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洪部長今天是想跟你交流依法行政的概念我想依法行政當然有法就應該要落實那沒法就應該補落洞那這個法當然最主要是針對性別平等工作法來跟你交流那我想上個禮拜三立法院這箱如火如荼在討論台灣未來帳戶但是另外一箱就是總統"},{"start":36.329,"end":56.469,"text":"在同天也公布所謂的18項大禮包那我們發現這18項大禮包其實跟我們的台灣未來帳戶有蠻多雷同的地方那除此之外我們也發現就是台灣民眾黨在過去一年兩年提出的修法草案其實好像也跟你們的大禮包"},{"start":57.55,"end":82.441,"text":"在其中有看到類似的銀資那我想跟您請教一件事就是關於第一件事就是鼓勵企業來佈建這個托兒措施那當然我們民眾黨提到說這些佈建的費用如果扣除掉政府的補助之後那可以從盈利事業所得稅當中來扣除這筆費用那現在你們提出的禮包是說你們的支出費用是要從營業所得稅扣除200%"},{"start":84.622,"end":94.872,"text":"我們看到大禮包的圖卡是200%但是今天早上我看到書面資料看到的是200%的限度內那所謂限度內就是150% 100% 50%就是可以到200的意思啊"},{"start":98.323,"end":125.994,"text":"所以意思就是上限是200那你們的大禮包我們會覺得說200就是一個固定的數字但是今天看到你們的那個所以您現在澄清是200%的限度所以有可能是10% 50% 150% 200%這個依據是什麼跟我的說明基本上就是200基本上就200所以你們那個限度內我們為什麼訂到200因為我們看到很多委員的版本其實只有大概就是100%我們為什麼訂到200就是要增加鼓勵的誘因"},{"start":126.414,"end":139.867,"text":"了解好所以就是例如說他支出是不是1000萬所得稅的扣除以我們的版本有可能1000萬但你的版本會200%就是2000萬的意思OK好那第二件事想跟您請教說我們是有法律提案的"},{"start":140.623,"end":165.799,"text":"是 只是你們今天早上的那個文字說明叫限度內叫限度內 我只是在澄清到底是200我們的信用法裡面是有法律提案的好 OK 沒有問題 好了解 那第二件事就是我們那個產價的延長我想我們當然產價延長是一個共識各黨的共識 那現在就是說我們有流產價 流產價就是按現行的規定再多給一倍的價 但是好像"},{"start":166.94,"end":193.342,"text":"政府就是勞動部這邊好像對於這件事是沒有進一步提出一些政策有嗎在這次的修法裡面在這次新公法裡面我們其實也讓流產家原本是沒有薪資的部分讓他變成有薪資我知道這個我剛剛有看到但我在講日數因為我們的未滿兩個月的流產是五日變十日然後未滿二到三個月的流產是一個星期變兩個星期我在講日數當然薪資我剛在書面報告有提到"},{"start":193.922,"end":215.875,"text":"那日數 假的部分 您剛講是錢的部分不是在報告裡面 是在法案裡面直接就是有放出好 沒有問題 那我現在在講假 不是錢的部分因為您好像回答我錢的部分我們的確在這一次流產假的假的日數方面沒有增加對 是沒有增加 那是否因為流產其實身體也需要修復是否這邊可以來做一個考量其實"},{"start":219.743,"end":239.415,"text":"我們這一次針對流產價部分除了剛剛討論的薪資以外原本現行的勞基法規定的產價然後流產價部分是三個月以上的流產價那我們這一次讓勞基法跟薪工法有其一在假期間讓他有其一的規範所以勞基法那個部分也會有新增到"},{"start":239.995,"end":259.758,"text":"三個月以下的流產就包含三個月到兩個月兩個月以下的流產分別都有增訂進去所以我們認為說階段性的現在先讓這個勞基法跟性供法的期間先讓他起因了解但目前沒有未來你們不排除嗎是這樣的意思嗎目前沒有未來不排除是這樣的意思目前沒有什麼"},{"start":260.509,"end":275.196,"text":"就是我們有加倍目前的日數是沒有增加那未來是否有研議的可能性因為我們有提出這樣草案這樣草案到時候也會逐條審查那勞動部這邊是不是能夠給我們一點支持當然我覺得大家到時候是可以來討論"},{"start":276.277,"end":300.041,"text":"但是我們的確現在是處理是他的薪資的部分了解那現在就是這個育兒津貼嘛我想各版的版本有相當程度的公式就是津貼要提升然後那個請你的月數也要提升嘛那我看我們台灣民眾黨在兩年前就提出來了那勞動部這邊也跟上了那我們也樂觀其成那我想今天減少工時的問題很多委員之前有問嘛那減少工時當然目前就是減少一個小時的工時不得請求報酬"},{"start":304.662,"end":325.539,"text":"但是這個行政院這邊的大禮包就提到說可以提早一個小時下班那不減薪那不減薪我想我剛剛聽到您這邊的澄清好像應該是就是說雇主還是要給付如果提早一小時下班還是要給付這個員工那一個小時的薪資那至於政府的做法就是用一些獎勵計畫的補助把這一小時的工資補助給勞工嘛反而給雇主"},{"start":330.543,"end":359.983,"text":"那現在請問一個問題你要勞資獎勵計畫的內容的內涵是什麼可不可以一個月內給我們一個書面說明關於獎勵計畫的具體內容我先讓委員知道第一個的確在我們現在的獎勵計畫的設定裡面他是要勞資同意的所以要雇主他評估他企業的運作的狀況他是可以的我都同意這前提我們都知道獎勵計畫的內容我們現在在獎勵計畫的內容因為現在我們也在各地方政府在討論裁員我擔心的是裁員"},{"start":361.364,"end":376.513,"text":"財源我們都準備了準備啊就是要告訴我們講一句話的內容財源我們其實已經做了準備已經也跟行政院討論了那現在是在執行的方式上尤其是要跟地方政府一起來合作執行的方式我知道你當然有提到說就是為了企業不要讓他們運轉不過來所以其實不是強制的要那個但是"},{"start":382.356,"end":400.725,"text":"財源要先準備好因為如果僱主也願意但沒有財源可能就巧夫難為無名之吹我們其實有先做準備財源的準備那沒關係之後給我們書面報告關於財源那我現在第二件事是想請教那個新少老的房子那我想新少老的房子僱主有事前房子一物事後的一個採取立即有效處"},{"start":401.405,"end":417.493,"text":"那個措施立即有效的一個處理措施那這個如果這兩個義務如果沒有達到的話其實就會有行政罰款那我想問一下部長勞動部是不是針對僱主這兩個義務如果違反是不是有確實開罰"},{"start":420.579,"end":435.586,"text":"跟委員報告這個法有明定如同剛剛我們說的所以地方政府如果事業單位沒有做到性供法13條第一項或第二項地方政府查明屬實當然會開罰那你們有掌握這個開罰的數字嗎就是一年大約幾件"},{"start":438.429,"end":455.463,"text":"我們那個基本上地方政府在開法以後我們有要求一定要在一個月內處分的一個月內上那個系統公告所以那個件數在網站上面其實都可以查得到我知道查得到但你們有掌握嗎那個件數一年大概多少件還沒有掌握"},{"start":456.604,"end":473.86,"text":"待會跟委員回報沒有問題那我現在有一個問題我想要請教部長其實這個是真實發生的就是有個護理人員在洗身室被病人的家屬偷摸大腿然後結果當然就是一個性騷擾事件然後醫院的處理方式就是把這個洗身室的"},{"start":474.66,"end":488.945,"text":"護理人員呢他的採取立即有效補救措施就是把A區換到B區但是洗腎室是一個開放的空間你換到A區跟B區其實在同一個空間視覺上都可以看得到對方那這個病人家屬就是這個這個叫什麼性騷擾的人他五天之後又陪他媽媽回來洗腎結果呢發現他的護理師被調走了卻勃然大怒說你以為你是鄉親的嗎誰要碰你啊那所以又被公然侮辱了一次那我想問一下"},{"start":503.41,"end":512.362,"text":"在部長的眼中呢到底這個洗身是從A區調到B區是不是針對這個性騷擾事件的立即有效的一個補救措施"},{"start":514.941,"end":538.251,"text":"跟委員報告調動這件事情當然就如同委員剛剛提到的我們的法本意就是要做一個安全的他也採取補修措施是不是立即有效我想重點在立即要快然後重點在有效那我們現在整個制度上面設計如果當事人覺得說僱主你的安排仍然讓我處於是一種不安或危險的這樣的一個感覺