{"error":false,"id":["169819"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169819,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169819","日期":"2026-06-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-04T10:42:35+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-04T10:52:50+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:15","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1e7ee030b58e6bfecfbfcc74362565af25640d68b749ae8ebca8846782b05a834c7f6e4539bc04505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"10:42:35 - 10:52:50","會議時間":"2026-06-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、運動部部長李洋列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關運動部及所屬單位預算案。\n三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款運動部主管部分預算案。\n四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關運動發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n五、審查115年度行政法人國家運動訓練中心預算案。\n六、審查115年度行政法人國家運動科學中心預算案。\n七、審查114年度及115年度行政法人國家運動產業發展中心預算案。【僅進行詢答；預算提案請於6月11日中午12時前提出】\n八、審查\n(一)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」案。\n(二) 委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」案。\n九、審查\n(一) 委員柯志恩等18人擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員葉元之等19人擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員萬美玲等16人擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(七) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(八) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民體育法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【第八（二）案及第九(八)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【進行詢答及逐條審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"趙執行長士強","start":0.06471875,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.56659375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"趙執行長士強","start":1.56659375,"end":1.66784375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":8.232218750000001,"end":11.35409375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":13.598468750000002,"end":13.969718750000002,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":18.96471875,"end":19.53846875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":19.977218750000002,"end":44.05784375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":44.74971875,"end":60.477218750000006,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":60.76409375,"end":87.02159375000001,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":87.91596875,"end":89.83971875,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":89.90721875,"end":96.18471875,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":95.99909375,"end":116.55284375000001,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":116.67096875000001,"end":119.18534375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":119.38784375,"end":121.24409375,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":121.78409375000001,"end":132.39846875,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":121.90221875,"end":122.47596875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":133.19159375,"end":142.27034375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"趙執行長士強","start":141.52784375000002,"end":142.47284375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":142.74284375000002,"end":152.32784375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"趙執行長士強","start":151.39971875,"end":164.98409375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":164.98409375,"end":181.70721875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"趙執行長士強","start":175.54784375,"end":176.00346875000002,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":181.84221875,"end":222.32534375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":222.47721875000002,"end":238.40721875000003,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":238.84596875000003,"end":239.84159375000002,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":238.89659375000002,