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謝謝主席 又請交通部陳部長好 請陳部長高鐵石澤董事長 軌道局楊局長請楊局長"},{"start":14.69,"end":34.082,"text":"委員好部長 這個我們交通委員會韓部長大概是525受害者聯盟我就在從桃園出發因為每一天都算好時間坐高鐵所以那一天其實我可以體會到在現場所有人"},{"start":35.723,"end":56.193,"text":"剛剛林俊賢委員講的 完全沒有什麼耗子只有delay 61分鐘然後一堆人擠在那裡就是你的備援體系 這等一下再談它到底的訊息在哪裡你可以去做台鐵 因為台鐵增加了幾班你可以去做高速公路 因為在哪裡它增加了幾班其實是完全沒有這個訊息的那我首先"},{"start":57.796,"end":79.448,"text":"那天的情況因為很多委員已經講了這個轉折器控制機箱裡面再換那個電池電源的一個模組那發生了這樣一個問題那請教一下這個目前現在鐵道局剛剛我看局長那個報告碼目前鐵道局跟高鐵公司還有原廠"},{"start":80.789,"end":95.439,"text":"三個加第四個第三方公正單位剛剛我也聽說了第三方公正單位你們找了兩個嘛第一個是鐵研中心第二個是高科大軌道研究中心那兩個分工是什麼講一下設備會發行啊"},{"start":100.153,"end":118.128,"text":"跟委員報告設備目前是在高鐵同時進行查封封條證據我知道嘛你會第三方驗證的時候設備是放在高科大還是體驗中心不知道設備是在高鐵設備就會放在高鐵"},{"start":120.58,"end":142.877,"text":"放在高鐵所以大家來就是手摸摸帶著備來儀器鐵研中心有這麼多一個設備或者相關的一些巨型的設備要檢查的設備很多都大型的設備你要真的檢查說兩人空手來帶個電腦帶個隨手的設備就可以去檢查到的話我告訴你當天你的工班"},{"start":143.973,"end":167.465,"text":"可能比他們對你們這個機械更專業我覺得這個鐵人中心部長是我覺得到底是幾方啊其實你們剛剛早上一直在講第三方公正單位我就想說這個很重要結果一聽到鐵人中心我真的是嚇了三跳鐵人中心的董事長是誰啊石董你說一下鐵人中心的董事長是誰黃雲貴吳雲貴是我們剛卸任的交通部的司長"},{"start":174.178,"end":190.807,"text":"他的執行長是誰陳文德陳文德是我們鐵道局剛卸任的副局長我沒講錯吧施董事長請問一下你自己是鐵人中心的什麼職務我是董事董事嘛"},{"start":194.181,"end":216.092,"text":"楊局長你也是董事 就不要講了 全部都交通部底下了包括了吳同明司長 你是監事 請問一下在玩什麼你們在搞什麼 第三方公正單位 鐵研中心 坦白講我不否認他有一定的專業 可以這樣搞 我坦白講不光是 我想說沒有啊 還好你還有一個高科大"},{"start":216.952,"end":230.66,"text":"不然這什麼叫第三方啊都自己人左手交右手啊你鐵道局跟著鐵人中心我們三方幾方結果你又是鐵道局局長你又是鐵人中心董事你們都一群人我覺得你們這樣的"},{"start":234.354,"end":259.422,"text":"讓大家公清力會有問題所以我是覺得這個事情請部長要了解一下我們第三方這個整個驗證我們不希望是一套人分在兩邊那你這樣的最後的結果被加之一像委員報告不只是鐵岩中心我們還會再加高科大所以所謂的第三方不是只有一個第三方有兩個第三方所以兩邊都去驗證跟委員報告所以這個部分可以放心我們希望"},{"start":260.402,"end":280.199,"text":"真的這個部分要非常客觀公正專業的第三方驗證這是我們期待的嘛我相信你們也是嘛可以做到吧可以做到 跟委員報告設備當然是以留在高鐵來進行查驗為優先設備如果要離開高鐵比如說到日本原廠或者是到其他地方當然他都必須經過一個審慎的決策"},{"start":282.455,"end":308.063,"text":"好 那剛剛因為有一些部長已經解釋過了是遭到攻擊還是耗資異常解釋過了我就不再重問了那平常講那天你們也很努力在搶修尤其第一線的工作人員如果說我們說他們都什麼沒做事我覺得這不公平的我們也知道你們很努力很努力想要把他去搶修好這一點是一點都沒問題所以我也是謝謝我們工作人員的努力"},{"start":308.763,"end":328.977,"text":"那我先請教一下目前是四個電源模組電源模組把它保存下來嘛是不是這樣當天所有更換下來的設備都保存下來不只四個電源模組總共有八個單元好除了電源模組是新的要更新的因為剛剛總經理特別說因為在修電源模組的時候"},{"start":329.937,"end":357.826,"text":"整個的控制機箱裡面還有一些可能需要更換的你們也帶了備品去換嘛所以這整個的都要去做一個處理那那一天在整個搶修的一個過程中那日本的一個原廠它是有有沒有這個技師或者相關人員在場支援呢是有的所以在場支援連和你們的人員都沒有辦法處理是那這個部分我是希望能不能給個時間"},{"start":359.646,"end":368.733,"text":"你們替翻張驗證結果出來結果出來你們接下來百分之八十的嘛剩下百分之二十是不是要繼續換"},{"start":370.604,"end":400.144,"text":"還是要等到驗證出來確定不是這個問題是哪個問題之後才可以繼續做現在的做法是怎麼樣好 謝謝委員我想目前我們當然還沒有得到這個最終的期程但是我有要求是必須要有期程不能無限制的等待但這個期程我們希望由原廠跟第三方共同來提出所以會有提成有提成以後我們會特別跟委員報告這是第一個第二個能夠有初步把一些問題釐清之後我想我們應該要盡快恢復更新的過程"},{"start":400.384,"end":416.557,"text":"所以要快要真的要釐清然後你才有辦法去做下一步這個是不是可以繼續換我覺得這個速度要快那這個請教部長部長那天我們都是受害者聯盟可是你那天請問一下你們是幾點通知我們陳部長"},{"start":420.12,"end":436.008,"text":"部長你是幾點知道應該第一時間有通知交通部應該第一時間有通知交通部但是要會延誤多久其實我在搭車的前一刻還不曉得延誤多久大概知道會延誤但不曉得有多久這就是我覺得一個"},{"start":437.488,"end":454.573,"text":"蠻大的問題啊剛剛特別談到風險管控風險管控就是我們對於風險會發生這樣的一個情況我們是要是高估還是低估其實就是要我們覺得要專業的一個判讀要專業的判讀那尤其部長甚至有時候"},{"start":455.313,"end":470.844,"text":"很嚴重的問題行政院長都要知道啊他知道的你不要給他這樣我們什麼東西壞了你本來就應該要把正確相對的判讀資訊給他如果他知道像我呢到最後可能延一個小時以上快兩個小時都有這種情況像"},{"start":473.065,"end":487.996,"text":"這個台中過來你也做兩個小時嘛那我是沒辦法我是投降了我是走還好我也走季節啦慢慢突突突突到台北來每一個人都想辦法去解決這個問題可是我覺得部長因為他可以跨單位的要去處理很多的問題"},{"start":488.897,"end":512.17,"text":"如果你們真的沒有辦法判讀那我就覺得是不是就像總經理你們在解讀這樣的一個故障每個小時派三班會延誤多少你們是覺得把它估得太輕鬆了如果你是把它正確就知道會一兩個小時這時候如果部長知道他在第一時間就會不管是國道客運"},{"start":513.391,"end":528.586,"text":"不管是我們台鐵公司他在很早的時候不像台鐵公司不問他說十點才開始配合十點左右才開始配合那這個的部分部長沒有得到正確的信息所以他上了高鐵如果你跟他講說有可能會延誤一兩個小時"},{"start":529.727,"end":552.817,"text":"搞不好部長會自己開車所以我覺得這個訊息的準確度對於決策者是非常重要那我要拜託部長那未來跟我們的高鐵或者台鐵都一樣發生這樣的一個重大的一個大霧點的時候我覺得第一時間要誠實甚至要寬鬆的去估就是說真的可能會最嚴重是如何好不好那再來就是當天"},{"start":554.317,"end":580.469,"text":"我們發