{"error":false,"id":["169660"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169660,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169660","日期":"2026-05-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-28T09:07:58+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-28T09:18:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:08","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/89665fc2cee9c3671ca27b54f363276f486a38586931bd1546fd7f102f2ee6abb066f83588e7a26e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:07:58 - 09:18:06","會議時間":"2026-05-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【預算提案於5月26日中午12時截止收件】\n【5月25日、27日及28日三天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.122843750000001,"end":7.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.227843750000002,"end":9.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.73784375,"end":14.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.53096875,"end":31.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.15096875,"end":15.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.01346875,"end":36.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.77659375,"end":35.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.43034375,"end":36.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.85221875,"end":36.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.10534375,"end":40.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.58596875,"end":45.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.35721875,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.80284375,"end":56.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.43534375,"end":89.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.34596875000001,"end":112.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.18659375,"end":112.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.51971875000001,"end":117.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.66659375,"end":117.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.85221875,"end":117.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.93659375000001,"end":117.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.97034375000001,"end":139.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.17284375000001,"end":118.61159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.11784375,"end":119.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.89784375,"end":123.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.02409375,"end":125.56409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.93034375000002,"end":131.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.21159375000002,"end":161.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.29596875000001,"end":140.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.91159375,"end":143.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.18971875,"end":145.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.10471875000002,"end":149.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.33909375000002,"end":164.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.38096875000002,"end":163.83659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.07284375,"end":180.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.93534375000002,"end":191.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.76471875000001,"end":192.01784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.01784375000003,"end":203.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.15284375000002,"end":192.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.67159375,"end":195.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.28721875000002,"end":197.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.32409375,"end":204.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.18471875,"end":204.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.91034375,"end":219.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.80784375000002,"end":213.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.74409375000002,"end":216.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.80284375000002,"end":218.