{"error":false,"id":["169754"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169754,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169754","日期":"2026-06-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-03T09:50:57+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-03T10:05:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5329b193fad0412514dd4e836ae675de5efbe1c17d8a0199585712d3831fe5f0f8442d53e673a3d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:50:57 - 10:05:20","會議時間":"2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：(6月3日上午9時起)\n一、審查「性別平等工作法」修正草案等100案。\n(一)委員范雲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員萬美玲等35人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員黃健豪等21人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員黃健豪等21人擬具「性別平等工作法第十九條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員李彥秀等22人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員許智傑等25人擬具「性別平等工作法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員吳宗憲等16人擬具「性別平等工作法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「性別平等工作法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n......(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)\n二、審查「就業保險法」修正草案等88案。\n(一)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「就業保險法第十條、第十一條及第十九條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員范雲等17人擬具「就業保險法第十一條及第十九條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等22人擬具「就業保險法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「就業保險法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「就業保險法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「就業保險法第十條、第十一條及第十九條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員林淑芬等23人擬具「就業保險法第十一條及第十九條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「就業保險法第十九條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員涂權吉等16人擬具「就業保險法第十條、第十一條及第十九條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員王育敏等18人擬具「就業保險法部分條文修正草案」案。\n......(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)\n【綜合詢答，僅詢答】\n【第一（一○○）案及第二（八十八）案，如經復議則不予審查】\n(6月3日下午2時30分起)\n(6月3日若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開)\n一、繼續審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。(公務及非營業特種基金預算案)。\n二、繼續審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心115年度預算書案。\n【6月3日、6月4日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":5.16096875,"end":6.88221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"周署長道君","start":7.25346875,"end":7.607843750000001,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"周署長道君","start":8.181593750000001,"end":9.04221875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":14.931593750000001,"end":15.032843750000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":15.032843750000001,"end":15.04971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":15.04971875,"end":15.134093750000002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":15.134093750000002,"end":15.62346875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":15.62346875,"end":17.04096875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":17.36159375,"end":27.722843750000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":28.144718750000003,"end":63.244718750000004,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":63.51471875000001,"end":96.43784375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":97.36596875000001,"end":128.09534375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":128.61846875,"end":168.94971875