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麻煩副人事長好 請副人事長"},{"start":18.048,"end":21.93,"text":"夫人市長早夫人市長幾天前民進黨辦40週年紀念青年的活動座談秘書長徐國勇面對下面的年輕人他竟然說台灣現在的股市飆破4萬點是全世界第五大的股市"},{"start":34.815,"end":47.938,"text":"年輕人埋怨都是別人在賺,但是股稅早就變成政府的稅收他用社福去造福每個人,你難道沒有受益嗎?這個說法,副理事長您同意嗎?報告委員,我想每一個人都有每一個人的觀點,那我尊重個別的觀點"},{"start":58.462,"end":63.704,"text":"我想你的答案 但是身為一個執政黨的秘書長真的是好一句啊 你難道沒有授意嗎這句話其實非常的傲慢跟冷血啦創黨40年後這真是你們要面對的年輕世代的回應嘛那我現在請問富仁市長你們在冷氣房看這個很漂亮的經濟成長數字今年就說一定超過8%第一季還13點多 這個資料我想你都比我熟"},{"start":84.051,"end":86.915,"text":"可是機場的勞工還有機場的公務員在真實的世界感受如何呢吳岳迪總質詢的時候我還親自問這個卓院長我說排除AI跟半導體的貢獻那到底經濟成長率剩多少他馬上二話不說就說只有2%兩個Percent但我相信比這個還少了"},{"start":102.213,"end":106.276,"text":"事實上基層人民只感受到物價上漲然後生活難度更高所以我當時還請卓院長說你不要只看經濟數字你要去問問基層人員像我自己就是問了公務車司機 問了醫事人員我問他說你可不可以這樣做 學我這樣他說好 他還答應我了夫人市長 我常常覺得政府對軍公教的態度真的是陰晴不定"},{"start":128.289,"end":133.033,"text":"為什麼這樣說呢?去年八月金公教他們爭取權益卓院長講了一句話說再加薪恐怕引起社會的觀感不佳他就直接潑了冷水結果今年風向變了卓院長被問同樣的問題他就說今年經濟體質勝於往年準備要加薪所以"},{"start":149.186,"end":169.706,"text":"可以說軍公教的待遇調整理論上是本來應該要有制度嘛要有這個數字做基礎來做一個評估嘛但左院長說法好像就變成一個蠻隨性的一個政治的語言想加就加 不想加就說對社會觀感當擋箭牌啦所以政府究竟是把軍公教的權益當作"},{"start":171.388,"end":186.763,"text":"恩惠嗎?德政嗎?還是說在特定時刻特定時刻才要釋放出來當作政治籌碼呢?這樣子所以我想我今天講的話我們來檢視一下數字這些數字可能富人市長你也都非常熟悉根據這個詮釋部的統計公務員報考人數從2019年的25.6萬"},{"start":192.088,"end":196.65,"text":"大幅降低到2020年16.6萬整整少了10萬人中央和地方的缺額率都雙雙攀高大概創下超過13這是近年來最慘烈的紀錄那我們再看看全國公務員他的離職各種原因的離職人數從2020年11000多攀升到這個2024年16000多他增加40%"},{"start":216.218,"end":233.83,"text":"增加40個離職率那中央各機關的離職人數也是一樣他增加我數字就不再念了增加38點就是增加將近4成的離職率那我們如果單看辭職辭職感覺上是一個主動的一個做法那從2020年到現在2020年的時候不到2000人那現在是3094人也是增加57.14%這創新 近年新高我剛剛給你的數字都是你知道的"},{"start":245.518,"end":252.099,"text":"都是政府的數字所以政府大肆宣傳今年第一季經濟成長率13點13.69到13.7還說是創1987年以來單季的這個增幅非常得意婦人市長您覺得有多少人是直接直接享受到這個經濟成長的紅綠我強調的是直接因為半導體的產業雖然佔全台灣的GDP大概超過20%那相關從業人員你知道嗎"},{"start":275.183,"end":292.5,"text":"直接受到這個所謂的經濟成長率的這個紅利的人數 你知道嗎 你有概念嗎 夫人市長跟委員報告 這是大概多少就如同剛剛委員講的 就是這個受益的部分當然就是因為我們的產業 其實各個產業經營的這個優勢狀況不一樣台灣當然就是AI產業鏈 或是科技業"},{"start":299.867,"end":312.552,"text":"直接受益的只有二三十萬人我都問過科技新櫃了不到全體勞工的百分之三即便納入整體我們再擴大一點納入資訊科技製造產業就業人口也頂多是一百萬就是說多數服務業跟傳統製造業根本難以分紅到所謂的AI熱潮帶來的紅利那更不要說基層的公務員"},{"start":329.452,"end":350.966,"text":"所以這公務員根本享受不到所以我的想法是說我的建議說政府不要再大內宣你這種大內宣說國家賺很多錢我們是亞洲的第二有錢國家全世界排名最前面但是基層人民他只有反感因為他沒有感覺啊他不但沒有感覺他的這個他覺得物價在上漲啊他的這個生活困難度在增加啊所以婦人市長你認為要怎麼流財勞動條件可以更好嗎"},{"start":357.309,"end":362.353,"text":"你主張這種大內宣繼續下去嗎我跟委員報告一下就剛剛那個有關於院長的發言那個部分因為他兩個時間點不同一個是去年那去年當然是這個所謂關稅協議那個不確定性的時候那今年當然就是我們的經濟發展是比較確定的穩定的狀態這個大概先做一個說明然後剛剛委員提的就是怎麼流採這個部分"},{"start":384.888,"end":407.691,"text":"剛剛其實委員後來的數字其實就蠻清楚的這是全序部公告的數字就是因為有部分是退休所以事實上真正辭職的人大概在過去大概在兩千人現在大概增加到三千人左右我也有資料我有數字你看下面這張圖片這個數字是正確的就是那它整個我還有新的數字整個在"},{"start":408.692,"end":434.349,"text":"整個辭職的部分大概我們公園大概有28萬人左右所以大概整個辭職的比例五年平均下來差不多0.87差不多0.87那這個部分當然這個...副院長你要看政府啊每年都在惡化副院長對這個我們要注意這個的確委員的提醒的確是我們要注意我們一直在關注這個議題"},{"start":435.45,"end":452.768,"text":"那我們現在剛剛委員有詢問到的要留產的部分其實我們是多管齊下在做處理你這幾點很清楚啦不再是鐵飯碗了吧多管齊下一個是待遇的部分待遇的部分當然現在在報考人數待遇我們非常在乎但是我要告訴你整個行政體系的進度我麻煩林市長看一下"},{"start":456.671,"end":479.176,"text":"2016年這張表就說會往法規劃方向走2020年是誰在執政啊這是六月的哦2024年承諾年底要完成但跳票嘛已經過去了2025年又說最後一里路哇天啊這個最後一里路可是真遠啊草案送到行政院時辰大海不見蹤影啊所以還押又押了一兩年啊我昨天查詢那個行政院處理中的法律案軍公教人員待遇這個調整條例草案還掛在上面第157條怎麼樣啦"},{"start":485.277,"end":491.905,"text":"十年了我們還能再拖下一個十年嗎軍公教人都跑光光了那事實上人總人總在113年6月9發函給各機關一個草案版本請大家表達意見嘛這是好的那當時提出的版本我要談的是這一點"},{"start":501.617,"end":526.505,"text":"諮詢委員是21席代表當中基層代表4席學者4個人但我認為應該納入更多的基層的部分翁曉林委員的版本現在目前是有9位縣市公教委員代表然後5位學者專家等等這個部分我們要跟進所以民眾黨因為是我們太早提案了所以我們要做個修正今天我沒有做報告的原因是這樣那人種先前有預告就是說累積消費者物價指數CPI達到30%的時候要進行調整"},{"start":529.966,"end":552.365,"text":"那現在你的態度還一樣嗎?你只要告訴我你們的態度是不是還一樣?我們對於法治化這一件而且參考這個CPI你的態度還一樣嗎?是不是有參考這個?人總的立場我們現在還是跟過去是一樣的應該這個是重要參考指標那我請教婦人市長今年3月的時候人總說6月底要大幅調整公務員專業加急表"},{"start":554.676,"end":572.982,"text":"那民眾黨團也接到這個所謂的公共服務條性連線的陳情他們想要確認一件事,就是說副人事長這次調整大概只有專業家級嗎?團體組張連本縫也要加入計算所以我今天藉這個機會向副人事長確認是否專業家級要連同本縫一起調整這差很大喔我可以問你這句話,你確認了嗎?"