"end":286.24784375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":286.41659375,"end":316.85909375,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":316.74096875000004,"end":418.51409375000003,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"趙執行長士強","start":325.83659375,"end":326.24159375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"趙執行長士強","start":327.72659375,"end":328.24971875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":418.68284375,"end":424.65659375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":424.79159375,"end":429.07784375,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":428.41971875,"end":431.42346875000004,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":431.42346875000004,"end":457.88346875,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":457.88346875,"end":482.68971875000005,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":483.07784375000006,"end":486.89159375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":488.59596875000005,"end":500.07096875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":500.25659375000004,"end":505.01534375000006,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":504.15471875000003,"end":508.10346875000005,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":508.59284375000004,"end":513.72284375,"speaker_score":0.987},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":513.0478437500001,"end":525.4340937500001,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":525.50159375,"end":578.50596875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李部長洋","start":578.5903437500001,"end":594.40221875,"speaker_s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資訊好 謝謝抓委我們現在是請我們李洋部長部長"},{"start":18.971,"end":43.815,"text":"部长早安部长早啊我们前阵子国训中心召开了一场临时的董事会当然是主要讨论到国训中心在114年度的时候执行这个成果跟决算报告这个发现是最后收支相比大概实际超支了这个两亿元那请问这样子的一个审查机制到底出了什么样的问题为什么会有两亿元的这个财务的一个缺口"},{"start":45.187,"end":60.285,"text":"各位您報告那首先來講培訓機制這邊確實在國訓去年超支兩億元那我想這是我們一個國訓中心在這個預算的使用上面確實是需要後續好好注意的部分"},{"start":60.825,"end":86.546,"text":"我觉得如果说你的这个超支的钱百分之百是放在这个选走的这个培训上面只要你在决算上面你把它如实的呈现那我想这个完全没有什么问题但是我听说与会的运动部代表竟然是斥责国训中心干嘛开这种会议干嘛专门来讨论这个不是拿石头砸自己的脚吗请问国训来报告这样子两亿的出口到底需不需要去查有这样的事吗"},{"start":88.227,"end":115.022,"text":"跟委員您報告我想這個實際編列如何我想這個運動部跟國訓中心肯定會按照實際如果有超支當然大家一起來去做然後最重要的是目前來說打算是使用提報運發基金特別在115年是透過專案補助的方法來補這個2億元的一個這樣的一個缺口是不是要經過你們運發中心的審查你本身是裡面的召集人那你們收到這樣的一個申請嘛是否會同意來做這個從這個"},{"start":118.285,"end":131.998,"text":"國訓來補這個兩億的缺口對嗎?公委員您報告目前沒有這樣的打算那怎麼辦?這兩億目前當然後續會由國訓中心無論是自籌款的部分還是後續這個在編列預算好好使用的部分來去支應"},{"start":133.251,"end":151.497,"text":"好,我们国训中心的执行长,哇,是我们的微笑George,我以前都在看你打棒球,好,所以一定要口气温和一点,好,怎么样,是,那这个两个如果不用国训中心来补,你们有这个部分,我还是强调,你如果百分之百用在选手的培训上面,我想立法院不会有太大的意见。"},{"start":151.817,"end":152.237,"text":"接下來我們來看一下部長"},{"start":181.997,"end":211.184,"text":"你省了3亿的经费我觉得这个部分我们给予肯定特别是在于有些协会常常出了一些问题但是呢在这个省下3亿当中你有没有错杀这个我们可能就要检讨一下因为我们收到不少协会教练学生反映很多事情要来补助然后目前都是躺在你的办公桌上面那我们实际向你们调阅的省下这3亿的来源大概都是特定的一些的体育团体的补助看的大概1.03但是部长你知道吗"},{"start":211.804,"end":236.896,"text":"最大的苦阻是來自我們中華帕運的這個總會 到底是什麼緣故大概砍了一點 對不對 這到底是什麼緣故 我們的帕運反而是在這一步當中是很大的一個苦阻跟委員您報告 那首先帕總的這一個審查會議三次都是由我主持 那確實在他的編列上面 我們確實都是用一個制度化的編列標準跟帕總好好來協調 那並沒有所謂的賽事卡住的"},{"start":239.137,"end":266.227,"text":"我想帕总大家都知道是我们残障人士里面一个最重要的一个体育的部分我们还是能够给予他很大的一个支持而且你看最多的是我们地方政府大资源院校还有全国性体育团体而且很多的时候主办的这个国际的活动的补助高达1.2亿所以如果说你检讨单项协会我们这样可以理解可是你涉及到这么多地方政府学校跟体育运动公司这个东西的话"},{"start":266.767,"end":285.701,"text":"我觉得你可能需要考量一下因为我们可以调列出来你看这些我们都认为他们还是有其必要需要拿到这笔的经费特别是你看全大运营结束了很多时候我们所挹注大专院校发展特色运动团队很多补助是还没有全部合下来这对很多学校来说是一个非常大的一个负担"},{"start":286.822,"end":309.297,"text":"那師傅讓我說明一下那上述這個社區這個部分如果就我了解的話並非我上述所說到3億這部分那當然您提到的大專發展這個特色的部分的話是今年有所增加所以在主計處跟競技師這邊我們已經正在準備發函給各個大專院校也跟3億沒有關係剛剛講的我一直在"},{"start":310.397,"end":324.724,"text":"強調的這個三億的部分確實大部分都跟協會有所關係並非這個縣市政府我覺得協會如果有些成哥的問題你透過這個預算上面的這個掌控可以給予他們非常大的一個改進的一個空間"},{"start":325.544,"end":353.158,"text":"我觉得这个部分是完全是没有问题的但是我也发现你对这个运动的选手的关爱的确是跟比过去来说是非常多的但是对于一些有关学校资源部分还有一些权责的分工上面特别是运动部跟教育部的这个权责分工上面我觉得很多时候呢选手还是有感叹说现在的资源越来越少这也是我要特别提出来的那你说到这个部分我还是忍不住要提到我一向非常关切有关运动禁药的防治责任"},{"start":353.698,"end":378.668,"text":"这个部分里面来说的话你看我们钱给越来越多但是呢抱怨也是越来越多像我们像重点培训的这个黄金选手计划就有人发现啊他不管在填报不实或措施要紧的这个情况当当中呢我们很担心因为万一有一所有所不查或一点不小心就会丧失选手的这个参赛权那目前来说的话呢我们这里啊不断有很多的选手向我们反映啊"},{"start":379.588,"end":401.389,"text":"过去来说这个基金会他不管在讲习的品质或在资讯的过时或在有一些的错误上面很多线上的测验的平台是流于形式我想部长不少了解不了解这样一个状况不要忘记了在去年线上平台直接大粗包才让我们这个很多的全中运全大运的报名差点开天窗然后很离谱的是"},{"start":401.849,"end":424.487,"text":"每一次选手误出了这个禁药的规定呢基金会都第一个找角色就是把它推给选手选手应该熟知这些角色然后呢要求选手完全理解我说实在的如果全部推给选手那我要你这个基金会要干什么更不要说最近来说的话有非常多你看很多的时候你看他们部长我知道你上次有去也是参加他们的会议嘛对不对"},{"start":426.108,"end":449.02,"text":"運動禁藥會議幾乎都是由我主持然後你覺得呢?