的時候"},{"start":540.472,"end":563.122,"text":"其實我在想這已經不是主觀的認知了它這是一個洗身室完全是一個透明度非常高沒有隔間的一個區域然後它從A區域被調到B區域其實視覺都看得到然後找也找得到所以這顯然不是一個立即有效的補救措施我是這樣感覺這已經完全不是主觀的問題這也是一個客觀判斷的問題那當然這個案件也被這是哪一個縣市的"},{"start":564.002,"end":576.255,"text":"新北這個案件當然也被處理了就是有這個到法院去處理那這個案件那當然諸如此類的案件其實勞動部就是要確實開罰那現在重點剛剛市長有說要給我數據其實我自己已經去撈數據了從你們勞動部有一個裁罰查詢系統這個系統從106年開始那106年大概就是系統開辦的"},{"start":588.567,"end":603.544,"text":"我們其實只撈到22件場域是在醫療護理還有長照機構所以這顯示說開罰率非常的低非常的低那請問這個有沒有黑數還有跟護理人員的體感溫度相不相符"},{"start":604.145,"end":616.095,"text":"因為怎麼會10年了然後以醫療院所護理院所長照院所為關鍵字輸進去開罰率居然只有22件平均一年不到2.2件平均一年只有2.2件不到3件"},{"start":619.958,"end":648.289,"text":"跟文說明你這邊指的意思應該是在醫療護理長照機構裡面不是說所有嘛對不對醫療跟護理長照機構幾百間上千間我覺得這事情分兩段出來第一個是只要有相關開罰的數據都應該要上網公佈這件事情我們會來做第二件事情是如果這個包括相關的查查或者是申訴的案件"},{"start":650.21,"end":666.018,"text":"我們不是去追求案件多當然不是但是你要實際開放我們不是追求案件多案件當然越少越好啊代表真的沒發生啊當如果真的有性騷擾事件發生的時候我們要怎麼樣讓包括可能被騷擾的人能夠有更這個"},{"start":667.779,"end":686.629,"text":"放新的條件來去申訴當然然後也包括包括相關的地方因為以我剛講的新店的這個案件嘛他其實就是沒有採取立即有效的補救措施那這個完全已經被法院認證了我只是用這個案件來凸顯給大家看其實雇主對於採取立即有效的補救措施其實他在"},{"start":687.629,"end":692.752,"text":"措施上力道上其實都還有加強的空間那如果有加強空間開閥產生恫嚇力讓他們進而去改善他們的行為我覺得這非常的重要問題是系統只看到過去10年遼遙可數的22件那我們覺得這跟護理人員的體感溫度差很多啦也存在黑數那為什麼我敢說有黑數體感溫度差很多因為"},{"start":708.641,"end":735.299,"text":"其實全聯會有委託這個專家學者來做一個計劃那這個計劃其實呢護理人員他們反映說他們在職場的環境遭受到性騷擾的比例其實高達40到60%那這等於是日常嘛那可是從過去十年卻只有開罰一年不到三件那部長不好意思紅字是代表什麼意思紅字是你擔任部長之後開罰的件數我已經標示出來了在醫療機構只有六件"},{"start":738.741,"end":741.243,"text":"所以部長可不可以帶回去檢討如何強制的取締是不是擴大勞檢把它列為勞檢的項目是措施之一"},{"start":755.512,"end":769.886,"text":"好那因為時間的關係我最後做一個結語請部長呢針對大禮包的部分給我們法源依據當然您剛有講只是整理出來給我們還有裁員就是每一項大禮包背後的裁員請提供一個月那再來就是落實委員會"},{"start":771.247,"end":784.617,"text":"所說的 就是報那個嘛 獎勵計畫嘛 也是公務預算沒關係 那還有提出書面報告就是關於怎麼落實那個13條事前的防治事後的採取立即有效措施的對策那就謝謝部長 謝謝那謝謝邱會議委員的"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:20:30.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:20:32.433000+08:00","text":"主席、各位同仁，大家好。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:20:32.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:20:34.540000+08:00","text":"有請洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:20:34.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:20:34.942000+08:00","text":"有請洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:20:38.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:20:45.818000+08:00","text":"洪部長，今天想跟你交流依法行政的概念，針對依法行政，當然有法就應該要落實，沒法就應該補漏洞。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:20:47.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:21:10.880000+08:00","text":"今天主要是想就性別平等工作法來跟您交流，上禮拜三立法院這廂如火如荼在討論臺灣未來帳戶，另外一廂是總統也在同天公布所謂18項大禮包，我們發現這18項大禮包其實跟臺灣未來帳戶有蠻多雷同的地方。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:21:11.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:21:23.051000+08:00","text":"除此之外，我們也發現台灣民眾黨在過去一、兩年提出的修法草案，其實在你們所公布的大禮包當中也有看到類似的影子。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:21:23.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:21:46.441000+08:00","text":"我想跟您請教一些事情，第一件事是針對鼓勵企業布建托兒措施，民眾黨提到這些布建費用扣除政府的補助之後，可以從營利事業所得稅當中扣除相關費用，而你們現在提出的禮包是說你們的支出費用是要從營所稅扣除200%。是。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:21:48.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:21:58.211000+08:00","text":"我們看到大禮包的圖卡是200%，但是今天早上我看到的書面資料卻是在200%的限度內，所謂「限度內」就是150%、100%、50%。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:21:58.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:21:58.852000+08:00","text":"就是可以到200%的意思啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:02.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:03.504000+08:00","text":"意思就是上限是200%嘛！對。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:04.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:19.010000+08:00","text":"就你們的大禮包，我們會覺得200%就是一個固定的數字，但是今天看到你們的書面資料卻不是這樣，您現在也澄清是200%的限度，所以有可能是10%、50%、150%或200%，請問這個依據是什麼？