{"error":false,"id":["169863"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169863,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169863","日期":"2026-06-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-08T10:07:03+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-08T10:17:48+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf4a05d5bc4f1da066d4f42c82880074de6dd124de216d0f20bf4afc9f86a243a6fda1f50879ef4a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"10:07:03 - 10:17:48","會議時間":"2026-06-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍老舊主要裝備汰除期程與戰力銜接配套規劃」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.28409375000000003,"end":2.0897187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.57909375,"end":3.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.64159375,"end":8.316593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.36284375,"end":99.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.35284375,"end":115.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.79346875,"end":121.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.13846875,"end":122.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.15534375000001,"end":124.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.90596875000001,"end":125.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.73284375000001,"end":132.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.03534375,"end":135.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.84096875,"end":149.44221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.86409375000002,"end":170.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.17721875,"end":171.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.44721875000002,"end":171.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.58221875,"end":171.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.97034375,"end":173.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.62409375000001,"end":211.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.68971875000003,"end":212.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.70659375000002,"end":219.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.89534375000002,"end":223.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.26596875,"end":226.99971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.16846875000002,"end":230.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.57721875000001,"end":230.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.91471875000002,"end":231.64034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.02846875,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.66659375,"end":260.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.69909375000003,"end":260.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.98596875000004,"end":276.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.57846875,"end":280.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.88159375000004,"end":295.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.15346875,"end":297.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.50346875,"end":338.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.42096875000004,"end":339.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.50096875,"end":342.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.94784375,"end":395.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.35721875,"end":415.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.20221875000004,"end":417.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.21034375000005,"end":423.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.91409375,"end":433.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.56659375000004,"end":435.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.24971875000006,"end":454.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.46909375,"end":437.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.62659375000004,"end":454.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.04846875000004,"end":517.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.8234687500001,"end":553.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.22284375,"end":575.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.01284375,"end":593.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.6372187500001,"end":575.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.8115937499999,"end":594.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.9253437500001,"end":609.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.48846875,"end":610.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.60221875,"end":633.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.09221875,"end":634.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.10909375,"end":634.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.1428437500001,"end":634.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.5647187500001,"end":634.