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部長早部長在上個禮拜的時候有一個互動資通公司是它旗下有一個企業的簡訊平台Everybody是那在5月26號的那一天呢它發出一個聲明我覺得這個聲明本席看起來覺得非常嚴重是它表示呢它遭到了駭客的入侵"},{"start":33.834,"end":54.994,"text":"而且這個駭客還在暗網當中去販售相關的個資那重要的是這個簡訊公司它在全台灣市佔率是第一所以它的服務對象涵蓋著銀行政府機關上市櫃企業醫療院所甚至於一般民眾也非常的多所以呢以上這些項目我們就知道涵蓋的層面影響的層面非常的廣"},{"start":56.095,"end":79.762,"text":"那麼這個速發部在5月30本席也看到你發了一個新聞稿說你會在6月2號到該公司做行政檢查同時你會去要求這個業者說如果資料有洩漏的話那應該要儘速讓當事人知悉然後讓當事人方便採取補救的措施那你也說了說請他們要發布治安的警訊讓我們的政府機關去評估這個風險還有回報的處理情形"},{"start":83.283,"end":90.191,"text":"看似在這個新聞稿上好像做了一些完整的回應跟處理但是我覺得當中還有很多地方是需要來檢討的第一個呢影響這麼大的一個簡訊平台他被害了他自己在5月26號發布聲明5月26號那一天如果沒有記錯應該是禮拜二吧"},{"start":102.845,"end":122.666,"text":"還是上班時間內但是速發部一直在5月29號其實本席當時辦公室跟速發部反映這件事情並要求是不是能讓我們了解一下速發部對這件事情的處理跟了解的狀況到哪裡但是部長很遺憾的是速發部的同仁回覆我辦公室說這不是我們的業務可能要問經濟部"},{"start":124.347,"end":145.083,"text":"這是像過去本席所說的常常抒發部遇到一些狀況的時候都說哎呀這是警政署喔那我就比較不理解就抒發部如果遇到事情同仁都說要嘛就是警政署沒有處理好要嘛可能是經濟部來處理那我不知道抒發部扮演的角色是什麼那再來既然5月29號那天就跟你提完以後所以5月30我們看到這個新聞稿出來喔"},{"start":147.965,"end":161.118,"text":"對於回復本席的這個要求算快但是呢對於5月26號這件這麼重大一個私人事件來說我覺得有一點慢到離譜喔那麼所以我想這個請問一下部長喔5月26號那個時間點喔您這裡第一時間有沒有掌握"},{"start":166.523,"end":184.549,"text":"這件事情我們的確速發部有改進的空間因為26號這個事情發生以後的確一開始我們的許多同仁們對於說這個事情的責任歸屬到底是誰就是說花了一些時間在討論後來我知道以後我就馬上跟他們講說不管這個事情是怎樣我們先處理我們這邊速發部該處理的就處理"},{"start":187.19,"end":211.1,"text":"那委員也看到我們在後來就是應該就是5月30號就發布那個新聞稿那個就是我要求我們同仁馬上就去處理先不要管說這個事情到底是書發部是通傳會或者經濟部以我們政府來講就是一體的該處理就是處理那件事情的話就是如同我們在新聞稿裡面我們分三方面來處理第一個就是我們去做這個我剛剛本席剛剛已經說過了那重點是5月26號那個時間第一時間你們有沒有掌握"},{"start":216.79,"end":244.573,"text":"我們這個事情是有掌握只是因為這個是一個簡訊代發的平台那簡訊代發平台他的作業過程是說他的客戶把這個電話就因為他是一個簡訊代發的平台你要知道有多少個資在他的手上這非常嚴重的嘛沒錯好 那麼你發了這三個聲明說我要做這三項措施喔那第一個喔你說6月2號要到這家公司做行政檢查那不曉得現在檢查的情況是怎麼樣是 這件事情我們是不是請那個庶產署署長來說明"},{"start":246.014,"end":268.984,"text":"重點說明好嗎那我簡單的說明就是我們6月2號有去那也有發現這個是個自然事件那他這個自然事件有沒有攻擊到有保存各自的伺服器的話目前的資料還沒辦法知道所以我們正在請他補充資料我們要來釐清他有沒有各自外洩的一個情況那目前他目前所提供的資料所以你們是到他公司去還是電話聯絡我們是到他公司"},{"start":271.405,"end":290.014,"text":"有沒有說請了法律、資安專家 目前我們請了法律、資安專家 甚至刑事警察局也去了那目前他的資料還沒有辦法判斷 無法掌握那所以如果我今天要請教一下說 到現在為止啊 到底知道有多少企業或有多少這些使用的人 那他的資料被外洩 我們現在是一無所知 是嗎"},{"start":291.295,"end":306.256,"text":"目前的資料沒有辦法判斷不過應該行政警察局那邊還沒有接到相關的這個各式外洩的通報所以我們目前也是在緊鑼密鼓的要求廠商提供資料緊鑼密鼓嗎是我們請他進駐提供資料我們要來釐清是"},{"start":307.228,"end":334.506,"text":"好應該這樣講啦就是我們洋洋灑灑的說這三大點要做但是呢我們到底就是做了沒有做到什麼程度得到什麼樣的效益喔而不是新聞稿發了就沒有了那再來我想請教一下剛剛有提到嘛部長我們現在有很多的這個政府單位也跟這家公司是有合作的不曉得速發部有沒有掌握我們現在有多少的這個政府單位這個機關是跟他們有合作的那這當中有沒有這個資料外洩"},{"start":335.326,"end":352.911,"text":"我們現在最關心的就是說目前公務部門有26個公務部門使用他們的服務非公務部門有695個總共他們有721個主要客戶這個是我們掌握到的您可以再說一次嗎"},{"start":354.331,"end":377.721,"text":"有26個公務部門是使用他們的服務但是我們現在最重要就是111那個簡訊政府的簡訊並沒有用他們的所以這個是很多民眾最關心的一部分那個部長我其實覺得你的同仁平常跟你相處的好嗎還算不錯吧還算不錯那我怎麼覺得常常他提供給你的資料跟提供本辦的資料都是不一致的"},{"start":380.056,"end":390.502,"text":"這個我不知道提供是什麼資料請說明他到底是對您不滿還是對我辦公室不滿應該不至於吧現在我手上看到的資料就是你現在跟政府機關合作的其實有68個機關啊對不對"},{"start":393.77,"end":412.717,"text":"跟委員報告就是說68個機關是我們從政府機關那邊他們請他們去回報的那剛剛部長報告的是說是我們去調查那個互動之中所提供的資料所以這個並不是說資料來源是一樣的你要把它整合好給部長啊對那因為好是的那因為時間的關係不一樣因為我們是在上禮拜"},{"start":413.517,"end":435.684,"text":"不管是什麼原因你都要給一個正確的數字嘛那這很嚴重啊如果我們政府部門我們自己的機關到底有多少在使用這家平台而這家平台是被害了政府部門這國家安全耶是不是這樣的數字你們提供給部長跟提供給本辦委員辦公室都是不一致的那你往下面你怎麼查怎麼確定你將來查的資訊是正確的所以我覺得這個以後不可以發生喔資料資訊是怎麼樣你要整合好再給部長"},{"start":443.126,"end":468.628,"text":"不要讓部長在這裡每一次打詢啊這個資料都有出錯我覺得這樣是不對的好不好所以呢你告訴本辦說我們現在有68個機關嘛那目前有36個機關去把它停用了另外有32個機關也進行了這個簡訊平台密碼的一個更新嘛那本席要講的就是說如果只是進行密碼更新足不足以應付這一次駭客這個入侵我想書發部啊部長"},{"start":470.935,"end":496.993,"text":"這個回頭內部可能還要螺絲拴緊一點那蘇發布作為我們資訊安全的中央主管機關有這樣的事情我覺得第一時間要掌握好不好接下來呢也是很重要的事情我們這個Facebook跟這個IG的某公司Meta嘛他現在被美國加州告上法院這事情部長知道而且呢他說了Meta公司是在知情的情況下刻意的從大量詐騙廣告中獲取巨額收益"},{"start":500.755,"end":514.541,"text":"甚至於在Meta公司自己外流的內部文件當中都還有透露說這個費用他還把它列為違規收入那甚至於提到說Meta內部有一套機制只要這個反詐騙抓得太兇會影響到他這筆收入的話這個系統就會自動降低詐騙的查核力道"},{"start":520.723,"end":522.784,"text":"我覺得這件事非常嚴重我們看到近年來台灣的詐騙可以說是人人深惡痛絕 