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歡迎"},{"start":1355.569,"end":1369.882,"text":"財經資訊股份有限公司林國良林董事長歡迎我們請議事今日議程安排邀請中央銀行楊總裁金融進行業務報告我們現在請楊總裁進行業務報告請總裁"},{"start":1383.598,"end":1412.371,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生今天呈邀前來貴委員會報告本行業務自感榮幸本行經營目標在於促進金融穩定健全銀行業務維護對內及對外幣值穩定兼顧協助經濟發展以下緊究國內外經濟金融情勢以及大院上議會起以來本行執行貨幣信用與外匯政策等主要業務提出報告敬請會事指教"},{"start":1413.351,"end":1423.499,"text":"請翻開第二頁 國際經濟金融情勢貨物一預期本年全球經濟成長率低於上年明年呢 續趨緩第三頁"},{"start":1429.631,"end":1453.017,"text":"S&P Global 預期本年全球通膨由上年的4.5%降至3.3%明年續降至3.1%第二頁這邊S&P Global Market Intelligence預期本年全球經濟成長率為2.7%內地以上年的2.8%明年全球經濟成長率續降至2.6%第四頁"},{"start":1455.538,"end":1464.655,"text":"二 預期至本年底費的持續降息 ECB維持政策利率不變BOJ有望升息 人行則延續寬鬆基調"},{"start":1467.51,"end":1487.515,"text":"下面掛五一美德中十年期公債殖利率震盪日本則先跌或升第五月美元指數震盪走低主要經濟體貨幣對美元都走升第六月掛五三全球股價指數續創新高主要股市上漲第七月"},{"start":1489.098,"end":1501.036,"text":"全球本年全球經濟成長與同盟趨緩經濟前景面臨美國貿易政策發展及其影響人去不確定性主要央行貨幣政策走向分歧意義"},{"start":1502.014,"end":1519.502,"text":"与财政风险升温AI过于乐观风险与气候变迁中国大陆内需疲弱与生产过剩问题仍存在但诸多不确定因素人需持续关注后续发展及影响第八页国内经济金融情势"},{"start":1520.782,"end":1534.667,"text":"掛五一本年以來出口及民間投資成長又預期本年九月本行上修本年經濟成長率預測值4.55%第九月三本年九月本行理事會以來台灣"},{"start":1539.411,"end":1545.695,"text":"以來主要機構都上修本年台灣經濟成長預測值平均為5.02%明年本行預測經濟成長率為2.68%主要機構對台灣明年經濟成長率預測值平均為2.36%"},{"start":1564.453,"end":1586.804,"text":"請翻開12月3日預期本年台灣CPI年增率降至2%以下明年續降第15月掛無3日預期本年台灣CPI年增率降至2%以下明年續降本年9月本行預測本年台灣CPI及核心CPI年增率分別為1.75% 1.67%"},{"start":1589.525,"end":1612.145,"text":"低于上年的2.18% 1.88%主要 二 明年本行九月本行预测CPI及核心CPI廉政率分别降为1.66% 1.64%四 银行放款与投资成长率下降货币总计数廉政率先降或升"},{"start":1614.981,"end":1634.981,"text":"第十七月五銀行以貨幣市場利率小幅波動第十八月本行主要業務說明一本年九月本行維持政策利率不變有助整體經濟金融穩健發展十八月二本行根據執行選擇性金融管制措施"},{"start":1638.834,"end":1659.365,"text":"23月3本行透过公开市场操作及提供银行自主管理不动产贷款之弹性调整空间营造充裕的资金环境环境以支持传统产业及协助缓解民众申请房贷排布的现象27月"},{"start":1662.577,"end":1686.859,"text":"二 由于上半年国内汇市出现美元超额供给本行进场累计进买汇132.5亿美元以维持国内市场的稳定二十九月挂乌山本能迄今新台币兑美元升值6.95%升幅低于瑞士法郎及欧元高于日元及韩元"},{"start":1687.96,"end":1711.119,"text":"三十月挂五四新台币波动幅度相对稳定三十一月挂五五的一本行外汇存底是用于调节国际收支稳定金融及外汇市场本年九月底本行外汇存点是六零二九亿美元较上年底五七六七亿美元增加二六二亿美元"},{"start":1712.888,"end":1733.626,"text":"33月5本行啟動新台幣鈔券改版 掛五一即使電子支付日電普及現金仍很重要掛五二鈔券改版主要是為加強防偽並符合ESG永續發展的趨勢35月掛五三新台幣鈔券改版規劃一"},{"start":1737.469,"end":1754.254,"text":"新版鈔卷將採用更易於辨識的動態安全防衛特徵二 主題擇定過程將納入公民參與機制以凝聚社會的共識三 新版鈔卷材質主墨設及尺寸將維持不變並強化無障礙的設計"},{"start":1757.976,"end":1776.594,"text":"新台幣鈔券改版時程及成本的評估36月1至本行啟動改版程序預計所張新台幣鈔券與主題責定後兩年半發行2新版鈔券預估平均單價較現行流通鈔券高出1.5元"},{"start":1777.956,"end":1800.553,"text":"五 為確保鈔券防違功能與國際最新技術接軌以維護國家必信以及新版鈔券更符合ESG永續發展目標懇請各位委員頂住與支持本行啟動新台幣鈔券改版六 國內重要支付系統因應概括請各位委員執行參考"},{"start":1802.345,"end":1829.975,"text":"最後節餘40頁以上僅就國內外經濟金融情勢以本行主要業務提出檢要報告至於本行調節金融通貨發行外匯管理及經理國庫等業務概況則置於附路敬請著參本行兼顧促進金融穩定健全銀行業務維護對內及對外幣值穩定兼顧協助經濟發展之法定職責隨時密切注意國內外經濟金融情勢妥適應用各種政策工具"},{"start":1830.535,"end":1845.886,"text":"以達成政策目標本行業務速成各位委員頂住以支持請藉此機會表達衷心感謝之意今後人請各位委員實施指教謝謝好我們謝謝楊總裁好我們先確認議事錄我們在場委員對於這個上次議事錄有遺漏的話有沒有意見"},{"start":1859.264,"end":1883.717,"text":"沒有沒有意見我們意思錄確定現在開始詢答先做以下宣告每位初期委員發言時間8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間5分鐘今日上午10點這個截止發言登記現在我們依登記順序請登記第一位的林德福委員質詢"},{"start":1899.213,"end":1904.416,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請央行的楊總裁我們請楊總裁林委員早 總裁早我請問 因為主計長在上個禮拜財委會答詢時表示AI需求持續看好今年經濟成長率應該有一點低估應該可以超過4.5%"},{"start":1927.765,"end":1933.207,"text":"加上中心院大幅度的上修全年的經濟成長率到達5.45%那我請問總裁對於上修經濟成長率你有什麼看法是 謝謝委員"},{"start":1943.611,"end":1969.474,"text":"的指教事實上呢主席處他說他要上修這個經濟成長率那事實上呢我也跟委員報告最近很多機構都調升了我們台灣的經濟成長率為什麼呢因為在八月以後九月十月到目前為止我們的出口跟我們的投資啊都比預期的好"},{"start":1970.134,"end":1985.078,"text":"所以這就是他們要上修我們經濟成長率的主要的原因我在想我們會密切來關注因為我們在上一季的時候就在9月我們禮監事會的時候我們是估測是4.55但是從我剛剛所說的9月到10月到目前台灣的經濟的出口跟"},{"start":1994.98,"end":2019.701,"text":"投資都比預期的好所以我想我們12月會公布新的數據總裁我請問因為上休第四季經濟成長率和前年經濟成長率到底是原先預測失準還是明年經濟溫和成長的預測可能有正面的發展變化是不是這樣子"},{"start":2021.502,"end":2029.764,"text":"應該也可以這麼說基本上因為一開始的時候所有的機構包括中央銀行也是一樣的我們都認為上半年是拉貨的效應美國關稅的一個政策的一個影響拉貨效應會比較好但是後半年大家都預測說拉貨的效應會逐漸縮減但是沒有"},{"start":2045.127,"end":2060.179,"text":"所以这个就是说为什么所有的机构呢纷纷最近包括ATB也把我们的那个经济成长率都把它上修了那至于就是说是明年呢明年呢也大部分也都认为是在介于2.5到3%之间"},{"start":2063.72,"end":2085.981,"text":"這樣喔 那個總裁 按照中間院的估算內容前年的GDP年增率5%當中有4%是來自AI相關那我請問總裁 那是不是代表AI以外的國內產業很多都是衰退的 是不是確實委員說的 還有中間院說的也沒有錯"},{"start":2088.602,"end":2095.624,"text":"基本上就是說我們的出口主要的是電子自通訊產品它的出口非常的暢旺這個跟AI有關係又是跟AI有關係是 跟AI有關係傳統產業"},{"start":2109.548,"end":2117.481,"text":"AI那個傳統產業基本上到目前為止它的成長率overall 我就說傳產overall它的成長率不高低於1%以下"},{"start":2126.112,"end":2152.347,"text":"總裁因為上修經濟成長力會不會太弱關還是全球經濟成長有反轉的趨勢台灣更是能夠獨步全球又或者現在只是衰退現象的延後未來還是要面對衰退的一個苦果以您看呢我具有的看法就是說一般現在我們如果說再仔細看一下各個機構的一個觀察"},{"start":2154.568,"end":2171.525,"text":"他都認為這個AI的發展他可能還是會持續下去還會下去總裁因為川普對等關稅可以說這個政策攪亂了全球的經濟情勢"},{"start":2173.447,"end":2202.415,"text":"和台灣的對等關稅政策到現在也還沒有定案那中華民國的暫時關稅條件甚至於比日本比韓國這個還要差那有媒體報導說這個台美關稅談判傳出可能是以美規的車進口零關稅那全面開放美租等等的條件達成不疊加的稅率"},{"start":2203.616,"end":2209.829,"text":"那總裁要達到不疊加關稅的門檻就你的了解我們有什麼有利的籌碼"},{"start":2211.654,"end":2238.436,"text":"我想我們有利的籌碼如果說具有了解主要的還是就是說美國還是需要我們的有關AI的一個產品AI 問題是那個總裁因為本席當然是期盼以目前執政的民進黨絕對不能犧牲國內的產業以全民的健康來簽訂喪權辱國的談判內容因為你要進美租"},{"start":2239.577,"end":2246.607,"text":"然後這個用我們很多的產業外移等等來做談判的內容根據"},{"start":2249.104,"end":2274.019,"text":"日前副總統蕭美琴接受加拿大廣播公司的專訪時表示台灣已承諾在美國投資晶片的產業不僅是台積電還包括整個生態系那總裁原本承諾的台積電投資的籌碼看起來沒有辦法去說服美國取得較好的關稅條件那我請問"},{"start":2275.14,"end":2286.925,"text":"那肖副總統的台積電生態系或是鄭麗君副院長的台灣模式你認為能夠成就兩國對等互利的關稅談判籌碼嗎報告委員"},{"start":2292.955,"end":2299.559,"text":"我不是這一方面的專家不過我個人我的解讀我覺得我們台灣的一個經驗包括就是說我們的科學園區的一個經驗要到美國去我覺得這個是兩國之間的一個互利我覺得是互利"},{"start":2318.656,"end":2335.122,"text":"對啦 那問題是你不能把我們的健康對不對你進美租過去民進黨也還美牛而且那時候我們是有條件的但是你要進美租然後一些車又零關稅等等我認為啦"},{"start":2336.502,"end":2350.036,"text":"你包括整個尤其AI的你包括台積電整個產業鏈都要提出去你還有什麼籌碼跟你家談幾乎沒有什麼籌碼所以說美國就制定我們日韓15%我們20%還加疊加"},{"start":2354.58,"end":2374.978,"text":"所以說那些產業幾乎都沒有辦法生存你包括水滸金 工具機甚至於說包括蝴蝶蘭一些腳踏車業等等那些幾乎都沒有辦法生存最近中南部那些產業幾乎所有的員工很多都無薪假"},{"start":2376.158,"end":2391.424,"text":"那沒有辦法生存現在有那麼多人沒有工作這是很嚴重的問題因為無薪以後會造成社會問題它有一個整個一個等於是一系列會造成這些衝擊跟影響你有什麼看法"},{"start":2392.684,"end":2395.085,"text":"我覺得當然委員在講的這個部分是確實會對這些產業的不利的影響不過據我了解好像我們的談判慢慢接近尾聲而且好像是會低於20%這個我看報紙的"},{"start":2413.65,"end":2429.28,"text":"我們也期待我們期待20%而且不要跌價因為你要讓那些產業能夠生存因為你跟韓國 日本根本就沒辦法去跟人家競爭對不對 都比人家高你怎麼競爭總裁明年編列AI新十大建設預算311億元"},{"start":2433.283,"end":2460.297,"text":"那卓院長說這是未來國家發展的重中之重而8月下旬經濟部長龔明星接受聯合報專訪也說明年開始要推動AI的新時代建設希望把AI相關的技術來導入百工百業讓產業能夠升級來轉型那就本席瞭解產業轉型是指國家地區或產業透過系統性的調整其產業的結構將傳統"},{"start":2463.058,"end":2487.463,"text":"或低附加價值的產業轉變為新興或高附加價值的產業的過程那我請問總裁產業轉型或升級是用嘴巴說說的簡單的事嗎既然要這個範圍要導入百工百業你認為行政院編列明年的預算311億能夠一步到位促成百工百業轉型或升級成功嗎"},{"start":2488.783,"end":2496.565,"text":"要接軌AI相關技術百工百業的建制成本你認為是不是都已經準備好了我跟委員報告除了就是說資金的協助以外我想院裡面還有就是說還有經濟部他們對於實際上怎麼來協助他們我覺得他們也有做一些的安排嘴巴長很快但是要做"},{"start":2516.351,"end":2542.649,"text":"要做 食物做跟嘴巴講可能有一段距離就是說很落實的去做我想這個是很有幫助的我們希望說各個行業都很興旺當然我也希望說這些產業能夠轉型站在政府立場不要你讓傳統產業根本就沒有生存的空間這是我們大家的期待是 委員說的沒有錯"},{"start":2543.109,"end":2549.974,"text":"好 謝謝林德福委員總裁請回接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員質詢主席麻煩請中央銀行楊總裁好 請楊總裁"},{"start":2575.565,"end":2601.609,"text":"吳委員早早喔是這個看到你的報告裡面提到今年上半年的經濟成長率是GDP是6.75是那因為上半年已經結束所以這是確定的對沒有錯然後你們的預估是下半年是2.51是所以全年現在預估是4.55是那當然你剛剛有講說12月的時候你們還會再開一個會然後看看是不是調整"},{"start":2601.929,"end":2622.542,"text":"但是我提醒你第三季我們的出口仍然更超越以往更破紀錄所以我看這個明顯的2.5億這個預估應該是會要調高我想我們會仔細的去研究裡面一個很重要的原因就是我們的出口"},{"start":2623.362,"end":2631.535,"text":"尤其是電子跟AI產品的出口這個訂單持續在增加然後今年對美國的粗糙你認為應該會有多少金額"},{"start":2638.587,"end":2663.854,"text":"我有一個數據跟委員報告我們是也有做預估大概會1200億左右對啊 去年我們台灣看自己的報告是600多億的順差但是美國是說是700多億因為可能轉口什麼計算的標準不是很一致差距不大"},{"start":2666.255,"end":2684.868,"text":"這700多億的這個順差在美國來講就已經是他前幾名的這個順差國家所以站在國際貿易的角度你認為這個應該要如何平衡我們有時候講談政治也好談國家跟國家之好一地而處"},{"start":2685.909,"end":2706.07,"text":"今天如果有一個國家對台灣的粗糙是這麼的多的時候那你覺得台灣政府不應該要拿出一些對策嗎如果用這樣的想法相對的美國政府也對我們提出很多的對策包括他要跟你關稅談判然後希望你要多進口美國的東西要平衡貿易"},{"start":2708.526,"end":2723.514,"text":"這個目標不僅達不成如果照你剛剛預估數目今年的順差會達到1200多億那我覺得你未來的問題可能面對的要很嚴峻那總裁你的想法如何平衡台灣跟美國之間的國際貿易呢"},{"start":2725.395,"end":2740.322,"text":"我想報告委員剛剛你所講的就是說我們對美國的增加對他的一個採購這個是一個方式不管就是說是在國防後面還有其他還有另外"},{"start":2743.784,"end":2751.246,"text":"人家讓我們賺了這麼多錢我們如果合理的就是要跟人家買所以就是說現在我們要把我們就是說台灣的一個經驗要到美國去設廠我想如果說我們台積電在那邊設廠還有周遭的一些相關的產業鏈也能夠過去的話"},{"start":2768.211,"end":2770.212,"text":"這個我覺得我在猜想這個也是我們平衡我們中美貿易的一個很好的方式這個方式是這樣子的因為現在美國川普總統他們政府的政策就是要製造業重回美國"},{"start":2785.316,"end":2811.485,"text":"那製造業重圍美國當然非常多的面向其中包括AI跟電子產業裡面台灣扮演重要的角色那在造船方面韓國扮演重要的角色在其他的領域日本又扮演重要的角色等等所以這是一個國際之間如何跟美國在全世界建構的貿易再平衡然後配合美國的政策的一個重要指標那因為美國的勞動界就是說他們的"},{"start":2813.326,"end":2826.831,"text":"這個工人他的工作習慣跟台灣的文化是不一樣的另外台灣因為中小企業是很龐大所以我們是一個整個產業群組整個聚落所以我們譬如說我在台灣"},{"start":2827.97,"end":2853.344,"text":"做的是一部分然後大家打群架嘛才會做出最終端的好產品那美國基本上他們現在的製造業沒有這樣的概念所以才說要去美國複製科學園區的概念是這樣子的觀念那問題是這個是去美國投資是只有平衡這個金融帳啊我們去那邊投資弄了很多美金去美國投資但那還是台灣的錢啊"},{"start":2854.545,"end":2878.486,"text":"那台灣的企業到美國投資目的也是要賺更多的錢當然在美國會有製造會有工作機會但是那個只是一部分對啦沒有錯啦所以其實我是覺得政府的政策跟目前談判的方向跟美國的政策是整個是一貫的啦這個對美貿易談判喔我常常做一個比喻"},{"start":2879.287,"end":2898.586,"text":"是吃西餐的套餐啦是一攬子的不能光挑裡面的一樣出來比啦那老是要比說那現在韓國是15%那台灣20%比較高問題是你韓國大家一定要投資美國4000多億的美金啊那現在李在民回到韓國說"},{"start":2900.031,"end":2916.326,"text":"沒有辦法兌現因為他說如果兌現的話韓國可能會產生新的金融危機因為韓國的外匯存底跟比不上台灣他自己基本上也沒有4000多億美金可以拿出來去做投資那被打臉了之後現在美國政府回過頭來會怎麼對付韓國我們還在看"},{"start":2919.139,"end":2945.899,"text":"那當然因為美國有很多的問題啊譬如說他的最高法院最近也在對這個貿易談判的這個關稅問題在打法律官司在跟美國政府之間有人在跟美國政府之間打法律官司嘛所以這個10月底才會見真章嘛所以我覺得我們做一個公允的論證比較是一攬子的比較而不是只單一項目的比較沒有錯啦 