{"error":false,"id":["169602"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169602,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169602","日期":"2026-05-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-25T10:25:17+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-25T10:35:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fad20b8d851f264d0ee2302cb5ce5bbe6c3057ea1a5ec31e749b57a584ccd1598a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"10:25:17 - 10:35:16","會議時間":"2026-05-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍、國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「美中元首峰會後地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全之衝擊評估與因應」，併請大陸委員會列席，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":1.41471875,"end":2.52846875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":2.8997187500000003,"end":3.84471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":4.418468750000001,"end":5.549093750000001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":10.004093750000003,"end":11.438468750000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":11.67471875,"end":33.52784375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":26.71034375,"end":26.76096875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":34.08471875,"end":46.06596875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":46.369718750000004,"end":53.963468750000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":53.204093750000006,"end":53.98034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":53.98034375,"end":54.064718750000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":54.064718750000004,"end":76.00221875000001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":61.72596875000001,"end":62.04659375000001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":62.04659375000001,"end":62.09721875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":66.51846875000001,"end":66.97409375000001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":70.82159375,"end":71.09159375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":74.01096875,"end":74.02784375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":75.09096875,"end":80.64284375000001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":80.94659375,"end":95.54346875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":94.27784375,"end":111.30471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":98.15909375000001,"end":98.39534375000001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":111.42284375000001,"end":142.72596875000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":115.74284375,"end":116.26596875000001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":123.18471875,"end":123.67409375000001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":139.28346875,"end":139.75596875000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":142.50659375,"end":146.45534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":145.59471875,"end":152.76659375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":148.41284375,"end":148.75034375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":150.08346875,"end":172.40909375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":155.78721875000002,"end":156.04034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":172.40909375,"end":214.49534375000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":189.14909375000002,"end":189.63846875000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":192.84471875,"end":193.21596875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":199.22346875000002,"end":200.25284375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":211.74471875,"end":211.96409375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":214.19159375,"end":218.69721875000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":218.44409375,"end":218.54534375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":218.98409375000003,"end":231.31971875000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":226.64534375000002,"end":227.42159375000003,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":229.98659375000003,"end":230.03721875000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":230.99909375000001,"end":265.15409375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":248.48159375,"end":248.80221875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":262.94