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陳委員部長早安今天的主題是指國軍的老舊裝備太初啟程跟戰略銜接的配套規劃那麼剛才也聽取了連山次長對整個換裝過程的經過那麼做一個敘述我這邊做出幾個建議"},{"start":31.752,"end":51.75,"text":"本質是落實不對稱持久戰力提升全方位的韌性原則目標方法手段我最後提出的建議在挑戰部分因為打裝編訓是我們戰力的基礎目前有些裝備缺裝的氛圍下怎麼樣完成建軍備戰的核心工作"},{"start":53.311,"end":67.847,"text":"人才很重要招募不易劉迎南現在邊線比很低尤其是這個新式裝備的回來對原本老舊裝備太儲後他的人員要接替他會有很大的壓力因此要給他一個"},{"start":68.988,"end":88.604,"text":"调试的骑乘空间并不是旧装备太出这个单位就废除除非是一个全新的装备建置一个新单位那我们还会有实验编装有一个转换期那么合格的教官以及授课的服务的骑乘这个比较难以匹配"},{"start":89.284,"end":109.74,"text":"那么也建议除了在技术学校基础训练班以外国防大学的陆军子参学院海军空军很多的新的武器装备的新概念导入以后要从课程开始更新教育更新尤其是现在一直在强调AI的技术导入"},{"start":110.461,"end":124.299,"text":"那麼還有一些新的我們講的圖像共同圖像那麼在操作手冊準則叫飯方面都要能夠同步而且要加快進程這個是很重要的那麼尤其是現在強調的不對稱戰力"},{"start":126.161,"end":140.868,"text":"以无人机跟各部队的合作做基础实际上在军种跨军种中间还有很多协商协调努力的空间因为接装的时程不同使用的频率管道也不同"},{"start":141.628,"end":157.762,"text":"這個部分可能除了資通電軍我們這個通知次長還有另外就是跟我們國內的這個通訊單位速發部那有些頻率我們還要爭取頻寬還不夠這個部分是要共同努力部長在這個地方請您簡單的回應"},{"start":160.617,"end":178.989,"text":"我想我們在最重要的就是裝備太儲跟新式戰力的建構,主要的問題就在於是說我們要接裝之後我們才能夠換裝,那不然都會產生戰力的一個間隙,這個就是"},{"start":180.41,"end":194.056,"text":"我們現在所面臨的很多服役年限逐漸增加可是在這樣的情況之下,還是有一定的戰力的情況之下,我想我們還是要來維護這個本來就具備的戰力那當然如果我們認為這個"},{"start":206.167,"end":222.814,"text":"沒有確實它是一個無效的一個裝備的話,那我們現在也訂定了整體的一個規劃,我們會來逐步的來太築這些無效的裝備那詳細的這個內容,因為這個我想是涉及機敏,我們就不具體的意義來說明"},{"start":226.811,"end":242.704,"text":"這個我們跟部裡面同仁保持密切的協調溝通也就是說在接莊重疊、汰換中間有的時候難免會產生人員的落差或是士氣上面的壓力這個部分要提醒大家共同注意"},{"start":243.924,"end":264.175,"text":"我想接裝新的裝備都是非常重要的,因為接裝都會有一個過程所以這個時候要陸續讓接裝的能力能夠擴充到一個程度但同時新式的裝備可能在某個時間還是要維持"},{"start":266.876,"end":285.035,"text":"这个要大家共同努力下面这张图比较复杂就是因为最近从5月28号媒体就在报道日本跟菲律宾他们有关经济海域重叠区做协议当然这个中间会影响到我们本身的所谓的"},{"start":286.469,"end":310.391,"text":"經濟水域但因為一直沒有一個圖像我跟部長報告說我們現在在強調的國軍在建立JCOP共同圖像是戰術性的這是屬於我們的武器跟Sensor涵蓋範圍的重疊區但是跨部會我建議要產生一個共同性的戰略圖像"},{"start":311.383,"end":337.232,"text":"也就是说这个不仅止于的我们防空识别区不仅止于我们各个部队驻守涵盖的范围那这个东西可能还需要涵盖了你的空域训练空域就是说你的ADIS还有民航局的FIR另外标注领海基线领海12里24里到经济海域"},{"start":338.132,"end":366.975,"text":"那这个谈到的问题其实源头就是这个这个是1982年12月10号联合国海洋公约经过9年的讨论正式通过这个是原版第一版的1983年版的这里面律定了很多清楚的条例但今天不是我们要讨论的重点关键在于这个共同图像因为要根据内政部公布的那么他是在民国87年的1月"},{"start":370.054,"end":378.785,"text":"這個21號啊公布了臨海法 臨海基線 匹聯區以及我們的專屬經濟海域但這個圖呢"},{"start":381.618,"end":410.115,"text":"不是國防部來標也不是內政部做出來公佈那外交部去協商其他的國家跟周遭國家溝通我們沒有一個基本的圖像所以這個部分也就是說我們還要建立一個共同性的戰略共同圖像也就是說在我們的國安會碰到這種跨國情勢我們的海巡我們的國防部我們海軍本身"},{"start":411.257,"end":437.81,"text":"外交部 内政部大家用这个来做讨论那么在有关EEZ的范围内政部公布了总共20几条都在这上面我提出这个重点就是说图中心的那个就是说我们当时画出来的台湾的200里经济海域但是也尊重周遭的国家所以也有重叠也有退让但这张图再下一张图"},{"start":439.4,"end":452.879,"text":"這個圖呢未必客觀可是中間就是根據菲律賓跟日本所言重疊區但在這個裡面呢我們的海巡在執法我們海軍也在做監控但是你沒有一個完整的大範圍的"},{"start":454.221,"end":472.82,"text":"战略性的共同图像在跨部会讨论的时候如果是用看媒体报道或者是凭我们直觉我们因为平常只有一个小范围的图所以这张图是可以扩大那么可以用这个图的原始底图原来是航图在经过校正套叠上去的"},{"start":474.039,"end":503.633,"text":"那根据联合国海洋法公约里面74条83条不损及第三国的利益我们并没有建议要同步跟日本跟菲律宾谈因为那是他们两个人谈可是我们个别可以透过我们的对的对口单位表达我在这个地方跟你重叠区如何维护我的权益跟执法权那这个下面呢这张图各位看的右边这个图啊这是我们空军的训练工具"},{"start":505.134,"end":528.699,"text":"那原本是防空識別區但是因為現在民航局的FR圖裡面會把民航航線標註也是中共的共機在擾台的時候有時候跨越中線有時候在飛但是它的高度跟民航局的飛行航線是錯開的所以它是玩灰色地帶的手法但這個東西呢因為我們每天有標註共機擾台"},{"start":532.001,"end":556.039,"text":"這個海上船的部署位置但是我建議把那個圖略加調整現在是有比較的經緯度概念可是跨域旁邊的就沒有了那這一次呢這是剛才的小圖各位看這是昨天跟前天下午我們把這個marine