{"error":false,"id":["169840"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169840,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169840","日期":"2026-06-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-23-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-04T11:57:26+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-04T12:09:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1e7ee030b58e6bfe8ab3be84705d4aa38ee7e0de9923b3dc704f71fce9d4a756bdd561b1fcf353985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:57:26 - 12:09:55","會議時間":"2026-06-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長、交通部鐵道局局長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長就「5月25日高鐵班次嚴重誤點事件」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":3.10221875,"end":5.262218750000001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":5.56596875,"end":6.105968750000001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":6.27471875,"end":7.21971875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":8.485343750000002,"end":9.329093750000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":9.329093750000002,"end":9.34596875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":13.800968750000003,"end":32.09346875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":32.61659375,"end":107.13659375,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":107.23784375000001,"end":112.03034375,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":112.30034375000001,"end":115.20284375000001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":115.40534375,"end":123.58971875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":123.84284375000001,"end":128.39909375000002,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":126.22221875000001,"end":126.82971875000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":129.04034375,"end":143.83971875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":143.29971875,"end":147.99096875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":144.46409375000002,"end":145.96596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":146.82659375,"end":146.99534375000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":147.28221875,"end":155.31471875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":149.66159375,"end":149.98221875000002,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":155.71971875,"end":169.00034375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":169.38846875000002,"end":174.40034375000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":174.40034375000002,"end":209.46659375000002,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":197.28284375,"end":197.63721875000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":201.45096875000002,"end":201.56909375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":209.75346875000002,"end":213.68534375000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":213.87096875,"end":225.32909375000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":225.39659375000002,"end":229.15971875000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":229.51409375,"end":230.88096875000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":230.96534375000002,"end":236.60159375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":237.05721875,"end":237.29346875000002,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":237.29346875000002,"end":237.36096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":237.36096875,"end":253.13909375000003,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":237.58034375000003,"end":238.06971875000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":253.13909375000003,"end":253.15596875000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":253.27409375000002,"end":257.61096875000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":257.66159375,"end":258.28596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":258.28596875,"end":317.29784375,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":266.75721875,"end":268.81596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":317.61846875000003,"end":319.66034375000004,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":320.08221875000004,"end":322.34346875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":322.68096875000003,"end":323.57534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":323.37284375,"end":335.60721875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":336.09659375,"end":349.27596875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":337.76721875000004,"end":339.42096875000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":340.24784375,"end":340.90596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":342.76221875000005,"end":342.91409375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":345.36096875000004,"end":345.37784375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":349.59659375,"end":374.21721875000003,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":351.43596875000003,"end":351.75659375000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":351.99284375,"end":352.60034375000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":360.02534375