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:19.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:20.070000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，基本上就是200%啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:21.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:23.211000+08:00","text":"所以你們那個限度內……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:23.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:23.851000+08:00","text":"我們為什麼訂到200%？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:24.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:28.013000+08:00","text":"其實我們看到很多委員的版本大概只有100%，我們為什麼要訂到200%？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:28.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:29.974000+08:00","text":"就是要增加鼓勵的誘因。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:30.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:39.422000+08:00","text":"了解，所以如果他的支出是1,000萬，以我們的版本相關扣除額有可能是1,000萬，但以你的版本會是200%，也就是2,000萬的意思。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:39.422000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:40.422000+08:00","text":"可以到200%，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:39.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:39.943000+08:00","text":"好，OK。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:40.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:41.945000+08:00","text":"第二件事想跟您請教……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:42.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:43.847000+08:00","text":"這部分我們是有法律提案的啊！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:45.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:50.847000+08:00","text":"對，只是你們今天早上的文字說明叫「限度內」，我只是在澄清到底是200%……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:50.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:52.628000+08:00","text":"我們在性工法裡面是有法律提案的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:52.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:22:54.670000+08:00","text":"好，OK，沒有問題，了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:22:54.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:17.445000+08:00","text":"第二件事是關於產假的延長，當然產假延長是各黨的共識，現在主要是針對流產假的部分，我們主張流產假按現行規定再多給一倍的假，但是勞動部對於這件事好像還沒有進一步提出相關政策，請問有嗎？","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:17.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:24.271000+08:00","text":"有，在這一次的性工法修法裡面，我們其實也讓流產假原本沒有薪資的部分變成有薪。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:24.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:33.719000+08:00","text":"我知道，這個我剛剛有看到，但我在講的是日數，我們主張懷孕未滿2個月的流產假要從5日變成10日，懷孕2到3個月的流產假要從1個星期變成2個星期。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:33.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:39.223000+08:00","text":"我在講的是日數，薪資的部分在書面報告裡面有提到，但是針對日數的部分呢？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:39.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:40.444000+08:00","text":"您剛剛講的是錢的部分……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:40.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:42.345000+08:00","text":"不是在報告裡面，而是在法案裡面直接放入有薪資的相關規定。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:42.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:47.728000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，我現在在講的是假，而不是錢的部分，但您好像只有回答我關於錢的部分。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:50.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:54.452000+08:00","text":"的確在這次流產假的日數方面並沒有增加，我剛剛說的是錢的部分。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:23:56.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:23:59.755000+08:00","text":"其實流產身體也需要修復，這邊是否可以來做一個考量？