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12:29:04","會議時間":"2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。\n三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。\n四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算。\n五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算。\n六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金預算。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一至六預算提案截止收件時間：6月10日下午4時】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.07284375,"end":5.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.67471875,"end":26.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.54284375,"end":19.184093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.11971875,"end":26.204093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.204093750000002,"end":27.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.64284375,"end":27.098468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.17846875,"end":36.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.36284375,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.89846875,"end":42.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.43346875,"end":44.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.737218750000004,"end":51.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.275968750000004,"end":54.45284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.587843750000005,"end":58.924718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.51534375000001,"end":61.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.25346875,"end":64.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.54409375,"end":65.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.10096875,"end":76.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.40284375,"end":86.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.02159375000001,"end":98.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.63159375000001,"end":100.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.67784375000001,"end":103.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.62659375000001,"end":104.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.09471875000001,"end":106.20846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.85409375,"end":108.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.19534375,"end":114.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.98346875,"end":115.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.50659375000001,"end":127.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.30221875000001,"end":130.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.23846875,"end":133.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.39409375,"end":141.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.07659375,"end":149.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.25221875,"end":152.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.37409375000001,"end":159.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.20846875,"end":162.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.19971875000002,"end":163.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.29659375,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.47159375,"end":180.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.53909375,"end":177.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.58971875,"end":177.69096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.69096875000002,"end":177.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.57659375,"end":181.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.31471875000003,"end":193.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.07659375,"end":194.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.26221875000002,"end":199.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.53221875,"end":195.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.53159375,"end":200.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.13034375,"end":206.37846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.37846875000002,"end":212.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.82909375000003,"end":215.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.90909375,"end":213.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.14096875,"end":221.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.71784375000001,"end":245.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.27534375000002,"end":255.65346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.29909375000003,"end":257.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.74596875000003,"end":289.