他沒有限制他們的權責跟角色嗎?我想這部分運動禁藥基金會確實有精進的空間因為近幾年以運動員來講的話我當時在國訓的話確實也很少上到這樣的課所以我確實在會議上有跟基金會的執行長明確的說明說確實在國訓這邊的選手是否就如同"},{"start":449.4,"end":465.268,"text":"委員您關心的黃金計畫及非黃金計畫這樣的選手頂尖選手是否可以來開課讓他們好好重視是但是呢基金會目前為止都有沒有做出一些積極的一個回應就你來說的話你報告修改前跟報告修改後我們發現"},{"start":466.288,"end":486.705,"text":"他还是把大部分的责任放到运动员的身上运动员当然要负起责任跟角色可是基金会也有权利也有这个义务要来协助运动员了解每一个的场赛的一个规定像你看有个很重要的事情你知道现在备战民国亚运9月19号你知道这次亚运有什么样新增的一项规定吗"},{"start":488.629,"end":507.882,"text":"他就是必須要所有的參賽選手跟教練在現在前就必須要取得ADEL的運動盡管的教育課程的證書目前你掌握我們有多少代表員有拿到這個證書的跟委員您報告這個應該是之前就有是啊那你現在目前為止有多少人掌握到有這樣的證書的有多少"},{"start":509.817,"end":524.917,"text":"他应该在一个时间前拿到这个证书目前来说的话我们得到的一个讯息就是他只发一个文丢一个WADA全英文的课程跟检测的一个网站要求选手跟教练自己上去摸索跟自己去填写"},{"start":525.629,"end":543.699,"text":"拿许多选手反映的点就是网站根本不知道要到哪里上课更不用去做检测这个东西的话就是这个基金会要协助选手一起来去做的啊就你搞得选手每一个人都不知道到底该怎么办那这就是我不断的强调嘛我们给的机会没有问题啊那你拿这些钱你就要做这样的事情啊对不对而且呢"},{"start":544.179,"end":562.132,"text":"就在去年基金会本来是打算新增WADA的这个ADEL的线上课程给选手来用但是呢从116年起全面采用检测的平台的认证的一个机制但是后来也是不了了之啊所以我才说呢我们要全力推动这样子的一个法人化"},{"start":562.612,"end":577.645,"text":"讓你更有制度的來做一個處理我覺得這才是一個未來非常重要的一個方式啊否則我們這邊每次都接到這麼多的一個訊息你也自己去開過會然後呢每次都說我們的選手有什麼不對那我們也變成預算到底有沒有任何精進改進的一個實質的一個作用"},{"start":578.866,"end":600.211,"text":"跟委員報告那首先非常感謝你對靜耀基金會這個非常高度的重視那真的我想靜耀基金會後續應該要再協助運動員跟選手這一塊應該要再更加積極一點那並非所有出了事都是選手所以呢你下次繼續開的會他們的報告當中請你也把會議的報告也看一下如果"},{"start":600.691,"end":612.149,"text":"差别不大那说实在你都已经签字开会差别不大那这个市部长于到哪里去我觉得这个才是很重要的事后的追踪比什么都还要重要好谢谢委员"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:42:44.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:42:46.115000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，請李洋部長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T10:42:46.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:42:46.135000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:42:54.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:42:54.391000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:42:55.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:42:55.292000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:42:56.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:43:18.795000+08:00","text":"前陣子國訓中心召開了一場臨時的董事會，主要是討論國訓中心114年度預算的執行成果跟決算報告，結果最後收支相比發現大概實際超支了2億元，請問這樣子的審查機制到底出了什麼樣的問題，為什麼會有2億元的財務缺口？","quality":0.543},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:43:20.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:43:35.264000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，首先來講，培訓機制這邊確實國訓去年超支2億元，我想這是國訓中心後續在預算的使用上面需要好好注意的部分。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:43:35.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:43:56.082000+08:00","text":"我覺得如果超支的錢百分之百是放在選手的培訓上面，只要在決算上面如實呈現，我想這個完全沒有什麼問題，但是我聽說與會的運動部代表竟然斥責國訓中心幹嘛開這種會議、幹嘛專門討論這個，不是拿石頭砸自己的腳嗎？","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:43:58.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:01.506000+08:00","text":"請問國訓來報告這樣子2億的缺口，到底需不需要去查，有這樣的事嗎？","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:03.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:11.031000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，實際編列如何，我想運動部跟國訓中心肯定會按照實際情形，如果有超支……","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:11.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:24.219000+08:00","text":"當然大家一起去做，最重要的是，目前是打算提報運發基金，特別在115年是透過專案補助的方法來補這2億元的缺口，是不是要經過運發中心的審查？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:24.