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剛剛部長剛剛也有回答嘛其實他現在他的成因確實就是說醫學上面 現在目前大家有認為血管性白先生市長你可以簡單回答我就好所以你是認同還是不認同他的這個說法也就是說失智只是一種症狀有沒有需要立法這個說法 這個質疑啦 你認同嗎"},{"start":97.94,"end":112.063,"text":"他確實是一個病症的表徵啊失智症確實是這樣所以你認同他只是一種症狀嗎你要確定喔這個連台灣失智症協會都出來打臉喔他們就是認為所以你還是要認為是這樣嗎是上禮拜五其實台灣失智症協會就來拜會各個黨團喔他們長期在深耕在這個領域喔所以您是認不認同院長講的這個話"},{"start":127.639,"end":149.518,"text":"好 次長我跟你說 你講不出你認同 為什麼因為你也比誰都清楚 他不只是一種症狀連台灣失智症協會也都公開打臉這句話 問題就在這裡為什麼今天會討論這個事 因為行政院最高層對失智症的認知跟你的專業 跟這38萬個失智的家庭是差了一大截"},{"start":150.399,"end":173.345,"text":"所以一個連失智要不要立法都還在質疑的行政院怎麼可以讓我們的失智症的家庭放心呢所以這就是為什麼不能靠誰的一句話需要靠一部法律喔所以次長要問你一下喔你們依照你們委託國衛院的這個相關的研究全國調查65歲以上的失智盛行率是7.99%85歲以上更高達23.23%大約是每四個85歲以上的長者就有一個對不對"},{"start":180.277,"end":184.16,"text":"所以換算人數現在有35萬如果包含年輕的就是有到38萬那他們遇過2041年畢竟68萬等於是翻倍啊那請問這個數字您"},{"start":198.768,"end":217.041,"text":"你認不認同 你有沒有瞭解 掌握到這個數字有嗎我完全掌握完全掌握很好所以就是在我們的委託報告裡面對 很好所以這68萬的背後其實代表的是68萬個家庭是的 沒錯對 那次長施志政的政策綱領啊政策綱領2.0去年底就到齊了 對不對對 沒錯對 那我直接問你新的獨立的3.0的行動綱領公告了沒"},{"start":228.755,"end":245.289,"text":"我們現在目前的一個做法就是我們現在目前就是把它在那個長照3.0裡面是一個專章所以就是沒公告因為沒有新的獨立的3.0的綱領已經公告了好我講給你聽好您看一下簡報我講給你聽這不叫做公告這不是"},{"start":245.729,"end":263.038,"text":"失智症的獨立的綱領喔這個失智症2.0的綱領2025年底到期你們沒有獨立的3.0然後你降級成了2.0 plus塞進長照3.0的一個專章你剛才講是專章嘛你們放到長照裡面的專章嘛所以我說沒有獨立的綱領啊沒有獨立的3.0綱領啊 對吧"},{"start":268.974,"end":289.124,"text":"所以我跟市長講一下,這我整理出來給你了嘛,沒有獨立的3.0,聽得清楚嗎?你是降級成所謂的2.0+,你塞進長照3.0的一個專章,所以換言之你沒有獨立的3.0綱領,那一個失智症他不是一個獨立的綱領的情況之下,"},{"start":290.43,"end":318.145,"text":"服務你可能會說服務沒有中斷或是有放到3.0裡面可是本質都只是一個行政命令它沒有法律的位階沒有強制力預算說砍可能就砍而且失智證這個失智牽涉12個部會你只把它放在長照底下一個專章夠嗎報告委員我覺得最重要的是要執行法律通過之後其實也是要執行"},{"start":320.447,"end":345.53,"text":"要執行是不是?最重要是執行的問題啊來次長我跟你講一個失智長輩可能的處境會發生什麼事失智最可怕的是我想你也很清楚他是不挑時間的一個失智的阿公他可能半夜就凌晨就突然起床出門那因為他人還可以正常的走動他只是忘了自己是誰要回到哪裡於是一家人在凌晨可能在街上就到處找"},{"start":346.725,"end":374.097,"text":"報警協尋我也有同仁也遇過這樣的事這個部分是內政部他可能被詐騙集團騙去開人頭帳戶一輩子的積蓄被騙光這可能是金管會法務部他還能不能開車上路這是交通部而照顧他的女兒為了他的工作為了他可能只能夠辭職那這是勞動部要管的所以一個失智者一個家庭他從凌晨到白天一整天他可能跨了四五個部會"},{"start":375.407,"end":399.26,"text":"然後你們會服務一個其實是指揮不動的你們沒有辦法指揮這麼多跨部會的事情所以最近也有這個相關的這個首都候選人就很重要的一個概念是要怎麼樣讓一個人順順的過一天要讓他跟家人的時間對齊對齊就可以發生很多事情可是失智症到底這個情況要怎麼對齊你要對齊你要跨很多的部會啊是"},{"start":401.221,"end":427.151,"text":"所以你要跨很多的部會啊你要跨很多的部會啊所以你在委員會裡面在處理這個問題啊所以沒錯所以他要跨很多部會所以我要講的事情是一個行政計畫一個行政命令是不夠的他需要跨部會的權力而且需要有人統治所以我們現在長照推動委員會裡面就在這個機制裡面處理好那我跟你講為什麼現在台灣施治政協會他們認為就是放在一個長照3.0裡面一個獨立的專章不夠嘛"},{"start":427.951,"end":454.877,"text":"為什麼非要專法不可因為現在你會說現在有政策綱領有長照3.0在做何必立法那我就是要告訴你為什麼行政計畫不夠一定要立一部法所以我剛剛舉例了一整個這個生活的過程第一行政計畫沒有法律位階第一行政計畫沒有法律位階所以你的預算執行可能換個部長就換了可能就轉完了那38萬個家庭的保障我相信這麼重的問題應該不會啦"},{"start":457.685,"end":483.531,"text":"市長你這個態度有點不好喔不叫做應該不會我再跟你講為什麼非要專法不可你剛剛說應該不會那你裡面還有一個應該的概念嘛所以應該不會還是有不確定性啊所以現在就是不能建立在看行政院的心情上也不能建立在可能人換了想法不同了就開始不執行了或是不對了所以第二行政計畫是指揮不動話不會的"},{"start":485.782,"end":511.717,"text":"只會不動跨部會的,你只能夠協調所以你有權指揮勞動部嗎?你有權指揮金管會嗎?所以只有法律才可以克與每個部會法定的責任針對失智症的患者和家庭第三,行政計畫也沒有克責做不好沒有任何人要負法律的責任所以這是為什麼今天我們要討論這件事情基本法才能夠把它變成國家的義務"},{"start":513.479,"end":526.321,"text":"我要跟你講的是這個部分我前面跟蘇是一連串要跟你這樣說的所以這是為什麼日本2023年通過2024年他開始實施實質證基本法而且他拉到了首相的層級"},{"start":527.987,"end":551.498,"text":"這部分一定要讓次長知道這個我了解對 韓國2011年就立法了對不對2012年實施 實行所以實質上這些國家他們是當成國安的問題在處理在立法的那我們現在目前已經有38萬的家庭遇到這樣的事情他很快舍得部會我想難道還不夠嗎所以我就是想要問次長我剛講這麼多是想問次長"},{"start":553.726,"end":578.675,"text":"所以衛福部你們支不支持施政基本法的立法?支持還是不支持?我們都會來多方來研議,謝謝所以您是研議,那您是支持還是不支持?所以我們會來聽各方的意見剛剛部長是說尊重立法院啦對不對,尊重立法院嘛所以我們立了這個基本法你們會支持等於是你們就尊重,就會支持是這樣嗎?我們尊重立法院好,尊重立法院"},{"start":580.165,"end":607.374,"text":"好所以再來主條的來跟您討論一下因為我們希望說次長現在失智症還有個很現實的問題其實很多人可能根本也不知道自己失智了因為失智症有很多是往往是沒有病識感沒錯對所以常常要等到家屬覺察察覺甚至可能要壓著去看醫生壓著去檢查他才可能確診那所以可是我們現在的成人健檢老人健檢到現在也沒有常態的納入"},{"start":608.774,"end":624.979,"text":"認知功能的評估所以我們是訴求是不是要回去把這個認知功能的檢測正式納入成人跟老人健檢然後並配套轉介的機制不要塞來塞去卻沒有處可以去這部分可不可以OK好我們來研議OK"},{"start":625.953,"end":645.647,"text":"好 演繹 那你的演繹是要給的其實現在是這樣啦我們現在目前就是全責型的這個醫院我們就是希望能夠在早期能夠來做透過這個方式來做一個早期的Screaming嘛對 就是要提早發現嘛你提早發現才知道剛剛部長在答詢的時候他也有說嘛我們現在會來加強有關於全責型這部分所以我剛剛上夜喔"},{"start":653.532,"end":681.889,"text":"剛剛所以這裡講的就是說早期這一塊還有公照中心這一塊對你要趕快去推動因為如果簡單來講你納入一個這個一個認知功能的基本檢測然後就是補助讓他們去做的話其實它是大概率會比較多人去用的因為事實上我認為現在38萬人搞不好還是有黑數喔很多人他可能有但是他不知道他也不想面對也不會自己主動說我要去篩檢嘛所以其實他可能真正受苦的家庭是更多的沒錯沒錯所以這個部分"},{"start":683.27,"end":705.008,"text":"請這個次長回去你們一個兩個禮拜可不可以給本席辦公室一個一個方向案報告兩個禮拜可不可以給本席辦公室這一塊好OK我們會來提問不過我也那個就是兩個補充啦第一個就是說現在目前全世界應該還沒有對於整個施政的普篩因為這個裡面其實基本上還是有精準的一個整個的一個檢測嘛"},{"start":706.05,"end":720.93,"text":"所以我剛說公照中心等這些的前端這邊趕快來強化但是你剛也認同要提早發現會比較好所以精準度是一個問題沒有錯但是現在有很多不同種的方式所以現在只是說你要提供一種認知檢測讓他"},{"start":723.013,"end":740.214,"text":"可以都去測試那當他出來之後如果真的有狀況再進一步的檢測嘛沒錯沒錯對嘛現在還有所謂的TOW的這個這個檢測方式沒錯沒錯大家就三個階段嘛就是像委員說的就是先Screaming然後呢整個確認然後再自聯所以我本期要求具體的就是說早期的這個認知基準檢測的部分"},{"start":741.556,"end":770.646,"text":"第二個就是年輕失智症的這個發病的時候他人可能還在上班那現在的制度大多是等到他失能失業家庭垮了才接手所以我認為啦這個可能要比照這個CRPD的精神雇主對於初期失智員工有一些職場合理調整的義務然後政府要建立對於年輕型的失智職場的支持那另外現行的家庭照顧假也只有短期臨時性那可能不足以"},{"start":771.486,"end":790.259,"text":"處理失智症長期的追蹤、陪診、行為照顧或是照顧安排所以到時候應該也要去規劃有沒有另外的價別的規劃希望這個部分這個勞動部的這部分主要是勞動部的權責我在這裡講出來希望勞動部在這方向也要演繹勞動部有沒有代表來有那個副司長"},{"start":803.847,"end":812.708,"text":"委員剛剛所提的勞動部的意見就是包含說這些假的研議或者是說相關的就業支持這一塊我們勞動部會帶回去研議"},{"start":813.772,"end":840.248,"text":"那研議的時間呢一個月因為委員因為這個部分其實我們之前其實委員會這邊也有做過討論所以有委員來