是沒有錯"},{"start":2947.441,"end":2964.863,"text":"再來我要問你一個就是會對你產生的問題因為粗糙這麼多台灣又一直被列在外匯操縱的觀察名單因為粗糙樹木是三大指標裡面的一個很重要的指標所以你如何來面對下面"},{"start":2966.145,"end":2977.401,"text":"這個國家大好但是你央行在這一方面你要面對考驗那你跟我們回答一下你要如何委員講得沒有錯基本上美國財政部的匯率報告它三項的指標"},{"start":2982.428,"end":2987.749,"text":"第一項跟第二項就是經常帳的順差對GDP還有就對美國的一個順差的金額這兩項我們從以前到現在都一直存在的如果說第三項的話第三項如果我們又觸及到它的時候就如同委員說的我們就變成操縱了"},{"start":3006.494,"end":3010.277,"text":"操縱的話在現在關稅談判的過程當中如果我們又被他抓住把柄的話就是說我們台灣是操縱匯率的話這個就會變成一個很大的事件所以基本上我們央行也非常的注意他但是我想我們有兩個目標第一個目標我們是盡量的"},{"start":3036.654,"end":3041.298,"text":"要維持我們匯率的穩定讓我們的進出口廠商它的報價能夠穩定它的營運能夠順暢這是第一個我們的目標這個我覺得最重要的是第二個目標我們"},{"start":3054.568,"end":3057.031,"text":"因為我們跟美國之間財政部在討論的過程當中我們彼此之間的一個關係也蠻良好的也蠻良好的溝通順暢溝通非常順暢但是即使是順暢但是我們還是不要去踩到他的紅線"},{"start":3074.291,"end":3096.626,"text":"但是總裁我現在是講你前面剛剛講那兩樣是我們台灣一直存在沒有錯但是去年存在的客觀現實是對美順超700多億美金但是今年你已經預估到1200多億所以前面那個不利的因素在累加你不能夠說我出超700多億的時候跟出超1200多億的時候是一樣的看待"},{"start":3097.006,"end":3100.01,"text":"我覺得美國不一定會這樣看待你我們不能一廂情願不過我也跟委員報告在目前的情況之下我們也要認為事實上美國在AI的方面它也是非常依賴我們台灣"},{"start":3113.01,"end":3134.405,"text":"當然我覺得技術上面還有製造上面我們跟美國是互補如果是未來的高科技產業所謂的電子高科技產業AI這一方面我覺得美國跟台灣的合作會是未來世界的先驅我們已經知道好的位置當然希望繼續維持下去但是我是覺得說"},{"start":3136.205,"end":3153.313,"text":"這個方面如何跟我們跟美國之間的匯率等等這些問題當然最重要是要維持穩定因為台灣的市場小你如果太多的美金進到台灣投資這些股市然後來來去去會造成幣值的不穩定沒有錯 委員也是觀察得非常的仔細"},{"start":3154.754,"end":3170.35,"text":"最後一個小問題就是你的新台幣改版你說要向公眾提出徵詢我先表達我的意見給你聽我是希望未來的新台幣不要再把政治人物放到上面去當這個頭像其實那個時代已經過去了早足以太"},{"start":3174.796,"end":3195.864,"text":"這彰顯台灣的特色台灣的東西把它放到這上面來這是我的建議無論是哪一個政治人物都不要再放上去委員的建議 委員的我想我們會納入參考好 謝謝 加油謝謝你的這個責任很重是 謝謝 謝謝委員主席我們謝謝吳秉瑞委員總裁請回接下來我們請賴世保委員質詢"},{"start":3215.685,"end":3223.589,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請楊總裁請楊總裁老遠早你早我比較關心新台幣要改版的事情是現在是限定在千元跟百元嗎還是什麼銅板沒有"},{"start":3243.87,"end":3251.154,"text":"我想我們會一系列的不是 因為你報告有寫你報告已經寫了 基本上銅板不會改因為銅板不會改因為那個清車道成本比較高對不對 紙鈔你要改是不是 所以我就跟你確定說是不是1000塊的也要改100塊的也要改 是不是可能"},{"start":3268.004,"end":3269.885,"text":"我們會諮詢委員 兩個都改我們就是一系列這樣的來討論這個總裁 我原來都覺得你很獨立沒有政治考量 你這個的話就是呼應"},{"start":3288.778,"end":3307.659,"text":"這個執政黨的這種轉型正義的做法嘛原來彭總裁的手在那裡說不用蓋蓋了蓋了還跟我抱怨要五百億結果你原來去年的時候今年吧是不是那個什麼十二強去年還是今年啦"},{"start":3308.672,"end":3314.416,"text":"去年的時候12強 他講的時候我看你還守得住 你就覺得說你發一個銀幣 紀念銀幣你不要用我發紙鈔 結果你現在還是做了沒有 我跟委員報告基本上我們這一次的改版絕對不會有政治上的一個考量"},{"start":3337.061,"end":3348.993,"text":"因為我們這邊寫得很清楚我們的鈔券都已經24年如果相較於主要的國家來比較我們真的是很慢了美國最近也沒有改版"},{"start":3350.492,"end":3351.133,"text":"美國改版是把華盛頓的人頭小小的變成大大的"},{"start":3368.914,"end":3371.235,"text":"是這樣子 是人頭是把小小的變大大的這改版是這樣改的 對不對你現在來講的話 這個很清楚就是轉型正義的後面的以法工作絕對沒有 我在國衛殿堂呢 我不會打狂語好 好 而且喔"},{"start":3394.468,"end":3406.534,"text":"我比较另外一个角度给你看我本来对你是很尊敬的是我希望以后要继续不能继续尊敬因为你的任期到什么时候"},{"start":3408.183,"end":3412.045,"text":"可能還兩年左右兩年半啦 你兩年半嘟嘟好這個東西嘟嘟好 你要接任期的時候接起來 看要不要接第三任就變這樣沒有 委員講得太遠了講得太遠會讓我們"},{"start":3427.793,"end":3429.835,"text":"委員講得太遠了讓我沒辦法想像兩年半是你講的你說從開始這個委員會謝謝委員不過委員一直都在支持我們還有鼓勵我們我們也希望這一個改版的事情委員能夠支持我們"},{"start":3444.572,"end":3450.317,"text":"如果太多政治的話就不會支持了不會啦不會啦那我就問你準備花多少錢啊你跟我講啦準備花多少錢我們這邊沒有講啊就是說一張的那個成本會加1.5啊不是啦那你全部要花多少錢啊包括字幕版什麼之類的我說喔你這裡沒有寫你包括沒有寫看我們的那個發行的量啦"},{"start":3469.213,"end":3477.546,"text":"但是我跟各位我跟委員報告如果說以現在目前的量過去發的量多少現在目前現在是50億流通在"},{"start":3482.301,"end":3484.743,"text":"你們兩個人在講話時間要把我扣掉現在就是說我們流通在外的是10億張但是它會慢慢的下來但是就是說因為它的張數沒辦法控制不曉得因為它會有下降的一個趨勢我們只列出就是說每張1.5"},{"start":3507.597,"end":3518.288,"text":"增加1.5增加1.5你看看我們報告委員那就是60億沒有報告委員我跟你報告一下3.5我們如果一張3.5增加到1.5的話大概是增加40%左右但是你要想想看24年"},{"start":3529.64,"end":3539.769,"text":"對不對 二十四年增加那你現在的物料什麼的啊二十四年 然後增加百分之四十五我覺得是合理的現在都還沒辦法評估嘛那個彭淮南總裁以前說要改版要花五百億我跟委員報告我們那個時候的五百億"},{"start":3556.553,"end":3559.499,"text":"五分之四以上都是銅板"},{"start":3561.328,"end":3572.574,"text":"五分之四以上都是銅牌那乘以五分之一好了那是一百億那乘以五分之一就一百億五分之一好了就五分之一一百億所以我果然沒錯就是要改這個要一百億那是以前的估算那是以前的估算現在估算更高現在不曉得要看那個張數不是現在物價的成本物價上漲能夠增加所以我就說1.5所以我說如果說我們不現在改版的話成本會更高"},{"start":3592.47,"end":3596.134,"text":"成本會更高所以現在時間現在的時點是剛好啦我是不瞭解到底24年我們這邊來看的話14年16年11年到24年那我們是最慢的這個鈔票是什麼地方愛了你的眼啦這個東西"},{"start":3610.572,"end":3631.713,"text":"一千塊的也沒有政治人物啊一千塊的有誰有誰啊你講到這裡的時候我也跟你報告所以呢我們的土壤你看看像包括就是說我們那個科技我們的科技你看看我們那個科技我們一千塊跟兩千塊的科技跟我們現在台灣的一個科技來比較的話我覺得啊"},{"start":3633.434,"end":3638.277,"text":"我們科技發展得很快所以我總覺得我們要與時俱進與時俱進這個東西你說沒有你的考量是大家是不會相信的最少我都不會相信的"},{"start":3650.925,"end":3659.818,"text":"跟這個有關係的來世界十二強的時候我們有紀念幣 紀念銀幣那麼你一幣一枚是1600塊預購上線36000枚那是好多人要結果抽籤抽到"},{"start":3668.169,"end":3669.651,"text":"結果繳款只有2.85剩下7500你怎麼處理沒有 我們就是說他有繳款的我們就製造這麼多我們就製造這麼多因為為什麼會就是說"},{"start":3683.626,"end":3686.328,"text":"上線因為有很多人就怕抽不到所以他就重複的去那個他重複下單結果他抽到重複下單他抽到6個當然他大概是繳款所以你不會再發行不會啦因為我覺得這樣的話造成我們的困擾這是第一個第二個"},{"start":3711.489,"end":3715.965,"text":"好像市場上也認為就是說煙太久了之後也會冷掉"},{"start":3717.886,"end":3741.354,"text":"這個世界十二強老實講都認為紀念幣不錯啊你就是七七五八把它發完啊我也覺得不錯啦就把它發完啦你又不要當然啦我們會但是呢現在就是已經確定了確定只發兩萬八千枚確定就是說他繳款的是有多少萬枚那我們就製造多少我們再看喔那個總裁啊美國下週決定降息一般預估他會降息嘛對不對"},{"start":3742.354,"end":3746.698,"text":"我在想Market都是認為就是說它會降息而且它的Chairman Power他好像也Hint說10月跟12月可能都會降息所以各將一碼啦 對不對對 市場也是這樣的意思好 那降了之後台幣就有升值壓力囉"},{"start":3764.666,"end":3768.828,"text":"這個也難說啦 怎麼會很難說上一次他不是降息嗎結果他降息之後美元反而強起來所以不要在這裡做猜測這種不是預測 這種是猜測猜測的時候會誤導我們的投資人"},{"start":3793.596,"end":3820.245,"text":"所以說美國降息美金會再往前往上漲我不敢這麼說我只是說前面的那個例子就是說他降息的結果在美元後面美元就漲起來那你看川普上任之後川普的一個做法是盡量不要cash所以黃金一直漲比特幣一直漲黃金我們香港有沒有身家買啊"},{"start":3821.809,"end":3837.101,"text":"央行有沒有多買一點黃金 最近我們沒有咧今年開始都沒有增加對 沒有你今天很多不 不過我跟委員報告基本上主要的專案銀行都沒有買黃金去買的是俄羅斯俄羅斯 中國大陸"},{"start":3842.225,"end":3865.774,"text":"哈薩克也買對 當然哈薩克是small還有印度 這些大概就是說因為印度也是印度的民間一般來講他中央銀行他是也有買但是民間主要的還是民間的力量不是中央銀行的力量最近黃金的上漲是民間的力量不是中央銀行的力量所以黃金後市你不干擾"},{"start":3867.975,"end":3888.482,"text":"這個我不去猜測它 我也不去預測它因為你可以看到川普的代金實質等於說他告訴全世界 握有現金都會貶值所以最好是握有其他非現金的一些資產包括黃金 包括比特幣這種講法對不對我覺得他也不是這麼說"},{"start":3894.225,"end":3916.241,"text":"現象就現象最後一個小問題韓國總統說如果因為美國要他cash他本來說政府融資要保證他都不接受要cash3500億他的外存底大概4000多億對不對所以他說會引起亞洲金融風暴日本也不答應結果我們通通答應了我們要去亞我們要投資4000億我們的外存底只有6000億不到對不對5800嘛"},{"start":3922.606,"end":3936.637,"text":"我們的四千億我也不曉得是不是真的就所說的但是即使是有這個四千億但是大部分都是我們民間的不是官方我知道 但是外匯存底外匯存底當然是民間的他還是要跟你買匯"},{"start":3943.154,"end":3945.516,"text":"他說我們去那邊去投資的那些他的賺那個美元他賺得很多他不必要在市場買他現在是賣所以我就說他不必用到我們的外市場的不必要韓國說如果他投資3500億會有亞洲金融風暴這一句話"},{"start":3966.69,"end":3981.22,"text":"你認不認同即使我想他沒有說亞洲金融風暴他是說他會發生金融危機他沒有說亞洲會發生金融危機好像是說他說他韓國會發生金融危機你認不認同這句話當然啦 我知道台灣很健全"},{"start":3992.267,"end":4000.611,"text":"不是 韓國會不會有金融風暴他如果去3500億我們台股也是不錯 我覺得我問你韓國 你跟我講台股台股 你說台股嗎沒有 我說韓國會不會金融風暴說韓國怎麼樣會不會 因為他的總統說如果去投資3500億的話會產生金融風暴他是說他 他不是說亞洲對 那你同意不同意"},{"start":4020.559,"end":4039.692,"text":"這個我也很難想像 我也很難想像說他剩3500億 這個不要去問我應該是要去問他的中央銀行總裁還有跟他問他的財政部部長你今天給人家亂說話讓我對你的主見少了好幾分總裁有他的看法 寶哥好 謝謝接下來請郭國文委員質詢"},{"start":4057.668,"end":4058.55,"text":"主席有請楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":4065.081,"end":4077.904,"text":"郭委員早總裁你好這一次台幣要改版我個人認為時間真的是太慢了因為主要的國家大概都是16年到24年你這個時間點再加個兩年半到2028前前後後拖了28年主要國家大概是我們最慢的更何況美國的話大概是5到7年他就會改版小局部的改版為了什麼"},{"start":4091.767,"end":4105.683,"text":"就為了防偽 對不對所以說這個改版是因應整個科技的進步所以一定要先做就拖了那麼久那到底這次改版我想要問一下總裁到底會花多少錢"},{"start":4106.764,"end":4108.745,"text":"我們這邊有講就是說每一張我們會增加1.5塊總數啦譬如講你們在2018年就有一個內部官方說改版要450億就是說這個總數到目前我們很難去評估它啦就是說因為它"},{"start":4123.075,"end":4132.162,"text":"我們的鈔券它的使用量會慢慢地遞減對 沒有錯所以這個也很難去掌握我現在就是說在2018年你們曾經為了改版估計了450億的改版的總經費那是全部回收跟全部換算我覺得那個真的是估計得太誇張了我跟委員報告一來要如實但是除了這個之外"},{"start":4152.457,"end":4172.844,"text":"第二個要實用 為什麼因為一般而言台幣跟日幣不一樣日幣最近20年之後就改版了台幣跟日幣有一個不好用的地方就太大張 太大張因為台幣的部分日幣的高度是76公分 76mm然後另外長度是100到160mm可是新台幣是70"},{"start":4182.227,"end":4193.672,"text":"然後長度是145到165但美鈔的部分都是一樣的美鈔規格它不論是幣值多少都一樣那我們其實可以考慮把這個"},{"start":4196.533,"end":4199.856,"text":"以後的鈔票的面積稍微縮小一來好用 二來環保三來又可以節省成本我不曉得總裁你這樣建議怎麼樣我覺得委員的想法本來我們在這邊是寫那個尺寸不變不過我總覺得因為我們有執行委員會執行委員"},{"start":4220.117,"end":4222.239,"text":"事實上委員你這個概念你這個建立我覺得也是蠻大家的皮夾都越來越少使用的機率越來越少我們發行局的局長在這裡我們的印製廠的同事也在這邊"},{"start":4243.639,"end":4270.959,"text":"他都听得到所以我觉得委员的这个建议我觉得是蛮好的因为你的报告是越环保化减少纸张的面积就是越环保而且还省钱你只要用颜色做一个区隔就好了不是吗是 