{"error":false,"id":["169752"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169752,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169752","日期":"2026-06-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-03T09:59:09+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-03T10:06:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:10","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5329b193fad04125fb2832c8629d72501daf08b7e9b1ad74585712d3831fe5f0854671cd304e1f855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"09:59:09 - 10:06:19","會議時間":"2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、\t繼續審查：\n(一)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「土石採取法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃仁等36人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員許智傑等31人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員柯志恩等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、\t審查：\n(十一)\t行政院函請審議「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)\t本院委員林倩綺等17人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t本院委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六)\t本院委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(第十五及第十六案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (詢答及處理)\n【6月3日及6月4日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":0.52034375,"end":4.11471875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":12.14721875,"end":12.94034375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":13.277843750000002,"end":16.46721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":17.10846875,"end":18.17159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":22.559093750000002,"end":83.44409375000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":84.16971875,"end":89.02971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":89.02971875,"end":127.75784375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":126.55971875,"end":158.20034375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":157.27221875,"end":158.08221875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":158.20034375,"end":160.61346875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":160.64721875,"end":170.51909375000002,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":168.35909375,"end":186.16221875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":186.28034375000001,"end":213.55034375000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":214.27596875,"end":230.50971875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":230.84721875000002,"end":265.37346875000003,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":265.62659375000004,"end":268.78221875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":269.08596875,"end":271.85346875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":272.20784375,"end":272.95034375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":273.11909375,"end":273.37221875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":274.04721875,"end":283.75034375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":281.21909375,"end":305.26596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":305.33346875,"end":305.35034375000004,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":305.36721875,"end":319.06971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":319.33971875000003,"end":330.03846875000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":330.03846875000005,"end":330.08909375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":331.43909375000004,"end":336.92346875000004,