層數不窮那現在看到從這個Meta的IG很多的假投資 假名人代言或電商購物等等許多人都被騙"},{"start":536.792,"end":557.311,"text":"那我們在看到警政署的詐騙儀表板上面他說平均每一天被詐騙的金額高達超過一億甚至於本席看了一下在6月1號當日就破了一億六千萬的被詐騙的金額所以非常可怕那書法部看起來部長剛才針對Meta現在被告到法院去是知道的"},{"start":559.073,"end":571.789,"text":"這個非常不應該我們的立場非常嚴重我們這個立場事實上跟加州這個法院事實上是一樣的過去在一年多以來我們也是我們也對META的一些行為我們開罰而且我們跟他強力的溝通認為他們不應該這樣做"},{"start":574.079,"end":598.699,"text":"當然不應該啊 絕對不應該啊但是呢現在是這樣講喔我們都知道不管在台灣或者是在美國手上法律有點曠日廢時啦所以呢現在大家判決出來之前有空窗嘛那這個空窗你要怎麼去應對這件事情我們基本上是從兩方面一方面是透過美國政府的溝通因為在過去一年多以來每次遇到那個美國政府的官員或者是那個國會議員來台灣的時候提到就是說台灣對於這個反"},{"start":602.603,"end":620.739,"text":"假訊息還有詐騙訊息的怎樣應處的時候我總是可以跟他們提到這件事情就是說我們現在一個很大的問題來源就是來自於貴國的那個Meta這家公司那另外我們也透過這個輿論的力量就是包含美國的輿論我們就是要要求Meta他一定要改善那我們也去跟他做道德勸說這個商業道德勸說"},{"start":623.541,"end":644.501,"text":"我聽起來就是你不斷在呼籲跟道德勸說我們實際上已經要求他有改進了但是這個呼籲跟道德勸說看起來力道還是不太夠他們現在已經用他們的那個AI去訓練以後去主動去移除那個去年到夏天就已經移除了780萬則我同意還是要有作為啦但是我們去看喔"},{"start":644.841,"end":665.115,"text":"不管我們行政院打詐中心我們就像您剛剛說的我們要求Meta可能還要修改他的演算法他可能要去重複詐騙內容這個識別的機制建立官方身份驗證等等我們都有在做但是第一個Meta到底有沒有遵守第二個Meta到底做了多少我們要求他做到100分那他做了百分之多少"},{"start":665.646,"end":693.501,"text":"是 我們現在對他們的那個作為還是不是很滿意但是至少是他有在進步了就如同我剛剛講的去年七月他們就已經跟我們講說他們已經下架針對台灣的詐騙訊息已經下架七百八十萬則那現在已經又過了一年但應該是超過千萬則了就像您說的我們有要求但是我們也不太滿意嘛但你身上有一個武器餒我怕你忘記了我當然提醒你一下你看依照現行的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中我們有規定"},{"start":694.562,"end":713.108,"text":"就是網路這個廣告平台業者他應該要去揭露廣告刊登跟出資者相關的訊息如果有這種詐騙的那他應該要去主動下架但是如果沒有做到的話我們可以處罰他那違法我們可以出50萬到1000萬以下的罰款可是情節重大的話我們可以處罰新台幣250萬到1億以下的罰款那你開罰了多少次"},{"start":718.15,"end":737.8,"text":"我們現在四次了四次開發多少金額17850萬這樣算多嗎不算多我們這個不能說是多也是少因為這個事情就是依法去處理但是也跟委員報告現在其實最討厭的是說因為我們這個法律都是管廣告"},{"start":738.34,"end":759.989,"text":"但是他現在一些詐騙已經流竄到Thread平台上面Thread平台上面那不是廣告那是UGC user generated content我們法律事實上沒辦法去處罰那個地方那個地方也是全世界所有的政府覺得最頭大的一些部分因為我們必須在打詐跟保護民眾的言論自由當中我們取得一個平衡點我想最後一點提醒你一下因為我們超過時間蠻久了"},{"start":764.07,"end":789.62,"text":"這個Meta被起訴的這個文件當中我們看到一個數字就是他的違規收入其實高達了兩千兩百億台幣所以我們現在這樣罰他就四次然後就一千八百五十萬我覺得對他來說不痛不癢啦沒有這個罰還的這個大刀在手上我希望大刀闊斧啦如果真的有這個情節重大該重罰就要重罰啦那不要輕重好不好是 謝謝委員的支持好 以上 謝謝 加油啦"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:31:29.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:31:29.062000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:31:29.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:31:32.291000+08:00","text":"我們有請數發部的林宜敬部長。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T09:31:32.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:31:33.074000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:31:40.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:31:41.478000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:31:41.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:31:42.058000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:31:42.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:31:55.771000+08:00","text":"部長，在上個禮拜的時候，有一個互動資通公司，它旗下有一個企業的簡訊平臺EVERY8D，在5月26日那一天它發出一個聲明，本席看了這個聲明，我覺得非常嚴重。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:31:56.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:32:19.994000+08:00","text":"它表示遭到駭客入侵，而且這個駭客還在暗網當中去販售相關的個資，重要的是，這個簡訊公司在全臺灣市占率是第一，它的服務對象涵蓋了銀行、政府機關、上市櫃企業、醫療院所，甚至於一般民眾也非常多，所以從以上這些項目，我們就知道涵蓋的層面、影響層面非常廣。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:32:22.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:32:53.789000+08:00","text":"數發部在5月30日，本席也看到你發了一個新聞稿，說會在6月2日到該公司做行政檢查，同時會要求這個業者，如果資料有洩漏的話，應該要儘速讓當事人知悉，讓當事人方便採取補救措施；你也說了請他們要發布資安的警訊，讓我們的政府機關去評估這個風險，還有回報處理情形，看似在這個新聞稿上好像做了一些完整的回應跟處理，但是我覺得當中還有很多地方是需要檢討的。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:32:53.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:33:21.739000+08:00","text":"第一個，影響這麼大的一個簡訊平臺被駭了，它自己在5月26日發布聲明，5月26日那天如果沒有記錯，應該是禮拜二吧，還是上班時間內，但是數發部一直在5月29日……其實當時本席辦公室跟數發部反映這件事情，並要求是不是能讓我們了解一下，數發部對這件事情的處理跟了解的狀況到哪裡？