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那你既然要跟我講這個來那我再問你另外一件事情"},{"start":271.109,"end":291.05,"text":"我們已經寫了預算提案我相信秘書長已經看到了我們來看一下什麼從富坤起這件事情來看什麼叫做你們認知的一般行政事務我們辦公室有個預算提案請秘書長聽一下我說在第十一屆目前為止已經連續兩年了四個會期五指禁三百六十五天是沒有休會的"},{"start":292.051,"end":316.17,"text":"在野黨委員呢以這個打開司法保護傘的邏輯讓研會一再一再的繼續研會會因此產生的費用我相信秘書長你比我還清楚所有議事人員的加班費這個是大家檯面上看得到的有沒有檯面上大家看不到所產生衍生的費用秘書長你之前呢在去年還是前年你還有對媒體公開說大家不要再排這麼多考察了我們的考察錢快不夠了你記得你講過這個話你說相關費用是不夠的"},{"start":320.493,"end":343.312,"text":"這是因為研會所造成的惡果嘛所以相關議事人員這些所有的公務人員陪著我們立法委員因為有人要開司法保護傘不斷的加班我要問你加班費怎麼編然後你相關產生了多少額外的費用是過去立法院史無前例的研會然後你們的秘書處告訴我們說委員愛難同意提供資料"},{"start":344.173,"end":368.122,"text":"我問你2024年到現在2025、2026這兩年過去加班費資料沒有辦法統計嗎為什麼不能提供給我們辦公室為什麼不願意面對如果按照秘書長你剛剛的邏輯那個國際事務你認為是屬於委員個人隱私你不想提供你用各處事的說法回我那我問你加班費衍生出來這件事情因為研會所衍生的加班費難道不是一般行政事務為什麼不能提供然後你跟我說你現在還要統計你2024到2025你現在都沒有統計如果你沒有統計你怎麼編出這本預算書"},{"start":375.327,"end":388.442,"text":"來 請秘書長說明光是研會所造成加班費這些費用我就問你加班費就好所有這些議事人員跟著我們一起加班而且本來表定是到5月31號我很好奇從6月1號到8月31號這兩個月你怎麼算給他們錢他不在本來的法定編制裡頭喔"},{"start":395.868,"end":403.411,"text":"我要這樣說這個職員工裡面的加班費他是每一個月份都會報加班費的很好嘛有報嘛那為什麼不能提供給我們我就問為什麼不能提供不敢提供為什麼不敢提供2024年我們2月1號上任到現在已經連續兩年加班費資料都是研會對嗎秘書長你還記得嗎一年365天然後韓國瑜院長還在新春團拜的時候假惺惺抓好人說"},{"start":424.918,"end":439.005,"text":"感謝所有議事人員因爲365天都沒有休假是誰造成的?是你們善意黨委員造成的不是嗎?結果我就問嘛我先不管這些國民黨的委員為什麼要提出這個司法保護省的研會方案我就問為什麼交通費的資料到現在不敢給我們為什麼不敢?是不敢還是不能?因為它這邊裡面的經費的精靈啦因為你也當過經費機構委員會啦所以他們大概會把這個提報到經費機構委員會去處理啦"},{"start":452.632,"end":480.578,"text":"昨天已經第3年了 第5個會議了 秘書長你要跟我說什麼啦 你想說什麼我就讓你2024、2025的加班費資料 到現在我們經費計劃委員沒有通過嗎秘書長 你在講什麼我現在只要你2024跟2025 因為研會所造成的加班費資料為什麼不能提供 你到現在還是不敢回答你們有沒有要救一下秘書長我就問加班費這麼簡單 你都不敢回答"},{"start":482.515,"end":508.117,"text":"你看 沒有人敢贏 沒有人敢合運我就問為什麼愛南提供嘛這些都是你們的權益耶 各位你還敢說我是經費集合委員會的委員那我們就知道經費集合委員會的人都按時開會不管是委員修繕會館的權利或者是所有助理們的權益你到現在不能提供"},{"start":509.605,"end":532.79,"text":"然後你還跟我說你編的出這本預算書如果是數據上裡面如果是這樣我來跟這兩個單位因為一個總務是一個聯事處啦我來了解一下看他們裡面的能不能做這個數據裡面我再說什麼叫能不能來不能的原因是因為什麼你要不要公開的說你要不要向國人交代我們因為立法院無理無止盡荒謬的研會所造成這些延伸的費用誰要負責秘書長你要不要公開說"},{"start":536.332,"end":558.089,"text":"這個延長會議那個是院會決議那我們沒辦法出會議當然 我就知道嘛 是民眾黨提案也好 國民黨提案也好就他們造成這個荒謬一年365天已經連續兩年了我就問為什麼費用給不出來不敢跟國人交代 為什麼不敢沒關係 我這樣好不好多久可以提供 來 我給你時間我尊重董事山起來了多久沒有沒有 你跟我說"},{"start":563.212,"end":585.513,"text":"兩個月還是一個月 什麼兩個月 那就是已經過去兩年的資料 你有什麼要再等一個月或兩個月這不是你現在打開電腦應該就有的嗎那必須要給同事啊 不然你怎麼編這本預算還有啊 你在編這本預算的時候 你當時還不知道要延會對吧所以相關的人事費用加班費 應該都不在你的編列預算當中喔那你說產生 好 那我就不要管你來年的那我就問你2024的資料 這樣可以吧2024的資料總可以給我們了吧"},{"start":590.138,"end":596.465,"text":"2025的預算還沒審完 拖到現在來2024 一個禮拜內給你好不好 一個禮拜可以嗎好 那2025已經報的也可以給了吧因為你是一個數據嘛你報告一下"},{"start":606.055,"end":622.157,"text":"我跟您報告一下 你提的那個部分 研會的部分可能還會牽涉到水電費水電費的部分其實它是可以很明確的出來你看嘛 我就說嘛 還牽涉到水電費我告訴你 因為研會所產生的費用我很客氣 只有講到所有人的加班費我想這個部分可能會牽涉到"},{"start":623.499,"end":631.044,"text":"我公開要求主席我把最後一句話講完謝謝主席我公開要求請立法院把所有因為研會所來你聽我說因為研會所產生的人事的加班費也好水電費或是其他的該有的費用請列出來像國人其實還有一般的那個水電供應跟那個會議你能寫什麼你就寫給我們我們讓國人來看看因為在野黨的"},{"start":647.634,"end":649.316,"text":"荒謬嚴惠的提案所造成的費用的浪費攤開在陽光下 給國人看我想我們立法院議員叔叔還有議事叔叔這邊絕對不會有什麼浪費公帑在這件事情"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:03:36.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:03:38.194000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:03:38.194000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:03:39.194000+08:00","text":"請秘書長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:03:39.194000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:03:40.194000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:03:40.194000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:03:41.194000+08:00","text":"秘書長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:03:38.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:06.349000+08:00","text":"秘書長，現在是5月，我不知道你還記不記得在今年3月的時候，我們辦公室提出幾項索資、要跟秘書處要相關資料，第一個是傅崐萁委員到中國，去做什麼我不知道，但是有沒有用立法院的考察費用，然後你們告訴我們說這個叫做隱秘資料，你們不宜揭露。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:07.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:10.654000+08:00","text":"我還是搞不懂，我到現在了還是搞不懂，為什麼這個叫隱秘性資料，可以請秘書長公開說明嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:20.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:36.817000+08:00","text":"為了針對當時陳委員提的，不僅只是國際事務處，有好幾個單位，所以，我特別請副秘書長召集各單位一起開會來做一個決定的……","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:37.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:40.680000+08:00","text":"我並沒有要傅崐萁委員的行程，我只是要問……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:40.680000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:41.680000+08:00","text":"我理解、我理解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:40.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:45.505000+08:00","text":"他有沒有拿這個行程來向立法院報帳考察費用？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:46.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:48.466000+08:00","text":"，我只是要問這個，你們都不能說？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:48.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:51.708000+08:00","text":"要這樣說明，因為大概這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:51.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:04:54.030000+08:00","text":"國會外交的費用編在你們的預算書裡面……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:04:54.