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.19659375000003,"end":292.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.72784375000003,"end":300.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.84909375,"end":305.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.31721875,"end":302.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.44721875000005,"end":314.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.46284375000005,"end":320.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.26346875,"end":322.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.12784375,"end":326.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.66346875,"end":327.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.78971875,"end":330.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.59534375000004,"end":331.00034375}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麻煩請NCC主委好 我們請陳主委昨天好 那個上次有跟你們問過現在NCC好像到7月就會沒有委員了嗎是那我上次說請你跟卓委院長講一下NCC沒有委員會造成什麼狀況不知道你有跟他講了嗎有 至少講三次那他的態度是什麼"},{"start":28.815,"end":51.472,"text":"那個院裡頭大概說都有廣泛徵詢各界的各界人才但是都不好找不容易找喔是喔那他有廣泛徵但是不好找所以NCC就沒有委員了就沒有委員了就是因為卓永泰跟你講說他知道這個事情很嚴重但是不好找所以乾脆就不要有委員"},{"start":52.373,"end":58.037,"text":"那主委 戴主委您這個就您的看法啦NCC這樣子還算是一個獨立機關嗎"},{"start":60.037,"end":86.295,"text":"獨立機關我們當初為什麼會成立NCC這個背景你應該很知道嘛知道對不對仿照美國的FCC覺得要有一個獨立的機關監管媒體嘛政治不要深入到媒體裡面所以要有一個NCC結果現在NCC的存廢啊是看行政院長他有沒有積極廣泛的去找委員我相信如果他認真去找還是有人會想要做但是他不認為這個事情重要嘛"},{"start":87.099,"end":114.035,"text":"所以就擺爛了6月 您的任期到6月底嗎到7月31號然後接下來我看媒體報導是說要指派一個代理主委是吧這是報派報派的嘛 代理主委然後呢 NCC就從獨立機關變首長制然後因為是行政院指派的指派的 所以就聽行政院的然後就可以 更可以把政治的手伸到媒體"},{"start":115.691,"end":132.939,"text":"不會發生這種事情因為組織法九條二項六款等等其實很多都是委員會保留事項沒有委員會就沒有無法組成委員會沒有委員會很多重大的決策重大的法令自修都沒有辦法做那代表說行政院不認為這些事情很重要沒有人做也無所謂"},{"start":133.759,"end":159.583,"text":"不是 但是還有其他這個不用委員會處理的層次的部分有些是我們委託外面機關處理的戴主委你也很為難啦因為問題不在你啦我只是透過跟你的詢答凸顯我覺得行政院根本就在開玩笑嘛從來不把這個NC的業務當一回事啊七月底就沒有委員了然後你自己覺得很嚴重很多事情會停擺但行政院長官不當一回事啊"},{"start":160.27,"end":177.721,"text":"那這裡凸顯NCE好像可有可無嘛沒有沒有那我可以看你們的報告了你裡面有一個業務是說要你們還是要致力努力讓有線電視普及化我想問一下喔有線電視訂戶的這個最高峰是2017年嘛當時全台灣有526.9萬戶嘛現在剩幾萬戶"},{"start":182.344,"end":192.95,"text":"大概掉了十幾趴所以剩幾萬戶四百多萬四百三十一萬是嗎是好那結果你們的業務還是要努力的讓有線電是普及化"},{"start":194.37,"end":216.241,"text":"我光看這個報告我就覺得NCT根本沒有跟上數位匯流時代我們是致力讓它如果這是一個潮流我們是要期待業者能夠做一些對應的轉型你的報告上面講說你們就是要致力讓有線電視普及化你們報告上面寫的是沒錯有些是偏鄉那些地方現在大家現在在講什麼現在是在講說數位匯流那有線電視為什麼會出現減線潮"},{"start":221.784,"end":244.461,"text":"我看你們報告這樣子寫就知道你根本就完全沒有這個概念嘛現在就是因為數位匯流很多OTT平台嘛很多年輕人他已經不看有線電視了嘛他轉到網路上面去所以當有年輕人他比如說他自己變成一戶的時候他就不會去接有線電視因為他的主要都是以網路為主嘛才會出現這個有線電視訂屋下降那你現在是你現在策略是努力向年輕人去推廣有線電視嗎"},{"start":245.482,"end":256.774,"text":"不是 他們現在都是Bundle Service一起提供很多有線電視都是早期可能是買有線送寬頻現在有很多是寬頻跟有線其實是Bundle在一起服務所以你講的這些都是很"},{"start":257.813,"end":277.046,"text":"就是細節啦但是大的潮流就是數位匯流嘛所以我今天一直建議我是說NCC應該去如果因應數位匯流時代你要思考的是怎麼樣鬆拔歸鬆綁面對不同的平台其實都在做同一件事情可是你對有線電視的管理是非常嚴格但對其他的平台你是沒有辦法管理也不能管"},{"start":277.679,"end":302.247,"text":"那既然是這樣子應該要鬆綁這才有因應數位匯流啦那我覺得現在沒有委員沒有委員那是行政院造成的但你們也可以去思考一下如果今天NCC真的停擺那如果假設有人倡議廢掉NCC你們是不是可以針對你們的業務特別是這種違背潮流的東西可以做個改革好不好這個你們去規劃一下我們就其實在以時俱進來做我們促使SO來做轉型"},{"start":307.383,"end":322.014,"text":"就看不到嘛 謝謝主委啦反正你在兩個月啦希望在下台之前可以針對剛剛講的事情做一點事情主席再給我兩分鐘我問一個簡單的事情 問一下速發部謝謝主委兩分鐘 簡單的事情"},{"start":329.561,"end":344.998,"text":"可以嗎 有齁部長 關心一下打炸很快跟您問一下蘇巴部有打炸這塊主要是在網路上面主炸那有一個 你們有做一個網路的詐騙通報查詢網之前我也有關心過"},{"start":345.839,"end":371.559,"text":"那我是覺得在介面上面可以再做更好一點然後還可以幫助主詐這是你們的介面我們現在秀出來的部分你可以輸入這個可疑的網址然後手機號碼跟驗證碼然後接下來你們就會去查譬如說這個網址牽涉到內政部的或者衛福部的或什麼部你們就會轉給主管機關讓他去查查完之後你們就會告訴民眾說這到底是不是詐騙對吧是而且會下架通知會下架我知道我們接下來看我覺得有兩個問題第一個問題是"},{"start":375.678,"end":402.414,"text":"下一頁好不好第一個問題是這個是你們的比例在FB上面被通報是最多的然後Google然後再來就是Instagram等等但是在LINE這塊就比較少那其實LINE上面的詐騙是非常多非常多可是為什麼你們在你們的網站上在你們這個通報網上面LINE的比例比較低有一個很主要的原因我直接告訴你是因為LINE不好通報"},{"start":403.334,"end":429.85,"text":"因為在你們的介面上面主要是以貼網址為主所以LINE不好通報很多人就不會在這個上面通報可是實際上LINE可不可以通報呢其實可以你還是有辦法我沒有做那個嘛就是你還是可以把LINE把它轉成一個網址貼到這個上面但是因為大家都不知道所以就失去了一個就是用這個通報網去檢舉LINE的機會"},{"start":430.936,"end":458.632,"text":"那我希望說在這個界面上面你們可以做一點改良是好不好把這個LINE因為LINE這個詐騙很多是你要嘛就是宣導說怎麼去把LINE的東西轉成王子你去宣導這個事不然就是你在界面上做一個比較針對LINE的使用者友善的部分是非常謝謝委員的建議我們會朝正方向發展那如果委員這邊還有比較具體的一些建議或者是訊息的話麻煩再提供給我們再提供給你們然後還有"},{"start":460.494,"end":473.486,"text":"後面還有一個問題就是你秀出那個介面因為現在很多人是他看到一個網址他就貼過來你就通知比如說FB下架但是那個帳號會一直貼"},{"start":475.808,"end":490.956,"text":"他會一直貼啊是所以網路上就有在講啊嘿他說我有通報審核了但是但是對方就一直貼啊是那你那你為什麼沒有除你們除了把那個網址下架之外你沒有辦法把他的帳號是做一個處理嗎"},{"start":491.736,"end":518.884,"text":"是這個地方我們有在就是要求Meta把這些重複的這些發這個詐騙的帳號就是下架那他們也做了一些作為看起來還做得不夠好我們會請他們那個改善因為他們只有在他們在後台他可以很清楚的看到哪幾個帳號是相關聯的不單是同一個帳號有時候他這些帳號是用同一支手機或同一個email去註冊的這個其實那個Meta那邊都查得到我們會要求他們謝謝"},{"start":521.145,"end":545.634,"text":"對 否則網友就說我一直防不勝防因為很多貼文其實都一樣的都是一樣的 可是他貼很多次那你只是把那個貼文下架 但帳號還在所以沒有辦法這樣解決就Straight還是對 都一樣啊Straight上面也有啊對 都一樣啊這是一個型態我覺得你印編譽鑽做這個通報網就把它做到好啦好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}