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:33:21.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:33:27.646000+08:00","text":"但是部長，很遺憾的是，數發部的同仁回復我辦公室：這不是我們的業務，可能要問經濟部。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:33:29.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:33:45.600000+08:00","text":"這就像過去本席所說的，常常數發部遇到一些狀況的時候，都說這是警政署，我就比較不理解，數發部如果遇到事情，同仁要麼就說是警政署沒有處理好，要麼可能是經濟部來處理，我不知道數發部扮演的角色是什麼！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:33:46.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:34:02.735000+08:00","text":"5月29日那天跟你提完以後，5月30日我們看到這個新聞稿出來，對於回復本席的這個要求算快，但是對於5月26日這件這麼重大的資安事件來說，我覺得有一點慢到離譜。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:34:03.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:34:06.098000+08:00","text":"所以我想請問部長，5月26日那個時間點，您這裡第一時間有沒有掌握？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:34:11.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:34:48.717000+08:00","text":"這件事情的確我們數發部有改進的空間，因為26日這個事情發生以後，的確一開始我們許多同仁們對於這個事情的責任歸屬到底是誰，花了一些時間在討論，後來我知道以後，我就馬上跟他們講，不管這個事情是怎樣，我們先處理，我們數發部該處理的就處理，委員也看到我們後來就在5月30日發布新聞稿，那個就是我要求我們同仁馬上處理的，先不要管這個事情到底是數發部、是通傳會或經濟部，以我們政府來講，就是一體的，該處理就是處理。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:34:49.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:34:55.460000+08:00","text":"那件事情如同我們在新聞稿裡面……我們分三方面處理，第一個就是我們去做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:34:55.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:34:56.080000+08:00","text":"這個剛剛本席已經說過了，重點是5月26日那個時間，第一時間你們有沒有掌握？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:02.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:11.238000+08:00","text":"這件事情有掌握，因為這個是一個簡訊代發的平臺，簡訊代發平臺的作業過程是它的客戶把這個……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:11.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:15.461000+08:00","text":"部長，就因為它是一個簡訊代發的平臺，你要知道有多少個資在它的手上，這非常嚴重的嘛！","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:15.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:16.142000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:16.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:27.351000+08:00","text":"好，那麼你發了這三個聲明要做這三項措施，第一個，你說6月20日要到這家公司做行政檢查，不曉得現在檢查的情況是怎麼樣？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:27.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:29.553000+08:00","text":"是，這件事情我們是不是請數產署署長來說明？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:31.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:32.055000+08:00","text":"重點說明，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:32.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:33.215000+08:00","text":"好，我簡單扼要的說明。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:33.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:50.162000+08:00","text":"我們6月2日有去，也有發現這是個資安事件，這個資安事件有沒有攻擊到保存個資的伺服器，目前的資料還沒辦法知道，所以我們正在請它補充資料，我們要來釐清有沒有個資外洩的情況。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:50.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:52.183000+08:00","text":"目前它所提供的資料還沒有辦法……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:52.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:53.684000+08:00","text":"你們是到公司去，還是電話聯絡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:53.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:56.405000+08:00","text":"我們是到公司，我們也有請法律……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:56.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:35:57.205000+08:00","text":"現在還沒有辦法掌握？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-06-03T09:35:58.