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":131.50409375,"end":131.67284375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"周署長道君","start":131.67284375,"end":131.70659375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":131.70659375,"end":131.90909375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"周署長道君","start":168.47721875000002,"end":168.49409375000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"周署長道君","start":168.51096875000002,"end":168.52784375000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"周署長道君","start":168.57846875,"end":168.83159375000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":169.33784375000002,"end":196.48971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":197.09721875000002,"end":206.61471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":205.93971875000003,"end":212.03159375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":212.43659375000001,"end":218.68034375000002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":218.76471875000001,"end":226.20659375000002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":226.29096875000002,"end":244.53284375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":244.85346875000002,"end":252.54846875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":252.61596875,"end":265.13721875000005,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員秀寳","start":266.74034375,"end":274.57034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員秀寳","start":274.65471875000003,"end":278.78909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員秀寳","start":278.92409375,"end":280.35846875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員秀寳","start":280.66221875,"end":282.41721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員秀寳","start":282.60284375000003,"end":289.77471875000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":288.07034375,"end":288.66096875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker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麻煩我們的洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":14.949,"end":35.593,"text":"玉琴委員早部長早部長我覺得為了少子化的一個衝擊總統上週宣布了推動18項政策打造公共支持的育兒體系我認為這個事實上是所有的育兒家庭都非常需要的可是實際上如何支持家庭讓家長能享受得到"},{"start":36.033,"end":63.061,"text":"才是我今天要跟部長談的部長這次部分委員提出來我們的新公法第19條修正案表面上是參考了台北市的育兒減工時可是但本質上差非常的多台北市是事辦自願參與有補助上限跟預算的控管可是現在有些版本卻是直接全國法治化甚至改由政府貼補我們減工時的一個薪資這已經不是事辦了而是新的法定的一個給付"},{"start":63.661,"end":79.188,"text":"制度而且各版本差異非常的大有的放寬到12歲有的納入孫子女甚至還有家庭照顧者也納入那甚至取消呢企業規模的一個限制這些都是大幅增加財政跟行政成本所以想問部長說勞動部有沒有針對這個版本去做過預算的推估以及這個"},{"start":84.91,"end":94.999,"text":"法案的影響評估因為如果父母跟祖父母都能夠申請那同一個家庭的上限怎麼設那誰來查核怎麼避免重複請領 部長"},{"start":97.475,"end":122.084,"text":"根據委員說明那當然現在彈性減工時的政策我想各界都很關注那在這一次我想行政院提出來的方案裡面其中有一項那我們也會來推動彈性減工時的一個獎勵的計畫那在目前其實勞工部跟行政院提出來的計畫裡面我們會把彈性減工時的這個子女的年齡也是拉到12歲"},{"start":124.065,"end":142.81,"text":"那但是很重要的前提是這個這個減工時的計劃其實是需要雇主來同意的也就是但是他的這個減少那一小時的工資是由政府來全額補貼可是是要由雇主來同意那這是因為其實各行業的工作安排的方式說實話差異很大"},{"start":144.09,"end":167.999,"text":"必須說真的有一些行業他其實真的不太容易直接來實施縮減工時的政策那如果變成勞工申請就必須要強制執行的話可能的確會造成很多企業上面的混亂那如果我們來看新公法19條條文的內容的話你就可以看出這個新公法19條條的內容它其實是一個強制性的規定"},{"start":169.48,"end":196.078,"text":"所以在這個強制性的規定下如果要把全國所有的企業都一概而論的時候我們擔心他會忽視掉各個企業各個行業在工作安排上面的差異所以我們是希望能夠先用獎勵的方式來進行那我們會來補助那個小時的全額工資也包括這個值貸會加給津貼我們這都可以來做那"},{"start":197.179,"end":217.476,"text":"也就是說政府的角色我們的工作是來降低雇主同意的門檻但現在我們這此時此刻恐怕還不適合是雇主強制性的接收那是各位請勞動部兩周內去針對這個版本也還是要去提出來可能可行性的影響評估然後他預算規模才能夠去說服大家是要怎麼去執行"},{"start":218.997,"end":243.554,"text":"那第二個就是 部長相較於產價跟育嬰留庭的這種價比較長的價 