000005,"end":361.15596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":362.42159375,"end":366.43784375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":370.94346875,"end":372.59721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":373.81221875,"end":375.04409375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":375.04409375,"end":380.20784375000005,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":380.93346875000003,"end":384.64596875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":384.83159375,"end":398.11221875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":386.73846875000004,"end":390.26534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":392.18909375000004,"end":392.98221875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":395.36159375,"end":399.61409375000005,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":398.97284375000004,"end":399.69846875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":399.69846875,"end":399.78284375000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":399.78284375000004,"end":399.81659375000004,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":399.81659375000004,"end":399.85034375000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":399.85034375000004,"end":426.76596875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":401.03159375,"end":404.13659375000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":405.45284375,"end":408.00096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":427.03596875000005,"end":427.74471875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":427.47471875,"end":450.49221875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":436.70534375000005,"end":437.38034375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":451.18409375000005,"end":473.34096875000006,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":451.84221875000003,"end":452.11221875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":452.78721875,"end":455.14971875000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":456.93846875,"end":457.51221875000005,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":459.70596875,"end":461.10659375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":461.88284375,"end":464.11034375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":466.21971875,"end":468.36284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":470.79284375000003,"end":472.27784375000005,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":473.74596875000003,"end":497.74221875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":477.00284375,"end":477.93096875000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":485.57534375000006,"end":486.95909375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":487.93784375,"end":489.43971875000005,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":493.00034375,"end":495.29534375000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":497.97846875000005,"end":506.28096875000006,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":504.22221875,"end":504.62721875000005,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":505.30221875,"end":505.48784375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":506.93909375000004,"end":562.32284375,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":507.90096875000006,"end":509.20034375000006,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":511.57971875000004,"end":514.9040937500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":525.0122187500001,"end":526.22721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":528.9440937500001,"end":529.01159375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":534.4115937500001,"end":539.2040937500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":545.1272187500001,"end":547.43909375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":549.73409375,"end":552.6028437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":555.31971875,"end":557.3447187500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":557.58096875,"end":558.4584687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":560.26409375,"end":565.3603437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":565.7990937500001,"end":565.8328437499999,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":565.8328437499999,"end":571.67159375,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":565.88346875,"end":565.90034375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":567.9084687500001,"end":568.3303437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":571.62096875,"end":574.4053437499999,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":572.9709687500001,"end":577.2065937500001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":578.0503437500001,"end":610.9397187500001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":581.9653437500001,"end":584.3953437499999,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":594.67221875,"end":595.51596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":596.10659375,"end":597.64221875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":598.3172187499999,"end":598.8572187500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