traffic裡面海上航圖啊這裡面就有菲律賓的"},{"start":557.942,"end":584.182,"text":"漁船這個紅圈圈位置並不清楚進到這個位置但這個範圍呢也是在24里之外可是在我們的專屬經濟海域這個跟國軍的執法互相沒有關係但是呢海巡呢又說超過24里了那這個時候是什麼呢在十年前呢自由自由時報啊就登了一篇五月"},{"start":586.374,"end":603.351,"text":"5月7号他讲经济海域的护舆文斗这是讲法律的解释条款方方沟通这个里面国防部呢并不是主导可是呢我们要建议要用出一个共同图像战略性的图像涵盖范围足够让"},{"start":604.224,"end":618.423,"text":"海委會讓內政部外交部甚至我們在國安會共同討論因為如果有其他的國家的軍艦進入我們的地方做海研做調查其實這是侵犯主權"},{"start":619.224,"end":639.534,"text":"那這個部分我的建議就是說這個戰略性的共同圖像也請聯二來找海軍配合軍種我們大家一起努力用這個底圖來供我們的政府各部門在協商過程中間的利潤上有一個比較準確的這個理論依據這聯二次長您回答一下"},{"start":640.783,"end":663.42,"text":"報委員,謝謝委員的提醒,我們下去了以後會按照剛剛委員所提示的這個部分跟各部會共同來研究怎麼樣把我們的共同圖像來做強化好謝謝,那這個謝謝各位部長對我想因為這個是涉及到跨部會的那我具有了解我們國安會已經就會就這個議題然後來做一個統整這樣子"},{"start":668.615,"end":670.683,"text":"好,希望大家共同努力,謝謝我們國安部會來參與"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:55:35.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:55:36.689000+08:00","text":"主席，有請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-08T09:55:36.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:55:37.470000+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-08T09:55:37.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:55:37.890000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:55:37.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:55:46.753000+08:00","text":"部長早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:55:48.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:57:02.583000+08:00","text":"今天的主題是國軍老舊裝備汰除期程跟戰力銜接的配套規劃，剛才也聽取了聯三次長對整個換裝過程的經過做了一個敘述，我這邊做出幾個建議：本質是落實不對稱持久戰力，提升全方位的韌性，而原則、目標、方法、手段如簡報，我最後提出的建議是在挑戰部分，因為打裝編訓是我們戰力的基礎，目前在有些裝備缺裝的氛圍下，怎麼樣完成建軍備戰的核心工作，人才很重要，招募不易、留營難，現在編現比很低，尤其是新式裝備回來，原本老舊裝備汰除後，他的人員要接替，會有很大的壓力，因此要給他一個調適的期程、空間，並不是舊裝備汰除，這個單位就廢除，除非是一個全新的裝備，建置一個新單位，那我們還會有實驗編裝，有一個轉換期，合格的教官以及授課服務的期程，這個比較難以匹配。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:57:03.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:57:36.356000+08:00","text":"也建議除了在技術學校基礎訓練班以外，國防大學的陸軍指參學院、海軍、空軍，很多新武器裝備的新概念導入以後，要從課程開始更新，從教育更新，尤其是現在一直在強調AI的技術導入，還有一些新的，如我們講的共同圖像，在操作手冊、準則教範方面都要能夠同步，而且要加快進程，這個是很重要的。","quality":0.748},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:57:37.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:58:10.021000+08:00","text":"尤其現在強調不對稱戰力，以無人機跟各部隊的合作做基礎，實際上在跨軍種中間，還要很多協商、協調、努力的空間，因為接裝的時程不同，使用的頻率、管道也不同，這個部分可能除了資通電軍、通資次長還有我們國內的通訊單位數發部，有些頻率我們還要爭取，因為頻寬還不夠，這個部分要共同努力。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:58:10.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:58:11.762000+08:00","text":"部長，這個地方請您簡單的回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-08T09:58:17.