覺高鐵站你要接駁很多其實每個站都不一樣每個站都不一樣有些跟火車站連在一起他有選擇有些跟火車站有距離他沒辦法這時候你要有接駁車甚至這個比較中部與北的是不是用國道客運直接來帶他看停止站去跑都有可能那我在這裡是拜託部長在地方政府的集結那一天我"},{"start":581.829,"end":605.762,"text":"像桃園站季節就在旁邊啊但沒有辦法他完全沒有接到任何應變的指示如果他就在同一站他如果那一天他最終在台北火車站他板橋站沒辦法停所以未來是不是就桃園這個角度每個站不同的解決的策略桃園站我們是不是能夠協調季節能夠"},{"start":608.743,"end":623.794,"text":"桃園他18站到台北他至少上下班時間他能夠跑一班或者兩班這個部分可不可以曹督官來做謝謝委員的這個指示啦我覺得這個部分相當好我們未來會來做"},{"start":624.674,"end":648.535,"text":"那也跟委員報告當天早上我其實九點多還在車子裡面的時候八點多在車子裡面的時候我就已經打電話請台鐵公司準備所以他們十點才有辦法馬上增加這個運具聯防的部分那委員剛剛所提到的加派這個接駁車的部分也確實我在當天開緊急應變會議的時候因為我們不確定隔天能夠修得好所以隔天的部分我們確實也有針對桃園到台北或者是新竹到台北"},{"start":648.895,"end":670.893,"text":"透過國道客運該怎麼樣接駁的部分我們也有做出了計畫那委員現在在指示的就是說機場捷運的部分我們也有討論過不過機場捷運因為它的那個量能已經非常緊繃了那所以我們也會把它放在最後該使用的時候我們還是會使用上跟委員報告其實一個小時加一班我覺得是絕對有可能去協調的好不好這個部分要預備啦"},{"start":672.694,"end":695.819,"text":"真的我們不希望發生這樣的一個事情嘛但是發生了那這件事情對台鐵的經驗也是說你們要料題重寬還是重演我覺得要很真實的你們在現在事情發生了回推為什麼會演一兩個小時你們自己要回推作為你們經驗累積非重要非常重要的部分再來我希望高鐵公司的董總我真的是要"},{"start":697.189,"end":716.418,"text":"請你們在整個風險管理跟內部管理真的我覺得要多花一點精神尤其像風險管理這個問題這是很嚴重的525一件事去年12月我們跟你要資料去年11月你們也是一樣在你們那個叫監控平台那個叫什麼"},{"start":717.759,"end":745.508,"text":"那個叫什麼行控中心那個行控中心去年12月也是因為更換軟體設備而一個不小心也弄了一些事情所以我覺得在整個風險管理是要能夠用心的那最後我也跟石董事長當然您使者你有你的哲學但我覺得不要讓人家感覺不要讓人家感覺就是小事我們高調露臉"},{"start":747.188,"end":768.714,"text":"大事的時候我們低調 神隱這一次給很多人感覺就是這樣我們看到你去日本不管自費 花幾百我們通通都不管廁所照一張相回來我知道因為你是學文的學文化的學行銷的我懂你看到這個機會為高鐵公司整體行銷聽起來也沒有錯可是一次"},{"start":770.075,"end":777.55,"text":"噴漆 去一次座椅 設備 去一次可能你這樣的搞法 這樣的積極程度發生這麼大的事情的時候"},{"start":778.53,"end":804.991,"text":"你們只是發新聞稿我覺得這個部分跟民眾的期待是不一樣的畢竟整個高鐵看得到的這個車廂好棒我知道大家都懂我們要看得到的光鮮亮麗民眾也看得到可是問題有很多看不到的基礎的一個建設我是這邊拜託我們的部長跟我們高鐵台鐵大家真的要努力把風險管理做好謝謝我們會深刻檢討 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":807.885,"end":808.111,"text":"好 謝謝羅文哲"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:57:06.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:57:08.178000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請交通部陳部長。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T09:57:08.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:57:08.478000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:57:08.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:57:09.499000+08:00","text":"請高鐵史哲董事長和鐵道局楊局長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T09:57:09.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:57:09.519000+08:00","text":"請史董事長、楊局長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T09:57:19.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:57:19.890000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:57:20.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:57:52.229000+08:00","text":"部長，我們交通委員會包含部長大概都是525受害者聯盟，我從桃園出發，因為每一天都算好時間坐高鐵，所以那一天我可以體會到現場所有人……剛剛林俊憲委員講，完全沒有什麼訊息，只有寫delay 61分鐘，然後一堆人擠在那裡，就是你的備援體系到底訊息在哪裡？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:57:52.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:57:59.452000+08:00","text":"例如告訴乘客可以去坐臺鐵，因為臺鐵增加了幾班；你可以去坐高速公路，因為哪裡增加了幾班，但是完全沒有這個訊息，這個等一下再談。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:58:01.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:58:40.059000+08:00","text":"首先，那天的情況很多委員已經講了，轉轍器控制機箱在換電池、電源模組，結果發生了這樣一個問題，我就請教一下，剛剛我看鐵道局局長在報告，目前鐵道局、高鐵公司和原廠，再加上第四個第三方公正單位，剛剛我也聽說了你們找了兩個第三方公正單位，第一個是鐵研中心，第二個是高科大軌道研究中心，請問這兩個機構的分工是什麼？","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:58:40.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:58:40.259000+08:00","text":"講一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:58:40.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:58:40.399000+08:00","text":"設備會放在誰那兒？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:58:45.