企業當然還有機會找替代人力可是陪產價育兒價彈性工時的這種短期臨時的需求工作往往就會直接轉嫁到其他同仁的身上所以勞動部這次提出來的職務代理津貼方向是對的可是我要問部長是說 這個每天800元是全發給職務代理的勞工嗎勞工怎麼拿得到"},{"start":245.235,"end":264.635,"text":"勞動部會不會有清楚的指引確保我們的津貼真的拿到勞工手上如果僱主沒有發 少發或挪作他用的話有沒有查核跟我們的處理機制那我當然要追問有時候不是一個人代理搞不好是分散到很多人代理的話那津貼是不是可以按比例分給不同的同事還是只能指定一個人的職務代理來領"},{"start":266.849,"end":289.313,"text":"是跟委員補充說明我們這個津貼其實就是要希望是雇主要真的付給了值貸那個同事那薪資單上面要有明確的值貸津貼這樣一個薪資名目那我們才會發給補貼到雇主的身上那現在的設計上面不會限只限一名的值貸我們會有一定人數的上限所以有彈性是是是"},{"start":289.873,"end":317.173,"text":"是好那下一個我要問的是部長這次的規規劃育兒減工時不減薪並搭配有職務代理的津貼跟新聘替代人力的補助我一樣同樣非常支持這樣的方向可是要請教是政策不能只看補助金額還要看職場能不能真的執行現在依據我們的企業規模新聘的替代人力有兩萬元的招募訓練補助請問部長這種替代人力的運用勞動部有沒有針對不同產業不同職類"},{"start":319.394,"end":347.35,"text":"進行過可行性的盤點跟文說沒有其實我們有跟企業界討論過因為的確如果遇到比較長時間的請休比方說像產假因為產假勞工勤產假請休或者是暈流停的請休他比較不容易是靠這個同事那長期的來指代的狀況所以可能就會需要有臨時的這個替代能力或者是他是可能他是一個這個定期契約的方式"},{"start":348.07,"end":362.428,"text":"那企業是跟我們說他們其實願意來聘新聘的替代人力但是每個新聘替代人力可能都還是會有一定的訓練上手的時間所以我們這次的補助其實就是補助企業要去新聘人力前面的這個訓練上面的成本"},{"start":363.149,"end":377.023,"text":"那針對不同的行業當然會有不同的人才需求那這部分我想我們願意來跟很多各目的世界主管機關來去做討論比方說也許會有一些是幼保的人員也許有一些是比較是商業的這個這個"},{"start":380.487,"end":394.449,"text":"銷售的人員有些也許是不懂他可能會有不同的狀況但這的確他的樣態會蠻多的可能要跟目的世界主管機關來討論但據我知道的確現在是有一些企業目前也在做這樣的準備也讓他的人才酷的破可以讓他更彈性"},{"start":395.27,"end":413.86,"text":"那我先請教育部學前教育署副署長林淑敏我要問的是什麼呢也就是說今天你們自己的報告都有寫說我因為要針對於因為教育現場事實上是特殊性應該要去考量學生的受教權那政府的"},{"start":415.281,"end":441.423,"text":"有沒有現在你目前已經也自己講說要去針對各場域不同身份人員適用的橫平性為什麼學前教授因為幼兒園我們過去在做不當對待的調查的時候最常發現是教師幾乎沒辦法請假過度負擔還要去肩負其他請假人的工作可是幼教現場事實上是一個裸播一個坑那你們現在是說建請要去審慎評估那不是你們要去評估嗎"},{"start":443.16,"end":450.917,"text":"接下來你們會去做評估嗎應該不是勞動部評估喔是你們要評估不是嗎是我們這個會再一起做一些討論跟評估"},{"start":452.776,"end":481.407,"text":"好 那我們的呂次長一樣的 就是教育部還有寫說要評估 可是好像我沒有看到你們要評估 為什麼 你們還有託營中心那如果託營中心幾乎都是女性在擔負 如果她一旦請假的話 你怎麼去做 完全沒有看到 你們只是講說我可以去考慮 甚至你們還有社工 社工還有個案對於社工的信任度 如果一旦這樣子的一個有人來做代理的時候 那你們怎麼去處理這部分"},{"start":483.047,"end":484.291,"text":"OK我是不是請那個 蘇長來請"},{"start":488.957,"end":515.734,"text":"跟委員報告那托嬰中心現在在設置的規定上面除了設置標準要求的基本的人力之外那在規定上是有要求托嬰中心要備有相對應的備用的人力和後備的人力所以一旦如果是他的工作人力有因為這個請假等等的部分來處理的話會有而且第二點是因為市長我先答斷你為什麼因為公立的我相信都沒有問題"},{"start":516.534,"end":529.666,"text":"他有護士有主任甚至有一個行政人力現在搭配是這樣私立的是完全沒有如果一百個嬰兒的那他要搭配的老師大概二三十個那你這樣子的請假你怎麼去應對因為你的"},{"start":532.368,"end":552.539,"text":"即便是兒托法也沒有要求事實上現場的托嬰中心事實上是要去有餘育的人力幼兒園同時私立幼兒園也是同樣的問題只有一個園長如果五個老師假設請假的時候那你怎麼去搭配這些人力所以包含非營利幼兒園的確非營利幼兒園有兩個行政人力那要看規模90個人以上才有"},{"start":552.979,"end":577.593,"text":"那這樣的一個我覺得你兩部都要去盤點以外我也建起也就是勞動部應該要去針對產業要有替代人力的協助平台同樣教育部跟衛福部也要有因為你畢竟托嬰中心跟幼兒園都是照顧比較年幼的孩子我們不希望老師在過度負擔之後可能有情緒上的一個壓迫感"},{"start":578.013,"end":597.045,"text":"可能也會擔心事實上是對孩子有一些不利所以請兩部會去配合我們的勞動部我想我們會來跟幾個目的社會主管機關尤其是教育部跟衛福部來討論就是請大家在這個人力的破上面有沒有一個更彈性可以調度的設置的這樣的準備的空間再麻煩他兩部先請回"},{"start":599.486,"end":628.471,"text":"部長除了少子化以外我覺得我們也面臨高齡化的挑戰我們今天就討論在育兒可是事實上我之前就一直在跟部長這邊也質詢過也就是能不能像日本的介護那個政策一樣六成的有薪安排假他不是每一年都要給只是要有這樣的一個所謂的長照的安排假那部長目前我上次講說三個月要提出事辦計畫目前現在進度是什麼"},{"start":629.191,"end":644.489,"text":"長照3.0上路了半年需求評估出來了嗎如果出來的話目前規劃是不見得一定要30天可是一定要給為什麼因為也不是每一年要給是因為如果是被評估他已經要進入到長照體系的時候他需要這個長照安排價"},{"start":645.424,"end":659.839,"text":"跟委員說明的確這部分說實話我們還是要跟衛福部來討論在長照上面的需求情境這部分我們還是正在跟衛福部討論那只剩一個月的時間就麻煩"},{"start":662.961,"end":682.427,"text":"還是必須要去確認,尤其現在3.0,就我知道啦,它也是陸續的部分上路啦那在這陸續部分上路的情況下面,未來它到底整體的需求情形,假設說有所謂的空窗那空窗的樣態跟長短是什麼樣子,這部分真的還是會需要重複"},{"start":683.047,"end":710.855,"text":"部長一個月內要趕快交了因為只剩下一個月的時間最後就是我們勞動部的那個桃竹苗的分屬公告苗栗就業中心的北苗台因建物的老舊漏水已經暫停服務了民眾要改到苗栗就業中心勞動部說法是說新舊站距離只有兩公里而那北苗台本來就是小型據點服務績效也不好勞動部回應說每個月才五個人次那我要追問的是"},{"start":711.135,"end":730.222,"text":"到底是績效不好還是苗栗市沒有就業服務需求還是勞動部的服務設計沒有把人找出來因為我認為苗栗市不是沒有需求苗栗市65歲以上的人口已經佔了兩成了那這代表中高齡就業跟婦女重返職場長照的照顧能力弱勢家庭的就業支持這都不是抽象問題"},{"start":730.942,"end":748.559,"text":"所以請部長具體說明兩件事情如果現在沒辦法立刻說明的話請勞動部一個月內給我報告第一北苗台過去三年的每年的服務人次求職的登記數跟推介的就業數跟成功媒合率是多少和苗栗就業中心的"},{"start":749.339,"end":769.607,"text":"相比的話差多少第二勞動部有沒有分析過績效不好的原因是民眾沒有需求宣導不足還是交通不便服務時間不適合還是服務項目不符合中高齡跟弱勢求職者的需求如果長期服務人次低落為什麼沒有提早處理好那麼建立一套那個服務可靜性的評估標準"},{"start":770.487,"end":787.875,"text":"假設服務據點的品質跟服務的天數不是那麼完整或是一直沒有民眾來 