要求我們勞動部跟衛福部這邊因為這個還是有涉及到跨部會對所以之前其實很好都有做一些所以你凸顯出的基本法的重要性因為跨部會啦你們如果沒有這個的話其實一直研議研議我也不知道研議到什麼時候這個真的需要有更高位的層級來指揮那"},{"start":842.589,"end":861.455,"text":"所以你說因為牽扯到衛福部那你還是總是要給本席一個時間吧還要跟他們溝通對不對所以好那我就再追問啦剛剛有說到現在有在執行那我想要請問一下你們針對失智症這件事情我請次長回答好了你們跨部會開會了幾次"},{"start":863.99,"end":882.856,"text":"包委員關於這一個相關議題我們有一個雙次長跟勞動部這邊三次長雙次長我記得應該有三次的會議從什麼時候到現在三次可不可以提供給本席辦公室一個時間和你們討論的內容以及結果好不好結論好嗎那這個會後就提供給我好不好一個禮拜以內給我給本席"},{"start":884.896,"end":907.878,"text":"好再來這個也要問次長因為第三個訴求就是要比照癌症的登記我們希望可以更有數據可以掌握這個所謂的個案所以我們失智症過去癌症登記有掌握每一個確診的個案失智症目前就是流行病學的推估連這個確診者的程度分佈用了哪些長照服務其實都不精準"},{"start":908.74,"end":917.897,"text":"然後也不確實所以我們希望要建立全國失事證的登錄系統讓政策從推估數據走向精準的治理"},{"start":920.672,"end":947.799,"text":"這個部分我請那個市長謝謝委員那這部分其實我們也在朝這個方向努力那我們現在確實已經有一個失智症的一個管理系統那針對這個系統我們現在也其實剛剛有很多的委員也都用了啦有都有講了嘛然後就是說就是這個整合的不好然後很多數據也離啦啦所以這才是為什麼我們說應該要更精準的去推動我知道剛剛部長也有說會回去再精進吧是吧是"},{"start":948.609,"end":952.313,"text":"好那再來第4個要請這個法務部啊法務部內政部好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝次長"},{"start":964.996,"end":989.11,"text":"來這個我想要說的事情這個訴求人就是要說失智症可能會被當成人頭賬戶那徵訊時的情緒不穩定也會被當成態度不佳那第一線的檢警都未必可以認得失智齁所以我們希望在司法辨識跟程序保障是不是可以到時候也要明文納入基本法請你們回去到時候討論的時候可以針對這個部分給立法機關一個建議好嗎可以齁OK"},{"start":992.622,"end":994.668,"text":"好 那你可以講一下OK 因為要記錄嘛是 謝謝委員"},{"start":997.352,"end":1025.764,"text":"那最後就是我要再跟這個次長說一下這是難得的朝野共識其實除了三黨幾乎都有提除了國民黨民眾黨之外民進黨的林月琴召委她自己也提了一個基本法所以我們希望今天最後三個承諾就是說第一個希望獨立的失智症政策綱領你們應該要獨立出來來發一個給一個公告的這個月份"},{"start":1026.904,"end":1032.848,"text":"這個部分我想衛福部是可以馬上做的這部分你們可不可以6月底所以6月底會獨立出來嗎沒錯沒錯"},{"start":1037.486,"end":1043.97,"text":"會有一個實質證的獨立綱領3.0就是行動計畫3.0行動計畫3.0六月份六月底六月底之前會給好那六月底我們到時候再來追蹤那再來就是我們希望這個衛福部要支持立法然後把這個統籌層級拉到行政院剛剛的質詢過程中有發現跨部會就是會有問題"},{"start":1059.901,"end":1073.279,"text":"包委員我必須還是要說明一下我們現在目前統籌層級就是行政院有行政院長但是有在法裡面有明確的規範說是有行政院長人家日本是首相出來統籌"},{"start":1074.961,"end":1087.266,"text":"我們怎麼會比日本還要不重視呢我相信我們應該是做得到的我們都非常非常重視所以希望重視就要有行動表現我們希望是至少由行政院長來做統籌最後我們希望到時候討論之前"},{"start":1090.807,"end":1106.244,"text":"這個如果行政院回去思考了一下可以的話儘速把你們的版本也送出來啊不然我想失智者海嘯也已經來了我們的超高齡化社會昨天大家講少子話今天其實我們台灣面臨的還有一個超高齡化社會的問題所以我們不能夠讓國家對於這35萬個其實是加年輕是38萬個家庭"},{"start":1110.305,"end":1125.139,"text":"的這個回應喔還停在這個不確定然後還有不夠不足夠的法律位階好我們希望的就是趕快剛剛至少你們有承諾獨立的綱領生要有個行政計劃3.0好好那謝謝好感謝委員謝謝謝謝六委員六委想委員的諮詢現在請"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:46:51.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:46:52.672000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，感謝主席今天排案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:46:54.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:01.317000+08:00","text":"我想這個蠻重要的，因為這次本席到WHA的時候，跟部長私底下在聊也在聊這個失智症的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:02.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:03.959000+08:00","text":"想要先請呂次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:03.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:03.979000+08:00","text":"有請呂次長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:03.979000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:13.580000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:13.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:16.341000+08:00","text":"次長，我們今天就談制度，沒有要談個案。好。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:17.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:26.704000+08:00","text":"行政院長有公開質疑，失智症就是一種症狀、一種態樣，有沒有必要立一部基本法？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:27.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:31.326000+08:00","text":"我想要先問你的專業判斷，失智症是一種症狀嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:31.326000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:33.566000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:33.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:34.647000+08:00","text":"有需要立法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:34.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:36.167000+08:00","text":"你認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:36.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:45.330000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我要先澄清，院長的意思有一個上下脈絡，這個脈絡就是……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:46.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:50.492000+08:00","text":"次長，您看一下，僅針對一種症狀，符合社會需要嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:50.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:53.833000+08:00","text":"這是卓院長講的話呀！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:55.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:47:57.294000+08:00","text":"所以我就是問你，你認同他的這個說法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:47:59.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:10.250000+08:00","text":"我現在先說，部長剛剛也有回答，它的成因確實就是在醫學上面，目前大家有認為血管性的或者相關的……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:13.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:16.834000+08:00","text":"沒關係，次長，您簡單回答我就好，所以你是認同還是不認同他的這個說法？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:17.