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爭取運價從現行的適用未滿3歲月有進一步擴大到6歲前都可以適用這就已經涵蓋上週總統公布的18項措施中"},{"start":35.699,"end":48.588,"text":"從0-3歲升級到0-6歲並改名為育兒假應該這樣沒有錯嗎?對好那彈性的育兒假從今年1月正式散入之後根據勞動部統計申請人數是持續攀升以逼近1.2萬申請筆數更衝破到2.4萬那其中5月"},{"start":52.358,"end":72.105,"text":"的單月男性申請更首度超越女性已經達到50.3%嘛沒有錯嘛這個破除過去的這個育嬰假都是由女性申請的純容刻板印象那也顯示這個政策方向是正確對平衡家庭的分工是有幫助的嘛所以目前育兒假從0到申請要升級2.0版然後成為0至6歲"},{"start":76.406,"end":104.982,"text":"也因此勞動部有規劃彈性的請假天數從原本30天增加一倍60天雙親都能申請因此合計是120天也沒有錯嘛這看起來很合理但是越想越不對勁因為這不是3年是6年的時間然後在小孩進到小學之前遇到的狀況就是60天的處理所以家長要跟小朋友說好約定好了這6年每年生病10天"},{"start":108.87,"end":134.727,"text":"差不多嘛不能超過不然部長一定會糾正我這雙親都能申請啊所以他可以每年至少有20天所以他可以多一倍生病的時間又沒有錯嘛我們目前天數的設計是這樣沒有錯是啊是是但是我要提醒部長你知道內政部2023年已經公布台灣的單親家庭突破70萬戶同時有一半"},{"start":139.622,"end":161.953,"text":"也是35萬的這個弱勢的單親家庭這個當時在規劃這個政策調整這個政策有把這樣的一個樣態把他納入在你整個規劃要提升2.0版的這個預額價嗎其實可能他是單親家庭但是他可能還是有兩雙方是可以照顧的"},{"start":165.662,"end":187.641,"text":"單親是父母離異啊那你的可能的意思是你有調查過,有盤整過,還是...我的意思是說單親是父母離異,可是他...那不一定咧不一定啊對,除非他是可能...我也是單親家庭長大的小朋友我爸跟我媽不是離異啊我爸是神威顯赫啊得道勝天啊"},{"start":189.625,"end":218.388,"text":"我就是想說你有把這個因素納入嗎這個樣態給他納入嗎有不然他這樣你就少60天啊不公平啊不公平嘛對不對所以就是說我們單純把倍數增加那利益良善嘛不過你沒有把這一群思考在這個整個你的新的一個政策利益良善政策裡面那顯然這樣就會造成歧視也不公平有這樣的問題存在我只是提醒部長部長要不要思考一下"},{"start":219.673,"end":248.251,"text":"而且三十天的育嬰假在三年內或許還可以安排家長心理上可能還有一些比較好的盤算六年你要再叫他預先規劃五年六年的事情這有可能嗎因為草案還沒有正式審查啦所以我才請部長這邊再思考一下這個彈性育兒假真的是單純增加一倍就好嗎跟委員說明的確當然這個天數的拿捏都還是會當然他各種的天數都還是要"},{"start":249.659,"end":278.065,"text":"做一個評估啦那我們的確這次選擇是說把原本的30天倍增到60天來去做使用那有些人他可能會是在前面用的多後面用的少或有些是前面用的少後面用的多您的方向我決定是支持嘛對不對但是我就用剛剛這個例子你跟我都還沒有思考到可能還有其他一些樣態我們沒有思考進去就是簡單講就是可能就是所謂的特殊狀況啦"},{"start":278.965,"end":298.451,"text":"那這種措施跟我們怎麼樣的更直接的可以來讓這些的需求者有更大的一個受惠然後也不會造成歧視跟你說嘛最直接的單親家庭他就少一個人分擔六十天了這要怎麼處理這差一倍耶你要給一倍但是對這兩個他就是減一倍"},{"start":301.69,"end":303.971,"text":"可是的確這個職場的制度其實他常設計的時候他會有蠻多會需要去進一步去考量的地方啦包括勞資之間這種種的"},{"start":317.737,"end":337.933,"text":"可行性的情境這樣子另外一個角度思考我這一點還是要特別提到不要算新家庭就120天單新家庭就60天這部分我還是要特別請部長再思考一下另外一個如果今天遇到的是吃完了的家庭或是有些疾病就單純120天夠嗎這一塊要不要再一併思考一下"},{"start":342.885,"end":372.139,"text":"人家吃完的家庭的爸爸媽媽是非常的還是罕病的小朋友等等諸如此類這種爸爸媽媽尤其是新手爸爸媽媽那是特別的挑戰特別辛苦因為制度是要讓國民能夠安生養安心養安心生那制度要再設計我們就應該更想像更多更設計更好的一個制度出來只是這樣做一個提醒好不好可以吧"},{"start":373.069,"end":394.982,"text":"我們可以綜合來想一下那的確就是說當把一個天數拉到很多的時候其實我們也會有點擔心比方說呃他在就業上面會不會遇到一些被標籤化的阻礙其實這邊這幾個但他每個因素都不是絕對的每個因素不是絕對的可是都必須綜合來考慮所以我們說我們來綜合來想"},{"start":395.282,"end":418.205,"text":"對啦,就是希望部長可以綜合多方面的一些考慮跟這樣的一個設計才會讓這個制度更正完善,應該是這麼說那我們對這個老公部對新手爸爸媽媽給予很多的生意政策的支持跟補貼我想我一直講說我支持這個方向不過這個方法可能要在"},{"start":418.946,"end":438.121,"text":"跟細緻的一些討論跟調整而且我們也不是只有少數道問題我們同時也面臨到超高齡的問題嘛對不對2025年到現在高齡者不代表不能工作啊我們在現在醫療技術發達65歲也不是自來的據點孫院長當時還2019年那時候是71歲你有印象啦拿一支撞球桿全台跑脫脫"},{"start":446.727,"end":460.858,"text":"這年輕人未必還有辦法像他這樣的一個愧然跟精神所以我們在這邊我們在這邊108年定定的中高齡者及高齡者的就業促進法然後這108年65歲以上的就業是8.29108到現在11410.137年只有增加兩個百分點不然就這樣成績你接受嗎"},{"start":472.725,"end":496.072,"text":"跟委員說明其實我們認為還有在進步的空間所以我們今年其實我們也在規劃推出了一個更擴大的55plus的方案那可以讓這個中高齡或尤其是高齡者的就業上面有更多被支持的力道跟空間其實在我們方案裡面其實有在我們5月的時候其實已經上路了因為時間的關係我要再提供幾個數據給部長做參考這個民間人力公司在3月份"},{"start":501.961,"end":511.964,"text":"公布一個調查,45歲以上勞工最擔心的是年齡歧視找不到工作就佔了40.2,職業被年輕人取得29.3,職能不足4.4,工作選擇變少是18.3其實這個年齡歧視其實就是中高齡者及高齡者最擔憂的一個問題"},{"start":527.428,"end":543.464,"text":"並且有高達59.2的中高齡上班族曾表示因為年齡在職場上遭到歧視那具體的狀況又包括這個被告知年齡不符合而不入局又高達62.6遭同事或主事貼標籤34.9優先裁員對象26.5這個部長知道這些數據嗎?有,我沒有看過你沒有看過嗎?我們怎麼因應?"},{"start":552.629,"end":572.365,"text":"去年新宇航空就因為違反歧視中高齡就業被桃園市政府開罰了30萬中高齡者及高齡者的就業出境在今天已經邁入了超高齡社會那絕對是有必要嘛而且也是方向正確嘛對不對那如果這個就業歧視不解決這整個制度就會原地踏步了"},{"start":573.08,"end":590.132,"text":"跟委員報告首先因為年齡而對於就業上面權有些有些差別對待違反這個就業服務法的這個就業歧視這個當然就裁罰部分我們一定會做那另外我們為了避免企業誤踩紅線所以我們今年針對特別針對中高齡或高齡者遭受到的年齡歧視我們會把相關的判決相關我們認定的太陽把它逐一整理出來然後讓企業知道"},{"start":602.12,"end":619.208,"text":"當他做什麼行為的時候會違反到這個法令上面的就業歧視這一點是我們今年會做的好 用案例提醒企業不得手換這些案例的情況不過我今天是要再度提醒勞工部提醒部長跟市長其實我們當時訂這個法的第28條開除民意65歲以上勞工雇主得以"},{"start":629.687,"end":643.762,"text":"定期勞動契約雇傭資勞基網第9條規定臨時性、短期性、季節性、特定性的工作得以定期契約這個關於臨時、短期、季節及特定性的工作之定義"},{"start":645.063,"end":670.382,"text":"又以該法的適應細則第六條這時間關係我就不再追溯 