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洪部長今天是想跟你交流依法行政的概念我想依法行政當然有法就應該要落實那沒法就應該補落洞那這個法當然最主要是針對性別平等工作法來跟你交流那我想上個禮拜三立法院這箱如火如荼在討論台灣未來帳戶但是另外一箱就是總統"},{"start":36.329,"end":56.469,"text":"在同天也公布所謂的18項大禮包那我們發現這18項大禮包其實跟我們的台灣未來帳戶有蠻多雷同的地方那除此之外我們也發現就是台灣民眾黨在過去一年兩年提出的修法草案其實好像也跟你們的大禮包"},{"start":57.55,"end":82.441,"text":"在其中有看到類似的銀資那我想跟您請教一件事就是關於第一件事就是鼓勵企業來佈建這個托兒措施那當然我們民眾黨提到說這些佈建的費用如果扣除掉政府的補助之後那可以從盈利事業所得稅當中來扣除這筆費用那現在你們提出的禮包是說你們的支出費用是要從營業所得稅扣除200%"},{"start":84.622,"end":94.872,"text":"我們看到大禮包的圖卡是200%但是今天早上我看到書面資料看到的是200%的限度內那所謂限度內就是150% 100% 50%就是可以到200的意思啊"},{"start":98.323,"end":125.994,"text":"所以意思就是上限是200那你們的大禮包我們會覺得說200就是一個固定的數字但是今天看到你們的那個所以您現在澄清是200%的限度所以有可能是10% 50% 150% 200%這個依據是什麼跟我的說明基本上就是200基本上就200所以你們那個限度內我們為什麼訂到200因為我們看到很多委員的版本其實只有大概就是100%我們為什麼訂到200就是要增加鼓勵的誘因"},{"start":126.414,"end":139.867,"text":"了解好所以就是例如說他支出是不是1000萬所得稅的扣除以我們的版本有可能1000萬但你的版本會200%就是2000萬的意思OK好那第二件事想跟您請教說我們是有法律提案的"},{"start":140.623,"end":165.799,"text":"是 只是你們今天早上的那個文字說明叫限度內叫限度內 我只是在澄清到底是200我們的信用法裡面是有法律提案的好 OK 沒有問題 好了解 那第二件事就是我們那個產價的延長我想我們當然產價延長是一個共識各黨的共識 那現在就是說我們有流產價 流產價就是按現行的規定再多給一倍的價 但是好像"},{"start":166.94,"end":193.342,"text":"政府就是勞動部這邊好像對於這件事是沒有進一步提出一些政策有嗎在這次的修法裡面在這次新公法裡面我們其實也讓流產家原本是沒有薪資的部分讓他變成有薪資我知道這個我剛剛有看到但我在講日數因為我們的未滿兩個月的流產是五日變十日然後未滿二到三個月的流產是一個星期變兩個星期我在講日數當然薪資我剛在書面報告有提到"},{"start":193.922,"end":215.875,"text":"那日數 假的部分 您剛講是錢的部分不是在報告裡面 是在法案裡面直接就是有放出好 沒有問題 那我現在在講假 不是錢的部分因為您好像回答我錢的部分我們的確在這一次流產假的假的日數方面沒有增加對 是沒有增加 那是否因為流產其實身體也需要修復是否這邊可以來做一個考量其實"},{"start":219.743,"end":239.415,"text":"我們這一次針對流產價部分除了剛剛討論的薪資以外原本現行的勞基法規定的產價然後流產價部分是三個月以上的流產價那我們這一次讓勞基法跟薪工法有其一在假期間讓他有其一的規範所以勞基法那個部分也會有新增到"},{"start":239.995,"end":259.758,"text":"三個月以下的流產就包含三個月到兩個月兩個月以下的流產分別都有增訂進去所以我們認為說階段性的現在先讓這個勞基法跟性供法的期間先讓他起因了解但目前沒有未來你們不排除嗎是這樣的意思嗎目前沒有未來不排除是這樣的意思目前沒有什麼"},{"start":260.509,"end":275.196,"text":"就是我們有加倍目前的日數是沒有增加那未來是否有研議