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":337.53096875,"end":339.35346875000005,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":339.57284375,"end":364.96971875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":344.44971875000005,"end":344.77034375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":365.22284375000004,"end":371.53409375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":371.73659375,"end":372.58034375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":372.58034375,"end":402.97221875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":372.59721875,"end":374.33534375000005,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":386.90721875,"end":388.27409375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":389.13471875000005,"end":389.53971875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":389.60721875,"end":389.69159375000004,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":402.97221875,"end":402.98909375000005,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":403.51221875000005,"end":404.03534375000004,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":404.03534375000004,"end":419.77971875000003,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":419.77971875000003,"end":429.85409375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭委員正鈐","start":431.27159375,"end":431.96346875,"speaker_score":0.959}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.563,"end":16.172,"text":"接下來的話我們有請這個鄭正前委員質詢謝主席我想請一下經濟部賴建信次長請經濟部賴次長"},{"start":22.828,"end":43.505,"text":"市長早安因為今天我們是針對土石財區法的一個修法的一個詢答那我想說因為行政院版的土石財區法第36號修正草案重點集中在那個提高行政罰款 沒入機據徵令盈利性的盜採刑責加重結果犯處罰以及整覆的規範"},{"start":44.486,"end":67.319,"text":"那我這邊想要特別提到因為坦白說加入刑罰的部分的時候我覺得是一個好的方式能夠得到更好的一個威嚇的效果不過因為它的前提是有一個意圖引力這個主觀範疑的部分那這個舉證門檻是不是會變得很高因為現在事實上我們看到很多司法的實務上面的時候不法分子他們通常是用土地改良"},{"start":68.179,"end":82.671,"text":"整地自用或者是清除淤泥等等的一個理由基本上你要去證明這個意圖營利這個部分我覺得之後會變成我們在舉證上面的一個困難所以針對這個部分的時候我們是不是有可能"},{"start":84.515,"end":110.97,"text":"這個刑責的部分不會把意圖營利變成一個前提這部分可不可以請次長做個簡單的說明首先跟委員講其實要區分這個部分檢察官只有他的偵辦的技巧除了從事實的發生的場所來源或是契約書或是通聯的資料或是土方的去處那除此之外土石採取法現行的規定第三條裡面針對自用的部分就有明確的規範"},{"start":112.071,"end":128.99,"text":"排除自用的部分剛剛委員所舉的例子很多的部分就會贏到自己的利甚至是賺不法的這個利得所以基本上我們認為說目前行政院版的這個部分可以體現我們希望達到的利益所以這部分其實就讓檢察官這邊到時候去辦"},{"start":130.031,"end":156.641,"text":"那因為我覺得這一次的修法當中其實有幾個點因為我覺得意圖盈利這個部分如果說把那個用數量跟規模的部分直接當作一個條件這也許是一個思考的方向那當然就是說如果說我們這邊其實要用意圖盈利然後你把這個意圖盈利在主觀的那個條件去讓檢察官這邊去處理當然是一個解決的當然是一個做法可是我們認為到時候你在舉證當中其實就會變得非常的困難"},{"start":157.301,"end":180.216,"text":"第一是要遏止這個狀況,在發現事實的這個當下第一個在執法的人員就可以來說所謂的沒收或是沒入這一些的經驗我們在看這個法律當中的時候我個人覺得就是你會牽涉到一個到時候要用刑責的部分會有一個主觀的一個論定這樣的一個困難點"},{"start":180.996,"end":197.246,"text":"可是因為我覺得今天要討論幾個點比方說我們在修法當中的時候也特別把那個原本的按日連續處罰改成按次處罰那這個部分的時候呢我覺得各有各的考量可是按次處罰之後它會非常的去考驗到"},{"start":198.166,"end":213.357,"text":"地方在執法上面的一個能力因為如果按日處罰的時候我們相對的時候比較容易去做一個行政的一個處罰的一個判斷可是你如果變成是個按次處罰你必須要賴主管"},{"start":214.515,"end":237.389,"text":"單位的時候每一次每一次的去做這樣子的一個檢查我覺得可能會造成基層當中的一個負擔越來越重而且你用次數的方式的壓力跟按日數給他們那個經濟的壓力我覺得按日數給他們經濟壓力可能會更大首先跟委員報告近五年我們這對土石採取的這個案件我們大概統計大概有76件"},{"start":238.779,"end":263.315,"text":"這些的案件的話都是相當地方矚目或是社會矚目的那既然是如此的話所以執法人員他必須要去到現場去看看事實那除此之外的話法務部在針對所謂的行政法有關於所謂的案日跟案次的部分逐日來把它改成說案次所以案次是執法人員要去現場看是"},{"start":263.955,"end":288.25,"text":"事實的狀況如何來做一個處罰在這個行政裁罰上面的話不管是對於行為對於所謂的執行或是我們建立一個法治的國家大概依法來刑事 依法來裁處會更有依據所以我覺得這個做法會造成地方其實很大分因為坦白說地方現在的很多公務人員其實都補不起"},{"start":289.07,"end":303.764,"text":"你現在要用暗刺的狀態去做這樣的處理的時候我覺得是可能會造成我們給真正的違法者的時候的壓力反而會減輕不過這邊就是我先針對這部分提出來然後另外一個狀態我覺得這是修法當中還有一個點就是說我們是針對那個"},{"start":306.066,"end":327.558,"text":"盜採者的部分我們可以去抓到 可是我們對於那個獲利者 