請部長、市長詳閱我是在這來見法的精神其實早就去這個特殊的情況才有定期契約不然都是不定期契約嘛來藉此保障這個勞工權利那結果勞動部在中高齡、高齡者的就業促進法中開通名業就允許契約給予這些65歲以上的定期契約"},{"start":671.443,"end":695.265,"text":"其實這無形間也塑造一個社會形象就是65歲不退休的你就只有能做這些臨時性的工作所以有媒體報導不少倫理英堂都有設置中高齡的專區然後彈性點進這個網頁裡會發現有不少的工作性質都是兼職的啊輪班至於時薪計算有的是半日班等等等就比較屬於刺激的工作了"},{"start":696.789,"end":713.937,"text":"這個不能再知道了跟委員說明這是我們考慮過那我們也參考了一些其他國家的案例的確我們看到很多國家他在促進中高齡的工作裡面都會朝向讓他的契約制度更加彈性化的方式能夠讓中高齡其實出來參與的機會會再更增加"},{"start":717.939,"end":737.138,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們現在在中高齡及高齡者的出行就會發體面其實確實在這裡面是有用一個讓他其實可以用停一期月的方式就讓他的彈性可以再比這個再多一些這樣子我不否認會有高齡者需要這樣的工時班次的但不是所有高齡者都是"},{"start":738.12,"end":749.997,"text":"所以你們自己勞動部有調查一個是勞動部調查在113年的時候中高齡型高齡者希望的工作室全部公使正式工作的就佔比76.17"},{"start":752.813,"end":775.467,"text":"也是希望非典型的工作只有23.83這是你們自己的調查如果以這個調查我們用最快的這樣的一個態度來正視這高齡者不代表他們不行了香港是在這個時代裡面更應該提供健全的職場讓高齡者、中高齡者能持續在職場上獲得自信跟成就而不是說有工作就應該偷笑"},{"start":777.709,"end":799.367,"text":"所以我要求要求專家學者勞工團體高齡者代表前面檢討中高齡者及高齡者就越促進華的相關配套措施因為日本跟韓國都有高齡者從事刺激的相關問題台灣有時候可以維持全世界是表率結果部長會帶動棋可以啦一個月內謝謝主席謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:40:39.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:40:40.279000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T13:40:40.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:40:42.320000+08:00","text":"請洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:40:42.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:40:44.822000+08:00","text":"因為時間緊迫，部長請快點。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:40:44.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:02.733000+08:00","text":"部長，上週總統公布臺灣人口對策的新戰略，其中有回應本席3月17日在立院總質詢的時候，向卓院長爭取育嬰假從現行適用未滿3歲幼兒，進一步擴大到6歲前都可以適用。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:03.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:13.381000+08:00","text":"這已經涵蓋上週總統公布的18項措施，從0到3歲升級為0到6歲，並改名為育兒假。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:14.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:15.743000+08:00","text":"這樣應該沒有錯吧？對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:17.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:21.927000+08:00","text":"彈性育嬰假從今年1月正式上路，根據勞動部統計，申請人數是持續攀升喔！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:22.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:23.428000+08:00","text":"已逼近1.2萬人，申請筆數更衝破到2.4萬筆。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:23.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:31.880000+08:00","text":"其中5月單月男性申請更首度超越女性，已經達到50.3%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:32.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:33.880000+08:00","text":"沒有錯嘛？是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:34.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:41:44.224000+08:00","text":"破除過去育嬰假都是由女性申請的傳統刻板印象，也顯示這個政策方向是正確的，對平衡家庭分工是有幫助的。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:41:45.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:00.071000+08:00","text":"所以目前育兒假從0到3歲要升級為2.0版的0至6歲，也因此，勞動部規劃彈性請假天數從原本30天增加一倍為60天，雙親都能申請，合計是120天。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:00.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:01.051000+08:00","text":"也沒有錯嘛？是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:01.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:06.134000+08:00","text":"這看起來很合理，但是越想越不對勁。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:06.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:24.211000+08:00","text":"因為這不是3年，是6年的時間，小孩進小學之前如果遇到狀況，就是用這60天處理，所以家長要和小朋友約定好，這6年每年生病10天，差不多嘛！","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:25.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:25.972000+08:00","text":"不能超過喔！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:27.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:29.994000+08:00","text":"然後部長一定會糾正我，這個假雙親都能申請啊！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:30.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:37.579000+08:00","text":"所以每年至少有20天，他可以多一倍生病的時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:37.