},{"start":580.753,"end":607.927,"text":"還是你今天沒辦法回答我跟委員報告我們每一年的這個年度待遇調整我們其實都是通案去考量剛剛委員提到的這個我們的這個因為升月人等於六月要調我們在這個禮拜一六月八號的時候其實我們跟那你有本封放在裡面嗎我們都是會整個一起所以你今天還沒有答案給我們都會一起考量"},{"start":609.148,"end":612.429,"text":"我們做待遇調整的時候我已經把人民的心聲告訴你基層同仁的心聲其實我們這個禮拜一我們跟教育部也跟他們面對面的討論溝通今年出席的非常踴躍"},{"start":624.833,"end":629.917,"text":"因為民進黨政府說過去10年公務員的調薪已經14%但是有跟得上物價嗎這10年來CPI其實累積已經到16點多超過這個調薪的標準幅度那加上行政院監控的17項重要民生物資物價那個漲幅高達21.9就22%"},{"start":646.155,"end":649.218,"text":"所以這個是驚人的漲幅啊可是公教人現在面臨雙重的這個壓力或剝削購買力還有物價雙重的剝削所以現在基層公務員那個委任第一職等的起薪大概你知道嗎三萬四嘛第一到不可思議啦"},{"start":661.832,"end":667.977,"text":"所以這個公共服務這個調整條性連線他就主張說2026、2027年的調整幅度是應該大於我讓你做參考啦6.76他們做一個計算最低底線啦大概相當於6000塊左右那教師團體是主張10%啦所以在希望能夠藉此補足長期落後的這個實質的那個購買力跟物價上漲啦所以基本上這個方向這個方向您同意嗎"},{"start":689.509,"end":717.771,"text":"我剛跟委員報告就是我們其實就是蒐集剛我報告那幾個這個財經指標跟我們的財政狀況那我們在通關條帶的時候其實這個各個項目都會去一併去考量然後剛委員講的所謂那個基層通人的意見或者是這個我們這個委員第一指導的這些我們都一併會一併會納入考量這個基層的表達最後一題照顧基層這件事情我們一直放在心上"},{"start":718.231,"end":721.441,"text":"富人市長今天你知道中時的頭版頭是什麼嗎對不對"},{"start":724.02,"end":742.123,"text":"停侃公教年金只補今年差額啦這個這麼大的標題我想請問全序部擅自曲解全序部擅自曲解公教人員退府條例第37條第38條的條文內容竟然只同意退還修法公布後114年12月28號以後到115年7月易扣的退休金差額而拒絕退還113、114兩年共計24個月易扣的"},{"start":751.425,"end":755.233,"text":"退休金差額啦所以現在我要先請教權序部那個市長"},{"start":756.636,"end":785.317,"text":"你們怎麼這樣扭曲法律啊我都不知道過去民進黨不附屬不公佈不執行是完全不做現在還可以部分還可以扭曲欸你只做這個部分這樣可以嗎你扭曲了這個我們的三讀通過的法條欸報告委員 部裡面也是過也是經過審慎研議啦最主要是依照中央法規標準法第13條還有退服法第95條的規定部裡面也是確認立法院三讀通過的呢你在講你們各位我們立法院三讀通過的條例呢"},{"start":785.998,"end":802.954,"text":"我們就是第二個就是確認退伏法第95條確認114年12月28號修正公佈的退伏法第37條跟38條的內容並沒有追溯的規定所以部裡面只能依法行政就自法律公佈日施行去執行"},{"start":803.114,"end":827.6,"text":"立法行政 我心中的法是立法院通過的法好 你這樣扭起來 我想彭市長我當然知道你今天你也不能夠怎麼樣就是批評這樣子扭曲法律但是我想我希望您心裡瞭解 您心裡認同我知道我今天為什麼這樣子問你啦 權序部確實這個扭曲法律啦那請問 不好意思我再請問一下富仁市長你支持權序部這種扭曲法律的處理方式嗎 您支持嗎"},{"start":830.325,"end":849.932,"text":"跟委員報告 因為這是考試院對於他主管法律的見解見解 見解要壓過理法院的三次通過的條件因為我們各院有各院的職權我這邊也不好對考試院 因為他是一個獨立機關"},{"start":859.342,"end":868.595,"text":"我都用數字跟我們通過的法條來告訴你這個東西這個案子都不能再放了要法治化等等這法治化也是民進黨政府提出來的"},{"start":869.856,"end":874.583,"text":"已經放了十年法制化的部分我們會努力應該很快會送過來不復族不執行已經很嚴重了現在還有部分扭曲都發明了就是請任市長把我今天談的放在心裡面好 謝謝委員謝謝兩位所長 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:11:53.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:11:54.235000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請副人事長。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T09:11:54.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:11:54.776000+08:00","text":"好，請副人事長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:11:54.776000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:12:02.168000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:12:02.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:12:02.588000+08:00","text":"副人事長早。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:12:03.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:12:29.057000+08:00","text":"幾天前民進黨舉辦創黨40週年紀念的青年座談活動，秘書長徐國勇面對坐在下面的年輕人，他竟然說：臺灣現在股市飆破4萬點，是全世界第五大的股市，年輕人埋怨都是別人在賺，但是股稅早就變成政府的稅收，用社福的方式去造福每個人，還說「你難道沒有受益嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:12:29.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:12:30.278000+08:00","text":"」副人事長，您同意他這個說法嗎？","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:12:30.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:12:31.938000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想每一個人都有他個人的觀點，我尊重個別的觀點。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:12:42.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:12:44.303000+08:00","text":"好，這是你的答案，但是他身為執政黨的秘書長，真的是好一句「你難道沒有受益嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:12:44.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:12:45.263000+08:00","text":"」，這句話其實非常的傲慢跟冷血，在創黨40年之後，這真的是你們在面對年輕世代時的回應嗎？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:12:45.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:09.152000+08:00","text":"我現在要請問副人事長，你們在冷氣房看這個很漂亮的經濟成長數字，說今年一定超過8%，第一季還高達百分之十三點多，對這些資料我想你都比我熟，可是基層的勞工還有基層的公務員在真實世界的感受是如何呢？","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:13:09.