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:59:16.794000+08:00","text":"最重要的就是裝備汰除跟新式戰力的建構，其主要的問題在於我們要接裝之後才能夠換裝，不然會產生戰力的間隙，這個就是我們現在所面臨的很多服役年限逐漸增加，在這樣的情況之下，他還是有一定的戰力，我想我們還是要維護本來就具備的戰力，如果我們認為它確實是一個無效裝備的話，我們現在也訂定了整體的規劃，會逐步來汰除這些無效的裝備，詳細的內容因為涉及機敏，我們就不具體的一一說明。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:59:20.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:59:24.534000+08:00","text":"這部分我們跟部裡面同仁保持密切的協調溝通。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T09:59:25.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:59:36.684000+08:00","text":"也就是在接裝、重疊、汰換中間，有的時候難免會產生人員的落差或是士氣上面的壓力，這個部分要提醒大家共同注意。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-08T09:59:37.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T09:59:58.155000+08:00","text":"是，我想接新的裝備都是非常重要，因為接裝都會有一個過程，所以這個時候要陸續讓接裝的能力能夠擴充到一個程度，但同時新式的裝備可能在某個時間還是要維持。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:00:01.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:00:01.897000+08:00","text":"是，這個要大家共同努力。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:00:03.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:00:22.511000+08:00","text":"下面這張圖比較複雜，最近從5月28號媒體就在報導，日本跟菲律賓就有關經濟海域重疊區做協議，當然這中間會影響到我們本身的經濟水域，但一直沒有一個圖像。","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:00:24.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:01:19.938000+08:00","text":"我跟部長報告，我們現在強調的國軍在建立JCOP共同圖像是戰術性的，這是屬於我們的武器跟sensor涵蓋範圍的重疊區，但是跨部會我建議要產生一個共同性的戰略圖像，不僅止於我們的防空識別區、不僅止於我們各個部隊駐守涵蓋的範圍，這個東西可能還需要涵蓋訓練空域，就是ADIZ，還有民航局的FIR，另外標註領海基線，領海12浬、24浬到經濟海域，所談到的問題其實源頭就是這個，這個是1982年12月10日聯合國海洋公約。","quality":0.726},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:01:21.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:01:28.845000+08:00","text":"經過9年的討論正式通過，這個是原版、第一版，1983年版的，這裡面律定了很多清楚的條例。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:01:29.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:02:12.648000+08:00","text":"但今天這不是我們要討論的重點，關鍵在於這個共同圖像，因為要根據內政部公布的，在民國87年1月21日公布了領海法，領海基線毗連區以及我們的專屬經濟海域，但這個圖不是國防部來標，也不是內政部做出來公布，而是外交部去協商其他的國家、跟周遭國家溝通，我們沒有一個基本的圖像，所以這個部分我們還要建立一個戰略共同圖像。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:02:13.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:02:28.278000+08:00","text":"也就是國安會碰到這種跨國情勢，我們的海巡，國防部、海軍本身、外交部，內政部，大家用這個來討論。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:02:30.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:02:49.409000+08:00","text":"有關EEZ的範圍，內政部公布了總共二十幾點、都在這上面，我提出這個重點在於，圖中心的那個就是，我們當時劃出來臺灣的200浬經濟海域，但是也尊重周遭國家，所以有重疊也有退讓。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:02:51.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:03:26.800000+08:00","text":"再下一張圖，這個圖未必客觀，可是中間就是根據菲律賓跟日本所言的重疊區，在這個裡面我們的海巡在執法，我們的海軍也在做監控，但是沒有一個完整、大範圍的戰略性共同圖像，在跨部會討論的時候，如果是看媒體報導或憑直覺，因為我們平常只有一個小範圍的圖，所以這張圖可以擴大，這個圖的原始底圖原來是航圖，再經過校正套疊上去的。