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10:07:50","會議時間":"2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。\n三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。\n四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算。\n五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算。\n六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金預算。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一至六預算提案截止收件時間：6月10日下午4時】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":4.334093750000001,"end":6.03846875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":6.19034375,"end":7.202843750000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":7.77659375,"end":8.603468750000001,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":18.45846875,"end":27.992843750000002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":28.144718750000003,"end":48.10784375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":49.03596875,"end":66.50159375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":57.304718750000006,"end":57.35534375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":67.14284375,"end":68.62784375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":69.26909375000001,"end":88.40534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":88.84409375,"end":97.58534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":97.88909375,"end":100.23471875000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":100.94346875000001,"end":119.57346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":119.74221875,"end":124.14659375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":124.56846875000001,"end":132.46596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":132.46596875,"end":142.84409375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":143.67096875000001,"end":198.90284375000002,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":197.72159375,"end":240.43221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":199.67909375000002,"end":200.15159375000002,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":201.36659375000002,"end":201.70409375000003,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":240.60096875000002,"end":259.06221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":243.72284375,"end":244.09409375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":259.50096875,"end":278.26596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":278.78909375,"end":292.18784375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":292.89659375,"end":310.48034375000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":311.08784375000005,"end":312.13409375000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":312.38721875000005,"end":322.68096875000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":322.05659375000005,"end":377.03534375000004,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":377.03534375000004,"end":402.97221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":379.88721875000005,"end":379.93784375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":390.36659375000005,"end":390.56909375000004,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":397.92659375000005,"end":398.02784375000005,