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:09.833000+08:00","text":"在5月底總質詢的時候，我還親自問卓院長：如果排除AI跟半導體的貢獻，經濟成長率到底剩多少？","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:13:09.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:10.814000+08:00","text":"他二話不說就馬上回答只有2%，但我相信會比這個數字還少。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:13:26.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:27.454000+08:00","text":"事實上，基層人民只感受到物價上漲、生活難度更高，所以我當時還跟卓院長說：你不要只看經濟數字，你要去問問基層人員。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:13:27.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:29.015000+08:00","text":"像我自己就是問了公務車司機、問了議事人員，我問院長：你可不可以學我這樣做？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:13:29.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:29.155000+08:00","text":"他說好，他還答應我了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:13:29.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:52.890000+08:00","text":"副人事長，我常常覺得政府對軍公教的態度真的是陰晴不定，我為什麼這樣說呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:13:53.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:13:56.973000+08:00","text":"在去年8月軍公教他們爭取權益，卓院長講了一句話：再加薪恐怕引起社會的觀感不佳，他就直接潑了冷水；結果今年風向變了，卓院長被問到同樣的問題，他就說：今年經濟體質勝於往年，準備要加薪。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:14:13.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:14:30.483000+08:00","text":"軍公教的待遇調整理論上本來就應該要有制度，要以數字為基礎來做一個評估，但是卓院長的說法好像就變成一個滿隨性的政治語言，想加就加，不想加就用「社會觀感不佳」當擋箭牌。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:14:31.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:14:37.991000+08:00","text":"政府是把軍公教的權益當作恩惠或德政嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:14:37.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:14:43.436000+08:00","text":"還是在特定時刻才要釋放出來當作政治籌碼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:14:45.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:14:59.269000+08:00","text":"關於我今天講的話，我們來檢視一下數字，副人事長對這些數字可能也都非常熟悉，根據銓敘部的統計，公務員報考人數從2019年的25.6萬人大幅降低到2024年的16.6萬人，整整少了10萬人，中央和地方的缺額率都雙雙攀高，超過13%，這是近年來最慘烈的紀錄。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:14:59.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:15:21.239000+08:00","text":"我們再看看全國公務員因為各種原因離職的人數，從2020年一萬一千多人，到2024年攀升到一萬六千多人，離職率增加了40%。","quality":0.596},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:15:22.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:15:29.324000+08:00","text":"中央各機關的離職人數也是一樣，我就不再念增加的數字了，離職率增加了38.08%，就是增加將近4成。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:15:30.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:15:36.849000+08:00","text":"我們如果單看辭職，辭職感覺上是一個主動的做法，在2020年不到2,000人，現在是3,094人，也增加了57.14%，創近年新高。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:15:36.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:15:53.699000+08:00","text":"我剛剛給你的數字都是你知道的，都是政府統計的數字，政府大肆宣傳今年第一季經濟成長率13.69%，將近13.7%，還說是創1987年以來最高單季增幅，非常得意。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:15:53.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:15:54.759000+08:00","text":"副人事長，您覺得有多少人是「直接」享受到這個經濟成長的紅利？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:15:54.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:15:56.039000+08:00","text":"我要強調是「直接」，因為半導體產業雖然占全臺灣GDP大概超過20%，你知道相關行業人員有多少人嗎？","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:15:56.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:16:23.227000+08:00","text":"你知道直接享受到這個所謂的經濟成長紅利的人數嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:16:23.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:16:24.028000+08:00","text":"副人事長，你有概念嗎？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:16:24.028000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:16:25.289000+08:00","text":"大概是多少人？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:16:25.