我们来研究这个我们来考量你现在流通量现在为止已经每日大概3.5兆了对不对 是差不多嘛"},{"start":4273.34,"end":4290.892,"text":"然后硬币的部分是1400也就是随着电子支付的话整个纸钞的使用率已经逐年下降了是不是那我还再问一个问题但是在流通的过程当中你有没有看过这个面额流通数最少的是哪一个"},{"start":4291.512,"end":4296.736,"text":"大概是200塊200跟2000對不對200跟2000這個流通這麼低你們還會想要考慮再印製嗎我跟委員報告事實上各個國家它對於二各個國家的紙鈔二的流通力都不高"},{"start":4311.147,"end":4313.75,"text":"對 但是二 它是一個搭配事實上這個問題我們內部我們也自己有考量過事實上有一些我記得我們上次有委員去我們的印製廠考察的時候"},{"start":4329.325,"end":4349.66,"text":"有一些的委員到認為就是說這個200塊是很好用的因為那個成本他可以總裁我這邊全部美金的面額我都有一個2的就是有20元也沒有200的不 他的200就很大了那200 他的200乘以我們的30就相當於多少"},{"start":4350.14,"end":4377.265,"text":"沒有 沒有啦 我說麵這個麵 紫草的麵沒兩百的啦是啊 日本也沒兩萬的嘛 對不對為什麼一定要一個兩千的呢日本有兩千的啦沒有兩萬 我說沒有兩萬的啦他們的二也只有一個而已嘛你又一個兩百 又一個兩千那個流通率都很低就不用考慮了我們再考量啦 考量一下好不好委員的今天的建議我總結了我們都會可以納入參考啦"},{"start":4380.186,"end":4386.707,"text":"我也不是說現在馬上就說這個不是用實用面的角度來思考好不好用實用面的角度另外一個幣是未來的幣就穩定幣的部分那穩定幣現在可能是省時又便利因為現在的這個跨境交易大概1到5天然後手續費大概0.2到甚至到50美元穩定幣的手續費大概0.1"},{"start":4405.431,"end":4423.241,"text":"但是它会不会冲击到既有目前这一个金融业的跨境汇兑的业务因为毕竟美元占有这一个台湾整体的国际汇兑的部分高达97美元是应该是稳定币就想要绑定的货币"},{"start":4424.061,"end":4434.106,"text":"這個部分的衝擊你們有沒有評估委員的意思就是說是評估就是說對 它會之後就會減少這些現在既有的跨境交易委員的意思就是說它現在穩定幣的跨境的支付如果穩定幣發行之後取代率會不會很高會不會衝擊會來取代SWIFT的跨境你的意思就是我在想你們要評估"},{"start":4453.696,"end":4469.803,"text":"對 如果委員 我跟委員報告如果穩定幣如果說大家都認為它好用的話當然有一部分會取代一定會取代嘛對 有一部分會取代但是前提要出來就是說第一個它成功而且它好用"},{"start":4470.143,"end":4482.898,"text":"对 前提是这样子你要先考虑一个第二个考虑要入法也就是我们管理外汇条例当中现在没有稳定币只有外国货币或票据或者有价证券 对不对是不是要考虑入法"},{"start":4484.047,"end":4510.752,"text":"现在我们的报告委员现在有我们的那个虚拟资产服务法这个里面它就会入法这个入在这个虚拟资产服务法当中第三还有一个整个国际流通的过程当中会发现所谓的伪造 冒用或篡改它还有一个属于在做一个监控那未来稳定币的部分有没有可能需要类似的机构"},{"start":4512.493,"end":4524.519,"text":"我想在虛擬資產服務法那邊的執法我們會跟金管會好好的去溝通你們就一起討論這是你們共同業務本席是做一個提醒是 沒有錯 委員講得沒有錯"},{"start":4529.821,"end":4543.552,"text":"你央行的報告當中的這個估計未來的GDP所佔有的這個成長率相對而言4.5那平均其他的地方都是5.02你說是12月份的時候你們還會再做考量沒有錯但是我是說你們在之前的這個報告當中有一個滿有趣的報告的表就是說"},{"start":4552.119,"end":4555.944,"text":"製造業對經濟成長貢獻大佔GDP的比重是2.68那同時引起話題的是營造工程業是有0.07不動產是0.06"},{"start":4567.479,"end":4585.637,"text":"這些行業就很不服氣啊明明他們是火車頭看起來好像央行的總裁跟他打臉說他們根本不是火車頭是不是 你意思是不是這樣子沒有意思我們沒有這個意思這數字上呈現出來的意思是這樣子啊我跟委員報告四少月才是火車頭不是嗎貢獻的比例最高2.86啊我跟委員報告啦事實上這個"},{"start":4591.542,"end":4593.583,"text":"我們只是說看到一個社論還有報紙有一些的報紙都在說就是說我們的不動產業是經濟的火車頭我們一直覺得就是說這個概念可能要稍微要澄清一下要澄清"},{"start":4612.172,"end":4619.441,"text":"因為不是嘛 所以才要澄清嘛不是針對他澄清嘛 你就主要澄清事實上不是嘛 對不對沒有 對 每一個產業都重要委員 每一個產業都重要我們只是說對那個它的貢獻是怎麼樣這主要是在這裡你12月份的時候會不會再公布一次不會啦"},{"start":4632.316,"end":4648.193,"text":"為什麼不會為什麼6月公佈 12月就不公佈因為我總覺得你的GDP未來不是12月要重新評估嗎你重新評估的時候讓國人知道說哪些行業對這一個國家的GDP貢獻比較大這有什麼不好"},{"start":4650.215,"end":4668.149,"text":"對啦當然啦你就是怕人家打臉說你打臉你才不好意思公佈嘛那你就據時公佈有什麼關係呢是啦沒有錯我們只是說據時來公佈這些據時公佈有什麼關係呢對啦就是這個意思啦好不好12月再公佈一次嘛我們考慮考慮啦你考慮一下嘛考慮考慮"},{"start":4670.15,"end":4690.007,"text":"最後的部分那個我還有一個小問題要問那個最近這個外資我不要說我們去猜測到底那個估黃金的價格但是目前為止我們央行所持有的黃金的這個噸數公噸數總高達是424公噸那全球算排行第15名"},{"start":4697.973,"end":4713.667,"text":"价大约是1.8兆台币1.8兆台币但是成本据说只有一千多亿而已是那个获利将近十倍以上是 没有错这个东西有没有可能卖或是只买不卖"},{"start":4714.207,"end":4717.689,"text":"我不曉得這個央行現在的態度是怎麼樣我們不賣啦但是我們也有考量到如果說我們的外匯存底足夠多的話那我們也考量就是說要買再買但是要再買但是現在目前我給委員你是外資足夠多不是 我們的外匯存底如果說足夠多的話我們考慮再買考慮再買 這是一個嘛另外一個"},{"start":4741.943,"end":4764.377,"text":"当初央行其实有超过七成的时候是在70年代的时候为了平衡台美贸易这个顺差所迈进的现在问题是重新出现我们顺差这么多现在台美正在面临这个谈判问题你之前写的报告就说这农产品好 能源要采买 薰构这就可以平衡顺差"},{"start":4765.858,"end":4789.367,"text":"這一步這麼好用 你為什麼不用沒有 後來你用過雖然就是說用過但是美國不承認不承認不承認說用黃錢這明明報告當中是寫的就是用這種方式來購買黃金來平衡貿易順差然後你現在不承認當時我們買的是動機是這樣但是美國不承認當時是沒有承認當時沒有承認但是有沒有實質的效果"},{"start":4790.888,"end":4809.922,"text":"當然我們買進來了以後它的評價越來越高沒有 有效果如果可以平衡順差的話為什麼不考慮一個方法它沒有平衡順差的那個效果沒有辦法的效果沒有這個效果如果有效果就會考慮有效果就會考慮當然 如果有效果的話我們會考慮那就好好考慮現在黃金的部分就是維持只買不賣是 謝謝總裁"},{"start":4819.289,"end":4825.737,"text":"好 謝謝郭國文委員接下來請賴會員委員質詢好 謝謝主席有請央行總裁好 請央總裁"},{"start":4839.121,"end":4850.865,"text":"好 楊總裁 總裁早安我想從數位貨幣到那個選擇性的一個信用管制那今天跟你探討這幾個議題我想這個CBDC"},{"start":4858.789,"end":4885.041,"text":"我可以不可以 總裁我可以不可以講說它就是未來的數位新台幣是 可以 委員講得沒有錯就數位新台幣 對嘛是 我們央行的一個就是我們希望就是把它的一個那個政策面就是定格在這個地方是 沒有錯那定格在這個地方的時候你希望就是說它會期待"},{"start":4886.221,"end":4896.318,"text":"以後的這個就是我們的那個零售支付的一個補充工具嗎是 沒有錯就是類似支付寶的一個概念對 應該是 對"},{"start":4899.281,"end":4920.167,"text":"那對老人又如何?所以委員考慮得很周到所以我們這次現金的改版也有這樣的意思現金你們還是沒辦法取代的電子支付你還是沒辦法取代現金的"},{"start":4921.287,"end":4938.842,"text":"所以我們就說這一次的改版每一個國家的改版他也不會說因為現在的電子資物很發達所以他就不要獻金了 不是反而是應該要考量到我們的弱勢群體金融沒有普及的地方還有老年人他的數位的知識不足的"},{"start":4942.868,"end":4947.711,"text":"所以總裁 所以你有分階段那你CPTC已經在進行了這個策略已經在進行了那就是說已經在規劃了那你的新台幣還要再改版事實上也延續就是郭委員剛才質詢的內容"},{"start":4962.16,"end":4976.106,"text":"他也必須要改版因為太久的時間了太久的時間還有就是說當今的環境其實大家在使用貨幣的習慣已經慢慢做了很大很大的一個改變不管是大鈔還是就是說100元還是有時候我們連那個紙那個就是銅板"},{"start":4983.849,"end":4988.473,"text":"不常用的時候還會有點搞錯不過銅板我們這一次不改版銅板這一次不改版為什麼不改版因為銅板第一個它面額小這是第一個第二個它改版了以後它的成本反而超過沒有改版的效益沒有改版的效益對 因為它慢慢的會淘汰它慢慢的會淘汰掉"},{"start":5010.322,"end":5038.829,"text":"他慢慢會淘汰掉所以說我們可是如果我們就是在看全世界不管是歐美不管是日本的話他們的銅板他們其實還是一個非常流行的貨幣他還是有在流通但是他也沒有改版他也沒有改版所以鄰近的國家他們基本上一般國家主要國家他在改版都是紙鈔沒有涉及到銅板"},{"start":5040.325,"end":5055.101,"text":"好 那我们很清楚啦就是说CBDC它可能是未来现今的一个数位化的一个替代品也可能是我们支付体系的一个改革最重要的工具那它跟比特币呢"},{"start":5055.701,"end":5075.342,"text":"它跟比特幣如果我做這樣子的一個比較的話 仲裁當然就是說你這一個CPTC是一個法定的貨幣它得到了國家的一個支持那它可以集中管理那它也是安全性是比較高的那它價值也是穩定"},{"start":5076.383,"end":5092.15,"text":"那日常的支付還有跨境的交易其實就是政府的資金的分配都是穩定的那成本也比較低那尤其是國內的一個交易那你認為就是說如果這兩個貨幣的話"},{"start":5096.465,"end":5101.214,"text":"你還可以突顯你的CBDC更優勢的地方在哪裡那當然第一個我想"},{"start":5107.168,"end":5135.897,"text":"央行的數位貨幣它在支付方面它是沒有問題的但是比特幣因為價格波動太大它沒有以前一開始的時候就說比特幣就是要來當支付它是一個虛擬的資產它不是貨幣但是它一開始發展的時候它是想要變成一個支付的工具"},{"start":5136.437,"end":5140.659,"text":"但是從他開始2008 2009一直到現在他都沒有實現也就是說他沒辦法因為他被太多人操縱了因為他基本上而且他也人為操縱第二個他也會洗錢什麼的之類的這些所以比特幣基本上當初就是說希望他作為一個支付的工具到目前為止都沒有"},{"start":5159.749,"end":5180.008,"text":"謝謝總裁我們再拉回來核心消費者的物價指數其實整體來講都算是穩定可是通膨的風險跟利率政策的一個平衡這也考驗著央行在整個政策面上如何的去執行我先用國泰金在10月份他有一個國民經濟的一個信心調查這個民調裡頭"},{"start":5183.451,"end":5207.074,"text":"有六成的民眾認為物價偏高六成的民眾認為物價偏高總裁你有沒有這樣的感覺委員如果說這麼說的話我可以這麼說就是說基本上低所得的民眾會覺得說我們的物價偏高"},{"start":5209.134,"end":5223.559,"text":"為什麼說低所得的會比較認為物價會偏高因為低所得者他大部分的他大部分的收入來源很大一部分都是在民生用品方面沒有錯 當然民生的話 這個是波動是比較大"},{"start":5228.496,"end":5247.886,"text":"可是這個體感通膨已經衝擊到就是說我們的壽星家庭還有中產階級的家庭他的感受會比較大中產家庭其實這個體感通膨也影響到了因為我們可以期他可能會越來越貴所以有很多人其實是沒什麼改善"},{"start":5251.528,"end":5273.485,"text":"你看在家裡頭開火的人也越來越多了所以我也不問你說蚵仔蒸很晚多久因為每一個區域性不同可是可預期就是我們感受到市場其實物價指數就是說像你講的這個吃的 民生的 吃的 吃新的一直都起來"},{"start":5274.165,"end":5288.05,"text":"是 没有错最近就是说在很多房间的一个民调他认为央行是双杀我们的首购主还有换屋主怎么讲"},{"start":5290.892,"end":5294.335,"text":"沒有啦 總裁你不會說沒有啦我聽你這個笑聲就有點心虛啦不會耶因為你在笑你不會如果你是很有自信你會笑到那麼大聲你現在笑到小聲小聲這個是有點壯膽"},{"start":5309.049,"end":5322.559,"text":"有沒有這樣的一個意味沒有 我覺得我們的選擇信用管制你看看我們選擇信用管制我們都強調我們的信用資源要給所購足"},{"start":5323.72,"end":5328.942,"text":"要給都耕者 要給社會住宅的我跟你講 我講一個案例給你聽這一家人本來是要換房子"},{"start":5341.708,"end":5358.51,"text":"結果他因為你的豪宅貸款的一個限制結果被逼上了節錄這個是這個小市民的心聲他投到我的那個粉專上頭來不過委員我跟委員報告事實上有一些"},{"start":5359.853,"end":5374.291,"text":"事實上他都認為就是說他是我們選擇信用管制的一個被我們選擇信用管制到了事實上我們有很多的case去了解事實上不是"},{"start":5375.753,"end":5390.586,"text":"所以大家都认为他借不到钱是因为中央营养的关系是央行卡死了为什么不是炒房是换屋结果被豪宅线卡死了我今天买一个4500万的房子就是说我在台南我议约了一个3800万的地售屋"},{"start":5398.653,"end":5412.723,"text":"結果交屋的時候銀行的建價是4200萬結果被認為是豪宅那貸款從原來的預期的7成降為3成況且這個3成還是企業價是本來的3800萬的企業價那你看來去就差了1140萬那資金的切口就變成1500萬"},{"start":5426.093,"end":5453.908,"text":"你想這麼差大的一個差異誰有這麼大的一筆錢可是如果你讓我慢慢繳的時候我是買得起這個3800萬的房子所以你的當然就是被你卡死了對 不過我跟委員報告事實上建商跟我們的預購房屋的消費者他們之間也有一個定型化契約"},{"start":5455.29,"end":5464.316,"text":"那個定型化契約裡面他就有定的就是說在不可規則的因素之下如果說他的貸款跟他的貸款跟他房子要購物的"},{"start":5471.36,"end":5492.33,"text":"你如果把它講到這個定型業那個定型性的一個企業這個是另外那我來跟你討論的就是你豪宅的認定標準已經十幾年你根本都沒有調整那你那個央行的標準脫節了這麼久你看你在101年的時候"},{"start":5494.264,"end":5519.159,"text":"你要不要让我讲好 我能讲所以就是说我希望也建议你是不是这个豪宅在台北市我们可以调整为9000万不然你看整个台北市每一个人都是住豪宅怎么会是这个样子呢少数人不住豪宅绝大部分的人在台北市都住豪宅因为都超过7000万"},{"start":5520.64,"end":5537.084,"text":"那新北市我們調整為7500萬其他的縣市是不是可以調整為5500萬你拿回去做參考好不好美人的建立我們拿回去參考了好不好我想這個已經造成名焰相當深那我們還是要充分的研究謝謝總裁 謝謝主席"},{"start":5548.117,"end":5553.922,"text":"好 謝謝我們賴會員委員的質詢結束接下來請林思明委員好 謝謝主席我們請央行楊總裁"},{"start":5568.042,"end":5583.672,"text":"總裁 我想大家一直關心那個我們這個新台幣鈔券改版的一個規劃那央行在業務報告中提到將進行的改版的規劃會成立一個臨時性的任務單位"},{"start":5584.973,"end":5606.93,"text":"新台幣鈔券主題諮詢委員會來廣伸各界的意見並建立公民參與的機制以決定改版的主題然後一旦任務完成就會解散所以我想請問總裁我們這一次的鈔券新台幣我們的報告是講已經虧為24年了所以現在要啟動改版"},{"start":5612.196,"end":5613.996,"text":"我想了解是所有的面額的橫式鈔券都要全部改版嗎是流通的五種這五種都要改嗎現在就是說我們預計是這樣子但是我們一步一步的時候這中間是不是會有一些的變數現在還不曉得"},{"start":5633.041,"end":5639.886,"text":"預計是這樣子所以不一定是五種全部會改預計是這樣子其實總裁我們來看一下其實100元的這個面額的這個券鈔是沒有錯是在這個89年首次印刷90年發行現在24年了500元的也是在89年首次印刷89年發行"},{"start":5654.778,"end":5669.263,"text":"但是他在民國93年有做改版改成第二版新版是在94年發行那1000元是在88年首次印刷89年發行93年也改二版這個在94年發行"},{"start":5672.825,"end":5690.423,"text":"200元是在90年90年改版 