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":398.02784375000005,"end":398.16284375000004,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":402.97221875,"end":437.39721875000004,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":437.39721875000004,"end":437.41409375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":438.35909375000006,"end":438.37596875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":438.37596875,"end":451.18409375000005,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":451.53846875000005,"end":469.30784375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":469.61159375000005,"end":479.75346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":479.93909375000004,"end":480.96846875000006,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員昆澤","start":481.6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請一下林益進部長好 請林部長"},{"start":18.496,"end":35.342,"text":"委員長部長好電子菸是新興毒品的一個核心的載具那我們看到衛福部國民健康署在1至4月有公布了一個官方的統計這個統計就是說針對網路違法販售電子菸他有進行監測下架了11425件的商品而且他針對境內外"},{"start":49.356,"end":68.205,"text":"違法網站啦實施了3361件的停止解析DNS的封鎖其實就是下架啦沒錯是那帳面的下架率啊他們官方的說法是99.3%是那其實我們看到他的"},{"start":69.358,"end":86.612,"text":"下架率 帳面的下架率說是99.3%但是實質的流通率啊 帳面下下架率跟實質流通率我認為是有很大的落差啦那因為我們看到檢警跟法務單位啊針對"},{"start":88.934,"end":99.481,"text":"近期查獲的一坨米子就是俗稱的喪屍煙彈是他這種新興毒品的案件最近的呈現"},{"start":100.99,"end":123.865,"text":"他是不減緩針啊不減緩針那我們看到很多起的毒價造成嚴重的傷亡案件也引起啊社會的憤怒跟討論那這顯示這種電子菸作為新興毒品的核心載具啊在黑市跟網路平台的實質流通力啊"},{"start":124.622,"end":141.925,"text":"已經不是現行的這些行政下架措施會得到有效的意志來讓你說明一下是委員說的沒錯我們知道現在在網路上這些賣電子菸或者是一些違法的毒品的這些還是在發生"},{"start":143.897,"end":170.023,"text":"這些在賣這些違法的電子菸和毒品的人他當然不會在網路上直接寫說我要請問你要不要買電子菸或者請問你要不要買伊托米紙他一定會用他的所謂的黑話譬如說他這個電子菸的那個菸具他叫做主機那我們就是通知那個所有電商平台就是做關鍵字的那個封鎖事實上這個是衛福部給我們所以現在那個你在網路上在一些電商平台上你搜尋主機他可能跟你講說沒辦法"},{"start":171.443,"end":198.541,"text":"然後一些那個毒品他們甚至於黑化就叫糖果所以是有一陣子我不知道現在是不是還是這樣就是說衛福部通知就是說這些電商透過我們通知電商平台就是網路上不能出現糖果這個單那個關鍵字那這個就是事實上所有這些這些問題都是貓捉老鼠的問題那我們必須取得一個平衡我們不能說過度的限制譬如說我在網路上真的就通常連糖果一般正常的糖果都買不到"},{"start":201.983,"end":221.332,"text":"目前數位部我認為只是採取打地鼠的這種執法的方式有沒有其他的這些防制的措施我們現在看到雖然數位部一直說要下架這些電子煙那相關的這些違法的販售網站"},{"start":222.672,"end":239.302,"text":"還是春風吹又生那我們現在所採取這些違法網站你用這種停止解析就是下架的處分只是一種事後的被動的一種追緝而已新興毒品的這些電子菸的賣家"},{"start":240.723,"end":258.479,"text":"他們其實數位能力也不會比你們差啦因為他利用這種境外的免息網域以及自動化的動態的DNS的這種轉值啊他在原網址被你們下架被你們封鎖的幾分鐘之內"},{"start":259.6,"end":277.588,"text":"他就在境外的伺服器無縫的重建網站那目前這種防治措施你們到底有什麼改善的方式那我們也希望說現在我們行政院也要提出相關的這一種"},{"start":279.269,"end":291.576,"text":"陰害防治法的修正草案就是要增訂網際網路業者風險管控機制要增訂這個部分其實我要提醒部長"},{"start":293.172,"end":309.55,"text":"電子業的權責機構是衛福部但是相關的主管相關下架的機關是數位部網路平台這些技術本質或是實名制或者是相關的這種跨境的管轄權"},{"start":311.158,"end":329.178,"text":"核心的主政業務都是在數位部那未來我們要針對這些修正你們相關的預計的執行計畫是怎樣簡單說明一下事實上委員剛剛已經指出幾個重點第一個是跨境第二個就是春風吹又生的這個問題因為"},{"start":330.92,"end":345.655,"text":"他那個一個網站如果被我們用DNSRPG的方式把它封住了他就趕快再去設一個新的網站所以我們現在那個能做的事情就是跟他比速度現在只要衛福部通知我們的那個TWNIC我們現在是在兩個小時之內就會馬上下架"},{"start":346.595,"end":374.977,"text":"所以那個就是說我們想衛福部那邊當然還有發現還有他那個認定的這個時間但是只要他一通知我們兩個小時就讓他下架就讓他每一個網站他存活的時間越短越好因為一個網站被下架以後他去建立一個新網站不需要那麼多時間但是他通知他的潛在客戶說我設立一個新的網站這個需要很長的時間通常至少要一兩個禮拜這些客戶才會知道說他設立一個新的網站但是我們這邊只要兩個小時我們就把它下架"},{"start":376.318,"end":394.244,"text":"你必須要更積極有效的防範這些違法的販售網站在被你們封鎖下架之後它很快的在幾分鐘之內就可以無縫的再重建一個新的同樣的網站你們到底有什麼更具體的做法"},{"start":394.924,"end":413.131,"text":"那你相關的我剛才請教林部長就是有關於這些網路業者相關的風險管理機制你們到底要怎麼有效去執行我們另外一個做法就是利用AI的技術去做網路的巡檢我們就是用AI去網路上去巡查說有這些可疑的譬如說他用的這些"},{"start":413.931,"end":436.939,"text":"那個語言 