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謝謝以及徐主任經貿人員培訓所代理所長李奎德理所長工商輔導中心參事監主任雲端"},{"start":1399.266,"end":1417.131,"text":"雲瑞榮主任 謝謝台電公司曾文森董事長王耀廷總經理台糖公司吳明昌董事長台水公司李佳龍董事長以及中油公司方振仁董事長 謝謝"},{"start":1419.602,"end":1426.226,"text":"好我們現在請這個本禮拜進的議程請經濟部業務報告我們現在請經濟部部長龔明欣部長做報告那我用"},{"start":1438.72,"end":1459.014,"text":"很快的時間啦這個是來簡要的向各位報告一下進一步可能的業務那我想前一兩頁主要是國際情勢跟台灣的經濟狀況我就跳過那台灣經濟狀況整體現在算是不錯的那到第四頁那看到的就是我們整個"},{"start":1460.223,"end":1481.938,"text":"经济部可能未来的实施的这个经济作为那主要大概有五大项那前面三项大概是主要产业的这个支持那第一项大概就是专门产业跟中小企业的支持五大信贷产业还有支持全球布局后面两项呢是基础工程水跟电的支持先看到下一页"},{"start":1483.188,"end":1507.47,"text":"那首先呢 事實上從經濟部來講的話除了這個常規性的預算事實上還有兩位特別預算一個是因應國際形勢的460億的特別預算丹納斯颱風的187億的資金那主要的做法 丹納斯颱風主要還是在水利的店的復原那因應國際形勢主要是產業的支持包括貸款 還有升級轉型 以及海外訂單"},{"start":1508.971,"end":1515.783,"text":"那請看到下一頁第6頁這個針對傳統產業跟中小微的提升的部分請看到第7頁"},{"start":1517.113,"end":1539.853,"text":"那我们还是透过了这个因应情势的460亿来支持这个传统产业跟中小为企业那8月7号已经开始以往积极开始执行了那透过四大方案前两项是贷款的部分然后两项是研发补助跟争取订单那目前收的案子主要大概"},{"start":1540.413,"end":1555.161,"text":"下面有四項總共大概是1286件那我們會積極來處理請看到下一頁那第八頁就是說除了特別預算之外之前對於這個中小微多元振興發展計畫已經在推動了"},{"start":1556.241,"end":1572.376,"text":"到8月底為止事實上我們累積的諮詢跟輔導已經超過了15萬家那這個我們會持續來進行請看到下一頁那第九頁是投資台灣的三大方案再延長那這一次的延長主要是有下面有講到"},{"start":1573.564,"end":1602.464,"text":"扩大这个预算然后还有交据在五大信贷产业扩张然后它加大着也有加大的这个优惠措施比如说新增的这个贷款额度是7200亿而且也调高了这个支付银行委办手续费的减免然后另外我们也可以提高移工的比例的上限请看到下一页第二大项就是发展五大信贷产业壮大台湾的这个科技实力那下一页"},{"start":1603.991,"end":1618.251,"text":"五大信貸產業的部分我們就怎麼樣大致上的一些規劃已經完備那我們現在就積極來落實所以也有相關的KPI包括半導體 人工智慧還有自身的通訊還有軍工 還有安控請委員參考"},{"start":1620.271,"end":1634.189,"text":"請看到下一頁那針對行政院推動的AI新十大建設的部分那經濟部主要負責主責主辦的有兩項一個是矽光子的技術那我們現在是希望結合產業聯盟還有"},{"start":1635.92,"end":1657.618,"text":"研究法人怎么样来开发矽光纸的技术然后希望可以领先全世界把这个生态体系把它build up起来那另外一块就是百工百业的智慧应用那我们现在已经成立了产业竞争的辅导团主动的去协助中小微企业还有传统产业导入AI那请看到下一页"},{"start":1658.752,"end":1680.473,"text":"那第13页的部分就是说AI方面我们对应用的人才也可以提供一些补助性的一些透过所谓的AI新旧计划那也提供了一些培训的费用的补助还有学习的奖励金的补助希望透过培训以后然后再到企业界真正的有签约落实"},{"start":1682.435,"end":1705.078,"text":"那第14頁就是支持產業在立足台灣之外我們就要開始支持產業的全球佈局那在第15頁的部分我們看到了台灣事實上在全世界的這個貿易或者投資已經慢慢趨於平衡好我們看到第16頁那目前來講的話爭取海外訂單除了我們"},{"start":1705.894,"end":1723.136,"text":"開始有補助廠商參加國際間的這些展會之外我們自己也辦了很多展會把客戶招到台灣來那是左邊的部分右邊的部分是全球佈局我們現在已經在捷克日本台灣也設立了台灣的貿易投資中心來"},{"start":1724.237,"end":1739.623,"text":"服务我们企业那下面是说TIMA这个电电工会他们也有兴趣在墨西哥 波兰 印度 菲律宾等等设立一些科技园区我想这个部分我们政府可以跟他们来做一些合作"},{"start":1740.745,"end":1764.017,"text":"好 下一頁那有關於治水的部分水的部分有分成兩個部分請看到第18頁主要是一個治水跟供水那治水的部分我們還是要系統性的治水那這個行政院已經通過在118年裡面要編列1000億的預算來補助就是縣市管河川的部分那希望可以達到最小"},{"start":1764.797,"end":1778.476,"text":"淹水的面積最快的退水還有最高的安全標準那供水的部分呢還是透過了開源節流調度備源那希望可以在125年裡面我們的供給可以遠大於需求而且還有餘裕200多萬噸一天"},{"start":1781.119,"end":1808.006,"text":"請看到下一頁第19頁那對於降低漏水力的部分也是經濟部重要的目標那目前我們的目標今年是可以降到11.55%我們希望在203031年的時候可以降到10請看到下一頁那剛剛提到的這個就是說水電的部分在丹納斯颱風我們有一些預算來做一些支持那另外就是"},{"start":1810.59,"end":1835.101,"text":"马太安西的这个议题的部分我们也希望可以追加大概就是把那个提防加高加宽的部分就是一个超级提防希望可以追加预算40亿请看到下一页那有关于供电的部分那今年我们还是会增加这个燃气机组的部分那今年预估陆续了陆续会有"},{"start":1838.374,"end":1854.862,"text":"陸續大概會有4個燃氣機組包括大潭還有興達還有台中可以增加400多萬瓦的希望可以穩定供電 下一頁多元陸年的部分雖然到2026年的目標有一些挑戰"},{"start":1855.342,"end":1882.307,"text":"但是我们没有放弃还是持续来增加来进行24页的部分就是深度节能的部分那这个效果非常好就是说都已经达标而且可能超出目标那我们希望把2027年目标甚至一拉到206一度好最后接于经济部一定会跟产业站在一起也会跟百工百业作为百工百业最坚实的后盾那也希望各位委员给我们支持指教谢谢"},{"start":1883.356,"end":1910.949,"text":"好 我們謝謝經濟部長鞏主委鞏部長的說明謝謝那現在我們少一個好 我們現在進行詢答委員詢答前依慣例主席來宣告本會委員發言時間本會委員6分鐘非本會委員4分鐘我們上午10點半截止發言登記首先第一位要發言的是林黛樺委員 謝謝"},{"start":1916.09,"end":1927.216,"text":"林大汗委員這個發言前主席台再請教針對我們剛才議事錄的宣告有沒有問題沒有沒有那議事錄通過謝謝好有請部長請部長"},{"start":1936.032,"end":1964.381,"text":"好 部長本席將針對綠電與冷能經濟要跟您做個討論這兩個是守住台灣產業生命線而且是打造南方的新引擎好 我們從這個水庫設光電板卓院長說若無法處理水質問題就不開發所以也明確地停止這四大水庫的"},{"start":1964.981,"end":1983.036,"text":"光電的核准案好那這個蔡英文總統的一個想想論壇她就發言了她說這個人員政策她用了十張圖去講到我們的人員政策絕對要堅守"},{"start":1984.918,"end":2011.631,"text":"那所以到底這個水庫光電的嘎然而止是對於蔡英文總統之前規劃的人員政策的一個停滯還是檢討呢這個您要不要回應一下這個是因規著不遂的"},{"start":2012.276,"end":2032.033,"text":"核电的这个能源政策吗的绿能政策吗请回应报告委员院长的意思没有要停只是说民众假如有一些疑虑的话我们怎么样破除这个疑虑那尤其是这个水库设光电板那需不需要还平那这个部分也经过讨论"},{"start":2032.503,"end":2049.991,"text":"那我想這些疑慮只要去除的話我們還是會持續往前好 OK所以本席要講的綠能供應有關國際競爭力沒有綠電就沒有護國神山人員轉型它不是選項而是台灣製造業能否留在台灣"},{"start":2050.811,"end":2077.124,"text":"能否接國際訂單的存完的關鍵從綠電政策到冷能經濟我們必須同步推進不能偏廢而再生能源佔比現在已經到12%了而國際市場也明確將綠電比例列入供應鏈的門檻歐盟CBAN的機制更是實力所以很高興聽到部長這邊您對於蔡英文總統的"},{"start":2078.645,"end":2104.489,"text":"这个能源政策尤其是再生能源政策是确定延续的吗是 报告委员因为再生能源的发展对台湾来讲它不是一个道德上的问题或环境保护的问题它是产业发展生死的问题就像您讲的因为现在全世界要求许多要求它的供应链必须要用绿电没有错我们绿电不够的话就没有办法去支撑拿到这样的订单"},{"start":2105.73,"end":2118.3,"text":"所以本席也要求在環境保護無虞的情況之下綠電政策不僅不能打折扣而且政府必須即刻啟動綠電的契約保證機制確保關鍵產業取得優先綠電配額並鎖定綠電長約再者針對用電大戶"},{"start":2127.488,"end":2140.929,"text":"這個的執行情形本身也要求你政府要公開目前的執行率缺口的數據與補救方案可以嗎可以可以好再來我們來延伸另外一個議題冷能經濟"},{"start":2142.071,"end":2156.67,"text":"本期一直倡議國企國運國管國家隊終於在今年歷經了也感謝中油的積極跟我們交通部來規劃所以也確定了國企國運國管的國家隊"},{"start":2157.731,"end":2176.599,"text":"那這個呢也確實的讓台灣有自己的人員安全隊伍確保天然氣能夠到達電力不斷電產業不斷線好那本席要延伸這個議題高雄不僅能夠用電不僅要用氣發電還要把冷能變產業"},{"start":2178.14,"end":2200.32,"text":"所以當前高雄擁有全國最完整的天然氣接收站的體系從興達大林埔興達是現有的大林埔是規劃中的我也非常感謝中永董事長很重視這個區塊但是他的規他看到了這個人能經濟的釋放那我需要經濟部的大力"},{"start":2200.66,"end":2221.393,"text":"支持好而且在高雄是在冷能的潛在運用量會是全台第一在再氣化的過程天然氣必須從零下162度加熱回常溫這個過程會釋出大量的冷能相當於10萬噸的冷凍空調的能源目前的冷能回收率是不到"},{"start":2222.754,"end":2240.391,"text":"30%直接就排入海中這是浪費也是錯過的機會所以冷能經濟會是高雄下一個十年的戰略產業好我這邊具體幾項冷能可以再利用的產業也必須請部長在最後要回應本席是否"},{"start":2240.751,"end":2263.786,"text":"支持與否 所謂支持兩項政策的支持預算的支持第一個 冷能加物流 高雄發展冷鏈經濟走廊高雄擁有全台兩座主要的接收站 興達跟大林埔高雄目前同時有台灣的水產品跟農業加工出口的重要基地根據農業部的統計每年的水產品產值1400億因為冷鏈設備不足"},{"start":2269.17,"end":2291.303,"text":"耗損率高達25%到30%所以每年是虧損350億元的產值所以建議經濟部以冷能再利用這樣一個政策作為高雄新產業鏈的起點在永安接收站建置冷能回收與冷鏈示範區將在企劃的過程的冷能導入冷凍加工"},{"start":2293.084,"end":2308.352,"text":"倉儲物流運輸包裝零售等五大鏈結可以節省每年超過2億度的電這是中油這個算出來的每年也為企業節省20億元的人員支出創造200億的新產值"},{"start":2309.933,"end":2324.233,"text":"这不是节能而是创能人人不该排海而是该回收成经济这是第一个建议产业人人家算力发展低碳AI资料中心AI资料中心是高耗能的产业"},{"start":2325.234,"end":2339.944,"text":"根據貴部2025年的白皮書資料中心耗電是中的30%到40%是用在冷卻系統資料中心的30%到40%的耗電是在冷卻系統"},{"start":2340.624,"end":2369.516,"text":"以現在高雄的電力條件加上LNG冷能輔助冷卻可以節省35%的電力成本也就是每個AI資料中心至少每年減碳5000公噸相當於12座的中型工廠所以在這邊也建請經濟部跟國發費協調在亞灣區高雄的亞灣區跟蘭子園區二期建置冷能資料中心產業帶納入行政院的AI十大建設項目"},{"start":2370.796,"end":2398.546,"text":"將冷能轉化為算力能源打造全台第一個綠能AI城市在高雄這不僅是節能策略更是南北產業均衡的核心工程讓高雄成為全台第一個用冷氣養算力的城市第三個建議冷能家教育建構國際國運國管產學專班高雄擁有全台最完整的海事教育體系高雄科技大學"},{"start":2399.006,"end":2422.708,"text":"海洋科技大學跟海事學校與執訓中心建議經濟部跟教育部、交通部合作國企、國運、國管的產學專班從高職建立起由中油跟陽明海運等光谷航運公司共同建立海洋人員運用學院專責的培訓LNG船員、冷能技師、低溫物流專業人才"},{"start":2423.849,"end":2435.194,"text":"目前我國的LNG船隊本國級船員才34%所以未來本席直接具體建議要提升到60%的國級船員創造1500個計值值崗位這個計值的這個值缺確保人員運輸與國防戰備自主性本席這邊講的這個產學專班是針對"},{"start":2448.36,"end":2476.981,"text":"LNG船的這個產學專班最後我這邊的爬梳了再次的重整本席的具體要求能不能再利用一年內啟動高雄人人四番局的可行性評估跟財務規劃第二個兩年內在雅灣跟楠梓設置低碳資料中心專區第三個產學人才鏈設立海洋人員應用學院海洋人員運用其實他很多元的"},{"start":2477.822,"end":2495.534,"text":"那第二個是國際國運國管產學專班最後將人人經濟納入六大區域發展圈的核心計畫內來平衡南北投資帶動高雄新產業不管本席的第一項或第二項都是省電節電減碳"},{"start":2499.079,"end":2519.297,"text":"所以呢讓冷氣不只吹出來而是轉出來高雄的熱是太陽的熱高雄的冷是未來的競爭力冷能不只是降溫的技術更是城市競爭力升溫的力量所以我在這邊需要經濟部確認冷能在利用的政策方向"},{"start":2519.997,"end":2546.75,"text":"結合國企國運國管的產學合作高雄就能從人員輸出港變成創新的人員輸出港冷能不只是人員是經濟的二次轉型也是護國產業的一環本席建議經濟部在一年內提出完整的冷能再利用的整體規劃報告並將高雄列為全國冷能經濟的示範城市高雄的電"},{"start":2547.51,"end":2571.105,"text":"点亮全台高雄的气守护台湾这不只是高雄的产业升级更是台湾的人员安全部长请回应那我们请部长你将委员刚刚所说的详细说明那来这个不是详细说明而是先回答我一个问题就好是不是确认能再利用的政策方向部长请回应可以可以"},{"start":2572.206,"end":2593.302,"text":"好 那我要求在一年內提出人人在利用的整體規劃好 謝謝 以上謝謝林大華委員的詢談因為今天的委員登記眾多所以我要請 謝謝大家我們時間掌控一下 我們謝謝接下來請這個邱奕穎委員也是我們的召委 謝謝"},{"start":2597.887,"end":2601.637,"text":"谢谢主席我请一下部长我们再请龚部长"},{"start":2609.315,"end":2635.924,"text":"委員好 邱委員好部長好部長這個大阪世博上禮拜結束了嘛是那我想首先我要謝謝我們的召委這個安排我們快閃日本不到24小時之內我們這個走了兩萬多步去看大阪世博但是我想藉著今天的質詢的機會我覺得應該給我們國貿署跟外貿協會一個大大的掌聲跟大大的鼓勵"},{"start":2637.024,"end":2664.451,"text":"部長我知道您在我們離開之後隔天也特別到了士博去看趕在最後的階段去就是假日的時候對 所以我們的Tech World這個館其實頗受好評這個除了日本的地主國之外我們其實是在所有的場館裡頭是排名第五您看到這個照片我還特別把這個排隊人龍的照片都把它拍回來這個平均要入館入台灣館必須要等"},{"start":2665.311,"end":2678.923,"text":"三個小時以上那這個Tech World雖然它的字面上沒有任何台灣但是幾乎96%的民眾都知道Tech World管就是台灣管好 部長我現在要講就是說這個管"},{"start":2680.845,"end":2698.354,"text":"在日本這個展覽在日本這麼成功喔有沒有可能我們把內容的這個展出能夠到台灣回到台灣來來做巡展讓很多沒有辦法去到日本的台灣民眾也能夠充分的感受"},{"start":2698.854,"end":2717.653,"text":"甚至了解我們這一次的Tech World到底在世博展出什麼樣的東西我們到底如何運用台灣有的這個AI科技元素文化把它導入在所有的展覽裡頭我們的這三個生命劇場其實很多人看完都是熱淚盈眶"},{"start":2718.854,"end":2733.504,"text":"那當然我們在日本的時候其實包括昭偉我們也跟這個黃世芳董事長討論過是不是能夠把這個展出的內容回到台灣來巡展那我當然要具體的建議如果可以巡展的話"},{"start":2734.224,"end":2752.817,"text":"其實高雄已經準備好了我昨天也跟我們的市長在盤點高雄可能可以來提供的場域是不是這個部長你也能夠在這裡承諾一下有沒有可能把這個展整個展出的內容文化的元素回到台灣來做巡展"},{"start":2753.67,"end":2773.025,"text":"報告委員 我們的確是有這樣的考量所以我才會去試博一趟那行政院也有這樣的考量然後我們現在正在規劃就是說因為它尤其是第一個項目它高要9公尺所以說我們必須要選擇地點還有它的展期的時間"},{"start":2774.933,"end":2788.693,"text":"還有它的這個內容要怎麼樣來呈現所以的確是有這樣的規劃當然有很多委員還有民眾也有建議包括要不要配合燈會或是巡迴您剛剛提到的巡迴這個我們都會一併的考量"},{"start":2789.67,"end":2817.006,"text":"好 這個部長我覺得打鐵要趁熱是你應該還要在這個世博的這個熱潮當中很多人沒有辦法直接去到日本看所以我覺得打鐵趁熱讓大家趕快感受到台灣的這個軟實力台灣的這個AI的軟實力跟我們的文化軟實力到底在日本為什麼可以造成這麼大的轟動我覺得這一點這個規劃上面我可能要請部長你們加快"},{"start":2817.886,"end":2829.231,"text":"腳步好不好那我當然是具體爭取如果可以的話我希望第一個能夠展出的地方就能夠到高雄來我們高雄有最棒最棒的展場所以我們一定是全力配合"},{"start":2830.147,"end":2849.003,"text":"這點我請部長能夠納入考量是是是好來部長接下來要跟你討論一下這個無人機的產業發展這個行政院在10月16號核定了一個叫做無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫我們預估未來6年要投入442億那你的目標是2030年的產值要達到400億"},{"start":2857.165,"end":2880.879,"text":"部長我想您大概也非常的清楚除了這個是賴總統的五大信賴產業之一其實未來無人機的需求跟發展應該會遠遠超過您現在所盤點的這個需求量您現在說這個國內的部分盤點國防部的需求未來三年大概有10萬台的採購需求"},{"start":2881.559,"end":2910.925,"text":"我覺得你盤點的這個量應該是太少太少了吧無人機不只是用在國防的這個不對等的這個作戰裡頭其實它可以涵蓋的範圍是非常非常的廣包括我們這一次的雨災衛福部就首度啟用了無人機到這個孤島去送藥這個其實對於很多這個重大疾病或者是有一些患者住在偏遠的鄉鎮裡頭這是非常非常非常大的"},{"start":2912.214,"end":2929.98,"text":"的這個幫助那甚至其實無人機的投入在各大的產業裡頭過去我們也其實做了非常多只是它的應用並不那麼普及包括在農業上面我們的噴藥施肥播種甚至很多的農藥監測像這個你看到這個圖是美濃農會提供的我們用無人機去噴灑農藥"},{"start":2935.382,"end":2953.963,"text":"但是因為現在無人機的法令規範其實是有一點混亂 有一點複雜所以無人機做噴灑農藥的這樣的一個行為可是又被國防部拿來說要禁飛他就劃定了一個很大的禁飛區域所以造成這個無人機到底誰來管 誰可管 應該怎麼管"},{"start":2957.126,"end":2976.323,"text":"產生了非常大的問題那不只在農業上面在醫療上面包括我們最近大家一直在監測的艷澀湖的水到底會不會溢流什麼時候溢流水量到多少這個也都是在靠無人機來做監測所以部長我想要具體請教你們的442億的經費到底未來是要做"},{"start":2980.487,"end":2996.17,"text":"怎麼樣的預算分布那你只做研發嗎產能的部分只有到你講的那樣子嗎看看我們的這個漢翔漢翔現在去搶食500億的無人機的這樣的一個商機"},{"start":2997.071,"end":3015.221,"text":"那未來在整個無人機的產業聚落裡頭有沒有比較更完整一點的規劃除了你講到在嘉義做這個AI的研發中心以外其實結合嘉義台南沙崙中科院甚至漢翔甚至在我們整個高雄地區能不能在"},{"start":3017.226,"end":3032.819,"text":"在高屏家的這個地方形成一個所謂的南部無人機產業走廊就整體的我們對無人機的這個產業規劃上面部長您能不能簡單說明一下無人機的發展是全台灣的發展"},{"start":3034.14,"end":3059.251,"text":"只是說剛開始的時候在民雄地區它有一個非控的場域可以做示範性的一些試驗但是並不表示說只有在那邊可以做無人機不是這個意思我當然知道我的意思是說但是你還是有一個產業聚落的形成或者是說您現在對於這樣的業者不管他是研發或者是產製你的442億是要具體要做哪些東西我現在看起來你442億是只做研發嗎"},{"start":3060.811,"end":3077.082,"text":"442亿除了有一部分就刚刚提到的就是说我们各部会有盘点的大概有要5万多台的这个需求嘛这是你部会里头的需求国防部需要的量是4万多部将近5万部就是5万加5万嘛"},{"start":3077.702,"end":3093.305,"text":"那有這樣5萬總共10萬部的所以你講的10萬台的需求是政府的部門但是不包含民間不包含民間的需求嘛所以你整體那你整體的產能我們的產能還包括可能要出口就是我們現在"},{"start":3094.346,"end":3120.145,"text":"组成了这个联盟跟国外对接现在也有一些陆续的订单你看像汉祥他要去抢500亿的无人机的商机他其实是要到美国去嘛到欧洲去嘛那这个部分政府有强力的支持他吗或者是说我们有在政策上面在法令上面我们做怎么样更具体的这些政策支持呢因为我们"},{"start":3121.325,"end":3146.504,"text":"我们跟民间已经有应该是二十几家二十五家的这个民间两百五十家已经组成了这个联盟这个联盟就跟国外不管是供应链的合作也好或是订单的这个掌握也好那就已经开始有滚动式的往前推进了所以我们现在大家会认为说我们好像只能做零组件不是这样的我们已经可以在整个这个系统性已经完成了所以拿到"},{"start":3146.997,"end":3151.586,"text":"波蘭的訂單 大概差不多10億台幣3200萬美元類似這樣的訂單那美國的部分 那個Skydio"},{"start":3158.513,"end":3177.185,"text":"我們也拿到它的訂單了有些廠商已經拿到它的訂單它主要是在做商用甚至於說是景銷而用雖然不是軍事用途但是景銷用這個就是剛剛提到的我們在實際的用法上是實際有這樣的訂單有這樣的成果了已經慢慢的開始起來了"},{"start":3178.666,"end":3193.163,"text":"這個部長我想時間到我就不再用太多時間但是我覺得可能未來在所謂的無人機的產業發展上面其實我比較期待有沒有可能未來我們來制定一個所謂的無人載具產業基本法或者是無人載具的產業發展法"},{"start":3194.645,"end":3222.266,"text":"我覺得這個是未來很重要的不管是不對等的作戰不管是在商用不管是在民間使用我覺得無人機的這個產業它應該是蓬勃發展那很多的相關的管理辦法現在分散在各地尤其是民航法的管制其實是非常相對嚴格包括國防部對於無人機怎麼飛飛的高度是多少國防部都會劃定一個所謂的禁飛範圍裡頭"},{"start":3223.607,"end":3250.263,"text":"那這個對於整個不管是無人機的使用或者是發展其實都產生非常大的漢格所以我期待可能這個可能經濟部是不是要跟國發會或者是跟其他的部會來共同討論一下對於無人載具的產業發展我們應該要制定一個通法然後呢對於相關的這些法令的鬆綁其實也應該要來一併做考量喔好不好"},{"start":3250.748,"end":3268.46,"text":"好的 因為我們現在已經有一個無人載具的有點像示範砂輪的一些條例那我想用那個基礎把它upgrade到發展條例也好你們那個示範條例是不是可以給本席一下好不好好 謝謝示範條例給邱委員 