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:06.198000+08:00","text":"沒有，我要這樣報告，其實國際事務的費用裡面有好幾種，有一種是委員自己本身，他每年有兩次，有20萬……是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:06.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:20.386000+08:00","text":"這個他只有給我們他出境的證照，他的行程我們是不能去管理的，所以這部分他不可能有資料給我們的……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:20.386000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:21.426500+08:00","text":"我們不是都跟你……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:21.426500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:22.467000+08:00","text":"那至於……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:22.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:25.249000+08:00","text":"這兩次我們不是都拿了機票跟你們報嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:25.249000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:26.249000+08:00","text":"對、對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:25.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:28.210000+08:00","text":"所以機票上都會有嘛，所以去到哪裡都很清楚嘛，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:28.210000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:29.871000+08:00","text":"那只有一個國家。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:29.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:30.292000+08:00","text":"他是一個國家？對。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:30.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:33.974000+08:00","text":"所以是你講的喔，這是國際事務，這是國與國的外交……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:33.974000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:34.974000+08:00","text":"不是、不是、不是，不是國與國的外交……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:34.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:39.898000+08:00","text":"所以傅崐萁委員本人到中國去，是國與國的外交囉，秘書長，你是這個意思嗎？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:39.898000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:41.560000+08:00","text":"我不是這樣的意思，是因為這一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:41.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:44.202000+08:00","text":"所以到中國去不是國與國的事務？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:44.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:46.063000+08:00","text":"這個兩岸事務……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:46.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:46.863000+08:00","text":"是國內事務嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:46.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:48.625000+08:00","text":"那如果是國內事務，他為什麼可以拿國際事務費來報帳？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:50.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:51.607000+08:00","text":"所以你不肯說嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:51.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:05:59.513000+08:00","text":"就是因為你不肯說明清楚，你給我們的資料稱作這是個人資料隱私不得公開，結果現在你在質詢臺上說不清楚。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:05:59.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:01.194000+08:00","text":"那你只要告訴我，他是國與國還是國內事務，他到底報帳報在哪裡嘛？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:01.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:01.714000+08:00","text":"陳委員，你要讓我說明一下。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:01.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:26.393000+08:00","text":"我現在跟你報告的就是說，在我們國際事務費用裡面，委員個人的話，他每年兩次，一次10萬塊共20萬，這部分沒有檢據報銷的，所以他到哪裡就只有……你剛才所講的只有這一個，所以我們不會去過問他這個……","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:26.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:28.575000+08:00","text":"這個叫做機票啦，秘書長，我幫你講，這個叫做機票。","quality":0.55},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:28.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:29.435000+08:00","text":"對，我們不會過問他。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:30.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:31.637000+08:00","text":"另外，他有一個出訪的、其他的一些……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:32.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:33.539000+08:00","text":"那機票上總有說他去哪裡吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:34.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:51.603000+08:00","text":"那這個我們也不能提供，比如舉個例來講，委員個人本身我們沒有徵求他的同意，我們不方便去……比方舉個例來講，任何一個委員他來要求，我們就跟他提供，這個會造成很大的一個……委員來跟我們質疑啦，所以就是說……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:52.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:56.586000+08:00","text":"我當時的問法，來，秘書長，我們回憶一下我當時的問法……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:56.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:57.586000+08:00","text":"所以才沒有辦法提供給你。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:56.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:06:59.467000+08:00","text":"因為是我的辦公室出的索資，我非常清楚……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:59.467000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:00.467000+08:00","text":"我了解、我了解。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:06:59.