346875,"end":263.06159375000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":264.07409375000003,"end":275.63346875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":265.50846875,"end":266.06534375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":267.31409375000004,"end":267.58409375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":271.24596875000003,"end":272.59596875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":281.53971875,"end":314.14221875000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":315.49221875,"end":324.84096875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":324.84096875,"end":337.75034375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":338.07096875,"end":348.12846875,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":345.79971875,"end":345.96846875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":348.12846875,"end":348.48284375000003,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":348.48284375000003,"end":360.12659375000004,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":360.39659375,"end":360.41346875000005,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":360.41346875000005,"end":362.25284375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":362.67471875,"end":366.47159375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":366.57284375,"end":373.30596875000003,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":373.76159375000003,"end":376.12409375000004,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":376.51221875000005,"end":379.58346875,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":379.92096875000004,"end":382.09784375000004,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":382.31721875000005,"end":386.04659375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":386.11409375000005,"end":387.78471875,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":388.02096875,"end":390.06284375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":390.06284375,"end":390.09659375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":390.09659375,"end":393.77534375000005,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":390.11346875000004,"end":390.58596875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":394.58534375000005,"end":404.40659375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":404.40659375,"end":404.45721875000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":404.45721875000004,"end":404.47409375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":404.47409375,"end":404.50784375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":404.50784375,"end":443.50596875,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":420.97784375000003,"end":421.51784375000005,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":422.88471875000005,"end":423.64409375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":424.79159375,"end":426.14159375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":428.26784375000005,"end":428.58846875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":434.24159375000005,"end":434.49471875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":435.13596875,"end":435.81096875000003,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":442.78034375000004,"end":442.99971875000006,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":443.08409375,"end":443.13471875000005,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":443.50596875,"end":463.03034375000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":463.03034375000004,"end":463.33409375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":463.33409375,"end":463.38471875000005,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":463.38471875000005,"end":463.40159375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":463.92471875,"end":473.07096875,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":473.05409375000005,"end":473.49284375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":473.07096875,"end":475.80471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":474.60659375000006,"end":474.62346875000003,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":474.62346875000003,"end":497.55659375000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":476.58096875,"end":477.03659375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":485.74409375000005,"end":486.11534375