{"error":false,"id":["169681"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169681,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169681","日期":"2026-05-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-28T10:32:23+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-28T10:46:41+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:18","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/89665fc2cee9c367b030ca51540da0197a79f49b44e074565064cfc36d5658375a383fe0619e3c695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:32:23 - 10:46:41","會議時間":"2026-05-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、國民黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。\n二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。\n三、委員林月琴等19人擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。\n【僅詢答】【第三案如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.8534687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.9040937500000001,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.257843750000001,"end":7.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.08471875,"end":7.101593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.101593750000001,"end":23.622218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.622218750000002,"end":23.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.79096875,"end":23.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.89221875,"end":24.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.07784375,"end":25.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.48284375,"end":43.838468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.12534375,"end":79.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.93409375,"end":100.04909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.09971875000001,"end":100.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.11659375,"end":100.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.36971875,"end":100.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.48784375000001,"end":115.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.96221875,"end":123.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.97784375,"end":129.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.00221875,"end":131.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.60534375,"end":139.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.06409375,"end":139.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.57034375,"end":139.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.68846875,"end":139.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.77284375000002,"end":139.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.87409375000001,"end":139.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.97534375,"end":141.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.19034375,"end":144.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.54409375,"end":154.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.13034375,"end":148.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.67409375,"end":152.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.74534375000002,"end":166.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.31284375,"end":167.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.68409375000002,"end":173.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.27034375000002,"end":170.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.42159375,"end":175.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.25659375,"end":179.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.84284375000001,"end":179.