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:07.292000+08:00","text":"我索資的內容是問在野黨的委員一大群人赴中考察是否使用公費，就這麼簡單而已嘛，我當時就這麼問的啊。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:07:12.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:38.814000+08:00","text":"對，我知道，所以當時為了針對這個，我才特別跟……還不僅你這一個……因為陳委員所提的資料不僅僅只有國際事務啦，也有總務處的，所以後來我才會要求他們3月11號去召開，有相關類似的情況就做一個統一的原則，如果是一般行政事項，那各單位就可以依……去辦理，國會自律事項由各單位函復提報院會處理，如果經領各費收支事項，由各單位函復建請提報經費稽核委員，所以我……是因為按照這個處理……","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:07:39.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:41.095000+08:00","text":"結果就是都沒有處理，都沒有回復啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:07:41.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:41.636000+08:00","text":"說是隱私嘛……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:07:41.636000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:42.636000+08:00","text":"對，那個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:07:42.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:43.557000+08:00","text":"所以你說相關資訊是隱私的法制到底根據在哪裡嘛？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:07:43.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:07:45.919000+08:00","text":"好，那你既然要跟我講這個，來，那我再問你另外一件事情。是。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:01.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:08:03.712000+08:00","text":"我們已經寫了預算提案，我相信秘書長已經看到了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:03.712000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:08:05.334000+08:00","text":"有看了，對。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:05.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:08:09.858000+08:00","text":"從傅崐萁這件事情，我們來看什麼叫做你們認知的一般行政事務。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:09.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:08:28.956000+08:00","text":"我們辦公室有個預算提案，請秘書長聽一下，我說第11屆到目前為止，已經連續兩年了，四個會期無止境365天是沒有休會的，在野黨委員以打開司法保護傘的邏輯讓延會一再一再地繼續。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:29.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:08:39.324000+08:00","text":"延會而因此產生的費用，我相信秘書長你比我還清楚，所有議事人員的加班費，這是大家檯面上看得到的，有沒有檯面上大家看不到所衍生的費用？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:39.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:08:46.010000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你之前在去年還是前年，你還有對媒體公開說，大家不要再排這麼多考察了，我們的考察錢快不夠了，你記得你講過這個話嗎？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:46.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:08:52.135000+08:00","text":"你說相關費用是不夠的，這是因為延會所造成的惡果嘛！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:08:52.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:01.923000+08:00","text":"所以相關的議事人員，這些所有的公務人員陪著我們立法委員，因為有人要開司法保護傘，不斷地加班，我要問你加班費怎麼編？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:04.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:13.292000+08:00","text":"過去立法院史無前例的延會產生了多少相關額外的費用，然後你們的秘書處告訴我們說，委員，礙難同意提供資料。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:14.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:20.235000+08:00","text":"我問你，2024年到現在，2025、2026這兩年過去的加班費資料沒有辦法統計嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:20.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:21.536000+08:00","text":"為什麼不能提供給我們辦公室？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:22.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:23.296000+08:00","text":"為什麼不願意面對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:23.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:36.501000+08:00","text":"如果按照秘書長你剛剛的邏輯，國際事務那部分你認為是屬於委員個人隱私，你不想提供，你用各處室的說法回我，那我問你，衍生加班費出來這件事情，因為延會所衍生的加班費，難道不是一般行政事務，你為什麼不能提供？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:37.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:37.782000+08:00","text":"然後你跟我說你現在還要統計，2024年到2025年的資料你現在都沒有統計？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:37.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:38.122000+08:00","text":"如果你沒有統計，你怎麼編出這本預算書？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:45.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:57.681000+08:00","text":"來，請秘書長說明，光是延會所造成的加班費等費用，我就問你加班費就好，所有這些議事人員跟著我們一起加班，而且本來表定是到5月31號，我很好奇，從6月1號到8月31號，這2個月你怎麼算給他們錢？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:09:57.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:09:58.422000+08:00","text":"它不在本來的法定編製裡頭喔！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:05.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:06.988000+08:00","text":"我要這樣說明，職員工的加班費是每一個人、每一個月份他都會報加班費。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:07.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:07.849000+08:00","text":"很好，有報嘛，那為什麼不能提供給我們？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:07.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:09.309000+08:00","text":"我就問，為什麼不能提供？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:09.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:09.469000+08:00","text":"不敢提供？