謝謝接下來我們請陳廷飛委員請做詢問"},{"start":3281.63,"end":3284.573,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長我們再請龔部長"},{"start":3292.259,"end":3315.076,"text":"部长我今天要跟你讨论的议题是在当时候任性预算还没过之前未用同样的议题跟我们行政院院长有就教过有讨论过也就是说我们要怎么用我们的任性特别预算来协助我们重要的产业来度过难关其实部长"},{"start":3316.058,"end":3339.105,"text":"我們這一次重要的是關稅我們能不能讓大家有競爭力也就是說當我們受影響的產業我們的對手他的暫定稅率到底是多少如果他的稅率都比我們高那基本上我們還保有我們的競爭力如果我們的"},{"start":3340.605,"end":3359.855,"text":"暫定稅率是比我們對手還要高的話那當然我們的競爭力就會萎縮所以我們必須把韌性特別預算一定要好好的把這些產業別做一些盤整比如說工具機"},{"start":3361.016,"end":3379.106,"text":"工具機台灣的稅率是20再堆加然後我們主要競爭對手是德國 日本 韓國他們的佔領稅率是15%然後手工具也是一樣我們的競爭對手跟我們差不多"},{"start":3380.146,"end":3395.244,"text":"水滸金越南跟我們的競爭對手我們的稅率是差不多重機重電重電的部分我們的對手是歐盟他的暫定稅率是比我們還低"},{"start":3396.448,"end":3417.347,"text":"好 我們20% 他們15%塑膠當然我們的對手是墨西哥那麼他們是25%我們剛好比他們少一點點我會提出這個就是說我們要實質下去盤整我們要怎麼幫他也就是我們要先讓他"},{"start":3418.7,"end":3447.531,"text":"有同等的競爭力是的對不對就是說我們比不過人家的競爭力的部分關稅的部分我們要先把這個Gap先給他安心也就是一個標準比如說他受衝擊的可能是5%的關稅我們怎麼利用我們這些特別預算一些科目他需求的科目把它補足這個Gap那麼他就會安心"},{"start":3448.871,"end":3461.139,"text":"我覺得我們要有一個標準然後有一個堆疊有一個談論的空間這樣子我們在所謂的任性特別預算才能夠實質發揮作用部長你認為呢是那我們現在大概是利用"},{"start":3468.516,"end":3490.596,"text":"因为没有办法直接就用这个关税补贴但是我们用升级转型比如说升级转型你太旧换新机器设备我们就有补助最高是40%然后还有你贷款贷款的部分我们利息补贴给你但是部长有说他现在未必可以他的机器太旧换新了"},{"start":3492.393,"end":3509.238,"text":"他也可以加裝一些升級轉型的智慧化比如說AI相關的軟體設備可是當他要裝設這些緩不濟急耶緩不濟急耶另外就是我們還有訂單上的一些協助比如說他要去參展我們給予補助而且金額加大"},{"start":3511.217,"end":3528.168,"text":"類似這樣的部長 你知道你講這些其實會讓人家感覺有點落差因為我們現在一定要給他先有競爭力去拼搏對不對可是你所說的這些是在後續的所以貸款才是最重要的"},{"start":3532.168,"end":3543.151,"text":"是 贷款也是有贷款才是最重要可是你知道吗信用保证跟利息补助可是贷款银行通常都会要求要看你的订单"},{"start":3545.128,"end":3564.796,"text":"我的訂單都受到影響了你還要看我的訂單所以為什麼我們要編這個差不多將近100億的這個去爭取訂單除了美國的訂單之外我們額外的訂單也要去爭取好啊問題是這些訂單要怎麼給他們有信心說我可以爭取到這個訂單"},{"start":3569.885,"end":3582.174,"text":"所以就是說因為如果我們出去跟人家搶訂單的話單純只是價格如果遇到是東南亞跟中國的話的確是比較困難但是台灣的品質是不錯的"},{"start":3583.401,"end":3610.553,"text":"差異化能力也很強你知道嗎我很感動的是很多廠商都跟我講你只要讓我有同等的競爭力我們就對東西輸了因為我們的競爭一定會出事我們的競爭就是這個競爭力因為光這個關稅差在5%或是%差在3%這個部分他們的競爭力光開出來的單價就沒辦法去取得訂單了"},{"start":3612.486,"end":3633.339,"text":"你懂吗你要了解现在厂商他们内心的想法没错所以我还说你到底任性特别预算可以给他们多少的期待你们汉布隆东开了很多你看我们有460亿的支持产业可是我看得到吃得到吗"},{"start":3634.229,"end":3650.406,"text":"一定可以啊我们现在申请的案件已经有1200多件是啊可是1200多件是不是真的可以让他们在这一次关税有办法拿到一个同等的竞争力这才是最重要的"},{"start":3651.167,"end":3672.469,"text":"部長所以我希望你們去盤點的是不是只看到說你看我現在有1200多家來申請可是你要去了解這1200多家是因為沒辦法去縫你們這個支持產業的需求因為我沒辦法因為你通過了我去縫你這個需求可是這個需求真正可以讓我"},{"start":3673.65,"end":3700.686,"text":"跟人家有競爭力可以去跟人家徵訂單的一個條件嗎對 所以鮑委員所以我們為什麼會成立了這個北中南東的這個輔導團主動的去了解他們企業需要我們真正的協助是在哪一個地方所以部長 這才是重要也就是說你要去了解他們真的受到影響的問題是什麼"},{"start":3703.43,"end":3729.424,"text":"沒錯你現在460億支持產業很清楚寫在這裡那有需要的人來爭取可是爭取完之後他真的是有這樣的一個天平可以去跟人家競爭嗎這才是我們在這一次任性特別預算我們的重點我們要給我們的產業是有一個同等競爭力去跟人家競爭"},{"start":3730.825,"end":3745.787,"text":"我們的條件一定比人家好我們的給人家的信心指數也一定比人家高可是當我在不同的一個關稅的平台當中我說話就小聲啊"},{"start":3747.86,"end":3773.866,"text":"我講話就小聲啊可是當我能夠在政府支持我有同等的競爭力我就不一樣了所以我才在講你當這個3%的gap 5%的gap這個部分你怎麼利用我們的輔導團去協助他們這才是重要我的標準已經定在這裡嘛我依照我的競爭對手"},{"start":3776.087,"end":3801.693,"text":"的一個關稅跟我們台灣的關稅差在哪裡我不是叫你直接補貼他5%不可能嘛可是你可以用我們現在的一些知識產業的一些狀況去協助他盤點之後去補足這個GAP一個標準甚至在我們金融知識的部分給予更多的力量當我們政府輔導團給他一個保證"},{"start":3806.844,"end":3823.444,"text":"銀行都比較趕嘛啊可以啊可以啊對不對沒有問題啊不然銀行根本不趕嘛是銀行那個時間就要看你的訂單我們那個輔導團啊我就是沒訂單我不是要來請請出政府的合作我們輔導團會把我們的那個信保機制同仁一併的加進去好這個很重要"},{"start":3824.125,"end":3852.461,"text":"所以部长我们关心的是当我们预算过了之后我们是不是真正的可以协助到这些中小企业跟传统产业这个也是我们最关心的这才是重要所以我们希望的是有一个比较直接的盘点有一个比较直接的协助而且有直接的让他们有感的方向部长这个再拜托谢谢"},{"start":3858.975,"end":3859.237,"text":"我們現在請張祺凱委員質詢"},{"start":3891.924,"end":3913.513,"text":"謝謝 請阿滾部長好 部長張委員好 滾部長奈清德總統在4天前就是10月18號他在為小水利發電產業發展論壇的時候 自此他講到說"},{"start":3917.262,"end":3943.149,"text":"政府已經在2022年公布的2050年淨零排放政策路徑藍圖他已經提出了包括小水利他說作為前瞻能源等12項關鍵戰略在2030年之前要投入9000億結果這段時間很多專家學者到我辦公室來工"},{"start":3944.301,"end":3956.283,"text":"有嗎這個你們經濟部核定的前瞻能言12項關鍵戰略2025年淨零排碳的這個路徑難途有包括小水利嗎"},{"start":3958.646,"end":3981.297,"text":"多元的多元的多元的那個能源開發其中有一項是小水利沒有錯這也是很多委員有關心的希望的你在你在你的12項關鍵戰略這個每一個都是核定本都是你經濟部核定的就是在前瞻能源這個第三項他前瞻能源裡面有很多包括氫能前瞻能源來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":3986.039,"end":4015.066,"text":"我有印你們拿給我看這前瞻能源第三項裡面哪一個有講到小水利你們講到三項來來來第一項是風電跟光電對不對第二項是氫能嘛第三個就是部長你現在講的前瞻能源對它是滾動式的只要有新的包括地熱也好或是其他的能源甚至於是波浪的能源都涵蓋在這個所謂的前瞻能源裡面這是剛剛印下來的有嗎你的滾動你有去改嗎"},{"start":4016.639,"end":4045.603,"text":"這裡面牽扯到兩個很嚴重啦你現在給我看第三個你剛講的來 部長你講的第三個是什麼前瞻啦前瞻能源它裡面講的是什麼地熱發電生殖能跟海洋能嘛對你對著你眼睛看到看到小水電小水電沒有啦 水動自衛檢查所以有機會我們都會加入到目前來 你給我看在哪裡這裡面牽扯一個啦如果有機會我們就把它加入聽我講這裡面牽扯到兩個很嚴重的第一個總統不能夠信口開河你沒有的東西"},{"start":4047.383,"end":4063.768,"text":"你去論壇你對著講所以專家寫者很認真他們就來問我辦公室說委員我們找了老半天找不到找不到小水利那不會覺得總統為什麼他都沒有清楚的看清楚內容我還特別把這個帶來喔對不對到目前都沒有這不就變成個信口開河的總統你要這樣下去就變總統變來爾校長對不對"},{"start":4073.464,"end":4083.876,"text":"小水利是有一個已經公布了一個短售價格是支持而且鼓勵的我請那個署長講一下現在在講的是現在講的是總統在這個論壇講他在2050年的淨零排碳政策藍圖還有12項的淨零關鍵戰略裡面"},{"start":4091.224,"end":4104.462,"text":"找不到小水利嘛結果總統去論壇裡面講這不是變成信國開河嗎不是這樣子的小水利本來就是我們水利發電其中的在這裡面在總統講的這裡面有沒有你放給我看嘛有小水利的有嗎"},{"start":4105.348,"end":4119.287,"text":"消血力本來就在我們政府的政策裡面總統說在慶齡十二項關鍵戰略裡面有嗎這個是你們GC2的核定版就是在前瞻能源裡面前瞻能源包括非常多"},{"start":4121.789,"end":4148.16,"text":"我印了我印了你剛剛你講的那個你等一下翻出來任何一個小水利的字給我你兩個眼睛可以看得到不是前瞻能源他是一個概括性的一個說法只要是前瞻的他屬於能源的事實上滾動式的檢查都會納在裡面而且經濟部基本上也對小水利有提供的短壽價格已經列出來了你政府的功能特別經濟部這每一個都是你的核定說光是第一項風電跟光電"},{"start":4150.367,"end":4154.009,"text":"你光是第一項12個大項裡面的第一項就有27頁喔你講的第三項裡面"},{"start":4160.149,"end":4180.354,"text":"連一個字小水利都沒有你先不要硬拗了我現在只要提醒你總統講話不能夠信口開河要不然就變萊爾校長你們第二個他已經講了你們趕快跟上去把小水利這個計畫把它做好我今天看你的計畫我們會做好那個部長我今天看你的施政報告你的這個業務報告講小水利也只有六行四啊"},{"start":4181.397,"end":4206.363,"text":"你們趕快跟上去啦好不好一個請總統不要信口開河第二個他沒有信口開河他也知道小水利是我們重要的能源政策27月你要推動光電你的目標是什麼你的短期中長期的計畫是什麼小水利後來績效是什麼這個每一項都有耶沒有計畫現在不是信口開河說了就說我要推小水利這個東西完全一個字都沒有好不好這是一個好來"},{"start":4208.117,"end":4234.811,"text":"第二個我們來談一下最近光電板出了很多的問題為了光電板要回收能源署回應說啊 獲蓄每年已經要的追繳已經達到九成了也在去年修罰最高可以開罰150萬 目前條例等待三讀這個跟剛剛那個一樣 我也給他找幾碼"},{"start":4237.446,"end":4262.263,"text":"你們的法案在哪裡 條例在哪裡報告委員 這個所謂事成沒有繳納的 我們都去吹繳了那如果時間到的話 我們就會移送強制執行那所以這個比例其實市長 我在問你 你跟我們說你跟全國民眾跟立法院說你的修法 你甩鍋給立法院啊是我說我查不到你的東西 你的條例在哪裡啦你們有這個條例嗎有沒有"},{"start":4265.929,"end":4283.814,"text":"這個原來就是那個再生能源發展條例裡面他可以做處罰但是他當時沒有特別對吹角他沒有罰則嘛 對不對所以你要修法嘛你這個寫的意思就是說你去修法送到立法院躺在立法院立法院等待三讀我給所有專家寫者跟我的辦公室去找"},{"start":4284.574,"end":4305.532,"text":"阿你就沒修法你怎麼可以這樣講他不是修法你這不是嫁禍跟甩鍋給立法院而且這嚴重傷害你經濟部的公信力欸報告好報告委員他那個可能我們用的文字他是修那個辦法特別把這一個行為納入那不是修辦法辦法要送到立法院刪讀嗎修讀法辦法要送到立法院刪讀嗎你講的條例在哪裡啦你送到立法院的條例在哪裡有嗎"},{"start":4310.634,"end":4333.487,"text":"你去把它弄清楚對我們來修正用語是修辦法那你真的有條例的話也趕快送來不要說你已經送到立法院來這不要變成真也修假話甩鍋給立法院嗎委員我們看一下你這個文字是哪裡來的因為他這個文字用的這個是我看是一個新聞發布我在想他用的文字可能不是精準我們的文字"},{"start":4335.529,"end":4362.988,"text":"這是公視的報導這個不是只有這是公視的報導所以這是一個新聞報導我看它這裡面的文字第一個我明確知道不對的就是有四層餵角絕對沒有但是有餵角的我們都已經吹角了另外我們要修的是管理的辦法也不是母法所以我是覺得這一則新聞事實上可能不是不是正確的這個是新聞報導是有畫面的你打臉是你的能言術"},{"start":4364.301,"end":4391.886,"text":"報告我們沒有這種這個不是一個文字這是公視的報導你打臉是記者人員署沒關係我們在把它查清楚更重要的要解決問題第二個不要當初我們有發新聞稿的話我們會有新聞稿的不要甩鍋不要甩鍋給那個立法院更重要你是個公信力的經濟部不要變成造謠的經濟部來好我們來看一下柏定你13號你有吹哨者來檢舉說光電板的這個"},{"start":4395.578,"end":4419.225,"text":"在戰事區台湯土地上面沒有你連收三次喔我說你目前處理好嗎你說處理好啊我說是在戰事區喔因為卻要講得清清楚楚喔你還回答我說清走的我說你是戰事上面還清走的你還說第三次講說清走的我去看來我給你看來我給你看結果很可惡的是你在16號你還發了新聞稿誤導民眾來我給你看真正的真相是什麼來"},{"start":4422.251,"end":4448.707,"text":"這個就是荷包魚 滯洪指定名台塘戰事區勒眼睛應該沒有業障那麼重吧看得到上面是什麼吧那個是堆滿那個浮板這個 這個我們來確認一下這個應該已經清理完畢了但是我們知道我們在9月在你發新聞稿的當天16號還在那裡啊是 我們這樣子我們在9月15不要硬拗啦 不要硬拗我都已經去看過了來 我再給你看後面的來 哥哥來"},{"start":4451.759,"end":4477.716,"text":"18號跟19號來我現在跟你講更重要的不是只有台塘那個站制區沒有清完我去18號跟19號我在新溫的自風池看到什麼路口旁邊馬路上喔馬路旁邊你就看得到了還有破碎的光電板我拿給大家看有沒有我手上抓到那個是破碎的光電板然後呢在那個自風池的上面漂浮的浮板像小船一樣"},{"start":4479.345,"end":4493.772,"text":"一二十隻小船在那邊飄你除非你故意看不到或者像王世堅講的睜眼收瞎話沒出息連滾帶爬才會連這個東西都看不到這個委員你不了解齁你這個照片用過好多次齁我說明一下"},{"start":4494.432,"end":4513.926,"text":"好多次 我在這裡問你對不對你也承認這次問題什麼叫好多次不要一直亂講話好不好市長精準的講因為我們9月7號已經清理完畢但是後來因為有雨水沖刷或有一些漂流出來的我們要求業者他還要定期循環去減蝕那減蝕之後他會先把它堆置起來"},{"start":4514.426,"end":4529.612,"text":"那至於上面有浮板好幾片那麼大一個你看它像小船一樣那是很重的你隨便飄一下十幾片的這個浮板全部都飄出來喔那個是它未來要重新你這個完全不合邏輯這硬拗了捏那是定位點因為它未來要重新那你是怎麼當初去選沒選對了"},{"start":4531.093,"end":4552.672,"text":"那麼大一個東西你說是隨時又漂出來是不是過幾天又漂一二十隻小船出來照片裡面水上的那個是葉子的定位點因為它未來要重新復原的時候它必須要把它留幾個地方再定位它這樣子未來施工的時候可以不必重新定位市長最重要的經濟部是一個講話很有公信力的部會"},{"start":4554.113,"end":4579.158,"text":"結果你一湊再湊你不只在這邊講了跟事實不一樣的然後我看的都是有圖有真相 你看我是特別跑去現場看喔我還特別在19號為什麼用了那張報紙國民黨黨主席18號寫出來黨主席鄭麗文19號我是想去看你看那個地面上整片的光電板光電模組整片在那邊自模組上面是有平板右邊來來來我跟你們講右下角這是什麼"},{"start":4581.278,"end":4602.823,"text":"阿陸續雨水沖刷有露出來所以我們每天都會派這個業者去巡檢如果有發現他們就會把它收起來暫時堆置在旁邊所以你就不要發新聞稿說什麼你已經清完嘛如果這麼容易對不對阿光電板這麼脆弱一下沖刷就會跑出來但是因為它會沖刷或是水位變化有的時候它會不斷的我們會不斷的去巡檢它部長我堅持要跟你講齁"},{"start":4603.723,"end":4615.35,"text":"我今天也沒有要你道歉我現在要講一個很重要政府是有公信力的當民眾不是 我跟你講喔最近喔 最近委員如果再問問題詢 那你們聽一下才有辦法回答你不要兩個都講這樣子大家不要聽誰的 好嗎大家互相尊重 來 請繼續"},{"start":4628.254,"end":4653.528,"text":"部長我今天沒有要你道歉我今天講的是政府的公信力我說你不要讓民眾一般的媒體去採訪發現的問題聯合報去追蹤了90天他說在10月初到了10月初的時候第90天還有很多地方就是向旗桿去看的這個我是在19號18號又去看又是一堆問題那一般的嘉義的民眾或者是全國民眾你只要這段時間經過新穩定的光電池這個制風池"},{"start":4657.096,"end":4685.735,"text":"你經過新莊了來我再給你看一個畫面下一個你們嘉義縣政府你們發新聞稿16號對不對17號嘉義縣政府還去打臉你們還開牌我們可以講我今天不是要你道歉我現在是說第一個我們那個博定今天最重要的不要睜眼收下讓民眾因為民眾會覺得說我過去看我看都有看到那是經濟部那因為時間的關係我們先到了啦我現在要兩個東西啦第一個"},{"start":4686.937,"end":4704.197,"text":"確定去把它清除完畢好不好清了我們會再清嘛剛剛署長第一個要求一定要把它清乾淨第二個你的新聞稿出現問題趕快去更正我們會持續清你說你清完了嘛第三個禮拜給我一份報告為什麼民眾都看到有問題為什麼你一直講說清完好不好"},{"start":4705.978,"end":4727.749,"text":"確定不要再污染不要再污染我們台灣的這個土地好不好謝謝那那個部長因為委員大家都關心我知道其實大家都希望社會不要有疑慮對所以呢如果你的媒體認為你是你認為是有誤的你們要想辦法去理清楚要要要這才是我們尋答最重要的重點謝謝謝謝"},{"start":4734.278,"end":4758.157,"text":"好 接下來我們請鄭振權委員請鄭振權委員請坐群打 謝謝謝主席我想先請一下經濟部工部長我們再請工部長還有我們能源署的理事長能源署是"},{"start":4759.924,"end":4778.451,"text":"蔣委員好部長好我在想說就是台灣的能源其實確實是大家都關心產業界關心 民眾都關心經常在講說從108年台灣AI行動計畫開始發展之後其實算力就變成大家生活當中很重要的部分包括"},{"start":4780.592,"end":4800.42,"text":"產業 特別的關心所以我們常常在講說 算力就是國力可是問題是 算力它依賴很大的一個能源所以電力也是國力我想這兩句話 我想部長應該都不會反對啦那那個 因為主任長跟賴總統 他們目前也都很明確的說就是"},{"start":4801.841,"end":4827.248,"text":"不排除新核能這件事情對不對那我想說因為我們現在台灣已經沒有核能了已經進入一個無核能的一個狀態那我想關心一下SMR這個部分那目前核安會明年是有1億的預算未來4年有8億啦只有8億那我在想說我們之前我問過"},{"start":4828.428,"end":4846.765,"text":"河安會這邊的時候他提到說這是能源政策的問題推到經濟部這邊來所以我想藉這個機會來請教一下部長我們在這個SMR的能源賽道當中怎麼樣子可以不掉隊可以能夠持續站在全球一個比較領先的地位可不可以請部長回答一下"},{"start":4848.459,"end":4867.19,"text":"邦安委員第一個就是說我們還是會持續國際性它現在的發展狀態這個我們還是持續觀察那河岸衛的部分他們是有一些研究在研究這個方面就目前僅是一個研究就是中國大陸2026年SMR要商轉"},{"start":4869.012,"end":4891.054,"text":"韓國2030年預計要商轉所以說我就在這個部分當中說台灣就是明年才有一億台幣的預算今年韓國就投入一億美元的一個資金在這個部分那我們怎麼樣在這個部分不要掉隊太多"},{"start":4892.435,"end":4909.319,"text":"我今天的關心點在這個地方因為現在它的這個SMR它的運作方式採用的材料等等的一些情況事實上有很大的不容冷卻方式也有很多的不同我們現在在密切觀察說什麼樣的型態比較適合台灣"},{"start":4911.68,"end":4933.886,"text":"這個部分因為他說還在一個很出奇的狀態因為本席是覺得說台灣這部分感覺走得不夠快我問何安慧 何安慧把這問題推到經濟部這邊所以我希望經濟部這邊能夠有一個更積極的一個作為那這個部分你之後可以再跟本辦公室提出一個我們經濟部目前針對這個部分怎麼樣的去做一個規劃跟發展的一個進程好不好"},{"start":4934.306,"end":4940.83,"text":"那我接下來想請教一下那個李署長因為最近有一個案子就是針對那個之前跟"},{"start":4944.62,"end":4970.081,"text":"漁民的一個衝突啦那你出來做協調然後結果法院後來就在過程當中提到說你要那個廠商這邊service一下那這個字眼的時候讓大家會有很多的聯想然後就覺得說好像當時的能源局副局長你現在能源署的署長出來喬事針對這個部分你可不可以具體做一個說明跟澄清"},{"start":4970.581,"end":4996.586,"text":"首先那是因為民眾抗爭所以雲林縣政府希望我們是中央目的世界主管機關去協調這件事那整個會議是公開的當時除了漁會縣政府議長的代表那麼縣議員還有這個漁權會漁會都在所以當時是一個非常多人公開的會議那我們是主管機關是有協調責任而且協調的成果是"},{"start":4997.166,"end":5007.614,"text":"成功的後來雙方也以這個協調去那我為什麼會在這個地方特別提這個問題就你知道有一個簡單的澄清就是我只是要特別講說說實話你出來做這個協調喬試著這個狀態來講說坦白說就很像民意代表在做的事情然後能夠解決問題就是好事啦我基本上態度是這樣子可是我要特別講的一個狀態是說現在整個綠能有很多一個亂象包括我們剛剛"},{"start":5023.386,"end":5035.998,"text":"他也問到了很多相關的部分光電的問題風電的問題都會有很多的亂象可是我覺得亂象裡面有一個很大的一個癥結點就是因為政府把很多要跟地方溝通的問題都丟給了開發商去做"},{"start":5039.656,"end":5060.495,"text":"那這當中就會出現很多很多的問題之前在郭部長在的時候呢我跟他溝通過這個事情那他當時為了要解決這樣子的一個可能產生的糾紛他把法務部拉到一個溝通平台當中來那這是一個點可是我要特別講的狀態就是說如果說我們現在把這問題都丟給開放去做這種問題會層出不窮"},{"start":5062.676,"end":5087.383,"text":"就是署長要不斷的出來扮演這種協調者的角色不斷要講說要開發商相關的爭議的對象我覺得這都不是一個好事情那我覺得能源署經濟部這邊是整個能源的主管機關我們在發展綠能過程當中的時候是不是能夠把這些溝通的動作先做好到時候要怎麼樣的去回饋變成之後招商當中的一個部分的條件"},{"start":5088.57,"end":5108.417,"text":"是不是有可能朝這方面去做避免之後不斷的產生各種的一個糾紛跟衝突是 我們會照這個原則事實上這個案開發案也是先跟漁民溝通好了那他是之前的溝通的時候呢法院的判決他有特別講出來因為都只跟漁會講可是漁會這邊就用了一個"},{"start":5110.834,"end":5139.731,"text":"便宜形式的做法的時候讓真正在做捕撈會受到影響的漁民沒有太大的發言權而用一些比方說陸地漁溫的一個漁民大量的狀態去稀釋這狀態所以這是溝通當中的一個技術性的問題那我希望就是能源署這邊你剛剛也承諾要從這個方向去做我們希望能夠把這溝通的部分成本溝通好變成以後開發商在招標當中的一個成本"},{"start":5140.211,"end":5165.052,"text":"就不會產生後續這麼多的一個糾紛了解 