{"error":false,"id":["169634"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169634,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169634","日期":"2026-05-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-5-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期第11次會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第5會期第11次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-26T10:06:03+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-26T10:21:51+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4826035ccdf778d3e46a1a1462b0a04286b99ac3399365e151b5e8c542c4931f315cf85df7fa038c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"10:06:03 - 10:21:51","會議時間":"2026-05-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第5會期第11次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「邀請行政院院長應即率同大陸委員會、國防部、外交部及經濟部等相關部會首長就『川習會後台美與兩岸局勢變局、國安戰略、外交困境、經貿衝擊等之因應對策』進行專案報告並備質詢。」是否有當？請公決案等2案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、5月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.8997187500000003,"end":3.3215937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.7097187500000004,"end":4.384718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.78471875,"end":13.615343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.05409375,"end":15.977843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.469718750000002,"end":28.043468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.65534375,"end":28.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.65096875,"end":31.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.21159375,"end":64.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.30346875000001,"end":79.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.76096875,"end":81.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.38096875000001,"end":84.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.82784375,"end":87.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.35909375,"end":88.05096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.30409375,"end":91.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.89846875,"end":95.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.40846875000001,"end":96.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.66971875,"end":102.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.37784375000001,"end":103.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.01909375000001,"end":104.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.97659375,"end":113.56596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.08909375,"end":115.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.02971875,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.64971875,"end":119.84346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.09659375000001,"end":123.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.94409375000001,"end":124.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.97346875000001,"end":127.23471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.60596875,"end":129.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.32721875000001,"end":131.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.53784375,"end":135.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.31346875,"end":143.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.94096875,"end":151.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.73721875,"end":176.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.04846875,"end":158.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.91471875000002,"end":178.