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:09.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:09.709000+08:00","text":"為什麼不敢提供？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:09.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:11.030000+08:00","text":"2024年我們2月1號上任到現在，連續兩年加班費的資料，都是延會，對嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:11.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:11.570000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你還記得嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:11.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:38.920000+08:00","text":"1年365天，韓國瑜院長還在新春團拜的時候假惺惺、裝好人說，感謝所有議事人員1年365天都沒有休假，是誰造成的？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:39.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:41.321000+08:00","text":"是你們在野黨委員造成的，不是嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:41.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:47.244000+08:00","text":"結果我就問，先不管這些國民黨的委員為什麼要提出這個司法保護傘的延會方案，我就問，為什麼加班費的資料到現在不敢給我們？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:47.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:47.324000+08:00","text":"為什麼不敢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:47.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:47.645000+08:00","text":"是不敢還是不能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:10:47.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:10:48.945000+08:00","text":"因為這裡面經費的經領，你也當過經費稽核委員會的委員，所以他們大概會把這個提報到經費稽核委員會去處理。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:02.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:07.913000+08:00","text":"今天已經第3年、第5個會期了，秘書長，你在跟我說什麼，你是在說什麼？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:07.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:14.314000+08:00","text":"我就問你2024、2025年的加班費資料，到現在我們經費稽核委員沒有通過嗎？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:14.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:16.915000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你在講什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:16.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:23.476000+08:00","text":"我現在只要你2024年跟2025年因為延會所造成的加班費資料，為什麼不能提供？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:23.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:28.697000+08:00","text":"你到現在還是不敢回答，你們有沒有人要救一下秘書長？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:28.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:29.697000+08:00","text":"你們的加班費是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:28.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:30.558000+08:00","text":"我就問加班費，這麼簡單你都不敢回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:30.558000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:32.675000+08:00","text":"你們加班費是哪一個單位提的……","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:32.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:38.660000+08:00","text":"你看，沒人敢回應，沒人敢給我們，我就問為什麼礙難提供？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:39.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:41.082000+08:00","text":"這些都是你們的權益欸，各位！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:41.082000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:11:46.547000+08:00","text":"員工的加班費，一般來講，你們有提供……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:11:46.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:01.405000+08:00","text":"你還敢說我是經費稽核委員會的委員，那我們就知道經費稽核委員會的委員都有按時開會，不管爭取的是委員修繕會館的權利，或者是所有助理們的權益，你到現在不能提供，然後你還跟我說你編得出這本預算書……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:01.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:12.648000+08:00","text":"如果是數據上，如果是這樣，我來跟這兩個單位了解一下，一個是總務處，一個是人事處，我來了解一下，看他們裡面能不能做這個數據，我再……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:12.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:13.528000+08:00","text":"什麼叫能不能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:13.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:15.069000+08:00","text":"不能的原因是為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:15.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:16.109000+08:00","text":"你要不要公開地說？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:16.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:22.370000+08:00","text":"你要不要向國人交代，我們因為立法院無理、無止境、荒謬的延會所造成這些延伸的費用，誰要負責？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:22.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:22.790000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你要不要公開說？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:26.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:30.155000+08:00","text":"延長會議是院會決議，我沒辦法置喙。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:30.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:40.223000+08:00","text":"當然，我就知道嘛，是民眾黨提案也好，國民黨提案也好，就是他們造成這個荒謬，1年365天，已經連續兩年了，我就問，為什麼費用給不出來？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:40.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:41.804000+08:00","text":"不敢跟國人交代，為什麼不敢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:42.