{"error":false,"id":["169647"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169647,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169647","日期":"2026-05-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-27T09:56:44+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-27T10:07:48+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:04","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a08c85fe1a1e24a6cc5aa5ca4029bcfeafb12ebe7845b04eee1f29abad774ee06ffb1ffb47bf31ea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"09:56:44 - 10:07:48","會議時間":"2026-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬部分。【詢答及處理，所列預算提案於115年5月22日(星期五)中午12時截止收件。】\n【5月27日、28日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.46096875,"end":4.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.57784375,"end":11.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.337218750000002,"end":16.129718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.172218750000003,"end":14.695343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.657218750000002,"end":16.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.450343750000002,"end":43.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.70346875,"end":51.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.44471875,"end":52.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.81596875,"end":53.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.49909375,"end":69.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.805968750000005,"end":62.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.30284375000001,"end":72.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.01971875000001,"end":72.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.28971875,"end":86.39721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.73221875,"end":75.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.08659375,"end":76.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.88784375,"end":79.37721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.46471875,"end":93.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.45096875,"end":101.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.53409375000001,"end":106.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.08596875,"end":154.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.70721875,"end":200.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.60721875000002,"end":204.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.48409375,"end":212.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.55034375000002,"end":232.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.34909375,"end":234.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.01534375000003,"end":255.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.41909375,"end":243.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.10971875,"end":252.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.12659375,"end":252.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.58596875,"end":263.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.68596875000003,"end":282.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.47471875,"end":265.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.77346875,"end":271.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.67159375,"end":274.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.85596875000005,"end":302.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.94159375000004,"end":303.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.56159375000004,"end":303.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.96659375,"end":305.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.82721875000004,"end":310.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.20596875,"end":315.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.80909375000005,"end":318.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.30659375000005,"end":315.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.65221875000003,"end":319.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.31846875,"end":333.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.30534375,"end":323.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.54096875000005,"end":328.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.65471875000003,"end":329.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.95346875,"end":336.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.80534375,"end":337.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.85596875000005,"end":364.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.73721875,"end":341.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.44534375,"end":345.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.41346875000005,"end":360.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.67034375000003,"end":371.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.46659375,"end":427.