91年發行那2000元的是在90年首次印刷91年發行 對所以我們來看就是我們目前鈔券的流通性"},{"start":5691.912,"end":5705.61,"text":"以100元 500元還有1000元的流通性最高200元的還有2000元的它的流通性是不是就偏低對 200元的是最低 2000元的還好啦"},{"start":5711.096,"end":5736.002,"text":"2000元的还好其实我们观察就是其实这个我们200还有2000元的大概都是在逢年过节的时候大家才会去换这个市面上使用的也会比较多反正每一种超炫也是五种颜色所以我们称它为五色超"},{"start":5736.962,"end":5759.595,"text":"五色超只有在我們逢年過節包紅包的時候我們才會去使用到所以我是建議啦這我的建議就200塊跟2000塊的這個是不是未來在你們在資訊文會在研究的時候 在討論的時候為了節省成本這兩種是不是可以不用改"},{"start":5761.256,"end":5782.126,"text":"流通性低這是委員的 我們就把它記下來總裁你可以考量一下另外 剛剛也提到我們新版的江山卓國際間的綠色卷鈔的發行趨勢採用更環保的原物料並強化綠色製程更符合ESG永續發展的目標"},{"start":5783.286,"end":5799.223,"text":"至於硬幣我們因為這個數量多價值低改版不具效益則不考慮改這個當然我們也認同那剛才我也提了一下就是說我們實際上就是整個券超的改版我剛才聽到郭委員他有說一個統計"},{"start":5800.524,"end":5815.309,"text":"那是不是現在世界上的主要國家它的券鈔的改版都是大概就是都是你剛才提到16年16年就改嗎對 有的我們在這邊講的有的11年就改了有的16年在這邊有的是20年 有的21年"},{"start":5820.412,"end":5836.403,"text":"23年所以我们24年算短了不是为了政策上的考量澳洲也是24年刚才因为一直提到说这是为了政策上的考量因为去年之前没有不会为了因应棒球经典赛的不会如果说因应棒球经典赛我们就不会做那个什么纪念币了"},{"start":5837.624,"end":5847.93,"text":"是不是總裁我們希望不要有政策上的考量說為了這個而去配合什麼轉型陣營不會不會不會建設畢竟已經大家使用那麼多年了大家也滿習慣的如果是為了因為這個符合國際的潮流因為這個時間也用滿久了想要用新版的去改版"},{"start":5856.415,"end":5871.65,"text":"符合ESG的這個永續發展的目標我想這個當然或者綠色的強化綠色的製程這個我想大家是還可以接受的當然我想其實我們現在最主要我們要去關心的就是它的主題是什麼"},{"start":5873.427,"end":5900.962,"text":"目前有沒有規劃央行有沒有初步的規劃就是你未來1000元的我們現在這個1000元的或者500元的或者100元的有沒有初步規劃它的主題是什麼我想我們這個就是說為什麼我們會組成一個諮詢委員會的原因也是在這裡但是央行到現在沒有初步的規劃我們還沒有我們今天來報跟財委會報告以後我們就立即來成立"},{"start":5901.682,"end":5907.644,"text":"是 就來推動總裁現在就是我們看到有就是棒球當然是這個經典賽這個主題是我們現在看到100元的實際上就是我們的少棒選手的是100元是國父講說的對 國父選手500元的是我們的少棒國手的對"},{"start":5923.951,"end":5938.223,"text":"所以這一次我們再如果改版500元的會改嗎因為本身就是跟辦公室相關我在想 我跟委員報告講到這裡的時候我才跟委員報告一下就是說我們500塊我們會改"},{"start":5939.924,"end":5945.148,"text":"但是至于是不是会改成什么样要去改成经典赛的吗因为它的主题就棒球但是对了那是正面包括它的背面背面你看看就是说我们500块一定要改为什么呢我们的500块的背面它是梅花路梅花路以前是保育动物"},{"start":5965.492,"end":5990.485,"text":"保育的所以我們才列入這個鈔券但是現在梅花路我記得現在就說梅花路都已經環值太多了而且去侵犯到那個什麼農作物所以我的一個想法就是說既然500元的券鈔要改本來它的正面也是哨棒國手是不是你就要把這一部分500元的就主題去偏向於說設計城市跟棒球有關的"},{"start":5992.446,"end":6007.079,"text":"我想諮詢委員會會來決定另外我想了解就是說我們整個諮詢委員會大概會招募哪些成員這個成員我來請我們的發行局局長來跟你打呼好嗎"},{"start":6008.777,"end":6033.999,"text":"是 跟委員報告我們大概會請例如說生態的專家 科技的專家文化界的代表或是體育的專家代表等等 這個是大概人數有多少就各行各業你們都會去領選我們大概初步規劃大概會有十幾位十幾位 是那領選的機制由誰來去領選他們是就我們央行嗎 是的由央行來領選"},{"start":6035.64,"end":6051.096,"text":"那最后决定招票这个我想还是很关心那个主题因为现在一直谈到说会有公民参与的机制公民参与的机制那我们又是用什么样的方式来进行公民参与是用投票吗 还是什么方式"},{"start":6052.447,"end":6079.422,"text":"我們就會賦予這個資訊委員會委員來決定怎麼樣來做這個公民參與例如說網路的調查或是說書面的問卷等等但是你要做這些你初步就會有一個規劃就是那個主題是什麼你應該都會設計出來吧才去做這個公民參與的一個機制還是說你們一開始就是主題完全沒有讓公民去做一個設計是怎麼樣"},{"start":6081.463,"end":6098.86,"text":"跟委員報告我們的概念是說請諮詢委員會能夠提出例如十幾個主題然後給這一個公民來票選這是就是請諮詢委員會來執行這件事情然後做最後的建議這樣"},{"start":6100.549,"end":6112.627,"text":"所以還是諮詢委員會成立之後我們初步還是會把主題做一個相關的一個提出來再去透過公民參與的機制去決定是怎麼樣的一個主題是"},{"start":6113.686,"end":6138.661,"text":"就大概模式是這樣 確定是這樣大概模式是這樣不過這個現在是剛好要推的過程這中間會有做那兩年半一定會就把它設計出來對 就說這個Process大概就是說這個Process如果確定了以後那這個大概就是兩年半就要兩年半 走兩年半整個設計的過程要兩年半"},{"start":6139.298,"end":6161.075,"text":"不是設計的不用啊還是就是兩年半之內就會全部把它完成就會開始發行關於委員報告就是說我們要主題要確定之後這兩年半並不是包含去確定主題的時間那決定主題要多少時間那還要看這個進行的順不順利這樣"},{"start":6163.811,"end":6180.63,"text":"我剩下最後幾秒鐘再請問一下我們2025年我國的經濟穩健成長上半年是成長6.45%下半年預估是2.51%全年平均大概4.55%"},{"start":6182.432,"end":6206.882,"text":"那央行這個預估的通膨率在9月 就今年9月大概今年9月已經就預估就估出來的大概1.25%所以我們物價上漲的壓力不大所以在這個我們經濟看起來成長率是蠻穩定的但是物價卻反而下降我看到國外 日本央行"},{"start":6207.762,"end":6230.094,"text":"他考量關稅對經濟與物價影響是不確定性 人高所以在5月 6月 7月及9月均決意維持我們的政策利率他們的政策利率不變唯若關稅不確定下降薪資成長與通膨之良性循環符合預期他們要持升息的一個立場 這是日本"},{"start":6231.134,"end":6260.634,"text":"中國大陸它經濟成長趨緩通膨低迷所以中國人民銀行5月降息降準並運用多樣的政策工具促進經濟及物價回升預期他們的貨幣政策持續的寬鬆所以要請教總裁我們的央行為了促進我們的經濟及物價的穩定回升會採取哪些政策讓我們的物價及匯率持續的穩定"},{"start":6261.434,"end":6267.799,"text":"我想我們在九月份的禮監事會裡面我們會還是持續的觀察第一個我們就持續的觀察就是說美國的關稅政策的不確定性它的發展會怎麼樣還有各個國家它的一個匯率政策的走向是如何"},{"start":6283.61,"end":6285.553,"text":"基本上就台灣來看的話基本上我們的經濟成長都是穩健我們的物價雖然就是說是第1.2 9月份是1.2級不過整個來講的話還是1.77 1到9月份所以我們的利率還是會"},{"start":6301.894,"end":6319.967,"text":"我再想我們的沒有降息或者升息的這樣的一個我想這個還不會因為我們穩健我們的物價是這樣子的話大概升息的機會是不會是不高的升息的機會是不高的以上 謝謝是好 我們結束林思明委員的質詢"},{"start":6336.53,"end":6344.997,"text":"好 接下來我們請李燕秀委員質詢謝謝召委可不可以請總裁好 請總裁委員早總裁早安我先延續前面幾位委員對於新台幣改版的問題我想先就教於總裁因為去年前年我們台灣的棒球得到世界冠軍的時候當時我還記得我有質詢說我們要不要改版"},{"start":6365.493,"end":6386.682,"text":"因為大家對於台灣的驕傲台灣之光大家都非常的開心當時總裁的回應是說目前沒有規劃計畫怎麼在不到一年多的時間馬上就說我們準備改版改版這件事情應該是一個長期既定性的東西但是為什麼會這麼快速就有一個這樣子的轉變"},{"start":6389.244,"end":6398.569,"text":"我報告委員你說我當時就說我們沒有規劃說要改版這個我好像我沒有說這一句話"},{"start":6400.26,"end":6419.225,"text":"你認為這個是既定的如果說我講這句話沒關係 我今天有好幾個議題要就教於您 總裁既定的計畫既定的計畫當中其實有一個很重要的因素是我們希望新的新台幣改版之後除了設計之外還有一個是防偽的功能事實上"},{"start":6419.845,"end":6433.832,"text":"新台幣防偽的功能每一次我們改版我們都在講說這個防偽的功能很重要我們都在加強我要請問總裁我們過去就是說是現在好了到目前為止我們新台幣有偽鈔的狀況非常多嗎沒有"},{"start":6437.421,"end":6456.83,"text":"不高對 不高那我們還要再增加什麼樣的功能我想 我就不懂因為換一次新台幣就是說每換一次新台幣有它特殊就是說既定的改版之外它的意義到底是什麼"},{"start":6457.81,"end":6483.157,"text":"我想是這樣子啦不管是外界有人譬如說你們是有政治上的操作不會不會絕對不會你想達到的功能是什麼第一個還是就是說因為就是科技的進步即使是說我們現在的微超率很低我們還是要做改版為什麼事實上其他的國家他改版的國家很多也是他的微超率也是很低的"},{"start":6483.917,"end":6488.001,"text":"這是第一點所以就說你的改版所以多久改版所以有委員就認為我們24年收集還是太慢了因為有的國家的還11年我覺得應該去收集大家的資料還有對我們來說多久改版一次"},{"start":6503.394,"end":6508.636,"text":"是恰當的另外我們希望達到什麼樣的目的我覺得這才能夠說服大家因為每改版一次所花的經費也不少沒有錯 委員講的沒有錯不過剛剛你委員在問說什麼功能第一個當然你要達到什麼樣特殊的意義對"},{"start":6522.502,"end":6536.605,"text":"剛剛也是在講就是說現在的科技進步得非常快所以我們要未雨綢繆所以即使是很多國家它的微潮率也很低但是它還是要改版因為為什麼那你還是沒有回答我你要達到什麼樣的目的總裁你簡答就好因為我今天好幾個問題我再講一個你看看我們的鈔券2000塊還有1000塊那個科技"},{"start":6547.248,"end":6553.432,"text":"科技是那個時候我們台灣的科技但是現在我們台灣的科技你看看我們台灣的科技已經是進步的很大了我覺得台灣科技進步你要達到什麼目的還有剛剛我剛剛在講的就是說像我們500塊的背面那個水路 那個梅花路梅花路以前是保育動物現在就是"},{"start":6566.101,"end":6571.566,"text":"妳那個還是設計我是意思說功能上妳希望達到什麼樣的目的設計我知道環圍還有就與時定定環圍 過去也很環圍第三個就是環保環保"},{"start":6580.805,"end":6590.296,"text":"好 我希望我本來期待聽到更多不一樣的答案我想基本上大概就只有這樣子而已就只有這樣我們要花多少經費來做改版我們要花多少經費來做改版我們每張就 我們報告也寫了就是說我們每張會增加1.5塊好 總裁因為我今天要質詢的議題很多好"},{"start":6603.73,"end":6628.048,"text":"我再次恭喜總裁就是說我們又回到環球金融雜誌又回到把你列為A減總裁A-的總裁又回到A那這一次能夠創立這樣子再回到A-最主要原因有四個原因包括我們經濟成長表現得還不錯我們今年有達到2.1還有通膨我們控制得還不錯剛剛其他委員有質詢到我們再次"},{"start":6629.409,"end":6650.981,"text":"低於2%在2%跟1.65之間還有踩漸進式的貨幣緊縮政策那第四個就是我們靈活的總體審查的一些相關的一些政策在裡頭那包括賴總統也提到就是說包括在今年國慶上他也特別提到亞銀今年最新報告我們今年的成長我們經濟成長率由3.3%上調到5.1%"},{"start":6656.024,"end":6679.688,"text":"在亞洲四小龍裡面我們也再次要上第一名我們的經濟成長也超越了中國大陸我想請問總裁就是說從這幾個數據主計處上一次我問他他說我們今年年初的時候我問他他說今年經濟成長預估大概4.45%而已因為可能會有關稅不確定性的因素在那因為現在已經10月中了"},{"start":6680.328,"end":6688.611,"text":"所以他預估說會到5%那我們央行是4.55亞銀是5.10我想請問一下總裁就是說我們看亞銀這個數字你會不會覺得它是過於樂觀還是說你覺得主計處是過於保守"},{"start":6701.255,"end":6707.841,"text":"因為每差一點 差一點我就差很多因為就是說我剛剛也有報告就是說從我們的4.55我們的數據是到8月底但是到9月 10月到目前為止"},{"start":6716.989,"end":6730.261,"text":"總裁我問的是全年所以我想請問你對於這個數據你預估你到目前為止到9月4.5所以到年底你預估是多少所以我們年底要預估多少我們12月才會公佈所以你不能預估我們現在沒辦法"},{"start":6734.705,"end":6740.207,"text":"但是我跟你怎麼看你怎麼看我覺得他們不是說太樂觀而是他們收集到的一個資訊是比較完整的所以你看那你覺得亞銀的數字是怎麼樣亞銀的數據不值得參考也不是太樂觀可能他的probability我們現在只能用機率他的probability也蠻高的"},{"start":6763.789,"end":6780.77,"text":"但是賴總統是用亞營的數字賴總統賴總統是用亞營的數字代表他對於你們的數字是打問號的我要提醒總裁沒關係總裁我想提一下明年那我再回過頭來明年整體大家對於明年整體的經濟成長其實都"},{"start":6783.934,"end":6802.831,"text":"主席總數是預估只有2.55就是說明年整體的經濟是下修的狀況其實當然還包括美國關稅的不確定因素實在是太高了所以我們央行包括明年外界有在講說可能會雪崩式的下跌到3%以下那我們有什麼樣"},{"start":6803.832,"end":6828.342,"text":"因應的策略跟政策我跟委員報告這邊就是說有一些的報告說是會雪崩式的下跌我是不認同你不要講雪崩式會下跌到3%下跌第一個有很大的一個因素第一個就是說因為你的前面的基期就已經很高了所以它會下來我認為是也是合理的"},{"start":6829.442,"end":6843.395,"text":"總裁我請問你你的因應工具是什麼不管它最後結果是什麼不管結果是什麼不管是2%還是3%我當然不希望是3%以下但是你因應的策略跟工具到底是什麼我覺得所以我們的貨幣政策我們就看看我們的情況事實上我覺得假設說我們明年是3%的話我覺得3%還算是不錯的"},{"start":6855.136,"end":6879.686,"text":"3%不是算是很低的3%算是很好的那如果2%或2.5%的話你的因應策略是什麼我只問你說你的因應策略是什麼我說2.5%到3%都算不錯所以如果有3%的話你的因應策略不會出動就對了大概如果說還有3%的話我覺得如果2%或2.5%你的因應策略是什麼"},{"start":6880.887,"end":6892.744,"text":"那再看嘛我現在也沒辦法來回答委員的這個問題啊這12月你的工具擺在前面你手上哪些工具事實上是清楚我們的貨幣政策跟匯率政策就是這兩個工具嘛"},{"start":6896.388,"end":6906.191,"text":"貨幣政策就是利息的調整或是存款準備率或是open market operation就是說一個那個總裁 我希望要提早做準備因為全世界大家對於明年還不只台灣全世界明年整理經濟下修的狀況我不知道會不會連帶性的風險我不清楚"},{"start":6917.174,"end":6933.692,"text":"但是我覺得隨時要做好那個風險的管控會另外剛才有其他委員講到就是說雖然CPI我們控制還不錯但是民生通膨的問題雖然是你想說低薪資所得感受特別深但是事實擺在眼前我們每一年都在講"},{"start":6934.693,"end":6964.012,"text":"民生通膨的問題非常的嚴重但這幾年事實上都沒有改善包括在雞蛋在肉類在素食在麵包還有外食族跟租金事實上通膨是一年比一年高所以我們才講說這是失溫的體感經濟對人民對於很多大多數民眾在金字塔中下階段大家是生活的非常辛苦而且是一年比一年辛苦總裁我們的因應策略做法是什麼"},{"start":6964.552,"end":6971.737,"text":"我覺得剛剛的委員 不可能不改 雖然央行是看一個整體但是對於民生通膨的問題到底怎麼處理這個就是說低所得的民生的物價的持續在上升事實上沒有 是越來越穩定的你覺得是越來越穩定是越來越穩定的 是越來越下降的所以一個排骨飯"},{"start":6990.851,"end":7012.779,"text":"越来越高你觉得其实价格是越来越低但是总裁因为我时间已经到了你说你觉得价格是越来越稳定但是我要提醒你现在多数的民众领到薪水他们都会认为我的薪水即便有涨幅2% 