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":497.33721875000003,"end":500.81346875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":500.59409375,"end":505.11659375000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":504.40784375000004,"end":505.09971875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":505.11659375000005,"end":505.20096875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":505.58909375,"end":579.7040937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":536.5547187500001,"end":538.71471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":540.97596875,"end":541.70159375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":556.7878437500001,"end":557.15909375,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":563.1497187500001,"end":563.58846875,"speaker_score":0.92},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":579.7040937500001,"end":579.8390937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":579.8390937500001,"end":595.12784375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":579.8559687500001,"end":579.92346875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":595.4484687500001,"end":599.2453437500001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顏司長嘉良","start":599.17784375,"end":599.76846875,"speaker_score":0.976}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.431,"end":3.556,"text":"主席好 有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長"},{"start":10.609,"end":34.587,"text":"局長早我想今天主要聚焦在川習會早上拿到了今天的專報的書面報告在專報的書面報告的第二頁裡面我看到有國安局做了一個表格我就從這幾個表格你們區分了幾個構面來跟局長就教第二頁那個部分第一個就是兩國關係看起來"},{"start":37.489,"end":53.48,"text":"兩國所發表聲明看起來都是他們要建立一個穩定的戰略關係看起來是一致的不過在報告裡面 局長看到裡面我們的內容上看起來好像我們現在持的觀念還是他們的競爭態勢不變是不是局長可以論述一下"},{"start":54.901,"end":76.067,"text":"基本上他們雙邊的戰略的競爭關係我想上次的專報也跟委員說明過啦錯綜複雜不過雙方也有意來管理這樣的一個爭議避免衝突的全面化跟升高所以委員可以看到在這一次的川習會因為是今年度的第一次的川習會雙方有點像是在做一個輕喉嚨的動作來闡述彼此關切的對台灣來說會有什麼樣的影響就是他們這樣子的一個戰略關係"},{"start":80.987,"end":97.332,"text":"對我想大概有幾個部分第一個部分是有涉及到一些經貿投資工業院的議題那這一塊目前看起來美國的政策立場並沒有改變還是比較主張對一些高科技產品的一個管制到中國大陸去所以局長剛剛說這個表格的第二項"},{"start":98.433,"end":110.587,"text":"因為康美你們的康美好像也是覺得他們那個經貿成果不如預期不過看起來那個樹木包含波音還有一些農產品我不知道這個會不會影響到台美關係甚至我們這次的一個軍購"},{"start":111.762,"end":125.966,"text":"這還好 這最後還是涉及到美中雙邊的一個經貿議題的一個討論那我們會認為不如預期是事實上事前的研判美方是期待中共對於美國的波音科技採購可以到600架但後來只有200架而且這200架還是經過一個討價還價的一個過程那另外美國的一些高科技的企業到中國去這一次隨團到中國訪問那也沒有達成一個比較具體的合作計畫"},{"start":135.529,"end":151.085,"text":"所以我們認為說在經貿上雖然雙方親厚容不斷的表達彼此的關切但達成的具體的成果是比較有限所以局長覺得這個應該對台北的關係來說對目前衝擊沒有那麼大不過上次有跟委員說明過因為今天還有後續的川系會所以我們還要再繼續來觀察"},{"start":153.287,"end":169.614,"text":"在地緣關係的一個構面裡面,其實有看到這個赫普斯,很多人非常關切就是說不曉得這個赫普斯海峽現在的一個狀況,會不會影響到中美甚至台美相關的一些關係也就是很多人擔心是不是這個赫普斯海峽這個問題會變成一個談判的籌碼這樣子"},{"start":172.615,"end":199.497,"text":"對在這個問題上因為美國跟伊朗部分他透過巴基斯坦的一個溝通各種的一個停戰或談判的方案都能夠持續的來進行相關書面的討論那另外中共在美國對於伊朗的問題立場並不太一樣剛剛在專報的口頭報告過程當中也說明了中俄他在這一次普丁訪問中國的期間他是去公開批評美國跟以色列對伊朗傭兵的一個動作認為是違反國際法"},{"start":200.618,"end":218.07,"text":"所以我們可以看到美中在這個議題上目前並沒有一個一致的立場而美國也積極的在管理目前荷姆茲海峽航運安全的問題所以可能委員注意到昨天包括川普總統本人跟國務卿盧比歐都有認為說目前的談判已經進入到最後的階段那最後一個就那個表格上的涉台的部分"},{"start":219.271,"end":244.443,"text":"這個非常特別,大家看到川普總統出來在媒體或媒體裡面講了一堆可是他在他的聲明裡面並沒有看到這個我想非常多國人非常關心不曉得局長怎麼看這件事情我想我們會特別把美中官方聲明做一個對照最主要是白宮方面針對這次會談他的事實清單整理出來的相關的主要的重點跟中共的外交部跟商務部他新屋島整理出來的重點"},{"start":245.023,"end":274.284,"text":"那我想官方的一個聲明應該是最清楚的因為用字是最精準的那我一開始也跟其他委員在做說明這一次的川習會訊息非常的分雜那怎麼樣來釐清哪一些是官方長期的政策哪一些是外交指令用哪一些是川普總統在受訪時候臨時脫稿的演出那這部分我們會來做一個完整的評估所以還是請局長這個密切的觀察甚至二次的川習會的部分都要密切的觀察這樣的狀況感謝局長那是不是請外交部的林部長"},{"start":282.487,"end":298.174,"text":"所以這個川崎會其實我覺得國人都非常關注這個議題所以我想上禮拜的院會,他們就提了一個案子就是希望外交部跟國防部這邊能夠呼籲美方克遵台灣關係法、三個聯合公報還有六項保證的部分"},{"start":299.895,"end":314.035,"text":"當天看起來朝野一致都支持另外我們也希望美國能夠履行出售我們軍售的部分不知道部長怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":315.66,"end":332.898,"text":"就是委員是指均全部啦就是因為這一次有談到一些好像已經脫離了過去的六項保證很多人在講嘛對對對那部長怎麼看這件事我想不管是美國這個在川習會之後的事實清單或者是說他們包括"},{"start":333.999,"end":359.847,"text":"Marco Rubio這個國務院還有相關的官員的發言其實相當一致就是對台政策沒有改變那當然有提到說因為習近平有去提對台軍售其實也暴露了習近平有求於美國嘛那當然可能這個川普總統也可能會感覺到這個問題確實是對中國來講他很重視的問題可是他也表現他沒有改變任何對台灣的承諾這個是"},{"start":362.788,"end":387.368,"text":"我們最重要的這一次川習會大概在我想在高層的互動上面習近平很重視對台軍售那川普聽到了那麼後續因為第二批的軍售還在處理中美國有他的機制那我們關鍵就是我們的台灣關係法我是要特別提到台灣關係法裡面提到的美國對台灣"},{"start":388.149,"end":389.692,"text":"就是 加強自我防衛 因此的軍售"},{"start":394.662,"end":419.123,"text":"是有他的這個承諾這個承諾是建立在一個前提就是說因為中共他不能夠持續增加對台灣的威脅這個威脅是增加的所以這個已經被中共破壞了平衡必須再平衡我是覺得從大的方向是這樣看的所以我們對台灣關係法的解讀啦更何況美國是一個多元民主就像Marco Rubio國務卿講的這不是只有行政部門這還涉及國會"},{"start":421.165,"end":443.204,"text":"那他在這個發展中的第二步有很多參議員幫我們說話嘛我們很關心因為確實是還沒有定案嘛那還沒有定案之前的事情我們都必須要相當的就是戒慎恐懼我們要去努力那努力而已除了川普政府持續跟他們溝通我想美國政府在決策上面的其他行為者也非常重要"},{"start":443.624,"end":460.504,"text":"所以我們還是希望這次軍送能夠如期,能夠很快的看到發駕書,尤其是第二批的。