謝謝委員那他這個案事實上我們是取得漁會的同意有溝通好不過漁會裡面有不同意見的人那這些人事實上是在漁會裡面不同意見人但是整個代表漁會的整個單位是同意的那這個部分我們希望說能源署這邊經濟部這邊能夠把這個部分做得更好因為我們接下來還有很多那個綠能計畫"},{"start":5166.633,"end":5193.144,"text":"那個郭部長雖然他一直講說台灣不缺能源可是絕對缺綠能這個部分所以我們接下來要怎麼把這綠能發展起來也是一個很重要的部分那我最後還有一個問題我想請教一下那個工部長因為昨天就是國發會的主委他在針對那個國發會業務報告當中的時候他直接提到了就是矽光子的產業要落腳在高雄"},{"start":5194.244,"end":5201.552,"text":"那經濟部是這矽光的產業的一個主管的機關確定已經有這樣子的一個政策出來了嗎"},{"start":5203.202,"end":5224.648,"text":"因為它是有一個計畫這個計畫主要外站我想媒體也有講主要是AMD的一個計畫那這個計畫是申請了我們Aplus計畫那這個計畫會落腳因為它的這個研發的據點那個計畫AMD的計畫落腳在高雄還是整個矽光的產業要落腳在高雄"},{"start":5225.228,"end":5250.116,"text":"因為矽光石它是會support的這個高階的這個封裝嘛那所有的半導體很多它都會用到所以不會只有一個地方OK那因為本席就特別要特別講說因為我如果聽到整個矽光產業要整個落腳在高雄我就會有點擔心因為目前矽光石這部分基本上就是光電跟半導體這邊要結合相關的一些技術那目前半導體跟光電很多的"},{"start":5250.556,"end":5271.996,"text":"重要的技術跟矽光子的產業都在北部在新竹在新北這個地方所以我們擔心如果說整個矽光子的產業要落腳在高雄的部分的時候會不會造成產業的一個產業鏈的一個當被一個撕裂的部分那如果部長現在講說只是一個AMD的計畫在高雄的時候那很多北部的矽光子產業還是繼續在走應該是這樣的狀態嗎"},{"start":5274.258,"end":5290.895,"text":"当然因为它现在已经跨到产业可以开始可能快再过几年就会有商转的这个机会了所以很多的计划已经在很多的这个企业界在做研发也好或者是商业化的一些过程了"},{"start":5291.67,"end":5320.503,"text":"OK 因為現在矽光的主要幾個企業包括光環、波羅威其實都在新竹啦那那個比方說創威在新北其實都還是在北部這部分所以我們希望說這整個矽光的產業當中不是說整個經濟部就是要基於什麼產業的南北平衡怎麼樣狀態就硬要把一個產業本來在北部有的拉到南部去不是這樣的狀態嘛對不對不是 AMD 因為他希望在高雄我們就支持他理解那可以把這個發展起來也非常好 對"},{"start":5321.604,"end":5334.28,"text":"如果有的計畫他希望在新竹我們當然也會支持OK那針對矽光子相關產業的時候你再給本席一個更詳細的資料好不好好謝謝好非常感謝謝謝鄭振銓委員謝謝謝謝部長我們接下來鄭天才委員請做詢答"},{"start":5355.798,"end":5380.449,"text":"主席 各位委員 有請部長我們再請龔部長趙委員好部長好這個我再次在談這個光復鄉馬台安溪這個潰壩造成的非常大的一個傷亡跟家戶的損失"},{"start":5382.814,"end":5401.901,"text":"這個土堤 要謝謝水利署花了將近10天這個2680公尺的土堤完成了請教一下 這樣的一個土堤第一個 這個大概花了多少錢"},{"start":5404.099,"end":5424.455,"text":"再提供再提供數字好了報告委員這個土題是一個臨時性的土題我知道那目前這個錢不多大概是幾千萬大概幾千萬因為它不是一個我知道整體附件是這樣的土題這個到底可以防範"},{"start":5427.059,"end":5456.5,"text":"多大的好謝謝委員這個土堤因為有3加1的防腐就是我們有頂塊太空包跟鋼網還有這個5米高度所以整體而已我們評估大概是可以防範大概是1000每秒立方米的量大概是原來馬太安溪設計的一半的流量以一般來講每天下200毫米的豪雨等級是可以防範的好如果是"},{"start":5457.041,"end":5464.88,"text":"如果在9月23号以前有这个土体的话9月23号发生这个溃坝"},{"start":5466.441,"end":5494.981,"text":"這個能不能擋住到不容易我們的永久堤防比這個土堤更加的堅固很多我們當初的防範的能力是超過2040的能力大概是500或600毫米每一天的等級那這個只有200毫米這個是一個臨時堆填的所以是跟原來那個堤防是不能比的我當然 我知道原來的堤防因為我有實際去看了看了最起碼我去了六次"},{"start":5496.297,"end":5524.789,"text":"原來的堤防並沒有被沖毀原來的堤防沒有被沖毀是這個堤防是好的只不過是水沖過來之後是旁邊的靠那個堤外面到那邊的這個有一些土石北巴委員2860公尺堤防從光復一號二號三號"},{"start":5525.885,"end":5550.704,"text":"在靠近光復那一區的 全部都沖毀掉了有沖毀掉 全部都毀掉了所以這個部分還是沒有辦法擋住嘛 對不對是 確定未來還是要繼續這個 是 報告委員我們已經有規劃一個中長期的做法非常謝謝委員指導你們的簡報我都有看到好 那我接下來"},{"start":5555.325,"end":5568.718,"text":"這個是馬太安溪災前60天的一個彭新浪教授所拍攝的當時的水流有很多是在往光復鄉這個地區我們看這是10月10號的拍攝"},{"start":5578.11,"end":5606.578,"text":"你們都挖了這個蘇郡了是全部大 絕大部分都集中在中間了是中間現在我們要去思考的這個直接就往光復鄉的東復村的阿頭莫部落阿頭莫部落會有這樣的一個實際的情形"},{"start":5607.594,"end":5628.065,"text":"然後我們看這個我也實際去看了這個東富村阿陀木部落的堤防沒有壞沒有被沖毀當時因為它絕大部分往光復香大馬村啊這個佛祖街那一帶了所以這裡就沒有但是它漁業了"},{"start":5629.502,"end":5652.082,"text":"这个大水啊洪水超过了这个堤防所以造成了这个阿陶墨部落很多的家户包括很多的农田都被冲毁了在这样的一个情形之下我要说的是怎么样去防范因为现在它不高"},{"start":5653.388,"end":5681.975,"text":"所以这个未来还是要加高吗报告委员这个我们已经加高了跟委员报告现在还没有吗已经加了什么时候在大概一两个礼拜前那因为委员特别关心我们就跟股仲副主委到现场以后跟当地讨论已经加高大概一米以上用两排的顶块来做加高加固那地方的市深大概都同意这个方向我们都加高大概将近一公里"},{"start":5682.639,"end":5704.707,"text":"好 回到昨天 這是昨天的新聞馬太安菸塞浮下方河道急步崩塌 又細水所以這個前進協調所就啟動應變措施當初要撤離的是大馬村那邊的 就上游的地方的"},{"start":5705.612,"end":5730.687,"text":"那這裡沒有頭目部落沒有這個部分你們要跟水利那個林業署要做好溝通到底要不要撤離報告委員因為這一個顏色虎它是一個非常小型的顏色虎經過林保署評估它的流量最大量是670每秒立方米那依照我們評估是可以因應的"},{"start":5732.236,"end":5756.193,"text":"我的意思是說是因為這次撤離還是撤離這個上靠近馬灘溪橋那邊的嘛那個是大馬大馬部落那這個阿頭木部落要不要這個是要評估的是這個應該是在昨天那一場是不用因為他量很小好我們繼續這個是鳳林鎮三星部落"},{"start":5757.847,"end":5781.477,"text":"堤防被沖毀了是 堤防被沖毀了我也親自去看了所以在這樣的一個情形之下這個地方還有這附近是沒有家戶了是農田所以這個部分也要積極的來去處理報告委員 這個我們已經在做了我們在做一些復建的工作是 非常謝謝委員因為這裡已經涉及到"},{"start":5782.861,"end":5808.497,"text":"马太安溪还有光复溪还有什么望龙溪是所以已经到这个花莲溪了嘛对对对这我们有在作业它会更大谢谢委员指导我们有在作业所以这样的一个情形之下那这个是建英桥的上方而已建英桥的刚上游这里面也有破口所以造成了这边的一个"},{"start":5809.017,"end":5835.188,"text":"一个损害所以我讲的意思是说他因为到了花莲西他已经是更多的西过来了更多西所以这里面相关的提防的相关的这些报告委员我们在这一次除了马太安西以外大概有八到十个地方都有冲毁我们都会赶在明年四月底全部完成那现在有时间我们都陆续再执行以上报告"},{"start":5835.788,"end":5847.694,"text":"好 因為這個真的是衝得很大連這個阿頭墨部落的這個福德寺福德寺是吧 那個念詞嘛 福德寺"},{"start":5849.513,"end":5875.427,"text":"都冲到接音桥冲到接音桥的上游所以这是表示它非常的严重所以继续努力是 我们会把相关的照片再给委员参佐你们现在新的进度也提供好 是 我们会来努力谢谢委员好 谢谢曾天才委员谢谢部长接下来我们请谢义凤委员曾天才来一下"},{"start":5878.313,"end":5894.18,"text":"請鄭一鋒委員 謝一鋒委員請做詢談好 謝謝主席 我想要請工部長我們再請工部長"},{"start":5901.023,"end":5924.736,"text":"謝委員好部長我想請教一下就是現在大家還是最關注的就是關稅的問題那到底美國關稅會不會有可能從28%降到15%你有沒有信心我們持續的努力當中方向上還是你被壽命不可以講你不可以爆點"},{"start":5926.198,"end":5949.368,"text":"是不是你不会抱院长的梗还是抱总统的梗不是因为这个是我们努力的目标15%是你努力的目标是不是是整个这个谈判团队本来就努力的目标嘛那对美的投资是3000亿还是4000亿这个我就没有办法知道对"},{"start":5950.456,"end":5969.014,"text":"是嗎政府部門公部門因為投資的部分還是由民間對 主要是民間為主台積電相關的台積電是其中之一還有生態系是不是還有EMS AI Server的一些廠商"},{"start":5970.351,"end":5984.161,"text":"所以還有EMS AI Server的廠商都會去是不是對 他們有這樣的表達他們原來就在墨西哥那所以台灣廠商赴美投資有可能就是會超過三千億囉"},{"start":5986.644,"end":6000.679,"text":"這個就要看廠商的盤點了拜託 你們早就在統計了是不是 經濟部一定都在統計啦是 但是這個還是個別廠商還是由個別廠商來宣布比較妥當"},{"start":6001.69,"end":6030.179,"text":"那川普說台積電的你不用管那你台積電以外的相關的工業那麼多你進一步管不到嗎是不是所以那未來我們是支持他們的未來我是說未來那整體我們對美投資就是以台積電為主的這樣子的相關策略到底是決定在台灣還是決定在美國"},{"start":6031.479,"end":6051.5,"text":"决定在台积电是不是决定在台湾台积电对以台湾为主是不是当然了立足台湾布局全球对是以台积电为主是不是会不会就是因为大家在担心的就是台积电会不会变成美积电不会是不是绝对不会"},{"start":6052.45,"end":6078.776,"text":"你要做出什么样的做法你有什么样的做法让它不会变成美积电跟委员报告台积电事实上最多的产能最先进的技术最占钱的厂全部都在台湾所以它在台湾会持续地投资而且台积电的董事长魏哲嘉先生他也不断地说在台湾的投资的进程都没有改变比如说它在"},{"start":6080.697,"end":6106.29,"text":"高雄的部分但是台中的部分竹科的部分我知道這個已經宣布的部分這個東西你已經說了就是說台灣既有的以及就是供應全球的還有我們N-1帶的嘛這個東西對不對但是我們有一個問題是去年的數字看起來我們台人赴美去工作就高達了12.8萬人"},{"start":6109.534,"end":6125.775,"text":"那代表了就是是歷史新高喔那代表了整個就是半導體的相關的供應鏈鳳梅的確造成了我們人才外移的這樣一個現象你怎麼樣子減緩"},{"start":6127.612,"end":6142.559,"text":"包委員據我了解就是說昨天國發會主委他說他說他的朋友也常常就是在台積電工作他們都不想去美國啊那可是問題是如果整個供應鏈"},{"start":6143.76,"end":6170.939,"text":"就是说都往美国去的时候那我们台湾的人才怎么留在本地然后我们又希望吸引AI的相关的业者厂商进台湾来那要把整个AI未来的供应链都放在台湾能够让它在台湾落脚那在这样子的情况下如果我们的人才一直外移那怎么样子"},{"start":6171.539,"end":6186.939,"text":"能夠確保我們台灣未來在AI的發展上有相關的競爭力呢報告委員通常人才做全球布局它是循環性的先前的幹部比如說他建廠的時候他一定把他會蓋廠的這個"},{"start":6189.202,"end":6208.295,"text":"這個VP也好或是什麼先派去嘛等到他搶蓋了以後他會調回來的或是先前幹部他會先在那邊做處理處理完以後他會回來所以說他人才會一直循環的不會一直待在那邊所以你認為12.8萬是高峰會不會再更高"},{"start":6209.315,"end":6226.226,"text":"這個數據我可能要會不會再更高去年12月的12.8萬是不是高峰我可能要再了解一下未來會不會往下降因為我不了解這12萬到底它的內涵是怎麼樣我可能要再了解一下才能跟您報告"},{"start":6227.375,"end":6247.063,"text":"所以你也不確定可是我們必須要解決的就是我們的人才外流的這個情況但是我們現在為了招攬國外人才是非常非常的積極的所以有很多包括剛才有很多的外商來這裡設立研發中心我們也期待說他把"},{"start":6248.343,"end":6272.592,"text":"有什麼外商來設立研發中心有啊 包括NVIDIA AMD啊這個重要的廠商都是啊還有微軟啊 Google啊美光啊這些都是啊就是它會帶動就是他們會有他們會有部分的是從外國來的嘛可是他們其實還是期待我們台灣能夠協助他們就是高階的人才啊"},{"start":6273.032,"end":6288.209,"text":"他只有部分啦是啊是啊我們去美國投資也是要應用當地的人才啊對啊 也是希望啊所以這個有幾樣的道理啊所以台積電的就是說在美社廠的會讓美國的台積電的人才來台灣受訓是不是"},{"start":6289.808,"end":6312.562,"text":"有一部分好像會是這樣子是不是來台灣受訓對會會不會還有昨天我們去車撤中心那看到了就是一些車用電子的部分還有就是汽車零組件的那在這一次的美國關稅當中其實汽車零組件受創的也非常嚴重那未來"},{"start":6313.843,"end":6336.569,"text":"我們怎麼樣子協助這些汽車零組件能夠擴大就是說海外的市場那當然除了美國以外其他地區以我們半導體就是ICT相關的這樣子的一個領先的技術有沒有辦法協助我們國內的廠商搶到國際的訂單 有沒有"},{"start":6340.675,"end":6359.646,"text":"報告委員我們的汽車零組件主要是aftermarket就是說等於是維修換零件那是我們非常強這個模式跟其他的競爭對手比較不一樣像韓國跟日本他們主要的零組件區域那邊供應是要組裝成乘車的他不是"},{"start":6360.226,"end":6385.332,"text":"不是经营这个aftermarket的那我们是所以市场上是有一点点区隔的但是免不了因为你关税提升还是会受到伤害所以我们尽量帮可能可以脱销市场或是贷款上可以利息的减免或者是他用AI的技术来提升他的这个研发也好或者是转型也好这个我们也都会来支持那自驾车的部分呢自驾车的部分呢"},{"start":6386.739,"end":6397.871,"text":"自駕車你說無人自駕車無人自駕車我們現在還在實行那無人自駕的汽車零件呢示範當中對美的部分我們有辦法嗎"},{"start":6399.29,"end":6418.287,"text":"我们现在是有导入部分的这个零组件是在美国的就是它在次系统里面的零组件而已我们可能现在次系统的部分可能还是在做示范性实验对像ASDA相关的我们有办法打进去吗"},{"start":6418.647,"end":6430.588,"text":"我們現在當然希望就是透過這個經濟部兩個署他們的這個計畫不管是業界科專或法蘭科專就希望把這個次系統的部分把它"},{"start":6431.53,"end":6455.058,"text":"把它做起來了你才有辦法去出口到別的國家去把它模組以後出口到別的國家去是比較好的那上一次你說到了稀土是不會影響但是其實稀土還是有可能影響到我們的對不對我們半導體還有相關的無人機的相關的發展嗎"},{"start":6455.618,"end":6475.278,"text":"会不会会间接的影响会尤其是无人机因为它用的这个吸毒比较是泳池性的相关那导致制造业的部分因为半导体的部分导致它现在这一次禁止的部分是没有半导体制成那个部分需要的是是啊"},{"start":6475.538,"end":6488.266,"text":"跟藍這個稀土它是沒有進的是比較好但是那個部分所以我才說我們自己還是要有警覺自己透過回收的方式也好或者是我們開始做精煉或者是"},{"start":6490.411,"end":6508.8,"text":"有一个保存量我们自己供应的保存量希望在2030年可以满足我们自己的三分之一以上的一些需求我们还是会做那国际供应链的部分因为我们本来是国际供应链的需求者所以我们也会配合国际供应链的相关的一些调整的做法好谢谢"},{"start":6517.608,"end":6527.056,"text":"現在我們請召委 楊瓊瑩答詢謝謝主席 楊瓊瑩發言 邀請工部長召委好"},{"start":6540.168,"end":6562.785,"text":"工部長 依據國貿署最新向工會轉資的公文他說美國商務部正嚴寧工具機產業納入232國安條款的調查未來有可能再以國安為由來課徵額外的關稅對台灣的工具機造成了20%在家疊加關稅"},{"start":6566.415,"end":6589.202,"text":"而且这个N不知道是多少这个可以说是让我们工具机的产业又是新一波的冲击又在10月19号的报道台中产业园区产办役主的件数它是增加的这个月我们增加了将近20件工厂代售案"},{"start":6590.413,"end":6609.359,"text":"所以這些廠房多屬於工具機的相關產業顯示工具機在這段時間是急凍政府目前是聚焦在半導體跟AI產業幾乎是忽視了美方已將國安"},{"start":6610.259,"end":6629.94,"text":"的视角延伸触及到实际的实体的制造业所以政府对于整个供应链的战略变化警觉性似乎是严重的不足所以我本期要在这边请教面对供居基产业被纳入所谓的232国安条款的调查"},{"start":6630.841,"end":6639.626,"text":"經濟部你是不是做好了這個評估要將整體性的出口的一個衝擊產業鏈的關鍵影響度究竟我們要如何的來應對這個效應尤其匯率跟關稅是製造業當中的生死線"},{"start":6650.991,"end":6671.429,"text":"匯率跟關稅那政府如果沒有作為全盤的一個戰略供給機的產業勢必會成為國際博弈下的犧牲品請部長說明我想委員也有觀察到現在的確美國他把對等關稅的某些項目"},{"start":6672.185,"end":6690.095,"text":"慢慢的有些項目移到232去的確是這樣不過供需區它是有這樣的說法不過232基本上它有一個調查的程序通常那個調查程序要高達可能幾個月三個月或六個月然後才會公布它可能的一些部長 我們已經從四月份"},{"start":6691.598,"end":6715.063,"text":"美台開始談的時候政府第一時間叫我們好好睡覺到現在 到8月份告訴我們20加疊加關稅到現在告訴我們說10月底大概會有一個方向不知道是不是如此所以昨天總統到了我們的會展中心第一展手工具總統先生也在現場說了"},{"start":6716.943,"end":6740.288,"text":"近期很快會有好的報告而且會低於20%的關稅而且是不疊加所以我再一次請教既然說本期當然是充分因為中部地區都是我們的工具機 手工具這些機械類別的扣件等零組件都是在我們這裡我們非常緊張"},{"start":6742.228,"end":6764.501,"text":"所有的產業界非常的憂心你還要告訴我們說只有調查還要幾個月那你也明明知道說你也明明知道說現在列入那到底我們政府第一個請教政府昨天總統先生在我們台中會展中心所說的是不是陳儒總統先生所說的"},{"start":6768.507,"end":6777.169,"text":"公布的關稅會低於20%會不會這個本來就是我們努力的方向會低於20%而且是我們正面的方向第二個不會再疊加對 這個也是我們努力的方向總統先生昨天就這麼說了說很快會告訴我們這個好的消息那你身為部長啊這個是你最重要的幕僚啊是不是誠如總統先生所說的"},{"start":6795.427,"end":6816.961,"text":"那這個很快是什麼時候原本告訴我們是10月那10月底會不會告訴我們報告委員因為還是11月因為最後的這個叫做最終談判事實上還要看美國的時間跟我們的時間因為美國最近又碰到APEC現在正在進行當中所以美國還有他們要去東協"},{"start":6819.022,"end":6834.911,"text":"有开会部长 人民很乖 产业很乖产业希望政府当他们的靠山大家都很乖 很努力在做事因为您之前政府告诉我们大概这个暂时禁关税大约10月"},{"start":6835.831,"end":6853.688,"text":"所以當然10月已經現在已經22號了那所以我們一定要請教目前的進度到底是怎麼樣呢技術性的談判大概都已經確認了那最終就是等於是最後的這個所以請教今天10月22號10月底會不會有像總統說的很快會給我們好的訊息 會不會"},{"start":6856.39,"end":6869.837,"text":"這個主要還是要看美國的時間所以你還是沒有辦法給本席這個時間我告訴你因為以我們的工具機產業為例日元它的匯兌美元匯率五年來它貶了多少 42.4"},{"start":6871.778,"end":6894.91,"text":"那我方我們新台幣最貶的是3.6億%所以如果再加上美國對日本的對等關稅他們是15%我們是20%還要再加疊加在這樣的情況之下我們的差距大概10%那導致日本的機器會比台灣的機器它的價格會便宜20%到30%這個就是主要"},{"start":6898.452,"end":6914.984,"text":"為什麼我們的產業這麼樣的被冷凍所以我極度嚴厲的要求政府你對於我們這些傳統產業實體的產業你務必要加強去關心去應對是不是 是"},{"start":6916.706,"end":6937.307,"text":"這460億一定都是用在傳產上面說老實話不夠絕對會不夠因為這一些預算從一開始發生事情的時候我們在野就馬上提出要政府編列振興經濟方案怎麼樣來協助我們的產業對不對如果不夠的話我們還有200億可以再提出來就是部長我還是誠心您是專家"},{"start":6939.724,"end":6966.402,"text":"本席認為產業要聽的是政府的政策政府的方向政府的時程這非常的重要因為總統先生昨天就已經這麼說了到現在你是經濟部長還沒辦法告訴我們那最後本席再請教您的解讀是不是賴總統所說的也就是不會宣布的時候20%的關稅會比20%更低是不是方向上是這樣"},{"start":6967.526,"end":6985.621,"text":"不會疊加關稅是不是方向上原則上在10月底還是11月可以告訴國人是不是如此這個也是我們努力的目標因為產業我相信你也非常清楚等不及了我到底要不要接單我們也是很努力到底要不要接單不是你們努力的問題而是你要傾聽產業的心聲"},{"start":6987.923,"end":7007.717,"text":"我到底要不要接單我到底要不要投資因為我要告訴你在金管會到8月底國營對中小企業的放款10.7兆裡頭雖然叫7月份增加了242億但是是創下重點在這裡創下了7年來同期最低"},{"start":7008.778,"end":7011.379,"text":"現在他們怎麼樣呢只有還錢保生如果我們的產業是這種方式那我們的競爭力在哪裡呢我們的產業到底該怎麼樣的方向呢實際上的數字告訴你是如此啊對我們前幾個禮拜也帶了供給機業者去參加德國漢恩威的這個這是本席要求政府必須要"},{"start":7032.776,"end":7042.81,"text":"好好的做產業的靠山 對不對所以你如果只有戒心來減少還舊沒有加速 只有還舊加速沒有人加救啊只有還錢保生啊"},{"start":7049.365,"end":7065.152,"text":"你用數字去看啊就是我們對於我們的政策我們的政府沒有信心才會如此嗎所以用實際的數字告訴你本席具體要求你們必須要好好針對我們的傳統產業我們的實體產業96%的勞動業者勞動員工都在這裡你要好好的來照顧嘛對不對"},{"start":7084.619,"end":7088.36,"text":"好 接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做巡檔 謝謝周委好 首先有請我們經濟部龔部長好 我們再請龔部長周委好 龔部長好"},{"start":7111.604,"end":7129.925,"text":"你今天的经济部的业务报告这一本写得非常清楚明了那我首先就就教你经济业务报告里面就以关于苗栗的事情那我再请我们水利署的林署长水利署林署长"},{"start":7137.992,"end":7159.71,"text":"現在要建一個水庫非常困難報告部長你們林市長的溝通能力非常好他對拜訪苗栗縣然後要如何建水庫把那些相信說服的都說歡迎趕快來建但是我今天看你們的關於天花湖水庫的預算都沒有編"},{"start":7160.932,"end":7168.287,"text":"林市長你不要只聞樓梯響不見人蹤影你不要去騙我們地方的鄉親為什麼沒有編列預算"},{"start":7172.678,"end":7201.918,"text":"包括我们委员你沟通能力好但是我是看你人脸实在应该讲话不会骗我才对对 