{"error":false,"id":["169622"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169622,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169622","日期":"2026-05-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-25T11:34:27+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-25T11:43:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fad20b8d851f264da4efcaa33f7ff91d6c3057ea1a5ec31eaf3d8c73d94143d9741abac731c48f905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:34:27 - 11:43:07","會議時間":"2026-05-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍、國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「美中元首峰會後地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全之衝擊評估與因應」，併請大陸委員會列席，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.18284375000000003,"end":2.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.57909375,"end":3.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.695968750000002,"end":12.012218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.47221875,"end":11.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.46784375,"end":28.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.38096875,"end":55.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.02221875,"end":56.595968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.86596875,"end":64.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.93221875,"end":80.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.06909375000001,"end":98.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.71846875,"end":82.97159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.29846875000001,"end":105.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.64721875000001,"end":118.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.81409375000001,"end":131.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.10034375000001,"end":123.72471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.15846875,"end":136.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.63846875000002,"end":141.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.30846875,"end":148.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.46846875,"end":143.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.84784375,"end":145.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.06721875,"end":146.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.54784375,"end":171.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.69659375,"end":183.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.50034375,"end":188.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.89596875,"end":194.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.11909375000002,"end":193.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.02596875,"end":210.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.20721875,"end":195.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.34409375,"end":213.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.21284375000002,"end":213.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.68534375000002,"end":213.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.95534375000003,"end":213.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.79909375000003,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.49159375000002,"end":238.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.02471875000003,"end":273.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.77284375,"end":275.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.78534375000004,"end":275.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.47721875,"end":276.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.49409375,"end":276.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.51096875,"end":282.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.02909375,"end":302.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.63346875,"end":302.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.17346875000004,"end":318.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.25534375,"end":320.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.17909375,"end":328.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.78534375000004,"end":334.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.35846875000004,"end":337.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.56846875,"end":342.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.45409375,"end":343.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.82534375,"end":343.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.85909375,"end":345.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.87596875,"end":349.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.88346875,"end":360.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.10284375000003,"end":356.