譬如說糖果啊 煮雞啊這個雖然 那個一些他們的黑話那個如果發現有類似的話我們就主動會去讓那個我們會跟衛福部合作主動讓他們知道說有這些可疑的網站請他們趕快去檢查我們就一樣就是縮短所有這些那個非法的網站它的存活時間然後縮短我們發現所需要的時間"},{"start":438.387,"end":455.519,"text":"部長你的責任非常重大你除了相關的數位的產業以及資安的這些防範更重要在打砸方面以及現在新興毒品的這一種重要的核心載具就是這種電子菸的插器下架"},{"start":456.279,"end":474.964,"text":"必須要有更明確的成績讓社會大眾來檢驗那我們除了這些之外一信卡現在也成為一種數位洗錢的新形態那我們看到一信卡跟傳統的點數詐騙結合低價的這種代購的囂張那我們看到"},{"start":481.704,"end":498.353,"text":"有很多的這種詐團他利用合法的電信家職業者來假造數千萬元的一信的訂單利用這種高度的客製化但是他又"},{"start":500.371,"end":528.123,"text":"它又沒有需要這種實體的物流因為它只需要QR code就可以了那這種特性它來自由的定價那在於支付海外供應商的名利將巨額的資金合法的匯往海外境外那最後再轉帳或者是兌換虛擬貨幣它其實徹底切斷了國內的這種金流的追查"},{"start":528.939,"end":557.401,"text":"另外就是傳統點數卡的詐騙他現在也結合第三方低價的代儲業者那將被害人購買的點數以四到六折來囂張變現那其實我們在目前的管理我認為有兩大的這樣的一個漏洞第一個就是缺乏預警的一個機制第二個就是沒有落實平台的監督"},{"start":559.096,"end":570.285,"text":"缺乏預警機制就是說像這種一信卡竟然出現了單一的一信卡的賣場單月的銷售達到70萬筆但是卻沒有什麼評價的這種離譜的現象平台業者掌握大數據他們這種高數量的"},{"start":584.416,"end":599.796,"text":"賣出卻是低評價沒有人去針對這個有什麼評價就是有問題啊就是速發部跟金融監管機關啊那個eSIM卡跟SIM卡是NCC這邊主管的不是速發部主管的好 那來NCC也說明"},{"start":605.202,"end":629.353,"text":"跟委員報告醫訊大概有兩種是本國電信業者發行的還是國外電信業者或者國外MVMO發行的那聽剛剛委員的質詢聽起來應該是國外的電信業者所發行的因為本國要發行一定是要做KYC所以這邊因為它這種高額而且是純數位沒有實體物流的跨境貿易它出現這種金流與物流的"},{"start":630.353,"end":645.575,"text":"不服他的異常申報跟難解機制是有問題林部長我還是要請教你也讓NCC來做個說明之外蘇哈部在過去都是著重防範消費的詐騙"},{"start":646.876,"end":668.032,"text":"那他並沒有強制這些電商平台落實數位賣家的身份審查就是KYC以及洗錢的這種通報的機制那所以我要請教你們有什麼更好的處理方式我們有這種第三方的"},{"start":669.076,"end":692.396,"text":"的這種相關的機制嗎事實上委員講到一個重點因為我們國人事實上也都知道去國外的網站去買這個eSIM卡事實上有很高的資安風還有各自的風險但是現在就是目前的法律還是說國內的那個三大電信公司他要賣eSIM卡都必須做那個事實的查核還得臨櫃去辦理但是在海外的這個"},{"start":693.177,"end":719.159,"text":"那個eSIM卡去購買的時候並沒有做KYC這個部分所以這個地方我們會跟那個NCC密切合作就是說因為民眾因為為了圖方便還有那個圖那個價錢低去買海外的這個eSIM卡這是非常危險的那海外的這個eSIM卡因為這個是在海外而且這個eSIM卡在海外它也不是說違法的這個我們的確是比較那個比較難去管所以我們是希望說跟NCC合作讓"},{"start":720.66,"end":736.651,"text":"國內這個合法的eSIM卡的那個申辦流程簡化而且它的價格降低那這樣子國人知道說有國內跟國外的可以選擇那他一定會選擇國內因為國內的eSIM卡比較安全部長我還是再次提醒你像這種電子菸的"},{"start":739.092,"end":754.781,"text":"權責機關當然是衛福部但是主管下架以及相關的這些平台的技術本質或者是相關的跨境的這一種管轄權或者是相關的實名制都是"},{"start":755.681,"end":770.675,"text":"蘇花部的一個重要的職責這種異性卡也是一樣相關的業務當然是NCC但是有關於換售的這些平台的處理啊以及相關的這些點數卡的問題啊"},{"start":772.116,"end":800.145,"text":"蘇發部跟NCC必須要密切的來討論更好的機制來保障國人的權益是 跟委員補充報告二十秒上次其實在四月份在院會的時候也有香港委員提問這個國內第三大業者發行異性的部分只要是既有業既有任務的話其實它不用零貴了這部分那個效率已經改善了但是價格上因為國外的很多都是有些是特殊國家它的成本相對比較低但是本國業者發行異性現在"},{"start":800.965,"end":809.179,"text":"既有用戶的話其實不用領貴了已經在我們已經開過會必須提出更有效的一個做法以上好 謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:26.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:28.819000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，請林宜敬部長。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:29.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:29.261000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:39.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:40.416000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:40.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:54:40.716000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:54:42.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:19.320000+08:00","text":"電子煙是新興毒品一個核心的載具，我們看到衛福部國民健康署在1至4月有公布了一個官方統計，這個統計是針對網路違法販售電子煙進行監測，下架了1萬1,425件的商品，而且針對境內外違法網站實施3,361件的停止解析（DNS封鎖），其實就是下架啦！