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:20.175000+08:00","text":"也就是失智症只是一種症狀，有沒有需要立法？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:21.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:22.477000+08:00","text":"這個說法、這個質疑，你認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:25.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:29.201000+08:00","text":"它確實是一個病症的表徵，失智症確實是這樣。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:29.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:31.381000+08:00","text":"所以你認同它只是一種症狀嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:31.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:31.841000+08:00","text":"你要確定喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:32.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:34.522000+08:00","text":"這個連台灣失智症協會都出來打臉喔！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:35.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:37.122000+08:00","text":"所以你還是認為是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:37.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:38.522000+08:00","text":"上禮拜五台灣失智症協會就來拜會各個黨團，他們長期深耕在這個領域。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:38.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:39.063000+08:00","text":"所以您認不認同院長講的這個話？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:54.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:48:58.002000+08:00","text":"好，次長，我跟你說，你講不出你認同，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:48:58.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:49:08.231000+08:00","text":"因為你也比誰都清楚，它不只是一種症狀，連台灣失智症協會也都公開打臉這句話，問題就在這裡，為什麼今天會討論這個事？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:49:08.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:49:16.498000+08:00","text":"因為行政院最高層對失智症的認知與你的專業、與這38萬個失智症家庭差了一大截！","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:49:17.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:49:24.841000+08:00","text":"一個連失智症要不要立法都還在質疑的行政院，怎麼可以讓我們的失智症家庭放心呢？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:49:26.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:49:29.802000+08:00","text":"這就是為什麼不能靠誰的一句話，需要靠一部法律。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:49:31.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:49:40.345000+08:00","text":"次長，要問你一下，依照你們委託國衛院的相關研究進行全國調查，65歲以上的失智症盛行率是7.99%，85歲以上更高達23.23%，大約是每4個85歲以上的長者就有1個，對不對？沒錯……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:49:40.345000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:49:43.811000+08:00","text":"沒錯喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:49:43.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:49:47.277000+08:00","text":"這是我們委託國衛院的研究，盛行率是這樣沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:49:47.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:06.309000+08:00","text":"所以換算人數現在有35萬，如果包含年輕的就是到38萬，他們預估2041年逼近68萬，等於是翻倍，請問這個數字你認不認同？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:06.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:08.951000+08:00","text":"你有沒有掌握到這個數字？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:09.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:10.812000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我完全掌握。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:10.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:11.692000+08:00","text":"有完全掌握很好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:11.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:12.973000+08:00","text":"在我們的委託報告裡面就是這樣。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:14.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:16.756000+08:00","text":"這68萬的背後代表的是68萬個家庭。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:18.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:22.240000+08:00","text":"次長，失智症政策綱領2.0去年底就到期了，對不對？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:22.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:22.620000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:22.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:24.021000+08:00","text":"我直接問你，新的、獨立的3.0行動綱領公告了沒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:36.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:42.341000+08:00","text":"目前在長照3.0裡面是一個專章。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:43.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:44.022000+08:00","text":"所以就是沒公告嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:44.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:46.804000+08:00","text":"因為沒有新的、獨立的3.0的綱領嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:46.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:47.645000+08:00","text":"已經公告了，我們已經公告了。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:48.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:50:51.528000+08:00","text":"你看一下簡報，我講給你聽，這個叫做公告嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:50:52.