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.76784375,"end":387.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.71721875000003,"end":393.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.28159375,"end":396.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.22221875,"end":404.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.77784375000005,"end":410.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.75159375000004,"end":421.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.63596875,"end":424.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.63971875000004,"end":424.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.33159375,"end":426.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.24284375,"end":426.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.71534375000005,"end":426.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.96846875,"end":443.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.48534375,"end":449.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.78346875000005,"end":452.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.28971875,"end":455.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.91721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主席謝謝 麻煩請林佳龍部長請林部長好 部長好委員好"},{"start":12.557,"end":34.966,"text":"感謝今天召委特別針對我們這個川習會之後地緣政治新局及我國外交的事務來做專題報告那其實本席也看到是說接下來也有年度預算的這個審議那本席現在今天還是以一個我一直認為外交是我們全體中華民國國民大家共同一起努力的"},{"start":35.393,"end":54.421,"text":"所以對外我們就是國家的方向一致要一致那所以我今天不討論個案但我比較想說一個大觀點這邊來看我想請教一下就是說部長你上任也快兩年時間一年多兩年嘛那現在有沒有針對譬如說因為看到我們的邦交國相對來講也"},{"start":56.953,"end":69.172,"text":"縮減那我們的邦交國維繫邦交不容易但是邦交國對於我國有沒有提出更多的一些要求在過去這一些接觸裡面有沒有說因為他可能會覺得是說有時候我們台語說靠誰"},{"start":71.235,"end":96.948,"text":"會不會覺得是說這個邦交國這覺得是說好像現在我們相對影響力相對比較小所以他對我們提出更多要求不管合理不合理有沒有這樣的一個方法報告員並沒有其實我們這個邦交國是跟台灣維持邦交其實說理念相近是因為我們的發展經驗很值得他們來參考所以我們推動所謂榮邦計畫現在就把原來可能對外的援助再加上投資然後由政府跟民間一起來"},{"start":97.728,"end":105.654,"text":"所以第一就是說我們原本邦交國並沒有因為這樣提出更多的要求不管合理不合理是不是對好那另外"},{"start":106.781,"end":134.117,"text":"世界就是邦交跟沒邦交那沒邦交的國家有沒有對於我們外交上來講有提出一些要求或是說希望我們援助的地方他們是很希望我們台灣的模式也能夠用在他們國家那當然我們也會看這個國家跟我們的關係對我們戰略上的一個利害過去這兩年有沒有提出比較多的這些預算還是說這些給"},{"start":135.037,"end":160.91,"text":"沒有邦交的國家對於理念相近但不是有正式邦交但是確實在戰略上很重要比如說菲律賓或是像波蘭我們確實會投入比較多的資源但是我們重新去定義我們的所謂總和外交不是只有以邦交為唯一的指標也就是說對我們國家的利益來講很重要的比如說我們最近我想跟波蘭的關係那它是中東歐的大國"},{"start":161.83,"end":179.126,"text":"他也很對台灣的發展模式特別是我們的高科技產業他很有興趣那也宣布了一些合作計畫菲律賓也是我們站在這邊就是就事論事我只是想是說就是對於整個外交部來講你現在已經講到了就是說其實邦交國跟非邦交國"},{"start":179.747,"end":197.962,"text":"都有持續的投入那預算可能使用的部分報告委員就是我們反映在榮邦計畫有八個旗艦的方案那我們有增加預算因為比如說我們現在在巴拉圭做的這個智慧醫療我們可能很多國家我們都可以去推動市長你先聽一下本學的問題啦"},{"start":198.763,"end":212.878,"text":"但是我今天真的還是就事論事就是說我想了解的是說那到底過去這幾年裡面尤其是民進黨政府上任之後這十年到底我們針對邦交國跟非邦交國我們的預算使用比例來講大幅增加的是非邦交國"},{"start":215.521,"end":231.913,"text":"應該說都有增加因為我們總預算增加了但是我們相對的佔比都一直減少中中國的外交預算也大幅增加所以基於我們國家的安全利益的發展我們也希望等比例的增加外交部的預算所以從2024年那個時候大概都是300億左右"},{"start":239.218,"end":255.954,"text":"那到了我們去年就是來編今年的預算的時候我們就有增加榮邦計畫的預算那另外就國安會的角色越來越重要那行政院曾經就是要編列的預算並沒有到位我們也希望能夠把它補足"},{"start":256.714,"end":273.572,"text":"因為本席現在其實提出來部長你看到我現在就是就整個大方向我不希望把我們不希望把錢花在刀口上但我們不希望浪費是因為什麼很多國人其實也都在回饋跟反應就是說其實從民進黨政府上任當時2016年我們有多少幫教國"},{"start":275.445,"end":302.147,"text":"2016年那個時候大概我們現在12個邦交國嘛那個時候大概有將近20個22個邦交國到現在只有12個邦交國我們邦交國其實少了10個但是我們對於邦交的一個邦交國的一個經費運用實用上來講我們其實是不減反增的那代表什麼代表說分母減少了但是我們分子是增加的所以說其實我們在每一個邦交國上面用的預算其實是增加的"},{"start":303.328,"end":322.039,"text":"另外對於你剛一直講到所謂的這個以前從固邦現在從隆邦或是說對於其他的沒有邦交國的國家裡面我們也都大幅的成長我們的預算包括說我看到我們的外交部有所謂的這個國際援助計畫跟關懷計畫在這一個部分裡面國際關懷跟援助計畫裡面從2016年的"},{"start":330.327,"end":340.776,"text":"2016年那時候的預算 到現在已經大幅成長了700多%7倍之多 等於是成長了成長到現在390幾億"},{"start":343.473,"end":347.138,"text":"所以說我們去年的預算是305億啊 其中我們國際合作跟關懷預算是從90億成長到202億 成長了125%"},{"start":360.896,"end":386.533,"text":"所以本席的意思還是強調我今天就事論事強調說當我們從2016年民進黨政府執政到現在2026年整體的預算都大幅的成長的時候當然我們的邦交國其實是減少的所以換言之我們投入在每一個邦交國裡面的預算其實是增加的另外我們在非邦交國的部分我們也有投入很多的經費但是在這些經費裡面包括說烏克蘭重建等相關費用"},{"start":387.754,"end":403.834,"text":"到底我們的成效因為有些時候預算花在刀口上你說什麼東西都要去做當然你錢撒出去永遠不夠但本席還是強調是我們對於我們自己國家的價值應該要把錢花在刀口上所以最後我是想說在"},{"start":405.155,"end":424.758,"text":"確認一下是不是部長也可以給本席一個資料就是針對我們從過去到現在至少說從這兩年賴政府上任之後這兩年對於我們邦交國以及非邦交國還有就是國際援助的地方的這個成效以及收益這個資料是不是可以提供給本席可以好"},{"start":425.439,"end":449.561,"text":"什麼時候可以提供我們在一個禮拜內提供不過委員補充一個資訊其實在2008年那個時候我們的外交預算就接近300億後來是因為減少因為我們現在中央總預算的比例有增加所以我們佔比就是從將近1.8%降到9.8%所以我們希望恢復到原來你們每一次都喜歡拿馬政府你看都已經要結束了你就是喜歡拿馬維拉來救援"},{"start":449.701,"end":452.084,"text":"2008年的時候有多少邦交國?馬政府交給民進黨政府應該有超過30個邦交國吧?"},{"start":471.039,"end":497.91,"text":"20多個邦交國嘛到2006年的時候是22個嘛23嘛那到民進黨政府從短短的幾年裡面從22個邦交國變12個邦交國所以你要比這種東西其實我覺得是很沒有必要的事情但本席今天就事論事所以說從開宗明義我講說不要講個案我講通案我還是希望站在鼓勵外交部的立場上面但我希望的是為人民把關預算把錢花在刀口上"},{"start":499.07,"end":520.544,"text":"不是每一次提到這個都要講什麼前朝政府 現在政府民進黨已經執政十年了能夠為中華民國走出去我們都支持但不要每一次都拿政治意識形態報告委員 謝謝您的指教我們也會加強的善用我們外交部的預算好 陳浩指教再給本席我們之後再來做討論好 感謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}