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.48409375,"end":198.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.37659375,"end":191.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.69221875000002,"end":223.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.28346875000003,"end":221.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.20721875,"end":222.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.03409375,"end":229.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.88534375,"end":235.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.77471875,"end":250.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.69221875000002,"end":250.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.91159375,"end":250.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.01284375000003,"end":291.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.49159375,"end":301.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.77284375,"end":303.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.47721875,"end":305.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.09284375000004,"end":311.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.45909375,"end":312.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.92721875,"end":314.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.51346875,"end":319.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.77846875,"end":325.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.02659375,"end":325.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.17846875000004,"end":327.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.94596875,"end":337.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.24846875000003,"end":337.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.61534375,"end":339.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.49284375,"end":352.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.25534375,"end":346.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.39784375000005,"end":357.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.56159375000004,"end":359.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.10971875,"end":364.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.39596875,"end":382.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.46909375,"end":383.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.08909375,"end":398.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.82096875,"end":447.21846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.14659375,"end":449.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.96909375,"end":451.65659375},{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跟委員說明那因為未來有這個5000元的成長津貼的時候他就可以拿一部分放入這個未來帳戶這些弱勢"},{"start":232.632,"end":250.729,"text":"那政府就會再對撥進去所以未來這個開戶率也好或者是提撥率一定會提高那第二個呢這一些津貼呢都會排除在我們在社救法裡面的其他收入的部分所以也不會影響到它的這個社福條件這個都會把它保障"},{"start":252.03,"end":263.425,"text":"幹部長就已經提到社救法我們就來談一下因為這個月事實上院長也出席了我們第四度的國際審查兩公約的第四度國際審查"},{"start":264.502,"end":291.366,"text":"那這次的結論性意見國際委員就再一次明確表示說我們的社會救助法必須修而且不是小修小補而過去我們社會救助法門檻非常高申請的程序事實上過於複雜所以不知道院長你對國際委員的建議你準備如何回應他希望要修那什麼時候這個社會救助法的時程是什麼行政院的版本預計什麼時候送出來還是目前考量的關鍵因素在哪裡"},{"start":292.546,"end":310.814,"text":"是我是還沒有看到整個具體的全貌但是剛剛部長之前跟陳時中政委我們都有接受到這些國際委員提供的意見比方說他對我們申請的流程比如說該個人的一些條件限制是不是要跟居住"},{"start":312.054,"end":340.744,"text":"一致這個部分我們都有談到這個重點那希望衛福部跟政委能夠持續將國際委員的意見適合我們在此時我們社會情勢需要的部分我們一一來做檢討院長有沒有一些時程讓我們知道跟委員說明目前這個草案已經在行政院審查當中已經完成三分之二了所以應該會在這個會期可以這個會期可以送出來嗎可以應該是這個會期我今天要的就是這個答案"},{"start":342.519,"end":362.365,"text":"這幾年國內的情勢變化很多端 戰爭衝擊到經濟 人際疏離居住環境 甚至科技帶來人際疏離所以社工面對到的 不管是兒少老富障 