3%但是全部都被民生通膨吃掉了"},{"start":7014.039,"end":7042.401,"text":"这是真正民生的感受如果总裁你的感受是这样包括各部会的看法也是这样难怪现在民进党政府离所有的民意离民众实在是越来越遥远因为这就是失温的经济失温的体温经济人民是过得越来越辛苦事实上我们的薪资今年的薪资包括服务业跟那个什么服务业跟那个我们的制造业工业"},{"start":7043.021,"end":7071.851,"text":"他的我們的那個實質薪資是正的我知道是正的但是很多人也感受到現在民生CPI的成長所有長的薪資都被統統去掉這也是另外一個事實這也是另外一個事實所以行總裁有機會雖然你這一次再回到A-的總裁還是回到民生多走動走動了解各個民生階層的看法好不好謝謝李燕秀 李委員"},{"start":7074.265,"end":7078.169,"text":"總裁請回接下來我們請李坤城委員質詢謝謝主席這個我們請楊總裁好 請楊總裁"},{"start":7099.29,"end":7117.803,"text":"總裁好 看到您的報告就是說新台幣決定要來改版了現在已經有發行了24年的時間現在所以先要改版那請問一下要改版的是指100 500 1000嗎還是只有500我們都會改都會改預計啦 現在是預計說5張都要改"},{"start":7124.628,"end":7133.57,"text":"我們看一下就是說現在台幣現在是有100有200有500有1000有2000所以這五種都要改嗎是預計因為我們現在要成立一個諮詢委員這個會討論到最後的決定是怎麼樣到目前為止不過我們預計是這五張都要改版"},{"start":7151.213,"end":7167.3,"text":"我自己在流通上面大概是100 500 1000比較常用 200跟2000現在流通量怎麼樣對 流通量200是比較少 那個2000塊還好2000塊還好對 2000塊還好2000塊之所以還好是因為我們個人用2000塊的不多但是機構"},{"start":7175.163,"end":7182.63,"text":"公司行號他在用2000塊的會比較多所以一般我們在ATM我們會用到2000塊的比較少所以200還會再繼續再發尋嗎所以我們也會考量所以諮詢委員我們只是說我現在就是說預計改版就是說這五張都要改版但是我們成立了諮詢委員會到最後也是由他來"},{"start":7199.006,"end":7221.344,"text":"給我們的一些的建議我們改版也要看未來的流通性目前大家來看的話剛剛也有委員做這樣的一個建議所以這個都是為流工我們做參考因為200的確是流通量比較少看到所以說這五種的圖案都會做更改就對了"},{"start":7224.033,"end":7249.19,"text":"如果说改版的话基本上图案都是会改的不过现在我都还在讲因为你们有一个委员会是由他来决定来给我们做最后的一个建议所以理论上你看我们500是93年的然后1000块也是93年然后2000块是90年其实都没有特定的政治人物"},{"start":7251.45,"end":7269.235,"text":"其實我也希望說未來新台幣改版這一個不要有特定的政治人物在上面這個我們會類為參考我們就彰顯台灣的精神彰顯台灣的價值的方式有很多所以我是希望說既然有這個計畫要改版的話"},{"start":7269.975,"end":7289.897,"text":"然后这个目前的这个100 200 500 1000 2000这五种都要改版那我是建议说不要有这个政治人物的图案在上面那再请教一下那目前的这一个因为那个总裁有提到说是要防伪那目前我们的伪操的数量多吗不多"},{"start":7290.658,"end":7305.942,"text":"不多 所以表示我們的防偽性還是算是好的那有沒有一個數據有啊 我們2014年我們有但是每年都不高 都不會超過以前是0.2總裁你的數據是哪一年的2024年這個是0.05百萬0.05百萬"},{"start":7319.454,"end":7323.74,"text":"每百萬張就只有0.05張每百萬張有0.05張0.05%每百萬張有0.05張是什麼意思0.05"},{"start":7334.614,"end":7351.977,"text":"很低 我們很低以前是高 現在是越來越低你們有分嗎比如說是1000的 500的 100的有這樣分嗎因為你這樣應該是概括的這是概括的有沒有分嗎比如說1000的比較多還是500的多還是100的比較多每張有的嗎 沒有有嗎 有這樣區分嗎"},{"start":7353.779,"end":7373.254,"text":"沒有 我們這個是overall的這其實應該要做這樣的區分才對你才知道說是哪一種有可能被偽造那他可能1000的機會會比較高因為他的面值比較大 我在猜但是你們沒有做這方面的統計你們就只有全部的這是去年的"},{"start":7374.654,"end":7380.418,"text":"對 這個是去年的那這幾年下來的數據都差不多嗎都差不多2022、2023、2024都差不多都大概是百萬分之0.5張嗎對 就每百萬張就只有0.06張"},{"start":7395.744,"end":7418.83,"text":"0.05 0.05 0.06 0.05 0.06張大概是好 那請問一下那現在改版的這一個這每一張啦因為我看你們的資料目前的流通的票券平均單價是3.5塊是不是對 沒有錯那所以說 那你說那現在未來要做的話是高出1.5那所以說等於是平均每一張是5塊錢對 5塊錢如果加起來是5塊錢那因為剛剛很多委員有關心到說"},{"start":7420.509,"end":7449.479,"text":"大概如果要改版的話需要多少的預算我剛聽這個總裁意思是說看我們的發行量對 我們要看我們的發行量而且我們大概也會在116年或是117年會編117年以後我們會編列預算那時候編列預算就會比較明確大概一個比如說你現在市面上流通的這個新台幣的大概張數有多少"},{"start":7454.137,"end":7470.792,"text":"50億張50億張 對那你不用每一次就全部換掉嘛對不對對啦 當然啦 不用啦逐年太萬嘛是 逐年太萬對啊 那所以說那大概你們第一年你們第一年病人預算大概需要多少這個目前還沒有做這樣的一個評估或者說你們希望太萬的話一年希望太萬要多少我們7億到10億"},{"start":7474.231,"end":7486.294,"text":"要大概是7億到10億7億到10億就是每一年汰換的話那數字也很好算出來7億到10億如果10億就50億因為這樣5塊錢的話平均來講所以就是大概平均編到大概50億左右"},{"start":7495.373,"end":7516.006,"text":"是這樣子算嗎 沒有錯因為從你們每一年台灣的數量然後每一張平均的單價來看的話那大概是這個數據那剛才因為你們會適合我永惠我們只是提到說我們的一些看法希望說彰顯台灣精神不要有政治人物 哪一黨都一樣"},{"start":7517.247,"end":7531.946,"text":"現在過去也都一樣好 那請教一下總裁我們現在有可能最快11月初要普發現金1萬塊是對 那我看你們報告裡面寫說你們有這個數位金流平台對這是要負責發放現金1萬塊的單位嗎"},{"start":7536.838,"end":7558.839,"text":"它有好幾個方式對啊 因為它現在有五種方式但是如果說對數位的 發放數位的就是由我們的平台來提供來 董事長來講一下好就是說普發先進以外快跟你們相關性的平台的作用在哪裡"},{"start":7559.998,"end":7587.956,"text":"跟委員報告照目前行政院的規劃第一個在網站上面的登記也是在這個平台的功能裡面第二個在身份的核驗也是在這個平台的功能裡面當然剛剛委員提到的真正在發放現金這五種通路的總控管也是在這個平台裡面最後譬如說路障或是提線都是在這個平台裡面控管所以我們登記路障ATM領線"},{"start":7589.797,"end":7616.793,"text":"郵局領線 這個都跟你們有關係嗎都有都有關係 對都是在你們這一個數位公共建設金流平台是這是第一次使用嗎這是之前6000的時候有用但是那個只是比較雛形的然後我們整個在央行的指導下把它整成一個數位公共的建設的金流平台以這個名字來看是第一次使用第一次使用"},{"start":7617.97,"end":7644.829,"text":"那你有沒有測試過有 因為現在剛開始的時候大家已經大概擠在前兩天要去領這一萬塊所以你看就是說如果這個包含登記登記應該是在網路上面登記是不是然後ATM郵局這個應該都是跟你們有相關的是都有那有沒有做過這個壓力測試有不要說你第一天就大家去領結果說整個平台都塞車"},{"start":7645.729,"end":7656.121,"text":"有 這個跟委員報告第一個在做這個事情它前面有分流的機制第二個這個壓力測試我們都有完全的做完不是 你們壓力測試怎麼測試比如說上線多少人"},{"start":7657.643,"end":7683.591,"text":"我們壓力測試就是說我們模擬有在台灣發的交易有在國外發的交易 因為登記這些的量我們用雲端的設備來做大量的登記對 我的意思是說有沒有去說譬如說1秒多少人進去就像有時候在買票一樣就會當機那你們有做過這個測試嗎說1秒大概多少人進去然後就有可能會當機"},{"start":7684.551,"end":7693.966,"text":"有 我們做的是這個平台每一秒它可以有2000人以上然後持續一個小時譬如說我每一秒都2000人都這樣子進來擠了一個小時我們都沒有問題都沒問題 如果到3000人"},{"start":7700.115,"end":7716.025,"text":"3000人目前來看我們的系統的設計是橫向的就是說我們也準備了一些備援的這個機器如果真的量很大的時候我們機器就加進去董事長不要最後有塞車塞車最後變成這個發現其實是好事結果發現說這個塞車大家又在抱怨"},{"start":7716.585,"end":7730.204,"text":"是的 跟委員報告是說有沒有信心通過這個考驗我們是有信心就是說如果說他真的很大量因為他整個前面會有分流的機制也會有管制的機制這樣子可以讓他順順的把它做完這樣我時間到了嗎"},{"start":7735.07,"end":7753.422,"text":"我問最後一題好了問一下總裁好了因為我看到我們CPI其實在食物類都偏高因為現在這兩天都發生台中非洲豬味的事情對我們CPI會不會有影響"},{"start":7755.503,"end":7760.705,"text":"這個我們昨天也有討論到這個一開始的時候大家都認為可能會豬肉因為豬肉的價格本來最近都比較高就是說可能會但是豬瘟疫發生的時候可能需求量也會下來剛開始一定會搶對 剛開始是供應不足但是現在有可能就是說因為是這樣子的話需求量會減少"},{"start":7781.11,"end":7794.319,"text":"如果說供給不增加然後需求量減少的話那大概價格就不會上漲了我是做這樣的一個基本上所以我的意思就是應該對我們CPI不會有影響所以總裁認為豬肉價格是先漲後跌嗎還是怎麼樣所以我昨天我沒有討論到這個問題昨天討論的情況"},{"start":7803.004,"end":7818.055,"text":"但是我們的意思就是說對CPI會不會影響我們同事說應該是不會後來我也是這麼想如果說你的需求沒有的話價格大概漲不上去只是供給量沒有要看影響的時間"},{"start":7819.507,"end":7827.913,"text":"對啦 對啦 這個我們會持續來關注現在也沒辦法來做那你說短時間對CPI沒有影響就對了對對對 我們應該就說今年應該是不會啦這樣子 好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝主席好 謝謝李坤城委員接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":7852.561,"end":7858.692,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進列席的政務機關長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":7865.249,"end":7878.244,"text":"總委很早總裁好今天我的詢問的主題都是打問號但是我先請教一個問題剛剛大家在關心我們新的超券對不對你說是面額都維持原來的面額是嗎對啦100 200 500 1000 2000是"},{"start":7882.529,"end":7911.528,"text":"預計那有沒有考慮過有更高的面額因為你剛剛在回答兩百元的時候有說這兩百元可以節省皮夾空間兩張一張抵兩張那既然可以發行兩千有沒有可能考慮發行一萬不會普發先進一萬領一張就好啦因為那個流通量會更少流通量會更好那我們問一下那你參考其他國家你知道嗎美國聯邦他曾經發行的最高面額的美鈔是什麼面額嗎"},{"start":7913.101,"end":7935.486,"text":"这个我忘了他们在1865年第25任的财政部长发行了1万面额的美钞到后来到1934年还发行了10万面额的金币券你觉得这个有可能用吗这是用在哪里为什么美国要发行这么大面额的美钞它是在财政部跟央行之间交付而已"},{"start":7937.386,"end":7964.64,"text":"沒有 我們沒關係 我直接告訴你答案這個跟我們今天討論的紙鈔沒有關聯這是它是政府跟銀行之間的一個交換使用好 那現在我們回到這裡來了那麼有人在說總裁你好像在拍馬屁說要把12強冠軍的印象紙鈔你認為當年我們在1998年發行的這個少棒冠軍的這個鈔票之後你有在央行嗎"},{"start":7965.606,"end":7966.92,"text":"1998"},{"start":7967.389,"end":7995.899,"text":"你進央行了沒有那時候有人說那時候央行總裁發行這樣的事在拍馬屁嗎沒有還是說少棒冠軍可以上鈔票不算拍馬屁四棒賽十二強就是在拍馬屁有沒有這樣的問題應該沒有沒有所以就大膽的放心的把我們國人的驕傲就算拍馬屁我覺得也是拍我們國人的馬屁應該不會因為棒球是我們國家的光榮對不對是所以盡量去做好 下來我要請教一下"},{"start":7996.559,"end":8017.09,"text":"另外今天比較多聚焦在美國有沒有聽過川普賬戶共和黨提案說新生兒國家就給他100美元然後每年他的父母也可以存進去還可以不用扣稅那到了18歲的時候他就一大筆錢最近我們國內也有要選縣市長的人做這樣的倡議你覺得要達到這種倡議"},{"start":8020.552,"end":8043.708,"text":"有什麼條件我舉例來講他們美國的經濟顧問委員會他說如果1000元每年這樣存到18歲可以領到1萬8如果加上一些投報率可以到30萬那到28歲就109萬哇 這個真好啊這個第一桶金政府幫你存1000美金然後到你的18歲到25歲就成為百萬富翁有這個條件嗎"},{"start":8045.961,"end":8070.468,"text":"我覺得這個議題我沒有很瞭解我覺得就是說你政府要進去的話你要有budget你要有錢除了政府要有錢能不能預期成長是不是兩個因素第一這整個18年或25年利率要維持高檔或者說股市的平均回報率要好都不曉得"},{"start":8070.908,"end":8098.445,"text":"都不曉得如果國內要推的話我們央行可不可以告訴我們的政府說沒問題 家長放心政府準備好Budget投入但是央行讓我們這幾年利率都維持在高檔可以嗎 可以這樣嗎不可能不可能 我們來問一下但是最近FED說要再降息了你認為台灣的股市美股大為激勵FED降息美股大為激勵你覺得台灣的股市的表現跟你央行降不降息有沒有關聯"},{"start":8100.417,"end":8113.782,"text":"好像比較沒有沒有什麼關聯那你認為台灣的股市的表現主要是考量什麼因素我們的台灣的股市說實在的是跟著大部分都是跟著跟著台積電走跟著台積電走台積電這些科技類股也是跟著美國的科技類股"},{"start":8120.285,"end":8140.406,"text":"科技類股所以說如果FIT的降息有可能熱錢通通會被吸回去嗎還是說這些錢會跑到台灣來專利差這個都很難講很難講 沒有一定好往下看所以說如果你剛講的其實高科技是我們的優勢股那麼外資是我台股或者跟FIT是我降息有沒有關聯"},{"start":8142.881,"end":8163.708,"text":"我舉個例 上上週一應該也有也有 但是你看看那個星期一就是國慶日那天川普又宣布要跟中國提高關稅怕美國股市大跌大家預期隔天到10月12號台股開盤的時候會大跌有沒有大跌 台積利有沒有大跌沒有啊"},{"start":8164.048,"end":8176.221,"text":"沒有啊 是散戶啊500萬的零股戶把台積電撐上來耶所以表示這個股市台灣的股市不見得跟著美國的股市走美國的股市雖然跟FIT降息有關但是台灣的股市表現我覺得委員對股票的知識比我還強"},{"start":8182.046,"end":8206.932,"text":"謝謝誇獎但是你也不買股票我也不買股票往下看你講的頭頭是道所以說我要請教一下但現在有一個問題來了外匯存體再度改寫歷史新高多少超過6000億了那怎麼辦現在我們央行的業務報告說你們要怎樣要運用外匯存體的投資運用效益考量到對美元的匯率變動所以你要維持市場的秩序跟進場條件講了半天我們想問的是美國"},{"start":8210.649,"end":8229.378,"text":"FED他未降息 熱錢就跑來台灣了那如果他再降息他會不會造成外資願意加碼台股甚至會影響到匯率有沒有這個可能 央行怎麼因應我剛剛 問了三個問題譬如說九月份的時候美國降息"},{"start":8229.838,"end":8234.281,"text":"大家都會認為就是說美國降息的時候美元會弱但是之後9月以後好像也沒有弱最近它都很強很強對 所以也就是說這個跟台灣的匯率也不會有影響這個猜測好像也是不大對也不大所以不會影響到匯率所以我覺得外資所以這個就是也是我們困擾的地方就是說外資的行為說實在是很難去捉摸的好"},{"start":8257.239,"end":8265.917,"text":"是很難去捉摸的那這樣的話那是我們另外一個關鍵的議題了那這樣的話可是呢又有委員在院會的時候問院長 