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:28.321000+08:00","text":"你本身是裡面的召集人，你們有收到這樣的申請嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:29.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:34.446000+08:00","text":"會不會同意國訓來補這2億的缺口，會嗎？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:34.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:36.007000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前沒有這樣的打算。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:36.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:38.490000+08:00","text":"那怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:38.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:46.998000+08:00","text":"這2億後續會由國訓中心無論是用自籌款、還是後續編列預算好好使用來去支應。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:49.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:56.114000+08:00","text":"國訓中心的執行長是我們的微笑George，我以前都在看你打棒球，所以一定要口氣溫和一點。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"趙執行長士強","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:56.114000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:44:59.265000+08:00","text":"柯委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:44:59.265000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:02.416000+08:00","text":"這2億如果不用運發基金來補，你們要怎麼辦？","quality":0.278},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:02.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:06.377000+08:00","text":"我還是強調，你們如果百分之百用在選手的培訓上面，我想立法院不會有太大的意見。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"趙執行長士強","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:06.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:07.377000+08:00","text":"基本上這個超支是當時體育署介紹了非常多的培訓選手到中心，本來預算是大概五百多位選手，但是到最後有大概八百位左右。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:07.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:08.377000+08:00","text":"所以超支的理由是在這個地方？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:08.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:09.377000+08:00","text":"我覺得你們在決算的時候把它講清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"趙執行長士強","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:09.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:10.377000+08:00","text":"會，沒有問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:10.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:11.377000+08:00","text":"但是剩下的這個部分可能就要傷點腦筋了，我們還是表達我們對於選手培訓百分之百的支持，但在預算的缺口上面還是要讓它有所依據，感謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:06.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:46.979000+08:00","text":"接下來，我們來看一下，部長，你省了3億的經費，我覺得這個部分我們是給予肯定，特別是在於有些協會常常出了一些問題，但是在省下的這3億當中，你有沒有錯殺？","quality":0.662},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:47.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:45:56.822000+08:00","text":"這個我們可能就要檢討一下，因為我們收到不少協會、教練、學校反映，很多事情來要補助，然後目前都是躺在你的辦公桌上面。","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:45:57.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:46:06.084000+08:00","text":"我們實際向你們調閱省下這3億的來源，大概都是一些特定體育團體的補助，砍了大概1.03億，但是部長你知道嗎？","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:46:06.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:46:11.346000+08:00","text":"最大的苦主是中華帕運總會，到底是什麼緣故？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:46:13.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:46:16.829000+08:00","text":"到底是因為什麼緣故，帕運在這一波當中反而是一個很大的苦主？","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:46:17.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:46:31.876000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，首先帕總的審查會議3次都是由我主持，在它的編列上面，我們確實都是用制度化的編列標準跟帕總好好來協調，並沒有所謂賽事卡住的狀況發生。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:46:34.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:46:52.204000+08:00","text":"大家都知道帕總是我們殘障人士一個最重要的體育團體，我們還是希望能夠給予很大的支持，而且你們砍最多的是地方政府、大專院校，還有全國性體育團體，主辦國際活動的補助高達1.2億。","quality":0.603},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:46:53.