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:19.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:19.700000+08:00","text":"沒錯，是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:22.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:55:43.629000+08:00","text":"官方的說法，帳面下架率是99.3%，但是拿帳面下架率跟實質流通率來比，我認為有很大的落差啦！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:55:44.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:03.631000+08:00","text":"因為我們看到檢警跟法務單位，針對近期查獲的依托咪酯，即俗稱的喪屍煙彈，這種新興毒品的案件最近呈現不減反增啊！","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:05.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:31.790000+08:00","text":"我們看到很多起毒駕造成嚴重傷亡案件，也引起社會的憤怒跟討論，也顯示這種電子煙作為新興毒品的核心載具，在黑市跟網路平臺的實質流通率已經不是現行的行政下架措施就能有效收到抑制的效果。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:32.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:33.793000+08:00","text":"來，讓您說明一下。是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:34.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:51.759000+08:00","text":"委員說得沒錯，我們知道現在在網路上賣電子煙或者是違法毒品還是在發生，這些賣違法電子煙和毒品的人當然不會在網路上直接寫「請問你要不要買電子煙？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:52.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:56:53.159000+08:00","text":"請問你要不要買依托咪酯？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:56:54.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:57:05.061000+08:00","text":"」他一定會用所謂的黑話，譬如說電子煙的載具叫做主機，所以我們會通知所有電商平臺做關鍵字的封鎖。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:05.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:57:26.633000+08:00","text":"事實上這是衛福部給我們的資訊，所以現在網路上或在一些電商平臺上搜尋「主機」，可能跟你講沒辦法找到；然後一些毒品甚至黑話就叫「糖果」，所以有一陣子，我不知道現在是不是還是這樣，衛福部透過我們通知電商平臺，網路上不能出現「糖果」這個關鍵字。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:27.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:57:39.521000+08:00","text":"事實上所有這些問題都是貓捉老鼠的問題，我們必須取得一個平衡，我們不能過度限制，譬如說我在網路上真的通通限制，那就連一般正常的糖果都買不到了。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:42.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:57:51.887000+08:00","text":"部長，我要提醒你，你有提到貓捉老鼠，我認為目前數位部只是採取打地鼠這一種執法的方式，有沒有其他的防制措施？","quality":0.604},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:57:52.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:16.580000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到雖然數位部一直說要下架這些電子煙，但相關這些違法販售的網站還是春風吹又生啦，我們現在對這些違法網站採取停止解析、下架的處分，只是一種事後、被動的追緝而已啊！","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:18.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:24.025000+08:00","text":"這一些新興毒品、電子煙的賣家，他們其實數位能力也不會比你們差。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:25.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:44.982000+08:00","text":"他利用這種境外的免洗網域，以及自動化動態DNS轉址，在原網址被你們下架、封鎖的幾分鐘之內，就在境外的伺服器無縫接軌重建網站。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:46.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:58:50.985000+08:00","text":"目前針對這種防制措施，你們到底有什麼改善的方式？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:58:53.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:09.455000+08:00","text":"現在行政院也要提出菸害防制法相關的修正草案，就是要增訂網際網路業者的風險管控機制這個部分。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:11.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:22.361000+08:00","text":"其實我要提醒部長，電子煙的權責機構是衛福部，但是相關的主管、負責下架的機關是數位部。