卓院長說跟美國的關稅談判會不會討論到匯率"},{"start":8268.332,"end":8291.698,"text":"跟他的關稅談判好像沒有談到沒有涉及到匯率可是我們看到了你的報告說說本年上半年本場進場累計買匯會不會被美國列為你在操作匯率啊沒有啊不會沒有不會確定不會我覺得不會啊你覺得不會還是美國覺得不會還是川普覺得不會如果按照他的三項標準的話"},{"start":8292.398,"end":8312.228,"text":"我們絕對不會好但是我們有一個問題是國內比較關心的往下看其實台灣的壽險業常常有必別錯配的問題所以我們在國內的資金成本取得高保單的費率高國內的利率低是要進行海外投資對不對這是目前我國壽險的普遍困境所以他都要換匯"},{"start":8314.209,"end":8334.062,"text":"換匯他還要去每年投入很多避險成本購買避險的商品他有獲利還要買外匯的準備金最近金管會跟售險要到討論說外匯準備金的制度調整要怎麼看然後他每年投入那麼多的避險成本那還要去買購買避險商品總裁你了解這是我們目前售險業的處境吧"},{"start":8335.118,"end":8352.279,"text":"我基本上我知道你了解嘛好那現在有個問題來了現在呢昨天我們看到了這個金管會的主委彭主委拍了一個什麼亞資中心的投資論壇有沒有看到新聞報導有看到嗎你知不支持我們卓院長推動的亞資中心"},{"start":8352.939,"end":8378.062,"text":"当然支持那你也支持我们的兆元投资国家发展方案我也支持好 那我们来看一下我们这个兆元国家投资方案跟亚投资产管理中心就想说必须要我们的金融商品我们的金融业者有一个金融商品这个金融商品透过台币在工建长照还有永续产业用外币的表现放到这里来然后我们有需要外币"},{"start":8378.942,"end":8401.273,"text":"進來投資是不是這樣子那外資進來他是用美元進來啊那他有匯率的風險啊那是不是他也要購買這些避險的商品會購買避險的商品那央行有沒有開放這些匯率的避險商品有啊當然有啊說來聽聽他說將涉外匯業務將槍央行意見我們看一下"},{"start":8402.613,"end":8423.448,"text":"這個銀行進駐地方資產管理專區的事辦業務這金王會說的他從今年的1月4月5月到7月他這裡面講了這麼多事情但是業者只要問到說社外的會業社外會業務將洽央行意見辦理我之前也問了金王會主委這些外資進來需要"},{"start":8424.728,"end":8429.751,"text":"匯率的避險商品央行有沒有同意開放可以啊事實上我跟委員報告這個就是說彭主委他非常積極的來就是說來發展當然支持所以他涉及到外匯的我總覺得"},{"start":8443.318,"end":8453.869,"text":"彭主委他都會而且他很謙虛他都會帶隊來我們中央銀行跟事實上我們也去到他那邊彼此互相來討論怎麼樣來講他提出的訴求中央銀行都會配合是這樣喔確定喔確定"},{"start":8462.718,"end":8477.879,"text":"確定因為我看你們央行跟今晚會的表達對於匯率的避險商品的作為你們比較保守一點他們期待比較開放一點我想是這樣 委員你也不要就是說保守就是拒絕"},{"start":8478.92,"end":8496.151,"text":"不是保守的意思就是說我開放但是會在安全的情況之下我去跟我女朋友求婚在她沒答應之前她都是保守如果說我開放然後是非常有危險的時候你覺得中央銀行會開放嗎就是說在還沒答應之前都不是拒絕都是保守"},{"start":8497.712,"end":8514.87,"text":"不是 我們來是open的是open的好 那我會請主席再看所以說這個事情我要拜託下次彭主委為了亞資中心還有社外的外匯業務跟你求婚的時候你不要"},{"start":8515.911,"end":8537.957,"text":"不拒絕你要開放但是你要點頭好不好我們請央行研議亞洲資產管理中心開放匯率避險商品好不好以有效吸引境外資金來台投資的可行性一個月提出來點頭不算白紙黑字我拿去問彭主委這樣才表示你是開放跟支持的好不好謝謝謝謝鍾嘉賓委員"},{"start":8545.221,"end":8547.362,"text":"接下來請黃珊珊委員質詢謝謝主席 我請楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":8566.896,"end":8590.917,"text":"黃委員早是 總裁早我想今天大家都還是很關心所謂台幣改版的事但我想先問一個事內政部的警政署165的打詐儀表板它其實有統計打詐的狀況還是很嚴重今年的財損已經達到700多億投資詐騙是第一名那打詐儀表板裡面非常多很有趣的事情就是"},{"start":8592.421,"end":8618.821,"text":"诈骗集团滥用民众对于中央银行的信任所以假装是央行的外汇专员是吗而且具名蔡炯明进行金融诈骗到上个礼拜还是发生所以这个应该是外汇局长是吗是然后但是你们在112年11月有发布澄清新闻稿是到上个礼拜还有这样的案子这个外汇局长要不要出来在现场"},{"start":8620.002,"end":8631.794,"text":"馬上立刻再說明一次因為央行從來沒有說過我們因為在打仗的方面好像沒有看到央行什麼角色蔡局長你要不要澄清一下是…好"},{"start":8634.138,"end":8643.421,"text":"委員好事實上我們央行都有對外有做這樣的一個澄清在去年發生的時候就有澄清過上個禮拜還有你上個禮拜又詐騙人你知道嗎我們持續都還是會再做這樣的一個澄清因為大概都會打電話到我們這邊來"},{"start":8651.583,"end":8676.069,"text":"我們這邊相關的同仁都會跟他們做一些解釋事實上我們外匯很多人大部分都說那個資金沒辦法進來是在我們央行這邊的管理等等的事實上我們都會跟他解釋被央行控管了所以錢沒辦法動什麼的都有解釋去年也都有發過新聞稿做一些國外匯款沒有辦法匯款是因為外匯局無法放行然後就騙他"},{"start":8677.39,"end":8692.988,"text":"通常是來自這個地方總裁表示大家很相信中央銀行所以被冒名不是你們的錯央行要不斷的澄清是 好第二個是現在打仗從打仗的指揮中心看起來"},{"start":8693.809,"end":8719.301,"text":"央行好像沒有在這個相關的系統裡面有什麼角色對不對對 基本上是沒有你們都有協助但是大家相信中央銀行所以你在打詐的上面可能還要再加把勁就是說在我央行的不管是官網或相關的打詐的上面我覺得央行要強調我們不會跟你控制你的外匯有沒有匯出去都跟央行沒有關係那都是銀行端的事好不好我想這個"},{"start":8722.602,"end":8746.187,"text":"總裁幫局長澄清比較有用好 我們外局來做這件事情就是我們央行沒有人在詐騙尤其姓蔡的更沒有詐騙好 那局長請回我想接下來就是今天大家最關心的就是看到您的報告說要改版新台幣其實我在一上任的時候我就已經質詢過您我還記得很清楚"},{"start":8746.687,"end":8771.715,"text":"那時候是很多的攤販來陳情說500元的假鈔很多50塊的假幣很多當時我質詢的時候還問過您說有沒有改版計畫有沒有評估過改版成本您當時回覆跟我說新台幣使用狀況良好幣性良好 偽鈔率很低所以沒有改版計畫一年後的現在突然間有改版計畫這是為什麼"},{"start":8773.555,"end":8799.888,"text":"因為一年前你回答我的我問的時候你非常斬釘截鐵我們的在性良好 避性良好使用狀況良好 偽差率超低那現在有改變嗎我跟委員報告就剛剛也有一個委員就說我在前一年的時候說我們改版我問的時候就被你打回腔所以我就說也許我也忘了"},{"start":8801.008,"end":8805.292,"text":"第二個可能就是說我沒有很能夠掌握我們自己的狀況事實上最近我們在要講改版的時候所以沒有 我現在要確定沒有偽鈔率增加 沒有必信"},{"start":8816.983,"end":8832.47,"text":"不佳的狀況 對吧就說偽鈔率應該也算是還是不是很高偽鈔還是很低畢竟也很良好第二個我們現在在大量的推展電子支付所以我們現在改版的重要性跟急迫性到底是什麼"},{"start":8833.19,"end":8849.568,"text":"是 不過就是說你有偽鈔的急迫性還是你有病情不好的急迫性我們這邊列出來很多國家它也是改版它的那個微鈔率也是很低的所以微鈔率低也不是說你改版的必要條件好"},{"start":8850.89,"end":8864.971,"text":"所以那以后就不要回我那种公文了好不好重点是刚刚今天听总裁讲话有趣就是我想说那五百元要改版到底是因为梅花路还是因为赖总统"},{"start":8866.496,"end":8872.519,"text":"不 我們改版就是說據我們有一個兩場管理委員會事實上我同仁告訴我我們106年就是那個時候就開始在規劃了所以我說剛剛那個委員在講這個我要做這樣的回答我現在回收我當時的回答你回收你剛剛的話你回收你之前寫的公文因為畢竟我那時候的回答是不對的是不對的"},{"start":8896.089,"end":8907.416,"text":"現在我要講另外一個就是2000塊 200塊的確是使用率流通率很低所以你改版還要繼續發行嗎所以我們說預計這五張但是我們有關要去討論一下因為它的使用率真的很低我們會把這個建議我們會類作參考"},{"start":8914.92,"end":8930.137,"text":"現在的問題是在於現在各國日本其實也一千塊、五千塊、一萬塊已經做改版二十年之後做貨幣更新它最大的問題其實不是這個因為日本有非常多的是所謂的點餐機"},{"start":8931.719,"end":8951.636,"text":"點鈔機ATM還有所謂的停車費其實你知道改版最需要的是做這方面的民間的配合跟跟進你就是說這些不是只有只有你央行一個人掌了算因為大家都要全世界都要跟著你變所以這件事情在日本"},{"start":8952.456,"end":8974.301,"text":"兩年前就已經做好規劃產業就要開始跟著走包括尺寸 包括相關的它們的這些設備在你發行之後 它可以立刻跟得上這才是接下來去改版最隱形的成本是…委員講得沒有錯所以總裁你大概預計花多少錢總共"},{"start":8983.324,"end":9000.831,"text":"你去年回答我大概要500億所以你覺得太貴了所以你不要改沒有你500億那個是沒有500億是主要的就是說它大部分的成本是因為是銅板的改版銅板的成本比較高現在我們銅板因為它是小零頭而且慢慢會退出"},{"start":9001.611,"end":9007.614,"text":"所以我們這一次是不會有所以不用到五百億那要幾百億對不會五百億就只有那個鈔券而已剛剛委員在講的這個就是說調整的就是那個販賣機什麼的跟著民間一起協調這些我們也有初步的一個估算好像是十億"},{"start":9025.402,"end":9043.225,"text":"16億Total 16億 分幾年邊這個是社會成本對 社會成本16億那你自己的央行的成本呢就是不用不用我們央行的成本就是我們每一張會增加1.51.5所以你要看你發多少好 這樣會影響到你央行的預算還有繳庫的金額嗎應該不會不會就是你不會少錢繳庫不會減少"},{"start":9053.887,"end":9079.016,"text":"應該是不會啦就是你可以控制到控制到變成是你基本的成本而已是啦 應該是啦我覺得啦 這次兩千塊兩百塊我覺得你要慎重考慮五百塊要怎麼換大家都可以表示意見但是我覺得以後講話就不要這麼斬釘截鐵而且大家在反映說其實五十塊的硬幣很多假幣這種狀況還是要注意跟檢討"},{"start":9082.358,"end":9098.753,"text":"我覺得這個還是很重要改版是大事而且每一個民眾都會受影響第二個他跟我們推動電子支付的政策其實有一點小衝突我們到底是要往電子支付大幅提升還是"},{"start":9099.494,"end":9115.019,"text":"還要繼續用紙鈔這個可能是一個社會的選擇所以我們現在出國大概基本上像我去一趟美國 去一趟日本我大概沒有用過紙鈔所以總裁你覺得接下去的紙鈔使用量還會增加嗎"},{"start":9116.863,"end":9133.649,"text":"我想就是說現今它還是可預見的相來它還是電子支付還是沒辦法替代它的沒辦法替代 但是不需要到你原來預估的那個量所以也就是說它的發行量可能會越來越少"},{"start":9134.509,"end":9161.391,"text":"我們改版的成本就會越來越少而且政府也是大力推動電子支付而且現在連LiPay都上網連民眾之間的轉帳用LiPay不用手續費它其實使用率非常的高連我們朋友吃飯大家都用LiPay互相傳來傳去我的意思是說你在發行量的時候可能要有個具體的評估而且要讓立法院這邊也都能夠有參與的意見的機會因為我們每天都在接受不管是一般的攤販也好"},{"start":9162.392,"end":9185.421,"text":"相關的民間他們其實對於這些都非常有意見接下來最後一個小問題就希望說總裁我們有關新清安的部分目前現在房地產市場的變化你有辦法直接告訴我現在你的控制方式你接下來會有什麼樣的新的做法"},{"start":9186.761,"end":9195.784,"text":"你是說房市房市我們現在還是滾動式的檢討所以沒有因為你的這一波大家這邊詭教說爛尾樓建商倒閉狀況嚴重嗎我們密切注意市場的發展滾動式的檢討就是這樣"},{"start":9203.167,"end":9226.356,"text":"對 所以這些有發生嗎就是爛尾樓 我想說爛尾樓我們也有密切去注意他事實上他的個案所以他目前還沒有影響太大也沒有很嚴重的影響銀行的債券 對吧是 應該是所以目前為止不會做任何的調整在你的第七波信用管制應該我們繼續滾動式檢討繼續控制好 謝謝好 謝謝黃珊珊委員接下來請王世堅委員質詢"},{"start":9246.488,"end":9247.252,"text":"謝謝主席 我請楊總裁"},{"start":9254.79,"end":9283.017,"text":"好 汪委員早總裁 辛苦了謝謝 謝謝您鼓勵您對這個房市管控的這個部分還有在這個買賣外匯的這一個部分這一部分的堅持我是非常肯定謝謝 謝謝委員鼓勵還有支持必須頂住很多壓力那我認為最重要第一點我們就是"},{"start":9284.157,"end":9309.744,"text":"關於我們國家的匯率匯匯這一個部分因為我們國家GDP62%是出口所以我們是以出口為導向的國家所以央行要來顧及我們國家匯率的穩定這是應當的所以我也多次講我說其實我們政府應該默許央行有這兩大權利"},{"start":9311.684,"end":9330.284,"text":"第一個權利就是不說實話的權利啦這個部分第二個操作外匯的這個權利這個我們不可否的我們台灣我們"},{"start":9332.336,"end":9358.136,"text":"是小國寡民就比起歐美日他們這些大國而言那我們當然要互助我們的外匯所以這一點我是一再的堅持說一定要這麼做你看這次台幣升值的結果我們國內有那麼多的行業已經開始無薪假了他們只是因為匯率還沒有計算到"},{"start":9360.038,"end":9385.249,"text":"20%的關稅還有疊加上去的那個都不算光匯率這一波就已經讓他們幾乎沒辦法存活像手工機械業像五星類他們就是這樣所以這個部分我希望央行能夠堅持當然美國那邊的控制的我覺得這三點你比我更清楚你是內行你專業"},{"start":9386.769,"end":9403.018,"text":"這三點裡面我一再講我認為貿易順差超過200億這個沒話講我們隨便也都會超過說經常順差超過GDP3%這個我們也不敢太確定說是不是會超過這兩點"},{"start":9405.279,"end":9427.636,"text":"我們比較沒話講但是單向外匯年淨買值說要超過GDP百分之二要超過160億美金因為我們不是一天到晚在買匯我們也會有賣的時候你就要帶領央行去調節有時候買有時候賣但是保持它的穩定這一點"},{"start":9428.977,"end":9449.848,"text":"是他們永遠拿我們沒辦法的地方所以很多事情我們跟我們最大貿易往來國家大家心照不宣所以我希望你能夠頂住這個壓力繼續往對於匯率的穩定操控這個部分還是要堅持下去好不好"},{"start":9451.73,"end":9469.689,"text":"那其次就是關於對房市房市這一個部分的壓力也蠻大的因為不可否認現在在此反對聲浪的那背後的鼓譟者很多啊會影響到他們的比方說建商"},{"start":9470.851,"end":9497.241,"text":"比方說房屋仲介公司比方說投資戶那這些人他們當然有他們的權益可是如果是來炒作的比方說有一些自己體質就不良的建設公司比方說有一些這個過分大膽的這些投資戶那房價這十年來漲幅這麼大"},{"start":9499.505,"end":9513.824,"text":"也是因為這些人所導致的因素占非常大的一個因素那這些人他們在媒體上面聲量很大因為他們常年有那麼龐大的廣告量"},{"start":9514.745,"end":9531.209,"text":"所以相對就會有他們製造的一些新聞那這會給我們政府壓力那政府的壓力當然就會轉嫁來請央行說是不是這個部分應該放鬆那我認為不應該我還是認為我們對於房市控管說不動產貸款"},{"start":9541.199,"end":9555.788,"text":"資金絕對不能超過當時存款總額的30%三成我認為這個底線一定要守住當然現在行政院有放寬說那這30%的這個設限"},{"start":9560.552,"end":9580.752,"text":"對新清安不計算不記錄那不記錄以後光上個月一個月就240億之多所以我還是認為對於新清安不設限來講但是要嚴審這些新清安是不是真正的有需要的新清安或者是人家"},{"start":9581.553,"end":9592.825,"text":"不管建商 仲介 炒作者他們去找出來的人頭那這個我認為是不是應該督促各銀行他們應該嚴審 你看法呢是 