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.08221875000004,"end":435.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.96284375000005,"end":450.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.76221875000005,"end":451.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.24721875,"end":458.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.16659375,"end":455.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.20034375,"end":455.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.53784375000004,"end":455.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.49096875000004,"end":458.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.31784375,"end":471.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.49846875000003,"end":464.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.51846875,"end":482.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.12846875,"end":484.73159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","sta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有請游主委"},{"start":10.795,"end":39.833,"text":"郭主委也好郭主委辛苦了這是您第一次到立法院來做這個專業報告那麼您在當時我們投票給您的時候您的簡歷上寫得很清楚你寫說維持高效能高效率的選務行政的系統要讓全體的選民滿意這是中選會責無旁貸的使命這句話呢我非常的認同也非常的支持但是呢主委您知道嗎長期以來我的族人"},{"start":40.833,"end":51.042,"text":"對於選務的行政系統一點都不滿意而且這是長期的問題請問一下主委您知道原住民的選舉有什麼樣的缺失嗎"},{"start":55.523,"end":75.558,"text":"我相信就原住民選民會感覺到有許多的行政措施上的不方便造成他們的投票意願比較低落等等等等相關的問題我很清楚因為我是花蓮人我在花蓮我也接觸了很多很多的原住民"},{"start":76.198,"end":96.387,"text":"我跟他們有非常密切的接觸聯繫並且也是好朋友所以高金委員所提示這些我是深有所感的好的非常謝謝那我再次的提醒你大概有幾個面向第一個就是投票秘密保障不足我們可以看到113年原住民的立法委員"},{"start":97.307,"end":112.617,"text":"的選舉將近有兩千多個投開票所那麼這兩千多個投開票所呢只有一名原住民選舉人也就是說這個人投給誰馬上開票就知道了"},{"start":113.217,"end":128.138,"text":"所謂的秘密投票形同虛設了那第二個投票成本很高就是剛剛您說的因為我們的族人呢他必須回到他的戶籍地裡面去投票所以成本很高所以很多人都不想回去那麼第三個"},{"start":129.039,"end":148.547,"text":"投票率長期偏低 偏低的原因大概就是剛剛講的前面兩個都有它的關聯我們可以看到數據113年不分區立委投票率一般是71.78%可是山地原住民只有64.32%而平地原住民更只有58.25%"},{"start":151.368,"end":171.45,"text":"那這不是族人他不願意去投票是我們的制度讓族人更難去投票第四個這個也是我長期以來一直希望我們的這個中選會能夠來改善的就是選務疏失缺乏救濟因為我們投開票所的人員他對原住民的選舉"},{"start":172.771,"end":197.926,"text":"他不太清楚所以呢每一次到現場的時候都會有掃發誤發漏發然後我們的主任當場會有非常多的問題然後最後是連申訴都無門然後非常生氣的就離開就不投票那麼這以上的幾個困境呢其實呢到現在都還沒有辦法解決請問主委您上任以來您是我們原住民的好朋友你覺得你該怎麼樣趕快來處理這個事情"},{"start":201.186,"end":211.193,"text":"是謝謝高經委員我上任之後我發現就委員剛剛所提的這些問題都存在"},{"start":213.598,"end":229.875,"text":"那我們也努力的我們選務單位也努力的去試圖去有效解決所以在今年這地方選舉我們已經採取了有效的措施比方說這個秘密投票保障不足我們選罷法這57條修法"},{"start":233.959,"end":251.753,"text":"這個已經我們已經開始研議跟各地選委會已經研議怎麼樣來實現這一個改革另外一個就是說您長期所關切的原住民在投票的時候可能這些顯物疏失"},{"start":252.413,"end":274.153,"text":"那我們也積極的研議這一次在六都方面我們已經就優化原住民選舉人領票作業這些方面選票誤發、少發、未發這些我們已經有完整的計畫"},{"start":275.314,"end":280.559,"text":"估計可以有16萬的商園跟平原學民能夠獲益"},{"start":283.218,"end":309.405,"text":"所以您剛剛講到優化原住民選舉人領票作業事辦計畫這個是本席一再催促的時候在目前你們正在辦的計畫您剛剛講到了將會有16萬的我們的族人因為這個事辦計畫就會解決不發、少發、未發的這樣子的狀況嗎六都的部分只有在六都這一次會這六都的部分這次11月的投票可以會解決這個問題嗎"},{"start":311.326,"end":314.034,"text":"我想應該可以相當深入解決這一次就請我們閒務處來做訪問"},{"start":320.679,"end":348.849,"text":"報告委員就是有關這個優化原住民選舉人投票的這個措施那其實這個是要感謝委員在去年預算審查所提出的那我們目前規劃的就是以提出有三個機制第一個就是原住民選舉人的名冊單獨造冊第二個是專人來引導原住民來協助領票第三個就是彈性調派一位工作人員來執行這個發票的任務那這樣子應該是可以有效的讓原住民的選舉人"},{"start":349.449,"end":364.134,"text":"能正確的到他的領票處所正確的領到他的選票那尤其更重要的是我們有要求地方的投票所工作人員絕對不可以再把原住民的選票放在抽屜裡面一定要再放在桌面上那我已遭公信謝謝委員好 非常謝謝"},{"start":365.054,"end":392.723,"text":"主委您的上任的第一個任務恐怕就要先來幫原住民解決這個問題我們希望他能夠趕快的上路讓我們的主任謝謝另外我要講的是不再舉投票了非常多的委員很關心不再舉投票而且您自己也說不再舉投票是必須要積極面對妥善處理的工作那我的主任就是最需要用國內不再舉投票才能夠解決我們剛剛所"},{"start":394.924,"end":407.588,"text":"所謂的反加投票的意願然後我們的投票率要升高的問題那我們看一下整個歷程其實從2011年監察院就已經要求推動不再急投票了2012年內政部有開公聽會2013年"},{"start":411.749,"end":435.043,"text":"我們再度的要求要建制2018年再辦可行性的公聽會2020年又開公投不在籍投票相關的公聽會我們看一下這個年度的流程你就可以看到十幾年過去了理由也講清楚了公聽會也開完了結果我們現在這個制度還躺在原地"},{"start":436.061,"end":458.381,"text":"那主委我相信剛剛我聽到您的回答了你說這是必須一個是政策上的決定嘛是行政院內政部但是呢您上任主委這應該跟您的理念也相同吧好跟我們回報一下我長期以來關心研究台灣的選舉制度"},{"start":459.366,"end":482.34,"text":"那剛剛委員所提出來那些都是事實在2012、2013年尤其是監察院開始關切這方面的問題的時候其實社會反應都蠻正面的可是慢慢的到今天為止社會的反應好像已經沒有像以前那麼強烈"},{"start":483.2,"end":511.658,"text":"主要的原因就在於我們自己的選舉制度也在改變以前選舉都是單一選舉包括總統選舉單次選舉立委單次選舉所以在任何單次選舉的情況底下實施不在籍投票看起來都是理所當然可是當很多選舉種類都合在一起比方說我們的九合一的選舉"},{"start":513.055,"end":538.297,"text":"那所造成的不在籍投票的所造成的複雜性就大到難以想像這個我們中情會也在多次跟大院報告也跟社會報告就是說如何在實施不在籍投票的同時不傷害到其他我們非常珍惜的價值"},{"start":539.077,"end":568.127,"text":"比方說選舉的公平性公正性不造成選舉的扭曲等等我們要如何能夠一併考量這些價值而不是只是追求不在籍投票的實施我個人也一再講過不在籍投票是一個進步的思維日本可以美國可以各國好像也在實施為什麼台灣不可以我們非常多的外籍的工作人員在台灣他也可以投他國內的投票"},{"start":568.407,"end":591.916,"text":"我很佩服高金委員長期在關心族人的不在籍投票的需求但是我也要講一句就是說如果像日本這樣子剛剛結束的這個國會選舉投票單一選舉他們實施的不在籍投票那麼好那我們要了解各種的原因實在是因為他是單一選舉"},{"start":593.933,"end":595.294,"text":"如果是按照主委您這樣說的話 恐怕這個歷程還會很長"},{"start":612.469,"end":626.906,"text":"那也不是短短十幾分鐘我們在這裡可以討論出來的但是呢你應該同意我說便利投票它不是對人民的恩惠而是民主應該要有的基本配備吧那當然是"},{"start":629.068,"end":654.228,"text":"如果同意這樣子的一個價值我覺得就必須要趕快往前走而不是從2011年一直到現在那縱使您剛剛說過有很多選舉制度必須要要充分的在討論我覺得您今天到這個位置上來想必就是有你的理念有你的理想不再去投票會不會是你的理念跟理想呢"},{"start":654.728,"end":662.034,"text":"是 這是一個大方向 我們必須走向那一個方向好 謝謝你 希望主委你再積極努力加油希望可以達成目標好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}