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:58:50.318000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，設備目前是在高鐵，同時進行查封、證據保全。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:58:50.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:58:56.383000+08:00","text":"我知道，第三方驗證的時候，設備是放在高科大還是鐵研中心？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:58:58.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:58:59.185000+08:00","text":"不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:00.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:07.241000+08:00","text":"設備就會放在高鐵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:07.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:25.676000+08:00","text":"所以大家來就是手摸摸，帶著背來的儀器，鐵研中心有這麼多的設備，很多檢查設備都是大型的設備，真的要檢查的話，難道空手來，帶個電腦、帶個隨手的設備就可以檢查？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:26.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:31.594000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，當天你的工班可能比他們對這個機械更專業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:33.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:37.417000+08:00","text":"請問部長，鐵研中心到底是第幾方啊？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:38.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:49.043000+08:00","text":"你們早上一直在講第三方公正單位，我就想說這個很重要，結果我一聽到鐵研中心，真的是嚇了三跳，鐵研中心的董事長是誰？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:50.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:50.784000+08:00","text":"史董，你說一下。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:52.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:52.105000+08:00","text":"黃運貴。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:52.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T09:59:52.465000+08:00","text":"黃運貴是剛卸任的交通部的司長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T09:59:59.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:01.759000+08:00","text":"該中心的執行長是誰？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:01.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:02.240000+08:00","text":"陳文德。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:02.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:07.362000+08:00","text":"陳文德是鐵道局剛卸任的副局長，我沒講錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:09.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:13.306000+08:00","text":"史董事長，請問一下，你自己在鐵研中心擔任什麼職務？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:13.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:14.846000+08:00","text":"我是董事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:19.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:29.506000+08:00","text":"楊局長，你也是董事，就不要講了，因為全部都是交通部底下的人，包括了吳東凌司長，你是監事，請問這在玩什麼？","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:29.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:30.727000+08:00","text":"你們在搞什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:30.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:00:43.513000+08:00","text":"第三方公正單位──鐵研中心，我不否認它有一定的專業，但是這樣搞，坦白講不光是……還好還有一個高科大，不然這叫什麼第三方啊？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:00:44.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:01:00.895000+08:00","text":"都是自己人，左手交右手，鐵道局跟著鐵研中心，結果鐵道局局長又是鐵研中心董事，你們都是同一群人，我覺得你們這樣，公信力會有問題喔！","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:01:00.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:01:11.158000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得這個事情，請部長要了解一下，我們不希望第三方驗證是一套人分成兩邊，這樣最後的結果會被人家質疑……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:01:12.