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遏止下來的任何的措施我們都會努力研究任何有助於防毒的這個工作我們都會全力來研究怎麼樣讓它有效成為一個處罰上可行的政策"},{"start":188.321,"end":210.36,"text":"我今年也代表了立法院的市長團去WHA那就是市長團那這個今年有大概有幾個突破啦但是其中最重要的一個突破大概應該是雙部長的出現就文金交融部長也能夠出席一些重要的交流活動那我還看到大概超過200個人從海內外從國內外就是不同地方到這個日內瓦為台灣加油打氣"},{"start":211.221,"end":235.797,"text":"但是院長我想請教你的是請問你有掌握資訊就是在WHA會中因為我們進不去到底有多少邦交國跟非邦交國幫我們講話呢你有講過這個資訊嗎我不一定要知道是誰或多少每年五月下旬這個WHA的盛會都是我們國家在展現我們主體主權的一個非常重要的場合今年非常感謝"},{"start":236.778,"end":264.975,"text":"有11個邦交國就是他的正式的組織的成員國11個在會中幫我們說話了另外還有15個理念相近的國家也幫我們在裡面講出台灣的重要性我們非常感謝謝謝院長 院長你有掌握但是我要請教你從倡議加入WHA到今天29年那您覺得我們台灣距離WHA是越來越近"},{"start":266.116,"end":288.665,"text":"還是越來越遠 請問現在距離有多遠我們每次都到門口到門口但是進不去還要再努力 國際政治的現實以及中國刻意的打壓他不發邀請等等都是在這個過程當中盡量的要打壓台灣但是我們的距離至少我們可做的我們做到極致就是29年來還是站在門口啦"},{"start":289.405,"end":316.239,"text":"這個是一個事實我本來要問你說到底越來越近還越來越遠因為川習會當中他有提到說兩個大國美中提到說最重要的問題竟然是台灣問題那我沒有想到我們三位立委在跟這個瑞士的國會議員交流的時候他們就竟然提出了這個問題問我們結果兩個大黨推我先講後來我們三個都發言了那我的一開口當然我講了不少我一開口就說非常遺憾兩個國家在討論台灣但是台灣不在場"},{"start":318.74,"end":336.37,"text":"所以我們似乎沒有權利去掌握我們自己的命運我現在要請問院長您認為台灣跟中國的最適當的距離是什麼在維護國家主權的同時能不能避免被國際組織排除尤其是我們的強項健康醫療照護"},{"start":338.392,"end":353.645,"text":"公衛 這個都是我們強項我們面對WHA WHO的時候您認為我們的最適距離是什麼可以簡單回答嗎分兩種 第一個我覺得台灣跟中國的交流我們願意在健康永續平等而且尊嚴的狀況之下直接的跟他交流"},{"start":354.446,"end":369.305,"text":"第二個如果要防制中國武力的各種威脅台灣應該結合跟我們理念相近國家一起形成一個民主防禦的堅強的一道夥伴就是在維持印太地區的整個安全跟穩定這兩個部分要分開來談"},{"start":370.086,"end":388.698,"text":"聽到更具體的答案啦不過這是您的大概一項的標準答案也是用了很多年了啦院長不過就是我就把我們的就是遇到的狀況就讓院長知道他們是直接對我們提問啦想大家了解我們身為民意代表我們的想法是什麼院長面對少子女化的問題總統賴總統賴總統在擔任副總統是2022年跟2023年他接見那個誘奪獎的這個得獎的時候他講了一句話"},{"start":395.262,"end":415.363,"text":"年輕夫妻家庭如果因為生理因素而沒辦法生政府應該要優先解決那麼他在執政兩週年的演講中他也再度提到年輕人想生但卻因為生理因素沒有辦法生等等也就是說總統一直以來他都把這個問題很清楚放在心上台灣社會一直存在一群人"},{"start":416.044,"end":444.485,"text":"他想生養但是因為身體跟生理的因素而沒有辦法如願他認為政府是有責任要協助解決的請問院長民進黨的少子女化的政策對於生理因素無法生育的解決方案是什麼政府的政策不僅希望大家能夠多生育對這種因為生理狀態無法生育的人我們也願意從人工生殖各方面來進行所必要的一些補助我知道你們就是一直談補助"},{"start":445.586,"end":474.407,"text":"你們一直談補助但是卻無視一群先天後天子宮或其他重大疾病直接相關疾病子宮有病變的人你們就是放任代理孕母制度被醜化黑化而且讓人工生殖法就年久失修一直就是不願意去面對我必須跟你報告我擔任立委以來我兩回遇到賴總統是很靠近的地方我問總統說您是否還支持代理孕母法案為什麼呢"},{"start":474.747,"end":503.269,"text":"因為他是台灣第一個提出代孕法案的立法委員在2002年賴總統兩次都回答我說我當然支持啊甚至說他要找執政黨立委來跟我溝通這代表說賴總統強調正是他所謂的想生但是因為生理或是身體有困難的話也是需要解決的問題那卓院長您在意此事嗎?您要推動嗎?還是幾位部長都異性南山呢?根本無法去體察民意呢?"},{"start":503.902,"end":532.932,"text":"我很清楚委員對於代理這個制度常年來推動我也很願意你願意推動嗎?賴總統這樣回答我你也可以跟他求證啊我們很願意往前跨一步衛福部經過多次的這個相關座談會跟相關的這個攤單位現在正反兩邊的意見還是有點懸殊我們必須做更多的社會沒有懸殊 院長你用的取樣是不對在平台上不能取樣你沒有用民意調查衛福部曾經把代孕放在行政院"},{"start":534.313,"end":554.429,"text":"但被姓平會否決掉了院長你根本出不了衛福部大門啊2024年其實衛福部公告的裡面內容是含著大運法案結果引來執政黨一群立委他就開記者會用這個失真的論述等一下我會談這個部分就是失真的論述逼迫衛福部"},{"start":554.989,"end":568.765,"text":"退縮然後說改口就說為何改口說要脫鉤處理先處理所謂的什麼女女的同志跟單身女性的部分然後再來用專法處理脫鉤處理專法的這個代孕的部分請問拖多久了"},{"start":569.804,"end":588.811,"text":"根本就零進度嘛我就了解根本就零進度啊所以事實上你們就是用專法脫鉤為名啊兩句話剛剛有報告那你也看得出來行政院是有在努力各方的嘗試再來至少這個問題漸漸會收斂到現在我們局限在幾大面向來做更多的社會溝通"},{"start":589.571,"end":612.655,"text":"我再跟您報告因為他們一直以用失真的論述一直以來有部分人是故意說代理育母是違反國際聯合國人權精神甚至說CEDAW直接禁止代孕但是聯合國從來沒有明文禁止代孕CEDAW的核心的問題是要消除對女性的歧視要保障女性自主要保障女性的生育自主權從來不是全面否定代孕制度"},{"start":613.635,"end":638.394,"text":"臺灣的反對代孕者錯誤的引用聯合國的報告它根本不是聯合國的正式報告它是一位聯合國的特別報告者叫 Reem Elsalam他曾經對商業代孕商業代孕的女性剝削風險提出批評跟離略但是特別報告員的意見不代表聯合國的意見聯合國正式公約的義務所以檢報上這位律師澳洲律師Steven Page他就指出"},{"start":639.195,"end":662.344,"text":"特別報告員沒有引用很重要的美中人權法案墨西哥最高法案哥倫比亞憲法法院的人權裁決這些裁決都提到訴求待遇是人權問題他就直接講human rights of assessing surrogacy也就是前述的特別報告員他刻意忽略了一些重要的因素"},{"start":664.145,"end":688.464,"text":"意見會公正嗎那部分執政黨立委就拿這個錯誤的論述簡化成說聯合國禁止代孕那拒絕理性的討論拒絕理性的討論我們怎麼樣建立一個周全的自主在這個醫療安全在知情同意在保障女性自主的前提下我們來避免商業剝削跟這個權力不對等啊就是用錯誤的論述啊院長就是今天我談的你都是可以去查證的"},{"start":689.525,"end":708.741,"text":"那剛剛您也提到目前政府對少子化的這個少子女化的這個對策就是補助補助再補助除了補助好像沒有其他更好的方法面對願意生養還是要面對願意生養但是有困難生養有生理問題即便科技科學醫學科技有解"},{"start":710.117,"end":725.754,"text":"一直存在一直訴求就是迴避院長您不覺得您對這一群人也是你的子民啊太殘忍了嗎我們對於人口對策你不覺得對我跟對我後面這一群人太殘忍了嗎兩個部分我們對人口對策除了多補助之外我們還有減負擔"},{"start":726.895,"end":746.79,"text":"還有多彈性還有減壓力不是那對於就是說現在社會其他的國家世界國家我們可以去吸引吸取這些已經合法代理孕母制度的國家他們執行之後對整個"},{"start":747.991,"end":775.876,"text":"婦女的自主權、社會價值、風險移轉有沒有值得我們可以學習的我希望衛生局學習這步從2018年到2025年政府為了處理少子女化的問題公編列了這個數字你可以查5931億但是台灣生育仍然是全世界倒數第一名近期是0.65你知道穩定人口數是要1.2所以等於我可以這樣講6千億如同石沉大海"},{"start":776.636,"end":791.261,"text":"石沉大海那我這樣說並不誇張部長你看這張圖你就知道了所以院長不好意思院長這張圖就是每個人都熟悉這張圖人口直直落就是花錢就如石沉大海"},{"start":792.361,"end":809.967,"text":"院長台灣勞工平均薪資4.8萬但是有70%的人低於平均那很多人都不敢生養小孩那就是怕陷入這個經濟的困境院長你看到這種雪崩式的出生人口我想請問你有感覺嗎你害怕嗎你擔心嗎你有沒有感覺"},{"start":810.387,"end":825.346,"text":"我們在2024年520之後就重新檢驗台灣的人口政策那麼到去年底我們再度發現比我們預期的狀況還要快速的往下降所以我們去年底就開始研究人口對策一個新的戰略"},{"start":826.066,"end":842.178,"text":"還有一件事因為政府一直在誇耀經濟成長率今年應該是高達8%我昨天看到還有一些說第一季有13點多但是我刻意問了我身邊的人包括立法院的購物車司機議事人員我過去的同事我問了很多人"},{"start":842.898,"end":867.721,"text":"他們不斷對你所謂的政府所謂的經濟成長率無感而且還說物價一直上漲我們的生活困難度越來越高所以院長試問如果他們都感覺自己養不好自己養不活自己那年輕世代誰敢生養小孩呢所以當政府在誇說經濟成長率一直提高那基層卻感覺生活是越來越困難你知道這樣會引起人民的反感"},{"start":868.857,"end":883.412,"text":"所以我們一直在從去年去年到現在尤其這三個月以來我們穩定我們的物價政府做了許多的努力所以物價CPI還是維持在單月都可能在2以下您可以學我一樣去問"},{"start":884.813,"end":901.338,"text":"我完全了解台灣的財富我問過幾個專家台灣的財富有50%以上有人說60%以上是集中在這個20萬到30萬人也就是1%那如果扣掉麻煩你聽清楚我的問題如果扣掉AI跟半導體產業的貢獻"},{"start":903.098,"end":920.331,"text":"那麼經濟成長率大概剩多少呢我是不是請院長拜託院長能夠責成主計總署將這個AI半導體的產業貢獻先排除然後再告訴我們這些以下來的這個去年排除高科技我們還有2.7%左右排除高科技那還是略高於其他的國家"},{"start":921.953,"end":936.094,"text":"院長麻煩你把這個數字跟計算方式用正式公文給我如果其他委員主計總數有現成的資料我可以提供給我們我們需要這個資料因為這麼少數人有感這麼多人無感你真的要考慮每一個人的感受"},{"start":936.795,"end":953.171,"text":"那之前出生率一直掉尾巴的男孩去年的生育率只跌回升增加到3.6%增加3.6%這張圖你看他往上翹那和生育率高度相關的這個結婚率也上升結婚率"},{"start":954.532,"end":974.704,"text":"我們大家都想知道南韓做對了什麼那除了增加當然您剛剛提到的育嬰津貼、育嬰假這些我們都有我知道可是南韓在去年6月他宣布怎麼樣呢他宣布他進入人口國家緊急狀態他那時候還有0.72我們近期才0.650.72就宣布國家進入緊急狀態他成立一個國家級的指揮中心"},{"start":981.161,"end":999.389,"text":"然後增加生育宅的供應量你殖民免稅提高然後提高男性的賠產價同事分攤業務的補貼因為你請假那同事要分攤業務還有有善育兒的企業的獎勵等等他的意思是讓整個社會來支持生育"},{"start":1000.109,"end":1023.218,"text":"用整個社會 男孩在2024年少子化的對策報告中檢討他過去發放的育兒津貼的思維他用全方位的方式來改善結構性的問題讓生育變成不是個懲罰 是個優惠他們有列出三件事情他們認為是造成阻卻生育的原因其實跟台灣很像一個就是房價 一個就是職涯中斷"},{"start":1024.438,"end":1043.748,"text":"就是因為你要照顧小孩等等那你的職業要中斷了嘛第三個就是生活成本高其實跟台灣是非常相像的那我們再來看台灣過去台灣十年的初結婚率這個有它的定義也在下跌喔那去年111人力銀行做了調查有八成的人表示"},{"start":1044.648,"end":1065.632,"text":"低薪高房價讓他們不敢結婚育兒那我們再看另外一個數字叫做去年台灣的房價所得比院長你知道房價所得比我是採用內政部的公式就是房價總價然後除以可支配的這個所得我們也是繼續攀升啦這個越高當然越恐怖啦院長你有講過台灣跟先進國家這些數字嗎有或沒有"},{"start":1067.072,"end":1089.06,"text":"我下面給你聽台灣在已開發國家非常的高我們大概是21到2525一定是台北韓國是22新加坡22到23日本是11到12英國德國是8到9法國加拿大是10美國是3到5那根據世界銀行跟這個國際注的研究合理是3到5偏高是5到8"},{"start":1090.2,"end":1113.081,"text":"負擔沉重價8到10嚴重失衡是大於10嚴重失衡是大於10我們台灣的平均是21到25這個非常非常失衡嚴重年輕人看不到未來當然他不要有下一代所以院長南韓也是高房價國家剛剛我也念到數字那這次南韓經驗非常清楚他20年來砸的錢是多少呢360兆韓元相當於7.5兆的這個"},{"start":1116.519,"end":1137.452,"text":"新台幣但是各種補貼都沒有用啊所以重點說怎麼樣讓社會有一個安心生養的氛圍整個社會讓我們安心生養這個氛圍不是讓生意成為一種懲罰或是說讓這個補貼成為一種好像補償金這個概念是不能存在的那我們談到房價政府一直說要打房"},{"start":1138.833,"end":1155.148,"text":"院長你也不會否認嘛本來在這一屆的總統競選的時候說以過去的基礎再增加大概13萬戶左右的社會住宅那現在是跳票我們看不到這個部分打房決心跟對年輕人的支持南韓祭出了非常嚴格的打房政策"},{"start":1155.788,"end":1171.725,"text":"他對於持有多房的官員他禁止參加房市政策的討論而且韓總統把自己的公寓低價賣出去了你知道他這種做法就是在告訴他們的人民說政府是玩真的"},{"start":1173.239,"end":1195.507,"text":"院長人性在這個政治環境裡面就會發揮到極致了就是當你每一個人看到新規或是新法的時候第一個就會想說這對我是好還是壞對我是有利還是有弊這是難免人性難免的所以為什麼我們做很多政策要排除利益既得所既得利益者而且政府官員要"},{"start":1196.687,"end":1204.22,"text":"以身作則才有效用所以院長政府的打房學金真的在嗎在哪裡國人還看不到"},{"start":1204.85,"end":1227.453,"text":"是 我也應該記得這個中央銀行有提出了七波的打草房的政策現在還在持續當中對房市有起碼的穩定另外我們也推出了至少穩定在現在這個階段那我們也推出了親安 新親安等等的策略那現在我們又從社會住宅衍生出青年住宅以及婚育宅就是希望給年輕人更多一層的保障"},{"start":1228.814,"end":1249.699,"text":"時間有限 院長您說穩定 甚至還不敢說有開始下降我只要告訴你說 那麼多年了 那麼久了就算有下降 您剛剛說是穩定而已就算有下降也無感了 因為太久了 漲幅實在太大了我們希望社會的經濟是穩穩的來做調整 而不是起伏太大這樣對誰都沒有實質上的好處的"},{"start":1251.599,"end":1276.489,"text":"穩穩的來穩穩穩的操控那我們希望這個年輕人可以得到更多的支持我們是嚴重失衡嘛在國際的標準我們是嚴重失衡我們是大於20嘛好 過年前賴總統說要保護這個民間的茶區民間 