是不是應該定期檢討並提出具體的改善措施是 委員好 那我想主要應該考量北苗的就業服務台因為它的功能定位是在辦理檢疫的"},{"start":788.739,"end":815.673,"text":"求財求職的這個業務他不是在提供失業給付認定那也不是在做職業來諮詢那因為他的距離呢離那個苗栗的就業中心只有兩公里也就是說車程只有五分鐘所以民眾會很自然去選擇苗栗中心去辦理業務那每個禮拜呢有兩天提供服務每個月的服務人是因為低於五人所以我們認為實在是效益不是很佳那目前我們已經有先暫停營運那剛剛委員所說的後續我們對於這個設點的部分"},{"start":818.496,"end":836.017,"text":"我們可能需要有更科學署長我不是反對據點診病可是不能用距離兩公里跟績效不好作為理由那個績效不好所以我剛跟你講說我為你提出這兩點請你提供報告就是你如果用這樣績效不好到底是沒有貼切到他們的服務需求嗎"},{"start":836.678,"end":860.711,"text":"那個委員這樣子好不好我認為今天針對這個區域那包括整體的需求狀況我覺得不是可能不是看一個單點整體的需求狀況跟這個服務資源如何整合能夠更有效這部分給我們一個月的時間那我們來去再做一個評估然後我直接請同仁去跟去委員辦公室說明謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:51:02.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:51:05.371000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請洪部長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T09:51:05.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:51:05.771000+08:00","text":"好，有請洪部長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:51:12.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:51:12.390000+08:00","text":"月琴委員早。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:51:13.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:51:13.451000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:51:15.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:51:25.444000+08:00","text":"我覺得為了少子化的衝擊，總統在上週宣布了要推動18項政策，打造公共支持的育兒體系。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:51:25.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:51:34.453000+08:00","text":"事實上，我認為這是所有育兒家庭都非常需要的，實際上如何支持家庭，讓家長能享受得到，才是我今天要跟部長談的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:51:35.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:52:14.527000+08:00","text":"部長，這次有部分委員提出性工法第十九條的修正案，表面上是參考了臺北市的育兒減工時，但本質上差非常的多，臺北市是試辦自願參與有補助上限跟預算的控管，可是現在有些版本卻是直接全國法制化，甚至改由政府貼補減工時的薪資，這已經不是試辦了，而是新法定的給付制度，而且各版本差異非常的大，有的放寬到12歲，有的納入孫子女，還有家庭照顧者也納入，甚至取消企業規模的限制，這些都是大幅增加財政及行政成本。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:52:14.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:52:23.211000+08:00","text":"所以想問部長，勞動部有沒有針對這些版本做過預算的推估，以及這個法案的影響評估？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:52:24.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:52:30.198000+08:00","text":"如果父母跟祖父母都能夠申請，同一個家庭的上限怎麼設？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:52:30.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:52:30.979000+08:00","text":"誰來查核？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:52:31.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:52:31.979000+08:00","text":"怎麼避免重複請領？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:52:31.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:52:31.999000+08:00","text":"請部長說明。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:52:34.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:52:49.941000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，當然現在彈性減工時的政策，我想各界都很關注，在這一次行政院所提出方案裡其中有一項，我們也會來推動彈性減工時的一個獎勵計畫。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:52:50.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:53:27.453000+08:00","text":"在目前勞動部跟行政院提出來的計畫裡，我們會把彈性減工時的子女年齡，也是拉到12歲，但是很重要的前提是，這項減工時計畫是需要雇主同意的，但是減少那1小時的工資是由政府全額補貼，可是這是要由雇主來同意的，說實話，因為各行業工作安排的方式差異很大，必須說真的有一些行業真的不太容易直接實施縮減工時的政策。