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:51:08.837000+08:00","text":"這不是失智症的獨立綱領，失智症政策2.0的綱領，2025年底到期，你們沒有獨立的3.0，然後你降級成了2.0 plus塞進長照3.0的專章，你剛才講是專章，你放到長照裡面的專章嘛！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:51:08.837000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:51:09.837000+08:00","text":"是專章沒錯啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:51:08.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:51:09.418000+08:00","text":"所以我說沒有獨立的3.0綱領，對吧？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:51:09.418000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:51:10.418000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們目前……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:51:09.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:51:22.857000+08:00","text":"所以我跟次長講一下，目前並沒有獨立的3.0，你聽得清楚嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:51:22.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:51:27.559000+08:00","text":"你是降級成所謂的2.0 plus，然後塞進長照3.0的專章。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:51:29.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:51:56.280000+08:00","text":"換言之，你沒有獨立的3.0綱領，失智症在不是獨立綱領的情況之下，你可能會說服務沒有中斷或是有放到3.0裡面，可是本質都只是行政命令，它沒有法律的位階，沒有強制力，預算說砍可能就砍，而且失智問題牽涉12個部會，你只把它放在長照底下的一個專章夠嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:51:56.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:05.125000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我覺得最重要的是要執行，法律通過之後，其實也是要執行，對不對？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:07.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:08.148000+08:00","text":"你要執行是不是？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:08.148000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:09.148000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:09.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:09.809000+08:00","text":"最重要還是……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:09.809000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:10.809000+08:00","text":"當然是要執行啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:10.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:11.251000+08:00","text":"對啊，就是執行的問題啊！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:11.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:46.831000+08:00","text":"次長，我跟你講一個失智長輩的處境可能會發生什麼事，我想你也很清楚，失智最可怕的是不挑時間，一個失智的阿公可能半夜或凌晨就突然起床出門，因為他還可以正常走動，他只是忘了自己是誰、要回到哪裡，於是一家人可能凌晨就在街上到處找或是報警協尋，我也有同仁曾經遇過這樣的事，這個部分是內政部管的；他可能被詐騙集團騙去開人頭帳戶，一輩子的積蓄被騙光，這可能是金管會、法務部管的；他還能不能開車上路？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:47.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:52:54.374000+08:00","text":"這是交通部管的；照顧他的女兒，為了他可能只能辭職，這是勞動部要管的。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:52:54.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:24.079000+08:00","text":"所以一個有失智者的家庭，從凌晨到白天，一整天的問題可能跨了四、五個部會，一個衛福部其實是指揮不動的，你們沒有辦法指揮這麼多跨部會的事情，所以最近也有相關的首都候選人提出一個很重要的概念，就是要怎麼樣讓一個人順順的過一天，要讓他跟家人的時間對齊，對齊就可以發生很多事情，可是失智症這個情況到底要怎麼對齊？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:24.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:26.220000+08:00","text":"要對齊要跨很多的部會啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:26.220000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:28.221000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們行政院層級正在處理這個問題啊……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:28.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:29.662000+08:00","text":"所以你要跨很多的部會啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:31.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:32.823000+08:00","text":"沒錯，所以我們在委員會裡面處理這個問題啊，而且是行政院的層級。","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:35.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:43.487000+08:00","text":"因為你們要跨很多部會，所以我要講一個行政計畫、一個行政命令是不夠的，它需要跨部會的權力，而且需要有人統籌，所以……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:44.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:46.628000+08:00","text":"報告委員，所以長照推動委員會就在這個機制裡面處理。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:47.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:54.131000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，為什麼現在台灣失智症協會認為放在長照3.0裡面一個獨立的專章不夠？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:54.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:53:55.971000+08:00","text":"為什麼非要專法不可？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:53:57.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:00.352000+08:00","text":"你會說現在有政策綱領、有長照3.0在做，何必立法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:01.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:05.554000+08:00","text":"我就是要告訴你，為什麼行政計畫不夠，一定要立一部法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:06.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:21.217000+08:00","text":"我剛剛舉例一整個生活的過程，第一，行政計畫沒有法律位階，所以你的預算執行可能換個部長就換了、可能就轉彎了，38萬個家庭的保障不能……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:21.