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:47:20.321000+08:00","text":"如果你們檢討單項協會，我們可以理解，可是涉及到這麼多地方政府、學校跟體育運動公司，這個我覺得你可能需要考量一下，因為我們可以條列出來，你看一下簡報，這些我們都認為他們還是需要拿到這筆經費，特別是全大運已經結束了，但你們挹注大專院校發展特色運動團隊的補助還沒有全部核下來，這對很多學校來說是一個非常大的負擔。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:47:22.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:47:22.963000+08:00","text":"委員，是否讓我說明一下？好。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:47:25.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:47:43.516000+08:00","text":"簡報上社區這個部分，就我了解，並非上述所說到的3億這個部分，當然您提到的大專發展特色運動團隊的部分，是今年有所增加，所以我們主計處跟競技司這邊已經在準備發函給各個大專院校，也跟3億沒有關係。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:47:43.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:47:51.680000+08:00","text":"剛剛講的，我一直在強調的這3億的部分，確實大部分都跟協會有關係，並非縣市政府。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:47:51.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:48:02.685000+08:00","text":"我覺得協會如果有些沉痾的問題，透過預算上面的掌控，可以給予他們非常大的改進空間，我覺得這個部分是完全沒有問題的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:48:02.685000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:48:03.685000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:48:03.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:48:22.255000+08:00","text":"我也發現你對運動選手的關愛的確比起過去多非常多，但是對於學校資源部分以及權責分工上面，特別是運動部跟教育部的權責分工上面，我覺得很多時候選手還是會感嘆現在的資源越來越少，這也是我要特別提出來的。","quality":0.598},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:48:23.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:48:33.900000+08:00","text":"說到這個部分，我還是忍不住要提到，我一向非常關切運動禁藥的防制責任，你看，我們錢給得越來越多，但是抱怨也是越來越多。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:48:34.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:48:48.126000+08:00","text":"像我們現在重點培訓的黃金選手計畫，就有人發現，不管是在填報不實或錯失藥檢的情況當中，我們很擔心萬一有所不察或一點不小心，就會喪失選手的參賽權。","quality":0.53},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:48:49.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:05.979000+08:00","text":"以目前來說，不斷有選手向我們反映，過去基金會不管在講習的品質、資訊的過時或在有些錯誤上面，很多線上的測驗平臺流於形式，部長不曉得了不了解這樣的狀況？","quality":0.574},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:07.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:14.607000+08:00","text":"不要忘記了，去年線上平臺直接大出包，還讓很多全中運、全大運的報名差點開天窗。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:15.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:26.336000+08:00","text":"然後很離譜的是，每一次選手誤觸禁藥的規定，基金會第一個角色就是把它推給選手，覺得選手就應該要熟知這些規定，要求選手完全理解。","quality":0.596},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:27.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:30.720000+08:00","text":"說實在的，如果全部推給選手，那我要你這個基金會幹什麼？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:31.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:39.427000+08:00","text":"更不要說最近有非常多……部長，我知道你上次也有去參加他們的會議嘛，對不對？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:41.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:43.149000+08:00","text":"運動禁藥的會議幾乎都是由我主持。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:43.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:44.009000+08:00","text":"然後你覺得呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:44.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:49:46.431000+08:00","text":"他們有善盡他們的權責跟角色嗎？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:49:46.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:12.524000+08:00","text":"我想這部分運動禁藥基金會確實有精進的空間，因為近幾年以運動員來講，我當時在國訓的時候，也很少上到這樣的課，所以我在會議上有跟基金會執行長明確地說明，在國訓這邊的選手，就如同委員您關心的黃金計畫及非黃金計畫這樣的頂尖選手，是否可以來開課，讓他們好好重視……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:12.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:17.106000+08:00","text":"是，但是基金會目前為止到底有沒有做出一些積極的回應？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:17.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:24.531000+08:00","text":"就你們來說，他們的報告不管是修改前或修改後，我們發現還是把大部分的責任放到運動員的身上。","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:25.