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:03.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:29.301000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這次針對流產假的部分，除了剛剛討論的薪資以外，原本現行勞基法規定流產假的部分是針對3個月以上的流產假，我們這次讓勞基法跟性工法齊一，在假的期間部分讓它有齊一的規範，所以勞基法那個部分也會新增3個月以下的流產假，就是包含3個月到2個月以及2個月以下的流產，分別都有增訂進去。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:30.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:35.088000+08:00","text":"我們認為應該階段性處理，現在先讓勞基法跟性工法的期間齊一，然後……","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:36.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:40.374000+08:00","text":"了解，也就是目前沒有，但未來你們不排除，是這樣的意思嘛！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:40.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:43.138000+08:00","text":"目前沒有，未來不排除，是這樣的意思嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:43.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:43.758000+08:00","text":"目前沒有什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:44.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:45.650000+08:00","text":"就是我們有加倍啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:45.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:48.191000+08:00","text":"目前的日數是沒有增加的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:49.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:51.152000+08:00","text":"對，未來是否有研議的可能性？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:51.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:24:57.836000+08:00","text":"因為我們有提出這樣的草案，這個草案到時候也會逐條審查，勞動部是不是能夠給我們一點支持？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:24:57.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:25:03.158000+08:00","text":"當然，我覺得大家到時候是可以來討論，但是我們現在處理的是薪資的部分。了解。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:25:03.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:25:18.980000+08:00","text":"現在就是育兒津貼的部分，我想各黨的版本有相當程度的共識，就是津貼要提升，然後請領的月數也要提升，我看我們台灣民眾黨在兩年前就提出，勞動部也跟上了，我們也樂觀其成。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:25:20.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:25:49.519000+08:00","text":"減少工時的問題很多委員之前有問，減少工時當然目前就是減少1個小時的工時，不得請求報酬，但行政院的大禮包是提到可以提早1個小時下班，不減薪，而不減薪的部分，我剛剛聽到您的澄清，好像應該就是如果提早1小時下班，雇主還是要給付員工那1個小時的薪資；至於政府的做法，就是用一些獎勵計畫把這1小時的工資補助給雇主。是。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:25:55.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:25:59.726000+08:00","text":"現在請問一個問題，你們勞資獎勵計畫的內涵是什麼？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:25:59.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:04.510000+08:00","text":"可不可以1個月內給我們一個關於獎勵計畫具體內容的書面說明？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:04.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:15.857000+08:00","text":"我先讓委員知道，第一個，的確在我們現在獎勵計畫的設定裡面是要勞資同意的，所以雇主要評估其企業的運作狀況，他是可以的。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:16.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:18.959000+08:00","text":"我都同意，這前提我們都知道，我是問獎勵計畫的內容。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:19.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:22.802000+08:00","text":"關於獎勵計畫的內容，因為現在我們也在跟地方政府討論，包括……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:23.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:23.823000+08:00","text":"我擔心的是財源。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:25.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:26.104000+08:00","text":"財源我們都準備了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:26.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:28.605000+08:00","text":"準備了，就是要告訴我們獎勵計畫的內容，好不好？財源……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:30.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:38.632000+08:00","text":"財源我們其實已經做了準備，也跟行政院討論了，現在是在執行的方式上，尤其是要跟地方政府一起來合作執行的方式上面。