南投民間鄉那反對新建福文化舞這是賴總統講的喔但是年後3月15號他說南投縣這個垃圾要採雞尾酒療法可是沒有人懂得這個是什麼意思"},{"start":1276.869,"end":1290.439,"text":"那就是一個多重方式多元化的解決我要跟你說一些重要的資料4月16日農業部陳部長回答這個民間的焚化爐的內容他說焚化爐的場景現在都位於特定農地區農業區"},{"start":1292.461,"end":1315.135,"text":"那除非特殊情況是不可以改做其他用途而且他說我還沒有收到南投縣政府的農地變更申請也就是說農業部基本上是不同意農地變更的他跟賴總統的態度一樣就是說不贊成民間焚化爐的設立那既然如此那反對民間焚化爐的話這個清楚賴總統跟農業部為什麼財政部"},{"start":1318.757,"end":1327.963,"text":"國產署去年3月20號以行政院名義你看左邊用行政院名義核定給南投縣政府7.5公頃的國有土地為什麼還不撤銷"},{"start":1329.535,"end":1349.54,"text":"這樣子行政院是要跟總統作對嗎因為縣政府提出的跟財政部提出是用促參的方式的條文來提出那自己要怎麼使用的用途現在縣政府還在跟地方說他沒有提出來所以現在全責在縣政府那提出來之後農業部就會依照特定農業區使用的限制來做定奪"},{"start":1350.34,"end":1375.654,"text":"現在一切的所謂的活動包括他啟動焚化爐的環評包括他啟動這個範疇界定會議全部都根源於這一封信就是行政院的這個核准談你知道這個核准難讓農民居民多辛苦嗎大熱天要去抗爭然後要去面對這個南投縣環保局無理的這個刁難跟密集開會他根本沒辦法回家好好工作生活農民居民他每天都要工作"},{"start":1376.474,"end":1396.953,"text":"所以你要不要撤銷這個核准函呢這個核准函就是讓他就一直做下去啦移民現在的權限是在地方政府他只要依照他現在的使用目的提出的時候我們的農業部依照特定農業區另外環境部各部會也會來做最後的訂定那農業部的態度是非常清楚的你不要撤銷就對了啦"},{"start":1397.453,"end":1411.405,"text":"不是,他沒有提出來,我們現在沒案可以撤銷啊你跟院長,你跟總統的意見是不一樣好,我跟你講,我請你看一下10秒鐘的一張影片,這是民先將的這個環評在範疇界定會議室已經出現一堆程序問題了好,請院長看一下10秒鐘的影片我們剛剛有提到我們失效,我們可以直接進行實施開發單位不該講話"},{"start":1424.042,"end":1440.427,"text":"因為我要指的就是說在沒有討論替代方案之前開發單位代表也就是南投縣環保局局長李毅書他竟然指揮會議的主席說我們下午的會議議程是什麼然後這種讓地方政府求援兼裁判"},{"start":1441.047,"end":1462.765,"text":"自己來審查自己家開發的案件會議主席維持秩序的警察都是自己人你怎麼讓民眾相信說民間案的環評是獨立公正的呢更過分的是南投縣政府還安排連續兩天喔兩天的環評以前從來沒有人這樣做過喔讓這個疲勞轟炸這個與會的人民所以我的重點在這個地方院長"},{"start":1463.906,"end":1489.946,"text":"院長你能不能承諾地方政府環保局的開發案不宜自己求援兼裁判不宜自己來做評審是不是要拉回環境部拉回第三方由中央政府來審理呢因為這是最基本的利益衝突跟迴避啊可以嗎院長你可以承諾嗎有些該屬於地方層級完成的他必須要大的層級來處理你聽到我這樣講嗎就是自家"},{"start":1491.787,"end":1504.353,"text":"報告委員環天法現在的規定類似焚化爐這個事件的確是地方在審但是我們也會觀察這次的事件如果說他未來有違法的地方我們也會考慮要修法說回來兩位院長部長"},{"start":1507.114,"end":1535.834,"text":"自己家開發自己來審查求員兼裁判這個你們就要處理啊應該要換這個是基本原則啊不是你在看他公不公平合不合理居民都說不合理我幫他們開了五次記者會啦你們都有派人來啊我們也都有把委員的意見來喊轉南投縣政府院長那我回答院長院長你剛剛覺得我講話沒有道理嗎你自己求員兼裁判你家要開發你家自己整理你覺得這樣對嗎是但環評的程序也是行之多年"},{"start":1536.774,"end":1561.536,"text":"我再給你講當時形勢的問題對 他環評的程序形勢多年 如果當中出現了問題中央地方該來檢討的 我們就會檢討這樣你就是覺得說 就是自己去做啦不然我們需要中央政府嗎你剛說他如果是在特定能源區 到時候農業部一定會有清楚的態度農業部一定會講清楚的每個都是這樣子的你們要懂得什麼叫基本的利益迴避跟這個衝突跟迴避的問題"},{"start":1563.037,"end":1590.983,"text":"我想請兩位就是部長還有院長你好好思考我提一個原則性的問題好有請勞動部洪部長我想請洪部長你一邊來讓我一邊在念我的題目根據勞基法的規定勞工加班費會依據加班時數有每個小時1.34、1.67的倍率的計算方法我請教洪部長為什麼加班費要用倍率去計算"},{"start":1593.458,"end":1600.466,"text":"主要是避免勞工會有超時加班工作然後會造成這個身體上面或過勞的情況"},{"start":1601.451,"end":1628.539,"text":"我想大概ok啦八九十分ok啦補償勞工健康的耗損那避免資方濫用加班那鼓勵正常的工時就是所以才有這個倍數嘛好那謝謝部長我現在請問左院長那同樣道理難道公務員加班就不會過勞嗎就不會犧牲健康了嗎那院長你要不要支持調整加班費率讓公務員的辛苦能夠獲得回報啊"},{"start":1629.78,"end":1645.198,"text":"跟委員報告公務員的禁用啦等等包括他的全續考期跟勞工是不一樣的我們對公務員有其他的各種不同的福利措施我在談的是最基本的東西對他的身體對他的加班是不是合理"},{"start":1645.819,"end":1649.882,"text":"那為什麼勞工的加班費可以有這樣的倍數剛剛部長也回答了我也在做補充了那為什麼公務員不可以呢"},{"start":1663.291,"end":1683.601,"text":"為什麼公務員就沒有備註 這請你考慮嘛對 公務員還是有限制的啊健康跟犧牲 每天每月不得超過的時數對 公務員還是有限制的啊每人加班的時數 每天也不能超過時數然後每個月還限制40小時幾個小時內那公務員每月不得超過20小時 這個更嚴的限制啊"},{"start":1684.181,"end":1703.913,"text":"院長就是說那個思考你就說而且你在520的時候也說體恤軍公教人員研議調薪我這幾天也有看到新聞那我就請問那公務員這個調薪部分你的進度在哪裡你知道公務員現在的這個報考率很低然後甚至這個留任率也很低不再像以前我們講的那個鐵飯碗了耶"},{"start":1705.865,"end":1734.782,"text":"那你這個進度呢?這兩天有新聞啊你說大概調薪的東西這個有一些演繹啊公務員調薪有兩個時機一個就是一月一號開始用年度預算那如果現在公務員要在年中間調薪的話那我要請大院能夠支持追加預算你再看我一個數字齁就是你們審議軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案齁那個上面你看放多久了嘛那個感覺就是一再拖延一再跳票嘛就是說這個草案你什麼時候送到這個立法院來?"},{"start":1736.003,"end":1763.6,"text":"這個草案人事總署還在做最後的意見的總和還在吧對不對還在處理啊那這個好謝謝洪部長石部長你慢慢上來我在這一屆上任的第二天就去拜訪你我談到新藥納保納入健保這個審議進度要透明的議題那在多次的催促之下也謝謝你這個網站誕生了但是我收到一些民團的反應我想先請問部長"},{"start":1764.88,"end":1778.609,"text":"這個網站是不是公開透明 可受公平的會擔心被查閱嗎 檢核嗎就是您公布的那個網站對 可以查 大家都可以查那現在問題是說已經生效全部下架你覺得合理嗎已經生效的部分全部下架"},{"start":1780.13,"end":1797.23,"text":"這個資料應該是越完整越好啊英國NICE也是都留在那裡啊隨時可靠公民錢可以做比較啊那為什麼一過來就要下架呢跟委員報告因為它這個是屬於幾戶進度啦所以它進度完了就不在這上面它已經納入健保了我有三個問題喔因為時間有限第一個"},{"start":1800.333,"end":1822.239,"text":"為什麼已經結束 已經通過下架你不是學NICE嗎你還到去考察了第二個現在網站很陽春我希望在審核進度這個時間點能夠連結一些資料包括HTA 醫療科技包括 包括供你會記錄甚至病人反應的意見也可以做一些連結那第三個就是是不是可能藥品跟醫材都要試用這個原則"},{"start":1836.217,"end":1836.437,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:18.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:21.123000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:21.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:21.584000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:21.584000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:24.015000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:24.015000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:26.446000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:26.446000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:28.877000+08:00","text":"我們這場質詢詢答之後，您就可以好好休息一下，辛苦院長了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:28.877000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:31.308000+08:00","text":"不會，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:31.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:33.791000+08:00","text":"院長，我們過去都在擔心酒駕的問題，現在我們多了一項煩惱跟焦慮。毒駕。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:33.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:35.293000+08:00","text":"就是毒駕的問題，院長您知道為什麼毒駕越來越多了呢？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:22:50.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:22:59.800000+08:00","text":"毒駕的問題隨著整個新興毒品越來越多、越來越氾濫，而且年齡層下降，但重要的是我們現在有用唾液來篩檢，所以我們發現更多的毒駕……","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:23:00.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:23:13.292000+08:00","text":"院長，我直接告訴你答案，因為它的吸食太方便了，過去的毒品你可能要注射、要鼻吸、可能要躲在房間裡做等等，但是它現在太方便了，因為這涉及我的專業。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:23:13.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:23:14.292000+08:00","text":"連電子煙都可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:23:13.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:23:23.760000+08:00","text":"因為依托咪酯是醫療上的短效麻醉劑，它的藥效很強，一點點量就可以發揮作用，很容易融入煙油裡面，很容易吸收。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:23:24.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:23:24.881000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:23:24.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:23:46.776000+08:00","text":"甚至不用幾分鐘、幾十秒，它就可以讓人得到快感，現在氾濫成災，又很容易取得，所以請院長看一下這張圖，這是國健署提供的電子霧化器，他們用來吸食新興毒品，像依托咪酯，吸食者可以任意加入任何東西在霧化器裡面。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:23:47.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:24:21.254000+08:00","text":"剛剛我有提到，因為現在依托咪酯基於它的特性，又很容易取得，所以現在很多人把依托咪酯放在電子煙的霧化器裡面，他開車的時候隨手方便、想要就吸了一口，簡直非常方便，所以現在你可以看到毒駕的肇事案件，只要警察一搜，車上都搜出了依托咪酯，所以院長，這個事情非常嚴重，因為它吸食太方便了。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:24:22.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:24:38.565000+08:00","text":"現在公共政策平臺上有人在發起連署，他寫說希望政府把電子煙的霧化器列在毒品妨礙條例當中的一個毒品吸食工具來列管，您支持這樣的做法嗎？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:24:38.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:24:40.366000+08:00","text":"電子煙本來就是列管的違禁品。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:24:40.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:24:53.015000+08:00","text":"他現在是指那個載器，就是放的載具也要列管，因為過去它只是菸品的列管，現在要到毒品的列管，我不知道您的想法是否支持或同意？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:24:53.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:24:54.716000+08:00","text":"因為有人在連署了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:24:55.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:00.657000+08:00","text":"我們現在電子煙的載具已經是一個違法的違禁品，但是任何有助於……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:00.657000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:02.238000+08:00","text":"到了毒品的位階就不一樣喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:02.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:08.219000+08:00","text":"將這種吸毒的行為讓它減緩下來、遏止下來的任何的措施，我們都會努力研究。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:08.219000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:10.859000+08:00","text":"院長，我的意思是，放在毒品的條例是不一樣的，有販賣更嚴重喔！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:10.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:18.521000+08:00","text":"任何有助於防毒的措施，我們都會全力來研究，怎麼樣讓它有效成為處罰上可行的政策。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:18.521000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:19.521000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:19.