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:03.989000+08:00","text":"目前我們請了法律專家，甚至刑事警察局也去了，目前資料還沒辦法判斷……","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:03.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:04.449000+08:00","text":"無法掌握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:05.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:15.014000+08:00","text":"所以我今天要請教一下，到現在為止，有多少企業或有多少使用的人的資料被外洩，我們現在是一無所知，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:16.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:26.870000+08:00","text":"目前的資料沒有辦法判斷，不過刑事警察局應該還沒有接到相關個資外洩的通報，所以我們目前也是緊鑼密鼓地要求廠商提供。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:27.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:28.052000+08:00","text":"緊鑼密鼓嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:28.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:30.816000+08:00","text":"是，我們請它儘速提供資料，我們要來釐清。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:32.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:42.014000+08:00","text":"好，應該這樣講，你們洋洋灑灑地說這三大點要做，但是到底做了沒有、做到什麼程度、得到什麼樣的效益？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:42.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:43.996000+08:00","text":"而不是新聞稿發了就沒有了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:44.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:57.484000+08:00","text":"再來，我想請教一下，部長，剛剛有提到我們現在有很多政府單位也跟這家公司是有合作的，不曉得數發部有沒有掌握，現在有多少政府單位、機關是跟他們有合作的？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:36:58.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:36:59.506000+08:00","text":"這當中有沒有資料外洩？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:00.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:16.910000+08:00","text":"我們現在最關心的就是目前有26個公部門使用他們的服務，非公務部門有695個，他們總共有721個主要客戶，這是我們掌握到的。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:17.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:17.911000+08:00","text":"您可以再說一次嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:19.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:30.796000+08:00","text":"有26個公務部門是使用他們的服務，但是我們現在最重要就是111的政府簡訊並沒有用他們的，這個是很多民眾最關心的一部分。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:31.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:36.718000+08:00","text":"部長，你的同仁平常跟你相處得好嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:36.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:37.099000+08:00","text":"還算不錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:37.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:38.439000+08:00","text":"還算不錯喔！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:38.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:42.701000+08:00","text":"我怎麼覺得常常他們提供給你的資料跟提供本辦的資料都是不一致的？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:45.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:46.496000+08:00","text":"我不知道是提供什麼資料。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:47.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:50.519000+08:00","text":"他到底是對您不滿，還是對我辦公室不滿？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:50.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:50.919000+08:00","text":"應該不至於吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:51.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:37:55.502000+08:00","text":"現在我手上看到的資料，現在跟政府機關合作的其實有68個機關，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡署長福隆","start":"2026-06-03T09:37:58.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:12.535000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，68個機關是我們請政府機關回報的，剛剛部長報告的是我們去調查互動資通所提供的資料，所以這個並不是指資料來源是一樣的。