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:38.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:47.157000+08:00","text":"我知道，你當然有提到，為了不讓企業運轉不過來，所以其實不是強制性的，但財源要先準備好……","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:47.157000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:48.157000+08:00","text":"是，當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:47.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:51.238000+08:00","text":"因為如果雇主也願意，但沒有財源，可能就是巧婦難為無米之炊。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:51.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:53.259000+08:00","text":"我們其實有先做了財源的準備。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:53.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:26:55.120000+08:00","text":"了解，沒關係，之後給我們關於財源的書面報告。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:26:56.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:15.250000+08:00","text":"我的第二件事是想請教性騷擾防治，我想性騷擾防治的部分，雇主有事前防治義務，事後採取立即有效的處理措施，這兩個義務如果沒有達到的話，其實就會有行政罰鍰。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:16.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:21.493000+08:00","text":"我想問一下部長，勞動部針對雇主的這兩個義務，如果違反是不是有確實開罰？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:24.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:36.865000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個法有明定，就如同剛剛委員所說的，如果事業單位沒有做到性工法第十三條第一項或第二項，地方政府查明屬實，當然會開罰。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:37.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:38.846000+08:00","text":"你們有掌握開罰的數字嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:39.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:39.566000+08:00","text":"一年大約幾件？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:43.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:55.160000+08:00","text":"基本上，地方政府在開罰以後，我們有要求一定要在處分的1個月內上系統公告，所以件數在網站上面其實都可以查得到。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:55.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:57.642000+08:00","text":"我知道查得到，但你們有掌握件數嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:57.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:58.663000+08:00","text":"一年大概有多少件？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:27:59.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:27:59.443000+08:00","text":"還沒有掌握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:00.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:28:01.565000+08:00","text":"待會跟委員回報。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:01.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:28:02.606000+08:00","text":"沒有問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:02.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:28:28.844000+08:00","text":"我現在有一個問題想請教部長，其實這是真實發生的，有個護理人員在洗腎室被病人的家屬偷摸大腿，結果當然就是一個性騷擾事件，然後醫院的處理方式、採取立即有效的補救措施是把洗腎室的護理人員從A區換到B區，但洗腎室是一個開放空間，他被換到A區或B區，其實都在同一個空間，視覺上都可以看得到對方。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:28.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:28:31.505000+08:00","text":"而這個病人家屬，即性騷擾的人，他5天之後又陪他媽媽回來洗腎，結果發現他的護理師被調走了，就勃然大怒地說：你以為你是鑲金的嗎？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:31.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:28:31.765000+08:00","text":"誰要碰你啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:31.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:28:32.285000+08:00","text":"所以又被公然侮辱了一次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:32.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:28:56.342000+08:00","text":"我想問一下，在部長的眼中，洗腎室從A區調到B區，針對性騷擾事件到底是不是立即有效的補救措施？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T10:28:58.