貧窮暴力災害都要由社工來承擔"},{"start":365.566,"end":383.125,"text":"社工我一直認為事實上是穩定社會的重要力量包含從總統到副總統到院長您本人都強調社工事實上是建構社會安全網的人也是全社會防衛任性安全體系的重要的人可是"},{"start":384.107,"end":405.452,"text":"我們要問的是也就是社工的工作內容有特殊性他們常常在處理的事實上是社會各式各樣的複雜的問題面對到暴力自殺甚至經濟困頓失業者失去依靠性侵可是他們也需要被支撐可是看起來這十幾年來各項的調查都知道說社工長期承受了各方的壓力"},{"start":406.692,"end":432.001,"text":"勞動的結構跟情緒勞動的一個負荷今年初事實上工會職業工會也調查說超過四分之一的社工半年內因為工作因素接受心理智商跟身心科的就診約四分之三處於過勞近一半出現憂鬱的狀況所以院長社工既然是我們很重要國家重要的夥伴可是這十幾年來都只是靠個別調查去了解他的狀態"},{"start":433.257,"end":460.927,"text":"院長你怎麼看你有掌握到這樣子的一個狀況嗎你覺得這樣子的一個個別調查甚至是公會來做的你覺得這樣子足夠嗎到底我們政府有哪些東西事實上對於社工的掌握程度事實上是弱的社工夥伴通常對他的這個照顧的個案對象會付很大的愛心但是他也經常把自己放在一個可能有危險威脅的狀態當中所以"},{"start":463.248,"end":490.067,"text":"我們對他關心除了讓他有更專業的智能以及更相對的待遇跟福利來照顧他本身之外他如果遇到有些重大的危險的時候我們應該給他一些心理上的支持甚至他需要的時候在治療醫療上也應該有經濟上的協助另外萬一進入到一個真的需要訴訟的時候我們也要有法律的諮詢法律的協助這是我們現在想到的一些相關的作為"},{"start":491.328,"end":506.975,"text":"院長 事實上在政策支持上行政院對社工職業安全到現在還是停留在10年來未修的社工人員的一個職業安全方案另外還有社工人員的職業安全重大危害事件處理機"},{"start":507.675,"end":520.727,"text":"策進的一個實施計畫重點是這個這兩個都是把它放在事後的一個處理跟通報跟輔導改善可是我們更需要的是前端的一個機制所以我不知道院長這邊有"},{"start":522.441,"end":538.079,"text":"能承諾因為之前103年行政院就已經有討論過社會工作人員的職業安全條例有沒有辦法重新拿出來研議然後去修這個法"},{"start":538.379,"end":557.954,"text":"就請部長說明一下現在具體的一些計畫跟委員說明在我們社安網裡頭我們新的一期社安網裡面也特別去強化這個職業安全的專案支持那過去就是如委員講的我們過去就是有一個叫職業安全計畫對於社工人員特別裡面包含團保的部分"},{"start":558.795,"end":584.474,"text":"那麼現在也還包含了一些心理諮商的支持減壓的這個做法那我們再來檢視一下這一個職業安全計畫與時俱進我們再來做一些滾動式的按照需求來做一些調整我們看國外甚至就是有些家訪有必要的時候會有訓練有素的人或者是員警去陪同因為我們現在常面對到的有可能是人身安全的一些問題所以才會"},{"start":586.539,"end":602.921,"text":"迫使他最後離開是什麼因為身心的一些因素我覺得政府應該要考量所以我也希望說這邊事實上可以考慮再度的把這個法提出來討論然後去修這個法另外一個就是我們政府"},{"start":604.68,"end":630.727,"text":"社福服務的採購長期存在事實上是費用編列不清契約的設計的矛盾跟履約管理不合理的這樣子的一個問題那衛福部長期沒有建立所謂符合社福專業的一個採購跟經費編列之意這也是過去我自己在社福機構常會面對到的一個很深的一個困擾所以院長政府把法定服務去委託民間辦理後"},{"start":631.98,"end":658.911,"text":"結果把加班費人事成本跟督導支持跟偏鄉招募的成本都加重在機構的身上常常有時候如果要加班結果最後事實上是會認為你機構你自己管理不當你為什麼有要加班可是今天個案晚上發生事情的時候要不要處理要處理甚至上非上班時間要不要去處理當然要處理所以院長這樣子的加班費難道要壓在機構跟第一線的社工的身上嗎"},{"start":661.089,"end":679.55,"text":"跟委員說明剛剛提到這個社福的採購的指引我們現在草案差不多完成了什麼時候可以完成盡快我們看看是不是在六月底之前可以把它發布因為還要跟地方主管機關大家一起協商我們真的等很久了"},{"start":680.091,"end":705.561,"text":"我們應該在六月底之前我會來push趕快讓這個採購指引讓大家可以有一致性的認定因為這已經是超過十年的問題了所以我們希望能夠盡速也謝謝今天能得到這樣的一個答案那院長今天也要請教社工勞動權益跟職業安全衛生的問題這件事事實上我在去年就要求衛福部勞動部合作"},{"start":706.448,"end":735.351,"text":"那不是用我們的勞檢的強度而是用法尊法事跟職安衛的監督輔導來協助社福機構改善所以可是現在不是沒有法事那也不是勞動部沒有量能所以我今天為什麼沒有請我們的勞動部部長上來就是因為我覺得關鍵是衛福部不能只有提供機構的名單社工面對到兒少保護家暴長照身障的高壓的高風險的工作那衛福部作為主管機關是不是應該要去設計"},{"start":736.292,"end":763.182,"text":"我們的所謂的社工專屬的法尊訪視的項目這勞動部做不了所以就要衛福部來做部長你是否認同好我們來跟勞動部當然這個法規的主管機關是勞動部不過涉及到專業領域剛剛您提到的這個社工工作的特殊性所以他的訪查的重點的一些建議呢那我們來提供給勞動部"},{"start":764.295,"end":785.537,"text":"那院長我也希望你能支持三件事情第一又衛福部主責然後勞動部來協同啟動我們的社工勞全的法尊法師及職安衛的監督輔導的專案第二事實上是邀集各地社工師工會跟職業工會來共同研擬因為他們最知道第一線到底需求是什麼問題是什麼"},{"start":787.594,"end":814.324,"text":"並規劃他們來陪同訪視第三把身心健康我們的職場霸凌跟人身安全跟創傷曝露跟社福契約管理約管理納入輔導內容院長可否支持這三項謝謝委員很具體的提出三點那我會請衛福部勞動部就這些訪視的過程當中所得到的這些數據跟分析的結果能夠進行各種的進一步的綜合的一個評估考量"},{"start":814.924,"end":841.294,"text":"那我也知道中央跟地方政府也經常有相關的會議在開這種會議推動地方政府成立社工人員工會的這個原意希望還沒有成立的也能夠加速來成立一個工會來保障整個社工夥伴的工作權跟本身的權益謝謝院長對我們社工的支持那院長成熟國家的政策應對通常不是社工壓力大我們就提供資商而已"},{"start":841.596,"end":870.534,"text":"他需要更完整的制度所以我覺得是不是可以針對公部門跟民間受助單位跟委辦單位的社工一方面能夠結合我們剛才講的法尊法師跟職安衛的輔導另外一方面是不是由衛福建立社工專屬的年度或雙年度的調查去了解他們的身心狀況甚至勞動權益跟自治體系我也要問院長能不能在你主持的社委會定期去"},{"start":871.214,"end":885.144,"text":"納管這樣子的一個議題好謝謝委員的提醒有這樣的調查我們才能確實掌握他的資訊做各種精密的分析那衛福部應該會可以往這個方向來進行部長來做什麼我們來委託專業團體來做這個調查院長4月22號將近2000名社工走上街頭"},{"start":892.625,"end":916.947,"text":"然後這不只是衛福部的問題也是國家社會安全網的重大議題啦個案責任留給司法判斷可是司法之外政府還是要去面對制度的問題院長我相信你非常願意跟社工夥伴一起來站在一起檢視制度來看那所以我希望說院長是不是能夠比照護理人員的政策那個整備提出行政院級的社工人力的整備計畫"},{"start":918.962,"end":919.542,"text":"社工人力準備計畫"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}