盜採這個獲利者的時候似乎沒有這樣子的一個相關的一個罰則那我覺得這個部分針對盜採那個殺死之後的一個獲利者的部分是不是可以考量比方說像森林法的一個部分把那個獲利者也能夠納進一個處罰的一個範圍"},{"start":331.642,"end":349.542,"text":"事實上在這個所謂的刑法的部分針對於所謂的共同行為人甚至是他意圖營利他的這個獲利者只要我們偵查到哪裡他就會處罰到哪裡不但是如此幫助犯、教唆犯這些都是在我們的查處的這個範圍裡面"},{"start":351.204,"end":370.539,"text":"所以我們這次提了這個修法我們地方中心特別去拜訪我剛跟其他委員說明個別偵辦的檢察官我們認為說除了罰款之外其實最有效的這個這個所謂的嚇阻的手段是徵納刑法的這個規定所以我們這次特別針對意圖"},{"start":372.281,"end":387.859,"text":"營利或是加重所以我才會特別提到說因為他有一個主觀翻譯舉證上面的一個問題啦那當然就是說部長今天我不知道你們在做這樣的過程當中的時候是不是有跟相關的一個執法的一個單位有做過一個溝通有有有有做過溝通他們也都覺得他們負擔得來嘛"},{"start":389.781,"end":419.641,"text":"OK那另外一部分就是我希望說在這次修法當中說可以把那個斷絕就是盜財土食這相關的跟那個利益鏈的部分的時候也能夠嚴加的一個杜絕我覺得這才是最主要的一個根本解決的方法本次行政通過經濟服所提的版本裡面經過反覆的檢討我們認為說可以有效的二組法不法然後達到我們所希望達到修法的目標"},{"start":419.921,"end":427.266,"text":"我們希望這次修法之後能夠真正的有效然後來杜絕比方說很多地方的一個稻財土石房這樣子的一個問題謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:22.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:25.052000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請經濟部賴建信次長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:25.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:25.172000+08:00","text":"請經濟部賴次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:25.172000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:33.209000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:33.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:33.349000+08:00","text":"次長早安。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:34.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:52.505000+08:00","text":"今天我們是針對土石採取法修法的詢答，因為行政院版的土石採取法第三十一條修正草案重點集中在提高行政罰鍰、沒入機具、增訂營利性的盜採刑責、加重結果犯處罰以及整復規範。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:53.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:03.552000+08:00","text":"我想要特別提到，因為坦白說加入刑罰的部分，我覺得是一個好的方式，能夠得到更好的威嚇效果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:03.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:10.215000+08:00","text":"不過，因為它的前提是有意圖營利的主觀犯意的部分，這個舉證門檻是不是會變得很高？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:10.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:28.969000+08:00","text":"因為事實上現在我們看到很多的司法實務，不法分子通常是用土地改良、整地自用或是清除淤泥等等理由，如果要去證明意圖營利的部分，我覺得之後會變成在舉證上的困難。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:28.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:40.159000+08:00","text":"所以針對這個部分，是不是有可能在刑責的部分，不要把意圖營利變成一個前提，這部分可不可以請次長做個簡單的說明？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:40.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:09.481000+08:00","text":"首先跟委員說明，其實要區分這個部分，檢察官自有他的偵辦技巧，除了從事實發生的場所來源或契約書或通聯資料，或是土方的去處；除此之外，土石採取法現行規定第三條裡面，針對自用的部分有明確規範，排除自用的部分，剛剛委員所舉的例子，很多部分就會營利到自已，甚至是賺不法利得。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:10.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:15.628000+08:00","text":"所以基本上，我們認為目前行政院版的這個部分可以體現我們希望達到的目的。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:15.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:17.990000+08:00","text":"所以這部分就是讓檢察官到時候再去偵辦。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:20.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:45.641000+08:00","text":"這一次的修法當中其實有幾個點，我覺得在意圖營利的部分，如果用數量跟規模直接當作一個條件，這也許是一個思考的方向；如果要用意圖營利，對於主觀意圖營利的這個條件，讓檢察官去做處理，當然是一個做法，可是我們認為到時候在舉證的部分就會變得非常困難，這是一點。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:46.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:57.648000+08:00","text":"第一個要遏止這個狀況，在發現事實的當下，執法的人員就可以來做沒收或是沒入這些的……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:58.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:09.216000+08:00","text":"理解，但這個部分是我們在看這個法律的時候，我個人覺得這會牽涉到到時若要處以刑責，會有需要主觀認定的困難點。","quality":0.673},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:10.