":611.9522187499999,"end":622.0772187499999,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":622.4653437500001,"end":629.4853437500001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":630.4640937500001,"end":671.20034375,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":636.6909687500001,"end":636.9778437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":671.5547187500001,"end":675.6384687500001,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":676.09409375,"end":689.47596875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":689.5772187500002,"end":709.70909375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":709.75971875,"end":723.1922187499999,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":723.3103437500001,"end":736.72596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":736.87784375,"end":740.4553437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馮總經理輝昇","start":740.69159375,"end":746.4965937500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":746.41221875,"end":748.94346875,"speaker_score":0.9},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":749.4497187500001,"end":751.9640937500001,"speaker_score":0.9}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.126,"end":31.744,"text":"主席好 我們請部長還有台鐵總經理好 請陳部長我們請方總經理委員好部長我是有一個有關台鐵的問題但是等一下細節可以請總經理回答但是請部長表達一個態度好 沒問題因為最主要現在就是我們已經進入高齡化社會了所以各縣政府都有推那個敬老卡像台北 新北在7月1號開始都把敬老卡"},{"start":32.685,"end":52.517,"text":"提高了像我們新北市變600點 本來是480點那這個敬老卡當初最主要的用途是鼓勵長輩出門當然一部分是敬老那出門就要搭車嘛以我們新北來講一開始是主要是坐捷運公車後來大概在幾年前也開放給台鐵使用可是台鐵有一項措施對長輩是非常不友善"},{"start":55.339,"end":81.279,"text":"部長聽聽看台鐵有一個措施是對長輩非常不友善在使用敬老卡的部分因為敬老卡通常它是有結合悠遊卡的功能台鐵只有在進出的閘口有設悠遊卡功能所以他們可以刷進跟刷出可是他們不能夠到櫃台去買對號的車所以自強號的話他們即便是坐火車都要站有時候要擠"},{"start":83.36,"end":106.758,"text":"被趕來趕去那我覺得這對長輩來說是非常不友善而且這個也會減少讓長輩使用的動機為什麼呢因為如果會坐到台鐵的話通常都是比較長程嘛那如果長程不讓他買對號的車子的話沒有座位坐的話他們乾脆就不坐台鐵我覺得也讓這個美意大打折扣那我是不曉得為什麼台鐵一直不願意在"},{"start":108.339,"end":128.132,"text":"櫃檯裝設可以讓讓長輩可以讓悠遊卡買對號列車我不懂因為據我的了解好像以前縣市政府就有反應過那這其實就是只要裝你就可以解決很多長輩搭車不便的問題那在這樣的一個敬老的社會是不是先請台鐵回答一下好不好等一下再部長表達一個態度啦好不好"},{"start":129.37,"end":154.327,"text":"委員好確實各縣市政府有部分的縣市政府也有反應是不是他們的敬老卡社福卡可以使用台鐵那目前搭乘我們的區間車都沒有問題我們結合T-pass也都可以不用講我剛剛沒有問的問題就針對問題回答好不好那我們現在委員提的問題主要是這個裁員是地方政府的裁員他們是給老人點數"},{"start":155.788,"end":177.572,"text":"那這個點數必須要透過我們的票務系統去換算成這個錢我們還要跟地方政府來做申請款項所以剛剛委員講說不是我們裝了我們的票務系統裝了一個設備就地方的這個監牢卡就可以使用必須要得到地方政府的同意不是本來人家就等一下等一下總經理你再給我隨便亂講我剛剛已經說了嘛你們的閘門是可以的嘛"},{"start":182.173,"end":207.818,"text":"那咱們也有跟地方政府轉換點數變現金的問題啊現在的問題是買票的時候沒有辦法刷嘛你去跟我扯別的幹嘛不好意思我問的問題我都很直接而且我也希望你針對我的問題回答不要繞圈圈如果繞圈圈就顯示心虛而且地方政府是希望台鐵可以幫忙去設那個設備嘛所以你不用什麼事都在那邊扯好不好我就討厭官員在這個國會殿堂胡說八道浪費時間你可不可以針對問題回答"},{"start":209.838,"end":236.277,"text":"瓜葦委員現在關鍵就是如果要增加那個設備我們在六月下旬就會請各地方政府來協調第一個所有的地方政府大家要協調要同意第二個是增加這個設備的費用必須要大家一起來分攤那個設備費用那裝置裝上去以後這我們的這個老人他才可以用他的各縣市發的這個社福卡來使用我們的票務系統"},{"start":237.614,"end":252.851,"text":"第一個 第一個比如說啦 在板橋站你在板橋站的櫃檯那邊去設一個可以去刷悠遊卡去買對號路坐車你可以就針對板橋站啊這個為什麼需要全國的各縣市通通都同意的"},{"start":255.133,"end":269.068,"text":"關鍵在於這個財源是地方政府編列所以地方政府編列嘛所以比如說我長輩他使用他買200塊錢的票那這200塊錢的票的車價當然你去跟地方政府算沒錯啊沒有錯嘛然後第二個"},{"start":270.109,"end":289.294,"text":"你本來你算是提供服務嘛對不對就像有一些店家他會提供刷卡機對不對那他為什麼要提供刷卡機因為如果有刷卡機的話人家買東西會刺激人家買東西嘛因為我今天去買一件衣服一萬塊錢比如說啦那我沒有那麼多現金你有刷卡我這一萬塊我就付了啊但你沒有刷卡機不好意思我可能就不來買啦"},{"start":290.094,"end":318.353,"text":"所以店家他為了要刺激自己的營業額他會去裝刷卡機你現在的講法很奇怪你的意思是說如果我在櫃台去設那個可以使用優惠卡的設備的話那這個錢不應該我來負擔因為地方政府一起來付這個裝置的錢不是啊你如果有這個裝置你同樣的可以讓那些長輩願意多搭台鐵也可以增加你的營收嘛我不太懂為什麼台鐵你對於做這麼簡單的事情你理由那麼多你對長輩好一點是會怎麼樣"},{"start":320.154,"end":335.286,"text":"你民進黨政府都不希望敬老嗎你包括你們民進黨政府裡面很多立委現在選市長都說要提高敬老卡你說要提高敬老卡的金額但你不願意讓人家更方便使用講那麼一大堆理由沒有一個我聽得下去的部長"},{"start":336.121,"end":355.061,"text":"你跟那個榮進講一下好不好他講的沒有一個理由是我聽得下去的民進黨政府相當敬老齁這個部分要跟他講一套要做一套要講到要做到啦連一個在櫃台設一個裝置都不願意我這樣聽起來其實事情蠻簡單對是不是您在要求說這件事要趕快做"},{"start":355.541,"end":378.227,"text":"那台鐵公司也有在演繹也有在找地方政府在討論這件事不是沒有你怎麼知道有他剛剛他才在那邊講六月底那麼剛好喔沒問就沒有你們剛剛已經建議好幾年了他剛剛已經有說了他有說已經在找地方政府開會大家看這個系統請問一下是幾月幾號開會所以需要時間幾月幾號開會我們六月底前六月底以前不要隨便信口開河你現在如果說六月底開會你有個時間嘛請問是幾月幾號"},{"start":380.968,"end":389.492,"text":"你不要隨便講因為我現在問了就六月底今天是六月了就六月底你現在應該有具體的時間了請問是幾月幾號請問是幾月幾號你也有具體時間幾月幾號開會之前也跟各縣市都詢問過沒有"},{"start":396.215,"end":419.729,"text":"有有沒有怎麼問我們有發函給各地市不是嘛今天第一個部長部長我覺得部長部長今天其實我我認為這個事情你不會知道了部長我認為您不會知道了但是今天為什麼會在這個地方您在前面問他因為在你的高度你應該覺得這個是很容易辦到的事情那剛剛台鐵總經理講的所有的理由我覺得沒有一個成立的"},{"start":420.049,"end":435.866,"text":"還有說那個裝你在櫃台設一個刷卡的設備還要地方政府同意喔這是多難的高科技啊這個就是你賣衣服的店家去跟銀行生一個刷卡設備這麼簡單而已還要去找地方政府開會這你要不要做的問題嘛部長"},{"start":438.149,"end":450.144,"text":"這個你自己判斷一下只是設一個刷卡的機器而已讓大家可以刷悠遊卡扣敬老卡點數就這麼簡單喔不要搞得好像驚天地氣鬼神的多大工程一樣"},{"start":451.574,"end":472.876,"text":"你說的公道話好不好這個我相信你之前不知道啦這件事已經在做了那您再說沒有開會我可以請他們把會議的資料提供給你他剛剛講了一堆不能做的理由我都聽不下去你聽得下去嗎他剛剛講了一大堆不能做的理由你聽得下去嗎結論很簡單第一我們會做第二我們會加速好什麼時候"},{"start":474.498,"end":497.335,"text":"我們會加速但必須要跟地方政府開會這個不用跟地方政府開會啦設一個刷卡機也要開會我們要裝VISA的刷卡機也要VISA公司同意啊大家講好時間啊地方政府都是還發文給台鐵希望他裝人家都拜託台鐵裝了你還要問台鐵你還要問地方政府同不同意"},{"start":498.536,"end":505.914,"text":"你們這個邏輯大家聽得懂嗎好沒關係部長如果你覺得可以做的話你給個時間嘛好不好這個我們都會做啊然後大概什麼時候"},{"start":507.046,"end":528.828,"text":"需要時間去跟大概什麼時候嗎牛年馬月還是怎麼樣我們已經講了六月底之前會六月底以前會定案是不是會開會六月底會開會然後大概這個應該不難嗎大概什麼時候可以報告委員如果我們說六月底開會我要求七月一號要開始但地方政府不同意我怎麼辦我沒有要求你我可以自己開始嗎那如果地方政府同意的話大概什麼時候可以嗎"},{"start":528.968,"end":550.977,"text":"同意就會有結論所以目前還沒開會不會有結論啊現在要推給地方政府那假設地方因為我知道地方政府因為我知道地方政府希望敬老給長輩其實我們大家都是希望長輩可以去做那個台訓這個方向我們是同意但是呢我不知道這個東西為什麼那麼困難無法回答還要推給地方政府"},{"start":551.377,"end":564.926,"text":"沒有人沒有正在做啦其實剛剛他六月底是隨便講的啦委員不然是哪幾月幾號回憶資料都可以提供給你啦六月底好幾月幾號你現在有講啊幾月幾號開會啊我們這個會我們還要縣市政府的時間大家要都能夠出席啊"},{"start":565.928,"end":592.685,"text":"我們要約他們他們要同意啊你約他他不同意你這種話你講的你自己聽得懂嗎?