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:34.294000+08:00","text":"院長，我今年也代表了立法院的世導團去WHA，今年大概有幾項突破，其中最重要一個突破大概應該是雙部長的出現，也就是林佳龍部長能夠出席一些重要的交流活動。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:34.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:41.360000+08:00","text":"我還看到從海內外、國內外大概超過兩百個人，從不同地方到日內瓦來為臺灣加油打氣。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:42.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:53.909000+08:00","text":"院長，我想請教你的是，因為我們進不去，到底在WHA會中，有多少邦交國跟非邦交國幫我們講話呢？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:54.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:55.070000+08:00","text":"你有掌握這個資訊嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:55.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:25:57.291000+08:00","text":"我不一定要知道是誰或多少，你有掌握這個資訊嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:25:57.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:11.560000+08:00","text":"每年5月下旬在WHA的盛會，都是我們國家在展現我們主體、主權的一個非常重要的場合，今年非常感謝有11個……","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:11.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:12.081000+08:00","text":"邦交國……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:12.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:20.506000+08:00","text":"有11個邦交國，就是正式組織的成員國中有11個國家在會中幫我們說話；另外，還有15個理念相近的國家，雖然跟我們沒有邦交……","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:20.506000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:22.267000+08:00","text":"非邦交國。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:22.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:24.789000+08:00","text":"也幫我們在裡面講出臺灣的重要性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:24.789000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:25.789000+08:00","text":"好，我了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:25.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:26.530000+08:00","text":"我們非常感謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:26.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:27.210000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，你有掌握。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:27.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:38.096000+08:00","text":"我要再請教你，從倡議加入WHA到今天29年，您覺得我們臺灣距離WHA是越來越近還是越來越遠？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:38.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:39.137000+08:00","text":"請問現在距離有多遠？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:39.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:40.117000+08:00","text":"我們每次都到門口。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:40.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:42.078000+08:00","text":"到門口，但是進不去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:43.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:43.619000+08:00","text":"還要再努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:43.619000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:45.019000+08:00","text":"你覺得是越來越近還是越來越遠？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:45.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:26:57.384000+08:00","text":"因為國際政治的現實，以及中國刻意的打壓，他不發邀請等等，在這個過程當中，儘量地要打壓臺灣，但是我們都會據理力爭，至少我們可以做的，我們做到極致。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:26:58.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:01.146000+08:00","text":"院長，我們29年來還是站在門口，這個是一個事實。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:01.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:03.987000+08:00","text":"我本來要問你說，到底越來越近還是越來越遠？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:03.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:19.635000+08:00","text":"院長，因為川習會當中，美中兩個大國所提到最重要的問題竟然是臺灣問題，我沒有想到我們3位立委在跟瑞士的國會議員交流時候，他們竟然提出了這個問題來問我們，結果兩個大黨推我先講，後來我們3位都發言了。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:21.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:23.617000+08:00","text":"當然我講了不少，我一開始就說：非常遺憾！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:24.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:33.042000+08:00","text":"兩個國家在討論臺灣，但是臺灣不在場，所以我們似乎沒有權力去掌握我們自己的命運。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:33.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:39.906000+08:00","text":"我現在要請問院長，您認為臺灣跟中國的最適當的距離是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:39.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:45.369000+08:00","text":"在維護國家主權的同時，能不能避免被國際組織排除？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:45.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:55.717000+08:00","text":"尤其是我們的強項：健康、醫療、照護、及公衛，這些都是我們強項，在面對WHA及WHO的時候，您認為我們最適距離是什麼？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:55.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:27:56.518000+08:00","text":"可以簡單回答嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰：分兩種","start":"2026-05-26T11:27:57.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:28:20.305000+08:00","text":"第一個，我覺得臺灣跟中國的交流，我們願意在健康有序、平等且尊嚴的狀況之下，直接的與他交流；第二個，如果要防制中國武力的各種威脅，臺灣應該結合跟我們理念相近國家一起形成一個民主、防禦及堅強的夥伴，就是維持印太地區的整個安全與穩定，這兩個部分要分開來談。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:28:20.305000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:28:21.305000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:28:21.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:28:25.769000+08:00","text":"我一直是想能夠聽到更具體的答案，不過這是您大概一向的標準答案，也是用了很多年了。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:28:26.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:28:36.116000+08:00","text":"院長，我就是把我們遇到的狀況讓院長知道，他們是直接對我們提問，想了解我們身為民意代表的想法是什麼？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:28:36.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:28:52.088000+08:00","text":"院長，有關面對少子女化的問題，賴總統在2022年及2023年擔任副總統時，當時他接見幼鐸獎得獎人的時候，他講了一句話：年輕夫妻家庭如果因為生理因素而沒辦法生，政府應該要優先解決。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:28:52.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:29:13.809000+08:00","text":"而且他在執政2週年的演講中，他也再度提到年輕人想生，但卻因為生理因素沒有辦法生等等，也就是總統一直以來，他都把這個問題很清楚放在心上，臺灣社會上一直存在一群人，他們想生但因為身體跟生理的因素，而沒有辦法如願，他認為政府是有責任要協助解決。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:29:13.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:29:20.814000+08:00","text":"請問院長，民進黨少子女化的政策對於生理因素無法生育的解決方案是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:29:20.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:29:27.439000+08:00","text":"政府的政策，不僅希望大家能夠多生育，對於這種因為生理狀態無法生育的人，我們也願意……","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:29:27.439000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:29:29.381000+08:00","text":"請你直接回答我，你們的政策是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:29:29.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:29:32.943000+08:00","text":"從人工生殖各方面來進行所必要的一些補助。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:29:32.943000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:29:34.545000+08:00","text":"好，人工生殖補助。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:29:34.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:29:55.059000+08:00","text":"院長，我就知道你們一直談補助，但是卻無視一群先天、後天子宮或其他重大疾病、直接相關疾病及子宮有病變的人，你們就是放任代理孕母制度被醜化、黑化，而且讓人工生殖法年久失修，一直就是不願去面對。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:29:55.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:04.646000+08:00","text":"院長，我必須跟你報告，我擔任立委以來，我兩回遇到賴總統，在很靠近的狀況下，我問總統說：「您是否還支持代理孕母法案？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:05.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:05.387000+08:00","text":"」為什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:05.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:08.889000+08:00","text":"因為在2002年，他是臺灣第一個提出代孕法案的立法委員。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:12.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:15.494000+08:00","text":"賴總統兩次都回答我說：「我當然支持啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:16.