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:53:28.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:53:35.936000+08:00","text":"如果由勞工申請就必須要強制執行的話，的確可能會造成很多企業的混亂。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:53:37.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:04.032000+08:00","text":"如果我們來看性工法第十九條條文的內容，它其實是一個強制性的規定，所以在這個強制性的規定下，如果要把全國所有企業都一概而論的時候，我們擔心它會忽視掉各個企業、各個行業在工作安排上面的差異，所以我們是希望能夠先用獎勵的方式來進行。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:04.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:12.218000+08:00","text":"我們會來補助那個小時的全額工資，也包括職代會加給津貼，我們這些都可以來做。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:14.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:23.187000+08:00","text":"也就是政府的角色，我們的工作是來降低雇主同意的門檻，但現在這此時此刻，恐怕還不適合要雇主強制性的接受。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:24.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:31.914000+08:00","text":"可不可以請勞動部在2週內，針對這各版本提出可行性的影響評估及預算規模？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:32.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:34.456000+08:00","text":"才能夠說服大家要怎麼去執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:36.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:50.807000+08:00","text":"第二個，部長，相較於產假跟育嬰留停這種比較長的假別，企業當然還有機會找替代人力，可是陪產假、育兒假、彈性工時的這種短期臨時的需求，工作往往就會直接轉嫁到其他同仁的身上。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:51.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:59.894000+08:00","text":"所以，勞動部這次提出來的職務代理津貼方向是對的，可是我要問部長，每天800元是全額發給職務代理的勞工嗎？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:59.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:00.534000+08:00","text":"勞工怎麼拿得到？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:02.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:06.039000+08:00","text":"勞動部會不會有清楚的指引，以確保津貼真的拿到勞工手上？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:06.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:10.884000+08:00","text":"如果雇主沒有發、少發或挪作他用的話，有沒有查核跟處理的機制？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:11.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:21.635000+08:00","text":"我當然要追問，有時候不是一個人代理，搞不好是分散到很多人代理的話，是不是可以按比例分給不同的同事，還是只能指定一個職務代理人來領？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:24.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:39.245000+08:00","text":"跟委員補充說明，這個津貼其實就是希望雇主真的付給了職代那個同事，薪資單上面要明確的有職代津貼這樣的薪資名目，我們才會發給補貼到雇主身上。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:40.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:45.011000+08:00","text":"現在的設計上不會只限一名職代，但會有一定的人數上限……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:45.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:47.153000+08:00","text":"所以有彈性。是。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:48.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:03.845000+08:00","text":"下一個我要問的是，部長這次規劃育兒減工時不減薪，並搭配職務代理津貼跟新聘替代人力的補助，我同樣非常支持這樣的方向，可是要請教是，政策不能只看補助金額，還要看職場能不能真正執行。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:04.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:18.435000+08:00","text":"現在依據企業規模，新聘替代人力有2萬元的招募訓練補助，請問部長，這種替代人力的運用，勞動部有沒有針對不同產業、不同職類進行可行性盤點？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:18.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:44.330000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，其實我們有跟企業界討論過，如果遇到比較長時間的請休，比方像勞工請產假請休，或者是育嬰留停的請休，比較不容易是依靠同事長期職代的狀況，所以可能就會需要臨時的替代人力，或者可能是定期契約的方式。