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:01:23.822000+08:00","text":"是，向委員報告，不只是鐵研中心，我們還會再加高科大，所以所謂的第三方不是只有一個第三方，而是有兩個第三方，兩邊都去驗證，這個部分可以放心。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:01:23.822000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:01:24.822000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:01:23.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:01:33.729000+08:00","text":"我們希望這個部分一定要非常客觀、公正、專業的第三方驗證，這是我們期待的，我相信你們也是，可以做到吧？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:01:34.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:01:45.179000+08:00","text":"可以做到，跟委員報告，設備當然是以留在高鐵來進行查驗為優先，設備如果要離開高鐵，比如到日本原廠，或者是到其他地方，當然都必須經過一個審慎的決策。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:01:47.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:02:13.043000+08:00","text":"好，剛剛有一些問題，部長已經解釋過了，是遭到攻擊還是號誌異常，你解釋過，我就不再重複問，憑良心講那天你們也很努力在搶修，尤其是第一線的工作人員，如果我們說他們沒做事或怎樣，我覺得這不公平，我們也知道你們很努力的想要把它搶修好，這一點一點都沒問題啦，所以我也謝謝工作人員的努力。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:02:13.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:02:22.929000+08:00","text":"我現在想請教一下，目前4個電源模組都有保存下來，是不是這樣？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:02:22.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:02:27.452000+08:00","text":"當天所有更換下來的設備都有保存下來，不只4個電源模組，總共有8個單元。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:02:27.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:02:53.663000+08:00","text":"好，除了電源模組是要更新的，因為剛剛總經理特別說，在修電源模組的時候，整個控制機箱裡面還有一些需要更換的，你們也帶著備品去換，所以是整個都要處理，那天在整個搶修過程中，日本原廠有沒有技師或相關人員在場支援呢？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:02:54.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:02:54.823000+08:00","text":"是有的，有單位。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:02:55.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:02:59.525000+08:00","text":"所以在場支援加上你們的人員都沒有辦法處理？是。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:01.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:02.826000+08:00","text":"好，這個部分能不能給個時間？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:04.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:13.733000+08:00","text":"你們第三方驗證結果出來，接下來因為已經完成80%了，剩下20%是不是要繼續換？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:15.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:20.768000+08:00","text":"還是要等到驗證出來確定不是這個問題之後才繼續做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:21.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:22.849000+08:00","text":"現在的做法是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:22.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:39.220000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員，目前我們當然還沒有得到最終的期程，但是我有要求必須要有期程，不能無限制的等待，這個期程我們希望由原廠跟第三方共同來提出，所以會有期程，有期程以後，我們也會特別跟委員報告，這是第一個。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:39.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:45.124000+08:00","text":"第二個，如果能夠初步把一些問題釐清之後，我想我們應該要儘快恢復更新的過程。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:45.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:45.704000+08:00","text":"所以要快！","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:46.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:03:52.570000+08:00","text":"真的要釐清，然後你才有辦法去做下一步，是不是可以繼續換，我覺得這個速度要快。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:03:54.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:04:01.557000+08:00","text":"部長，那天我們都是受害者聯盟，請問一下你們是幾點通知陳部長的？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:04:05.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:04:06.141000+08:00","text":"部長，你是幾點知道的？