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:18.837000+08:00","text":"」甚至他要找執政黨立委來跟我溝通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:19.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:27.504000+08:00","text":"這代表賴總統強調的正是他所謂的「想生，但是因為生理或身體有困難的」，是需要解決的問題。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:27.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:29.265000+08:00","text":"卓院長，您在意此事嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:29.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:30.406000+08:00","text":"您要推動嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:30.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:34.249000+08:00","text":"還是幾位部長都意興闌珊，根本無法體察民意呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:34.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:39.704000+08:00","text":"我很清楚委員對於代理制度長年來的推動，我也很願意請……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:40.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:43.065000+08:00","text":"你願意推動嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:43.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:44.365000+08:00","text":"賴總統這樣回答我，你也可以跟他求證啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:45.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:51.308000+08:00","text":"我們很願意往前跨一步，衛福部經過多次相關的座談會，跟相關的單位……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:51.308000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:52.368000+08:00","text":"不、不、不，院長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:52.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:54.869000+08:00","text":"現在正反兩邊的意見還是有點懸殊。院長……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:55.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:56.789000+08:00","text":"我們必須做更多的社會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:56.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:30:56.909000+08:00","text":"沒有懸殊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:30:57.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:31:00.811000+08:00","text":"院長，你用的取樣是不對的，在平台上不能取樣，你沒有用民意調查。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:31:01.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:31:08.335000+08:00","text":"衛福部曾經把代孕送到行政院，但被性平會否決掉了。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:31:08.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:31:11.177000+08:00","text":"院長，你任內根本出不了衛福部大門啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:31:12.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:31:38.384000+08:00","text":"其實2024年衛福部公告的內容裡面是含代孕法案，結果引來執政黨一群立委開記者會，等一下我會談這個部分，用失真的論述逼迫衛福部退縮，然後衛福部就改口說要脫鉤處理，先處理所謂的女女同志跟單身女性的部分，之後再用專法脫鉤處理代孕的部分。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:31:39.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:31:43.285000+08:00","text":"請問拖多久了，根本就零進度嘛，就我了解根本是零進度啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:31:43.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:31:46.866000+08:00","text":"所以事實上，你們是用專法脫鉤為名，就擺爛放著。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:31:48.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:31:59.791000+08:00","text":"兩句話跟委員報告，你也看得出來行政院是有在努力及進行各方的嘗試，再來，至少這個問題漸漸會收斂，到現在我們侷限在幾大面向來做更多的社會溝通。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:32:00.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:32:23.635000+08:00","text":"院長，我再跟您報告，因為他們一直用失真的論述，一直以來，有部分人士故意說代理孕母是違反聯合國人權精神，甚至說CEDAW直接禁止代孕，但是聯合國從來沒有明文禁止代孕，CEDAW的核心問題是要消除對女性的歧視，要保障女性自主，要保障女性的生育自主權，從來不是全面否定代孕制度。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:32:24.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:32:45.271000+08:00","text":"臺灣的反對代孕者錯誤地引用聯合國的報告，它根本不是聯合國的正式報告，他是一位聯合國的特別報告者叫Reem Alsalem，他曾經對商業代孕的女性剝削風險提出批評跟疑慮，但是特別報告員的意見不代表聯合國的意見、聯合國正式公約的義務。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:32:45.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:33:16.526000+08:00","text":"院長，所以簡報上這位澳洲律師Stephen Page，他就指出特別報告員沒有引用很重要的美洲人權法案、墨西哥最高法院或哥倫比亞憲法法院的人權裁決，這些裁決都提到訴求代孕是人權問題，他就直接講human rights of assessive surrogacy，也就是前述的那位特別報告員，他刻意忽略了一些重要的因素，這樣的意見會公正嗎？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:33:17.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:33:36.522000+08:00","text":"部分執政黨立委就拿這個錯誤的論述簡化成聯合國禁止代孕，拒絕理性的討論，即拒絕理性的討論我們要怎麼樣建立一個周全的制度，在醫療安全、在知情同意、在保障女性自主的前提下，我們來避免商業剝削跟權利不對等，就是用錯誤的論述啊！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:33:37.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:33:39.444000+08:00","text":"院長，今天我談的，你都是可以去查證。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:33:41.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:33:50.173000+08:00","text":"剛剛你也提到目前政府對少子女化的對策，就是補助、補助再補助，除了補助，好像沒有其他更好的方法。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:33:50.173000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:33:52.856000+08:00","text":"有、有、有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:33:52.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:03.680000+08:00","text":"還是一樣，面對願意生養，但是有生養困難、有生理問題，即便醫學科技有解……一直存在、一直訴求卻就是迴避！","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:04.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:08.885000+08:00","text":"院長，您不覺得您對這一群人，也是你的子民啊，太殘忍了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:08.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:10.027000+08:00","text":"我們對於人口對策……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:10.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:13.871000+08:00","text":"你不覺得對我跟對我後面這一群人太殘忍了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:13.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:18.496000+08:00","text":"有兩個部分，我們對人口對策，除了多補助之外還有減負擔，還有多彈性……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:18.496000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:19.496000+08:00","text":"院長，你還是避談嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:19.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:20.277000+08:00","text":"還有減壓力……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:20.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:21.277000+08:00","text":"你還是避談嘛！不是……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:21.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:22.277000+08:00","text":"你還是避談嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:21.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:24.560000+08:00","text":"對於現在世界上其他的國家……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:24.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:27.382500+08:00","text":"賴總統……三十幾個國家都一樣啦！","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:27.382500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:30.205000+08:00","text":"最愛的美國，49州都通過了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:30.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:37.530000+08:00","text":"對，我們可以去吸取這些已經有合法代理孕母制度的國家，他們執行之後……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:37.530000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:38.530000+08:00","text":"院長，我希望……我不願每一次的總質詢……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:37.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:34:46.432000+08:00","text":"對整個婦女的自主權、社會價值、風險移轉，有沒有值得我們可以學習的，我希望衛福部去學習這部分……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:34:47.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:04.235000+08:00","text":"院長，要學習的很多，從2018年到2025年，政府為了處理少子女化的問題共編列了5,931億，這個數字你可以查，但是臺灣的生育率仍然是全世界倒數第一名，近期是0.65，你知道穩定人口數是要1.2！","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:04.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:06.856000+08:00","text":"我可以這樣講，6,000億如同石沉大海！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:09.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:22.241000+08:00","text":"我這樣說並不誇張，院長，你看這張圖就知道了，每個人都熟悉這張圖，就是人口直直落，花錢如同石沉大海。