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:07.325000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，調動這件事情當然就如同委員剛剛所提到的，我們的法本意就是要做一個安全的，那個環境要讓他……","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:07.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:09.846000+08:00","text":"他有採取補救措施，是不是立即有效？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:10.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:12.987000+08:00","text":"我想重點在立即、要快、有效。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:13.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:22.211000+08:00","text":"我們現在整個制度上面的設計，如果當事人覺得雇主的安排仍然讓他處於一種不安或危險的感覺，他可以跟地方政府……","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:24.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:44.661000+08:00","text":"我在想這已經不是主觀的認知了，這是一個洗腎室，完全是一個透明度非常高、沒有隔間的區域，他從A區域被調到B區域，其實視覺都看得到，找也找得到，所以這顯然不是一個立即有效的補救措施，我是這樣感覺，這已經完全不是主觀的問題，而是一個客觀判斷的問題。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:44.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:46.101000+08:00","text":"當然這個案件也被……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:46.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:47.102000+08:00","text":"這是哪一個縣市的案件？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:48.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:29:53.007000+08:00","text":"新北，這個案件當然也被處理了，就是有到法院去處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:29:54.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:20.617000+08:00","text":"當然諸如此類的案件，勞動部就是要確實開罰，但現在的重點是，剛剛司長有說要給我數據，其實我自己已經去撈數據了，勞動部有一個裁罰查詢系統，這個系統從106年開始，106年大概就是系統開辦的年份，我們只撈到22件，場域是在醫療、護理及長照機構，所以這顯示開罰率非常的低。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:23.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:24.601000+08:00","text":"請問這有沒有黑數？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:24.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:27.524000+08:00","text":"以及跟護理人員的「體感溫度」相不相符？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:28.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:40.075000+08:00","text":"因為怎麼會10年了，然後以醫療院所、護理院所、長照院所為關鍵字輸進去，開罰的居然只有22件，平均一年只有2.2件，不到3件。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:43.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:49.080000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，第一個，你這邊指的意思應該是在醫療、護理、長照機構裡面有22件……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:49.080000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:50.341000+08:00","text":"對，當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:50.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:51.181000+08:00","text":"不是說所有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:51.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:30:57.063000+08:00","text":"不是，但是醫療、護理、長照機構有幾百間、上千間耶！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰：我覺得這事情分兩段處理","start":"2026-06-03T10:30:59.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:05.147000+08:00","text":"第一個，只要有相關開罰的數據都應該要上網公布，這件事情我們會來做。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰：我覺得這事情分兩段處理","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:06.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:16.051000+08:00","text":"第二個，包括相關的查察或者申訴的案件，我們不是去追求案件多……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:16.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:17.892000+08:00","text":"當然不是，但是你們要實際開罰。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:18.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:19.333000+08:00","text":"對，我們不是追求案件多，而是當如果發生的時候……","quality":0.45},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:19.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:22.334000+08:00","text":"案件當然越少越好，代表沒發生啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:22.