剛剛有提到那個荷姆斯,上次好像有人問外交部,我們有八艘的船,現在還是困在那個地方,上次好像他們說會跟外交部這邊來做一些討論,不曉得現在狀況怎麼樣,最後一點時間。"},{"start":464.148,"end":491.906,"text":"我們都有持續掌握跟關心那當然有一些涉及到商業的行為有一些涉及到就是我們對 因為上次交通部好像說要聯合外交部跟報告委員交通部的航港局事實上他們在公布之後有找那個海運的三家業者來跟我們外交部來交換意見他們也提供給我們資料然後我們把這些資料請一些我們在中東地區的一些相關管處還有跟"},{"start":492.546,"end":516.061,"text":"伊朗可能有一些管道的一些管處去讓他們去試著去接觸看看因為不只船隻嘛,那時候還有一個船員的問題對不對他這個對他們就是除了船還有船員的問題那他們現在目前都是在這個波斯灣裡面那他們跟我們海運公司跟我們表示目前他們這個船員都是安全的然後他們的補給也都正常"},{"start":516.821,"end":536.281,"text":"那但是因為這個要出來的這個問題目前那個地方其實有將近有兩千艘這個困在這個波斯灣那這個伊朗的部分其實他們目前只有極少數的這個船隻有出來這都是一些像日本韓國他們是直接跟這個伊朗的"},{"start":536.821,"end":556.461,"text":"跟外交部來聯繫那我們跟伊朗目前是沒有外交關係所以我們沒有辦法有這個透過外長這種層次的交涉那我們試著再透過一些其他的管道來聯繫當中但是這個也要取決於這個荷姆斯海峽目前美伊還在談判之中"},{"start":557.222,"end":579.09,"text":"那隨時有可能,照美國的說法的話,隨時有可能荷姆茲海峽會開放那美國的立場,它這個財政部的立場也非常清楚那個所有的海運的這些在波灣的船隻如果要通過荷姆茲海峽是不得向伊朗去付通行費的否則會有美國財政部會給予制裁"},{"start":579.91,"end":598.905,"text":"所以目前我們的海運業者都知道這些情況完全都了解這些情況他們是在等待這個美伊的談判那還有我們這個外交部試著再去跟伊朗這邊看有沒有建立一些非正式的一些交流的這個交涉的管道好 感謝啦 希望很快會有一些比較更好的消息感謝部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:25:18.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:25:18.632000+08:00","text":"主席好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:25:19.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:25:20.395000+08:00","text":"有請國安局蔡局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T10:25:20.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:25:20.556000+08:00","text":"請蔡局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:25:20.556000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:25:27.609000+08:00","text":"王委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:25:27.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:25:27.870000+08:00","text":"局長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:25:29.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:25:59.693000+08:00","text":"今天主要聚焦在川習會，早上拿到今天專報的書面報告，我看到在書面報告第2頁國安局有做了一個表格，我就從你們在這個表格區分的幾個構面來跟局長就教，第一個是兩國關係，兩國所發表的聲明看起來都是要建立一個穩定的戰略關係，看起來是一致的嘛！對。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:26:01.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:26:10.460000+08:00","text":"不過從報告的內容看起來，我們現在持的觀念好像還是他們的競爭態勢不變，局長是不是可以論述一下？","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:26:11.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:26:32.427000+08:00","text":"基本上，他們雙邊戰略的競爭關係，在上次的專報也跟委員說明過，是錯綜複雜，不過雙方也有意管理這樣一個爭議，避免衝突全面化跟升高，所以委員可以看到這一次的川習會，因為是今年度第一次的川習會，雙方有點像是在做一個清喉嚨的動作，來闡述彼此關切的……","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:26:32.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:26:32.607000+08:00","text":"局長，他們這樣的戰略關係對臺灣來說會有什麼樣的影響？","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:26:37.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:26:51.751000+08:00","text":"我想大概有幾個部分，第一個部分是涉及到一些經貿、投資、工業鏈的議題，這一塊目前看來美國的政策立場並沒有改變，還是主張管制一些高科技產品到中國大陸去。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:26:52.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:27:07.587000+08:00","text":"局長，你說的已經是這個表格的第二項了，你們的comment好像也是覺得他們的經貿成果不如預期，不過看起來那個數目，包含波音還有一些農產品，我不知道這個會不會影響到臺美關係，甚至我們這次的軍購。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:27:08.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:27:22.966000+08:00","text":"這還好，主要還是涉及到美中雙邊經貿議題的討論，我們會認為不如預期，是因為事前的研判，美方是期待中共對美國的波音客機採購可以到600架，但後來只有200架，而且這200架還是經過討價還價的過程；另外，美國的一些高科技企業這一次隨團到中國訪問，也沒有達成一個比較具體的合作計畫。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:27:32.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:27:39.376000+08:00","text":"所以我們認為在經貿上，雖然雙方清喉嚨，不斷地表達彼此的關切，但是達成的具體成果是比較有限的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:27:39.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:27:42.800000+08:00","text":"所以局長覺得這個對於臺美的關係來說應該還好……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:27:42.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:27:48.065000+08:00","text":"對，目前衝擊沒有那麼大，不過上次也跟委員說明過，今年還有後續的川習會，所以我們還要再繼續觀察。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:27:50.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:28:06.594000+08:00","text":"是，在地緣關係的那個構面裡也看到荷姆茲海峽，這個部分很多人非常關切，不曉得荷姆茲海峽現在的狀況會不會影響到中美，甚至臺美相關的關係，也就是很多人擔心是不是荷姆茲海峽的問題會變成一個談判的籌碼？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:28:09.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:28:21.505000+08:00","text":"對，在這個問題上，因為美國跟伊朗是透過巴基斯坦溝通，各種停戰或談判方案都能夠持續進行相關書面的討論。