委員現場可能你聽不懂但其他人或許聽得懂聽得懂嗎?你約他他要同意你現在意思是說你們台鐵想要裝但是地方政府不想裝所以你約他他可能不來但我的了解是地方都很希望台鐵裝你故意把它扭曲成說是地方政府好像找地方政府同意很困難"},{"start":593.545,"end":621.372,"text":"我覺得大家解決問題不要用這種話術的方式不是每一個縣市都願意這麼做那有縣市願意你就先做啊只是裝個刷卡機而已啊我們要整體去討論而且你們閘門就有嘛你們現在只是說在買票的櫃台偵測一個嘛你閘門就有嘛所以大家都是願意的嘛好啦 沒關係啊你既然你承諾六月底開會我也不想吵這個東西啦那就往前走好然後另外安全的問題我請教一下再給我兩分鐘"},{"start":623.42,"end":644.567,"text":"這個3月27號三家那時候電車有一個發生一個事故就是因為他的那個集電供有把那個電線扯斷那我是有看到好像上個禮拜你們有懲處五個人懲處五個人那這個集電供可能疑似是維修你們認為是可能沒有確實維修所以有去處罰了檢修員"},{"start":646.187,"end":675.347,"text":"然後他不知道是不是螺絲沒鎖好還是那個集電工舊了所以導致這個狀況可是除了三家之外其實最近集電工發生故障或事故其實蠻多起的包括一兩個禮拜前在台東也有一起然後在清明年假那時候4月5號的時候在宜蘭也有一起反正就陸陸續續我們都可以在新聞看到因為集電工的問題導致於這個車子出現故障然後延誤三家那次是最嚴重的因為延誤到大概"},{"start":676.187,"end":695.632,"text":"延誤了非常久那我想問一下那這個是一個都是個案嗎還是說他是在維修上面SOP有問題還是其實人力有台鐵現在人力有出現斷層是哪一個包委這集電工3加3月27號集電工是因為集電工的原來設計不良造成"},{"start":696.152,"end":722.642,"text":"那我們在四月底所有的集電工都換成一體成型的集電工那所以這一個未來這個集電工900型的集電工不會再發生同樣的問題了這我們已經解決那委員剛才有提到說在其他的這個宜蘭或台東它那個是吊掛線電競設備的吊掛線鏽蝕造成的那集電工去勾到吊掛線所以這個部分我們也全線的在做整個特檢"},{"start":723.382,"end":743.977,"text":"那在像台東到花蓮我們就是八月底會完全全部特檢那宜蘭縣的部分我們在這個七月的七月份我們會完成全部的特檢南回五月二十九號我們已經全部特檢完了所以我們透過這全面的特檢更換希望這個能夠有效的降低這個電力設備發生同樣問題的一個風險好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝葉遠之委員謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:57:29.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:57:31.888000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請部長還有臺鐵的總經理。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T11:57:32.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:57:35.170000+08:00","text":"請陳部長，請馮總經理。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T11:57:39.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:57:40.033000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:57:40.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:57:41.314000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:57:41.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:57:46.917000+08:00","text":"我是想問一個關於臺鐵的問題，等一下可以請總經理回答細節的部分，但是請部長表達一個態度。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T11:57:47.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:57:47.898000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:57:48.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:58:01.927000+08:00","text":"最主要就是因為我們現在已經進入高齡化社會，所以各縣市政府都有推出敬老卡，像臺北、新北敬老卡的點數從7月1號開始提高了，像我們新北市本來是480點，要變成600點。","quality":0.716},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:58:02.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:58:21.999000+08:00","text":"敬老卡當初最主要是為了鼓勵長輩出門，當然有一部分是敬老，出門就要搭車，以我們新北來講，一開始主要是坐捷運、公車，後來在幾年前也開放搭臺鐵的車，可是臺鐵有一項措施對長輩非常不友善，請部長聽聽看。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T11:58:21.999000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T11:58:22.999000+08:00","text":"好，沒有問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:58:22.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:58:53.543000+08:00","text":"臺鐵在使用敬老卡的部分有一個措施對長輩非常不友善，因為敬老卡通常是有結合悠遊卡的功能，臺鐵只有在進出的閘門有設悠遊卡的功能，所以他們可以刷進跟刷出，可是他們不能夠到櫃檯去買對號的車票，所以如果搭自強號的話，他們即便是坐火車也都要站著，有時候很擠就會被趕來趕去，我覺得這對長輩來說是非常不友善。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:58:54.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:58:57.867000+08:00","text":"而且這樣也會減少長輩想使用的動機，為什麼呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:58:58.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:59:10.256000+08:00","text":"因為會去坐臺鐵的車通常都是比較長程，如果長程不讓他買對號的車票而沒有座位坐的話，他們乾脆就不坐臺鐵的車了，我覺得會讓這個美意大打折扣。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:59:10.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:59:17.401000+08:00","text":"我不曉得為什麼臺鐵一直不願意在櫃檯裝設讓長輩可以用悠遊卡買對號列車車票的設備，我不懂！","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:59:18.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:59:30.109000+08:00","text":"據我了解，好像以前縣市政府就有反映過，其實只要裝了，就可以解決很多長輩搭車不便的問題，在我們現在這樣一個敬老的社會，為什麼不做呢？","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:59:30.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:59:34.112000+08:00","text":"我想先請臺鐵回答，等一下再請部長表達一個態度，好不好？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T11:59:35.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:59:35.630000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T11:59:36.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:59:49.520000+08:00","text":"確實有部分的縣市政府反映他們的敬老卡、社福卡是不是可以在臺鐵使用，目前搭乘我們的區間車都沒有問題，我們結合TPASS也都可以……","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T11:59:49.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T11:59:52.902000+08:00","text":"你不用講我剛剛沒有問的問題，就針對問題回答，好不好？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T11:59:54.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:00:10.630000+08:00","text":"關於委員所提的問題，主要是敬老卡是地方政府的財源，他們是給老人點數，這個點數必須要透過我們的票務系統去換算成金額，我們還要跟地方政府來申請款項。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:00:10.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:00:20.232000+08:00","text":"所以剛才委員講的，並不是我們的票務系統裝了一個設備然後地方政府的敬老卡就可以使用，必須要得到地方政府的同意。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:00:22.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:00:23.552000+08:00","text":"等一下，總經理，你在隨便亂講，我剛剛已經說了，你們的閘門是可以的嘛！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:00:28.