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:45.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:59.408000+08:00","text":"企業跟我們說他們其實願意新聘替代人力，但是每個新聘替代的人力，可能還是都會有一定的訓練上手時間，所以我們這次的補助，就是補助企業要新聘人力前面的訓練成本。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:01.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:57:25.219000+08:00","text":"針對不同的行業，當然會有不同的人才需求，這個部分我們願意跟各目的事業主管機關來討論，比方說，也許會有一些是幼保人員，也許有一些是商業銷售人員，可能會有不同的狀況，的確它的樣態會蠻多的，可能要跟各目的事業主管機關來討論。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:25.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:57:31.429000+08:00","text":"但據我所知，現在的確是有一些企業也在做這樣的準備，也讓他的人才庫pool可以更具彈性。好。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:32.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:57:39.074000+08:00","text":"我先請教育部學前教育署副組長林淑敏，我要問的是什麼呢？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:39.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:18.423000+08:00","text":"也就是今天在你們自己的報告都有寫，因為要針對於……因為教育現場事實上具特殊性，應該要考量學生的受教權，政府的……現在你也自己講說要針對各場域不同身分人員適用的衡平性，為什麼學前教育署……因為在幼兒園部分，我們過去在做不當對待調查的時候，最常發現教師幾乎是沒辦法請假，過度負擔，還要去肩負其他請假人的工作，幼教現場事實上是一個蘿蔔一個坑，你們現在是說建請審慎評估，不是你們要去評估嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:20.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:22.204000+08:00","text":"接下來你們會去做評估嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:22.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:25.311000+08:00","text":"應該不是勞動部評估，是你們要評估，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林副組長淑敏","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:25.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:27.897000+08:00","text":"是，我們就這個部分會再一起討論跟評估。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:29.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:38.719000+08:00","text":"好，請呂次長，一樣的，就是教育部還有寫說要評估，可是我好像沒有看到你們要評估，為什麼？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:38.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:44.782000+08:00","text":"你們還有托嬰中心喔，托嬰中心幾乎都是女性在擔負，如果他一旦請假的話，你怎麼去做？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:45.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:48.123000+08:00","text":"我完全沒有看到，你們只是講說可以去考慮。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:48.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:58.387000+08:00","text":"甚至你們還有社工，社工還有個案對於社工的信任度，如果有人來代理的時候，你們怎麼去處理這部分？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:00.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:01.271000+08:00","text":"OK，是不是請……好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:05.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:28.271000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，托嬰中心現在在設置的規定上面，除了設置標準要求的基本人力之外，也要求要有相對應的備用、後備人力，所以，如果工作人力一旦因為請假等等部分會有人來處理，而且第二點是因為現在在公托制度下……","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:29.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:39.019000+08:00","text":"署長，我先打斷你，公立的我相信都沒有問題，它有護士、主任，甚至有一個行政人力，現在搭配是這樣，但是私立的是完全沒有。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:39.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:46.466000+08:00","text":"如果有100個嬰兒，它要搭配的老師大概二、三十個，這樣子的請假，你怎麼去應對？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:46.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:02.235000+08:00","text":"因為即便是兒托法也沒有要求托嬰中心要有餘裕的人力，私立幼兒園也是同樣的問題，只有1個園長，如果5個老師請假，要怎麼去搭配這些人力？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:04.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:09.519000+08:00","text":"包含非營利幼兒園，的確非營利幼兒園有兩個行政人力，那要看規模，90個人以上才有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:11.