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:16:36.500000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，就如同剛剛委員講的，關於受益的部分，其實因為各個產業經營的優勢、狀況不一樣，臺灣當然就是AI產業鏈或是科技業……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:16:43.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:16:49.589000+08:00","text":"副人事長，我直接跟你說好了，直接受益的只有二、三十萬人，我都問過科技新貴了，還不到全體勞工的3%。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:16:52.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:17:14.833000+08:00","text":"我們再擴大一點，即便納入整體資訊科技製造產業，就業人口也頂多100萬人，就是說多數服務業跟傳統製造業根本難以分享這個所謂的AI熱潮所帶來的紅利，更不要說基層的公務員了，公務員根本就享受不到。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:17:15.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:17:28.622000+08:00","text":"所以我的建議就是政府不要再大內宣，像你們這種大內宣，說國家賺很多錢，我們是亞洲第二有錢的國家，在全世界排名最前面，但是基層人民只有反感，因為他沒有感覺啊！","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:17:29.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:17:34.005000+08:00","text":"他不但沒有感覺，他還覺得物價在上漲，他的生活困難度在增加。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:17:34.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:17:34.806000+08:00","text":"副人事長，你認為要怎麼留才？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:17:34.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:17:34.966000+08:00","text":"勞動條件可以更好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:17:41.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:17:41.830000+08:00","text":"你主張這種大內宣繼續下去嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:17:41.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:17:45.052000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，就剛剛委員所提有關於院長發言的部分，因為兩個時間點不同，一個是在去年，去年當然是在關稅協議還有不確定性的時候，今年當然我們的經濟發展是比較確定、穩定的狀態，我大概先做一個說明。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:17:45.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:18:23.603000+08:00","text":"至於委員所提怎麼留才的部分，其實剛剛委員說的數字就滿清楚的，這是銓敘部公告的數字，因為有一部分是退休，事實上，真正辭職的人在過去大概是2,000人，現在增加到3,000人左右。","quality":0.685},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:18:23.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:18:26.726000+08:00","text":"副人事長，我有資料，我有數字，你看一下這張投影片，好嗎？","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:18:26.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:18:27.867000+08:00","text":"對，這個數字是正確的。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:18:29.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:18:30.390000+08:00","text":"我還有新的數字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:18:33.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:18:48.203000+08:00","text":"關於辭職的部分，我們公務員大概有28萬人左右，整個辭職的比率5年平均下來差不多是0.87%，這個部分當然……","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:18:49.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:18:50.884000+08:00","text":"副人事長，你要看增幅啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:18:51.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:18:53.946000+08:00","text":"每年都在惡化，因為我的時間有限，副人事長可不可以……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:18:53.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:04.936000+08:00","text":"對，這個我們要注意，委員的提醒的確是我們要做的，我們一直在關注這個議題，剛剛委員有詢問到留才的部分，其實我們是多管齊下在做。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:04.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:06.497000+08:00","text":"你自己也很清楚，不再是鐵飯碗了嘛！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:07.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:13.184000+08:00","text":"我們有多管齊下，第一個是待遇的部分，現在報考人數……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:13.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:25.252000+08:00","text":"我們非常在乎待遇，但是我要告訴你整個行政體系的進度，麻煩副人事長看一下這張表，你們在2016年說會往法制化方向走，2016年當時是誰在執政啊？","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:25.