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:00:36.455000+08:00","text":"那閘門也有跟地方政府轉換點數變現金的問題，現在的問題是買票的時候沒有辦法刷，你去跟我扯別的幹嘛？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:00:37.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:00:50.437000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我問你們問題都是很直接，而且我也希望你針對我的問題回答，不要繞圈圈，如果繞圈圈就顯示心虛，而且地方政府是希望臺鐵可以幫忙去設那個設備，所以你不用什麼事都在這邊扯，好不好？好。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:00:50.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:00:53.798000+08:00","text":"我最討厭就是官員在國會殿堂胡說八道、浪費時間，你可不可以針對問題回答？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:00:55.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:22.277000+08:00","text":"報告委員，現在關鍵就是如果要增加那個設備，我們在6月下旬就會請各地方政府來協調，第一個，所有的地方政府大家要協調、要同意；第二個是增加設備需要費用，必須要大家一起來分攤那個設備的費用，在裝了這個裝置以後，老人才可以用各縣市發的社福卡來使用我們的票務系統。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:23.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:38.670000+08:00","text":"第一個，比如說在板橋站，你在板橋站的櫃檯去設一個可以刷悠遊卡買對號入座車票的設備，你可以就針對板橋站，為什麼需要全國各縣市政府通通都同意呢？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:41.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:43.996000+08:00","text":"報告委員，關鍵是在於這個財源是由地方政府編列，所以……","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:44.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:45.197000+08:00","text":"是地方政府編列嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:46.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:53.126000+08:00","text":"比如說長輩要使用來買200塊錢的票，那這200塊錢的票價你當然是去跟地方政府算，沒錯啊！","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:53.126000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:54.126000+08:00","text":"對，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:53.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:54.307000+08:00","text":"沒有錯嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:54.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:01:58.970000+08:00","text":"第二個，你算是提供服務，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:01:58.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:03.311000+08:00","text":"就像有些店家會提供刷卡機，他為什麼提供刷卡機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:03.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:06.872000+08:00","text":"因為如果有刷卡機的話，會刺激人家買東西。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:07.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:20.577000+08:00","text":"比如說我今天去買一件衣服1萬塊錢，但我沒有那麼多現金，你可以刷卡，這1萬塊我就付了；但你沒有刷卡機，不好意思，我可能就不買了，所以店家為了要刺激自己的營業額，他會去裝刷卡機。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:20.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:32.725000+08:00","text":"你現在的講法很奇怪，你的意思是說，如果我在櫃檯設可以使用悠遊卡的設備，這個錢不應該由我來負擔，地方政府應該一起來付這個裝置的錢。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:32.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:33.105000+08:00","text":"不是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:33.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:44.353000+08:00","text":"你如果有這個裝置，同樣的可以讓那些長輩願意多搭臺鐵，也可以增加你的營收，我不太懂為什麼臺鐵對於做這麼簡單的事情理由那麼多，你對長輩好一點是會怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:46.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:48.736000+08:00","text":"民進黨政府都不希望敬老嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:48.736000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:02:49.736000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:02:49.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:01.106000+08:00","text":"包括你們民進黨政府裡面很多立委現在在選市長，都說要提高敬老卡的金額，結果你們說要提高敬老卡的金額，卻不願意讓人家更方便使用，講一大堆理由，沒有一個我聽得下去的！","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:01.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:06.706000+08:00","text":"部長，你跟總經理講一下好不好，他講的沒有一個理由是我聽得下去的。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:06.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:08.688000+08:00","text":"民進黨政府相當敬老，這個部分要跟你……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:10.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:11.190000+08:00","text":"講到要做到啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:11.190000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:12.190000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:11.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:14.954000+08:00","text":"連在櫃檯設一個裝置都不願意。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:15.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:17.097000+08:00","text":"我這樣聽起來，其實事情蠻簡單……對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:17.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:18.218000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:18.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:25.402000+08:00","text":"您要求這件事要趕快做，臺鐵公司也有在研議，也有在找地方政府討論這件事，不是沒有……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:26.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:26.963000+08:00","text":"你怎麼知道有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:27.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:28.983000+08:00","text":"他剛剛才在講……6月底……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:29.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:32.164000+08:00","text":"那麼剛好，我沒問就沒有，已經建議好幾年了。