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:28:21.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:28:51.948000+08:00","text":"另外，中共在美國對於伊朗問題的立場並不太一樣，我剛剛在專報的口頭報告過程當中也說明了，中俄在這次普丁訪問中國的期間，公開批評了美國跟以色列對伊朗用兵的動作，認為是違反國際法，所以我們可以看到美中在這個議題上目前並沒有一致的立場，而美國也積極地在管理目前荷姆茲海峽航運安全的問題，可能委員也注意到，昨天包括川普總統本人跟國務卿盧比歐都認為，目前的談判已經進入最後的階段。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:28:52.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:08.017000+08:00","text":"是，表格中最後一個是涉臺的部分，這個非常特別，大家看到川普總統出來在媒體或飛機那邊講了一堆，可是在他的聲明裡面並沒有看到，這個部分我想非常多國人都很關心，不曉得局長怎麼看這件事情？","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:08.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:26.066000+08:00","text":"對，我們會特別把美中官方聲明做一個對照，最主要是白宮方面針對這次會談的事實清單所整理出來的相關主要重點，與中共外交部跟商務部的新聞稿所整理出來的重點，我想官方的聲明應該是最清楚的，因為用字是最精準的。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:26.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:41.397000+08:00","text":"我一開始也跟其他委員說明，這次川習會的訊息非常的紛雜，怎麼樣釐清哪一些是官方長期的政策，哪一些是外交辭令，又有哪一些是川普總統在受訪時臨時脫稿的演出，這個部分我們會來做一個完整的評估。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:41.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:43.598000+08:00","text":"所以還是請局長要密切的觀察……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:43.598000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:44.699000+08:00","text":"會，我們會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:44.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:48.322000+08:00","text":"甚至對第二次川習會的部分，要多多密切觀察這樣的狀況。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:48.322000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:49.322000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員提醒。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:48.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:48.582000+08:00","text":"感謝局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:50.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:51.284000+08:00","text":"接下來請外交部林部長。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:51.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:54.285333+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:54.285333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:29:57.286667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:29:57.286667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:30:00.288000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:30:00.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:30:31.015000+08:00","text":"川習會後其實我覺得國人都非常關注這個議題，上個禮拜的院會就提了一個案子，就是希望外交部跟國防部能夠呼籲美方恪遵臺灣關係法、三個聯合公報還有六項保證，當天看起來朝野一致都支持；另外，我們也希望美國能夠履行對我方的軍售，不曉得部長怎麼看這件事情？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:30:33.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:30:33.421000+08:00","text":"委員是指軍售……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:30:35.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:30:35.323000+08:00","text":"對，就是全部啦！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:30:35.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:30:39.767000+08:00","text":"因為這一次有談到一些好像已經脫離了過去的六項保證，很多人在講嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:30:40.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:30:41.709000+08:00","text":"部長怎麼看這件事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:30:41.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:30:58.861000+08:00","text":"我想不管是美國在川習會之後的事實清單，或者是包括Marco Rubio國務卿還有相關官員的發言其實相當一致，就是對臺政策沒有改變……是。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:30:59.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:31:16.827000+08:00","text":"當然也有提到習近平有去提對臺軍售，其實這個也暴露了習近平有求於美國，當然川普總統也可能會感覺到，這個問題確實是中國很重視的問題，可是他也表明了，他沒有改變任何對臺灣的承諾……是。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:31:19.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:31:34.600000+08:00","text":"我們想這一次川習會最重要的，在高層的互動上面，就是習近平很重視對臺軍售，川普聽到了，後續因為第二批的軍售還在處理中……是。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:31:35.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:31:38.904000+08:00","text":"美國有他的機制，我們關心的就是我們的臺灣關係法。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:31:40.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:31:45.269000+08:00","text":"其實我要特別提到的就是，臺灣關係法中提到美國對臺灣就是……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:31:45.269000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:31:46.269000+08:00","text":"就是有這個責任喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:31:45.