的可能性因為我們有提出這樣草案這樣草案到時候也會逐條審查那勞動部這邊是不是能夠給我們一點支持當然我覺得大家到時候是可以來討論"},{"start":276.277,"end":300.041,"text":"但是我們的確現在是處理是他的薪資的部分了解那現在就是這個育兒津貼嘛我想各版的版本有相當程度的公式就是津貼要提升然後那個請你的月數也要提升嘛那我看我們台灣民眾黨在兩年前就提出來了那勞動部這邊也跟上了那我們也樂觀其成那我想今天減少工時的問題很多委員之前有問嘛那減少工時當然目前就是減少一個小時的工時不得請求報酬"},{"start":304.662,"end":325.539,"text":"但是這個行政院這邊的大禮包就提到說可以提早一個小時下班那不減薪那不減薪我想我剛剛聽到您這邊的澄清好像應該是就是說雇主還是要給付如果提早一小時下班還是要給付這個員工那一個小時的薪資那至於政府的做法就是用一些獎勵計畫的補助把這一小時的工資補助給勞工嘛反而給雇主"},{"start":330.543,"end":359.983,"text":"那現在請問一個問題你要勞資獎勵計畫的內容的內涵是什麼可不可以一個月內給我們一個書面說明關於獎勵計畫的具體內容我先讓委員知道第一個的確在我們現在的獎勵計畫的設定裡面他是要勞資同意的所以要雇主他評估他企業的運作的狀況他是可以的我都同意這前提我們都知道獎勵計畫的內容我們現在在獎勵計畫的內容因為現在我們也在各地方政府在討論裁員我擔心的是裁員"},{"start":361.364,"end":376.513,"text":"財源我們都準備了準備啊就是要告訴我們講一句話的內容財源我們其實已經做了準備已經也跟行政院討論了那現在是在執行的方式上尤其是要跟地方政府一起來合作執行的方式我知道你當然有提到說就是為了企業不要讓他們運轉不過來所以其實不是強制的要那個但是"},{"start":382.356,"end":400.725,"text":"財源要先準備好因為如果僱主也願意但沒有財源可能就巧夫難為無名之吹我們其實有先做準備財源的準備那沒關係之後給我們書面報告關於財源那我現在第二件事是想請教那個新少老的房子那我想新少老的房子僱主有事前房子一物事後的一個採取立即有效處"},{"start":401.405,"end":417.493,"text":"那個措施立即有效的一個處理措施那這個如果這兩個義務如果沒有達到的話其實就會有行政罰款那我想問一下部長勞動部是不是針對僱主這兩個義務如果違反是不是有確實開罰"},{"start":420.579,"end":435.586,"text":"跟委員報告這個法有明定如同剛剛我們說的所以地方政府如果事業單位沒有做到性供法13條第一項或第二項地方政府查明屬實當然會開罰那你們有掌握這個開罰的數字嗎就是一年大約幾件"},{"start":438.429,"end":455.463,"text":"我們那個基本上地方政府在開法以後我們有要求一定要在一個月內處分的一個月內上那個系統公告所以那個件數在網站上面其實都可以查得到我知道查得到但你們有掌握嗎那個件數一年大概多少件還沒有掌握"},{"start":456.604,"end":473.86,"text":"待會跟委員回報沒有問題那我現在有一個問題我想要請教部長其實這個是真實發生的就是有個護理人員在洗身室被病人的家屬偷摸大腿然後結果當然就是一個性騷擾事件然後醫院的處理方式就是把這個洗身室的"},{"start":474.66,"end":488.945,"text":"護理人員呢他的採取立即有效補救措施就是把A區換到B區但是洗腎室是一個開放的空間你換到A區跟B區其實在同一個空間視覺上都可以看得到對方那這個病人家屬就是這個這個叫什麼性騷擾的人他五天之後又陪他媽媽回來洗腎結果呢發現他的護理師被調走了卻勃然大怒說你以為你是鄉親的嗎誰要碰你啊那所以又被公然侮辱了一次那我想問一下"},{"start":503.41,"end":512.362,"text":"在部長的眼中呢到底這個洗身是從A區調到B區是不是針對這個性騷擾事件的立即有效的一個補救措施"},{"start":514.941,"end":538.251,"text":"跟委員報告調動這件事情當然就如同委員剛剛提到的我們的法本意就