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:32.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:37.125000+08:00","text":"您剛剛沒有仔細聽，他剛剛已經有說了，他有說已經在找地方政府開會，大家看這個系統怎麼做……","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:37.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:37.886000+08:00","text":"請問一下是幾月幾號開會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:38.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:39.446000+08:00","text":"需要時間……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:39.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:39.986000+08:00","text":"幾月幾號開會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:41.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:41.727000+08:00","text":"6月底以前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:41.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:44.227000+08:00","text":"你不要隨便信口開河，如果現在說是6月底開會，你會有個時間，請問是幾月幾號？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:46.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:53.571000+08:00","text":"你不要隨便講，因為我現在問了，你說6月底，今天已經是6月了，6月底開會你現在應該有具體的時間，請問是幾月幾號？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:53.571000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:54.571000+08:00","text":"我們有詢問過各縣市……","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:53.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:03:54.351000+08:00","text":"你有具體時間，幾月幾號開會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:03:54.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:02.215000+08:00","text":"報告委員，之前也跟各縣市都詢問過……沒有。有。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:03.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:03.916000+08:00","text":"怎麼問？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:03.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:05.197000+08:00","text":"我們有發函給各縣市。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:05.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:07.198000+08:00","text":"不是，今天第一個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:07.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:08.198000+08:00","text":"委員，你不相信，我就請他把函拿出來，函可以給你看……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:07.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:17.924000+08:00","text":"部長，我認為這個事情您不會知道，但是今天為什麼會在您面前問他？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:18.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:21.406000+08:00","text":"因為在你的高度，你應該覺得這個是很容易辦到的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:22.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:32.336000+08:00","text":"剛剛臺鐵總經理講的所有的理由我覺得沒有一個成立的，還有說你在櫃檯設一個刷卡的設備還要地方政府同意，這是多難的高科技？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:33.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:41.826000+08:00","text":"這個就是賣衣服的店家去跟銀行生一個刷卡設備這麼簡單而已，還要去找地方政府開會，這是你要不要做的問題嘛！","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:41.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:04:59.556000+08:00","text":"部長，你自己判斷一下，只是設一個刷卡的機器而已，讓大家可以刷悠遊卡扣敬老卡點數，就這麼簡單，不要搞得好像驚天地、泣鬼神多大的工程一樣，部長，你說句公道話好不好？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:04:59.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:00.758000+08:00","text":"我相信這個你之前不知道。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:01.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:07.825000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這件事已經在做了，您在說沒有開會，我可以請他們把會議的資料提供給您……","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:07.825000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:08.825000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:07.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:11.368000+08:00","text":"他剛剛講了一堆不能做的理由，我都聽不下去，你聽得下去嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:11.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:14.832000+08:00","text":"他剛剛講了一大堆不能做的理由，你聽得下去嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:14.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:16.294000+08:00","text":"報告委員，結論很簡單，第一，我們會做。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:16.294000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:17.294000+08:00","text":"確定喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:17.294000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:18.294000+08:00","text":"你會做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:16.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:18.075000+08:00","text":"第二，會加速。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:18.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:18.856000+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:20.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:23.460000+08:00","text":"我們會加速，但必須要跟地方政府開會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:23.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:25.641000+08:00","text":"這個不用跟地方政府開會啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:26.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:28.403000+08:00","text":"設一個刷卡機也要開會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:28.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:35.289000+08:00","text":"我們要裝VISA的刷卡機也要VISA公司同意，大家要講好時間，不可能我單方面說我裝……","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:35.