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:38.040000+08:00","text":"沒有錯嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:39.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:42:41.862000+08:00","text":"我們目前天數的設計是這樣，沒有錯。是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:42:42.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:12.491000+08:00","text":"但是我要提醒部長，內政部2023年已經公布臺灣的單親家庭突破70萬戶，其中30萬戶是弱勢單親家庭，當時在規劃、調整這個政策時，有把這樣的樣態納入整個規劃中，然後提升為2.0版的育兒假嗎？有嗎？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:13.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:21.523000+08:00","text":"他可能是單親家庭，但是也可能雙方都可以照顧，單親只是指父母離異啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:21.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:24.706000+08:00","text":"你所謂的可能，意思是你們有調查過、有盤整過嗎？還是……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:24.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:27.508000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，單親是父母離異，可是他……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:28.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:28.409000+08:00","text":"不一定耶！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:31.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:31.872000+08:00","text":"除非他當時可能……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:32.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:42.441000+08:00","text":"我也是單親家庭長大的小朋友，我爸和我媽不是離異，我爸是神威顯赫、得道升天。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:44.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:48.789000+08:00","text":"我是說你們有把這個因素、樣態納入嗎？有。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:49.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:51.211000+08:00","text":"不然這樣單親家庭就少了60天啦！","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:54.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:55.134000+08:00","text":"不公平嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:55.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:56.675000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:57.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:43:59.537000+08:00","text":"我們單純把倍數增加是立意良善嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:43:59.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:44:10.706000+08:00","text":"不過你們沒有把這個群體也納入新的、立意良善的政策裡面思考，這樣顯然就會造成歧視，也不公平，會有這樣的問題存在。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:44:11.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:44:13.368000+08:00","text":"我只是提醒部長，部長要不要思考一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:44:14.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:44:27.641000+08:00","text":"而且30天的育兒假，3年內或許還可以安排，家長心理上可能有一些比較好的盤算，可是你叫他預先規劃5年、6年的事情，這有可能嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:44:27.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:44:29.082000+08:00","text":"因為草案還沒有正式審查啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:44:29.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:44:36.566000+08:00","text":"所以我才請部長再思考一下，彈性育兒假真的是單純增加一倍就好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:44:37.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:44:45.659000+08:00","text":"的確，各種天數還是要做一個評估啦！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:44:46.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:44:57.502000+08:00","text":"我們這次的選擇是把原本的30天倍增到60天，有些人可能是前面用的多、後面用的少，或有些是前面用的少、後面用的多，可以讓他們相對比較……","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:44:59.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:13.045000+08:00","text":"您的方向我絕對是支持的，但是除了我剛剛說的這個例子，或許還有你和我都沒有思考到的，可能還有其他樣態，但我們沒有思考到，簡單講就是所謂的特殊狀況啦！","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:14.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:25.009000+08:00","text":"這種特殊狀況，我們怎麼樣更直接的讓這些需求者可以更大的受惠，然後也不會造成歧視？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:25.