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:29.368000+08:00","text":"今天要討論幾個點，比方我們在修法時也特別把原本的按日連續處罰改成按次處罰，這個部分各有各的考量，可是按次處罰會非常考驗地方在執法上的能力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:30.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:59.265000+08:00","text":"因為如果是按日處罰，相對比較容易去做行政處罰上的判斷，可是如果變成按次處罰，必須要倚賴主管單位每一次、每一次去做這樣的檢查，我覺得可能會造成基層的負擔越來越重，而且相較於按次數的方式，我覺得按日數給他們的經濟壓力可能會更大。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:00.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:19.287000+08:00","text":"首先跟委員報告，近五年針對土石採取的案件，我們統計大概是有76件，這些案件都是地方或社會相當矚目的，既然是如此，執法人員必須要到現場去看看事實。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:19.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:35.897000+08:00","text":"除此之外，法務部針對行政罰有關於所謂的按日跟按次的部分，逐日把它改成按次，所謂的按次是執法人員要去現場看事實的狀況如何再來做處罰。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:35.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:50.425000+08:00","text":"在這個行政裁罰的部分，不管是對於行為、對於執行，或是我們建立一個法治國家，大家依法來行事、依法來裁處會更有依據，所以這個部分是一個通例的改善。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:50.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:08.620000+08:00","text":"但我覺得這樣的做法會造成地方很大的……因為坦白說，地方現在很多公務人員其實都補不齊，而你現在要用按次的方式去做這樣的處理，我覺得可能對於違法者的壓力反而是減輕，這邊我先針對這部分提出來。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:09.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:36.558000+08:00","text":"另外針對這次的修法還有一個點，就是針對盜採者的部分，我們可以去抓他，可是對於盜採的獲利者，似乎沒有這樣的相關罰則，我覺得針對盜採砂石的獲利者，是不是可以考量像是森林法的部分，能夠把獲利者也納進處罰範圍？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:40.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:08.971000+08:00","text":"事實上，在刑法的部分，針對所謂的共同行為人，甚至意圖營利的獲利者，只要我們偵查到哪裡，就會處罰到哪裡；不單是如此，幫助犯、教唆犯，這些都是在我們查處的範圍裡面，所以我們這次提了這個修法，我們地礦中心特別去拜訪個別偵辦的檢察官。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:09.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:22.082000+08:00","text":"我剛剛也有跟其他委員說明，我們認為除了罰款之外，其實最有效的嚇阻手段是增納刑法的規定，所以我們這次特別針對意圖營利或是加重……","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:22.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:35.257000+08:00","text":"所以我才會特別提到，因為這裡有主觀犯意在舉證上的問題，我不知道部長這邊，你們在這樣的過程中有沒有跟相關的執法單位做過溝通？","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:35.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:35.978000+08:00","text":"有、有、有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:35.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:39.201000+08:00","text":"有做過溝通，他們也都覺得他們負擔得來嘛？對。OK。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:39.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:54.171000+08:00","text":"另外一部分就是我希望在這次的修法中，也可以把斷絕盜採土石相關利益鏈的部分嚴加杜絕，我覺得這才是最主要的根本解決方法。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:54.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:06:08.501000+08:00","text":"本次行政院通過經濟部所提的版本裡面，經過反覆檢討，我們認為可以有效遏阻不法，達到我們所希望達到的修法目的。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-06-03T10:06:08.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:06:16.266000+08:00","text":"OK，我們希望這次修法能夠真正有效來杜絕很多地方盜採土石方的問題，謝謝。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-06-03T10:06:16.766000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:06:18.766000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員指導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:06:19.066000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:06:21.066000+08:00","text":"謝謝鄭正鈐委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:06:21.366000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:06:25.366000+08:00","text":"接下來我們有請謝衣鳯委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}