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:33.054000+08:00","text":"這是在6月的時候；你們在2024年承諾年底要完成，但是跳票嘛，已經過去了；在2025年又說欠缺最後一哩路，天啊！","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:33.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:34.834000+08:00","text":"這個最後一哩路可真是遠啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:35.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:39.355000+08:00","text":"草案送到行政院，石沉大海，不見蹤影，又壓了一兩年啊！","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:39.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:52.762000+08:00","text":"我昨天查詢了行政院處理中的法律案，軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案還掛在上面，排在第157個，已經10年了，我們還能再拖下一個10年嗎？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:52.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:19:53.863000+08:00","text":"公教人員都跑光光了！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:19:53.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:20:35.587000+08:00","text":"事實上，人總在113年6月9號發函給各機關一個草案版本，請大家表達意見，這是好的，當時提出的版本，我要談的是這點，諮詢委員21席代表當中，基層代表4席、學者4個人，但我認為應該納入更多基層的部分，翁曉玲委員的版本現在是9位現職公教人員代表、5位學者專家等等，這個部分我們要跟進，因為是我們民眾黨太早提案了，所以我們要做個修正，今天我沒有報告的原因是這樣，人總先前有預告，累計消費者物價指數CPI達3%時要進行調整，那現在你的態度還一樣嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:20:35.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:20:38.330000+08:00","text":"你只要告訴我，你們的態度是不是還一樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:20:38.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:20:39.731000+08:00","text":"我們對於法制化……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:20:40.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:20:43.774000+08:00","text":"沒有，而且參考CPI，你的態度還一樣嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:20:43.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:20:45.396000+08:00","text":"是不是有參考這個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:20:45.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:20:49.199000+08:00","text":"以人總的立場，我們現在跟過去還是一樣。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:20:49.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:20:50.680000+08:00","text":"這個應該是重要的參考指標。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:20:50.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:11.180000+08:00","text":"那我請教副人事長，今年3月的時候，人總說6月底要大幅調整公務人員專業加給表，民眾黨黨團也接到公共服務調薪連線的陳情，副人事長，他們想要確認一件事，這次調整只有專業加給嗎？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:11.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:15.321000+08:00","text":"團體主張連本俸也要加入計算，所以我今天藉這個機會向副人事長確認，是否專業加給要連同本俸一起調整？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:15.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:16.982000+08:00","text":"這差很大，我可以問你這句話，就是你確認了嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:24.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:25.694000+08:00","text":"還是你今天沒辦法回答我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:26.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:35.879000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們每一年的年度待遇調整其實都是通案去考量，剛剛委員提到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:38.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:40.982000+08:00","text":"因為3月人總說6月要調嘛，6月剩一半。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:40.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:44.704000+08:00","text":"我們在這個禮拜一（6月8號）的時候其實我們跟……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:44.704000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:45.704000+08:00","text":"本俸有放在裡面嗎？","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:45.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:46.765000+08:00","text":"本俸會在裡面嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:46.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:48.626000+08:00","text":"我們都會整個一起來考量……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:49.