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:25.469000+08:00","text":"不然你說嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:26.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:30.710000+08:00","text":"最直接的就是單親家庭，他就是少了一個人所以不能增加60天，這要怎麼處理？","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:31.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:32.071000+08:00","text":"這樣差一倍耶！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:32.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:33.431000+08:00","text":"你們本來要多給一倍，但是對這些人來說就是減少一倍。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:33.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:34.431000+08:00","text":"我是說不要小朋友一出生……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:34.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:35.431000+08:00","text":"這可能要綜合再想一下。對啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:35.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:36.431000+08:00","text":"不要小朋友一出生，結果因為父母的關係而開始出現差異。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:36.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:37.431000+08:00","text":"這個都有可能。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:36.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:38.491000+08:00","text":"可是職場制度設計的時候，會有滿多需要進一步去考量的地方啦！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:38.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:45:53.458000+08:00","text":"包括勞資之間種種可行性的情境。好。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:45:55.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:05.227000+08:00","text":"另外一點，由另外一個角度思考，這點我還是要特別提到，不要雙薪家庭就有120天，單親家庭只有60天，這部分還是要特別請部長再思考一下。","quality":0.764},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:05.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:12.012000+08:00","text":"另外，如果今天遇到的是遲緩兒家庭或是小孩有些疾病，這樣120天夠嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:12.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:12.913000+08:00","text":"這一塊要不要再一併思考一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:19.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:32.292000+08:00","text":"遲緩兒家庭的爸爸媽媽非常辛苦，還有罕病的小朋友等等，諸如此類，這些家庭的爸爸媽媽，尤其是新手爸爸媽媽，那是特別挑戰、特別辛苦。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:33.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:42.557000+08:00","text":"因為這個制度是要讓國民能夠安心養、安心生，這樣在制度設計上，我們就應該想像更多，設計更好的制度。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:44.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:46.078000+08:00","text":"我只是做一個提醒，好嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:46.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:47.119000+08:00","text":"可以吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:48.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:46:49.170000+08:00","text":"我們可以綜合想一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:46:50.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:02.858000+08:00","text":"但是當把天數拉到很多的時候，其實我們也會有點擔心，比方他在就業上面會不會遇到一些被標籤化的阻礙？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:04.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:10.282000+08:00","text":"當然，每個因素都不是絕對的，可是都必須綜合考慮，所以才會說我們綜合想一下。對啦！","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:11.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:22.795000+08:00","text":"希望部長可以綜合、多方面的考慮，這樣的設計才會讓這個制度更臻完善，應該是這麼說。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:25.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:31.404000+08:00","text":"勞動部對新手爸爸媽媽給予很多生育政策的支持和補貼，我支持這個方向啦！","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:32.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:36.788000+08:00","text":"不過方法可能要再做更細緻的討論和調整。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:37.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:41.392000+08:00","text":"而且我們也不是只有少子化的問題，同時也面臨超高齡的問題嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:42.