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:23.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:34.225000+08:00","text":"院長，臺灣勞工平均薪資4.8萬，但是有70%的人低於平均，很多人都不敢生養小孩，就是怕陷入經濟的困境。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:34.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:39.046000+08:00","text":"院長，你看到這種雪崩式的出生人口數，我想請問，你有感覺嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:39.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:39.867000+08:00","text":"你害怕嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:39.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:40.647000+08:00","text":"你擔心嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:40.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:40.967000+08:00","text":"你有沒有感覺？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:41.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:52.100000+08:00","text":"我們在2024年520之後就重新檢驗臺灣的人口政策，到去年底，我們再度發現比我們預期的狀況還要快速地下降。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:52.100000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:53.100000+08:00","text":"還要嚴重……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:52.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:35:56.326000+08:00","text":"所以我們去年底就開始研究人口對策的一個新的戰略。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:35:57.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:36:21.665000+08:00","text":"院長，還有一件事，因為政府一直在誇耀經濟成長率，譬如說，今年應該是高達8%，我昨天看到還有一些人說第一季有十三點多，但是我刻意問了我身邊的人，包括立法院的公務車司機、議事人員、我過去的同事，我問了很多人，他們不斷地表示對政府所謂的經濟成長率無感，而且還說物價一直上漲，生活困難度越來越高。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:36:22.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:36:30.133000+08:00","text":"所以試問院長，如果他們都感覺養不好自己、養不活自己，那年輕世代誰敢生養小孩呢？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:36:31.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:36:38.701000+08:00","text":"當政府在誇說經濟成長率一直提高，基層卻感覺生活是越來越困難，你知道這樣會引起人民的反感，你沒有感覺嗎？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:36:39.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:36:53.031000+08:00","text":"是，所以我們從去年到現在，尤其這三個月以來，就穩定物價方面，政府做了許多的努力，因此物價CPI都可能還是維持在單月2%以下。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:36:53.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:36:54.412000+08:00","text":"院長，您可以學我一樣去問很基層的人。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:36:55.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:36:57.854000+08:00","text":"我知道，我知道那種感受，我完全了解。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:36:59.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:07.836000+08:00","text":"院長，我問過幾個專家，臺灣的財富有50%以上，有人說60%以上，是集中在20萬到30萬人，也就是1%。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:09.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:15.999000+08:00","text":"院長，麻煩您聽清楚我的問題，如果扣掉AI跟半導體產業的貢獻，經濟成長率大概剩多少呢？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:16.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:25.486000+08:00","text":"我是不是請院長、拜託院長能夠責成主計總處將AI、半導體產業貢獻先排除，然後再告訴我們這些留下來的經濟成長率。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:25.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:28.028000+08:00","text":"去年排除高科技，我們還有2.7左右。2.7？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:28.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:31.311000+08:00","text":"排除高科技，還是略高於其他的國家。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:32.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:37.940000+08:00","text":"院長，麻煩您把這個數字跟計算方式用正式公文給我，如果其他委員也需要。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:37.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:39.943000+08:00","text":"主計總處有現成的資料，我可以提供給委員及大家。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:40.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:37:47.074000+08:00","text":"我們需要這個資料，因為這麼少數人有感，這麼多人無感，你真的要考慮每一個人的感受。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:37:48.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:38:02.770000+08:00","text":"之前出生率一直掉尾巴的南韓，去年的生育率止跌回升，增加到3.6%，你看這張圖還往上翹，和生育率高度相關的結婚率也上升。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:38:05.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:38:09.835000+08:00","text":"院長，我們都想知道南韓做對了什麼？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:38:11.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:38:50.369000+08:00","text":"當然，您剛剛提到的育嬰津貼、育嬰假，我知道這些我們都有，可是南韓在去年6月宣布進入人口國家緊急狀態，那時候他們還有0.72，我們近期才0.65，他們0.72就宣布國家進入緊急狀態，並且成立一個國家級的指揮中心，然後增加生育宅公寓的供應量、子女免稅額提高、提高男性的陪產假及同事分攤業務的補貼，因為你請假，同事要分攤業務，還有友善育兒的企業獎勵等等，意思是用整個社會來支持生育。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:38:52.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:04.414000+08:00","text":"南韓在2024年少子化的對策報告中，檢討他過去發放育兒津貼的思維，用全方位的方式來改善結構性的問題，讓生育變成不是懲罰而是優惠。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:05.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:22.442000+08:00","text":"他們有列入三件事情，認為是造成阻卻生育的原因，其實跟臺灣很像，一個是房價，一個是職涯中斷，因為你要照顧小孩等等，導致你的職涯中斷，第三個就是生活成本高，其實跟臺灣是非常相像的。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:23.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:28.625000+08:00","text":"我們再來看臺灣，過去臺灣十年的粗結婚率，這個有它的定義，也在下跌！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:30.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:38.792000+08:00","text":"去年1111人力銀行做了調查，有八成的人表示低薪高房價讓他們不敢結婚育兒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:39.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:52.847000+08:00","text":"我們再看另外一個數字，即去年臺灣的房價所得比，我是採用內政部的公式，就是房價總價除以可支配的所得，我們也是繼續攀升，這個越高當然越恐怖。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:53.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:56.191000+08:00","text":"院長，你有掌握臺灣跟先進國家的這些數字嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:56.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:56.612000+08:00","text":"有或沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:56.612000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:58.072000+08:00","text":"臺灣的負擔……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:58.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:39:59.393000+08:00","text":"我稍微唸給你聽。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:39:59.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:40:03.934000+08:00","text":"臺灣和已開發國家比非常得高，我們大概是21到25，其中25一定是臺北。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:40:05.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:40:13.257000+08:00","text":"韓國是22，新加坡22到23，日本是11到12，英國、德國是8到9，法國、加拿大是10，美國是3到5。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:40:13.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:40:26.465000+08:00","text":"根據世界銀行與國際住宅研究顯示，合理是3到5，偏高是5到8，負擔沉重是8到10，嚴重失衡是大於10，嚴重失衡是大於10！","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:40:26.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:40:34.112000+08:00","text":"而我們臺灣的平均是21到25，足見失衡非常非常嚴重，讓年輕人看不到未來，當然也不要有下一代。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:40:35.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:40:39.377000+08:00","text":"院長，南韓也是高房價國家，剛剛我有唸到數字。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:40:39.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:40:42.640000+08:00","text":"從這次南韓的經驗可以非常清楚知道，南韓這二十年來砸的錢是多少？","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:40:43.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:41:05.150000+08:00","text":"360兆韓元，相當於7.5兆新臺幣，但其實各種補貼都沒有用，重點在於怎麼讓社會有一個安心生養的氛圍，而且是整個社會讓我們有安心生養的氛圍，不是讓生育成為一種懲罰，或讓補貼成為一種補償金，我認為這種概念是不能存在的。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:41:06.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:41:10.894000+08:00","text":"談到房價，政府一直說要打房，我想院長也不會否認。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:41:11.