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:12.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:14.176000+08:00","text":"你要把它整合好給部長啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡署長福隆","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:15.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:17.697000+08:00","text":"是的，因為時間的關係不一樣，因為委員是在上禮拜……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:18.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:21.218000+08:00","text":"不管是什麼原因，你都要給一個正確的數字嘛！是。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:22.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:32.081000+08:00","text":"這很嚴重啊，如果我們政府部門、我們自己的機關到底有多少在使用這家平臺，而這家平臺被駭了，政府部門……這涉及國家安全，是不是？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:32.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:38.603000+08:00","text":"這樣的數字，你們提供給部長跟提供給委員辦公室都是不一致的，那往下面要怎麼查？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:38.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:39.543000+08:00","text":"怎麼確定將來查的資訊是正確的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:39.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:52.970000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個以後不可以發生，資料、資訊是怎麼樣，你要整合好再給部長，不要讓部長在這裡每一次答詢，資料都有出錯，我覺得這樣是不對的，好不好？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"蔡署長福隆","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:52.970000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:38:54.111000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員指導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:38:54.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:39:05.221000+08:00","text":"你告訴本辦現在有68個機關，目前有36個機關停用了，另外有32個機關也進行了簡訊平臺密碼更新。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:39:06.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:39:12.127000+08:00","text":"本席要講的就是，如果只是進行密碼更新，足不足以應付這一次駭客入侵？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:39:12.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:39:24.001000+08:00","text":"部長，我想回頭數發部內部可能螺絲還要拴緊一點，數發部作為我們資訊安全的中央主管機關，有這樣的事情，我覺得第一時間要掌握，好不好？是。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:39:24.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:39:33.967000+08:00","text":"接下來也是很重要的事情，Facebook跟IG的母公司Meta現在被美國加州告上法院，這件事情部長知道嗎？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:39:33.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:39:34.968000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:39:34.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:39:59.521000+08:00","text":"而且它說Meta公司是在知情的情況下，刻意從大量詐騙廣告中獲取巨額收益，甚至於在Meta公司自己外流的內部文件當中都透露，把這個費用列為違規收入，甚至於提到Meta內部有一套機制，只要反詐騙抓得太兇，會影響到這筆收入的話，系統就會自動降低詐騙的查核力道。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:05.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:06.443000+08:00","text":"我覺得這件事非常嚴重，我們看到近年來臺灣的詐騙可以說是層出不窮，人人深惡痛絕。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:06.443000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:07.443000+08:00","text":"是，完全同意。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:06.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:07.784000+08:00","text":"現在看到在Meta、IG很多假投資、假名人代言或電商購物等等，許多人都被騙。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:22.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:36.246000+08:00","text":"我們再看到警政署的詐騙儀錶板，它說平均每一天被詐騙的金額超過1億，甚至本席看了6月1號當日，被詐騙的金額就破了1億6,000萬，所以非常可怕！","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:38.