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:39.452000+08:00","text":"地方政府還發文給臺鐵，希望他裝……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:39.452000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:40.452000+08:00","text":"我們也有發文詢問……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:39.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:43.314000+08:00","text":"人家都拜託臺鐵裝了，你還要問地方政府同不同意？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:44.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:47.564000+08:00","text":"這個邏輯大家聽得懂嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:47.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:50.170000+08:00","text":"沒關係，部長，如果你覺得可以做的話，你給個時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:50.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:51.132000+08:00","text":"這個我們都會做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:51.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:51.894000+08:00","text":"大概什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:53.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:53.887000+08:00","text":"需要時間去跟地方政府談。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:53.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:54.448000+08:00","text":"大概什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:54.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:56.129000+08:00","text":"牛年馬月還是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:56.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:05:57.671000+08:00","text":"我們已經講了，6月底之前會找縣市政府來開會。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:05:57.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:00.574000+08:00","text":"6月底以前會定案？開會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:00.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:04.638000+08:00","text":"6月底會開會，這個應該不難，大概什麼時候可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:04.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:10.884000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果我們說6月底開會，我要求7月1號要開始，但地方政府不同意，我怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:10.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:12.686000+08:00","text":"我可以自己開始嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:12.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:14.808000+08:00","text":"如果地方政府同意的話，大概什麼時候可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:14.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:17.569000+08:00","text":"同意就會有結論，目前還沒開會，不會有結論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:17.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:21.110000+08:00","text":"現在又推給地方政府，假設地方……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:21.110000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:24.592000+08:00","text":"這不是推，程序上不這麼做，你能執行嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:24.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:30.914000+08:00","text":"因為我知道地方政府希望敬老，我們都希望長輩可以去坐臺鐵……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:31.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:32.315000+08:00","text":"這個方向我們同意，而且會做。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:32.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:36.957000+08:00","text":"但是我不知道這個東西為什麼那麼困難，無法回答，還要推給地方政府。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:37.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:37.657000+08:00","text":"我們正在做，沒有人在推。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:37.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:38.538000+08:00","text":"沒有正在做啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:38.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:40.679000+08:00","text":"其實剛剛他說6月底是隨便講的啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:41.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:42.580000+08:00","text":"不然是幾月幾號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:42.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:43.661000+08:00","text":"委員，你要資料都可以提供給你。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:44.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:45.182000+08:00","text":"6月底，幾月幾號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:45.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:46.443000+08:00","text":"你現在就講幾月幾號開會，幾月幾號開啊？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:47.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:50.726000+08:00","text":"這個會的時間要縣市政府大家都能夠出席。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:51.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:53.689000+08:00","text":"我們要約他們，他們要同意啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:54.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:57.872000+08:00","text":"你約他，他不同意，這種話你講了你自己聽得懂嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:57.872000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:06:58.872000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個預算是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:06:57.