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:41:21.664000+08:00","text":"原本這一屆總統競選時曾說，以過去的基礎再增加大概13萬戶左右的社會住宅，但現在跳票了，我們看不到政府打房的決心與對年輕人的支持。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:41:22.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:41:42.705000+08:00","text":"南韓祭出了非常嚴格的打房政策，禁止持有多房的官員參加房市政策的討論，而且南韓總統把自己的公寓低價賣出，這種做法就是在告訴人民：政府是玩真的。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:41:44.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:41:56.163000+08:00","text":"院長，人性在政治環境裡會發揮到極致，當一個人看到新規、新法時，第一個會想到的是：這對我是好、還是壞？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:41:56.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:41:57.764000+08:00","text":"對我是有利、還是有弊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:41:58.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:41:59.164000+08:00","text":"這是人性所難免的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:41:59.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:09.530000+08:00","text":"為什麼很多政策要排除既得利益者，而且政府官員要以身作則才有效用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:10.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:13.738000+08:00","text":"所以院長，政府打房的決心真的在嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:13.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:14.539000+08:00","text":"在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:14.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:15.200000+08:00","text":"國人還看不到！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:16.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:23.818000+08:00","text":"委員應該還記得中央銀行提出了七波的打炒房政策，現在還在持續當中，這對於房市有起碼的穩定。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:24.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:25.340000+08:00","text":"另外，我們也推出了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:25.340000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:26.941000+08:00","text":"有成功嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:26.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:28.323000+08:00","text":"至少穩定在現在這個階段。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:28.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:38.433000+08:00","text":"我們也推出了青安、新青安等等策略，現在又從社會住宅衍生出青年住宅以及婚育宅，就是希望給年輕人更多一層的保障。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:39.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:39.934000+08:00","text":"院長，謝謝你，時間有限。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:40.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:42.835000+08:00","text":"院長，你說穩定，卻不敢說有開始下降。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:43.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:48.516000+08:00","text":"我只是想告訴你，那麼多年了、那麼久了，就算有下降也無感了，而你剛剛說穩定而已。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:51.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:42:54.157000+08:00","text":"畢竟太久了，漲幅實在太大了！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:42:54.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:00.679000+08:00","text":"我們希望社會經濟是穩穩的來做調整，而不是起伏太大，這樣對誰都沒有實質上的好處。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:02.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:06.641000+08:00","text":"穩穩的來，穩穩的操控，我們希望可以讓年輕人得到更多支持。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:06.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:07.481000+08:00","text":"總之我們是嚴重失衡的。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:08.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:10.002000+08:00","text":"以國際標準來看，我們是嚴重失衡！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:10.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:10.442000+08:00","text":"是，我們要調整。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:10.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:10.703000+08:00","text":"我們大於20。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:12.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:19.286000+08:00","text":"過年前賴總統說要保護南投名間的茶區與文化，反對興建焚化爐，這是賴總統講的。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:20.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:27.469000+08:00","text":"但在年後的3月15號，他又說南投縣的垃圾要採雞尾酒療法，可是沒有人懂這是什麼意思。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:27.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:31.472000+08:00","text":"就是一個多重方式、多元化的解決。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:31.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:33.754000+08:00","text":"我跟你講一些重要的資料。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:34.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:51.726000+08:00","text":"4月16日農業部陳部長回答名間焚化爐的問題時提到，焚化爐的場址現在位於特定農業區，除非有特殊情況，否則不可以改作其他用途，而且他說還沒有收到南投縣政府的農地變更申請。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:51.726000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:43:52.726000+08:00","text":"沒錯、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:43:51.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:44:00.632000+08:00","text":"也就是說，農業部基本上不同意農地變更，他跟賴總統的態度一樣，不贊成名間焚化爐的設立。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:44:01.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:44:17.762000+08:00","text":"既然賴總統和農業部清楚反對名間焚化爐，為什麼財政部國產署在去年3月20日以行政院名義……你看，用行政院名義核定給南投縣政府7.5公頃的國有土地？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:44:18.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:44:18.963000+08:00","text":"為什麼還不撤銷？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:44:20.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:44:22.656000+08:00","text":"行政院這是要跟總統作對嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:44:22.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:44:35.219000+08:00","text":"不是，因為縣政府向財政部提出的，是用促參方式與條文來提出，至於要怎麼使用與用途，現在縣政府還在跟地方說明當中，尚未提出，所以現在權責在縣政府。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:44:35.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:44:40.540000+08:00","text":"提出來之後，農業部就會依照特定農業區使用的限制來做定奪。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:44:41.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:44:55.668000+08:00","text":"現在一切的活動，包括啟動焚化爐的環評，包括啟動範疇界定會議，全部都根源於這一封信，就是行政院的核准函，您知道這個核准函讓農民、居民多辛苦嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:44:55.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:09.416000+08:00","text":"大熱天要去抗爭，然後要去面對南投縣環保局無理的刁難與密集開會，他們根本沒有辦法回家好好工作和生活，農民、居民每天都要工作啊，所以你要不要撤銷這個核准函呢？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:10.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:11.958000+08:00","text":"這個核准函就是讓他們一直做下去了啊，明明賴總統也反對啊！","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:13.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:25.891000+08:00","text":"委員，現在的權限是在地方政府，他們只要依照現在的使用目的提出的時候，我們的農業部依照特定農業區，環境部及各部會也會來做最後定奪，農業部的態度是非常清楚的。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:26.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:27.833000+08:00","text":"院長，我聽懂了，你的意思是不要撤銷就對了，你不想正面回答……","quality":0.32},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:28.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:30.735000+08:00","text":"不是，他沒有提出來，我們現在沒案可以撤銷啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:31.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:33.377000+08:00","text":"你跟總統的意見是不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:33.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:41.344000+08:00","text":"好，我請你看一下10秒鐘的影片，這是名間鄉的環評，在範疇界定會議已經出現一堆程序問題了，請院長看一下10秒鐘的影片。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:41.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:45:55.302000+08:00","text":"（播放影片）","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:45:55.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:46:22.716000+08:00","text":"院長，我要指出的是，在沒有討論替代方案之前，開發單位代表，也就是南投縣環保局局長李易書，他竟然指揮會議主席說下午的會議議程是什麼，這種讓地方政府球員兼裁判，自己審查自家開發的案件，會議主席、維持秩序的警察都是自己人，你怎麼讓民眾相信名間案的環評是獨立公正的呢？