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:42.291000+08:00","text":"看起來部長針對Meta現在被告到法院這件事是知道的嘛，可是……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:44.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:44.774000+08:00","text":"是，這個非常不應該。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:45.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:45.876000+08:00","text":"非常嚴重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:46.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:40:56.769000+08:00","text":"我們的立場跟加州法院事實上是一樣的，過去一年多以來，我們也對Meta的一些行為開罰，而且我們跟它強力地溝通，認為他們不應該這樣做。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:40:59.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:00.540000+08:00","text":"當然不應該，絕對不應該啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:01.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:01.601000+08:00","text":"他們現在是有一些改進。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:02.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:07.306000+08:00","text":"但是我們都知道，不管在臺灣或者是在美國，走上法律有點曠日費時。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:07.306000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:08.707000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:08.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:12.890000+08:00","text":"現在在判決出來之前有空窗，這個空窗你要怎麼去應對這件事情？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:13.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:36.490000+08:00","text":"我們基本上是從兩方面，一方面是透過美國政府的溝通，因為在過去一年多以來，每次遇到美國政府的官員或者是國會議員來臺灣的時候，提到臺灣對於假訊息還有詐騙訊息是怎麼樣應處，我總是跟他們提到這件事情，我們現在很大的一個問題就是來自於貴國的Meta公司。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:37.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:45.739000+08:00","text":"另外，我們也透過輿論的力量，包含美國的輿論，要求Meta一定要改善，我們也跟它做道德勸說，還有商業上的勸說。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:48.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:50.603000+08:00","text":"好，我聽起來就是你不斷地在呼籲跟道德勸說，但是……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:51.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:53.105000+08:00","text":"實際上我們有去要求，它有改進了。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:53.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:41:57.249000+08:00","text":"但是這個呼籲跟道德勸說看起來力道還是不太夠。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:41:57.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:05.857000+08:00","text":"他們現在已經用他們的AI去訓練主動移除，去年到夏天就已經移除了780萬針對臺灣的詐騙訊息。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:05.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:07.899000+08:00","text":"我同意，但你還是要有作為啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:07.899000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:08.899000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:08.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:22.550000+08:00","text":"但是我們去看，不管是行政院打詐中心……就像您剛剛說的，我們要求Meta，它可能還要修改它的演算法、建立重複詐騙內容識別機制及官方身分驗證等等，我們都有在做。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:22.550000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:23.550000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:23.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:25.392000+08:00","text":"但是第一個，Meta到底有沒有遵守？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:25.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:27.053000+08:00","text":"第二個，Meta到底做了多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:27.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:30.095000+08:00","text":"我們要求它做到100分，它做了百分之多少？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:31.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:36.029000+08:00","text":"我們現在對他們的作為還不是很滿意，但是至少它有在進步了。