219.271,"end":244.443,"text":"這個非常特別,大家看到川普總統出來在媒體或媒體裡面講了一堆可是他在他的聲明裡面並沒有看到這個我想非常多國人非常關心不曉得局長怎麼看這件事情我想我們會特別把美中官方聲明做一個對照最主要是白宮方面針對這次會談他的事實清單整理出來的相關的主要的重點跟中共的外交部跟商務部他新屋島整理出來的重點"},{"start":245.023,"end":274.284,"text":"那我想官方的一個聲明應該是最清楚的因為用字是最精準的那我一開始也跟其他委員在做說明這一次的川習會訊息非常的分雜那怎麼樣來釐清哪一些是官方長期的政策哪一些是外交指令用哪一些是川普總統在受訪時候臨時脫稿的演出那這部分我們會來做一個完整的評估所以還是請局長這個密切的觀察甚至二次的川習會的部分都要密切的觀察這樣的狀況感謝局長那是不是請外交部的林部長"},{"start":282.487,"end":298.174,"text":"所以這個川崎會其實我覺得國人都非常關注這個議題所以我想上禮拜的院會,他們就提了一個案子就是希望外交部跟國防部這邊能夠呼籲美方克遵台灣關係法、三個聯合公報還有六項保證的部分"},{"start":299.895,"end":314.035,"text":"當天看起來朝野一致都支持另外我們也希望美國能夠履行出售我們軍售的部分不知道部長怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":315.66,"end":332.898,"text":"就是委員是指均全部啦就是因為這一次有談到一些好像已經脫離了過去的六項保證很多人在講嘛對對對那部長怎麼看這件事我想不管是美國這個在川習會之後的事實清單或者是說他們包括"},{"start":333.999,"end":359.847,"text":"Marco Rubio這個國務院還有相關的官員的發言其實相當一致就是對台政策沒有改變那當然有提到說因為習近平有去提對台軍售其實也暴露了習近平有求於美國嘛那當然可能這個川普總統也可能會感覺到這個問題確實是對中國來講他很重視的問題可是他也表現他沒有改變任何對台灣的承諾這個是"},{"start":362.788,"end":387.368,"text":"我們最重要的這一次川習會大概在我想在高層的互動上面習近平很重視對台軍售那川普聽到了那麼後續因為第二批的軍售還在處理中美國有他的機制那我們關鍵就是我們的台灣關係法我是要特別提到台灣關係法裡面提到的美國對台灣"},{"start":388.149,"end":389.692,"text":"就是 加強自我防衛 因此的軍售"},{"start":394.662,"end":419.123,"text":"是有他的這個承諾這個承諾是建立在一個前提就是說因為中共他不能夠持續增加對台灣的威脅這個威脅是增加的所以這個已經被中共破壞了平衡必須再平衡我是覺得從大的方向是這樣看的所以我們對台灣關係法的解讀啦更何況美國是一個多元民主就像Marco Rubio國務卿講的這不是只有行政部門這還涉及國會"},{"start":421.165,"end":443.204,"text":"那他在這個發展中的第二步有很多參議員幫我們說話嘛我們很關心因為確實是還沒有定案嘛那還沒有定案之前的事情我們都必須要相當的就是戒慎恐懼我們要去努力那努力而已除了川普政府持續跟他們溝通我想美國政府在決策上面的其他行為者也非常重要"},{"start":443.624,"end":460.504,"text":"所以我們還是希望這次軍送能夠如期,能夠很快的看到發駕書,尤其是第二批的。剛剛有提到那個荷姆斯,上次好像有人問外交部,我們有八艘的船,現在還是困在那個地方,上次好像他們說會跟外交部這邊來做一些討論,不曉得現在狀況怎麼樣,最後一點時間。"},{"start":464.148,"end":491.906,"text":"我們都有持續掌握跟關心那當然有一些涉及到商業的行為有一些涉及到就是我們對 因為上次交通部好像說要聯合外交部跟報告委員交通部的航港局事實上他們在公布之後有找那個海運的三家業者來跟我們外交部來交換意見他們也提供給我們資料然後我們把這些資料請一些我們在中東地區的一些相關管處還有跟"},{"start":492.546,"end":516.061,"text":"伊朗可能有一些管道的一些管處去讓他們去試著去接觸看看因為不只船隻嘛,那時候還有一個船員的問題對不對他這個對他們就是除了船還有船員的問題那他們現在目前都是在這個波斯灣裡面那他們跟我們海運公司跟我們表示目前他們這個船員都是安全的然後他們的補給也都正常"},{"start":516.821,"end":536.281,"text":"那但是因為這個要出來的這個問題目前那個地方其實有將近有兩千艘這個困在這個波斯灣那這個伊朗的部分其實他們目前只有極少數的這個船隻有出來這都是一些像日本韓國他們是直接跟這個伊朗的"},{"start":536.821,"end":556.461,"text":"跟外交部來聯繫那我們跟伊朗目前是沒有外交關係所以我們沒有辦法有這個透過外長這種層次的交涉那我們試著再透過一些其他的管道來聯繫當中但是這個也要取決於這個荷姆斯海峽目前美伊還在談判之中"},{"start":557.222,"end":579.09,"text":"那隨時有可能,照美國的說法的話,隨時有可能荷姆茲海峽會開放那美國的立場,它這個財政部的立場也非常清楚那個所有的海運的這些在波灣的船隻如果要通過荷姆茲海峽是不得向伊朗去付通行費的否則會有美國財政部會給予制裁"},{"start":579.91,"end":598.905,"text":"所以目前我們的海運業者都知道這些情況完全都了解這些情況他們是在等待這個美伊的談判那還有我們這個外交部試著再去跟伊朗這邊看有沒有建立一些非正式的一些交流的這個交涉的管道好 感謝啦 希望很快會有一些比較更好的消息感謝部長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}