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:40.977000+08:00","text":"我覺得除了兩部都要去盤點以外，我也建請勞動部應該針對產業要有替代人力的協助平臺，同樣教育部跟衛福部也要有，畢竟托嬰中心跟幼兒園都是照顧比較年幼的孩子，我們不希望老師在過度負擔之後，可能產生情緒上的壓迫感，讓人也會擔心可能對孩子有一些不利的情形，所以請兩部去配合勞動部。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:41.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:53.684000+08:00","text":"我們會跟幾個目的事業主管機關，尤其是教育部跟衛福部來討論，請大家在人力的pool上面，有沒有一個更彈性可以調度的設置及準備空間。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:53.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:54.025000+08:00","text":"好，再麻煩，其他兩部先請回。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:56.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:00.627000+08:00","text":"部長，除了少子化以外，我覺得我們也面臨高齡化的挑戰啦！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:00.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:19.670000+08:00","text":"我們今天只有就育兒部分討論，可是我之前也一直有跟部長質詢過，就是能不能像日本的介護政策一樣，六成的有薪安排假，不是每一年都要給，只是要有這樣一個所謂的長照安排假。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:21.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:25.471000+08:00","text":"部長，我上次講說3個月要提出試辦計畫，目前的進度是什麼？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:26.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:29.756000+08:00","text":"長照3.0上路半年了，需求評估出來了嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:29.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:31.017000+08:00","text":"如果出來的話，目前規劃是什麼？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:31.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:34.041000+08:00","text":"不見得一定要30天，可是一定要給，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:34.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:41.469000+08:00","text":"因為也不是每一年都要給，而是如果被評估已經要進入長照體系的時候，他需要這個長照安排假。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:42.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:55.378000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，這部分我說實話，的確我們還是要跟衛福部來討論在長照上面的需求情境啦，但這部分我們還正在跟衛福部討論中……","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:55.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:56.839000+08:00","text":"好，只剩1個月的時間，就麻煩部長可能要儘快。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:59.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:17.626000+08:00","text":"因為還是必須要去確認，尤其現在長照3.0，就我知道也是陸續地部分上路，在這陸續部分上路的情況下，未來整體的需求情形假設有所謂的空窗，這空窗的樣態跟長短是什麼樣子？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:18.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:19.227000+08:00","text":"這部分真的還是需要從服務這邊來給予……","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:20.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:24.148000+08:00","text":"好，麻煩部長，要在1個月內趕快交了，因為只剩下1個月的時間。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:24.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:36.252000+08:00","text":"最後就是勞動部勞動力發展署桃竹苗分署公告，苗栗就業中心的北苗台因建物老舊漏水已經暫停服務，民眾要改到苗栗就業中心。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:36.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:46.495000+08:00","text":"勞動部的說法是說新舊站距離只有2公里，而北苗台本來就是小型據點，服務績效也不好，勞動部回應說每個月才5個人次。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:47.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:51.436000+08:00","text":"那我要追問的是，到底是績效不好還是苗栗市沒有就業服務需求？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:51.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:54.957000+08:00","text":"還是勞動部的服務設計沒有把人找出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:54.