是要做一個安全的他也採取補修措施是不是立即有效我想重點在立即要快然後重點在有效那我們現在整個制度上面設計如果當事人覺得說僱主你的安排仍然讓我處於是一種不安或危險的這樣的一個感覺的時候"},{"start":540.472,"end":563.122,"text":"其實我在想這已經不是主觀的認知了它這是一個洗身室完全是一個透明度非常高沒有隔間的一個區域然後它從A區域被調到B區域其實視覺都看得到然後找也找得到所以這顯然不是一個立即有效的補救措施我是這樣感覺這已經完全不是主觀的問題這也是一個客觀判斷的問題那當然這個案件也被這是哪一個縣市的"},{"start":564.002,"end":576.255,"text":"新北這個案件當然也被處理了就是有這個到法院去處理那這個案件那當然諸如此類的案件其實勞動部就是要確實開罰那現在重點剛剛市長有說要給我數據其實我自己已經去撈數據了從你們勞動部有一個裁罰查詢系統這個系統從106年開始那106年大概就是系統開辦的"},{"start":588.567,"end":603.544,"text":"我們其實只撈到22件場域是在醫療護理還有長照機構所以這顯示說開罰率非常的低非常的低那請問這個有沒有黑數還有跟護理人員的體感溫度相不相符"},{"start":604.145,"end":616.095,"text":"因為怎麼會10年了然後以醫療院所護理院所長照院所為關鍵字輸進去開罰率居然只有22件平均一年不到2.2件平均一年只有2.2件不到3件"},{"start":619.958,"end":648.289,"text":"跟文說明你這邊指的意思應該是在醫療護理長照機構裡面不是說所有嘛對不對醫療跟護理長照機構幾百間上千間我覺得這事情分兩段出來第一個是只要有相關開罰的數據都應該要上網公佈這件事情我們會來做第二件事情是如果這個包括相關的查查或者是申訴的案件"},{"start":650.21,"end":666.018,"text":"我們不是去追求案件多當然不是但是你要實際開放我們不是追求案件多案件當然越少越好啊代表真的沒發生啊當如果真的有性騷擾事件發生的時候我們要怎麼樣讓包括可能被騷擾的人能夠有更這個"},{"start":667.779,"end":686.629,"text":"放新的條件來去申訴當然然後也包括包括相關的地方因為以我剛講的新店的這個案件嘛他其實就是沒有採取立即有效的補救措施那這個完全已經被法院認證了我只是用這個案件來凸顯給大家看其實雇主對於採取立即有效的補救措施其實他在"},{"start":687.629,"end":692.752,"text":"措施上力道上其實都還有加強的空間那如果有加強空間開閥產生恫嚇力讓他們進而去改善他們的行為我覺得這非常的重要問題是系統只看到過去10年遼遙可數的22件那我們覺得這跟護理人員的體感溫度差很多啦也存在黑數那為什麼我敢說有黑數體感溫度差很多因為"},{"start":708.641,"end":735.299,"text":"其實全聯會有委託這個專家學者來做一個計劃那這個計劃其實呢護理人員他們反映說他們在職場的環境遭受到性騷擾的比例其實高達40到60%那這等於是日常嘛那可是從過去十年卻只有開罰一年不到三件那部長不好意思紅字是代表什麼意思紅字是你擔任部長之後開罰的件數我已經標示出來了在醫療機構只有六件"},{"start":738.741,"end":741.243,"text":"所以部長可不可以帶回去檢討如何強制的取締是不是擴大勞檢把它列為勞檢的項目是措施之一"},{"start":755.512,"end":769.886,"text":"好那因為時間的關係我最後做一個結語請部長呢針對大禮包的部分給我們法源依據當然您剛有講只是整理出來給我們還有裁員就是每一項大禮包背後的裁員請提供一個月那再來就是落實委員會"},{"start":771.247,"end":784.617,"text":"所說的 就是報那個嘛 獎勵計畫嘛 也是公務預算沒關係 那還有提出書面報告就是關於怎麼落實那個13條事前的防治事後的採取立即有效措施的對策那就謝謝部長 謝謝那謝謝邱會議委員的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}