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.6828437500001,"end":634.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.75034375,"end":640.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.55534375,"end":640.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.6059687500001,"end":640.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.97721875,"end":641.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.24721875,"end":641.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.26409375,"end":643.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.2978437500001,"end":641.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.5847187500001,"end":641.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.6184687500001,"end":641.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.7197187500001,"end":642.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.580343750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謝謝主席 有請顧部長請顧部長部長早"},{"start":9.417,"end":32.793,"text":"是 陳委員長部長 有關今天這個專報的主題也是因應我們近年來敵情威脅的不斷提升那我們看到國軍持續在檢討建軍備戰和戰力轉型的相關規劃不過在尋求構置新式的武器裝備的同時另一個同樣值得探討的議題就是我們有大量的這些老舊裝備陸續面臨"},{"start":35.501,"end":56.594,"text":"這個接受還有太儲的問題那先前我們國防部就曾提出這個無效裝備太儲檢討的幾項原則包括不符合作戰需求還有使用這個效益不彰不符修復成本或是已經到了這個核定受限的操作安全上的疑慮等等"},{"start":57.535,"end":69.516,"text":"那尤其在這次的報告當中也有提到部分的這些老舊裝備已經出現妥善率下降維修的成本增加,還有零附件取得困難等等的問題"},{"start":70.339,"end":99.478,"text":"因此規劃逐步汰除也是我們戰力更新的一個必然過程那我想了解的是這些裝備究竟有哪些即將要退場退場後的替代方案是什麼那相關的這個規劃是否已經有依照我們相關的期程在執行包括如何來確保裝備的這個換裝能夠如期如此的進行避免產生新舊裝備交替期間的這個戰力缺口那對此我想請教部長"},{"start":100.459,"end":123.774,"text":"我們在最近這兩年,也就是115年還有116年度,各軍種預計會完成太儲的主要裝備有哪些?那在這些規劃太儲的這些裝備退場後,國防部預計能夠為我們國家節省多少的維持費?有沒有最新的一個估算?額,公務員報告就是說"},{"start":125.809,"end":148.935,"text":"委員這裡有提到了,我們就說就陸海空軍的主彈裝備的一個太祖的規劃,我們是已經有我們經過這個充分的討論之後然後另辦了以後,那現在要由各司令部來修訂,然後來分聯執行但是要跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":149.935,"end":172.831,"text":"我們這些五年的兵力整形計畫、五年的太阻計畫,還有我們的兵力邊桩的調整的計畫,我想這個都是涉及機敏的部分那個別哪些要逐年來太阻,我想這部分可能如果委員要了解,我們私下再跟委員做一個報告好,那另外一方面"},{"start":173.812,"end":201.363,"text":"是有關我們這些裝備太儲之後的處理作為我想應該有相關的辦法能夠依循處理但是其中包括我們戰車、甲車、艦艇、飛機等等如果我們維護的狀況還算不錯的話還有剩餘價值可能還會有再運用的空間那針對這部分是不是請部長再說明一下我們現有太儲裝備處置的原則是什麼"},{"start":202.003,"end":226.4,"text":"以及各軍種是否針對各項裝備的狀況已經有完整的一個評估,後續再運用的相關規劃?原則上裝備太足之後,我們要依照相關的規定來管辦報費做出帳的作業但是有一種可能性當然就是"},{"start":227.341,"end":241.686,"text":"有可能做軍事原證的部分,那這個是外交部外交部如果接獲友邦請願的話那經過外交部整體考量,認為可以推動的話那我想他"},{"start":243.486,"end":262.3,"text":"過程當然會請我們評估一個可行性,但整體還是要由外交部甚至總統做決定之後我們再來協助來試試但是這些都是屬於相關的機敏資訊,我們沒辦法公開說明有關裝備汰除之後的處置,也請我們國防部務必要"},{"start":267.267,"end":283.32,"text":"有一個妥善的評估跟規劃,避免這個裝備戰力更新的過程裡面,我們產生戰力的缺口,我想這是最重要的對對對,跟委員報告,因為確實大家現在都在談30年、40年等等這些"},{"start":284.181,"end":307.139,"text":"我們確實是有一個不能夠形成戰力間隙的一個問題,所以我們就是要分批皆中,逐步換裝,這個也要請大家都能夠理解好,那對於今天早上看起來很多委員都在關心的,然後我們空軍發生這個出交機的失事,大家都感到非常的遺憾,那也請國防部在"},{"start":308.339,"end":331.804,"text":"這兩名非官的婦婿還有智商以及眷屬後續的生活上都能夠給予最大的一個幫助那也希望有一個完整的調查結果早日來釐清真相對於相關的這個非安訓練上的管理也能夠有一併檢討的一個機制近期也有許多對於出教機更新的討論原本是說122年才能夠達到"},{"start":334.757,"end":362.413,"text":"服役的這個受限所以還在評估當中但我想有必要提前完成規劃的話畢竟從這個計畫定案到飛機的量產到真正的這個行程站立也都需要很多年的時間而對於這個新的出叫機要選擇國造、外購還甚至這個租借剛剛部長您也大概回覆就是要到明年我們會有一個完整的一個"},{"start":363.554,"end":382.875,"text":"這個報告那這部分我想請教部長是說國防部評估訓練的需求那還有整體資源的配置您個人傾向會是用什麼方案比較有可能那分別籌貨的這個期程和成本上有沒有有什麼樣的一個差異再來就是考量到整體的這個資源"},{"start":384.356,"end":393.907,"text":"可能會有預算排擠的這個問題我們有沒有可能會將這個出教機的換裝順序往前最快什麼時候會有一個機會訂啊"},{"start":397.12,"end":422.873,"text":"各位報告,我剛剛先請跟委員說明,大概我們就是明年5月31號以前定案是建案定案,那籌購的策略應該會在那個時候定案那我們117年如果能夠獲付預算,如果能夠獲付預算,那我們預划可能就可以在119或120就可以獲得這些,那如果"},{"start":424.728,"end":452.403,"text":"我想相關的這些籌購的方式,我們就請空軍先做一個分析以後,再報上來核定那有沒有可能再提前?我們今年的禁案期程已經過,我們本來我想他的還沒有接受所以我想這些規劃都還在我們的T34的接受期之內就可以完成換裝"},{"start":454.633,"end":475.274,"text":"好,那另外就是除了這個出交機以外,還有我們空運的主力西凹山洞機隊從當年的雷根總統批准對台軍售分3批次購入至今已經有逐步進入40年的售限期限,相關的升級換裝規劃我們都已經討論很多年"},{"start":478.677,"end":493.724,"text":"近期有媒體報導,軍方打算採取部分商購加上部分性能提升的混合方案包括要跟美方採購實價的西腰山洞街型"},{"start":494.304,"end":516.972,"text":"新型的這個運輸機,而部分相對年輕的這些運輸機,我們將交由我們中科院來進行性能提升那我想請教部長就是有關於我們西澳三棟的這個運輸機更新的相關規劃目前國防部評估的狀況為何,是否已經有定案那就相關的這個採購升級的規劃部長這部分是不是可以進一步說明"},{"start":517.881,"end":542.207,"text":"委員好 空氣參謀長跟您做個報告那性能提升的部分 因為我們之前也跟美方提出來那因為它的工項 能夠提供給我們的工項還有它的時程 預算 那都不符合我們的評估之後不符合我們效益 所以後續我們會用採購的方式來做一個替換那替換的時間 這個建案我們也都在進行當中那也跟委員補充一個報告"},{"start":543.087,"end":558.589,"text":"其實剛剛大家都在提T34這個事情就是說它接近了使用的受限那13棟也是一個很好的例子它整個使用受限其實只到一半有些甚至一半不到那我們就準備做一個替換其實最主要也是安全的考量"},{"start":559.11,"end":585.518,"text":"因為他的零附件的獲得已經在市面上已經有一些消失性傷源的問題所以說不只是性能提升,安全是我們第一個考量的所以這邊也跟委員做個補充那成如委員剛剛講的,我們會分階段來做一個這個汰換好,我覺得受限的部分應該是其次的這個真的是我們飛行的安全應該是要擺優先這部分參謀長您這個部分應該是要掌握精準一點"},{"start":586.747,"end":610.44,"text":"有機會的話我們如果真的認為這個飛機已經不堪用,我覺得就要汰換就要汰換那這個相關的這個建案是否會編入我們116年的這個國防部的預算當中那這個運輸機隊的規模會不會維持現行的20架還是會有所調整那這部分是部長還是參謀長要檢要回覆一下"},{"start":610.92,"end":637.892,"text":"因為明年的預算在今年5月31日之前按照國防部的建案作業規定裡面他是5月31日之前要完成那因為我們也報到國防部但是因為中間有一些品項目前還沒有談定所以說在116年的預算我們目前來不及放進去那我們會積極的爭取建案在明年之前完成然後放到117年的預算好那這部分再請我們國防部還有我們空軍"},{"start":639.214,"end":639.615,"text":"就積極的去辦理"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}