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:21.857000+08:00","text":"我相信這麼重要的問題應該不會啦！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:24.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:26.725000+08:00","text":"次長，你的態度有點不好喔！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:28.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:28.846000+08:00","text":"什麼叫做「應該不會」？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:28.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:37.668000+08:00","text":"我在跟你講為什麼非要專法不可，你剛才說「應該不會」，那裡面還有一個「應該」的概念，所以「應該不會」還是有不確定性啊！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:38.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:47.090000+08:00","text":"現在就是不能建立在看行政院的心情上，也不能建立在可能人換了、想法不同了，就開始不執行了或是不對了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:48.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:57.705000+08:00","text":"第二，行政計畫是指揮不動跨部會的，你只能夠協調，請問你有權指揮勞動部嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:57.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:54:59.626000+08:00","text":"你有權指揮金管會嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:54:59.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:55:03.648000+08:00","text":"針對失智症患者和家庭，只有法律才可以課予每個部會法定的責任。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:55:06.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:55:12.353000+08:00","text":"第三，行政計畫沒有課責，做不好沒有任何人要負法律的責任。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:55:13.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:55:18.717000+08:00","text":"這就是為什麼今天我們要討論這件事情的原因，基本法才能夠把它變成國家的義務。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:55:20.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:55:36.228000+08:00","text":"我要跟你講的是這個部分，我前面的論述是一連串要跟你這樣說的，這也是為什麼日本2023年通過，2024年開始實施失智症基本法，而且拉到了首相的層級，這部分一定要讓次長知道。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:55:37.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:55:37.588000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個我了解。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:55:39.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:55:56.617000+08:00","text":"韓國2011年就立法了，2012年施行，所以失智症在這些國家是當成國安的問題在處理、在立法的，目前我們已經有38萬個家庭遇到這樣的事情，它橫跨12個部會，這難道還不夠嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:55:56.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:04.267000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講這麼多是想要問次長，衛福部支不支持失智症基本法的立法？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:05.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:06.168000+08:00","text":"支持還是不支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:06.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:08.389000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們會多方來研議，謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:10.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:12.530000+08:00","text":"你說研議，那你是支持還是不支持？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:12.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:15.511000+08:00","text":"我們會聽取各方的意見。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:15.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:23.334000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長是說尊重立法院，所以如果我們立了基本法，你們就尊重、就會支持，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:23.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:24.234000+08:00","text":"我們尊重立法院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:24.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:25.655000+08:00","text":"好，尊重立法院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:27.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:41.990000+08:00","text":"再來逐條跟您討論一下，失智症還有一個很現實的問題，很多人可能根本不知道自己失智了，因為失智症有很多往往是沒有病識感的。沒錯。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:42.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:56:49.472000+08:00","text":"常常要等到家屬察覺，甚至可能要押著去看醫生、押著去檢查，他才可能確診。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:56:50.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:57:10.378000+08:00","text":"可是我們的成人健檢、老人健檢到現在也沒有常態納入認知功能的評估，所以我們訴求是不是要回去把認知功能的檢測正式納入成人跟老人健檢，並配套轉介的機制，不要塞來塞去卻無處可去，這部分可不可以？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:57:10.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:57:11.519000+08:00","text":"好，我們來研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:57:13.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:57:14.914000+08:00","text":"那你的研議是要給……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:57:16.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:57:28.824000+08:00","text":"我們目前是權責型的醫院，針對得了失智的部分，我們就是希望能夠在早期透過這個方式來做早期的screening。","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:57:28.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:57:29.825000+08:00","text":"就是要提早發現嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:57:30.