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.06846875000002,"end":239.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.77221875,"end":225.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.91971875000002,"end":226.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.34096875,"end":230.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.78784375,"end":233.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.21346875,"end":237.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.44909375,"end":251.13096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.59096875,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.02471875000003,"end":256.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.56034375,"end":257.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.01971875000004,"end":261.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.20096875,"end":262.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.98534375,"end":265.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.97221875,"end":270.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.44659375000003,"end":284.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.57721875000004,"end":289.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.70346875,"end":333.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.10534375000003,"end":352.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.95909375,"end":367.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.50721875000005,"end":354.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.47971875,"end":401.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.28471875,"end":420.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.98221875,"end":420.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.69096875,"end":420.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.94409375000004,"end":420.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.97784375000003,"end":428.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.11284375,"end":421.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.28471875,"end":436.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.35096875000005,"end":437.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.99221875,"end":470.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.36721875,"end":440.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.40096875,"end":440.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.06096875000003,"end":457.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.52284375000005,"end":472.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.36659375000005,"end":474.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.33659375,"end":511.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.79221875,"end":475.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.88909375000003,"end":476.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.7778437500001,"end":515.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.7353437500001,"end":515.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.06846875,"end":526.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.60784375,"end":523.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.94034375,"end":526.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.8515937500001,"end":529.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.0747187500001,"end":531.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.17596875,"end":531.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.01534375,"end":549.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.0378437500001,"end":552.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.1640937500001,"end":574.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.61909375,"end":557.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.7578437500001,"end":560.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.3728437500001,"end":566.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.2165937500001,"end":568.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.9622187500001,"end":589.