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:42.152000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:42.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:42.993000+08:00","text":"從2025年到現在。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:44.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:46.536000+08:00","text":"高齡者不代表不能工作啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:48.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:50.499000+08:00","text":"現在醫療技術發達，65歲也不是職涯的句點。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:50.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:47:51.459000+08:00","text":"2019年，蘇院長那時候是71歲，你有印象吧？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:47:52.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:48:06.250000+08:00","text":"他拿一支撞球桿全臺跑透透，年輕人未必有他這樣的力氣和精神。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:48:06.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:48:15.858000+08:00","text":"所以我們在108年制定了中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法，108年65歲以上的就業率是8.29%，現在是10.13%，7年只有增加2個百分點，部長，你接受這樣的成績嗎？","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:48:28.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:48:47.891000+08:00","text":"其實我們也認為還有再進步的空間，所以我們今年也規劃推出一個擴大的55plus方案，可以讓中高齡，尤其是高齡者，在就業上面有更多被支持的力道和空間，這些在我們的方案裡面都有，5月的時候已經上路了。好。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:48:48.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:48:49.132000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，我要再提供幾個數據給部長參考。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:48:49.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:04.263000+08:00","text":"民間的人力公司在3月份公布一項調查，45歲以上勞工最擔心的是年齡歧視、找不到工作，占40.2%。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:04.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:06.064000+08:00","text":"職務被年輕人取代是29.3%，職能不足是24.4%，工作選擇變少是18.3%。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:06.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:36.822000+08:00","text":"其實年齡歧視是中高齡者及高齡者最擔憂的問題，並且有高達59.2%的中高齡上班族曾表示，因為年齡在職場上遭到歧視，具體狀況包括被告知年齡不符合而不錄取，高達62.6%，遭同事或主事貼標籤是34.9%，優先裁員對象是26.5%。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:36.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:37.263000+08:00","text":"部長知道這些數據嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:37.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:37.964000+08:00","text":"有，我們有看過。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:37.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:38.304000+08:00","text":"你們都有看過嘛！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:38.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:38.464000+08:00","text":"你們怎麼因應？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:38.464000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:47.629000+08:00","text":"我們有一些做法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:47.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:49:55.095000+08:00","text":"去年星宇航空就因為違反歧視中高齡就業的規定，被桃園市政府開罰30萬元。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:49:55.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:50:01.300000+08:00","text":"中高齡者及高齡者的就業促進，因為今天已經邁入超高齡社會，這絕對是有必要的嘛！","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:50:01.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:50:02.861000+08:00","text":"而且方向也正確嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:50:03.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:50:03.822000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:50:03.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:50:07.185000+08:00","text":"如果這個就業歧視不解決，整個制度就會原地踏步。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T13:50:09.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:50:19.708000+08:00","text":"首先，因為年齡而對就業有差別對待是違反就業服務法的就業歧視，當然在裁罰部分我們一定會做。