委员因为这个你很关心那我跟您报告其实都有在进展现在天然汽水库我们预计年底这边就会开始来呈报行政院来走后续的程序是今年年底还是明年年底今年年底好啊 你报告需要给我小的不然人家再问我都不晓得怎么回答是 这个也是我们列为重点工作部长 要不要全力的支持"},{"start":7202.658,"end":7204.739,"text":"我請台電的曾董事長我們請台電曾董事長"},{"start":7231.417,"end":7245.531,"text":"因為我節目一條一條給你們那個尊董事長我看到你一個報告說未來台灣AI的大四季中心最好建在電廠的附近你有這樣的報導有沒有這樣的事情"},{"start":7246.498,"end":7261.465,"text":"我是說要建在電源端那電源端就是電廠要建在哪裡電源端電源就是電廠的附近嘛好那今天這個部長我是地方產業我們那邊有苗栗通宵火栗花電廠"},{"start":7262.871,"end":7285.053,"text":"在苗栗 我們也準備要來設立AI大四季的中心到那邊那邊是所有台中以北土地最便宜而且最適合條件如果我們提出來 經濟部要不要支持我們你們台電董事長說大四季中心最好建在電廠的附近要給我們支持嗎"},{"start":7289.008,"end":7301.22,"text":"包委員因為這個數據中心有分兩個部分一個是公家的最多的是私人部門的那私人部門的公家私人的話在那邊是最好的"},{"start":7302.199,"end":7319.074,"text":"我把它從台中以北算一算設在苗栗最好的不曉得你答話還是要設在南部等一下我還有問題要問不要一面的往南邊跑你都照顧苗栗我看你我當到經濟委員會看你一直在做"},{"start":7319.995,"end":7338.984,"text":"大觀而且是當朝的紅人啊但是我覺得你沒有在幫我們苗栗幫忙你說往南部啊我去苗栗不是 我今天這個重點講得很簡單如果我們苗栗有火力發電廠我們要設立台中以北的大四季中心"},{"start":7340,"end":7355.028,"text":"你們要不要全力支持因為現在大蘇區中心是國科會在你們以前連講說北部不能再設了我只要抓緊這個區區因為電的供應量不夠只要苗栗的電量供應最多的"},{"start":7356.108,"end":7377.864,"text":"我這個時間跟你討論得這麼久我還有很多問題要問的你不要這樣搞我可以把委員的這個想法跟意見轉達給國科會我覺得委員講的也是有道理有道理你講話國科會會聽因為你以前在國會包括業主委我看起來都是你的徒弟為什麼你們寫的這種業務報告都是一樣的"},{"start":7381.627,"end":7383.81,"text":"你從國會的執委到行政院的秘書長到現在經濟部長"},{"start":7400.177,"end":7421.591,"text":"大溪谷計劃有三個苗栗 鳳龍產業園區還有竹蘭第二期科學園區的推展還有桃園的科學園區我經濟部鳳龍的科技產業園區我已經解決了經濟部當委問第四頁主管器官但是你比我大"},{"start":7423.112,"end":7447.346,"text":"我千拜託萬拜託我發覺不理你 你當行政院秘書長就躲起來還好你來當經濟部長 我可以天天盯著你我一直跟你拜託你那邊是國科會主導的一個 主管目的實業機關我請你幫我們協調 你都不吃麵南部要一個什麼 你都比誰還快"},{"start":7449.451,"end":7476.977,"text":"苗栗要一個什麼你就這樣偷偷拉拉的我實在這一次還好你來到這部部長我隨時能看到你因為你做過這些事情你最清楚你要不要再幫我們協調一次你接你的劉俊興指揮他卸任的當天早上7點鐘發了一個給我說他很抱歉這個沒有幫我協調成功"},{"start":7478.502,"end":7504.699,"text":"现在行政院秘务司长现在你经济部长要不要帮我协调报告委员分成两个部分一个部分你又分成好几个部分我不晓得要听你哪一个部分现在就是比如说厚龙的部分这个是我们经济部主管我协调完了你们那些很优秀都全力的帮忙但是如果要跨到这个国科会的部分那那个部分我们就只能"},{"start":7505.717,"end":7526.734,"text":"轉達或是希望國發會來做協調你聽我說的大溪谷計畫是由你國發會執委你當時的執委提出來的然後到現在已經一年多了你在當行政院長的時候我碰到這個問題我請你協調說得不好意思你有一點不理不睬"},{"start":7527.836,"end":7549.153,"text":"你做行政院秘書長 我要把你撐起來你說我很忙 我沒有空這都不會做 因為我很老實的人所以這一點 當然你政治部長現在管不上但是你以前的影響力還在我是要用這樣 要我倒數嗎好啊有啦有啦 好啦 你這樣說我相信你現在在這裡說話"},{"start":7553.96,"end":7578.263,"text":"還有再來回答在台北市總部大概三公頃現在怎麼樣他們因為我們經濟部被要求的是說希望在10月24號之前如果17 18如果沒有談妥的話我們盡快的可能備選的這個基地可以提供給這個"},{"start":7579.434,"end":7603.552,"text":"回答參考這樣回答參考啊你也再幫我一次啊其實不一定在台北歐苗栗縣有一塊土地非常漂亮走到高鐵用走路了只有兩分鐘20公頃又便宜又好你不但研發中心可以設立包括他的司科特包括他招待的外賓是"},{"start":7605.171,"end":7631.713,"text":"都可以在那邊設立來促進我們苗栗產業的發展你記得那個地點離新竹科學園區工研院高鐵的話坐了大概16分鐘開車大概20分鐘在台中科學園區大概25到30分鐘交大 清大都在旁邊"},{"start":7633.257,"end":7652.061,"text":"你給我們引薦一下不一定選在那個地方而且給他那麼風光明媚非常的好那委員我們的態度是這樣我們會盡量多提讓他去參考反正這個是他決定的但是我們可能的這個基地我們都提供給他參考"},{"start":7656.395,"end":7672.669,"text":"可以不可以我們會我們會如果好謝謝你今天講的三件都可以我本來七八件要問你的好今天到此為止三件答應我就很滿足了希望能承諾下來幫我完成好不好好謝謝好謝謝好接下來我們請大陸人委員請做詢問"},{"start":7684.656,"end":7685.8,"text":"好 謝謝趙薇然後請龔部長我們請龔部長"},{"start":7696.289,"end":7722.458,"text":"這個AI的新十大建設啦這個相當重要啦那我看到其實矽光子的研發中心這個部分AMD已經很久了啦這個大概談了一年多的時間跟整個整體的合作啦所以我想他現在就正在蓋廠當中正在蓋廠那我說他這個座落在高雄這個部分"},{"start":7723.038,"end":7744.349,"text":"我們談了很長的時間了嘛所以已經開始蓋廠經濟部也給予一定的支持跟協助我想這一塊就是對我們來說就是把輝達跟AMD留在台灣當然他們選擇哪個地點我們就全力的協助他們這應該是最符合整個台灣的利益那也很高興就是AMD又選擇了高雄所以我想這一塊"},{"start":7745.75,"end":7768.53,"text":"已經開始在蓋廠了嘛那也請經濟部持續的大力來協助啦就是說AMD的選擇它現在包括在台南在高雄的雅灣都有做了一些選擇那我希望後續上持續來大力推動特別是我們本來就把雅灣的智慧科技創新園區也定位成是我們AI一個重要的重鎮那我們當然希望這一塊"},{"start":7769.37,"end":7788.502,"text":"它的不管是電力或者是土地各方面都很充沛的狀況下我們希望全力發展來厚實我們整個台灣的一個競爭力當然希望AI能夠成為我們下一個護國群山不只半導體我們有更多的護國群山能夠出現那AI是大家現在都普遍看好所以我相信這個時間來投入這個點是正確的"},{"start":7790.743,"end":7805.943,"text":"所以我再次跟部長確定一下就回答AMD跟這個西光池的研發中心的部分在高雄這個是定案的嗎確定沒問題他們已經在推動當中好那這個部分當然也是配合我們的Aplus計畫裡面Aplus計畫裡面的這個我想後續持續來推動"},{"start":7809.167,"end":7830.222,"text":"那除了這個以外我也想要請教一下我們的無人機其實也是一個重要的產業那政府也要投入442億未來2030年創造400億的一個經濟產值那我們都知道其實高雄特別是北高雄這邊有漢祥同時間也有我們的金工中心"},{"start":7832.003,"end":7859.194,"text":"包括無人機甚至無人船的部分在無人機無人船這個都是一個新的很重要的產業我們有台船有中信等等很多造船產業在高雄也非常強那這個部分會加大力道嗎在高雄的部分特別是北高雄的所謂的無人機的產業鏈或者是在整個高雄的無人船的產業鏈會持續來加大力道強者讓他更強更具有國際競爭力"},{"start":7860.595,"end":7885.882,"text":"是 可以 這個會來朝這個方向來推因為本身就已經具有相當好的一些條件我們來看這個無人機的部分你看其實已經有台灣有16個業者已經有加入到了這個無人機的海外商機的聯盟那當然它本身也包括漢翔的部分包括金工中心都在這邊那無人船的部分其實我們有"},{"start":7887.182,"end":7901.714,"text":"包括台船包括中信甚至於周邊很多的造船產業都很強所以我也希望這一塊請經濟部持續加大力道在無人機這一塊特別是在不管是從國家的安全角度中產業的角度其實都很有很大的潛力"},{"start":7904.015,"end":7929.444,"text":"高雄的北高雄有漢翔有金工中興等等然後有台船有中信我希望強上加強讓我們的無人機無人船的產業在高雄能夠更快速的發展那也符合整個國家整體的利益部長這個沒問題嗎沒問題好謝謝我們再來看一下高雄市整體的發展上面過去我們只有工業主要以工業為基礎但現在我們的S郎代慢慢拉起來後"},{"start":7930.104,"end":7946.306,"text":"我們的工業除了我們的鋼鐵石化電力造船在高雄都是強項電力高雄往外縣市供應我們還持續在增加新的電廠所以我們基礎產業強以外我們現在的半導體產業也拉進來了那也持續在增強"},{"start":7947.307,"end":7975.784,"text":"那經濟部在高雄就有13個園區其實是重鎮非常重要的一個地方我也希望部長持續的加大對高雄這個招商跟投資的力道包括現在講到的矽光子的研發基地在雅灣包括無人機的產業鏈在北高雄整個群聚的一個效果我們希望都能夠帶動那配合AI配合半導體產業我們希望整個活絡高雄讓高雄的這個產業鏈能夠更加的強大部長這個沒問題吧沒問題"},{"start":7978.226,"end":8003.904,"text":"好 謝謝部長部長一句沒問題大概我就全部都接收了我都接收那希望因為這個剛剛委員講的就是高雄現在發展都在進行式剛剛引進這個高科技產業包括半導體AI這個已經在進行式了那矽光石的部分剛剛AMD也開始進駐了那無人機剛剛也有一些基礎的發展所以這個都是在進行式的我們只要政府我們"},{"start":8004.384,"end":8026.11,"text":"注入資源推他們一把我想就會發展得很好我也希望部長持續加強力道啦給他們更多的支持給他們更多的資源的時候他們就會發展得更好是好不好這請部長就持續的能夠加大這個力道在預算上在政治上面持續加大力道是是是好謝謝部長那接下來我要問一下啦大林埔千春其實我們談了很多次了啦那"},{"start":8028.21,"end":8053.747,"text":"這個明年度要編列60億嘛明年度要列60億的經費那明年第二季要啟動協議架構的程序嘛那接下來4月份要進行道路的工程這個都是既定的程序嘛是是是我希望包括接下來有很多的像環評或都計的這些的我也希望能夠部長能夠協調各單位加快跟環保環境部跟整個內政部都能夠加快程序啦不然從2018年蘇院長合併到現在已經將"},{"start":8058.17,"end":8084.06,"text":"八年過去了那如果再持續的拖下去百姓真的會等太久了我希望這一塊請部長協調一下兩個部會間加快那個程序現在比較沒有因為之前都是在您這邊提到全方位照顧鄉親權益那時候鄉親的權益一直在先簽尊先談好補償等等一些情況那我想那個部分已經告一段落了那明年就可以開始所以速度就會加快好"},{"start":8084.44,"end":8110.75,"text":"那我希望這個部分能不能在因為已經也經過很長時間了齁2027年正式來啟動千春部長朝這個方向來做好不好2027年好不好一定要朝這個方向來完成啦因為相信你等待很久2018年核定經過了10年如果還沒辦法啟動明年的第二季是協議架構但是協議架構完跟千春還有一段距離啦我希望"},{"start":8111.13,"end":8139.773,"text":"2027年部長有承諾了2027年我們正式來啟動千村好不好我們給大林埔鄉親一個明確的一個交代了部長沒問題嗎好的好的好好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢問謝謝謝謝主席請工部長我們再請工部長"},{"start":8148.037,"end":8171.612,"text":"部長 美國已經在8月7號已經宣布對台灣實施20%的暫行稅率那剛剛有聽到好消息說會有更好的消息那更好的消息應該就是降低這個稅率跟讓我們疊加稅率也能夠得到豁免對不對那美國其實對等關稅對台灣的這個政策而言我們"},{"start":8172.412,"end":8193.985,"text":"看到的是有兩個含義第一個就是希望消除了對台灣的貿易的逆差第二個就是對台灣半導體供應鏈能夠擴大到美國去投資除了可以給美國人就業的空間跟經濟的產值最關鍵的還是美國希望能夠掌握半導體晶片跟產能的關鍵技術對不對"},{"start":8196.267,"end":8218.85,"text":"那在最近美國的商務部的部長這個盧特尼克他有提出來台美晶片製造五五分這件事情我們當場我們也是已經拒絕了但是我們擔心說我們在拒絕當下他會不會對我們產生就是有"},{"start":8219.351,"end":8230.093,"text":"更多的威胁跟让我们的这个在谈判当中会不会就在试探我们的底线或者是说看到底我们会不会同意这问题吗"},{"start":8232.096,"end":8257.046,"text":"美國他的想法當然是高階晶片他自己需要的部分某一部分可以在美國生產這是他的想法但是對我們來講的話我們最先進的半導體的技術要留在台灣最大的產能也會留在台灣因為我們供應不只是美國我們供應給全世界所以這個先進製程的產線我們會比美國多得非常多"},{"start":8258.146,"end":8287.664,"text":"所以部长台湾在半导体领域里面是我们这地位是在国际上占有一席之地尤其是二奈米的先进制程我们将近有九成对不对是九成在国际的市占率所以这也就是我们台湾要建构成这个细钝最重要的一环所以要请部长在这边一定要坚守着我们的核心产业的技术绝对不能妥协一定这个五五分的这个晶片的问题是是是好"},{"start":8287.984,"end":8307.111,"text":"那接下來的話就是美國目前他對中國大陸課徵了55%的這個對等關稅是算是全球最高他是為了要報復美國的這關稅的壓力大陸最近也提出來了在12月要擴大稀土礦物的這個出口的"},{"start":8307.911,"end":8335.204,"text":"管制那連續在這個這四月以來大概有兩波了那我們看到在我們的晶片方面在稀土方面你們說這個應該是不會在這個項目裡面是不同項目啦對不對那但是我們擔心的就是無人機的部分無人機他們所需要的這個成分的話剛好就是我們大陸正在限制這個那個項目是混合的對不對"},{"start":8336.424,"end":8361.814,"text":"是 不過這一個部分因為全世界都已經開始提它的替代方案所以我們有提出替代方案嗎因為我們是間接需求所以我們要跟國際的供應鏈間接需求還是有需求如果沒有這個材料我們還是有困難對 所以我們要跟國際供應鏈他們的步調一致所以在這方面的話我們有沒有做重新的調整有 就是說怎麼樣配合國際供應鏈的調整"},{"start":8365.356,"end":8374.466,"text":"他们因应做法我们会来配合那第二个就是说我们自己我们自己可能要保有我们自己需求一部分我们国内的"},{"start":8375.29,"end":8394.975,"text":"这个自己自足量我们自己开始有这样利用回收的部分利用回收所以是工研院还有针对这个废弃的那个电器的话做精炼的提炼来供应我们的产业的需求这个技术已经成熟了啦这样子的提炼产量就够吗"},{"start":8395.855,"end":8423.18,"text":"它现在是公斤级现在要转给这个企业界企业界他们量可以做得比较大做更大所以在这方面我们要请这部长一定要重视这个无人机这个问题该做适当的调整我们还是要做适当的调整才不会影响这个产业的发展好不好无人机整个产业链的发展那接下来跟部长所提的就是汽车是美国最有非常重要的工业品项他特别也提到我们的"},{"start":8424.12,"end":8445.098,"text":"进口关税我们双方在交涉当中希望能够调降目前的进口关税是大概在17.5%那有没有可能会在美国这进口关税上调整为零关税个别项目这个我就不是那么清楚了已经有在谈了"},{"start":8446.524,"end":8475.182,"text":"經濟部長不清楚對 它是一個談判的項目沒有錯但是個別項目的部分這個就比較不清楚為什麼會這樣講呢因為中華賓士他們特別有在提到如果說零關稅的話對他們一些其他進口車包括歐系的中華賓士就是歐系的還有日系還有韓系的車子他們都影響非常非常的大那如果說有這種情形發生的話那其他各國可能會"},{"start":8475.802,"end":8492.767,"text":"像我們世界貿易組織這個WTO來控告我們違反了貿易自由的所以會這樣發生那部長你對這個看法怎麼說因為美國的關稅跟各國都在談判然後有個別有個別的不一樣那如果說"},{"start":8494.41,"end":8518.735,"text":"臺灣如果這樣要因此而被告的話那所有的國家都會被告會這樣子提部長你沒有發現最重要問題如果美國的進口車是零關稅大家就經過美國然後再進來臺灣這樣洗產地的方式進來就會影響整個不行就是說你如果要算是美國製的話他有一定的比例他的附加價值至少要35%以上他在美國設廠從美國那邊進來啊"},{"start":8521.135,"end":8537.053,"text":"它要在美國製造啊是啊在美國製造就算是美國車沒有錯在台灣製造就是台灣車部長還有最重要的你知道說我們台灣的車子在我們台灣組裝的進口車在台灣組裝的產業大不大"},{"start":8537.754,"end":8557.354,"text":"你知道吗不小 对所以关于这个部分将近有30万的汽车跟我们的零件组织的供应链从业人员我们有将近30万包括零组件对 零组件所以都在我们这边如果你从不从美国设厂从美国进来西陕地进来那我们30万的从业人员"},{"start":8557.995,"end":8571.024,"text":"那怎麼辦呢不會讓他洗產地啦所以你要嚴格保管你有什麼做法你有什麼做法海關本來就會他要因為他就是我們跟美國談判美國人也"},{"start":8572.045,"end":8596.662,"text":"也不允許我們洗產地所以這是對等的啦所以部長一定要確保市場的公平跟國內產業的生存空間我們可以的做法就是說在原產地原產地品牌的認證做一個配套是不是品牌的認證好不好這點要嚴格把關保護我們的產業就是確認它是不是美製的好 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":8602.045,"end":8628.372,"text":"接下來我們請賴世保委員請做詢談謝謝主席有請我們的工部長我們再請工部長老闆好你好我只有兩個簡單問題第一個"},{"start":8632.524,"end":8648.636,"text":"賴總統說有好消息應該就講關稅有好消息好消息是不是就是確定兩件事情 確定一下是不是關稅不再跌加20%往下降 是不是"},{"start":8650.539,"end":8675.198,"text":"方向上是這樣 對不疊加然後往下降那最多能降多少呢我認為了不起跟韓國日本一樣啊降到15%啊15%是最低的啦如果是順差國15%是最低的啦就降到15%嘛所以最好的情況就是不疊加降到15%確定嘛但是我要強調的一點是"},{"start":8678.553,"end":8705.723,"text":"是時間點啊timing啊我們從4月5月開始談哇那時候好了不起喔我說台灣全世界前四個國家有五個國家能夠跟美國談關稅結果一談談到現在好幾個國家都已經確定了我們一直沒有確定有一種講法坊間一個講法媒體有一種講法就說啊因為在"},{"start":8707.188,"end":8729.233,"text":"川習會會面之前台灣不會搞定一定要之後才搞定即便你現在講了什麼什麼什麼之類的之後就等於說我們還是在被中美的談判的框架裡面我們還是被制約的照理講賴總統如果講這麼好的消息出來"},{"start":8730.153,"end":8749.583,"text":"趕快去搞定啊這兩天就把它確定了啊對不對 結果現在看起來就是要等到APEC之後等於是川習見了面以後台灣再搞定這個事情你覺得怎麼樣巴爾委員的確是有這樣的說法這是時間上確定嗎這個是時間上有這樣的說法就是說可能他比較優先的因為"},{"start":8756.867,"end":8785.188,"text":"美中的這個貿易比較複雜而且量比較大我們不複雜所以時間上來講的話時間上來講的話他可能會比較來處理對中的事某種程度就是我們的重要性不如中國大陸嘛很清楚吧就這樣子啊我們的半導體是全世界最好的我知道哪裡只有半導體啊那其他他要希望大陸的稀土啊"},{"start":8786.028,"end":8802.079,"text":"還要希望大陸買他的大豆啊 對不對他的大陸籌碼多啊 我們的籌碼少啊我們籌碼就一個晶片 相關產業但是報告委員我們跟美國人談的部分你所謂的框架是沒有在中國的框架之下"},{"start":8802.819,"end":8824.272,"text":"事實是完全不一樣你剛才同意啦 就是在他後面啦那是時間 時間的關係時間對他在他後面啦但是談判的內容框架是沒有的我們談是在前面談耶為什麼要在後面內容上是完全無關我知道啦 但是你就說我們談在什麼樣就是很讓人很嘔的地方啦我們就照著概供啊"},{"start":8825.732,"end":8838.615,"text":"而且台美關係不是很好嗎結若磐石嗎怎麼會擺一擺擺到後面去了談判也有彼此的堅持還是要有時間因為我們也有我們的堅持我們有堅持嗎我們都循環啊我們能夠談到你剛剛講的不疊加如果確定可以談到15%嗎"},{"start":8845.788,"end":8872.918,"text":"努力啦 努力 方向不是 確定啦 是不是確定不是 這個是我們努力的方向你剛剛確定喔你剛剛跟我確定喔 這個是我們努力的方向我們努力的方向 對但是要付出什麼代價蕭美錦副總統是講啦代價就是我們整個晶片的supply chain都過去啦 對不對從上面的design到今年代工到整個封裝伺服器通通過去啦你變成這樣子"},{"start":8874.458,"end":8886.662,"text":"台灣半導體的生態系還是會留在台灣而且還會壯大你知道這樣一來的話有幾家廠要去你知道嗎沒有 台灣的半導體的生態系你跟我講 因為我時間不要佔用後面的時間是有幾家廠要過去 有幾家沒有 我們知道的就是說他會去投資美國並不表示要搬過去不是這樣的意思"},{"start":8897.199,"end":8905.147,"text":"投資這某種程度 你是程度差別而已啦因為台灣也會壯大 台灣壯大除了台積電供現金有超過一兆以上很多的supply chain沒有啊包括比如說封裝廠 它有這麼多現金嗎伺服器的代工廠有這麼多現金嗎它整個都是supply chain的一環"},{"start":8920.563,"end":8933.419,"text":"他還沒有這麼多錢啊可以說我在台灣一個在美國一個他整個來講別忘了如果這些補那麼多過去的話我看到的是什麼台灣的年輕人下一代我們下下代"},{"start":8934.69,"end":8956.293,"text":"他們的工作機會會大幅減少我看到的是這個東西現在台灣的高科技產業是缺人才所以還缺很多所以我們需要更多的人才所以只要你一直沒有回答我就告訴你整個supply chain是數百家到上千家的supply chain整個我們看到的是都過去我不相信說"},{"start":8957.774,"end":8974.226,"text":"我們所有的數百家上千家都可以說台灣一個廠 美國一個廠沒有上千家啦我不相信沒有這麼厲害啦除了台積電幾個幾個很大的廠所以這個去美國投資如果這家公司不賺錢他就不會去啊"},{"start":8975.026,"end":8980.688,"text":"他為什麼要去 如果不賺錢我幹嘛去那邊投資我們副總統已經講了 都說要去的啊就這樣講啊所以他是跟國內跟國外部長 那因為委員很關心你詳細再跟委員說明清楚謝謝接下來我們請王育民委員請做詢問 謝謝"},{"start":9002.107,"end":9005.251,"text":"谢谢主席我们有请工部长我们再请工部长谢谢"},{"start":9012.333,"end":9034.309,"text":"黃委員好部長好 昨天在院會質詢的時候 我有問到根據水庫管理辦法我們任何的計畫送來核准一次只能三年喔但是你們的光電板 你們自己一核就核了七年喔我今天要在這邊正式的問部長請問你是根據哪一個法條可以"},{"start":9035.43,"end":9041.321,"text":"超越這個水庫管理辦法的三年的限制然後直接核准洗碗 哪一個法條 請具體說明"},{"start":9043.291,"end":9070.296,"text":"報告委員這邊講第五條對不對續審時間下月十一其行為人應該向管理機關申請許可那如果他本身是管理機關的話就不是這個是適用第五條了因為農業部他本身是管理機關所以他可以在這個水庫上你是依據哪一個法條這樣子講的在所有的水庫管理辦法哪一條就是說他是管理人的話可以不適用這個辦法因為第五條"},{"start":9070.956,"end":9096.389,"text":"第五條你告訴我是哪一條不是第五條就是不適用管理機關你告訴我是哪一條啦我們依法論法嘛你直接講出嘛就哪一條嘛如果說你有訂另外一個規定這個來超越這個辦法這個我接受嘛請問你是用哪一條他是管理機關是本於全責他的辦理所以管理機關就不用嘛好那我要開始答聯你了請注意看喔"},{"start":9098.508,"end":9120.996,"text":"這個經濟部你知道除了水庫管理辦法之外每一個水庫自己還有執法對不對這個我手上的是經濟部核准的你們自己公告的烏山頭水庫它的蓄水範圍及申請許可事項你們後來在執法裡面有把光電板放進來了特別針對公告事項有針對光電板"},{"start":9121.696,"end":9141.604,"text":"但是在你們的公告裡面清清楚楚你的管理機關以烏山水庫來講是嘉南管理處光電廠商要不要送申請 