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:22.361000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:23.662000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:23.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:43.351000+08:00","text":"網路平臺這些技術本質，或是實名制，或者是相關跨境的管轄權，核心的主政業務都是在數位部，未來針對這些修正，你們預計的執行計畫是怎樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:43.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T09:59:43.511000+08:00","text":"來，簡單說明一下。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T09:59:44.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:06.635000+08:00","text":"是，事實上委員剛剛已經指出幾個重點，第一個是跨境；第二個就是春風吹又生的這個問題，一個網站如果被我們用DNS RPZ的方式封鎖了，他就趕快再去設一個新網站，所以我們現在能做的事情就是跟他比速度，現在只要衛福部通知我們的TWNIC，我們在兩個小時內就會馬上下架。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:09.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:35.957000+08:00","text":"當然衛福部那邊發現後還有他們認定的時間，只要他們一通知我們，兩個小時就會讓它下架，就是讓每一個網站存活的時間越短越好，因為一個網站被下架以後，他去建立一個新網站不需要那麼多時間，但是通知其潛在客戶又設立一個新的網站則需要很長的時間，通常至少要一、兩個禮拜，這些客戶才會知道他設了一個新的網站，但是我們這邊只要兩個小時就把它下架。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:37.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:00:55.224000+08:00","text":"你必須更積極、有效的防範這些違法的販售網站，在被你們封鎖下架之後，他很快的在幾分鐘之內就可以無縫再重建一個新的、同樣的網站，你們到底有什麼更具體的做法？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:00:56.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:05.648000+08:00","text":"至於相關的，我剛才曾請教林部長，就是有關這些網路業者相關的風險管理機制，你們到底要怎麼有效的去執行？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:05.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:01:37.939000+08:00","text":"我們另外一個做法就是利用AI技術去做網路巡檢，就是用AI去網路上巡查這些可疑的語言，譬如說用的語言是糖果、主機等一些黑話，如果發現有類似的話，我們就會主動去跟衛福部合作，主動讓他們知道有這些可疑的網站，請他們趕快去檢查，一樣就是縮短所有非法網站的存活時間，然後縮短我們發現所需要的時間。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:01:39.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:01.860000+08:00","text":"部長，你的責任非常重大，除了相關的數位產業以及資安的防範，更重要的是在打詐方面，以及現在新興毒品這種重要的核心載具，就是電子煙的查緝、下架，必須有更明確的成績讓社會大眾檢驗。是。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:02.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:02:46.774000+08:00","text":"除了這些之外，eSIM卡現在也成為一種數位洗錢的新型態，就是eSIM卡跟傳統點數詐騙結合低價代購銷贓，我們看到有很多詐團利用合法的電信加值業者，假造數千萬元的eSIM訂單，利用這種高度客製化，但是他又沒有需要實體的物流，因為他只需要QR Code就可以了。是。","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:02:49.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:09.103000+08:00","text":"這種特性是自由定價，再以支付海外供應商的名義，將巨額資金合法的匯往海外、境外，最後再轉帳或者是兌換虛擬貨幣，澈底切斷國內的金流追查。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:09.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:25.031000+08:00","text":"另外就是傳統點數卡的詐騙，現在也結合第三方低價的代儲業者，將被害人購買的點數以4到6折來銷贓、變現。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:26.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:38.381000+08:00","text":"目前的管理我認為有兩大漏洞，第一個就是缺乏預警機制；第二個就是沒有落實平臺監督。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:40.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:03:49.464000+08:00","text":"而缺乏預警機制就是像這種eSIM卡，竟然出現單一的eSIM卡賣場，單月的銷售達到70萬筆，但是卻沒有什麼評價這種離譜的現象。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:03:49.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:14.468000+08:00","text":"平臺業者掌握大數據，他們這種高數量的賣出卻是低評價，沒有人針對這個有什麼評價，那就是有問題，數發部跟金融監管機關……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:14.