沒有錯委員的"},{"start":9599.722,"end":9611.007,"text":"對於房市的我們的信任管制一直以來都給我們很大的支持那這個真的是我又一直就說要站得住腳站得住腳也是要我們委員來協助我們來支持我們我們才站得更穩這個部分我真的非常謝謝委員這樣的一個做法"},{"start":9624.853,"end":9643.043,"text":"所以總裁能不能頂住這個壓力因為現在動不動就會有這個聲浪跑出來沒有錯所以要頂住這個壓力而且要遂之以理就是當行政院內部在討論的時候你要把這一番道理說出來"},{"start":9645.225,"end":9665.727,"text":"過去你像十幾年前16、17年前美國也發生過那麼大的風暴造成金融風暴它造成的風暴已經造成世界級的也是導於你對不動產開始的那些刺激房貸所以這個底線一定要守住好不好你看我們這一次你強硬的"},{"start":9667.929,"end":9684.044,"text":"這三年來緊縮的政策你看緊縮這三年以來我們房屋我就在講我們台灣的淡黃區台北新北就好跌幅不到2%你看那麼強硬之下"},{"start":9685.285,"end":9704.576,"text":"房屋跌幅也不到2%等於微跌但是整個價值來看我們相比2020年當時的指數只有97.85%現在即便下跌到這個程度房價指數還是高達150.38%150"},{"start":9712.451,"end":9731.461,"text":"這五年來等於漲了一半所以這是不可思議的事情我們也可以引國外韓國也有很好的例子韓國他們打得比我們更嚴重他們不但全面緊縮他們房價六億元的房價"},{"start":9733.383,"end":9741.136,"text":"貸款總額的上限他們訂了這個絕對不動而且他們打擊外國的投資客他們針對熱區他們還把貸款層數下降"},{"start":9746.266,"end":9771.592,"text":"還有他們針對超過25億韓元1比50差就5000萬的豪宅他們就限貸就限制他們的貸款不打緊喔他們兩戶以上你如果貸款兩戶以上全面禁止我們還沒有喔我們只有把乘數下降我們沒有限制戶數然後他們法人貸款"},{"start":9774.002,"end":9802.822,"text":"對我們台灣人法人貸款我們還給他三成韓國是全面禁止一毛也不借他這些都正確的事情所以他們打房的政策比我們更嚴格而且執行上更徹底所以這樣子的情況下韓國政府也是撐住了啊也是撐住了所以我希望這個部分你一定要一定要堅持還有"},{"start":9803.735,"end":9819.533,"text":"我們國家貸款總額沒有上限對於不動產貸款總額但是韓國他也限制貸款總額他房貸貸款總額他設限六億韓元六億韓元而已"},{"start":9820.981,"end":9849.451,"text":"如果你一比45來看才1300萬台幣所以他們是做的這麼徹底那這樣子的情況就是為了所有全國普遍大家都能夠有合理的價格舒適的房子來居住這才是正確的所以我希望你能夠挺下去在這一波打房的政策上面因為只有你"},{"start":9850.431,"end":9868.138,"text":"只有中央銀行有辦法堅持住你堅持住啦其他銀行才能守住好不好是謝謝委員的支持謝謝委員的鼓勵謝謝好我們謝謝王世堅委員接下來請陳玉珍委員質詢謝謝主席我們請這個楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":9880.888,"end":9905.07,"text":"等一下財經公司 董事長等一下下一題陳委員 這個總裁去年9月19金融海嘯然後楊金榮海嘯今年9月18的我們央行的理監事會你們的打房重點是維持第7波的選擇性信用管制到今年第4季要做總檢討"},{"start":9906.431,"end":9933.509,"text":"那你覺得從去年到現在你去年我們在這邊諮詢的時候你在這邊背詢說希望今年中今年房價可以慢慢向下調整你覺得現在國內的房價發展有沒有符合你當初說的慢慢向下調整到目前為止對啦是有慢慢剛剛那個委員才在講有啦但是就是說不夠大不夠對不對他認為是不夠大不夠嘛本來其實已經在僵持了我看這個買方賣方已經在僵持但是"},{"start":9934.289,"end":9956.289,"text":"前一陣子是上個月吧這個新清安的整個不算入這個裡頭以後整個整大一部分又灌進來所以事實上要給年輕人買得起房子不是一直給他貸款如果房價可以便宜一點的話可以好一點低一點的話年輕人可能更容易買得起房子我想請教您"},{"start":9957.19,"end":9982.27,"text":"您這個停止信用管制的指標你說我們一直在講說全部的銀行不動產貸款佔總放款的比例太高就是貸款集中度太高現在的貸款集中度現在是36.71到8月份然後你在當時你們啟動第一波的時候那時候2020年12月的時候12月8號的時候那時候的不動產貸款集中度是35.9"},{"start":9984.051,"end":10004.161,"text":"所以你的這個標準是在哪裡到時候你的停止信用管制的指標會在哪個階段呢我跟委員報告這個集中度是一個很重要的觀察指標但是中央銀行不是只有觀察它而已我們還有觀察到其他的一些的指標包括我們的不動產的信用"},{"start":10013.647,"end":10028.76,"text":"對 指示也是 很多指示整個房價的趨勢 很多 我理解但是如果大家以前以為的天條我們行政院動不動就把天條再加例外…天條就不會變成是天條 房地產業在說所以政府一邊在採油門另外一邊在採…"},{"start":10040.65,"end":10057.561,"text":"一邊在踩煞車另外一邊踩油門這台車可能會壞掉我看這個很嚴重政府的部門的行政的好像腳步不太一樣我想請教您當然我很佩服您堅持這個勇氣也是跟你支持但是您有說過"},{"start":10059.562,"end":10074.438,"text":"房地產產業是不是為驅動經濟成長之主力以營建工程業 浦東產產對經濟貢獻以及收購員工比例低的這個因素這個央行給我們的參考資料說否定這一題就是說房地產不是火車頭"},{"start":10075.819,"end":10089.924,"text":"你們有給我們資料我想告訴你在2020年的時候那時候的內政部長叫做徐國勇現在的執政黨的秘書長他說不動產是真正的火車頭這是他說法 媒體有報導房地產業是護國群山真正的火車頭因為帶動了上下游各個行業包括各個產業的發展"},{"start":10103.31,"end":10108.253,"text":"你的言論跟現在執政黨秘書長不大一樣你會不會感受到執政黨的壓力不會 不會嗎你能撐得住嗎不 我們只是就數據我們來顯現它對我們GDP的一個貢獻因為像我們看到你們一樣所以你在第四季總結到的時候會不會選擇放寬選擇性信用管制以現在的情形"},{"start":10128.268,"end":10132.392,"text":"我們會繼續的滾動式的檢討但是呢我目前我也很難去跟委員說到今天為止的情形是到今天為止的情形到目前為止的話來看的話因為跟我們9月的跟我們9月我們的禮監事的時間還很短"},{"start":10149.571,"end":10175.51,"text":"這間中間所以還不會到目前為止以後還有兩個月不知道但是到目前為止還不會選擇性放寬但是你這樣站得很穩希望這個房價有所鬆動當然現在房地產業也都是這樣看但在這之前在行政院提出這個新清安的那件事情把你天條給它解禁以後事實上整個又起了很大的變化不然本來我們覺得鬆動鬆動可能有可能往下了比較恢復一點正常"},{"start":10176.391,"end":10199.732,"text":"不只年輕人 各個年齡層的人擁有還有剛性虛擁痛比較可以慢慢負擔得起當然也還是太高但是慢慢負擔但是我看你的你雖然這麼堅持但是我看行政院如果一直在走不同的路你在煞車行政院一直在加油的話我看這個也是很艱辛您這個當然您是獨立但是獨立這個也是很艱辛希望您還是維持一樣有骨氣我們跟你支持"},{"start":10201.073,"end":10226.198,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝總裁我們想請教財經公司高鐵的話緊急停用台灣Pay的部分您是台灣Pay你們公司是台灣Pay的開發運營者對吧跟委員報告我們沒有自己參與最前面的QR Code的共通支付標準你們弄了一個平台銀行 電子產業 商業 商家都可以做電子支付平台你知道為什麼高鐵緊急停用台灣Pay嗎"},{"start":10227.058,"end":10239.231,"text":"跟委員報告就是高鐵是因為他這個購票用台灣Pay購票之後有被詐騙利用然後去退現金因為你在購票上面顯示是現金啊票捐上面顯示現金嘛所以去退票的時候就退了現金嘛"},{"start":10242.774,"end":10266.305,"text":"結果被詐騙級 我們詐騙局員都這詐騙局員都時代很進步他們都跟著很多這個發展這個很多人都不知道上面可以用這個方法詐騙局員時時在關注任何可能的詐騙漏洞詐騙局員就用這個東西因為這樣退票的時候領先不用驗證個資就變成他們鑽漏洞台灣詐騙這麼猖獗實在是詐騙局員也花了很多心力在這個看怎麼來鑽漏洞但是我們身為政府的公司"},{"start":10267.646,"end":10284.748,"text":"財經公司身為政府的公司事實上在設計前面的這些整個過程或是整個過程的時候事實上也應該要非常的小心尤其你們是代表政府跟委員報告就是我們的機制上面來看那這些高鐵他們所以不是你們的問題是高鐵的問題就對了"},{"start":10286.069,"end":10292.971,"text":"因為就是機制上面匯款要對到原帳戶你告訴我財經公司沒有問題這個漏洞是高鐵的問題因為印出來是高鐵印的票是機制上面財經電腦是沒有問題是財經公司設計上的問題還是高鐵印製的問題因為他印出現金讓他可以現金然後高鐵就用現金給人家退以這個個案來看是高鐵不是個案 整個案子"},{"start":10307.195,"end":10316.275,"text":"因為台灣變成洗錢的管道高鐵這個事情來看是高鐵公司跟收單銀行合作產生的問題所以是那家銀行的問題還是高鐵的問題是合作銀行的問題嗎"},{"start":10317.342,"end":10344.789,"text":"因為這個合作銀行就是這個售單銀行要跟高鐵去協商他怎麼去印製這些東西所以是售單銀行那是哪一家售單銀行這個高鐵的售單目前是台新銀行台新銀行 OK好 那沒關係這個東西我們會跟金管會再繼續請教你的意思是財經公司沒有問題就對了在機制上沒有問題規定上也是要退到原帳戶你們要非常的注意尤其你們是國家的就是一定要注意你們不能"},{"start":10346.309,"end":10366.465,"text":"不停止詐騙還那個變成你們理論上你們是要讓詐騙很多洞都讓詐騙團不能猖獗因為詐騙太猖獗已經變成一個很大的產業了你們還讓詐騙團有洞可以鑽那高鐵當然如果照你這樣講高鐵我也會去問他們高鐵當然負很大的責任那當然相對應的銀行我們也會跟金管會相關單位來請他們來檢討來講一下下一題數位券的問題"},{"start":10372.065,"end":10400.983,"text":"那你高鐵的問題是你說的嘛來 我相信你啦好 數位券的問題你沒有在中央銀行指導下做一個數位公共建設的金流平台數位券嘛這個相當好啦把所有的民眾習慣APP什麼這些都整合在一起變成一個多營的這個生態體系我覺得這個也是非常支持那這個東西又借街的速發布的這個政府機關公用平台嘛那因為台灣的這個數位支付這個東西實在是比較慢大家如果有去過中國大陸我知道大陸真的是很"},{"start":10401.483,"end":10426.845,"text":"很快很進步各方面都尤其在數位這個發展的部分那沒關係我們進步不然沒關係但是我們至少不要有一些容易被詐騙或中間的這個很多漏洞甚至怎麼樣鼓勵大家可以這樣使用電子支付也比較符合這個資源的這個比較不浪費資源那想請教你這個整合完成這個縣市政府如果有自行發行的這個數位券你是不是可以順利也可以讓各縣市政府借到你們這個平台上"},{"start":10427.629,"end":10452.35,"text":"跟委員報告這個平台是可以支援這種服務的可以嗎好那我跟你說一下我們金門縣政府115年明年開始會發一個感恩券這個感恩券以前是我們發那個酒感恩量酒那現在為了促進這個地區的消費促進做一個新循環的經濟那把要發給老百姓的一些福利原來的現金給付的福利變成本來是慰助酒品感恩量變成明年春節開始變成發券"},{"start":10454.111,"end":10476.829,"text":"券紙張紙張一張一張的等於是消費券那種券我們叫感恩券那這個感恩券現在是紙本那未來是不是可以用數位券的方式我們數位券的方式因為這樣可以配合比如我們有一些商家做電子支付做這個電子的線上的這個購物然後這個我們有一些鄉親可能在台灣地區居住不是在金門在台灣那也可以用數位的這個"},{"start":10477.949,"end":10493.456,"text":"這個券的方式在上電子網去購買電商我們金門的相關商因為我們目的是要促進金門的這個經濟發展那這部分我們財經公司是不是可以來協助我們金門縣主來規劃來借鑑委員報告是可以喔好 那來聯絡我一下好 謝謝您謝謝好 謝謝陳一貞委員 謝謝接下來請岳元之委員質詢"},{"start":10513.468,"end":10516.41,"text":"主席好 麻煩請總裁好 請楊總裁葉委員早總裁你好我是想跟您反映有關於現代令的問題當然剛剛現代令政府的政策要打房這些我都沒有意見當然醫治房價那些政府有做法但是想跟你反映幾個狀況第一個狀況是換屋主"},{"start":10540.963,"end":10563.005,"text":"我們那邊有一個民眾他是想要換屋然後換屋的原因是因為他本來一個小孩也大了然後想要再生一個然後原來的房子不夠住了就想要換那因為要買第二間貸款就只能貸五成然後銀行當然可以簽個切結書就是說假設你第一間在一年半"},{"start":10563.846,"end":10592.995,"text":"之內賣掉的話你可以貸八成但是如果沒有賣掉的話就要追回但是因為一般銀行就覺得麻煩想說還要去追很麻煩所以他現在就不容易貸款現在就只有兩種做法一種做法就是把第一間賣掉然後去租房子然後想辦法再買第二間然後第二個就是再以拖代變反正小孩就先不生看看政府的政策有沒有改變來解決他的"},{"start":10594.065,"end":10610.627,"text":"目前遇到困境我覺得這個因為現在有國安問題如果遇到有年輕人他想生小孩想要換屋但是在換屋這一塊又遇到一些貸款的問題讓他減少生小孩的意願我不知道"},{"start":10611.688,"end":10626.085,"text":"總裁這邊有什麼看法或一些配套措施嗎我跟委員報告如果說你的這個鄰居他面臨的這個問題不是我鄰居 是那個民眾民眾的反應好 沒關係就是說那個民眾可以"},{"start":10631.61,"end":10651.167,"text":"来跟我们的业务局我们有申诉的管道我们有15线他来跟我们申诉他跟哪一家银行因为他符合这个资格这个银行又说他没有符合这个资格有些时候双照之间就必须要有些时候是要对质了"},{"start":10652.288,"end":10656.131,"text":"也不一定就說他講的就對跟你反映一下你這個是政策跟現實的落差您最好可以去了解一下我們了解這個案子你可以去了解因為實際上他就是遇到這個困難您的意思是說銀行不能拒絕貸款只要能夠簽這一年半就一定要貸您的想法是這樣嗎否則申訴等一下我們先理清問題不然會吵不完您的意思是說"},{"start":10679.006,"end":10700.397,"text":"他就是可以來檢舉他可以來申訴申訴銀行會有問題但是實際上實務上就不是這樣所以因為今天我們就是反映這個意見給你你去了解一下看這個狀況多不多銀行遇到我剛剛講的狀況的時候是不是會很樂意的貸款還是說會找很多理由您可以去了解一下這是第一件事情第二件事情因為我們現在賴政府"},{"start":10704.659,"end":10730.368,"text":"也在推自主都更我看卓鴻泰院長的講法是說自主都更比較好因為他可以避免被建商扣掉行政成本容積的部分地主可以換得比較多可是卓院長他提出來的方案是希望這些地主去找一個建金公司然後說建金公司後面會有金融支持然後也可以協助建築營建這一塊不是一樣的意思"},{"start":10731.277,"end":10748.654,"text":"你現在只是把那些行政成本從建商轉移到建金公司那地主並沒有換你比較多還是一樣要付行政成本那自主都更是有一個啦就是如果說地主成立自主更新會自主更新會的話當然"},{"start":10749.915,"end":10778.333,"text":"他們的地主自己籌一個會然後去找銀行貸款然後再找建商來蓋的話當然行政成本就會比較低但問題是自主更新會又會遇到一個問題銀行也不太會願意貸給自主更新會為什麼因為建商就是一個銀行跟他簽約簡單如果100個地主 更多200個地主銀行怎麼會願意去跟那麼多人簽所以這個部分我覺得你要給卓議員長建議"},{"start":10780.174,"end":10791.803,"text":"他如果要推自主都更當然很好因為現在我們那個危老很多全台灣幾十萬三十年以上屋齡的老房子要推當然是要做可是在貸款這塊會遇到問題沒有錯總裁怎麼看"},{"start":10794.625,"end":10796.486,"text":"是 沒有錯 事實上內政部據我了解內政部他也要來修好像是他也有一個獎勵的有一個措施要來promote自主度工他也來跟我們中央銀行接洽過我們也做了一些的建立給他"},{"start":10820.535,"end":10822.936,"text":"所以我是覺得剛剛你建議給他你沒有跟我講所以我也不知道你建議他什麼我剛剛講的問題會不會發生那你要怎麼解決"},{"start":10833.935,"end":10861.97,"text":"當然 這個應該是內政部的事情銀行貸款 銀行會願意去跟譬如地主很多自主更新會這一塊對 他好像他也有一些的優惠要怎麼優惠來一個什麼優惠他有一個中介平台央行也去了解一下 好不好事實上有 前一陣子我們也有跟他那給我書面好不好 書面好啊 可以啊你剛剛什麼細節都沒講"},{"start":10864.151,"end":10885.927,"text":"這個滿detail的啦你書面打封你連大概都沒講還detail這個又不是我們沒關係啦書面主席站起來了總裁就用書面打封什麼時候書面給我什麼時候這detail要用書面打封對書面大概什麼時候一個月啦好不好這個也要一個月喔這個也要一個月兩禮拜好了啦兩個禮拜啦謝謝好 謝謝葉元之委員接下來請謝一鋒委員質詢"},{"start":10906.197,"end":10910.186,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想要請楊總裁好 請楊總裁"},{"start":10918.665,"end":10937.602,"text":"我昨天要來我還特別去查了我不知道你們會做數字早知道我就叫你報告先給我看經濟成長數字你們會做那請問一下我看到了你們預估就是你們對於國內外機構都統計好了今年的數字經濟成長是5%"},{"start":10940.103,"end":10962.371,"text":"明年是2.36%對 我們是平均的 對那你覺得今年就是因為搶單的問題對不對 關稅 