要白紙黑字寫得非常的清楚結果你昨天的新聞稿根本是亂七八糟"},{"start":9143.304,"end":9162.653,"text":"進行扭曲這個你自己公告的執法你說我只要是我今天加難管理處我就不需要審核不需要有計劃我愛怎麼做就怎麼做事情不是如此啊他們要有一套審核標準對啊 那你審核的標準你不是按照水庫管理辦法來嗎"},{"start":9163.934,"end":9182.527,"text":"那個期限你有在任何的執法裡面說只要是光電廠商一下子我就可以給7年我可以超越水庫管理辦法沒有啊我們今天是依法論法嘛這個經濟部你作為主管水庫的你這個所有的辦法都是你頒布的"},{"start":9182.927,"end":9206.072,"text":"你不可以自己頒布這樣一個辦法那今天被委員發現說你在核可這些太陽光電的時候你都超越了水庫管理辦法你一核就核給七年你按照你的水庫管理辦法你就是一次最多三年然後你下一次要再經過你們的同意但是你們現在公告的連這個執法"},{"start":9208.752,"end":9220.406,"text":"你們都要違反然後昨天在說什麼只要是我們管理單位我們設的這一些光電板這個通通都不適用於這個水庫管理辦法"},{"start":9221.744,"end":9246.227,"text":"這是違法的你們經濟部到底有沒有法務人員這樣子那個新聞稿可以發出來另外一個很離譜的你們說什麼你們說這一些光電板都是水利水利署相關管理單位的財產你們有沒有去看過業者跟你們訂的契約在契約裡面光電板是廠商有的還是你們相關管理單位有的都亂說一通昨天那個新聞稿是誰發的哪個單位發的"},{"start":9249.811,"end":9265.699,"text":"誰寫的 哪個單位發出來了有沒有很嚴謹的去審核昨天在院會我就講得非常清楚昨天院長也說要回去好好的檢討結果你們就急著出手"},{"start":9267.039,"end":9293.276,"text":"這樣一個新聞稿真的是你們把自己作為一個管理機關的高度做小了我請問如果你這樣胡亂解釋一通你未來怎麼去管理那些要來跟你深設計畫的相關單位你自己都違法在先你有什麼立場跟資格去管理其他的計畫呢我覺得這件事情針對第五條這個部分因為它的確是不適用這個第五條的辦法"},{"start":9294.076,"end":9309.653,"text":"不適用 是你們自己解釋的啊你們自己的執法裡面也都沒有說不適用啊他本身就是管理機關 什麼管理機關跟管理機關自己申請你是委託光電廠商來設置光電板部長你不要越講越離譜了他是約束那一個申請人"},{"start":9310.694,"end":9335.774,"text":"你不要越講越離譜了你自己的執法裡面都還叫這一些來生設光電板的你要送計畫要來經過我的許可絕對不是你們說完全不需要許可我希望這件事情經濟部你好好的去檢討昨天在院會院長已經裁示了要求你們檢討你們就好好的檢討有疏漏的以後就不要再犯但是千萬不能硬拗謝謝謝謝"},{"start":9341.034,"end":9366.1,"text":"謝謝王委員謝謝龔部長我們繼續請盧縣議委員請做詢問主席有請龔部長跟水利署黃副署長好我們請兩位署長你要上台的時候主席台對對謝謝"},{"start":9369.435,"end":9379.153,"text":"部長好 我們先看一段影片沒有聲音沒有聲音"},{"start":9385.683,"end":9406.878,"text":"好 没有关系 这没有声音这是我前天去四子乡也就是丰港西流域邻近的族人在做抗议抗议最主要的诉求是希望能够远离鸡屎味希望不要再合床种植西瓜后来我们去了那个地方以后发现有四个违法的明显违法的事实第一个是食用生鸡粪"},{"start":9407.558,"end":9432.783,"text":"第二个是撕屁道路第三个是破坏河体第四个是在河床上兴建铁皮屋所以我想请问我们副座地方政府是否长期纵容业者违反县府的规范在未登陆地或者是野稀全责不清的区域违法种植导致环境污染数十年然后这是系统性的执法失灵还是行政怠惰"},{"start":9433.451,"end":9452.795,"text":"报告委员这个案件我们有掌握那这个是县政府管理的河川那在委员这个积极的关切之下呢我们其实已经有跟县政府这边积极来督促他们赶快来做处理所以他目前要进行裁判是大概是新台币"},{"start":9453.987,"end":9481.668,"text":"两万五到五十万元之间不过这是将进行裁判可是我们主任的诉求是说希望能够就它违法的部分如果是确实违法的话它应该是按照我们78条之一种西瓜使用生鸡粪饮水都需许可违规可撤销然后91条之二就是说以违反许可内容使用的时候可以废止取租约朝这个方向来是我们会来努力OK"},{"start":9482.208,"end":9505.815,"text":"那现在根据空污法的裁罚他大概也只有罚到五千到十万左右所以对业者来讲可能是一个不是很痛痒的一个裁罚那现在主任有一个明确的诉求就是说他不要任何的补偿金只要将违反乱纪或者是未申请种植西瓜的业主呢予以撤销他的种植证照我先给你看一下大概第四张"},{"start":9506.809,"end":9509.254,"text":"它違法的區域有這麼寬我們到了這個地區的時候"},{"start":9512.557,"end":9539.707,"text":"发现它也不是七分署管也不是水利署管也不是原民会管这个等于是真空地带那后来问国产署说国产署总是你们的财产法因为按照我们现在国有财产法第二条规定反而不属于私有或地方所有的财产均是为国有财产可是这个地区是没有经过许可也没有经过登记也没有去申请合法的租约可是这个区块是我们"},{"start":9540.467,"end":9567.443,"text":"眼睛看到大概十個足球場那麼大那你說這樣那個區域是就在部落旁邊這個他們常常為了規避這些捲舉他們大概都是半夜或者是大概將近昨天看到的那個捲舉的民眾捲舉是9點22分在他們村莊那個Line上面說就開始飄那個濃濃的雞屎味也就是說他們利用這個投機取巧的方式來放這個生雞糞所以"},{"start":9568.598,"end":9595.192,"text":"他們希望能夠明確的可以終止他們這個租約或者是終止執照好不好是 報告委員我們會來經濟協調縣政府趕快來做處置對 而且這個屬於我們傳統領域是瑟布利西一個傳統領域在1893年曾經發生過元漢的一個衝突造成四個人死亡已經過了100多年133年到目前為止那個區塊我們認定它是我們排灣族的傳統領域所以就使用這個土地來講應該縣政府在"},{"start":9599.416,"end":9618.282,"text":"這個要種植西瓜之前應該請業者跟我們鄰近的部落做一個諮商同意權也就是落實原基法第21條的規定可以嗎是 我們會來努力好 那我就希望經濟部在能不能在兩週內提出我們是不是可以撤銷許可中止租業或非止租業的一個"},{"start":9620.663,"end":9639.949,"text":"你們的承諾 包委員因為這個權責還是在縣政府啦那我們會依照委員的意見趕快跟縣政府協調但是撤不撤銷可能還是要以縣政府這邊的意見為主我們會來努力 為登記土地的權責劃分希望能夠一個月內給本席報告 是 我們會來努力好 謝謝您好 謝謝接下來我們請蔡議員委員請做詢問"},{"start":9659.329,"end":9664.051,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請部長我們再請公共部長蔡委員好部長好"},{"start":9673.049,"end":9701.41,"text":"部長首先還是要問一下今天大家在關心的就是說整個關稅談判的進度現在到底會如何呢因為大家也都有看到說賴總統事實上在對外也說這個關稅朝向正面的方向在發展那大家還是期待說最後談判的進度那到底現在你們的評估狀況是怎樣的就像總統講的就是說"},{"start":9704.221,"end":9717.551,"text":"沒有涉及到匯率嘛這個總統講另外就是說關稅從暫定的這個20%往下降不疊加那這個部分是比較正面的方向在進行當中20%"},{"start":9721.119,"end":9738.182,"text":"餓死往下往下又不疊加對對對對那就很成功啊是那大家會期待啊所以說這是一個正面的方向是啊是啊這個聽起來那這一次的談判大概大家會給整個行政談判團隊會給會給予掌聲如果可以吵到這樣所以我們現在會期待喔"},{"start":9739.663,"end":9755.312,"text":"總結會議還沒有開當然當然但是但是部長既然我們這樣講大家會期待喔所以真的要努力喔是是是真的因為都講出口了嘛我們都講了但是大家就會覺得嗯那會是一個好的狀況那我想要再進一步問說那針對232條款呢"},{"start":9758.098,"end":9779.735,"text":"这两款主要跟我们牵扯比较大的就是主要是半导体的部分所以我们也会谈到一个比较好的条件那美国他也有一个想法如果你有去之前也有讲嘛如果你有去那边投资的话基本上是可以豁免那当然我们希望这个可以豁免的范围越大是越好的"},{"start":9779.995,"end":9806.609,"text":"我們半導體在美國投資目前是有的嘛我們包括台積電台積電已經有宣布了而且很多是讓台灣台灣本來就有在投資美國在半導體這一塊有這個也不是現在才叫半導體業去是以前就有投資了嘛對不對可是美國現在是要我們加碼投資4月2號之前台積電本來就有在美國有做投資了是啊本來就有了現在第一個廠也開始正式營運了是"},{"start":9808.05,"end":9832.868,"text":"所以如果有投資的話就可以朝向說會拿到更好的一個因為基本上從廠商的角度台積電一直講只要有訂單上的需求他就願意去投資而且就是說如果就是說他也要賺錢如果說有訂單沒賺錢也不可能去所以就是說要確保他有訂單而且可以賺到錢"},{"start":9833.629,"end":9841.342,"text":"好 但是部長我想台灣除了ICT產業之外事實上還是有其他的產業啦是尤其是傳統產業是那傳統產業事實上會被232條款衝擊很大喔"},{"start":9846.477,"end":9872.975,"text":"如果你这个钢铝钢铝目前还是50%钢铝产业也是台湾很重要的传统产业的一环因为它涉及到后端可能就是工具机所以现在大家都预估如果现在台湾整个外销在这一些ICT产业大概是会蓬勃发展而且外销订单会扩张但是相对的传统上在钢铝产业"},{"start":9873.835,"end":9894.001,"text":"大概會進入寒冬所以就是說整個科技產業蓬勃翻產但是傳統產業還是會被這一次的關稅然後232條款的影響那這個產業會受到衝擊那部長你身為經濟部長就針對不同的產業你要有不同的照顧那你針對其他的產業呢"},{"start":9895.314,"end":9919.955,"text":"報告委員所以我們為什麼這個特別預算裡面會編了這個460億那這460億基本上主要要支持的對象主要大概就是傳統性的產業跟這個中小微企業因為高科技產業基本上是相對而言是比較沒有受到這次關稅或是國際形勢的一些影響所以他們也比較不會用到這個460億對"},{"start":9921.897,"end":9949.572,"text":"那所以我們為什麼因為這個關稅的影響最重要還是那具體上461你要怎麼去協助這一些受到受到關稅影響的產業第一個他的訂單如果沒有訂單就慘了所以我們為什麼要保住他的訂單那保住他的訂單多元開拓市場他們去除了美國市場之外他還有去其他的地方要去參展我們給他補助甚至一設台灣館因為中小企業可能"},{"start":9950.132,"end":9979.332,"text":"没有办法做到这一点那我们也会把顾客引导到台湾来那这个是订单希望他不要中断另外一个是他的金流也不要中断所以雨天不收伞甚至还要撑更大的伞就是两个嘛一方面就是希望他们协助他们在国外找订单那协助他们在国外找订单这件事我跟部长稍微呼吁一下因为很多产业是跟我讲过去台湾在面对产业的时候往往"},{"start":9980.695,"end":9984.35,"text":"你看到他們越要去參加越大型的國際展"},{"start":9985.868,"end":10009.685,"text":"結果我們經濟部就會認為說你就有人家去參加大型的三展了所以反而對他們協助的力道反而變小事實上應該要反向要去做既然有人家要參加大型的你就要讓他去拚大大隻回來所以我們應該要站在說要怎麼讓他們可以去跟國際的企業競爭"},{"start":10011.246,"end":10028.312,"text":"而不是在國內斤斤計較說你這一家企業就已經本身有夠強了你不需要政府再去協助你做訂單這個觀念不能這樣所以我們是全面性的因為很感謝立法院給我們這樣的額度所以可以我們比較充裕"},{"start":10029.132,"end":10037.58,"text":"對於這個全面性的 461金額不少啊但是產業有這麼多種 他們大家如果要去拚國際競爭經濟部就是要給他們可以到位的協助 讓他們多多去拚拚他們的產品 讓國外的人可以接受這個是經濟部要去打拚的所以我們現在做法就是這樣子 沒有錯"},{"start":10055.782,"end":10069.611,"text":"那期待啦因為460億都已經編了可以執行了嘛那現在開始有不少產業已經在問我了那接下來要怎麼做因為確實他們現在看到的就是我剛講的光是鋼鋁50%"},{"start":10072.412,"end":10092.339,"text":"50%的關稅這個真的對國內這些鋼鋁的這些產業鏈他們的衝擊真的是很大所以我覺得部長你要靠近下鄉去跟這些傳統產業跟這些工具機器產業你自己去開工除了我自己之外的話我們事實上在北中南東已經成立了這個輔導團"},{"start":10094.73,"end":10115.133,"text":"工協會還有我們二十幾個法人全部把它集結起來然後分這個區域主動式的去拜會這些廠商看看他們需要真正的協助是什麼那我們就來 部長你要相信過去台灣有很多像這種工具局甚至像那種做馬達的我們家依舊有一家做馬達"},{"start":10115.854,"end":10144.095,"text":"他都是台灣的隱形冠軍欸是是是做那種一些反正在一些工具機一些做包膜的啦怎樣台灣都很強而且我們這個強是在於我們的產品是有創新的我們有辦法做出世界看起來我們的品質是好的但是我們遇到的關稅的衝擊的時候經濟部今天下場下去讓大家關心前兩天我還去馬手後第一期啊那個做地毯的那個"},{"start":10145.115,"end":10168.86,"text":"做得非常好 他還要加裝他知道我們有太舊換新的這個機械補助以後他就要趕快來申請因為他的確要買一個比較先進的機械所以部長這樣就對了下鄉然後去聽產業的心聲然後461的預算就直接讓他們可以感受到困難的時候進戶及時的救援然後馬上協助他們 好不好是是是好 謝謝好 非常的感謝"},{"start":10174.52,"end":10190.357,"text":"接下來我們請葉元之委員請做選擇主席好 麻煩請經濟部長我們再請工部長"},{"start":10197.956,"end":10223.108,"text":"月文好部長好那個回答應該是在10月24號的時候應該是之前有發文給經濟部希望經濟部在10月24號之前24吧提供一些那個地那現在是提供哪一些因為他有給我們一些條件那我們就按照這個條件哪些嘛提供哪些這個就不好不方便講是連這個都不能講"},{"start":10225.23,"end":10248.007,"text":"這個國人都討論成這樣了 我們這個政府是秘密怎麼那麼多沒有 因為要好 那你現在了解 回答但是我們的態度是這樣啦我們會提供比較多啦反正因為抉擇是在他們我們現在在質詢台上面問說到底有沒有提供 提供多少你沒有辦法回答然後說我們會提供比較多這個你覺得你這種回答有意義嗎"},{"start":10249.028,"end":10275.589,"text":"我們現在了解說經濟部有沒有認真去找地嘛然後你回答說我們比較多你現在一塊都講不出來台北市政府除了T10T、T18之外還提供T12然後還去看了那個南煙就是人家就是可以講一大堆啊你們這邊說我們提供比較多部長你來這邊這樣回答問題適合嗎好算了啦就大家可以看到你們經濟部的態度啦也有可能是沒有在找啦所以回答不出來啦有很積極啦那是什麼嗎提供哪一塊嘛"},{"start":10276.857,"end":10283.78,"text":"我們大概有超過了 可能會提供超過10個基地提供10個基地 那幾塊是回答比較有興趣的"},{"start":10284.799,"end":10308.662,"text":"我們還沒提供啊還沒提供 所以你要準備什麼時候提供23號23號 人家說24號以前 你23號不錯啦很積極啦 少一天顯然基進部對於要把揮打留在台灣也不是那麼積極啦如果我是你的話 我有一塊兩塊我趕快跟他講了啦跟他講說你不要走 我前面已經好幾塊跟你不錯囉我不會盤點了十幾塊在前一天給他啦"},{"start":10309.659,"end":10336.6,"text":"部長你的態度就讓大家看到政府到底對於有沒有把回答留下來的態度啦台北市政府真的比你積極很多啦我們是有跟他溝通啦好啦好啦沒關係我也不為難你可能你也不是很了解那我想請問一下能源的議題因為現在光電板問題很多包括之前水庫水庫的浮電光電板本來政府積極在推結果後來被發現說是不是會被對環境有影響結果進一步的態度好像就沒那麼積極了"},{"start":10337.601,"end":10345.731,"text":"改口講說地方政府沒核准就不會推感覺上我現在感覺啦現在不知道經濟部現在是不是沒有要推光點了"},{"start":10346.598,"end":10370.499,"text":"就是對光電來說是比較消極的這是光電部分還有風電因為我們了解風電現在陸基的風電很多都年限期限都到了嘛20年30年都陸續在到那地方都反而很激烈所以陸基的風電可能也會遭受阻力那我是不知道說經濟部你現在綠電這塊假設光電沒有積極在推風電也沒有要推的話你要用什麼能源來補綠電這塊"},{"start":10371.997,"end":10377.946,"text":"我們都積極在推啊有嗎 光電還有積極在推嗎當然那譬如說譬如說要積極推量在哪裡"},{"start":10378.82,"end":10403.383,"text":"屋頂型的我們就積極在推你要積極推在哪裡比如說現在水庫感覺你們也不會推了嘛然後因為光電以前很多弊案山頭可以整個山頭全部砍掉放那麼多光電板以後想必應該也比較不敢了還有很多問題現在可能會一些弊案變比較少那你要怎麼推光電"},{"start":10404.659,"end":10420.636,"text":"怎麼推就是還是持續的推啊怎麼推啊還有地嗎您剛才提到這個幣案有問題的部分就去處理嘛那現在我們有一個我是問說要怎麼推啦你現在積極推是口號啊我是問具體的做法啊我剛剛提到了就是說屋頂型的時候我們1000瓦會補出3000塊"},{"start":10423.799,"end":10450.458,"text":"所以你現在主力是放在屋頂型這個是一部分還有勒但是我們地面型或者是漁電共生我們也不會放棄啊我們會持續啊所以接下來就是會把重點放在屋頂跟漁電共生那你預計把這重點放在這兩塊光電可以成長多少可以成長多少還有太秀換新的部分就是有一些暗場它以前轉換效率比較差的我們可以換成新的所以可以成長多少大概評估"},{"start":10452.591,"end":10480.004,"text":"明年十一月我們還是希望可以達到多少二十幾個月這個還是我們的目標明年十一月目標不變對這是我們努力的方向那你們對那個水庫的浮動光電板的態度有變嗎就是說因為大家有一些誤解我們希望把這個誤解釐清以後是誤解嗎對對啊因為很多人認為說它會有汙染但實際上是不會啊那你為什麼你們要退縮咧你就講清楚就好啦對我們就是要講清楚那為什麼第一時間退縮"},{"start":10481.633,"end":10500.126,"text":"沒有啊 我們沒有退縮啊有啊 你們第一時間就在賴啊就在講說哎呀 那個是地方政府的事啊民進黨的還講說韓國瑜是同意的你講的態度就讓人家覺得那個東西有問題嘛不是不是 既有的程序本來就有地方政府的權責所以您的意思是說把它講清楚之後 您還會繼續推對 OK 好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":10509.912,"end":10512.155,"text":"接下來我們請廖宣祥委員請做巡檔好 謝謝主席 也要麻煩我們龔部長我們再請龔部長能源署長也可以陪一下可能會比較熟悉"},{"start":10529.221,"end":10542.48,"text":"部長我今天跟您討論一下就是上次7月的時候這個屏東交通外海太陽光電浮台試驗場域案的後續啦那我不是要跟你討論執行的東西好或不好而是後續的處理問題跟誠實的問題啦"},{"start":10544.783,"end":10573.429,"text":"經濟部那時候在7月多的時候有發新聞稿表示業者已經在颱風來之前已經拆除了光電板請問一下我們經濟部發這個新聞稿這件事情的時候是業者口頭跟我們說還是業者有提供一些客觀的一個資訊給我們經濟部是 這個有照片那事實上我們發這個新聞是說他的光電板已經都拆走了但他留在海上的是福台那是福台不是光電板"},{"start":10574.617,"end":10585.435,"text":"因為到現在目前為止我想包括當初有許多的委員都跟我們的經濟部要當初拆卸的照片或者是說現在光電板到底在哪裡那現在我們能源署有辦法提供嗎"},{"start":10586.696,"end":10607.399,"text":"我們可以請業者那些光電板業者收回去了他儲藏在他自己儲存的地方有提供給我們能源署嗎我們沒有因為對我們來講我們沒有需要他提供這個資料但是我們有現場的照片就是說他是福台他上面是沒有太陽光電板的那你們可以提供這照片吧"},{"start":10609.016,"end":10635.574,"text":"這個要我們來跟業者來索取因為當初社會討論很廣泛那一直懷疑說有沒有猜你們一直說有猜但是又沒有辦法提供照片所以後續我們經濟部應該可以提供我們來跟業者確認日期這是業者的資料那跟委員報告就是說當時是福台那後來受到風災吹到海上來吹到岸上來的我們蒐集到的也全部都是福台並沒有任何的"},{"start":10635.954,"end":10660.788,"text":"太陽光電比較重會沉那我想確認一下業者你們能不能去確認一下因為每一個光電板應該都有它的序號對不對光電板都有序號每一個序號所以它當初那個暗場的光電板也都有登錄嘛對不對序號是光電板出廠的時候都會有嘛那它建置在現場是哪些序號在現場其實這裡都追蹤的到嘛對不對"},{"start":10662.736,"end":10676.396,"text":"因為他現在收回去了所以他現場並沒有對 原本放在海上的嘛原本放在海上的就是他購買的他購買的太陽能板應該能夠追查到他說原本要放在海上的這些光電板的序號我們應該都要有才對"},{"start":10678.005,"end":10693.698,"text":"我們有辦法去做後續的集合確認一下他所說光電板放在哪一邊那些光電板的序號跟當初申請加東外海的這些光電板的序號去對一個集合確認這些光電板真的都有收起來在他現在所說的倉庫裡面這點做得到嗎"},{"start":10696.416,"end":10718.707,"text":"這個因為它是一個實驗計畫我們所以當時並沒有去登記它的序號是多少那這個我們可以跟業者來要求看看環境部一定有 台電也一定有應該是沒有啦因為它是試驗計畫它整個環境部就規範每一個太陽能板都必須要有序號你才能夠並聯接電啊"},{"start":10720.816,"end":10743.351,"text":"每一個出廠都有序號然後你要繳回匯金啊他這個所以 對不對所以你在哪裡這本來就是一套環境部那時候都一直在說明每一塊供電板一定都追蹤得到它在哪裡然後後續怎麼處置你現在跟我說序號找不到他這一個不是商業經營它是一個實驗計畫它本來實驗完成實驗計畫就不用序號嗎"},{"start":10745.352,"end":10764.979,"text":"實驗計畫就所有的太陽盲板那你怎麼追蹤這些實驗場的序號這些光電板後續要怎麼處理包括後續的回收這都是要靠序號來追蹤啊只要他業者不丟棄的話那你怎麼知道他有沒有丟棄你沒有序號你怎麼知道他有沒有丟棄所以我們有序號的意義就是說如果他有丟棄到外面"},{"start":10765.979,"end":10780.261,"text":"最重要的意義就是追蹤嘛對不對那既然我們現在國家有這個序號的一個制度那我們應該就可以靠我們的序號去追蹤當初應該在海上的光電板現在到底在哪邊他說在哪邊我們應該也可以去做一個集合這應該是非常簡單的一件事情"},{"start":10781.783,"end":10796.659,"text":"這個序號是我們如果查到它有丟棄置在任何一個地方我們可以從這一個序號去追蹤它的來源我剛剛講的你們能不能做到就是依照序號去查當初在海上的光電板現在到底在哪邊是不是業者有誠實的來做我們回報"},{"start":10797.62,"end":10814.544,"text":"可不可以去做後續的稽查因為他是試驗計畫我沒有登記他的需要但是我們可以來諮詢這些業者因為試驗計畫他本來試驗完成業者就要把所有的浮台跟光電板回收回他的工廠他如果有遺落在外的"},{"start":10814.904,"end":10828.888,"text":"我們就可以從那個需要去追蹤到哪裡依照這條線索去找出來 