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:18.853000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，eSIM卡跟SIM卡是NCC主管的，不是數發部主管的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:19.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:20.775000+08:00","text":"好，請NCC說明。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:26.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:33.625000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，eSIM大概有兩種，包括本國電信業者發行的，或者國外電信業者或國外MVNO發行的。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:34.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:41.669000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員的質詢聽起來應該是國外的電信業者所發行的，因為本國的要發行一定要做KYC，所以這邊不可能輕易交易。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:42.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:55.880000+08:00","text":"這種高額而且是純數位，沒有實體物流的跨境貿易，出現金流與物流不符，它的異常申報跟攔截機制有問題。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:04:55.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:04:59.665000+08:00","text":"林部長，我還是要請教你，也讓NCC來做個說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:01.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:25.490000+08:00","text":"數發部在過去都是著重防範消費詐騙，並沒有強制這些電商平臺落實數位賣家的身分審查，就是KYC，以及洗錢通報的機制，所以我要請教你們有什麼更好的處理方式？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:25.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:32.638000+08:00","text":"我們有第三方相關的機制嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:32.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:05:42.687000+08:00","text":"委員講到一個重點，我們國人也都知道，去國外網站買eSIM卡事實上有很高的資安還有個資風險。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:05:43.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:06:33.508000+08:00","text":"目前的法律是國內三大電信公司要賣eSIM卡都必須做事實查核，還得臨櫃去辦理，但是購買海外eSIM卡的時候，並沒有做KYC，所以我們會跟NCC密切合作，因為民眾為了圖方便、價錢低而去買海外的eSIM卡，這是非常危險的，海外的這些eSIM卡，因為是在海外，而且eSIM卡在海外也不是違法的，這個我們的確比較難去管，所以我們希望跟NCC合作，讓國內合法的eSIM卡申辦流程簡化，而且將價格降低，讓國人知道有國內跟國外的可以選擇，那他一定會選擇國內，因為國內的eSIM卡比較安全。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:06:34.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:07:19.278000+08:00","text":"部長，我還是再次提醒你，電子煙的權責機關當然是衛福部，但是主管下架以及相關平臺的技術本質，或者是相關跨境的管轄權，或者是相關的實名制，都是數發部重要的職責，這種eSIM卡也是一樣，相關的業務當然是在NCC，但是有關於販售的平臺處理，以及相關點數卡的問題，數發部跟NCC必須密切討論更好的機制，以保障國人的權益。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-06-03T10:07:20.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:07:46.373000+08:00","text":"跟委員補充報告20秒，其實在4月份院會的時候也有委員提問，國內三大業者發行eSIM，只要是既有用戶的話，其實不用臨櫃，這部分的效率已經改善了，但是在價格上，因為國外有些是特殊國家，他們的成本相對比較低，但是本國業者發行的eSIM，現在既有用戶其實不用臨櫃了，我們已經開過會……","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-03T10:07:46.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:07:48.657000+08:00","text":"必須提出更有效的做法。以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:07:50.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:07:50.179000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:07:50.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:07:54.679000+08:00","text":"謝謝李昆澤委員，謝謝部長跟主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:07:54.979000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:07:58.121857+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}