{"error":false,"id":["169670"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169670,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169670","日期":"2026-05-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-28T09:34:27+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-28T09:48:11+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/89665fc2cee9c367d3bb2f22fe2d55d27a79f49b44e074565064cfc36d565837a50e264968218f985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:34:27 - 09:48:11","會議時間":"2026-05-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、國民黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。\n二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。\n三、委員林月琴等19人擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。\n【僅詢答】【第三案如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.072218750000001,"end":6.764093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.50659375,"end":9.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.25721875,"end":10.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.273468750000003,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.26909375,"end":74.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.82096875,"end":79.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.81596875000001,"end":85.94159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.17784375000001,"end":87.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.66284375000001,"end":103.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.37346875,"end":129.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.36096875,"end":130.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.30159375,"end":133.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.74846875,"end":151.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.72034375,"end":153.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.82534375,"end":206.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.54471875000002,"end":169.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.50346875000002,"end":191.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":206.10846875000001,"end":208.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.81721875000002,"end":212.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.24221875,"end":224.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.25409375,"end":219.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.13971875000001,"end":222.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.82284375,"end":225.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.29096875000002,"end":227.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.43846875000003,"end":239.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.02284375000002,"end":241.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.01409375000003,"end":251.90721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.68346875,"end":255.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.38346875000002,"end":297.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.99284375,"end":347.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.87096875000003,"end":351.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.89159375,"end":352.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.66346875000005,"end":353.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.68034375,"end":354.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.40596875,"end":370.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":361.61159375,"end":362.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.62721875,"end":379.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.19159375000004,"end":376.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.03096875,"end":380.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":379.49909375000004,"end":398.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.21159375,"end":383.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.76596875,"end":423.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.35284375000003,"end":427.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":427.84596875000005,"end":441.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.36284375,"end":450.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.87159375000005,"end":463.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.80659375000005,"end":471.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.00784375,"end":491.