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:33.378000+08:00","text":"運動員當然要負起責任跟角色，可是基金會也有權利、也有義務要協助運動員去了解每一個場賽的規定。","quality":0.558},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:34.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:41.545000+08:00","text":"你看，有一個很重要的事情，現在在備戰9月19日開幕的名古屋亞運，你知道這次亞運有新增什麼規定嗎？","quality":0.415},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:43.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:51.934000+08:00","text":"就是所有的參賽選手跟教練在賽前就必須取得ADEL運動禁藥管制教育課程證書。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:51.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:54.896000+08:00","text":"就你的掌握，目前我們有多少人拿到這個證書？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:55.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:50:58.839000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個應該是之前就有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:50:59.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:02.441000+08:00","text":"是啊，就你的掌握，目前為止多少人有這樣的證書？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:02.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:02.862000+08:00","text":"有多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:04.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:07.060000+08:00","text":"他應該是在一個時間點前拿到這個證書就……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:08.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:19.577000+08:00","text":"目前來說，我們得到的訊息就是，它只發了一個文，丟一個WADA全英文的課程跟檢測的網站，要求選手跟教練自己上去摸索跟填寫。","quality":0.691},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:21.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:29.194000+08:00","text":"許多選手反映，點進去網站後，根本不知道要到哪裡上課，更不用說要去做檢測，這個東西就是基金會要協助選手一起去做的啊！","quality":0.635},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:29.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:31.475000+08:00","text":"結果它搞得每一個選手都不曉得到底該怎麼辦。","quality":0.45},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:32.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:37.118000+08:00","text":"這就是我不斷在強調的，我們給的經費沒有問題，它拿這些錢就要做這樣的事情啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:37.118000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:38.419000+08:00","text":"對不對？對。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:38.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:51:53.049000+08:00","text":"而且就在去年，基金會本來是打算新增WADA的ADEL線上課程給選手來用，從116年起全面採用檢測平臺的認證機制，但是後來也是不了了之。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:51:53.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:52:12.625000+08:00","text":"所以我才說，我們要全力推動這樣的法人化，讓你更有制度來做處理，我覺得這才是未來非常重要的方式，否則我們每次都接到這麼多訊息，你也自己也去開過會，然後基金會每次都說我們的選手有什麼不對，我們也編了預算，到底有沒有任何精進、改進的實質作用？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:52:13.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:52:28.889000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，首先非常感謝你對禁藥基金會非常高度的重視，真的，我想禁藥基金會後續在協助運動員跟選手這一塊應該要再更積極一點，並非所有出了事都是選手要……","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:52:29.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:52:40.578000+08:00","text":"所以你下次自己去開會時，對於他們的報告，請你也把會議的報告看一下，如果差別不大，說實在的，你都已經親自去開會了，差別又不大，那他們是視部長於何處？","quality":0.477},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-06-04T10:52:42.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:52:45.145000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個才是很重要的，事後的追蹤比什麼都還要重要。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-04T10:52:46.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:52:47.008000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T10:52:47.508000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:52:49.508000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的詢答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T10:52:49.808000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:52:52.379429+08:00","text":"下一位請陳培瑜委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}