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:04.914000+08:00","text":"加強自我防衛而生的軍售是美方的承諾，這個承諾是建立在一個前提就是說，中共不能夠持續增加對臺灣的武力威脅，而這個威脅是增加的，所以這個已經被中共破壞的平衡必須再平衡。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:05.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:09.037000+08:00","text":"我是覺得從大的方向是這樣看，這是我們對臺灣關係法的解讀。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:09.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:19.566000+08:00","text":"更何況美國是一個多元的民主國家，就像Marco Rubio國務卿講的，這不是只有行政部門，還涉及國會，在發展中的第二批軍售……","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:19.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:21.008000+08:00","text":"是，也有很多參議員幫我們說話嘛……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:22.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:31.837000+08:00","text":"對，我們會很關心，因為確實是還沒有定案，還沒有定案之前的事情，我們都必須要相當的戒慎恐懼，我們要去努力……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:31.837000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:32.837000+08:00","text":"是，所以……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:32.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:40.184000+08:00","text":"努力的方向，除了持續跟川普政府溝通，我想美國政府在決策上面的其他行為者也非常重要。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:40.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:46.871000+08:00","text":"是，所以我們還是希望這次的軍售能夠如期，能夠很快地看到發價書，尤其是第二批的。是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:47.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:57.324000+08:00","text":"剛剛有提到荷姆茲海峽，上次好像有人問外交部，現在我們有8艘船還是困在那個地方，上次他們好像說會跟外交部做一些討論，不曉得現在狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:32:57.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:32:57.504000+08:00","text":"最後一點時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:33:01.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:33:10.014000+08:00","text":"我們都有持續掌握跟關心，當然有一些涉及到商業的行為，有一些涉及到……就是我們……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:33:10.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:33:12.135000+08:00","text":"對，因為上次交通部好像說要聯合外交部……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-05-25T10:33:13.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:33:34.329000+08:00","text":"報告委員，事實上，交通部航港局他們在公布之後，有找海運的三家業者來跟我們外交部交換意見，他們也提供給我們資料，這些資料我們也請我國在中東地區的一些相關館處，還有跟伊朗可能有一些管道的館處，讓他們試著去接觸看看……","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:33:34.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:33:37.871000+08:00","text":"因為不只船隻，還有船員的問題，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-05-25T10:33:38.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:33:45.276000+08:00","text":"對，除了船還有船員的問題，他們目前都是在波斯灣裡面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-05-25T10:33:47.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:34:15.683000+08:00","text":"海運公司跟我們表示，目前他們的船員都是安全的，他們的補給也都正常，但是要出來的這個問題，目前那個地方其實將近有兩千艘困在波斯灣，至於伊朗這個部分，其實目前只有極少數船隻有出來，這都是一些特……像日本、韓國是直接跟伊朗的外交部聯繫……","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:34:15.683000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:34:16.683000+08:00","text":"對，好像有一些有放行嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-05-25T10:34:16.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:34:39.764000+08:00","text":"我們跟伊朗目前沒有外交關係，所以我們沒有辦法透過外長這種層次的交涉，我們試著透過一些其他的管道聯繫當中，但是這個也要取決於……荷姆茲海峽目前美伊還在談判之中，照美國的說法，荷姆茲海峽隨時有可能會開放……是。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-05-25T10:34:40.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:34:56.070000+08:00","text":"美國財政部的立場也非常清楚，所有這些在波斯灣的海運船隻，如果要通過荷姆茲海峽，是不得向伊朗去付通行費的，否則美國財政部會給予制裁……是。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-05-25T10:34:57.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:35:11.962000+08:00","text":"目前我們的海運業者都知道這些情況，完全都了解這些情況，他們也是在等待美伊的談判，還有我們外交部也試著再去跟伊朗，看有沒有辦法建立一些非正式的交涉管道。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:35:12.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:35:15.385000+08:00","text":"好，感謝，希望很快會有一些比較好的消息。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-05-25T10:35:15.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T10:35:15.905000+08:00","text":"感謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-05-25T10:35:16.405000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:35:18.119286+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T10:35:18.419286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T10:35:22.133571+08:00","text":"接下來請羅美玲委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}