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":491.83596875,"end":506.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":506.60159375,"end":527.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":527.07096875,"end":538.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.03534375,"end":566.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.2209687500001,"end":566.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.72721875,"end":575.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":575.5359687499999,"end":585.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.34534375,"end":580.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":585.3572187500001,"end":589.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.1328437500001,"end":591.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.90471875,"end":593.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":594.0815937500001,"end":597.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":597.37221875,"end":601.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.86096875,"end":602.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.4853437500001,"end":603.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.43034375,"end":607.1765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.69159375,"end":605.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.7590937500001,"end":605.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.9109687499999,"end":605.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.9697187500001,"end":608.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.22284375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目前我們實務上也都確實有在進行這樣的程序可是失任的狀態跟一般那種失能的不太一樣 它是漸進式的所以如果現今依然是全面固定式的監護制度的話司法院是否已啟動成年監護的制度的一個檢討因為目前這個失任的狀態就是跟一般的不太一樣那是否朝向一個個案需求來做部分限制而不是全面剝奪能力方向來演繹"},{"start":452.898,"end":471.548,"text":"跟委員報告因為目前監護宣告跟輔助宣告的這個實體法的制度是訂定在民法總則裡面這個民法總則的規定並不是本院主管的那所以這個目前關於這個如果當事人如果受了監護宣告他的法律上的行為能力會完全喪失這件事情也是訂在民法裡面的"},{"start":472.088,"end":490.498,"text":"那這個部分我們司法院這邊我們能處理的就是我們會依照法律的規定來進行審理那當然我們做了監務宣告或輔助宣告裁定之後的那個效果也會依照法律的規定來發生但是至於說監務宣告或輔助宣告制度要不要去做修改這個可能不是本院所執掌的範圍"},{"start":491.912,"end":507.737,"text":"因為我為什麼會問這個因為以馬前總統近期引發的社會討論來看一個人即使還能夠表達意願做出判斷安排自己生活如果進入全面固定式的監護制度的話會不會原本還存在的一些權利也一起被制度拿走"},{"start":508.417,"end":528.686,"text":"像德國日本韓國等國的那個制度的改革方向已逐步逐步的由全面限制能力轉向支持決策模式所以我認為有必要要進行全面的檢討來修正比較符合我們生權公約的制度那司法院請回那部長繼續留著接下來我們就想針對"},{"start":530.508,"end":546.082,"text":"據點的分流政策來討論因為分流政策原本的目的是希望中度以上的失智或中度以下的失能的失智者能從失智據點到我們立案的長照機構來提升照顧的一個層級讓照顧的品質能真正升級"},{"start":547.043,"end":565.109,"text":"可是這個政策方向我相信大家都支持可是回顧我們看114年年底官方的數據實際執行情況跟政策原先預定的目標有似乎很大的落差因為資料顯示共有4246名的失智者因制度調整離開原本的熟悉的失智據點"},{"start":566.81,"end":584.112,"text":"我想部長也知道事實上應該讓他是在他最熟悉的環境就現在離開 可真正依照政策能夠成功銜接到日照中心的只有730人佔了17.2%即使把居家服務 住宿機構等一併納入計算"},{"start":585.829,"end":603.474,"text":"進入到長照體系的也只有33.5%換句話說大約三分之二的失智者在離開原本服務後並沒有持續進入到我們的後續的長照服務體系所以部長這樣的結果真的是符合你當初政策原先規劃的目標嗎這個為什麼會離開我是不是請長照司司長來說明"},{"start":607.964,"end":630.538,"text":"好 委員這邊跟委員 其實剛剛委員一剛開始有提到 主要我們失職證是不可逆所以當他的情況越來越重 失職越重的時候 會伴隨失能那我們這邊的政策 主要考量是 因為我們的據點其實我們設定目標是預防他這個認知出境 我剛剛講三分之二的私人就離開原本服務之後就"},{"start":631.218,"end":660.478,"text":"不是不是不是不是委員說的這樣那事實上事實上這個我們目前這個屬於0.5CD20.5到1分的這個部分佔六成大概40萬裡面的六成那目前進到我們的500多處的失智據點的人數大概只有不到1萬人所以我們才覺得如果已經是失能四級的要讓他分流到我們的日照中心那邊其實有專業的人也有無障礙的環境空間其實對失智症的照顧會更好"},{"start":661.438,"end":676.478,"text":"市長如果不是我講的那樣的話那我覺得很特別就你們數據呈現的就是這樣狀態委員有一些誤會我們會後再跟委員說明部長如果這三分之二未成功轉型的個案衛福部"},{"start":677.018,"end":701.015,"text":"能不能分析原因 如果事長剛剛講 那就請給我報告如果障礙者究竟是什麼 到底是部分中度失智者未達失能的標準因此進不了長照體系嗎 否則為什麼後來他們沒有順利那還是這部分的地區的日照中心的量能不足還是現行的日照服務模式本身沒有真正符合失智者的需求"},{"start":701.835,"end":722.657,"text":"所以我希望衛福部能夠對這結果分析然後重新檢視現在的整個的收案跟結案的條件是否增加彈性來提出具體的改善措施的時程所以希望部長這個多久可以給我一個報告我想跟委員說明一下因為這裡有兩個問題我們要釐清一個是失智的程度"},{"start":723.437,"end":736.252,"text":"一個是失能的程度這是兩個不同的分析失智的程度當然我們以CDR來看的話0.5跟1這個是屬於極輕度或輕度的這邊大概是佔65%"},{"start":738.114,"end":753.691,"text":"另外的35%是二以上就中度跟重度的這邊可是呢跟失能這邊又是另外一種狀況我們的分級的方式又把它分成八個等級所以這兩個如何去match所以有失智不見的等於有失能"},{"start":754.412,"end":782.55,"text":"那當然剛剛市長講的是說私能市級以上的我們盡量把它導引到我們的這個社區這個日照啦或者是進入到我們的廠照體系當然還有一些屬於輕度的我們剛剛也提到希望用私製的供照去減緩它的這個疾病進程的推進我們來看一下把這兩個做一些這個matching之後那看看"},{"start":783.25,"end":795.288,"text":"到底我們應該要怎麼樣去分流因為我們看你們的數據就是這樣4246名因為你們當初要做這種分流政策然後請他們離開熟悉的獅子巨田然後最後"},{"start":796.513,"end":822.099,"text":"看起來只有因為三分之二的失智者離開原本的服務就沒有進入到你們認知的說腸道體系我有想知道發生什麼事那就麻煩部長我們來回頭去看剛剛說的這個三分之二他是屬於失能到什麼樣的等級來適當的再麻煩多久那個報告可以給我那個多久我們盤一下一個月可以啦我們一個月我們盤一下好謝謝部長謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}