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:01.894000+08:00","text":"委員，現場可能你聽不懂，但其他人或許聽得懂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:02.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:04.116000+08:00","text":"聽得懂嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:04.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:05.256000+08:00","text":"你約他，他要同意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:05.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:11.420000+08:00","text":"你現在的意思是說，你們臺鐵想要裝，但是地方政府不想裝，所以你約他，他可能不來。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:11.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:18.685000+08:00","text":"但我的了解是，地方都很希望臺鐵裝，你故意把它扭曲成好像找地方政府同意很困難。委員……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:19.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:22.246000+08:00","text":"我覺得大家解決問題不要用這種話術的方式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:22.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:24.206000+08:00","text":"不是每一個縣市都願意這麼做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:24.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:26.027000+08:00","text":"有縣市願意你就先做啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:26.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:27.367000+08:00","text":"只是裝個刷卡機而已。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:28.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:28.867000+08:00","text":"我們要整體去討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:28.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:33.688000+08:00","text":"而且你們閘門就有，現在只是在買票的櫃檯增設一個嘛！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:34.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:35.129000+08:00","text":"你的閘門就有嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:35.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:36.489000+08:00","text":"所以大家都是願意的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:36.489000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:38.670000+08:00","text":"並沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:38.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:39.070000+08:00","text":"沒關係啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:40.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:42.591000+08:00","text":"既然你承諾6月底開會，我也不想吵這個東西啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:42.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:07:44.391000+08:00","text":"那就往前走。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:07:44.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:08:02.344000+08:00","text":"另外我請教一下安全的問題，再給我2分鐘，3月27號山佳站有電車發生一個事故，因為集電弓把電線扯斷，我看到上個禮拜你們有懲處5個人。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:08:07.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:08:17.351000+08:00","text":"你們認為可能是集電弓沒有確實維修，所以處罰了檢修員，然後不知道是因為螺絲沒鎖好，還是集電弓舊了，所以導致這個狀況。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:08:17.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:08:42.987000+08:00","text":"可是除了山佳之外，其實最近集電弓發生蠻多起故障或事故的，包括一、兩個禮拜前在臺東也有一起，然後清明連假4月5號的時候在宜蘭也有一起，陸陸續續我們都可以在新聞看到，因為集電弓的問題導致車子出現故障而延誤，山佳那次是最嚴重的，延誤了非常久。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:08:44.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:08:47.768000+08:00","text":"我想問一下，這個都是個案嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:08:47.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:08:51.509000+08:00","text":"還是在維修上面SOP有問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:08:51.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:08:54.890000+08:00","text":"還是臺鐵現在人力有出現斷層？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-04T12:08:54.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:08:55.910000+08:00","text":"是哪一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:08:56.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:09:14.256000+08:00","text":"報告委員，山佳3月27號集電弓的狀況是因為集電弓原來設計不良造成，我們在4月底，所有的集電弓都換成一體成型的集電弓，所以未來900型的集電弓不會再發生同樣的問題，這個我們已經解決。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"馮總經理輝昇","start":"2026-06-04T12:09:14.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:09:49.517000+08:00","text":"委員剛才有提到其他在宜蘭或臺東的事件，那個是電力設備的吊掛線鏽蝕造成的，集電弓去勾到吊掛線，所以這個部分我們也全線在做特檢，像臺東到花蓮8月底會完成全部的特檢，宜蘭縣的部分我們在7月份會完成全部的特檢，南迴在5月29號我們已經全部特檢完了，所以我們透過全面的特檢更換，希望能夠有效降低電力設備發生同樣問題的風險。謝謝。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-06-04T12:09:49.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:09:49.657000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T12:09:49.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-04T12:09:49.977000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T12:09:50.477000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:09:55.048429+08:00","text":"接下來請游顥委員發言，游顥、游顥不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T12:09:55.348429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:10:06.777000+08:00","text":"報告及詢答完畢，委員陳素月、傅崐萁、游顥、何欣純、徐欣瑩委員所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-04T12:10:07.077000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-04T12:10:18.219857+08:00","text":"委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請交通部及相關機關儘速以書面答復。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}