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.64846875,"end":181.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.13346875000002,"end":183.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.76596875,"end":184.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.79534375,"end":186.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.87971875000002,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.60096875000002,"end":187.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.47846875000002,"end":208.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.80846875,"end":210.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.90096875,"end":235.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.28096875000003,"end":242.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.25034375,"end":271.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.66221875000002,"end":253.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.39346875,"end":274.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.11034375,"end":282.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.35784375000003,"end":290.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.64346875,"end":305.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.75971875000005,"end":306.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.24471875,"end":313.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.21409375,"end":323.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.31096875000003,"end":315.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.34034375000005,"end":316.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.68096875000003,"end":327.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.93346875000003,"end":336.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.56909375000004,"end":336.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.72096875,"end":339.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.55596875000003,"end":339.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.06221875,"end":341.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.23909375,"end":343.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.40784375000004,"end":345.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.06159375000004,"end":351.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.41471875,"end":353.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.3259687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我們也不是反對行政院也沒有反對只是說我們現在已經在做了行政院說沒有修法的必要啊"},{"start":176.315,"end":199.174,"text":"沒有反對啦就是說現在已經在做了已經在做了那你就尊重立法院我們往下走啊我們尊重立法院尊重立法院好很好我要聽到這句話因為事實上這件事情真的不用因為院長個人的意見立法院大家都很理性來看待這件事情那我相信部長你也是想要做事情的"},{"start":199.594,"end":214.771,"text":"那所以我們今天召委排了這個巡打之後我們可以召開公聽會我們可以再逐條那我也希望在這段時間你們把你們的意見就是很專業的意見跟看法任何法案審查過程都是可以大家一起來商量商量出一個"},{"start":215.271,"end":241.049,"text":"最好的版本既能落實又能照顧到我們現在這些失智政者還有他的家屬還有這一些在服務的團體他們希望的目標我覺得這應該是最大公約數不用有一個特定的立場因為這個議題真的是大家要去面對的我們最近看到的這一些社會新聞事件有的人因為走失然後也有一人痛失了他爸爸就是在這種過程當中"},{"start":243.571,"end":266.664,"text":"現在有的家庭可能還沒有 但是未來也都會遇到所以我覺得這件事情應該是要用一個更客觀的角度我們共同來商議啦 我覺得這樣比較好了好不好那我們就繼續往下走啦那接下來我要問你的就是說在這一個這個整個失智症的這個服務量能的部分喔我給你看一張圖表你們剛剛一直說你們的服務量能總共已經達到37萬你們的串聯喔"},{"start":269.085,"end":290.53,"text":"但我做出來的圖表這再往下一張你的總服務量能我都不用重疊的我通常幫你加起來才209000你們的37萬是來自於哪裡我少算了哪一個部分現在你們整體的量能我算起來大概就是對應失智人口你的服務量能大概就是到一半"},{"start":293.159,"end":316.889,"text":"因為這個是現在是長照服務體系那另外還有是屬於拿到這個身心障礙證明的另外還有一部分他雖然沒有進入長照可是在醫療體系照顧的所以你把身障的加進來身障還有那個健保裡面我們有一些是就醫但是他不是他是就醫但是不是長照沒有進入長照你那個報告要給我37萬不能自己用喊的"},{"start":317.529,"end":335.222,"text":"因為我算起來大概就是209,000那這當中有一個比較複雜的就是剛剛我們那個系統串接完之後的那些人數這當中有一個BPSD就是據情緒行為症狀你們是用全責型的失智據點但是到目前為止才22個據點也才服務了256人"},{"start":340.406,"end":360.962,"text":"這一塊其實是現在很多 這個是最困難的對 最困難 也是對家屬來講 他們最需要政府協助的但你現在的量能你總共只有22個 很少耶對 我也覺得這個是我們的重點啦 應該要再增加因為這個部分是最困難你今年目標你要預計要增加多少"},{"start":363.115,"end":378.955,"text":"有嗎?