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:50.887000+08:00","text":"所以你今天還沒有答案給我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:51.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:54.048000+08:00","text":"會一起考量，我們做待遇調整的時候，全部都會一起去考量。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:54.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:54.549000+08:00","text":"我已經把人民的心聲告訴你了。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:54.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:56.169000+08:00","text":"基層同仁的心聲，其實這個禮拜一我們跟教育部也有面對面的討論溝通……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:56.169000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:57.169000+08:00","text":"大家都聽到了，你要好好想這件事情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:21:56.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:21:56.429000+08:00","text":"今年出席的非常踴躍……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:22:08.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:22:10.735000+08:00","text":"副人事長，因為民進黨政府說過去十年公務員的調薪已經14%，但是有跟得上物價嗎？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:22:10.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:22:48.934000+08:00","text":"這十年來，CPI其實累積已經到十六點多，超過調薪的標準幅度，加上行政院監控的，我想你一定理解，17項重要民生物資物價漲幅高達21.9，即22%，這個是驚人的漲幅，公教人員現在面臨雙重的壓力或剝削，購買力還有物價雙重的剝削，現在基層公務員委任第一職等的起薪大概3萬4，你知道嘛，低到不可思議，所以公共服務調薪連線主張2026與2027年的調整幅度應該大於6.76%，這給你做參考啦！","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:22:48.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:22:51.977000+08:00","text":"他們做了一個計算，這是最低底線，大概相當於6,000塊左右，教師團體是主張10%，希望能夠藉此補足長期落後的實質購買力跟物價上漲的問題，所以基本上，這個方向您同意嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:13.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:24.798000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們去蒐集了剛剛我報告的那幾個財經指標跟我們的財政狀況，我們在通案調待的時候，各個項目都會一併去考量。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:24.798000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:26.199000+08:00","text":"我知道你今天沒有辦法給我一個答案……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:26.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:32.824000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員提到基層同仁的意見，或者委任第一職等的這些……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:32.824000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:33.824000+08:00","text":"副人事長，我今天用數字給你看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:33.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:39.149000+08:00","text":"我們都一定會納入考量，基層的表達也……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:39.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:39.649000+08:00","text":"好，還有一點時間，最後一題……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:39.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:41.751000+08:00","text":"照顧基層這件事情，我們一直放在心上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:42.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:45.421000+08:00","text":"副人事長，你知道今天中時的頭版是什麼嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:45.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:23:45.441000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:23:48.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:24:22.317000+08:00","text":"「停砍公教年金，只補今年差額」這個這麼大的標題，我想請問，銓敘部擅自曲解公教人員退撫條例第三十七條、第三十八條的條文內容，竟然只同意退還修法公布後114年12月18號以後到115年7月溢扣的退休金差額，拒絕退還113、114兩年共計24個月溢扣的退休金差額，所以現在我要先請教銓敘部司長，你們怎麼這樣扭曲法律？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:24:22.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:24:31.984000+08:00","text":"我都不知道，過去民進黨不副署、不公布、不執行，是完全不做，現在還可以部分扭曲耶，你只做這個部分，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:24:31.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:24:34.606000+08:00","text":"你扭曲了我們三讀通過的法條。