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:33.440000+08:00","text":"當如果真的有性騷擾事件發生的時候，我們要怎麼樣讓可能被騷擾的人能夠有更放心的條件去申訴……當然。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:33.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:36.722000+08:00","text":"然後也包括相關跟地方政府討論的查察。","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:37.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:55.551000+08:00","text":"以我剛剛講的新店的案件，他就是沒有採取立即有效的補救措施，這完全已經被法院認證了，我只是用這個案件來凸顯給大家看，對於雇主採取立即有效的補救措施，他在措施上、力道上其實都還有加強的空間，如果有加強的空間，開罰才會產生恫嚇力，讓他們進而去改善他們的行為，我覺得這非常的重要，問題是系統只看到過去10年寥寥可數的22件，我們覺得這跟護理人員的「體感溫度」差很多，也存在黑數。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:55.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:31:56.712000+08:00","text":"為什麼我敢說有黑數、「體感溫度」差很多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:31:56.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:27.771000+08:00","text":"因為全聯會有委託專家學者做一個計畫，在這個計畫當中，護理人員反映他們在職場環境遭受到性騷擾的比例高達40%到60%，這等於是日常嘛！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:28.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:31.994000+08:00","text":"可是從過去10年來看，卻只開罰一年不到3件。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:32.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:35.116000+08:00","text":"部長，不好意思，紅字是代表什麼意思？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:35.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:42.881000+08:00","text":"紅字是你擔任部長之後的開罰件數，我已經標示出來了，在醫療機構只有6件、在護理機構沒有、在長照機構只有2件，所以……再30秒、再30秒……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:42.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:43.881000+08:00","text":"要遵守，因為我們還要協商。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:43.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:44.881000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:42.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:44.342000+08:00","text":"部長，可不可以帶回去檢討，如何強制取締？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:44.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:32:45.223000+08:00","text":"是不是擴大勞檢，將其列為勞檢項目的措施之一？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:32:59.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:15.527000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，我最後做一個結語，請部長針對大禮包的部分給我們法源依據，當然您剛剛有講，只是整理出來給我們；還有財源的部分，就是每一項大禮包背後的財源請1個月內提供；再來就是落實我剛剛所說的……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:15.527000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:18.370000+08:00","text":"財源就是公務預算。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:18.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:18.370000+08:00","text":"就是獎勵計畫嘛！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:18.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:20.171000+08:00","text":"也是公務預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:20.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:28.097000+08:00","text":"你剛剛提到獎勵計畫，好，沒關係，還有提出書面報告，就是關於怎麼落實第十三條的事前防治、事後採取立即有效措施的對策。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:28.097000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:29.097000+08:00","text":"這部分我們可以來檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:28.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:28.397000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:28.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:28.597000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱慧洳委員的發言。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:33:29.097000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:33:37.097000+08:00","text":"接下來請邱鎮軍委員發言，待會在王育敏委員詢答完畢後休息10分鐘。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}