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:57:31.826000+08:00","text":"當然、當然，剛剛部長在答詢的時候也有說，我們現在會來加強有關於權責型部分的整個布建……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:57:32.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:57:55.181000+08:00","text":"剛剛講的就是你要趕快去推動，簡單來講，你納入一個認知功能的基本檢測，然後補助讓他們去做的話，其實大概率是會比較多人去用的。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:57:56.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:58:07.448000+08:00","text":"我認為現在說的38萬人搞不好還是有黑數，很多人可能有，但是他不知道也不想面對，也不會主動說自己要去篩檢，所以真正受苦的家庭可能是更多的。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:58:08.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:58:15.734000+08:00","text":"這部分請次長回去研議，你們兩個禮拜之內可不可以給本席辦公室一個方向和報告？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:58:18.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:58:37.977000+08:00","text":"OK，我們會提供，不過我有兩點補充，第一個是目前全世界應該還沒有對於失智症的普篩，因為這基本上還是要有精準的檢測，我們的公照中心在前端這邊會趕快來強化……","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:58:38.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:58:40.921000+08:00","text":"但是你剛剛也認同提早發現會比較好，對不對？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:58:40.921000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:58:41.921000+08:00","text":"當然，當然是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:58:41.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:58:54.819000+08:00","text":"所以精準度是一個問題沒有錯，但是現在有很多不同的方式，所以現在只是你要提供一種認知檢測，讓他可以都去測試，當他測試出來之後，如果真的有狀況再進一步的檢測嘛！沒錯。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:58:55.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:58:57.763000+08:00","text":"現在還有所謂Tau的檢測方式。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:58:57.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:59:03.450000+08:00","text":"沒錯，現在是三個階段，就是像委員說的先screening，然後確認，最後再治療。","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:59:04.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:59:23.761000+08:00","text":"所以本席具體要求的是早期認知基本檢測的部分，第二個就是年輕失智症發病的時候，他可能還在上班，現在的制度大多是等到他失能、失業、家庭垮了才接手，我認為可能要比照CRPD的精神。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:59:24.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:59:32.124000+08:00","text":"雇主對於初期失智員工有一些職場合理調整的義務，然後政府要建立對於年輕型失智者職場的支持。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:59:33.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:59:52.515000+08:00","text":"另外，現行的家庭照顧假也只有短期、臨時性，可能不足以處理失智症正常期的追蹤、陪診、行為照顧或是照顧安排，所以到時候應該也要去規劃有沒有另外的假別，這部分主要是勞動部的權責。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T10:59:52.515000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T10:59:53.515000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:59:52.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:59:57.179000+08:00","text":"我在這裡講出來，希望這方向勞動部也要研議，今天勞動部有沒有代表來？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T10:59:57.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T10:59:57.259000+08:00","text":"請副司長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王副司長金蓉","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:10.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:19.708000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛所提與勞動部有關的意見，包含這些假的研議或與就業支持這一塊，勞動部會帶回去研議。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:20.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:21.693000+08:00","text":"研議的時間呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:23.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:23.233000+08:00","text":"一個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副司長金蓉","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:24.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:33.840000+08:00","text":"委員，對這部分其實之前委員會也有做過討論，所以由委員來要求勞動部與衛福部……這畢竟涉及到……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:34.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:35.401000+08:00","text":"跨部會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副司長金蓉","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:35.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:38.523000+08:00","text":"對，所以之前其實都有做一些……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:38.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:41.344000+08:00","text":"所以你凸顯出基本法的重要性，因為涉及跨部會。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:42.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:47.228000+08:00","text":"如果沒有基本法的話，就算一直研議也不知道要研議到什麼時候，這真的需要更高位的層級來指揮。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:49.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:54.211000+08:00","text":"你說牽涉衛福部，但總還是要給本席一個時間吧？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"王副司長金蓉","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:54.211000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:56.571000+08:00","text":"其實上次……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:56.