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:56.478000+08:00","text":"因為我認為苗栗市不是沒有需求喔！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:56.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:22.996000+08:00","text":"苗栗市65歲以上的人口已經占了兩成了，這代表中高齡就業跟婦女重返職場、長照的照顧人力、弱勢家庭的就業支持，這都不是抽象問題，所以請部長具體說明兩件事情，如果現在沒辦法立刻說明的話，就請勞動部1個月內提供給我報告：第一，北苗台過去三年的每年服務人次、求職登記數、推介就業數跟成功媒合率是多少？","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:23.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:27.600000+08:00","text":"和苗栗就業中心相比的話差多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:28.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:30.681000+08:00","text":"第二，勞動部有沒有分析過績效不好的原因？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:31.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:39.084000+08:00","text":"是民眾沒有需求、宣導不足，還是交通不便、服務時間不適合，還是服務項目不符合中高齡跟弱勢求職者的需求？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:39.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:43.145000+08:00","text":"如果長期服務人次低落，為什麼沒有提早處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:44.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:46.587000+08:00","text":"能不能建立一套服務可近性的評估標準？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:47.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:56.431000+08:00","text":"假設服務據點的品質跟服務的天數不是那麼完整，或是一直沒有民眾來，是不是應該定期檢討並提出具體的改善措施？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:57.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:58.372000+08:00","text":"是，委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:58.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:21.067000+08:00","text":"我想主要應該考量北苗就業服務台的功能定位，因為它是在辦理簡易的求才、求職業務，不是在提供事業給付認定，也不是在做職涯諮詢，它距離苗栗就業中心只有2公里，也就是說車程只有5分鐘，所以民眾很自然地會選擇苗栗就業中心去辦理業務。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:21.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:37.118000+08:00","text":"每個禮拜有2天提供服務，每個月的服務人次因為低於5人，我們認為效益實在不是很佳，目前已經先暫停營運，剛剛委員所說的後續方面，我們對於設點的部分可能需要更科學……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:37.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:43.646000+08:00","text":"署長，我不是反對據點整併，可是不能用距離2公里跟績效不好作為理由。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:44.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:48.392000+08:00","text":"因為績效不好，所以我剛剛跟你講說為什麼提出這兩點，請你們提供報告。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:49.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:53.017000+08:00","text":"如果用績效不好為理由，是沒有貼切到他們的服務需求嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:54.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:55.959000+08:00","text":"委員，這樣子好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:56.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:17.691000+08:00","text":"我認為今天針對這個區域包括整體的需求狀況，我覺得可能不是看一個單點，而是整體的需求狀況跟服務資源如何整合能夠更有效，這部分給我們1個月的時間再去做個評估，我直接請我們同仁去委員辦公室說明，這樣好不好？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:18.191000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:20.191000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，謝謝。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:20.491000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:26.205286+08:00","text":"謝謝林月琴召委的發言，也謝謝各部官員的答詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:26.505286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:29.648143+08:00","text":"下一位請陳菁徽委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}