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:36.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:47.175000+08:00","text":"如同我剛才講的，去年7月他們就已經跟我們說，針對臺灣的詐騙訊息已經下架780萬則，現在又過了一年，應該是超過1,000萬則了。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:47.175000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:48.175000+08:00","text":"好，我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:47.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:51.257000+08:00","text":"部長，就像您說的，我們有要求，但是我們也不太滿意嘛，但你手上有一個武器耶！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:52.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:42:53.679000+08:00","text":"我怕你忘記了，我提醒你一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:42:54.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:43:17.748000+08:00","text":"你看，依照現行的詐欺犯罪危害防制條例，我們有規定廣告平臺業者應該要去揭露廣告刊登跟出資者相關的訊息，如果有這種詐騙的，它應該要主動下架，但是如果沒有做到的話，我們可以處罰它，違法我們可以處50萬到1,000萬以下罰鍰，情節重大的話，我們可以處新臺幣250萬到1億以下的罰鍰。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:43:17.748000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:43:18.748000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:43:17.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:43:18.088000+08:00","text":"那你開罰多少次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:43:23.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:43:27.012000+08:00","text":"我們現在罰4次了。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:43:29.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:43:30.514000+08:00","text":"4次，開罰了多少金額？1,850萬。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:43:30.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:43:32.535000+08:00","text":"這樣算多嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:43:33.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:04.168000+08:00","text":"這不能說是多、是少，因為這個事情就是依法去處理，但是也跟委員報告，現在其實最討厭的是，我們的法律都是管廣告，但是現在一些詐騙已經流竄到Threads平臺上面，但Threads平臺上面的不是廣告，而是UGC（User-Generated Content），我們的法律事實上沒辦法去處罰那個地方，那個地方也是全世界所有政府覺得最頭大的一個部分，因為我們必須在打詐跟保護民眾言論自由當中取得一個平衡點，但是我們會持續努力。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:04.168000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:05.168000+08:00","text":"好，部長，這個我理解了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:04.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:04.969000+08:00","text":"我想最後一點提醒你一下，因為我也超過時間滿久了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:09.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:27.077000+08:00","text":"在Meta被起訴的這個文件當中，我們看到一個數字，就是它的違規收入其實高達2,200億新臺幣，我們現在才罰它4次，才1,850萬，我覺得對它來說不痛不癢，你有罰鍰的這個大刀在手上，我希望你大刀闊斧啦！","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:27.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:32.779000+08:00","text":"如果真的情節重大，該重罰就要重罰，不要輕縱，好不好？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:32.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:33.399000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員的支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:33.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:34.220000+08:00","text":"好，以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:34.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:34.480000+08:00","text":"謝謝，加油！謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:34.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:37.837143+08:00","text":"謝謝萬美玲委員的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T09:44:38.137143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:44:41.280000+08:00","text":"接下來請陳清龍委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}