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:58.852000+08:00","text":"還要跟他們溝通，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副司長金蓉","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:58.852000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T11:00:59.852000+08:00","text":"對，還要再做一些討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:00:59.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:07.095000+08:00","text":"那我就再追問，剛剛說現在有在執行，所以我想請問一下，針對失智症這件事情……我請次長回答好了。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:07.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:08.435000+08:00","text":"你們跨部會開會了幾次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:11.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:19.313000+08:00","text":"報告委員，對於這個議題，我們跟勞動部有一個雙次長會議，我記得應該有開過三次會議。","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:19.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:20.313000+08:00","text":"從什麼時候到現在三次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:20.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:23.094000+08:00","text":"可不可以提供給本席辦公室時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:23.094000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:24.094000+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:23.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:26.535000+08:00","text":"還有你們討論的內容及結論，好嗎？好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:27.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:28.235000+08:00","text":"會後就提供給我，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:28.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:29.675000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜以內給我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:31.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:31.896000+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:32.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:33.858000+08:00","text":"再來這問題也要問次長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:34.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:40.605000+08:00","text":"第三個訴求就是失智症比照癌症做登記，因為我們希望可以有數據，也可以掌握個案。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:42.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:01:57.002000+08:00","text":"由於過去針對癌症做登記，讓政府可以掌握每一個確診個案；至於失智症，目前就只是流行病學的推估，連確診者的程度、分布、用了哪些長照服務其實都不精準，也不確實。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:01:57.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:04.877000+08:00","text":"所以我們希望能建立全國失智症登錄系統，讓政策從推估數據走向精準治理。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:08.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:11.053000+08:00","text":"我請司長說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"祝司長健芳","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:11.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:11.653000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"祝司長健芳","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:12.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:19.635000+08:00","text":"對此，其實我們也在朝這方向努力，我們現在已經有失智症管理系統，針對該系統我們也……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:20.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:22.876000+08:00","text":"其實剛剛有很多委員都試過了，也都講了……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"祝司長健芳","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:22.876000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:23.876000+08:00","text":"建置了九個系統。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:23.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:34.779000+08:00","text":"也說整合得不好，很多數據都「離離落落」，這就是為什麼我說應該更精準去推動的原因，剛剛次長也說回去會再精進，是吧？是。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:36.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:02:39.113000+08:00","text":"第四個問題我要請教法務部及內政部。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:02:51.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:00.341000+08:00","text":"我想要說的事情與訴求是：失智症患者可能會被當成人頭帳戶，且偵訊時情緒不穩定會被當成態度不佳。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:01.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:10.587000+08:00","text":"第一線的檢警未必能辨識失智，所以就司法辨識與程序保障，屆時是不是也要明文納入基本法？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:11.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:16.090000+08:00","text":"請你們回去討論時，可以針對這部分給立法機關一個建議，好嗎？可以？OK？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:20.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:20.946000+08:00","text":"你可以講一下話，因為要紀錄。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊檢察官石宇","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:21.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:21.668000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:24.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:38.178000+08:00","text":"最後我要再跟次長說，這是難得的朝野共識，三黨幾乎都有提案，除了國民黨、民眾黨之外，民進黨的林月琴召委也提了一個基本法。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:39.