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:03:28.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:03:49.449000+08:00","text":"根據聯合國海洋法公約裡面的第七十四條、第八十三條，不損及第三國利益，我們並沒有建議要同步跟日本、菲律賓談，因為那是他們兩個談，可是我們個別可以透過對口單位表達我在這個地方跟你的重疊區，如何維護我的權益跟執法權。","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:03:54.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:04:20.159000+08:00","text":"各位看右邊這張圖，這是我們空軍的訓練空域，原本是防空識別區，但是因為現在民航局的FIR圖裡面會把民航的航線標註出來，中共的共機擾臺有時候跨越中線，但是它的高度跟民航局的飛行航線是錯開的，所以他是玩灰色地帶的手法。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:04:21.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:04:35.888000+08:00","text":"這個東西因為我們每天有標註共機擾臺、海上的船部署位置，但是我建議把那個圖略加調整，現在是有經緯度的概念，可是跨域旁邊就沒有了。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:04:39.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:05:09.896000+08:00","text":"這是剛才的小圖，各位看，這是昨天跟前天下午，我們就MarineTraffic海上航圖，這裡面就有菲律賓漁船，在紅圈圈的地方，位置並不清楚，進到這個位置了，範圍也是在24浬之外，可是在我們的專屬經濟海域，這個跟國軍的執法沒有關係，但海巡又說超過24浬了，這個是什麼時候呢？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:05:11.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:05:52.423000+08:00","text":"10年前自由時報就登了一篇、5月7日，他講經濟海域的護漁文鬥，這是講法律的解釋條款、雙方溝通，這裡面國防部並不是主導，可是我們建議要有一個共同圖像、戰略性的圖像，涵蓋範圍足夠讓海委會、內政部、外交部，甚至我們在國安會共同討論，因為如果有其他國家的軍艦進入我們的地方做海研、做調查，其實這是侵犯主權。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:05:53.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:12.693000+08:00","text":"這部分我的建議是：這個戰略性的共同圖像也請聯二找海軍、配合軍種我們大家一起努力，用這個底圖供政府各部門在協商過程中間的立論上，有一個比較準確的理論依據。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:06:12.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:13.514000+08:00","text":"聯二次長，您回答一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-06-08T10:06:14.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:24.551000+08:00","text":"報告委員，謝謝委員的提醒，我們下去以後會按照剛剛委員所提示的這個部分，跟各部會共同研究怎麼樣把我們的共同圖像做強化。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:06:26.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:29.834000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝、謝謝各位。部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-08T10:06:29.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:37.240000+08:00","text":"對，因為這個涉及到跨部會，據我了解，國安會已經就這個議題做一個統整。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-06-08T10:06:42.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:44.021000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，希望大家共同努力。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-08T10:06:44.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:44.683000+08:00","text":"是，我們國防部會參與。謝謝。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-08T10:06:45.183000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-08T10:06:48.897286+08:00","text":"接下來請陳俊宇委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}