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"黃司長琦雅","start":"2026-06-03T13:50:20.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:50:43.403000+08:00","text":"另外，我們為了避免企業誤踩紅線，所以今年特別針對中高齡或高齡者遭受到的年齡歧視，我們會把相關判決、我們認定的相關態樣逐一整理出來，讓企業知道做什麼行為會構成違反這個法令的就業歧視，這一點是我們今年會做的。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:50:43.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:50:50.306000+08:00","text":"好，用案例提醒企業，不得犯這些案例的情況。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:50:50.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:51:06.269000+08:00","text":"不過我今天是要再度提醒勞動部，提醒部長跟司長，其實我們當時訂這個法的第二十八條，開宗明義規定：65歲以上勞工，雇主得以定期勞動契約僱用之。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:51:07.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:51:26.428000+08:00","text":"勞基法的第九條有規定，臨時性、短期性、季節性、特定性的工作得為定期契約，關於臨時、短期、季節及特定性的工作之定義，是規定在該法的施行細則第六條，因為時間的關係我就不再贅述，請部長跟司長詳閱。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:51:26.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:51:34.654000+08:00","text":"我是站在勞基法的精神，其實只有因為特殊的情況才有定期契約，不然都是不定期契約嘛！","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:51:35.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:51:52.709000+08:00","text":"來藉此保障勞工的權益，結果勞動部在中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法中開宗明義就允許這些65歲以上的定期契約，其實無形間也塑造一個社會形象，就是滿65歲不退休的人就只能做這些臨時性的工作。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:51:53.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:52:12.250000+08:00","text":"所以有媒體報導，不少人力銀行都有設置中高齡的專區，然後點進這個網頁裡會發現有不少的工作性質都是兼職的、輪班制、以時薪計算，有的還是半日班等等，就比較屬於次級的工作了，這個部長應該知道吧？","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:52:13.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:52:45.412000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，這個事情我們考慮過，也參考了一些其他國家的案例，的確我們看到很多國家在促進中高齡的工作裡面都會朝向讓他的契約制度更加彈性化的方式，能夠讓中高齡其實出來參與的機會會再更增加，所以這是為什麼我們現在在中高齡及高齡者促進就業法裡面確實是讓他可以用定期契約的方式，就是讓他的彈性可以再多一些這樣子。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:52:46.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:52:49.836000+08:00","text":"我不否認會有高齡者需要這樣的工時班制啦！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:52:50.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:52:52.118000+08:00","text":"但不是所有高齡者都是這樣，對不對？當然。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:52:53.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:53:30.447000+08:00","text":"所以你們勞動部自己有調查，在113年的時候，中高齡及高齡者希望的工作是全部工時正式工作的占比是76.17%，希望做非典型工作的人只有23.83%，這是你們自己的調查，如果以這個調查，你用最快的態度來正視，高齡者不代表他們不行，相反的在這個時代裡面，更應該提供健全的職場，讓高齡者、中高齡者能持續在職場上獲得自信跟成就，而不是說有工作就偷笑嘛！對吧？當然。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:53:32.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:53:40.556000+08:00","text":"所以我要求勞動部1個月內邀集專家學者、勞工團體、高齡者代表，全面檢討中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法的相關配套措施，可以吧？","quality":0.736},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-06-03T13:53:40.556000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:53:43.078000+08:00","text":"是，沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:53:43.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:53:53.606000+08:00","text":"因為日本跟韓國都有高齡者從事次級工作這樣的相關問題，臺灣有時候也可以為全世界之表率，就由部長來帶動，可以啦！","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:53:54.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:53:54.327000+08:00","text":"1個月內。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-06-03T13:53:54.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T13:53:54.347000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T13:53:54.847000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:53:57.418429+08:00","text":"謝謝劉建國委員發言。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T13:53:57.718429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T13:54:00.861286+08:00","text":"接下來請牛煦庭委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}