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭司長國華","start":"2026-06-10T09:24:34.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:24:43.773000+08:00","text":"報告委員，部裡面也是經過審慎研議，最主要是依照中央法規標準法第十三條還有退撫法第九十五條的規定……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:24:45.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:24:46.435000+08:00","text":"立法院三讀通過的呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:24:46.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:24:49.297000+08:00","text":"你在講你們的，那我們立法院三讀通過的條例呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭司長國華","start":"2026-06-10T09:24:50.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:06.934000+08:00","text":"第二個，就是確認退撫法第九十五條，確認114年12月28號修正公布的退撫法第三十七條跟三十八條的內容，並沒有追溯的規定，所以部裡面只能依法行政，就自法律公布日施行去執行。","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:07.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:07.654000+08:00","text":"依法行政？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:07.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:10.155000+08:00","text":"我心中的法是立法院通過的法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:10.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:25.658000+08:00","text":"好，你這樣扭曲，彭司長，我大概知道今天你也不能夠怎麼樣或去批評，這樣子扭曲法律，我希望您心裡了解、認同，知道我今天為什麼這樣子問你，銓敘部確實扭曲法律。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:26.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:31.280000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我再請問一下副人事長，你支持銓敘部這種扭曲法律的處理方式嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:31.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:31.600000+08:00","text":"你支持嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:34.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:43.088000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為這是考試院對於他主管法律的見解，我想……見解？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:43.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:25:45.469000+08:00","text":"見解要壓過立法院三讀通過的條例？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:25:45.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:03.342000+08:00","text":"因為各院有各院的職權，我這邊也不好對考試院有……因為他是一個獨立機關，我知道銓敘部大概也會尊重委員的看法……","quality":0.646},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:03.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:14.658000+08:00","text":"好，副人事長，今天我儘量都用數字跟我們通過的法條來告訴你，這個東西、這個案子都不能再放了，要法制化等等，這法制化也是民進黨政府提出來的，已經放了十年，部分扭曲大概是……","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:15.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:16.861000+08:00","text":"法制化的部分我們會努力，應該很快會送過來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:16.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:18.303000+08:00","text":"不副署、不執行已經很嚴重，現在還有部分扭曲都發明了，請人事長把我今天談的放在心裡面。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:18.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:18.443000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:18.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:18.563000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝兩位首長，謝謝主席。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:19.063000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:21.063000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳昭姿委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:21.363000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:33.077286+08:00","text":"因為現在委員的人數已經滿3位，我們就先確定議事錄，請問對上次會議的議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:33.377286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:36.520143+08:00","text":"（無）沒有，我們就議事錄確定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T09:26:36.820143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:26:39.963000+08:00","text":"接下來請吳宗憲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}