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.3059687500001,"end":604.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.06534375,"end":592.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.95346875,"end":606.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.93221875,"end":607.53096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.159,"end":3.5,"text":"謝謝主席 有請秘書長秘書長早有幾位很資深的立委常常說他們在立法院待了我印象中是叫32年那其實他們都不如您在立法院服務的這個完整經歷大概40幾年吧 將近半世紀"},{"start":31.415,"end":52.01,"text":"大概有在立法院大概有四十年大概四十年大概有三個月的樣子所以我認為您是真正看過整個立法院長久以來的全貌還有真的走過立法院的歷史長河所以我今天就請教秘書長有一些長期大家有在關注的問題謝謝"},{"start":57.094,"end":70.561,"text":"因為您對立法院的事務是非常熟悉的我想沒有人可以說如果您最熟但沒有人敢說他會超越你我們大家都覺得立法院的建物建物是老舊的動線有點混亂空間有點不足但是這個議題其實喊了超過大概30年蠻久的我覺得我相對年輕就看到這個議題到目前為止並沒有進度或進展"},{"start":83.188,"end":89.622,"text":"那秘書長您認為這些問題主要的困難 主要的重點在什麼地方呢"},{"start":91.791,"end":117.193,"text":"這個建築物裡面期間中間有兩次在八十二年在華山那時候要改建就是要等我們所說的簽建後來是因為當時的商家針對這一個有點疑慮那時候都有抗爭所以後來這一個案子後來就被裹絕掉地點的問題對八十二年的時候所以劉松萬院長在院會表決是"},{"start":118.735,"end":125.062,"text":"是沒有過的那這88年次我們是找空軍總部也是要擴建 也是要兼建那時候後來是也都通過但後來因為921吧所以左邊的預算"},{"start":133.231,"end":147.677,"text":"後來保留五年以後就沒有那這一次我在當考委的時候我們的大概游錫堃院長在十一屆啊這一個簽證他是非常投入啦是是是現在有大概有六個地點"},{"start":148.917,"end":155.743,"text":"六個地點後來是黨團沒有同意都沒有同意以後就沒有提報到院會我們這一屆來其實以我個人來講我整個完全你剛剛有提到幾個點"},{"start":166.312,"end":176.221,"text":"那剛剛有一個點剛好跟韓院長其實今年二月他有提出來韓院長屬意的好像兩個地方一個是圓山飯店一個是空總那剛剛你提到空總其實當年也不是反對就是好像那個九一事件因為空總以後是這樣我要這樣跟陳委員補充報告一下因為我們空總那時候在第四屆是通過的"},{"start":187.771,"end":195.256,"text":"所以保留五年那五年後保留款五年後就沒有了所以才十一屆我們現在十一屆吧第十屆的時候游錫堃院長他有提了規劃了到後來有六個點"},{"start":203.382,"end":206.103,"text":"有六個地點那中間有空心總部在那院長來的時候因為我們一來第一會期就有很多委員針對這個有提出來我們總務處也非常努力的在重新在規劃謝謝你因為我知道游院長的努力因為他還甚至設立了這個國會監牽的監督委員會然後他還去這個積極喔他還去請教幾個當時的這個"},{"start":230.616,"end":257.022,"text":"其實現在都還是 好幾位縣市首長包括柯文哲市長 盧縣任市長 何祐宜市長徵詢意見 幾個六都的都長所以請問現在韓院長有沒有也在做類似的這樣子做法就是在積極的規劃有沒有要成立這樣的監督委員會其實我們大概第一會期都有報告那大概這個六點 因為剛才陳委員已經提出來"},{"start":257.862,"end":269.613,"text":"他對圓山市有他的想法但是我要這樣補充一句因為怕時間我要補充一點就是說我們其實現在來了一位參事他是這個都市計畫的他非常專業所以他有在提的一個概念就地改建"},{"start":285.046,"end":288.527,"text":"所以現在的一個方案 其實我們又多了一個選項秘書長謝謝你 因為今年一月我們通過了立法院組織法的修法除了我們有參考 行政院提出的地方民代知己的條例明訂地方議會和立法院可以編列預算來補助民代的助理費以及增加國會助理的福利"},{"start":306.551,"end":331.701,"text":"但是行政院既然不附屬耶他的理由是說會讓刑法出現漏洞 詐領助理費會更難受到貪污罪的這個制裁以及會增加這個助理這個增加這個財政負擔啦那行政院自己提出的地方民代的知己條例可以可以把這個議會的助理費定義為是給議員的補助但是立法院修法要讓兩個制度一致化 卻不行那秘書長你認為這件事有道理嗎"},{"start":335.024,"end":351.91,"text":"我不好對這一個評價我只能是這樣說明啦因為從民國74年開始這個助理是用補助性質的所以從1500萬一直到現在來講所以我們的組織法規定是這個助理是雇主"},{"start":352.13,"end":367.456,"text":"秘書長我理解我剛剛就是引用行政院的做法是有點兩制就一國兩制那就是說我也了解秘書長您覺得不便評論但是對我們來說已經修法通過但是不附屬但是沒有辦法兩邊就一致化"},{"start":368.556,"end":391.855,"text":"好 這個是 那我就再請教你 那另外一個議題是助理費的待遇跟福利嘛那我們也跟立法院的秘書處確認過 這個沒有裁員的問題喔但是行政院還是不附屬啊 真是莫名其妙那請問秘書長面對這樣 我們有沒有辦法 不透過修法但是能夠增加助理的 就是提高助理的待遇跟福利"},{"start":392.675,"end":419.348,"text":"難怪行政院難道行政院反對隨身國會助理的待遇那我們就沒辦法了嗎我們有其他不修法的方式嗎我要比較細密再說明民國96年的時候這個預算的時候當時其實這一個我們是寫一定法規是規定一定的助理會所以我在第一會期也提過只有黨團協商同意這一個助理會的會用"},{"start":421.949,"end":436.196,"text":"謝謝秘書長秘書長因為我們這個不僅是協商而且是通過不是不是就是說立法院通過的我知道因為這個案它不公佈嘛所以你這個案等於是因為你不公佈的話等於就變成現前的立法案的主計劃嘛那秘書長"},{"start":437.276,"end":457.131,"text":"那我可以補充一下因為我覺得這個很重要因為被外界裡面一直對助理其實我自己有自己的想法啦因為助理會的增加因為他在對其實對院裡面或對委員都很重要當時在96年當時我那時候沒有考慮那麼多所以當時用5萬乘以8嘛所以5萬乘以8所以如果各黨團同意的話助理會他把"},{"start":463.135,"end":467.139,"text":"因為法沒有兵規一定多少錢嘛如果你改為六萬七萬的話你加的話助理會自然就會有增加的啦我是這個看法不必一定要修法謝謝祕書長祕書長我們在海遠對國會外交非常重視這一屆以來大概至少有兩百回了這個國會外交那但是"},{"start":483.112,"end":503.825,"text":"其中國會外交並不限於這個立委本身我們也看到外國國會的助理們也到我們立法院來參訪交流甚至由副院長來親自接待那我認為這是非常好的事情那對於我們台灣跟國家其他國家的情誼建議是很有幫助的但是我們除了等到人家來訪那有沒有可能我們也積極走出去請問秘書長未來有沒有機會讓國會的助理也有機會組團到其他國家去訪問這樣相關的預算可能來編列來規劃或編列嗎"},{"start":513.597,"end":529.478,"text":"其實國外外交不一定是說一定是委員啦助理或支援都可以啊因為這一筆費用如果要在國際式費用大概不能用到助理啊"},{"start":530.098,"end":549.416,"text":"不需要修法嗎裡面的這個費用它是因為編列的是委員 比如說組團它五百萬的組團是聯誼會的組團那你兩千萬那邊它是比如說舉個例來講五個人它是可以只派一個秘書去的"},{"start":550.257,"end":576.638,"text":"在祕書現在目前是大概行政連員我聽起來就是說立法院有最大的民意基礎然後事實上是我們在監督所有地方所有院會的一些預算但是我們希望做的一些事情好像都受到這個撤走受到限制然後修法過了三讀通過也沒用那個不修法的方式好像還要很努力或是受到很大的限制因為我們的制度的設計啊"},{"start":578.58,"end":604.177,"text":"我們編了概算還是要行政院同意的所以現在舉個例來講現在目前的一個空屋就是我們那個院區的空屋現在行政院還沒有同意我們編例了那今天我們也是呼籲兩院互相尊重啦不能形成老實責怪這個立法院然後又不附屬就全部的附議不執行等等那立法院的需求也希望行政院能夠好好的考慮我們會這樣爭取謝謝秘書長 謝謝主席"},{"start":607.782,"end":607.803,"text":"好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}