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:55.705000+08:00","text":"最後，我希望可以得到三個承諾：第一，希望有獨立的失智症政策綱領，你們應該要獨立出來，並發出公告月份，我想這是衛福部可以馬上做的。","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:56.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:57.086000+08:00","text":"這部分你們可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:57.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:58.467000+08:00","text":"我們在6月底……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:58.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:59.748000+08:00","text":"所以6月底會獨立出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:03:59.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:03:59.848000+08:00","text":"沒錯、沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"祝司長健芳","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:04.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:04.726000+08:00","text":"我們會有一個行動計畫。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:05.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:05.327000+08:00","text":"會針對失智症有獨立綱領3.0？","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"祝司長健芳","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:05.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:05.467000+08:00","text":"行動計畫3.0。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:05.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:05.547000+08:00","text":"行動計畫3.0？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:06.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:06.427000+08:00","text":"6月底之前會給？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:06.427000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:07.888000+08:00","text":"6月底之前會公布。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:07.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:08.268000+08:00","text":"6月底時再來追蹤。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:08.268000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:09.268000+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:08.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:10.150000+08:00","text":"再來，希望衛福部要支持立法，並將統籌層級拉到行政院。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:10.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:10.970000+08:00","text":"透過剛剛的質詢過程就發現，一旦涉及跨部會就是會有問題。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:27.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:29.264000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我還是必須說明一下。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:29.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:31.667000+08:00","text":"目前的統籌層級就是行政院……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:32.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:37.575000+08:00","text":"是有行政院長，但法裡面有明確的……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:37.575000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:38.575000+08:00","text":"是行政院副院長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:38.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:44.662000+08:00","text":"有明確的規範是由行政院長……日本是由首相出來統籌，我們怎麼會比日本還要不重視呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:45.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:46.783000+08:00","text":"我相信我們應該是做得到的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:46.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:48.243000+08:00","text":"委員，我們都非常、非常重視。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:49.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:04:52.945000+08:00","text":"既然重視就要有行動表現，希望至少要由行政院長來統籌。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:04:52.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:05:02.232000+08:00","text":"最後，希望在討論前，行政院可以回去思考一下，儘速將你們的版本送出來！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:05:03.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:05:07.037000+08:00","text":"失智症海嘯已經來了，我們畢竟是一個超高齡化的社會！","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:05:07.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:05:22.830000+08:00","text":"昨天大家講少子化，其實今天臺灣面臨的還有超高齡化的社會問題，所以我們不能讓國家對於這三十五萬個家庭，若加上年輕患者的話，其實是三十八萬個家庭的回應，還停在不確定、不足夠的法律位階上。","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-05-28T11:05:23.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:05:30.538000+08:00","text":"我們希望的就是趕快，至少剛剛你們有承諾會有獨立的綱領，有行動計畫3.0，謝謝。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-05-28T11:05:31.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:05:31.438000+08:00","text":"感謝委員，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T11:05:31.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:05:32.119000+08:00","text":"謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-28T11:05:32.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-28T11:05:32.139000+08:00","text":"現在請蘇清泉委員質詢。","quality":0.3}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}