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:04:06.141000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:04:09.222000+08:00","text":"你有沒有接到……","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:04:09.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:04:18.987000+08:00","text":"應該第一時間有通知交通部，但是會延誤多久，其實我在搭車的前一刻還不曉得會延誤多久，大概知道會延誤，但不曉得有多久。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:04:20.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:04:33.311000+08:00","text":"好，這就是我覺得有一個滿大的問題，剛剛特別談到風險管控，就是我們對於會發生這樣一個情況，是要高估還是低估？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:04:33.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:04:39.233000+08:00","text":"其實就是要專業的判讀，尤其部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:04:39.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:04:42.114000+08:00","text":"甚至有時候很嚴重的問題，行政院院長都要知道啊！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:04:42.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:05:08.393000+08:00","text":"他知道了，你不要跟他講像什麼東西壞了，你本來就應該要把正確的判讀資訊給他，如果他知道了，最後可能延一個小時以上、快兩個小時，都有可能，像你從臺中過來也坐了兩個小時，我是沒辦法，我就投降了，我搭機捷，慢慢前進到臺北來，每一個人都想辦法解決這個問題。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:05:08.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:05:55.988000+08:00","text":"可是部長，因為他可以跨單位地去處理很多的問題，如果你們真的沒有辦法判讀，那我覺得，就像總經理，你們在解讀這樣的故障，每個小時派3班，會延誤多久，你們把它估得太輕鬆了，如果你是正確知道要一、兩個小時，這時候如果部長知道，在第一時間，不管是國道客運，不管是臺鐵公司，他在很早的時候，不像臺鐵公司都不問……他10點左右才開始配合，而這個部分部長沒有得到正確的訊息，所以他上了高鐵，如果你跟他講有可能會延誤一、兩個小時，搞不好部長會自己開車。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:05:55.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:05:59.969000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得，訊息的準確度對於決策者是非常的重要。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:06:00.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:06:15.616000+08:00","text":"我要拜託部長，未來高鐵或者臺鐵都一樣，發生這樣一個重大的大誤點的時候，我覺得第一時間要誠實，甚至要寬鬆地去估，就是真的可能最嚴重的會是如何，好不好？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:06:16.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:06:30.322000+08:00","text":"再來，當天我們發覺，高鐵站要接駁……其實每個站都不一樣，有些跟火車站連在一起的他有選擇，有些跟火車站有距離的他就沒辦法，這時候你要有接駁車。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:06:30.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:07:08.801000+08:00","text":"甚至中部以北的是不是用國道客運直接帶他，看是停幾站這樣去跑也都有可能，我在這裡是拜託部長，像桃園站機捷就在旁邊，但沒有辦法、他完全沒有接到任何應變的指示，如果他就在同一站、如果那一天他最終站在臺北火車站，因為在板橋站沒辦法停，所以未來是不是就桃園這個角度，每個站有不同的解決策略？","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:07:09.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:07:24.410000+08:00","text":"桃園站我們是不是協調機捷，桃園A18站到臺北，至少上下班時間它能夠跑一班或者兩班，可不可以朝這個方向做？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:07:24.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:07:28.773000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指示，我覺得這個部分相當好，我們未來會做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:07:29.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:07:40.864000+08:00","text":"也跟委員報告，當天早上我其實八點多還在車子裡面的時候，我就已經打電話請臺鐵公司整備，所以他們10點才有辦法馬上增加運具聯防的部分。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:07:41.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:07:58.058000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛所提到的加派接駁車部分，我當天開緊急應變會議的時候，因為我們不確定隔天能夠修得好，所以隔天的部分我們確實也有針對桃園到臺北，或者是新竹到臺北，透過國道客運該怎麼樣接駁的部分做出了計畫。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:07:58.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:11.289000+08:00","text":"而委員現在指示機場捷運的部分我們也討論過，不過因為機場捷運的量能已經非常緊繃了，所以我們把它放在最後該使用的時候還是會使用，跟委員報告。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:11.