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:46:23.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:46:31.603000+08:00","text":"更過分的是，南投縣政府還安排連續兩天的環評會，以前從來沒有人這樣做過，疲勞轟炸與會的人民。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:46:32.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:46:49.977000+08:00","text":"所以我的重點在這個地方，院長，你能不能承諾地方政府環保局的開發案不宜自己球員兼裁判、不宜自己來做評審，是不是要拉回環境部、拉回第三方，由中央政府來審理呢？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:46:50.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:46:54.841000+08:00","text":"因為這是最基本的利益衝突和迴避，可以嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:46:54.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:46:55.882000+08:00","text":"院長可以承諾嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:46:55.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:46:59.805000+08:00","text":"中央、地方有分工的，有些屬於地方層級該完成的就必須要由地方層級來處理，我請部長來說明。","quality":0.487},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:00.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:00.926000+08:00","text":"不是，您聽到我這樣講啊，就是自家球員兼裁判！","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:02.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:15.073000+08:00","text":"報告委員，依照環評法現在的規定，類似焚化爐的事件的確是地方在審，但是我們也會觀察這次的事件，如果它未來有違法的地方，我們也會考慮修法收回來……","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:15.073000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:16.073000+08:00","text":"沒有啦，我在跟你講基本原則，兩位！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:15.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:23.858000+08:00","text":"院長、部長，自己家開發自己來審查，球員兼裁判，這個你們就要處理啊！","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:24.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:33.124000+08:00","text":"應該要換，這個是基本原則，不是看公不公平、合不合理，居民都說不合理，我幫他們開了5次記者會，你們也都有派人來，可是……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:33.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:37.227000+08:00","text":"對，我們也都有把委員意見函轉南投縣政府。院長！院長！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:37.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:38.028000+08:00","text":"我回到院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:38.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:40.529000+08:00","text":"院長，您覺得我剛剛的講話沒有道理嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:40.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:44.772000+08:00","text":"你自己球員兼裁判，你家要開發，你家自己審理，你覺得這樣對嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:44.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:46.814000+08:00","text":"是，但是環評程序也是行之多年，當中……不是！","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:47.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:50.076000+08:00","text":"院長，我在跟你談高層次的問題。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:50.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:56.302000+08:00","text":"環評的程序行之多年，如果當中出現問題，中央、地方該來檢討的，我們就會檢討。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:56.302000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:57.302000+08:00","text":"不對啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:56.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:47:59.945000+08:00","text":"你就是覺得自己去做啦，不然我們需要中央政府嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:59.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:00.945000+08:00","text":"我們需要中央政府嗎？不是！不是！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:47:59.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:06.311000+08:00","text":"你剛剛說，如果是在特定農業區，到時候農業部一定會有清楚的態度，農業部已經講清楚了……","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:06.311000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:07.772000+08:00","text":"你知道立法委員擔任職務有多少要利益迴避的嗎？","quality":0.048},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:07.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:18.658000+08:00","text":"每個案子都是這樣的，你們要懂得什麼叫基本的利益衝突跟迴避問題，我請院長跟部長好好思考，我是提出原則性的問題。好。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:18.658000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:19.658000+08:00","text":"謝謝彭部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:19.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:20.878000+08:00","text":"接下來有請勞動部洪部長。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:21.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:23.519000+08:00","text":"洪部長，您一邊走上來，我一邊來唸我的題目。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:24.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:41.963000+08:00","text":"洪部長，根據勞基法的規定，勞工加班費會依據加班時數而有每小時工資額1.34倍、1.67倍的倍率計算方法，請教洪部長，為什麼加班費要用倍率去計算？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:44.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:48:51.466000+08:00","text":"主要是避免勞工超時加班工作，造成身體上過勞的情況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:48:52.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:04.034000+08:00","text":"我想大概OK啦，80、90分OK啦，就是補償勞工健康的耗損，避免資方濫用加班，鼓勵正常的工時，所以才有這個倍數嘛！是。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:05.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:05.895000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:05.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:11.377000+08:00","text":"我現在要請問卓院長，同樣道理，難道公務員加班就不會過勞嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:11.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:13.137000+08:00","text":"就不會犧牲健康了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:13.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:19.519000+08:00","text":"院長，你要不要支持調整加班費率，讓公務員的辛苦能夠獲得回報？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:20.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:30.752000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，公務員的進用等等，包括他的銓敘、考績跟勞工是不一樣的，我們對公務員有其他各種不同的福利措施。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:30.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:40.862000+08:00","text":"院長，我在談的是最基本的東西，是原則，對他的身體、他的加班是不是合理，資方要怎麼樣來處理等等，我談的不是……這個跟銓敘、進用都不相關的，為什麼勞工加班費可以有倍數，剛剛部長有回答了，我也做過補充了，為什麼公務員不可以呢？","quality":0.635},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:40.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:54.291000+08:00","text":"我們還是有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:54.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:55.212000+08:00","text":"為什麼公務員就沒有倍數？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:55.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:56.332000+08:00","text":"這個請你考慮嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:56.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:58.113000+08:00","text":"對公務員還是有限制的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:58.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:49:59.313000+08:00","text":"健康跟犧牲……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:49:59.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:02.495000+08:00","text":"每天每月不得超過的時數……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:02.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:03.495000+08:00","text":"沒有啦，我認識的公務員都很辛苦啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:02.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:04.196000+08:00","text":"對公務員還是有限制的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:04.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:08.378000+08:00","text":"每人加班的時數，每天也不能超過……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:08.378000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:09.378000+08:00","text":"勞工也有啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:08.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:10.139000+08:00","text":"勞工每個月還限制40小時呢！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:11.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:14.581000+08:00","text":"對，公務員每月不得超過20小時，這個是更嚴的限制啊！