依照這條線索去找出來那包括我想確認一下這個福台計畫我們補助的金額是只有福台嗎還是整個計畫有沒有去把它做這個拆分"},{"start":10830.829,"end":10858.685,"text":"整個計畫是當然有浮台跟太陽能板而且他要在海上做對所以我有一個疑問假設現在的這些當初補助的經費裡面包含浮台包括光電板現在計畫終止了那這些光電板如果業者一去他他處使用的話這有沒有違法的一個問題所以我才要我們的能源署盡快的去追蹤這些能源這些光電板他現在到底在哪邊是跟委員報告他的計畫一個是環境污染的問題還沒有終止"},{"start":10859.025,"end":10886.528,"text":"一個是我們補助的問題補助的東西他就只能在這邊用不能夠拿到其他場域用這是絕對的規範這絕對沒有錯吧我們沒有補助他去購置這些東西你就是整個計畫包含嘛好不好沒關係時間到了也不要再用大家太多的時間就依照序號去做這兩件事情去追蹤他的目前的最終的流向在哪確認他到底有沒有一致他的暗場使用好不好以上兩點再麻煩"},{"start":10888.393,"end":10908.259,"text":"好 謝謝接下來我們請柯資恩委員請做詢問謝謝主席 我們是不是請部長跟能源署長我們請兩位"},{"start":10916.301,"end":10932.081,"text":"各位好部长跟署长好我想回到我们大树河山里的光电厂这当初这个空拍图震惊全国目前来说的话因为我们第二案场已经是完全是撤掉它的施工许可第一呢"},{"start":10933.786,"end":10953.981,"text":"包委員 第一案場因為它是合法設置但它中間有違規那所以我們違規的部分我們要叫它拆除違規的部分而且它已經完工了所以你們會不會給它發給它電業執照會不會發會 它第一期是合法設置的第二期我們不會發我知道 第一期你們什麼時候發我們"},{"start":10958.735,"end":10985.365,"text":"他有部分違規你們拆除啊對你第一期什麼時候發他現在還沒有申請所以說你們他申請的話你們會再看然後你們如果說他完全合格你們會發對我還是要提醒喔因為他是完全根據舊法對不對根據舊法你根據新法位於三坡地面積達到規模像是15公頃以上或者是裝置流量加2萬的千瓦以上需要我們河山是舊案但是你看看他案場大概是51公頃喔"},{"start":10986.665,"end":11015.604,"text":"裝置流量是7萬的這個千瓦你如果沒有經過你認為如果你要給它核發的話你是不是要再一次環評因為每一個磁磚地球都不一樣當年是因為我們2019年為了要設置這麼大的一個所謂的綠電你說實在的你沒有經過環評有那時空背景我們都不同意那現在已經發生這麼多的事情距離我們的這個村莊只有100公尺大家都非常關切所以嗨嗨你要發這個執照之前你還要不要再經過一次環評"},{"start":11017.626,"end":11038.417,"text":"要不要包委員他如果重新提出申請我們會就法令重新來檢視剛才委員指教的新舊法我們也會在法律上重新看所以你現在不敢承諾到底會不會再經過環評我們要做法律上的分析因為民眾申請他有他一定了解所以要不要再經過環評你們目前是未確定"},{"start":11038.937,"end":11047.84,"text":"我們會再來就法律上證個因為他這個如果要發執照也不只環評一件事我們會把整個所以說他不會像是完所以目前聽起來不會像是像過去就法你只要是一切就你們那時候的法規可以你就發給執照這次還會做全面的一個來做討論是這樣沒有錯吧"},{"start":11059.343,"end":11071.983,"text":"但是每個案其實我們都會這樣做因為目前為止每個人都非常關切這個電板的問題你們在2030年的時候能源署有告訴我們說你們可能光電的設置要到31.2GW沒有錯嗎目前為止這個目標還是嗎"},{"start":11073.862,"end":11096.577,"text":"是的 這個是我們努力的目標那我們希望能夠抓到31.2Gbps2035部長你知道嗎2035可能要到31.2Gbps那就大概就是我們所謂的1692個大安森林公園這麼多我們先來看看有沒有辦法土地怎麼找這都是非常重要的一個問題我們先來看一下到2025距離目前只有多久時間到2030年你要31.2Gbps現在是2025"},{"start":11100.64,"end":11122.335,"text":"到8月的時候呢你的容量目前為止僅15.02距離我們2030的目標還有16GW所以有這樣子一個落差這是一個你們很大的落差我們先不要看別的光是今年1到8月我們僅增加0.74跟去年比起來去年大概是兩個GW那怎麼辦你們的目標你們的產能一個個在往後你們目標設這麼多到目前5年之後"},{"start":11130.781,"end":11139.778,"text":"一般業者認為你到20就差不多了你把他定在30有可能嗎署長你要不要做滾動式的修正你要不要做修正"},{"start":11140.717,"end":11167.749,"text":"是這是我們的目標那我們會努力來達成我覺得像目前講署長跟部長五年後可能你們都不在其位可是呢你們如果用我們這些數據來告訴我們的話都是告訴我們說你們是目標目標永遠都在期望未來的一個目標我覺得這對我個人來說部長你同意吧這對我們未來說這個其實不是太公平的你應該是滾動式的不斷告訴我們現在已經告訴你今年跟去年比就是比較少那未來該怎麼辦是不是"},{"start":11169.75,"end":11188.816,"text":"包委員我們還是會把這個目標當作目標來努力但是包委員就是說事實上還有另外一個方式就是太秀換新的部分因為過去的轉換效率大概只有十出頭十幾而已現在可能都可以做到三十所以它這個會是原來的超過一倍以上"},{"start":11189.176,"end":11200.703,"text":"還有就是你剛剛說到的屋頂屋頂你的誘因我覺得你可以再增強因為屋頂目前看起來比陸域跟水域來說應該是比較是OK大家接受的比較高嘛你可以從這個角度來嘛對不對還有最後一個部分啦因為光電板目前嘛你那時候在公開承諾說萬一說你這個水庫光電板如果有任何疑義的話你會暫緩"},{"start":11212.429,"end":11236.207,"text":"那個時候你是在對於台南地區這個樣的承諾是對於全國嗎全國萬一說地方政府有異議的話目前來說都是暫緩嗎還是只針對台南這個SOP本來是適用於全台南全國嘛 不是只有在台南嘛對不對 而且我覺得你要定立標準你不要把很多的問題全部留給地方政府那個整個標準來說中央就應該負起這個角色嘛好不好"},{"start":11236.927,"end":11261.173,"text":"所以說呢光電板的我的問題就是你的滾動性的修正還有你要給明確的目標然後呢你告訴我說2035要給我1692個大安森林公園土地哪裡來這是要跨部會來否則的話光是一個目標然後告訴我目標我們人都不在了你還在一個目標你讓下面一任怎麼辦永續環境的經營是每一個人現場都需要有角色跟責任的好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":11267.918,"end":11288.164,"text":"接下来我们请高金树梅委员请做询答谢谢赵伟大家辛苦了部长想上洗手间了是吧想休息一下是吧"},{"start":11289.994,"end":11296.518,"text":"等你 等你质询好 那就是有请部长我们再请工部长谢谢"},{"start":11320.254,"end":11346.361,"text":"部长 卓院长他说10月底台美经贸谈判会达成协议今天已经是10月22号10月就已经要到底了这个协议的内容到底是什么呢是不是如我抛泡应上面看的赖金德总统所说的要降税率不叠加而且232条款的相关税金也能够得到最惠国的待遇是这样吗"},{"start":11346.781,"end":11360.161,"text":"你們能不能更具體的簡短的說明一下是或不是這個是都是目標你不要再講目標了是或不是還是到目前為止它還是一個秘密"},{"start":11361.448,"end":11376.987,"text":"這是我們努力的目標跟方向總統都已經說了啊不疊加降稅率啊它不是目標它只是已經說了你後面當然是目標但是我想請問10月底已經到了會不會是"},{"start":11378.194,"end":11404.454,"text":"你认为会不会是你要不要是不是 时间上我没有办法你要不要是我们努力的方向是这三项没有错对 降税不叠加你这样子的回应大家都清楚知道了那我们也不抱很大的期待那部长你也曾经说过要复制所谓的类科学园区要到美国是这样子吗类科学园区应该是我是"},{"start":11405.359,"end":11422.014,"text":"跟著人家講不是我講那所以這新聞不對樂於友邦分享經驗到美國設類科學園區分享經驗就是我們的產業群聚那這句話不是你講的主要我的意思是講它像是類科學園區這樣你不是這樣認為產業群聚"},{"start":11424.909,"end":11451.201,"text":"你不是這樣認為所以你不認為它是類科學園區所以這個是媒體誇大了是吧如果要把它解釋成類科學園區我也沒有反對好那10月17號我們看一下副總統蕭美琴她在國際媒體專訪的時候她說我們已經承諾在美國進行投資不僅僅是台積電還包括廣大的生態系其他部分從供應商到設計商"},{"start":11452.581,"end":11469.122,"text":"乃至其他晶片制造公司而肖副总统所说的那个广大的半导体制造生态系和您刚刚所谓所说的要复制所谓的类科学源去到美国这是同一件事情吗"},{"start":11470.388,"end":11498.021,"text":"報告委員事實上生態系比這個科學園區裡面做的事情還要大是不是同一件事情不是 範圍不一樣為什麼範圍不一樣因為科學園區基本上只有生產製造而已但是生態體系包括了剛剛提到的研發開始然後還有它的材料商 設備商甚至於到它下游的廠商跟客戶這個就是整個才是一個生態體系部長 不要在這邊再胡說八道好啦 不管你說的複製"},{"start":11499.461,"end":11525.269,"text":"不管你說的複製類科學園區或者是副總統所說的投資廣大的半導體製造生態系你們你要負責任的說因為你是經濟部長了你們有沒有估算投資的金額那我要講的是是不是傳說中美國勒索我們的那一筆數千億美元的金額報告委員因為廠商的投資還是要廠商才能夠決定"},{"start":11526.109,"end":11545.934,"text":"那你經濟部沒有想要去預估嗎你那麼刻意不負責任的說不預估嗎所以部長我要跟您說的是不管你說的類科學園區或副總統他說的廣大的半導體製造生態系主要的產業主力的產業就是半導體產業跟資通產業"},{"start":11549.275,"end":11565.251,"text":"我相信你很清楚在場的委員們都很清楚可能有絕大部分的我們廣大的百姓不知道但是我們清楚的了解兩個產業佔台灣出口的七成而這七成以今年來說就是3500億"},{"start":11567.873,"end":11593.72,"text":"而七成的出口產業複製到美國生產以後這七成的出口產業在台灣就從此被消滅了當然不會啊當然不會啊你不要說不會你到時候離開了台灣誰負責任你不要說你不要說不會大家都清楚知道好 而且你不要在這邊跟我們別講好不好因為他已經宣布11個廠了這是實際的事實啊"},{"start":11597.639,"end":11610.689,"text":"部長 我們中華民國的政府沒有做政策的決定這些人會過去嗎 不要在這邊再說了而我們台灣另外三層的傳統產業大家一直在講的傳統產業面對著美國的關稅壓力"},{"start":11614.932,"end":11622.215,"text":"而我們政府又要花人民的納稅前460億要去扶持他們這460億足夠嗎你看一下捷安特自行車這麼樣優質的產業美國他就予取予求隨意的扣押他們的產品而我們的傳統產業還會有生存的空間嗎我再強調一次半導體和支通產品佔台灣出口的七成"},{"start":11644.685,"end":11658.068,"text":"而這期程就是3500億一旦複製到美國之後台灣的高科技產業就空通化了你不要說不會而台灣產業在美國的關稅衝擊之下情況這麼險惡現在就算如賴清德總統他說的"},{"start":11665.13,"end":11678.823,"text":"爭取到更低的關稅又有什麼用根本就於師無補了嘛現在已經時間到了我的結論就是政府在我們的關稅談判之中簡直就是喪權辱國謝謝我們高經委員的詢問"},{"start":11686.606,"end":11697.246,"text":"謝謝宮部長我們現在因為中午時間我們不休息我們延長會開到今天的議程處理完畢那我們現在休息三分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":11883.766,"end":11909.974,"text":"好 我們繼續開會來 請各位官員請各位官員請坐好好 接下來我們繼續開會我們現在請賴會委員請做詢答謝謝主席有請經濟部部長跟能源署署長我們請兩位 謝謝"},{"start":11917.219,"end":11943.277,"text":"賴委員好是 那個兩位好這一次丹納斯颱風讓我深刻的體會到就是說極端氣候的一個那個常態性那在災後的一個復原其實已經不再是修補了我們希望就是說基礎建設可以前面的一個提升部長在這裡特別跟你探討就是說這個187億就是韌性的這個"},{"start":11944.318,"end":11950.004,"text":"任性的一個經費裡頭丹納斯颱風丹納斯颱風的特別預算187億就是600億裡頭你分配到187億那你其中有8億是給能源署嘛這裡我想請教署長這個8億的錢那你用在什麼地方"},{"start":11967.74,"end":11984.742,"text":"在這裡我要特別跟你提醒到一個三個重點就是關鍵性的一個產業電纜韌性的優先的一個試做這一段還有就是說智慧儲能還有加強式移動式的電源的一個建置不知道你準備到什麼樣的一個"},{"start":11986.317,"end":12009.395,"text":"是 我们那个8亿是要做定制型的这样的储能设备那我们主要是跟这些目前我们的办法已经公告了那么可以来提出有兴趣的业者就可以来提出申请那另外那个我们部长也特别指示就是说我们会主动出击也就是说"},{"start":12009.815,"end":12025.948,"text":"我們對幾個比較有需要這種定制型燃料電池的廠商像在各個工業區那我們會去主觀的做主動做說明那另外我們還有一筆預算除了這個8A以外我們還有一筆預算是做微電網"},{"start":12026.949,"end":12045.188,"text":"那做微电网的那这个办法我们也正在遇到好 署长这显然你已经准备好了可是你针对的就是在上一周我跟台电的总经理特别有提到了灾后的一个重建我们希望强化这个电缆的一个抗灾的一个韧性那"},{"start":12046.365,"end":12059.554,"text":"有沒有要優先做就像我們這幾個那個區域在當然是颱風受創的這麼嚴重就是說不管是台南不管是嘉義這這個地方你有沒有要優先施作呢"},{"start":12061.274,"end":12079.296,"text":"包委員 這個台電的部分它是有九個示範場對但是我們有盤點過大概所謂的孤島裡面其中大概有53個他們是有這樣的需求而且很希望這樣做那我們會從聯署還有其他的部分"},{"start":12080.037,"end":12107.93,"text":"去满足这五十几个这个丹纳斯台风这个是一个专款专案我们受创的那个地方是最严重的为什么没有从我们这个地方开始先做呢这个倒是我特别疑问的报告委员这个议题我们有跟台南市政府开过会市长都亲自主持那也来协调一些教育局等等的一些单位一起来找位置"},{"start":12108.77,"end":12130.948,"text":"因為畢竟所以有優先要做嘛對不對對事實上有在處理中那就是說我還特別在這裡提到了就是說你的韌性儲能的一個設備你必須要放在就是書上你的避難所啦你的避難所你要放在學校的體育館還是社區的活動中心甚至安置的一個中心是不是你們有一個完整的一個準備呢"},{"start":12131.568,"end":12141.808,"text":"是 就是因為要安放在學校的這個場域我們希望是說因為要結合學校的那個太陽能"},{"start":12144.859,"end":12163.716,"text":"但是安置的地方可能又是在活动中心所以如果能找到学校跟安置的活动中心是结合在周边的话那是最好的位置所以这个位置的选取是非常重要的一件事那就是地方政府来建议你们我们中央来做在这里我特别请教部长就是说你的整体"},{"start":12164.316,"end":12169.242,"text":"在做災後的韌性的一個提升是不是應該納入新科技新能源那我們比照就是說我講一個幻例給你聽就日本的那個河島河島的一個河災湖島的一個河災以後其實他們就轉型了轉型就是新能源新能源的一個建制"},{"start":12184.359,"end":12212.891,"text":"這個我不知道部長對這個議題了解多少可以不可以做就是說我在這裡特別點到了你的新能源你的新科技是什麼樣為主題巴偉園如果是氫能源的話我們現在在高雄的部分有一個嘉青站已經有了但是就要巴士進來可以就是示範性的運營這個部分那至於就是說您剛才這邊看到的是燃料電池的部分是"},{"start":12214.872,"end":12234.945,"text":"這個現在還叫做灰氫啦就是說利用LNG轉換成氫然後利用這個燃料電池來發電這就是剛剛講的那個定制型的這個示範性的一些實驗這也要推動好 部長顯然你對這個議題是非常的深入了解的我們希望多增加多增加這樣子的一個"},{"start":12244.751,"end":12270.264,"text":"那事後我希望就是說可以得到你更多的一個資料不管是充電室就移動式充電室那是不是用光除那個氫能的一個發電系統我希望有這一方面的一個資料跟本席做參考然後是不是優先在我們台南建置怎麼樣的一個那個就是在災後的一個儲備那個儲備能量的地方好不好好謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":12277.645,"end":12278.247,"text":"接下來我們請吳宗憲委員請做詢談 謝謝"},{"start":12285.126,"end":12310.763,"text":"麻煩水利署署長有來嗎今天我們請水利署同時我會跟那個部長說因為部長我剛剛聽你跟高津樹梅的回答有關台積電的部分那部長我們請一起沒關係部長不用部長坐著就好這部分我要講一個啦我小老百姓啦民進黨告訴我台積電的存在是護國深山因為台積電對於世界的重要性所以是我們戰略上面的護國深山當初他這樣跟我講今天送出去又跟我說沒事"},{"start":12311.684,"end":12336.87,"text":"所以我是老百姓我到底要聽誰的第二個美國也講得很清楚嘛讓台積電到美國去投資讓一些產能到美國他也是為了要降低萬一台海有事情的時候對美國經濟的衝擊嘛那他們也這樣講啊我們的政府跟我們說不是這樣那我要聽誰的誰講的是真的這是我小老百姓的心聲所以部長您剛跟高金這樣回答我在旁邊聽"},{"start":12338.59,"end":12359.819,"text":"當然您是專家啦但是同一個事情以前告訴我的跟今天告訴我的不一樣那我就會懷疑到底以前民進黨跟我說的是真的還是今天民進黨跟我說的是真的第二個美國政府那樣講跟台灣的政府講的又不一樣又彼此矛盾依據最基本的人類邏輯啦我總是要知道哪一個對哪一個錯所以啊"},{"start":12360.953,"end":12381.611,"text":"不要為了官位來騙我們人民這是我剛聽完高津素梅跟您的對話之後我的想法那個水路署長我現在請教一個問題就是這幾天宜蘭那邊雨下很大我有看到發現一個頭城外澳到接天宮那個地方的道路"},{"start":12382.492,"end":12404.648,"text":"那個又再淹水了那我要講今年7月的時候那邊曾經有淹水達到1公尺那我想救災防災勝於救災這個是政府一直來告訴我們的那這個地方的淹水也不是今天才有那我想請問一下對於這個頭城外要這個部分呢你們是不是有所作為已經淹好多次了這邊"},{"start":12407.898,"end":12435.354,"text":"因為我不曉得委員所談的具體位置在哪一邊好 那我現在跟你講我以為說你們多少會知道一點它是在那個外澳通往接天宮的那個道路上面那你們稍微去了解一下在去年 在今年的7月27號那個當天其實淹水曾經進入到一級警戒那淹水在那個濱海路二段一巷往接天宮的寒洞曾經積水達到1公尺我不知道委員 是"},{"start":12435.914,"end":12453.302,"text":"那個我們經過初步了解那邊都是屬於縣政府管理的區域排水那這一個部分我們會來主動跟縣政府這邊共同來合作那你可以承諾我說你會這個部分你們會趕快積極來處理嗎是 我們會來跟縣政府來合作好 謝謝今天我要的就是你的這個承諾是"},{"start":12454.423,"end":12472.007,"text":"那我想治水這個其實是一個大事情嘛有時候也不是地方政府一個人就搞了定一定需要中央我們平常經常講是這樣所以很多治水的經費其實是在中央所以還是要中央麻煩我們不能說地方很急民眾很急地方很急結果中央覺得不急那就不好啦好不好"},{"start":12472.987,"end":12488.613,"text":"這個麻煩您那再來我想請問一下行政院在2023年3月的時候有核定的那個那個蘇澳溪的分洪工程計畫那我知道這個計畫是那個圓山子分洪之後的第二個那種大型的那個分洪隧道"},{"start":12489.694,"end":12510.092,"text":"署長您知道吧我知道好 謝謝那我想請問一下因為這個計畫它在修改後在今年初就已經送到行政院去審查了但到現在10月底還沒有下文雖然署長您不是院長但是我想請問一下這個到底是怎麼回事因為一再拖下去會造成"},{"start":12510.752,"end":12538.504,"text":"成本的往上提通膨的問題 物價的問題會不會搞到最後變成是又沒有錢做了所以署長您知不知道為什麼會卡在行政院那邊是 報告委員這個案件因為本來的整體經費是54億元後來因為整體物價的調整到75.68現在變成75億元因為大幅增加21億元那這個期間當然還有碰到很多的整個預算調整的問題"},{"start":12539.324,"end":12566.866,"text":"所以院裡面現在正在進行相關的審理工作那我們已經報出去了我也知道漲了20億元但是今年初已經那個修改後的已經送過去行政送過去了那這個部分因為我有看到雲林縣它其實它那個楷米颱風之後它也有一個治水的計畫而且它的費用是16億4千多萬在雲林嘛那"},{"start":12567.586,"end":12589.904,"text":"在九月的時候你們就已經就已經都完成了對不對我想這個計畫您知道嘛是 我們開了以後我的意思就是說因為同樣是水利署轄下的防洪跟分洪工程那既然雲林在風災後馬上就核定而且啟動補助的工程那因為但是宜蘭的這個卻上去了九個多月所以您"},{"start":12590.905,"end":12613.605,"text":"您可不可以幫我們一個忙幫宜蘭人一個忙親自去跟行政院協調一下看可不可以讓我們宜蘭的這個案子緊述通過組長可以嗎包委這也是我們努力的方向我們會來做這個事情就是我還是希望這樣我們讓每一個宜蘭人還有經過宜蘭的人可以安全我想這個才是最重要"},{"start":12614.346,"end":12630.377,"text":"因為我想說我們都記得很久以前那個15年前大概到15年前的昨天其實我不知道你記不記得就是那個梅姬颱風其實曾經有一輛車掉到海裡去到現在我們都還找不到那輛車那那個其實很可怕而且是15年前的昨天"},{"start":12630.777,"end":12654.243,"text":"大家都還歷歷在目所以是不是說我們還是把治水這件事情做好然後保護每個人的安全那我最後我希望您在兩個月內給我幾個回復我幾個問題好嗎來第一個水利署可不可以比照中央補助其他縣市的重大治水工程的模式推動投誠外澳周邊防洪跟治水計畫這第一個問題"},{"start":12655.703,"end":12677.296,"text":"第二個問題水利署有沒有已經針對了宜蘭縣淹水熱點完成整體的盤點那第三個問題有沒有具體的整治期程那我希望這幾個都是很重要的議題那我想麻煩貴署在兩個月內給我回覆這三個問題好不好非常謝謝委員我們會來努力好的好的謝謝署長謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":12679.017,"end":12690.625,"text":"好 那我們請相關主管將剛剛委員所說的一時間來說明清楚 謝謝接下來我們請李昆城委員請做詢問謝謝主席 我們請工部長我們再請工部長"},{"start":12707.925,"end":12727.428,"text":"李委員好部長好 現在大家很關心到底輝達到底要花落台灣的哪裡那我請問一下這個目前輝達跟新進部或是跟台北市政府有沒有定一個期限在這個期限必須要確定在哪裡 有沒有"},{"start":12729.225,"end":12741.616,"text":"輝達只是跟我們講說希望我們在10月24號之前可以提供他但是有正式新聞給你們嗎有有有有正式新聞所以他是說10月24號之前希望能夠確定在哪裡"},{"start":12742.145,"end":12771.451,"text":"不是確定在哪裡所以提供他可能如果十七十八沒有談下來的話可能的備案的基地那他們會啟動就是除了十七十八之外就會開始所以不是說10月24號沒有確定之後他就要離開台灣了不是不是他們會留在台灣會留在台灣有確定嗎有確定一定會留在台灣嗎否則他就不用叫我們找備案找備案對啊然後我問一下找備案有沒有新北市的備案我們會提供有沒有提供啊"},{"start":12772.436,"end":12790.764,"text":"會提供是提供了沒啊還沒有啊23號他說24號之前嘛24號之前如果24號之前沒有在17 18的話他就要找備案了對這有確定了那所以你找的備案裡面會提供這個新北市就對了會包括來新北市你有看中哪裡"},{"start":12793.545,"end":12816.395,"text":"我關心啊 我在新北市就算不在我的三重 我三重沒有地了嘛那新北市在哪裡 在林口 還在哪裡大家都關心嘛 比較合適的比如說三公頃 然後是比較適合它的一個通過大樓的部分那你應該是有準備好了嘛就是說如果到滴答24號沒有的話 你就要提供備案給輝達了嘛對不對大致上有 對啊那有沒有 新北市有嘛對不對 對啊在哪裡要幾個啦 幾個"},{"start":12822.185,"end":12845.15,"text":"新北市提供幾個地方他們這個 輝達認為還是保密給他們因為如果給他們不是 我沒有問你地點了嘛我是說新北市提供幾個給他參考不是 因為如果我們這個也不能講喔對 我們公開以後 那輝達沒選他沒有沒有 所以我沒有說地點啦我說提供幾個給他啦兩個 三個 還是一個我可能要回去check一下這個這麼重要 