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:15.713000+08:00","text":"其實一個小時加一班，我覺得是絕對有可能去協調的，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:15.713000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:16.713000+08:00","text":"這做得到。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:15.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:15.873000+08:00","text":"這個部分要預備。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:15.873000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:17.694000+08:00","text":"這個我們來做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:17.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:25.496000+08:00","text":"真的，我們不希望發生這樣的一個事情，但是發生了，這件事情對臺鐵而言的經驗也在於，你們要料敵從寬還是從嚴？","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:26.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:37.578000+08:00","text":"我覺得要很真實地……現在事情發生了，為什麼會延一、兩個小時，你們自己要回推，做為你們經驗累積非常重要的部分。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:38.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:08:53.134000+08:00","text":"再來，高鐵公司的董總，我要請你們在整個風險管理跟內部管理上，真的要多花一點精神，尤其像風險管理的問題，像525這件事是很嚴重的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:08:54.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:09:03.919000+08:00","text":"去年12月我們跟你要資料，去年12月你們也是一樣，你們那個叫做監控平臺還是什麼？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:09:03.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:09:04.520000+08:00","text":"行控中心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:09:06.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:09:18.844000+08:00","text":"行控中心，去年12月也是因為更換軟體設備，一個不小心也弄了一些事情出來，所以我覺得在整個風險管理要能夠用心。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:09:19.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:09:37.229000+08:00","text":"最後我也跟史董事長說，當然史哲有您的哲學，但我覺得不要讓人家感覺就是小事你們高調露臉，大事的時候你們低調神隱，這一次給很多人的感覺就是這樣。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:09:37.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:09:53.194000+08:00","text":"我們看到你去日本，不管是機票錢自費，我們通通都不管，到廁所照一張相回來，我知道因為你是學文的、學文化的、學行銷的，我懂你看到這個機會就為高鐵公司整體行銷，聽起來也沒有錯。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:09:53.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:09.054000+08:00","text":"可是就噴漆部分去一次、就座椅設備又去一次，你這樣的搞法、積極的程度，發生這麼大事情的時候你們只是發新聞稿，我覺得這個部分跟民眾的期待是不一樣的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:09.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:12.697000+08:00","text":"畢竟，就整個高鐵看得到的車廂好棒！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:13.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:21.384000+08:00","text":"我知道，大家都懂，我們要看得到的部分光鮮亮麗，民眾也看得到，可是問題是也有很多看不到的基礎建設。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:21.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:29.510000+08:00","text":"我在這邊拜託部長跟高鐵、臺鐵，大家真的要努力把風險管理做好，謝謝。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"史董事長哲","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:29.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:29.971000+08:00","text":"我們會深刻檢討，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:29.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:29.991000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:33.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:33.090000+08:00","text":"謝謝魯明哲委員。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:33.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:36.161429+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，謝謝董事長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T10:10:36.461429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T10:10:39.604286+08:00","text":"接下來請徐富癸委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}