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:44.326000+08:00","text":"沒關係，這樣好不好……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:44.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:45.607000+08:00","text":"多久可以提供？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:46.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:47.169000+08:00","text":"我給你時間，我尊重主席站起來了，多久？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:47.169000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:48.169000+08:00","text":"我在兩個月內來開個會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:47.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:48.089000+08:00","text":"不、不、不，你跟我說多久？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:53.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:53.853000+08:00","text":"兩個月還是一個月……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:54.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:54.473000+08:00","text":"什麼兩個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:54.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:12:57.857000+08:00","text":"那就是已經過去兩年的資料，你為什麼還要等一個月或兩個月？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:12:58.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:00.139000+08:00","text":"這不是你現在打開電腦應該就有了嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:01.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:01.640000+08:00","text":"這必須要做統計。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:02.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:02.741000+08:00","text":"不然你怎麼編這本預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:03.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:06.064000+08:00","text":"還有，你在編這本預算的時候，你當時還不知道要延會，對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:06.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:09.708000+08:00","text":"所以相關的人事費用、加班費應該都不在你編列的預算當中喔！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:11.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:14.452000+08:00","text":"好，我就不要管你哪一年的，那我就問你2024年的資料，這樣可以吧？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:14.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:15.493000+08:00","text":"2024年的資料總可以給我們了吧？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:15.493000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:20.138000+08:00","text":"那我一個禮拜內給你好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:20.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:21.660000+08:00","text":"2025年的預算還沒審完，拖到現在，來，2024年。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:21.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:22.660000+08:00","text":"我一個禮拜內給你好不好？多久？","quality":0},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:21.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:23.021000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜內給你好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:23.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:24.062000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:24.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:24.863000+08:00","text":"好，那2025年已經報的也可以給了吧？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:25.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:25.524000+08:00","text":"因為是一個數據……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副秘書長裕榮","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:36.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:43.345000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，你提的延會的部分可能還會牽涉到水電費，水電費的部分其實是可以很明確的……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:43.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:51.296000+08:00","text":"你看嘛，我就說還牽涉到水電費，我告訴你，因為延會所產生的費用，我很客氣，只有講到所有人的加班費。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"張副秘書長裕榮","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:51.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:52.137000+08:00","text":"加班費的部分可能還會牽涉到……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:52.137000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:53.499000+08:00","text":"好，麻煩……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:53.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:55.220000+08:00","text":"那我公開要求，主席，我把最後一句話講完，謝謝主席。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"張副秘書長裕榮","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:55.220000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:56.220000+08:00","text":"還會牽涉到人員的加班或者是補休，補休的話就沒有辦法去算出來加班的時數、所產生的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:55.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:58.402000+08:00","text":"我公開要求請立法院把所有因為延會所……來，你聽我說，因為延會所產生的人事的加班費也好，水電費或是其他該有的費用，請列出來，向國人……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張副秘書長裕榮","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:58.