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:15.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:27.469000+08:00","text":"院長，就是說那個思考……而且你在520的時候也說要體恤軍公教人員，要研議調薪，我這幾天也有看到新聞，我就請問了，公務員調薪的進度在哪裡？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:28.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:37.686000+08:00","text":"公務員現在的報考率很低，甚至留任率也很低，不再像以前我們講的鐵飯碗了耶，這個進度呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:38.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:41.988000+08:00","text":"這兩天有新聞啊，您說調薪的部分有一些研議了，有進度嗎？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:41.988000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:42.988000+08:00","text":"你有進度了嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:42.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:50:53.395000+08:00","text":"公務員調薪有兩個時機，一個就是1月1號開始用年度預算，如果公務員要年中間調薪的話，我要請大院能夠支持追加預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:50:53.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:02.681000+08:00","text":"院長，請您再看一個數字，你們審議軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案，請你看一下那個放多久了，感覺就是一再拖延、一再跳票嘛！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:03.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:05.782000+08:00","text":"這個草案什麼時候送到立法院來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:07.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:10.145000+08:00","text":"人事總處還在做最後的意見總合。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:10.145000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:11.145000+08:00","text":"你看吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:10.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:11.706000+08:00","text":"還在吧，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:11.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:12.146000+08:00","text":"還在處理啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:14.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:16.449000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:16.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:38.022000+08:00","text":"石部長，你慢慢上來，我在這一屆上任的第二天就去拜訪您，我談到新藥納入健保審議進度要透明的議題，在多次的催促之下，也謝謝你讓這個網站誕生了，但是我收到一些民團的反映，我想先請問部長，這個網站是不是公開透明、可受公評的？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:38.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:40.723000+08:00","text":"會擔心被查閱、檢核嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:40.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:41.884000+08:00","text":"就是您公布的網站。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:42.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:44.045000+08:00","text":"對，可以查，大家都可以查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:44.045000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:45.045000+08:00","text":"好，可以查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:44.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:47.868000+08:00","text":"現在的問題是，已經生效的全部下架，你覺得合理嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:47.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:49.589000+08:00","text":"已經生效的部分全部下架？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:51.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:51:59.220000+08:00","text":"這個資料應該是越完整越好，人家英國NICE也是留在那裡，隨時可做查閱，隨時可以做比較，為什麼過了就要下架呢？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:59.220000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:00.220000+08:00","text":"這個請你考慮。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-05-26T11:51:59.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:07.089000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為這個是屬於給付進度，所以它進度完成就不再這個上面，已經納入健保了，納入健保後我們有另外一個查……","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:52:07.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:16.715000+08:00","text":"部長，因為時間有限，我有三個問題想請問，這是第一個，為什麼已經通過的要下架，你不是學NICE嗎？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:52:16.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:17.595000+08:00","text":"你們還去考察了啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:52:18.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:33.239000+08:00","text":"第二個，現在的網站很陽春，我希望審核進度的這個時間點可以連結一些資料，包含HTA醫療科技報告、包括共擬會紀錄，甚至病人反映的意見也可以做一些連結；第三個，是不是藥品和醫材都要適用這個原則？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-05-26T11:52:33.739000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:47.453286+08:00","text":"醫材比藥先納入，現在是藥也納入了，這是當初我們有承諾委員的，我們就先做了，至於未來的優化，我們再來持續檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-05-26T11:52:47.753286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:56.324714+08:00","text":"我剛剛提到的那些點，就麻煩部長好好考慮，謝謝院長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-26T11:52:56.624714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:52:58.053286+08:00","text":"謝謝陳委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-26T11:52:58.353286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:53:05.781857+08:00","text":"好，謝謝陳昭姿委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","quality":0.192},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-26T11:53:06.081857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:53:14.367571+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱委員質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員鍾佳濱書面質詢","start":"2026-05-26T11:53:14.667571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:53:33.524714+08:00","text":"鑒於勞工退休金條例（勞退新制）上路已20年，據勞動部統計，截至2025年1月至10月底已有近134.5萬名勞工參與自提退休金，提繳率僅17.2%，仍有超過八成勞工未加入自提行列。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員鍾佳濱書面質詢","start":"2026-05-26T11:53:33.824714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:54:25.539000+08:00","text":"自勞退新制實施以來，我國勞工參加勞工退休金個人自願提繳（勞退自提）比率始終不高，且參加者多集中於高薪族群，尤其是月薪接近15萬元的高薪族群，自提比率高達半數，係現行制度下，自提金額可從當年度個人綜合所得總額中扣除，具顯著節稅空間，該租稅效果對高所得及適用高稅率之族群非常有感；惟反觀月薪3萬至5萬元族群，提繳率卻相對低迷，因其本就免稅或稅負極低，節稅效果微乎其微，凸顯現行制度誘因設計難以打動基層勞工。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員鍾佳濱書面質詢","start":"2026-05-26T11:54:25.839000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:55:09.267571+08:00","text":"今年初統計數字，勞保老年年金去年共187.09萬人領取，平均每人僅領取約1.9萬元，勞退金部分，選擇勞退金月領的勞工每人平均僅可領取約6332元，等同勞工退休後每月僅有約2.5萬元，再依行政院主計總處統計，113年台灣平均每人每月消費支出要約2.65萬元，等同目前的退休金已無法維持物價高漲下基層勞工的退休基本生活所需，我國勞工未來退休金嚴重不足之問題日趨嚴重。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員鍾佳濱書面質詢","start":"2026-05-26T11:55:09.567571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:56:02.996143+08:00","text":"綜上所述，為達有效提高勞退自提之參與率，政府需採取更積極財政激勵措施，應參照立法院第11屆第4會期民進黨黨團所提「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一未分配款運用暫行條例」草案中，符合勞工退休金條例第七條之適用對象，若依照勞工退休金條例第十四條第三項及第四項規定自願提繳退休金，政府將發給自願提繳獎勵金；自願提繳獎勵金之金額計算，主管機關按月提繳前年度全國每人每月經常性薪資平均數百分之一之金額，並以五百元為上限。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員鍾佳濱書面質詢","start":"2026-05-26T11:56:03.296143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:56:33.296143+08:00","text":"爰此，建請行政院研議「符合勞工退休金條例第七條之勞工，若依照勞工退休金條例第十四條第三項及第四項規定自願提繳退休金，政府按月提繳前年度全國每人每月經常性薪資平均數百分之一之金額，並以五百元為上限之勞退自願提繳獎勵金」可行性。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-26T11:56:33.596143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:56:56.167571+08:00","text":"報告院會，社會福利及衛生環境組質詢已經詢答完畢，本會期自2月24號起對行政院院長施政方針及施政報告進行質詢，已經於今天詢答完畢，謝謝卓院長以及所有辛苦的相關部會首長列席答詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-26T11:56:56.467571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:57:01.324714+08:00","text":"在質詢結束之前，請各位委員都坐好，好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-26T11:57:01.624714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:57:07.053286+08:00","text":"各位委員坐定位，我們再請卓院長來說幾句話。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-26T11:57:07.353286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-26T11:57:09.353286+08:00","text":"現在有請卓院長。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}