很多"},{"start":12848.018,"end":12854.054,"text":"我說總totally總totally有多少我們會提供超過10個提供超過10個我們的態度是這樣 回答"},{"start":12857.113,"end":12882.822,"text":"他留在台灣這重點對對對那對我們來講的話事實上每一關基地我們供應沒有沒有我在台北市都是第一名也在爭取那我們新北也是在爭取啊所以我是問說那新北你提供幾個嗎只要我們提供的我們經濟部認為都是第一名都是最好的只是說輝達他有他的這個考量我們也尊重那17 18有解嗎這個我就不知道了你不知道"},{"start":12884.037,"end":12913.107,"text":"所以這個是地方政府的事情嘛 跟經濟部沒有關係經濟部只負責說17 18沒有要提供備案給 給回答就對了好那再請教一下這一個部長齁這個昨天總統有講這個好消息有關關稅的啦他說這一個經貿的談判呢會有很好的進展所以呢會降低暫行關稅20%而且不疊加232條例相關的這個關稅朝最惠國待遇的方向努力"},{"start":12914.127,"end":12936.637,"text":"都正確吧對我們是往這個方向來努力沒有錯不是啊那有沒有確定啊因為總統我看他是講的很有信心啊是不是已經大概確定了不是你要有最後的這個總結會議以後才是算確定對那現在都是一個努力的方向那現在就這個談判如果是進度是百分之百的話那現在到底有幾%80%還是90%應該"},{"start":12939.608,"end":12952.049,"text":"差不多90%了到90%了對對對就是技術性的談判大致上那你應該都確定了嘛但是沒有那我就以總統講的為準因為到90%因為接下來就是細節了對不對"},{"start":12953.547,"end":12980.707,"text":"接下來就是要總結會議所以大概就是總統講的這個方向嘛 對不對那這樣是好消息啊是 我們努力啦 我們努力好 那最後 主席那個我上禮拜有問這個國防部 顧部長就是說啊這個烏克蘭總統卓恩斯基他有講到說我們有這一個台灣的廠商他說是有提供不曉得是什麼樣的零件"},{"start":12981.788,"end":12995.374,"text":"然後呢給俄羅斯然後給他們做成的這個飛彈然後國防部說要跟你們經濟部瞭解後來有瞭解嗎有嗎我請那個我們貿易署有沒有這件事情因為這很嚴重因為這是總統親自講的喔"},{"start":12998.414,"end":13021.176,"text":"烏克蘭總統卓恩斯基他親自講的有沒有去調查 這很嚴重耶那顧部長說會跟你們討論有沒有 沒有同仁跟我講國防部還沒有跟我們聯絡這個不行這樣子我覺得你要把這件事情當作一個很嚴重的事情來看那我們主動跟他聯絡 跟國防部聯絡好了對啊 這件事情一個禮拜給我一個結果好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":13027.079,"end":13048.98,"text":"好 我們接下來請錫富奎委員質詢謝謝主席 有請我們經濟部長 水利署林署長 還有台電曾董事長曾董事長薛委員好 部長好"},{"start":13049.884,"end":13073.024,"text":"部長我想賴總統前天在一個小水利論壇有提到2030年中央要投入9000億元帶動民間的投資4兆元推動再生能源跟綠色基礎建設部長知道這個事情嗎我有看到書面那部長我想部長你在擔任秘書長任內知道屏東有一個很重要的案子大潮州人工湖"},{"start":13073.7,"end":13093.961,"text":"那这个案子去年底被国会退回到经济部修正到目前为止一年的好像还没有送出经济部那问题出在哪里报告委员这个案件在去年六月送行政院那在年底的时候有请那个县政府要来做相关的环境影响的一个差异分析以后"},{"start":13094.642,"end":13120.451,"text":"然後院在這邊再來受理這個案件其實我們針對這個案件我們認為是有效益的所以有請縣政府要共同合作我們很樂觀其成對 我想這個大潮州人工湖是全台唯一也是東南亞最大的一個人工補助湖它效果很好對 它具有洪水的一個減災的效果還有可以涵養地下水最重要也是我們未來這個水資源很重要的一個供應的一個系統那"},{"start":13122.586,"end":13126.153,"text":"鄭董事長你最近有去看過嗎大嫂說我有去過兩次"},{"start":13128.907,"end":13154.828,"text":"对于这个水利发电有没有空间可以发展这个水利发电的案子这个应该是做微水利就是说它基本上是一个有水量但是没有水头的水利设施所以我们大概只能做微水利那其实有很多学者专家有给我们建议那比方说那个丁董事长丁测试董事长我想委员应该也熟那我们如果可以做我们来做主要是水权的主管机关跟台电来合作会比较方便"},{"start":13155.387,"end":13178.504,"text":"我想這個都是我們可以多面向來評估尤其我們現在水跟電都是我們很重要的一個資源來源聽起來評估說比竹子門的效益還更大應該要這樣講就是說現在我們有很多就是有水量有水量流動的地方如果有一些適當的微水力設施它確實是有發電的潛力"},{"start":13180.08,"end":13194.842,"text":"在這邊我還是要特別再拜託部長這個案子我們要加快推動這個我們從好幾任的縣長一直講到現在那尤其我們第一期這個發揮了很大的效益我們期待第二期繼續來努力我聽這個案子能不能加快進行"},{"start":13196.803,"end":13213.553,"text":"主要是開發這個人工湖才要做環評所以我們會來跟縣政府一起努力好 那我想我們還是要幫屏東鄉親請命一下 部長我們這個自來水普及率到目前只有72%遠低於全國的平均值"},{"start":13214.073,"end":13231.529,"text":"那周縣長也上次在這個我們小琉球的時候也感謝李董事長這個小琉球的這個5000噸的配水站做好之後我想小琉球不會有缺水的問題但是我們還是要提醒權限的部分這個普及率能不能再加快速度一下董事長"},{"start":13234.999,"end":13245.195,"text":"謝謝委員指導 那整個屏東縣的供水普及率的部分 我們屏東氣處這邊還有我們配合水利署會積極來爭取無災水地區的一個改善計畫"},{"start":13246.823,"end":13267.652,"text":"那會加速一些沿管的工程 那至於整個平溶線裡面的一些強化供水韌性的部分 包括我們管線更新或是說有些水壓比較低的地區 我們可能會來行密合適的地點來興建一些配水設施 配水池或是增加一些加壓設備 讓整個"},{"start":13268.471,"end":13289.5,"text":"屏東區域的供水可以更穩定的對 董事長這個水源的部分要優先先找因為你們如果水源沒有先找到這邊要增加普及率也是一個大問題是 這我想應該同步要去進行找這個水源的部分對 我們現在屏東縣主要的供水水源是牡丹水庫還有一些林邊湖流水跟一些地下水"},{"start":13290.02,"end":13309.514,"text":"那如果有地下水可以開發的話如果水質OK的話我們會汲取所以未來也可以請台塘吳董事長來幫忙有有有我們有跟台塘他們的管理處有幾個水井如果可以的話我們希望能夠提供給我們作為民生的一個水源"},{"start":13310.094,"end":13334.369,"text":"好 謝謝我想部長最近監察院有特別提到太陽光電他們有一個報告對於太陽光電生設的一個過程存在行政程序不透明審查標準不一還有地方勢力介入的一個問題甚至有很多的外資因為這樣的壓力退出了臺灣市場部長針對這個部分我們經濟部對於未來的能源政策有什麼看法"},{"start":13335.034,"end":13359.612,"text":"是 我請那個署長我們已經針對那幾項事實上已經有一些因應的做法我是不是請署長緊要的跟委員做報告是 有關就是說太陽光電有些弊案我們目前已經跟廉政署成立一個廉政平台那也邀請法務部跟高檢署一起來參加那至於地方所涉及的各個部門因為它有專業的執掌"},{"start":13361.013,"end":13382.405,"text":"那所以在面對不同的申請的狀況的時候他會面對不同的這個條件那我們為了協和目前我們是固定對光電比較多的台南嘉義高雄屏東這四個縣市我們是隔週每週就會找兩個縣市來就一定的申請案件來做討論來協助他們加速完成"},{"start":13383.149,"end":13397.316,"text":"當然部長我們支持這個有不法一定要嚴辦但是針對合法申請的業者也應該要給予保障那尤其有些案子都已經申請很久了這個這個月托為了我們對於我們臺灣的能源我們也擔心不夠這個真的是要審慎來面對這樣一個問題好不好部長謝謝好謝謝好我們接下來請羅廷偉委員質詢"},{"start":13418.186,"end":13443.392,"text":"好謝謝主席有請部長國務部長水利署署長署長好我先請問一下喔部長剛剛大家在討論這個揮打然後說這個17 18如果沒拿到的話24號前要繳交備案嘛對不對那您有準備大概10多個備案請問一下那我也關心一下台中有沒有備案"},{"start":13445.218,"end":13469.84,"text":"我可能要查一下台中就要查一下 新北不用查直接就回答有台中有沒有 可不可以請同仁調一下資料我們是有去問地方政府 如果地方政府有回饋一些給我們的話 我們就會把它你有沒有印象台中有啦 我可能要回去查一下私底下再跟您報告私底下跟我報告 好 我多久可以接到你的訊息"},{"start":13471.653,"end":13477.259,"text":"一個小時24號之前24號之前你是通知揮打還是通知我"},{"start":13478.783,"end":13508.044,"text":"不是吧一兩個小時就告訴我台中有沒有備案這樣就好好不好沒有我要積極的去催促地方政府配合啊不是24號通知我我不重要回答比較重要啊可以嗎盡快盡快好好謝謝那第二個要在這邊喔也要拜託水利署啦水利署其實我在上一個預算會期我有特別關注我們台中有關於柳川市期的這一個預算請問一下明年度有沒有編列啊"},{"start":13508.82,"end":13530.409,"text":"有 這個已經列在我們下一期預算從115年度開始會來做一些這個納入來做檢討我想也跟部長報告柳川是一期 二期 三期其實都做得滿漂亮的啦那也感謝經濟部在幫忙協助那所以三期做完民眾都很期待四期啊"},{"start":13530.809,"end":13548.044,"text":"所以在去年是很可惜沒有這個機會我們會跟市政府一起來合法那我想水利署也答應我明年會編列這個預算那當然我會積極的催促台中市政府應該要把計畫寫好符合你們的一些需求大家一起來努力但你有提供預算他拿不到是他的問題"},{"start":13548.905,"end":13561.144,"text":"但首先我要先處理源頭有確定這個預算那也在這邊感謝水利署是 謝謝那另外我要再拜託部長因為部長我們看到其實經濟部有提供一些不管是菜市場"},{"start":13562.345,"end":13592.025,"text":"或者是一些商圈在改造更新啊或者是市場美學的一些計畫那我有看到在我們的像我之前有爭取我們台中第五市場有一個市場美學有做申請這樣的計畫案也有納入到這個部分希望明年度也有一定的預算比例能夠繼續的運用在市場的更新或者是商圈的一個協助這個部分呢"},{"start":13594.688,"end":13609.644,"text":"應該沒問題吧沒問題那我也另外是希望說因為不知道經濟部有沒有去研究那有一些市場我們說夜市好了夜市能夠如果做成行人徒步區會不會有助於增加整個經濟的帶動部長您的見解呢"},{"start":13612.632,"end":13640.563,"text":"我同意但是這個可能要跟市政府做一些討論當然要討論因為它有地方的一些民情還有交通的一個問題那我是希望說經濟部能不能加大力度的提供胡蘿蔔來鼓勵他們能夠來申請這個部分商圈的整治本來就有來 說明一下我是針對行人徒步區行人徒步區的部分它還是會涉及到地方政府的法規我知道補助的話有沒有"},{"start":13642.462,"end":13652.19,"text":"補助的話我們對於商圈的一些發展環境改善那邊我們是會有一些協助可以協助啦設計方面可以做一些美學的設計"},{"start":13653.784,"end":13677.799,"text":"但是整個投資下去我們還是要跟地方政府一起來合作當然當然不會把所有責任都放在你那邊但是我覺得這個是我最近所關注到的一些議題也希望說能夠大家一起來努力那我想再次感謝經濟部在這兩次我看到不管是水利署或者是我們的商發署能夠幫我協助到地方的一些需求我們也非常感謝以上 謝謝"},{"start":13688.31,"end":13689.311,"text":"請黃宏威質詢好 謝謝主席我請部長 龔部長"},{"start":13708.169,"end":13735.458,"text":"好部長好請教一下這大家都非常關心的就談美關稅總統說呢有好消息那總統比較確定的是說這次的談判沒有涉及匯率那當然在媒體呢就是大家就傳言那起碼有兩項一個是全面開放美豬或者對於美國車的零關稅那今天早上我看到院長有接受採訪"},{"start":13736.598,"end":13757.65,"text":"他沒有正面去回答這個問題只有提到說這個食安啊什麼還是會有保障等等好那我想請教部長就您所了解開放美豬跟開放就是讓美國車零關稅是不是在這一次總統所講的好消息中的其中的兩項"},{"start":13759.466,"end":13777.573,"text":"包委員因為美豬的部分因為我跟談判團隊討論的比較是製造業經濟部主管那我來問你有關於車子的關稅好不好車子的確是有touch到有納入這次的談判那我們這次是針對美規車的零關稅嗎"},{"start":13781.596,"end":13805.671,"text":"是美製車是美國製造的車子所以美製車的話那就代表你不管是美規歐規或者是日本車的品牌只要是在美國製造在美國製造就可以零關稅是不是這樣不一定是零關稅因為談判的結果還沒有做最後確定但是有可能零關稅"},{"start":13807.795,"end":13827.064,"text":"我们希望不要了希望我们希望就是我们的底线是什么我们底线是不要零个关税还是底线就是到最后就是没办法就零关税那我们的这个因为现在也有很多其实这是好几个力量的冲击比如对消费者来讲零关税蛮好的但是对于这个"},{"start":13827.904,"end":13846.503,"text":"对于我们的一些劳工来讲劳工朋友其实也很担心所以我们没有零关税我们现在是17.5%那我们能够接受的最多的底线是什么呢这个就不好大概就是所以可以确定的就是美制车的关税会下降"},{"start":13848.312,"end":13862.833,"text":"會下降方向上方向是如此那而且他不單純只是美規也有歐規因為我知道我們也有一些歐規車在跟我們抗議貿易通關是他的貨品來源是哪裡是如果美規"},{"start":13863.514,"end":13877.951,"text":"美国然后他有附加价值一定的比例他才可以有这样的税率彼此我们也去也是一样我们不能用洗产地的方式拿国外的东西卖给美国然后享受这个优惠关税这个也不行当然"},{"start":13878.371,"end":13898.193,"text":"所以这边就是我们要了解就是很多消费者是关心了那另外要请教一下就是最近川普动作很多那他马上就要来亚洲访问那其中一部分他在因为他不参加那个APEC但是他会去韩国"},{"start":13899.695,"end":13906.48,"text":"而且這次傳出美國跟韓國渴望會有這個有關關稅談判新的進展而且說南韓關稅渴望降到15%像日本也15%如果韓國也降到15%的話那當然"},{"start":13919.769,"end":13935.554,"text":"對於台灣來講因為他們兩個國家在很多產業跟我們是競爭的好所以如果韓國降成15%的話那麼是不是對台灣來說台灣來說是很大的壓力我們有機會談到15%嗎"},{"start":13937.595,"end":13953.85,"text":"是 报告委员这个也是我们努力的方向的确就像您讲的我们很多产品是跟日韩是有一些竞争关系但是对我们比较辛苦的是因为我们对美国的顺差远高于这两个国家所以我们当然会一定会努力希望"},{"start":13954.511,"end":13979.543,"text":"我們有沒有機會到15%現在韓國如果15%的話對我們壓力太大了對對對 我們努力那另外 大家很關心的我們20%你們說是暫時性的這一暫時也好幾個月都過去了請問這個暫時還要維持多久然後我們可以什麼時候不用疊加現在我們還是20%是疊加結果人家韓國準備要降到15%了"},{"start":13980.843,"end":14004.573,"text":"如果今年不是今年底是本月底這個月底韓國跟美國真的談出一個關稅降到15%而我們還要疊加所以請問一下所謂我們的暫時性關稅部長能不能給我們一個就是一個期盼可不可以在今年底之前我們至少看到我們不需要疊加"},{"start":14006.251,"end":14034.28,"text":"這個我們來努力那我的信心雖然沒有辦法到百分之百但是我滿有信心可以努力那部長可不可以跟我們透露一下我們到底什麼時候會台美之間這些關稅的這些談判大概幾月份可以明朗因為最後的總結會議還是要雙方彼此間可以達成共識以後或者有時間十月底有沒有可能因為最近剛好在"},{"start":14035.287,"end":14058.51,"text":"在APEC的世界呢所以就很難了因為他們都在忙都在忙要怎麼跟那個習近平見面怎麼去跟忙跟李在民見面他要去東南亞嘛所以10月底不可能11月底呢我們盡量11月最快最快要到11月才有可能明朗好不好我們希望這個暫時不要再繼續拖時間好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":14065.796,"end":14081.449,"text":"好 接下來我們請武力法委員質詢謝謝主席 有請部長好 國務部長"},{"start":14090.374,"end":14114.146,"text":"部長好這一次的丹納斯及728的這個特別條例我們看到在經濟部這邊電力系統編列了110億元那其中有一個叫做小型防災的微電網跟移動式電源那我也看到就是我上次總諮詢有說這個部分會"},{"start":14116.207,"end":14125.113,"text":"提8億元的經費 但是我比較想了解就是目前規劃要在哪些地方做怎麼做是"},{"start":14128.257,"end":14146.679,"text":"目前大概两部分那经济部的是我们会请地方政府来提他认为他最需要的受灾的地方那这方面好那另外是台电公司那么他也已经优先选定一些地方我们大概两方面我们能源署这8亿跟台电公司会配合一起来做"},{"start":14147.119,"end":14176.759,"text":"好當然是要跟台電公司配合所以我這邊有一個就是內政部消防署他曾經盤點了13個縣市186處議程災害孤島地區那這其中當然有非常多非常多的一個原鄉那事實上我們也很關心因為這一次有一個令人非常驚訝的就是大家正在關注馬太安溪煙色湖的時候竟然呢"},{"start":14177.319,"end":14199.651,"text":"在台東海端鄉最裡面的利稻物路兩個部落它的災況沒有人知道很慢傳出來而且裡面就是因為有廠商剛好有帶衛星電話才好不容易把畫面傳出來"},{"start":14201.052,"end":14225.625,"text":"那當然這個部分是讓我們覺得非常的驚訝啦所以我們其實非常關心就是這一些一成災害孤島的地區我們是不是應該善用這一次的經費好好的去盤點到底我們應該留在不是公所囉因為公所不知道喔現在是要留在各部落我們到底要為他們建置什麼留什麼那不曉得部長你有沒有什麼看法"},{"start":14229.91,"end":14254.129,"text":"内政部的确是有把台湾的这些可能成为孤岛的部分做了一些盘点那我们跟他们也有去初步询问就是说这些孤岛需要刚刚提到的这些电网设施微电网设施因为还有些通讯设施的部分目前来讲比较优先的大概有50几个地方那我们就会优先来看这50几个地方"},{"start":14255.15,"end":14282.385,"text":"要設置在哪一個地方就是它比如說學校裡面還是社區中心還是等等一些情況我就是希望能夠好好的比較細微的去做一個精緻的盤點跟設置好不好對 沒有錯那第二個部分我想請教一下因為我們其實這幾年每一次去勘災其實我有一些心得我以高雄的那馬下區跟桃園區為例"},{"start":14284.486,"end":14312.181,"text":"他們一個是男子仙溪一個是老農溪但是呢這個河川的這個界點讓我很頭痛啊為什麼因為以桃園來講他可能河川署的這個範圍比較長所以呢經常他們要求做戶案的時候比較容易取得經費可是呢我們來去看納瑪夏的時候他那個男子仙溪大部分都是水保署"},{"start":14313.101,"end":14338.84,"text":"所以每一次做出的互按需求好像都找不到錢我其實有去看了一下我們有一個中央管籍跨省市河川界點有這樣的一個會議我看了一下其實看似好像每隔幾年都有在檢討但是我實際去看沒有做任何的調整是很難嗎"},{"start":14340.121,"end":14356.412,"text":"還有現在的坑溝其實像溪現在的溪是河所以我覺得莫拉克之後其實我們的整個地形地貌河川都產生很大的改變我不太曉得說到底有沒有檢討的平台有沒有檢討的精緻"},{"start":14359.554,"end":14378.903,"text":"八號委員這個確實有些難度因為各單位都有他的本職要去做的工作但是我覺得委員所談的我們可以納入我們去年剛成立的水域流域的一個推動小組但是由行政院副院長承舉的很好有這個平台機制我們可以在那邊來做討論沒有問題"},{"start":14380.784,"end":14396.589,"text":"我們真的希望討論一下因為我覺得至少他在經費上真的就完全不一樣心有餘力不足那我覺得這個都要全盤的來監討要不然每一個區域都很不公平對不對那不好意思主席再給我一分鐘"},{"start":14397.449,"end":14407.5,"text":"好 那第三個我就想要了解一下關於水的問題因為我們經常在處理民眾想要設減水想要設所謂自來水但是這幾年整個風箱都變了就是我們原鄉地區開始都在掙扎要自來水"},{"start":14416.329,"end":14443.122,"text":"這個跟我們過去不喜歡舊木更新現在都掙扎要排隊舊木更新可是政府的經費不知道是越來越多還是越來越少那以這個供水普及率鹽管加減水我知道屏東72跟人家都90幾差很多那沒有關係時間的關係我希望給我一個原因一個書面報告但是我也要問一個我比較關心的就是關於鹽管的部分因為我們全國跑你看這個濁西鄉"},{"start":14447.785,"end":14452.074,"text":"21.56欸那我要講喔我也有很多案子 卓西鄉很多部落都跟我要喔"},{"start":14453.168,"end":14477.298,"text":"但是我發現很難喔我不知道到底是縣政府的問題還是鄉公所的問題還是到底是中央的問題我不知道喔但是真的很難喔難怪它那麼低我們會來努力啦有些是因為地方他們已經有一個減水的管理委員會那他們可能有一些疑慮那這個我們會再來努力因為本來這就是我們應該來推動的我知道的有時候也不太是這樣啦"},{"start":14478.258,"end":14506.777,"text":"我覺得其實我們這全國各縣市我們大概都看得出哪裡一樣哪裡不一樣我真的覺得有一些很麻煩的地方人家不需要附上的附件他需要這就很怪那我想這個部分反正就給我原因給我原因好不好就盤這一些很低的像萬榮鄉海端鄉都很低好 謝謝那再來就是最後一個問題因為我很高興我進來立法院的時候我知道在我們的經濟部"},{"start":14507.978,"end":14522.773,"text":"有一個技術師那很開心那個時候他就有提供仁愛鄉做大合當歸那後來悟台鄉也爭取到去幫助他們的金釵石湖那後來112年補助兩個113年補助三個"},{"start":14525.396,"end":14551.545,"text":"今年度補助四個其實我是要肯定因為我覺得我們原鄉有了這個那個技術師的經費導入真的這一些的產業發展很不一樣但是我想請教一下所有這幾個案子是哪一個單位在做工研院嘛我是要提醒啦其實我是故意問啦為什麼因為"},{"start":14553.069,"end":14569.217,"text":"不要帶案子去找標的我發現這個效果很差我覺得應該是要來自地方的主動需求去協助 理解我的意思嗎因為我都 很多我都知道那我就知道他們的效果不一樣"},{"start":14570.821,"end":14584.787,"text":"我只是要做這個提醒可以嗎我們做地方創生也是要以原鄉他們的在地需求為主我希望是需求之後工研院來幫忙但是我不太希望是主動已經有一些技術一定是解決在地他們的需求為主那謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":14596.854,"end":14614.892,"text":"好 何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在好 洪孟凱委員主席謝謝主席謝謝 麻煩請龔明欣部長部長"},{"start":14622.503,"end":14648.377,"text":"好 部長好我想大家都很關心台美關係關稅的一個談判嘛那我想很多委員都有詢問過但我延續昨天我在總質詢的一個詢問我再請教一下因為現在10月底有可能川習會那川普也已經講是說台灣議題一定會被討論當中那我們過去您擔任秘書長也好或是說擔任現在部長也好其實關稅的部分也都有共同的一個參與我想請教有沒有"},{"start":14649.177,"end":14673.309,"text":"確定或說了解說在這個過程裡面台灣的台美關稅的一個議題有可能也會被納入其中去做討論報告委員據我自己的參與的部分我沒有全面參與但是台美之間的談判應該是跟中國跟美中的談判或是美中的議題沒有直接關係那所以川普所講的台灣議題"},{"start":14674.733,"end":14691.151,"text":"就我们的理解或者说我们的谈判团队来讲而且巴委员事实上跟我们组团的是USTR跟商务部但是跟美国组团好像是他们的财政部长所以好像也不太一样"},{"start":14692.052,"end":14716.301,"text":"是不一樣 