你們有目標嗎?你們有目標嗎?就是BPS那個全車型這個你們全車型私自據點預計要增加多少?這我們來努力增加所以你看你們自己也還沒有定目標不敢定"},{"start":380.101,"end":405.349,"text":"這個推動是比較難對啊但是它很需要沒有問題啦這個我們來協調更多的醫院來因為這個醫療的需求比較高跟過去這個長照推動比較不熟悉所以這個需要我會來整合讓這個醫療的跨到這一邊才有辦法對所以這個就是部長我要跟你講的今天我們服務這一些失智症它的特殊性就在這邊"},{"start":406.529,"end":416.754,"text":"所以這一塊我希望你們可以好好的去強化來解決這樣一個問題好那這個所以部長剛剛已經答應了我們修法繼續往下走"},{"start":417.847,"end":436.338,"text":"我要再確定一次喔,因為你有公務行程,對修法繼續往下走,尊重立法院尊重立法院,當然一向都尊重立法院好好謝謝,你不要反對就好,我們就繼續往前推喔好謝謝,接下來我要問司法的部分喔,你如果有行程你可以先走沒關係司法的部分,來他早上這麼晚就要走了"},{"start":445.68,"end":448.451,"text":"來今天那個司法院來司法院"},{"start":450.046,"end":476.138,"text":"有進來在談這個失智症的時候事實上司法的保障還有法務部也上來司法的保障這一塊其實很重要因為民間團體跟我反映他們實務上有失智症患者他是輕度的但是他去到超商他有行動能力他去超商拿了東西然後也付了款但是他付款他就會少付"},{"start":476.798,"end":493.695,"text":"就是他知道要給付但是呢他給付的金額少了然後可能就要離開結果超商呢就把他當成是現行犯然後就通知警察然後家屬其實也來了家屬來了之後他說因為他是失智症患者他想要就是把金額補齊"},{"start":495.316,"end":519.594,"text":"然後給這個超商然後帶他離開但是這一個店家就很堅持就覺得他是現行犯就認為他要偷東西因為他對這個病症不了解然後就堅持要移送然後他就要走一連串的這個司法的訴訟我要問司法院跟法務部的是面對現在的這個失智症患者他們可能有這樣子的一個情況那你們在司法處遇上面有沒有針對這一個類型"},{"start":521.075,"end":547.222,"text":"家屬都願意出來了而且立刻趕到但是這類型還是堅持送辦那如果遇到這個檢察官也堅持起訴的他就要走一連串他變成是一個竊盜犯但他的前面是因為他有這個失智的症狀他還有付錢嘛他只是沒有付足那像這樣的情況你們實務上有沒有遇過那這個類型未來你們要建立什麼樣的體系就是來保護這一些失智者不要讓他輕易變成是一個犯罪者你們現在有在研議這些嗎"},{"start":550.354,"end":570.627,"text":"委員跟委員報告因為我們司法院這邊會處理到像委員剛剛講的這樣的案子都已經是很後端了就是檢察官要起訴了司法院才會收到這樣的案子那如果我們已經起訴的刑事案件裡面有這些失智症的患者的話目前我們司法院其實是有頒布一個身心障礙者監控司法指引那我們裡面其實也有"},{"start":571.247,"end":591.788,"text":"有提到失智者嗎?你是身心障礙者有深蹲失智者失智症的部分我們也是有說明的關於失智症的障礙特徵然後我們司法可以提供協助的重點可以使用的輔具還有溝通時候應該要注意的事項我們指引裡面其實都有說明那我們這個指引也有提供給各法院跟法官讓法官們在這個案件中如果有遇到失智症的患者的時候可以來做參考"},{"start":592.469,"end":610.962,"text":"那我們也當然是委員講到那個個案比如說個案到底有沒有構成犯罪那當然是法官個案去認定那只是說如果發現案件中確實有失事症患者的時候我們確實有提醒法官說要注意就要比如說詢問的時候要注意什麼樣的事情那可能要盡量使用比較簡短淺白的語句那字體"},{"start":611.502,"end":628.608,"text":"跟詢問的時候的開訂的時候比如說資料的提供啊字體的大小的設置我們其實都有跟法官在執印裡面都有蠻詳細的說明那提供讓施政患者在接近這個法院使用司法資源的時候也可以獲得比較充分的保障好那法務部呢"},{"start":630.151,"end":645.135,"text":"你們有相關的訓練嗎?有那樣的敏感度嗎?這種類型的案件因為失智症患者他的特性是他不是像失能者他就待在家裡他其實是有行動能力的但是伴隨他的失智他有些判斷可能會出現問題那像這種類型你們在偵辦的時候有特別去提醒嗎?或者應該怎麼處理嗎?在實務上"},{"start":653.058,"end":664.192,"text":"我自己個人經驗是並沒有很常遇到失智症的狀況像委員剛才講的案例的話因為第一線是警方處理假設店家"},{"start":665.39,"end":686.203,"text":"就是質疑要他提告那他的權益那事實上警方第一線處理也如果他們依法處理也只能現行犯把他移送到地檢署那移送到地檢署的話那當然就有我們內勤執行的檢察官來認定他這個狀況那如果說能現場個案判斷他真的是有一些"},{"start":687.642,"end":703.278,"text":"疾病上的因素或是施政狀況那當然處處遇上就會有特應該就是說針對他個人的個案狀況來做不同的處理啊他不會說一定說他少付一點錢就不會把他起訴那一定是說個案的來判斷這樣子"},{"start":704.836,"end":714.607,"text":"因為在這一次的修法裡面特別有這個條文就是要提到這些失智症患者他們的司法程序的保障整個風險辨識知識轉接還有專業培訓機制等等還有確保他在整個"},{"start":720.153,"end":733.479,"text":"偵查審判執行還有其他程序當中獲得公平事切而且可理解的對待這個其實是很重要的那我希望司法院跟法務部你們回去喔因為未來這個剛剛部長已經講了我們會推進這一個整個立法的程序喔這個跟兩個"},{"start":739.242,"end":766.747,"text":"部會都有關希望司法院跟法務部回去之後也針對這一點你們要去演繹因為將來如果立法通過之後我覺得這個就是實務上已經有這個相關的團體他們提出來這個家長都會家屬都會產生這樣的困擾那我們怎麼樣避免司法資源的浪費然後更友善的去理解然後可以有一個更合理的整個司法的程序我希望這個司法院跟法務部回去之後好好演繹好不好"},{"start":767.815,"end":775.083,"text":"我們都會在持續的在精進相關的措施好謝謝那兩位先請回那最後我提醒一下那個雖然部長離開了"},{"start":776.345,"end":802.807,"text":"你上來一下就是那個現在所有失智症的政策就是在決策資源跟預先規劃的部分其實我們是缺乏的所以未來在草案的這個第三條裡面特別有提到就是說失智症患者他在前期輕症的時候你怎麼樣尊重他的意願偏好生活脈絡跟權益資訊的保障你其實是要跟他溝通然後提供必要的資訊的"},{"start":803.968,"end":825.875,"text":"然後這個其實是很重要的但是我們現在社會的確有一些對於失智症患者會有一些汙名化或者是不理解以為說他在前期輕症的時候好像就完全失功能了然後完全好像他就不用去尊重他的意願或者是給他一些決策資源甚至在他在更前期的時候他有一些"},{"start":826.615,"end":850.144,"text":"及早的規劃事項其實是可以預先規劃的那這個都是現在我們做的還不夠的地方那這個未來是不是你們也應該要好好去研議這個是團體很希望我們可以更往前推進就是說失智症患者不要被汙名化那我們可以在前期輕症的時候有一些我們能做的我們應該要協助他然後也適度的尊重他的意願那這一塊你們可以去規劃嗎"},{"start":851.445,"end":858.275,"text":"好的 可以 感謝委員好 謝謝好 感謝委員 謝謝謝謝王月明委員的諮詢現在請廖委員向委員諮詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}