美國關稅等等然後一些搶單的問題但是未來當關稅抵定之後明年的"},{"start":10964.072,"end":10985.844,"text":"經濟數字有沒有辦法達到現在你們所預估的就是這樣子的一個2.36的平均值我想就是說我坦白跟委員報告在這一段川普的一個政策裡說實在的不確定性很高"},{"start":10987.06,"end":10998.944,"text":"我所說的不確定性很高的意思是說要做一個很準確的一個預測不大容易不容易所以就是說它的誤差所以它的誤差會很大我舉一個例子給你聽譬如說一開始的時候川普他4月的時候那個時候你看看大家都說經濟會很差大家都是說大概就是3%以下"},{"start":11017.512,"end":11041.993,"text":"是不是因为它的对等关税即便增加了以后有非常多的是豁免以及例外是就不确定性有些时候他又说这样有些时候又这样所以对于台湾或者是对于美国有需要的商品他们就把它列为豁免或者是例外吗"},{"start":11043.333,"end":11064.561,"text":"台湾这一波里面当然有一些是因为抢单有一些是因为美国必须的可是明年呢有我们台湾的其他的财经的部会认为明年的数字绝对比2.36好你认为呢"},{"start":11065.181,"end":11075.027,"text":"比這個2.3還好是不是對啊是有可能也有可能你也覺得有可能是真的我覺得就以前我們都說以為是拉貨效應到下半年的時候不是因為它對AI相關的電子資通訊的產品它的一個熱絡是真的好像是持續的而且"},{"start":11089.535,"end":11109.168,"text":"為什麼很多機構都說明年也不悲觀就因為他認為說不定這個現象都會延續到明年那我問你再請教你那發現金呢發現金我們11月就要發現金了發現金對於明年度整體的經濟成長"},{"start":11110.919,"end":11117.78,"text":"我想發現金發現金對我們的經濟成長是有但是我們的經濟成長不依賴這發一萬塊的現金我是說對於內需內需應該是會有幫助但是我認為不是說我們的經濟成長就要依賴這個不是2023年的時候我們發的6000塊對於經濟成長的"},{"start":11138.755,"end":11163.849,"text":"他有啦 有估計啦 0.15是不是有估計啦 這個估計說多少這個都是參考參考啦所以你不贊成發現金是不是發現金好啊 對每一個人好但是對整體來講的話他的幫助是不是真的是非常高這個有些時候還是不能很確定的啦"},{"start":11164.667,"end":11189.724,"text":"好 我最後一個問題你說了要換新幣是不是未來2.5年未來的兩年內要換新幣在你任期這個任期結束前是不是是啦 應該啦我想請問大家都討論了是我們換新幣的這樣子的成本預估500億是不是沒有"},{"start":11190.484,"end":11192.266,"text":"500億是以前的時候我們說連銅板都一直改版銅板的改版的成本非常高那時候大概預估銅板光是銅板就400多億"},{"start":11208.22,"end":11218.265,"text":"我想要問你的是發行新幣時候我們政府部門對於所有用這個新鈔的人所謂的鑄幣稅"},{"start":11221.021,"end":11236.45,"text":"就是政府不用透過舉債的方式而是透過用硬芯幣來對於我們所有使用這個貨幣的人都收取了一個鑄幣稅"},{"start":11238.832,"end":11247.361,"text":"我跟委員報告事實上我們新台幣的租幣稅很低不高我們不會中央銀行的賺錢很多都強調你說很低那為什麼你不換那個硬幣為什麼不換硬幣那就是因為"},{"start":11259.673,"end":11278.081,"text":"2月10號的時候美國川普總統就說了他說他們再也不鑄造penny就是一分錢的硬幣了為什麼因為一分錢硬幣的成本多過於他們要鑄造一分錢沒有錯所以"},{"start":11280.442,"end":11309.247,"text":"對於硬幣來講是不是你央行住硬幣的成本高過於沒有住幣稅所以你就不要住硬幣了新的硬幣硬幣不住成本的考量這個是第一個第二個電子租戶很多到最後他會把硬幣慢慢的會把它淘汰掉還有雙數字的就是2000元的或200元這個我們會考量"},{"start":11309.987,"end":11337.604,"text":"为什么不做不是说不做我们现在预计是不是因为一般民众在算术上面来讲都是10进位不是20进位的是不是是不是对于这样子技术上面大家算术的应用上面不便利是不是我想这些我们都会考量委员的这些的建议还有你的想法我们都会列入记录"},{"start":11338.683,"end":11367.956,"text":"都會列入紀錄不要藉由硬心操對民眾收取鑄幣稅這個鑄幣稅 我剛才也跟委員報告鑄幣稅說實在是不大對中央銀行來講不是重點好的 謝謝我們謝謝謝一鋒委員總裁請回接下來我們請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在接下來請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在"},{"start":11369.332,"end":11378.439,"text":"我們接著請張家俊委員張家俊委員張家俊委員不在志偉OK了接下來請邱志偉委員質詢"},{"start":11399.711,"end":11427.771,"text":"謝主席有請中央銀行楊總裁請楊總裁邱委員早總裁早是總裁對於這個我覺得從一些民意來看您的相關的政策作為是一般產業對您是非常敬畏非常敬畏對您的一言一行對您所發表任何言論是通常沒辦法匆匆忙忙"},{"start":11429.353,"end":11439.638,"text":"是 戒慎恐懼好 這個我們也要自己檢討我們也自己檢討我這幾天看到一個媒體報導媒體報導就是針對你們對這個等一下我看一下這個不動產跟這個金融投資業對"},{"start":11458.899,"end":11479.598,"text":"他們的對經濟成長貢獻度那當然央行有龐大的這個研究團隊你說這個營造業跟不動產的貢獻度加起來只有0.13 0.07跟0.06%那跟這個組織總數跟中研院做出的包括營建業跟不動產業占GDP的比例"},{"start":11481.018,"end":11501.551,"text":"他加起來超過12%遠超過6.42的金融業那這個生產餘額呢生產的毛額營造業加起來跟不動產業加起來有2.6兆也超過金融業的1.6兆當然他說的他的標題比較比較這個聳動說央行別亂開地圖炮你知道這什麼地圖炮"},{"start":11508.74,"end":11535.53,"text":"媒體的評論 央行不要亂開地圖炮什麼叫地圖炮 就對某個群體進行攻擊對某個群體它有一個特定的立場因為這立場不見得是客觀的那當然相關的工會也會提出相關的數據反駁您對於所謂營造業 營建業跟不動產業對我國經濟的重要性為什麼差距如此之大"},{"start":11537.031,"end":11558.013,"text":"您的看法呢基本上我跟委員報告我們做這一份報告主要的我們不是針對他針對我們的事實上我們剛剛我也有回答我們的委員當時我們是看到就是說在很多的"},{"start":11559.314,"end":11563.177,"text":"報導裡面都說火車那個不動產業是我們的經濟的火車頭這是第一個第二個呢有一篇社論呢他也這麼認為但是呢我們覺得中央銀行根據那個數據我們分析的結果應該我們只是最主要我們只是說要呈現那個數據給大家我們沒有就是說要"},{"start":11586.735,"end":11599.973,"text":"後來也就是說看到我們的Q&A說實在的委員我也跟你說一個這個就好像是故事"},{"start":11601.061,"end":11602.942,"text":"事實上當時我們在記者會記者會的時候本來我是要把這個護錄PO出去的"},{"start":11619.173,"end":11643.151,"text":"那後來我跟我們同事講就是說這個PO出去不好啦這個好像會讓人家我打斷您的話我打斷您的故事因為我有很多故事要跟你說這個你要發表任何數據一定要是要很客觀不是你們央行的研究團隊的結果你要參考組織總署參考中心院的相關的數據來做一個橫頻的報導所以我建議這是溝通的問題我不是說你的數據有問題"},{"start":11647.754,"end":11658.581,"text":"但是跟其他的單位包括公會跟中經院跟組織總署提出的數據是不一樣的而且差別很大所以造成民眾的混淆應該都是一樣的應該大家都是用那個組織總署的數據"},{"start":11665.549,"end":11686.779,"text":"主計總署的數據呢2024年主要行業明目生產毛爾占明目基地列比重總裁我先不跟你討論我有空再跟你討論因為我這邊還有10個故事要跟你說我只講了一個故事所以為什麼你的一言一行你的這個記者會也好或者公布的這個新聞稿也好所有的行業都戰戰兢兢包括金融業也是一樣好 這個選擇性信用管是從2020年12月以來第7波"},{"start":11693.482,"end":11721.038,"text":"你們最調整的主要的檢討或者調整的主要的依據或者主要的參考是什麼是不是這個不動產貸款集中度我看你們報告裡面從去年的最高點37.61一年降到今年8月的36.71要降到什麼樣水準你才會覺得有可能去調整或者是檢討這個選擇性信用管制或者放鬆"},{"start":11723.079,"end":11738.07,"text":"還是有其他的數據參考包委員 事實上我們參考的數據不是只有集中度還有一些的指標還有哪些指標 你們說明一下包括就是說我們不動產的它的一個成長率"},{"start":11738.791,"end":11743.498,"text":"住宅的那個貸款的那個成長率是怎麼樣建築融資的成長率是怎麼樣整體的那個什麼不弄產業的那個融資的成長率是怎麼樣這個都是我們觀察還有包括你的那個大概有幾項指標你們大概說一下大概幾項指標"},{"start":11755.055,"end":11770.256,"text":"這些都是還有包括你的那個房價的指數這個都是我們觀察的指標還有他的交換他的那個交易的那個動數你們把所有您做決策或怎麼樣你做的決策的參考的這個依據啊你能不能有一個清單給我們做參考"},{"start":11772.318,"end":11774.779,"text":"我們觀察的 我可以列出給委員就是說哪些的指標是我們觀察的事實上我跟委員報告"},{"start":11796.388,"end":11818.107,"text":"我們在我們的報告裡面也都有揭露一些你的報告我詳細的總裁你這個用詳細書面去提供給秋色委員最後一個30秒就是說你們這個報告裡面銀行自主管理不動產的貸款對不對優先存在自用住宅跟這個都跟危老配合政府政策的貸款"},{"start":11819.048,"end":11835.729,"text":"那央行已經給銀行自主彈性調整空間了是什麼叫自主彈性調整空間這個太抽象你們具體的我想這個不會有抽象這個銀行都知道它不會是抽象有沒有各個銀行不同的標準"},{"start":11837.109,"end":11841.21,"text":"還是有一定適用的標準還是跟銀行不一樣不是說一定適用只要我們認為就是說他給我們揭示給我們的這些數據我們認為就是說他是因為他為什麼他會超過他的目標是因為他對首購他對都更為老對社會住宅的那個什麼的那個而導致他的這個"},{"start":11861.317,"end":11884.278,"text":"指標它的那個指數它的那個成長率高於它的目標各個銀行的自主彈性標準不一樣不一樣啊它不一樣就看它的目前狀況對 這因為它每一個銀行它的一個策略它的一個貸款的一個不太一樣我建議您再去跟所有針對這些國有銀行啊你們給它自主彈性調整空間你要去review一下有些銀行真的貸款的比登天還難"},{"start":11885.279,"end":11911.456,"text":"所以比登天還難啊比登天那是他自己的practice你已經有自主財信你已經自主財信但他還是要有些銀行是很難貸款所以你大概也要去銀行很難貸款是因為銀行他有5P他也要follow他的5P啊對不對那如果說這個借物呢他不符合他的5P那當然他是很難貸款啊這個蠻複雜的表先生再請教"},{"start":11915.165,"end":11921.931,"text":"好 謝謝 好 謝謝球組委員接下來我們請葛如軍委員質詢好 謝謝主席 有請央行楊總裁好 請楊總裁"},{"start":11950.052,"end":11972.943,"text":"總裁好 首先非常感謝央行在9月初的時候有發表一份投影片提到美元穩定幣與新台幣穩定幣相關的議題說明您最近也有提到說台幣穩定幣有發行空間本席要真的是非常感謝您有這樣的一個開放的思維空間我也在我的社群媒體都說非常感動也先在這裡先謝謝楊總裁"},{"start":11975.664,"end":11995.614,"text":"我想裡面這個說明裡面有一段有簡述其實就是貨幣跟穩定幣之間相互的影響事實上我們也看到在這裡面虛擬世界的經濟的穩定幣佔比美元已經高達九成了這取得了壟斷性的地位這個圖是從你們的說明報告裡面出來的"},{"start":11999.016,"end":12022.977,"text":"那我就想說其實我們不希望說實體世界我們有台灣非常強盛的貿易我們有新台幣可是虛擬世界裡面如果沒有新台幣可能會不會影響我們的金融穩定那您之前的說法是比較開放的但是我們在今天的業務報告裡面又沒有看到這個我想問一下有沒有"},{"start":12024.218,"end":12030.963,"text":"機會我們之後有更多來自央行的對於穩定幣的一些建議我們會在相關的報告裡頭還會再看到呢會啦因為這個金管會它的一個虛擬資產服務法這個就進入已經是行政院在審查要進來給我們那個立法院那裡面就會有一張是純粹是就穩定幣的一個"},{"start":12053.778,"end":12074.886,"text":"所以這個會這個待會我們會再問一下這個總裁我想問現在這個虛擬世界都是美元90%以上的話這會影響我們新台幣的跟台灣的這個金融穩定跟金融韌性可能潛在影響還是會有對不對所以也是為什麼您之前開始比較對穩定幣的說法比較開放是這樣子嗎"},{"start":12076.646,"end":12091.974,"text":"基本上我們也希望這個就是說彭主委他也認為就是說是有發展空間中央銀行也是認為就是說是因為如果說我們的一個金融資產把它數位化"},{"start":12093.201,"end":12095.503,"text":"把它代幣化代幣化了以後第一個我們虛擬資產以新台幣計價的它就會比較蓬勃的發展這是第一個第二個在虛擬資產以新台幣來計價的會比較蓬勃發展以外穩定幣 新台幣以新台幣計價的穩定幣它才比較有發展的空間"},{"start":12120.243,"end":12143.722,"text":"我們的想法是這樣太好了謝謝因為其實我們看到報告裡面還有金管會的報告都有提到其實證券期貨業保險業三業合計其實1到8月稅前盈餘6000億元較去年同期減少2000億其實就是受到台幣升值的影響未來如果新台幣的流通減少確實就有可能在匯率上面"},{"start":12144.883,"end":12164.278,"text":"會有所不利啦所以我相信您應該也理解說跟美元這樣的深度綁定也許不太算是一個健康的方向未來如果能夠透過台幣穩定幣或者這個所謂代幣化的這個市場我們台灣的加入應該可以持續的來緩解這樣的一個狀態您同意嗎"},{"start":12166.046,"end":12181.119,"text":"可以啦 我想就是說這個今晚會他要推出這個當然我想也有他的原因啦那在這裡呢這個法呢 我想中央銀行一定會"},{"start":12182.46,"end":12204.757,"text":"會來協助他們太好了我先這個肯定央行因為早期老實說我也是CBDC的支持者但是後來看了非常多的分析報告我們對於零售型的CBDC確實有一些疑慮所以我也予以肯定說央行目前是認為零售型的CBDC沒有急迫性這樣的做法我們是肯定的"},{"start":12205.498,"end":12225.671,"text":"那我想接下來也還是要提到您剛剛說央行會支持這個虛擬資產服務法那其實這裡面有一個章節就是穩定幣那我們現在看到了從今年的10月份法國銀行巨頭要發行這個Follow Micra的這個穩定幣然後日本的三大銀行也聯手要發行"},{"start":12226.911,"end":12255.009,"text":"我們現在就真的是意識到其實穩定幣已經在貿易裡面非常受到重視我們台灣有167萬家的中小企業裡面對接國際的賣家我們其實有看到貿易協會10月20號公布的調查近半數受訪台灣企業認為穩定幣將在貿易中扮演重要的角色想要展開出息應用的近一成"},{"start":12255.569,"end":12269.9,"text":"海外台商也有將近一成已經在使用穩定幣而調查結果認為穩定幣對貿易的重要性的預估是接近50%認為是很重要的那我想未來這個穩定幣我們應該要採取在供鏈上面發行"},{"start":12271.201,"end":12271.381,"text":"到目前為止是"},{"start":12296.161,"end":12313.304,"text":"因為還是在行政院的所以我們會持續跟金管會來討論這個問題好 最後一點點時間因為近期我們看到我們的實體貿易其實佔台灣可能超過八成"},{"start":12314.085,"end":12340.29,"text":"那實體貿易就會受到我們的關稅還有各種這個國與國關係的影響那我們就必然要把很多的經濟或者我們的貿易的這個金融轉到數位的世界來保存我們的韌性跟主權那我們現在看到這樣的事情已經發生了整個實體產業又要被抓去其他的國家也許數位經濟確實是我們的一條活路跟活水"},{"start":12340.99,"end":12364.243,"text":"那我們這個根據報表我們看到下週四財委會就要排我們的虛擬資產服務專法還有執法的報告但是您剛剛提到央行支持可是行政院到現在一直還沒有送進立法院那我想這個卡應該不是卡在央行吧應該不會啦那有沒有這個總裁有沒有知道大概什麼時候可以送進來"},{"start":12364.963,"end":12373.255,"text":"行程上能不能再加快一點這個程序我沒有非常的掌握不過整個主管機關還是在金管會"},{"start":12375.578,"end":12399.106,"text":"好那穩定幣的章節央行這邊應該沒有在阻擋啦不會不會絕對是不會不會在這個我們中央銀行是持開放的一個立場好那我們的金融韌性金融主權跟數位經濟的發展就有勞總裁跟我們大家一起來協助我們希望大家合作啦好謝謝總裁謝謝主席謝謝葛如軍委員"},{"start":12400.888,"end":12406.299,"text":"接下來我們請王洪威委員王洪威委員不在"},{"start":12414.875,"end":12437.751,"text":"我們今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢本次會議作如下的決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢及答覆或請委員質詢會及答覆或請補充資訊請中央銀行於一週內已書面答覆委員另行要求期限者從其所定"},{"start":12439.278,"end":12447.624,"text":"本次會議程已進行完畢堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理現在散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}