但是現在我們先想問的是因為大家 你們是談判的代表我想對於台灣2300的社團來講都希望我們談判的代表能夠談出一個亮麗的成績這個是我們絕對不會期待或是說我們絕對不會唱衰說我希望談判不好我希望你談判好但是現在很明確的川普總統就已經有提到是說他月底見面的時候會拿台灣議題來談"},{"start":14717.722,"end":14735.259,"text":"那台灣議題到底是包括政治議題包括主權議題還是包括經濟議題有沒有掌握這個我就不知道也沒有辦法掌握對對對對那會不會擔心有包括經濟議題甚至如果說美中談完之後有對台灣有不利的一個條款"},{"start":14735.879,"end":14747.982,"text":"譬如說台灣的產品排除或說技術或是關稅的部分那我們有沒有備案或是因應不是 看起來就是沒有關係啊因為我們主要談的是是你的期待還是你了解沒有關係"},{"start":14749.493,"end":14776.486,"text":"至少我知道的部分是沒有什麼關係是 因為我們現在想問的是外交部像昨天我在總質詢的時候你也在現場所以你也有聽到是說我請教院長說到底有沒有掌握所謂的台灣議題到底是包含哪些的時候外交部第一時間也沒有辦法告訴我們正確答案是 因為那一天好像一早的新聞出來是 昨天對 一早所以說實在話我也第一次看到這樣的新聞"},{"start":14777.519,"end":14795.954,"text":"所以在過去的談判過程裡面都是美台之間沒有涉及其他我們持續密切掌握但是本席還是提醒一下因為畢竟瞬時萬變但是經濟部要做好充分的應變措施那部長另外一個部分也請教"},{"start":14796.855,"end":14825.189,"text":"之前輝達有講是說要來台北來台灣投資那我昨天我也說了就是說經濟部我們看到媒體報導是講是說有提供至少兩塊地包括林口國際媒體園區以及松南營區這兩塊地給輝達做選擇對那是國產署他已經好像有對外講的確的確那我們經濟部因為我早上又看到您在回答是說我們經濟部預期打算十塊地以上就雙位數是不是"},{"start":14825.769,"end":14841.401,"text":"對 因為我們是這樣想就是對我們來講輝達當然有他的條件跟這個但是對我們來講的話我們給他越多的選擇他是越可能留在台灣是所以我們就往這個方向來進行好 所以我們預計會給他多少選擇"},{"start":14842.728,"end":14865.576,"text":"我們希望還是超過10或10個以上部長我接下來問題就很關鍵囉因為揮打只有一家是對不對再怎麼樣到最後脆平中選就新娘不是我很有可能其他假設你10塊地啊包括現在台北市的這個這兩塊原本的地我們不會對外公佈來我知道你先聽完我再來告訴您說應該經濟部要做的事情是什麼就是說"},{"start":14867.518,"end":14884.916,"text":"輝達只有一家到最後出來之後新娘不是我剩下9塊地沒有可是既然經濟部會把它列為備選名單提供給輝達那就代表說那9塊地不管是條件地理位置以及人口以及技術以及跟人才的"},{"start":14885.376,"end":14908.573,"text":"都不錯沒錯這就是重點包括本席所在的林口國際媒體園區那過去因為有被財政部先列管說所謂有可能要做社宅但是現在也已經解編了而且也被經濟部拿出來當成是給揮打選擇的其中之一那本席想要問以及強調的就是那假設揮打選擇了"},{"start":14910.848,"end":14927.303,"text":"到最後確評重選不是我們這地但我們這地也確實被經濟部列為是很不錯的地那經濟部是不是有責任跟計畫要來協助招商對我們也會把這個地推介給比如說外國的企業那就要更積極因為 回答"},{"start":14929.012,"end":14949.849,"text":"選擇一個那能不能我們用這個地因為你已經盤點在這一次你已經盤點出來假設10塊地包括林口包括松南等等的那這些地的條件都很好那應該再去跟其他的國際大廠國際公司來問Google問Intel問其他各行各業有條件資格跟輝達相匹配的"},{"start":14950.714,"end":14965.401,"text":"我們是不是可以來更積極的做可以這就不是只是地方政府的責任囉是 對不對因為你等於是利用揮打來的這次機會全台灣再盤點一次而且好的地把它盤點出來那我們就可以主動出擊去找其他的"},{"start":14966.381,"end":14982.786,"text":"國際大廠來問說我們有這些地有沒有意願 主動出席我們可以做但是我們還是要跟地方政府再討論一次因為他說不定那你之前釋出林口揮打的時候有跟地方政府討論過嗎有有有地方政府說不定他只喜歡揮打因為新北市政府也很支持這個案子如果他"},{"start":14984.006,"end":15005.853,"text":"揮打之外他也可以接受其他的國際大廠那我們當然來努力啊我想應該不會有地方這麼反對說我指一定指名揮打然後其他Intel Google來我反對吧所以部長這就本席今天因為您今天來做這個業務報告嘛那您過去秘書長我們也很多次的一個共識我想對於您的專業我還是予以"},{"start":15007.472,"end":15032.044,"text":"一定程度的肯定那我也拜託既然我們已經有列出來了那揮打確定之後其他我們也可以用這樣子的土地再去更積極的招商我想這是經濟部跟地方政府可以充分配合的不分藍綠跟黨派因為只要有國際公司來即便落腳在新北市也是台灣好也是中華民國好對經濟部而言是這樣再拜託部長好不好謝謝"},{"start":15038.868,"end":15062.817,"text":"好 接下來我們請謝榮介委員質詢主席 我要請金保董 部長"},{"start":15070.146,"end":15096.014,"text":"社員好部長你好我用和樂圍你覺得有困難應該聽得懂應該聽得懂你故鄉哪裡我在台北你台北市對 台北市所以沒有啦以前我們內湖算是鄉下內湖現在一坪有六百萬你告訴我鄉下沒有啦我出生的時候我出生的時候那時候算鄉下"},{"start":15100.305,"end":15114.67,"text":"這樣就是表示 我要問你這個就是說 卡蘇你是來自水源保護窟啦水源保護窟你了解吧我知道啊我們台南市的水口這麼多 比威威水源保護窟的地方是有夠寬我們的鄉親他想要去一間便宿 要住一間寮都不行 都要接受限制跟藥送了 了解"},{"start":15126.383,"end":15139.753,"text":"那麼在這個水源保護庫裡面竟然關節這麼嚴重來做這種太陽臨盤的發展本身絕對沒有反對太陽臨但我反對的是不正常的太陽臨太陽臨太陽臨太陽臨太陽臨我想大家都一樣的態度"},{"start":15152.981,"end":15177.25,"text":"那麼我請教你這個水庫的太陽能我們收工的單價是不是比較貴價格我可能要請那個美術這你不瞭解所以不怪 說明一下水面型的我們是依照不同的太陽那水面型的是比地面型的小型的地面型的要比較貴一點貴多少"},{"start":15182.589,"end":15197.441,"text":"比較好彈比較好彈 又比較大噹4塊以下我們查一下那個差額因為我們有分好幾個級距差額差不多就4到5啦比其他的太陽能還要4到5啊 照理講它在水面上的發電耗爐比在陸上的發電耗爐比較好一點對 理論上是這樣 溫度比較低一點發電比較多 價格又比較好"},{"start":15212.677,"end":15228.933,"text":"那麼在水管保護庫裡面 鄉親最擔心的是水手的汙染我想大家都關心因為水手的汙染 灌溉用水手的汙染那麼本縮省委民意代表替鄉親提出建議"},{"start":15230.592,"end":15257.57,"text":"有本會的委員說 邱雄已經算明清澈了根本清澈就沒用清潔這個你又繼續在講 所以對本席提供 柏中你的看法如何沒有 我們是釐清啦 如果有誤解我們就盡量來釐清沒有這樣行為民意代表啦 我跟你講 那麼經過入鎮充分算明 入鎮算明你就要聽喔"},{"start":15259.173,"end":15288.036,"text":"你經濟沒發泡那麼多 藥劑跟你說我都合法你就要聽嗎?要責任嗎?當然要責任啊對 要責任藥劑清洗是不是藥劑在洗?不是啊所以水質 它還在發泡 你聽到沒有?它還在發泡讓清潔藥劑去做所以這個水質一定要定期檢查 就是這樣水質定期檢查合理嘛 都檢出"},{"start":15289.605,"end":15310.223,"text":"有寫這個成分的時候那麼民意代表鄉親敬意 關心有合理沒有啦有合理沒有但是沒有檢查出來 到目前為止在嘉南農田水理會網站要說明清楚嘛這個"},{"start":15313.291,"end":15333.134,"text":"用泥煮的蓋冰 像這個到底這是天然的 都會擔心說那是天然的啦因為你如果是用清潔器洗的話 它的容量會不一樣啦到底天然的要合成的 你用殼那個鎖骨 第一 第二"},{"start":15334.417,"end":15362.252,"text":"因為有青蛇夾架出來主撲公他們可能有用到完皮包的鄉民洗個澡啦這個洗個澡就算是去共生啦專門在洗替身啦洗鄉民的當有這個消息出來當然我們會更加關心嘛所以本縣提議要求夾架合時合地準備青蛇要說不"},{"start":15363.652,"end":15387.783,"text":"可以 可以 這個可以 好來要求嚴重 清洗的時候 要滴薄 做得夠嗎因為 你說用水口的水洗啊沒有煮來水啊 煮到要塞進去啊他水要怎麼塞進去 他用水口的水洗洗會乾淨 洗不乾淨 不管可以滴薄嗎 沒錯 有辦法滴薄嗎"},{"start":15389.878,"end":15408.858,"text":"我們就是他要清洗的時候我們可以讓大家知道有興趣的人可以來參加是這樣嗎可以要求他給我們賺那麼多錢可以要求他清洗的時候採出內部的硬幣依照工信給我們台南的鄉親說這水這樣他用水口的水洗"},{"start":15411.36,"end":15438.815,"text":"沒有汙染 有的人說用水口的水洗也有汙染這點分析可以同意 沒有汙染那個技術上看他直播會有但是我們請那個村里的辦公室的同仁一起去你忙著找村里辦公室啦啦你一定很忙的啦 我也同事你一定很關心但是他眼睛緊緊 人最重要的就是你的病啦可以要求夾症民政要派代表的話也可以啦"},{"start":15439.694,"end":15455.676,"text":"嚇死啦業者他是清洗的行為人嘛我們要看技術上可不可行啦第一這不正確性本啦第一這不正確性本啦他如果不可行他可以通知本縣我們可以幫忙"},{"start":15457.852,"end":15461.598,"text":"我也要跟署長看看這沒有整個身份啦我是說啦我們一定會公開透明這個是原則啦讓鄉親知道說這沒問題不是你說沒有就沒有我說有就有啊"},{"start":15470.66,"end":15495.533,"text":"大家在這裡好嘴小噴口露營是啊 公開透明 他們要清洗的時候你如果可以 核實核立第一階段要清洗核過核立第二階段要清洗我們都要保護讓大家透明兼施這樣就是讓台南的鄉親把這個紀錄放開了不然你現在這樣說人家就不相信你了我同意啊 就是公開透明做得到嗎 做得到"},{"start":15509.229,"end":15537.859,"text":"好接下來羅明財羅明財羅明財委員不在望美玲望美玲望美玲委員不在牛喜婷牛喜婷牛喜婷委員不在蘇清淺蘇清淺蘇清淺委員不在現在請林楚英委員質詢好主席辛苦了有請龔敏興工部長好部長"},{"start":15544.741,"end":15573.327,"text":"林委員好部長好我來問的這一題我剛剛在外交委員會其實我也問過了因為今天外委會剛好安排的是有關於關稅進度的一個報告那麼我們知道其實川普上台之後他的CBP也就是他的所謂的這個管制局關稅級邊境的保護局可以說是這個power非常大那麼過去當然台灣在漁工的部分也有被美國"},{"start":15574.948,"end":15584.559,"text":"來發所謂的暫時的扣押令但是9月24號這個是製造業的首例那麼如果我們去爬書像是新聞報導會發現他們是被檢舉而且是有少數的媒體在報導之後現在"},{"start":15590.445,"end":15608.971,"text":"有關於捷安特也就是巨大機械他們被視為是在強迫勞動的部分被美國的海關際邊境保護局扣押了台灣製造的自行車跟零組件的配件剛剛我在外委會詢問的時候我知道巨大現在在9月30號他發出了這個"},{"start":15612.252,"end":15641.432,"text":"請求書給我們政府但是他是發給外交部經濟部又加勞動部首先我要第一個問的是現在跟美國做組織溝通的部分是巨大機械自己來處理嗎還是台灣有什麼樣的部會或者是機構可以作為一個協助因為我會問這一題的原因就在於這樣的一個案例會不會影響到接下來我們其他的商業的談判的部分"},{"start":15641.952,"end":15661.101,"text":"尤其是製造業需要高人力科技業 傳產有沒有可能都因為要符合美國現在所謂他們的標準跟他們的人權的勞工制度的規則而變成是從一個個案變通案部長怎麼看"},{"start":15661.921,"end":15686.151,"text":"报告委员就是因为这件事情第一时间我们跟巨大有密切的联系那美方也有跟我们讲但是美方很清楚的讲说这个个案跟现在台美之间对等谈判是没有关系的他有清楚的讲那这个就像您刚才提到可能有单位去检举然后他们可能也有书面的了解以后"},{"start":15686.789,"end":15702.834,"text":"那是暫時性的一些處分那我們了解以後我們就跟美方說那我們怎麼可以來做一些處理那美方的意思是說因為它是一個個案而且是單一的企業跟這個他們美國的邊境"},{"start":15703.334,"end":15732.618,"text":"保护署他们之间的这个法律上可能是不是有一些误解或沟通可能还是要他们跟这个CPP来做一些说明那我们就会帮这个巨大去介绍就是在美国的可能的律师因为曾经有律师只有少数的律师他们也曾经类似的案件然后获得撤销有经验对 是少数的那我们推荐给他然后后来巨大他也连接上了"},{"start":15733.078,"end":15748.144,"text":"那現在他也可能也定了時間那目前的期程跟進度是如何有沒有訊息我們只是知道就是說他在一定的特定的時間裡面他會跟CPP去做一些說明"},{"start":15748.784,"end":15766.387,"text":"因為在這個部分的過程當中有一些專家跟學者特別用過去台灣的漁船在這個所謂漁工的對待上面受到美國發布這個所謂戰扣令的制裁的過程當中有特別提到就是他認為你涉嫌所以我就先扣下來"},{"start":15767.088,"end":15784.26,"text":"扣下來之後你就去打官司或者是證明自己的清白那麼從這個個案當中會讓其他的不論是傳產製造業或者是接下來的科技業會擔憂那麼到底我今天在美國的境外在台灣或其他地方設廠的"},{"start":15785.56,"end":15812.559,"text":"我不是代工而是我自己的做自由品牌的時候那麼會不會有另外一種就是在美國這邊以他的標準但是境外要達到他的標準的時候那麼對於我們的科技業又或者是傳產業會不會造成一些所謂的影響不知道委員因為CPP只要是全世界各國他要出口產品到美國他都要受到他的一個"},{"start":15814.827,"end":15830.423,"text":"他规定他要满足他的一些规定那这些事件是主要是因为台湾的厂商在雇用这个外籍移工的时候是类似被人家检举就是说是不是涉嫌有强迫劳动的"},{"start":15831.064,"end":15846.532,"text":"的可能 可怀疑所以现在巨大就可能要去做一些说明就是说当然美方它也有关系几个重要的问题比如说它的宿舍环境或者是说"},{"start":15847.192,"end":15861.569,"text":"其他的就是说我们在雇佣外籍移工的时候的仲介费到底是谁来支付的问题类似这个那我们会一一如果是属于通案我们会一一去处理那个案的部分我们协助他跟这个CPP来做说明"},{"start":15861.889,"end":15891.207,"text":"好 那么从这个案子因为我知道时间到了那么所以我也提醒经济部在这个部分就是应该有一个个案发生之后其他相关的产业包括传产或科技业恐怕他们也会有所担忧那么是不是可以给一个指引或者是说给一些讯息上面的联系让这些产业界能够有相关的指引可寻对 所以这个部分我们跟劳动部会密切的沟通那劳动部也会因为这样也要定一个指引出来的确是这样的好 谢谢"},{"start":15899.205,"end":15918.406,"text":"習以珍 習整委員不在 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在我們現在請張家俊 三分鐘謝謝主席 我想請龔部長"},{"start":15924.892,"end":15940.421,"text":"部長本席相信您一上任就要面臨的一大挑戰就是剛剛很多委員都問的就是說揮打要如何就是弱角在台灣那揮打的問題不僅攸關台灣AI產業鏈的核心地位也關係著國際投資對台灣營商環境的信心那這一點部長您認同嗎"},{"start":15951.167,"end":15969.699,"text":"是 輝達它現在在台灣有三個部分一個部分它的算力中心也會在台灣另外一個跟我們所謂的研發中心也留在台灣了那現在就是它的海外總部也希望是在台灣那我們會努力把這個事情拿出來把這三個都留在台灣那請問一下你們努力的方向有什麼具體的作為嗎"},{"start":15975.382,"end":15991.722,"text":"因為輝達現在需要我們的是說萬一這個T-17-18如果沒有彈程的情況之下可不可以有其他的基地提供給它做參考要不要建議他們來我們雲林呢我們雲林不缺水不缺電而且我們有高鐵還有台大"},{"start":15993.404,"end":15995.945,"text":"而且我們現在中科二期過大假設有部長的支持的話我們有一個32.8公頃的土地就在中科雲林旁邊非常方便是台塘的土地你三個都可以來雲林啊因為他需要的是企業總部啦海外企業總部所以他需要的面積大概3公頃到4公頃"},{"start":16019.298,"end":16033.928,"text":"是 但你說還有算力中心還有研發中心嘛他們已經有一些規劃了是…那有關於這個部分我想最新消息是台新金跟新壽願意把地還給台北市不曉得部長有沒有掌握這是否屬實呢這個我就不知道了"},{"start":16037.33,"end":16055.036,"text":"所以不確定還不確定所以呢我們也很希望說我們傳遞給全球的訊息不是中央跟地方誰的責任而是台灣政府有能力可以整合我們整合內部然後提供穩定的這個投資條件那我想這個"},{"start":16056.917,"end":16085.298,"text":"是一個國際資金跟人才投資信任的象徵喔所以呢也希望說台灣作為一個半導體的強國那甚至喔在亞太在全球的重要性那所以政府喔尤其是您是經濟部部長那您有擔任過秘書長您最知道說怎麼樣整合怎麼樣調停頂賴喔所以可能也要請部長積極介入喔協助台北市政府喔或者是其他揮打有興趣的土地喔"},{"start":16086.018,"end":16112.71,"text":"儘快的趕快讓它可以落腳這一點部長好的因為17 18那是合約關係契約關係但是如果其他的土地包括包括台北市政府裡面松南的部分有市政府的土地也有國產那我們可以盡量來最後我再問您一個問題就上週五我們三讀通過了有關於普發現金一萬元不曉得部長現在預計什麼時候可以發放部長知道嗎"},{"start":16113.894,"end":16140.227,"text":"那個是財政部不過我們有承諾我們有承諾一個月之內嘛這個總統公布以後一個月之內你們跨部會都不曉得互相沒有知會說什麼時候會發放不曉得嗎主要還是在財政部主政但是一個月之內那估計可以貢獻多少台灣多少GDP嗎上次國發會有一些估計嘛好像會對經濟成長率"},{"start":16144.002,"end":16162.469,"text":"增加0.4%主計總數是評估說會有0.65%那我們當然希望說這個對於我們蒲發現金之後呢這股消費力可以變成投資力產業力好不好一起加油謝謝接下來我們請邱志偉委員"},{"start":16174.264,"end":16184.719,"text":"三分钟谢谢主席有请这个经济部总部长台电董事长总经理"},{"start":16188.246,"end":16210.262,"text":"这个第一个问题请教台美关税谈判总统说法是20%的占行税率会调降那另外就是说没有不叠加是不叠加另外争取232的这个条款最惠国待遇这是三个可能的方向那当然是好事是他没有提到是就是说他会用什么形式来签订是白纸黑字还是口头承诺还是开一个记者会"},{"start":16210.982,"end":16238.583,"text":"因为日本跟韩国就是缺乏这个白纸黑字后来就衍生后面的一些纷争我们会不会有白纸黑字这是第一个问题第二个问题是说没有提到扩大对美的投资跟采购这部分部长您掌握的状况怎么样报告委员公布的形势可能我们双方面也还要做一些讨论但是我知道的是会有一个文本"},{"start":16239.437,"end":16254.27,"text":"就是白紙黑字对对对会签有两方的这个协商代表共同投印同意这样的白紙黑字对有白紙黑字好另外就是说没有提到的是这个扩大对美的投资跟采购这部分您了解状况是怎么样"},{"start":16255.27,"end":16281.798,"text":"因为每日韩一个5500一个3500投资的部分我们跟日韩是不太一样对我们投资的话是厂商会过去投资条件有没有改变就是之前的跟他们讨论我们投资的方案当然不是日韩模式我们是有台湾模式对我们很清楚这个有没有改变对我们很清楚的是厂商要去美国投资的话一定要有订单然后他也可以赚钱所以要投资项目什么是比较清楚的"},{"start":16282.418,"end":16301.968,"text":"所以不會像日韓有一個額度出來嗎對 日韓它比較跟我們不一樣它就是一筆錢然後要放在那邊但至於要投資什麼所以我們確定的不是日韓模式我們不一樣可能是這個產業鏈過去或者是一個複製什麼我們產業園區的這種概念我們是說確定要投資什麼項目"},{"start":16303.329,"end":16329.399,"text":"才要去投資才有這個預算才有這個錢確定有別於日韓模式對他們不一樣他們是先一筐一筆錢然後再決定投資什麼第二個問題這個反對核能反核是我基本理念重返核能發電是因為產業的需求做一個政治工作者我必須要堅持我的理念之外也要考慮到產業發展的需求"},{"start":16331.392,"end":16353.704,"text":"就是反核跟反核反對的反跟返回的反返回核電就是重新用核能作為發電的一個途徑但不可能就是由我當然是反對這個重啟這個舊的核電廠這40年以上當然風險很高但是新的核能技術總統也說這個可以去考慮包括SMR"},{"start":16355.038,"end":16374.895,"text":"SMR 很多國家都用SMR另外這個未來你這個核分裂改成用核融合這個當然需要很長的時間目前經濟部或者台電有沒有開始在進行所謂SMR的相關的這個規劃跟研究甚至更遠端更遠期的這個所謂核融合的技術那個董事長"},{"start":16376.44,"end":16398.036,"text":"报告委员就是说其实我们现在大概都用SMR在讲但是事实上它很多发电形式都会改变设计的反应炉的设计方法都不同那其实台电是我们的核能部门是一直都在follow这个世界的发展的趋势那我们也会来做SMR作为未来核能发电的一个形式"},{"start":16398.88,"end":16428.11,"text":"我这样说因为台电基本上是这一些设备的应用者那现在谈的都是这些设备的开发者就我们现在讲说如果SMR你现在讲New Scale这些都是这些设备的开发者那其实台湾在合工这一块就是说如果我们要做要做这一个投入他可能要做更多的一些准备那不过台电公司作为应用技术应用者其实我们在follow这些应用的发展方向是"},{"start":16428.973,"end":16453.96,"text":"另外最後一個問題想提醒一下這個部長就是產業發展不均衡股市上三萬點基本上是AI跟半導體全程撐起來但是傳統產業比它的股價是比起過去20年最低的時候所以發生兩極化AI 半導體相關產業就是一路上漲但是傳統的製造業金屬 鉤金 鋼鐵 石化石等等苦不堪言我們必須針對傳統製造業你要轉型有個振興計畫"},{"start":16458.291,"end":16475.425,"text":"否則一個產業有兩個世界一個世界有兩種產業完全不同的面貌你要看到比較需要幫忙的那一面是 我們一定 你要具體的提出振興方案有 所以我們為什麼要下鄉"},{"start":16477.376,"end":16488.984,"text":"貼近這些產業要知道它們可能受到要有一個完整的戰略的方案怎麼樣在兩三年或者短中長期計畫短期一年 中期三年 長期五年怎麼樣針對個別產業標實化後建鋼鐵怎麼樣讓他們升級怎麼樣提升他們AI"},{"start":16496.208,"end":16518.317,"text":"種種讓他們經濟能夠維持我們短期間就是保住訂單跟金流不要斷那人才跟技術的升級轉型這個就是我們加碼的地方那就是一個是短期間至少要這樣但是你長期間你如果不轉型的話不升級的話可能還是會遭受到很大的挑戰所以還是有這樣的步驟在進行中"},{"start":16519.317,"end":16542.722,"text":"還有很多的問題 因為實際上的關係另外關於新達海基的轉型 部裡面要去關心因為今天中岡沒有來 溫馨也在新達海基這邊過去在海基 在我的選區虧損六十億那你現在到底轉型 轉型企劃哪裡 方向到底具體作為是哪裡並沒有提出來的 都很抽象你不能荒廢 閒置在那邊 你那個租金一個月一百萬"},{"start":16544.56,"end":16558.454,"text":"所以这部分尽快提出转移或者你要直接退场好那委员我们过一段时间就把这个书面资料提供给您要多久要多久这我已经讲了快半年了下个月下个月尽快了因为不能再拖了好谢谢"},{"start":16566.793,"end":16591.5,"text":"登记发言委员除不在场者外其余均已发言完毕 询答结束委员牛喜婷还有刘建国所提书面咨询内录记录刊登公报书面咨询和未及答复不问请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并复制本会本日所列议程处理完均谢谢大家 现在散会"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}