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:13:59.883000+08:00","text":"水電費的部分其實還有一般的水電供應跟那個會議……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:13:59.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:00.583000+08:00","text":"沒關係，你能寫什麼你就寫給我們，我們讓國人來看看……","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:00.583000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:01.583000+08:00","text":"那就麻煩……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:00.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:18.355000+08:00","text":"因為在野黨委員荒謬延會的提案所造成費用的浪費，攤開在陽光下給國人看！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:18.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:19.296000+08:00","text":"就麻煩秘書處這邊提供，我想我們立法院秘書處還有議事處絕對不會有什麼浪費公帑的事情，一般的數據、相關的資料就麻煩秘書處這邊提供，兩個禮拜之內可以提供嗎？","quality":0.343},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:19.796000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:20.938857+08:00","text":"限加班費……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:21.238857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:24.381714+08:00","text":"好，沒有關係，不管是加班費……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:24.681714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:38.110286+08:00","text":"主席，沒有關係，主席，我說明一下，因為這個是我辦公室的預算提案，他們跟我們溝通預算的時候……到現在還不肯提供。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:38.410286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:43.267429+08:00","text":"好，我們待會可以在處理預算案的時候再……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:43.567429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:48.710286+08:00","text":"所以請秘書長你公開說，到底多久可以提供？","quality":0},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:49.010286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:51.296000+08:00","text":"如果是限定加班費……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:51.596000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:14:54.738857+08:00","text":"我已經尊重主席走下來了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:14:55.038857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:15:01.896000+08:00","text":"我剛才已經報告過，如果是加班費，我一個禮拜內提供給你。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:15:02.196000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:15:05.053143+08:00","text":"那為什麼之前不能提供？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:15:05.353143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:15:11.067429+08:00","text":"一個禮拜內將這兩年因為延會所造成的加班費……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:15:11.367429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:15:18.224571+08:00","text":"對，加班費，不是延會加班費，我沒有辦法跟委員說延會加班……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:15:18.524571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:15:26.810286+08:00","text":"沒關係，你現在只肯給加班費，我們就先要加班費，之後再一項一項來追。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-05-28T10:15:27.110286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:15:53.681714+08:00","text":"陳委員，我要這樣說明，因為你現在是要延會加班，不是這個概念，是說因為你的加班，每年這個年度，你要三年度加班費的統計數字，我一個禮拜內提供給你，是限定於加班費，而剛才副秘書長所提，那個是額外的，其他的那就沒辦法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:15:53.981714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:15:59.124571+08:00","text":"來，秘書長，你聽好，我的預算提案是這樣寫的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:15:59.424571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:06.281714+08:00","text":"我想我們就討論到這邊，因為不要再浪費其他委員的時間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:06.581714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:12.010286+08:00","text":"主席，我寫的叫做考察，我講的……我沒有浪費時間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:12.310286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:18.881714+08:00","text":"陳委員，請尊重主席，我想剛剛我已經做宣示了，就是麻煩……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:19.181714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:20.896000+08:00","text":"我又被消音了！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:21.196000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:40.338857+08:00","text":"麻煩周秘書長在一個禮拜之內，提供加班費的資料給陳委員，至於水電費的部分，你們再看看情況是不是有辦法可以整理出來，要不然就主要是以提供加班費為主。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:40.638857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:42.353143+08:00","text":"接下來我們請……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:42.653143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:43.796000+08:00","text":"主席，我的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:44.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:47.524571+08:00","text":"我們接下來請范雲委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:47.824571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:48.967429+08:00","text":"預算提案……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:49.267429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:51.838857+08:00","text":"謝謝，秘書長請先回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:16:52.138857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:16:55.853143+08:00","text":"接下來我們再請范雲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}