{"error":false,"id":["169897"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169897,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169897","日期":"2026-06-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-10T09:26:51+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-10T09:46:11+08:00","影片長度":"00:19:20","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/dee24285c0428ea522896d83822da49a02c75a4b042dc367a83ef3dae05f682385564259685e84df5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"09:26:51 - 09:46:11","會議時間":"2026-06-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案」案。\n【6月10日會議僅進行詢答】\n【6月10日及11日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.7565937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.99534375,"end":13.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.374718750000003,"end":15.437843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.10846875,"end":19.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.84659375,"end":19.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.94346875,"end":20.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.770343750000002,"end":39.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.83909375,"end":45.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.45846875,"end":64.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.62846875000001,"end":70.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.37846875000001,"end":77.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.68971875000001,"end":106.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.98471875000001,"end":109.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.97159375000001,"end":113.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.81909375000001,"end":132.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.47846875000002,"end":135.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.09409375,"end":138.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.39284375,"end":154.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.53409375,"end":157.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.40284375000002,"end":159.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.98909375000002,"end":160.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.28846875000002,"end":161.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.99284375000002,"end":170.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.26159375,"end":173.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.75909375,"end":182.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.36096875,"end":185.68971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.17909375000002,"end":190.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.24596875,"end":191.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.76034375,"end":196.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.60784375,"end":205.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.15909375,"end":227.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.38784375,"end":252.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.00409375,"end":254.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.61971875,"end":265.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.21721875000003,"end":268.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.79471875,"end":273.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.82784375,"end":299.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.37221875,"end":300.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.68846875,"end":319.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.67721875,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.36784375,"end":334.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.28659375,"end":335.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.53909375,"end":358.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.83784375000005,"end":347.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.10159375,"end":382.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.62034375,"end":362.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.39721875000004,"end":426.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.12034375,"end":429.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.51221875000005,"end":432.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.79034375000003,"end":451.89284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.48346875000004,"end":477.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.33596875,"end":483.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.20846875,"end":494.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.37971875000005,"end":517.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.78971875,"end":524.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.92784375,"end":541.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.53284375,"end":549.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.4809687500001,"end":553.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.90221875,"end":554.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.79659375,"end":566.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.96346875,"end":568.0772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.0772187499999,"end":568.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.51596875,"end":568.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.53284375,"end":569.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.49471875,"end":580.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.4297187500001,"end":593.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.9697187500001,"end":582.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.04096875,"end":585.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.8840937500001,"end":589.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.27159375,"end":595.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.3640937499999,"end":710.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.9578437499999,"end":728.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.44034375,"end":728.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.14909375,"end":729.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.14471875,"end":731.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.96721875,"end":732.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.65909375,"end":738.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.12221875,"end":741.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.8728437500001,"end":742.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.6615937500001,"end":747.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.25159375,"end":756.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.11534375,"end":773.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.8172187499999,"end":786.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.2934687500001,"end":798.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.56534375,"end":797.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.89784375,"end":797.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.48846875,"end":837.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":804.91784375,"end":805.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.79534375,"end":806.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.6853437500001,"end":809.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.74409375,"end":810.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.01721875,"end":821.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.8515937500001,"end":829.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.2422187500001,"end":843.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":842.22846875,"end":843.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":843.3928437500001,"end":843.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.44346875,"end":868.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":869.4140937500001,"end":879.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.29846875,"end":903.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":903.53534375,"end":905.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":906.1172187500001,"end":908.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":909.40784375,"end":909.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":909.44159375,"end":910.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":911.09534375,"end":911.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":911.6015937500001,"end":913.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":913.50846875,"end":925.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.15221875,"end":927.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":928.29096875,"end":936.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":933.64034375,"end":959.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":946.53284375,"end":951.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":959.6784687500001,"end":977.1609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":977.73471875,"end":980.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":980.3840937500001,"end":986.8640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":987.33659375,"end":995.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":995.75721875,"end":1016.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1017.27284375,"end":1019.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1020.0065937500001,"end":1021.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1021.2890937500001,"end":1022.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1022.9934687500001,"end":1048.3565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1048.52534375,"end":1060.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1061.1140937500002,"end":1061.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1062.0759687500001,"end":1063.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1063.9490937500002,"end":1067.1722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1068.1172187500001,"end":1068.6065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1069.06221875,"end":1070.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1070.9353437500001,"end":1071.8297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1072.0828437500002,"end":1073.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1073.3653437500002,"end":1089.9534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1090.8309687500002,"end":1112.7515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1113.22409375,"end":1113.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1113.5953437500002,"end":1124.2603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1123.50096875,"end":1123.9903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1124.1590937500002,"end":1124.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1124.2603437500002,"end":1154.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1132.51221875,"end":1134.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1153.5047187500002,"end":1158.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1155.1753437500001,"end":1160.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1158.9890937500002,"end":1159.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1159.6978437500002,"end":1160.0859687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.024,"end":13.566,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩副任市長請副任市長"},{"start":18.091,"end":39.029,"text":"我先破題講一下因為我剛剛有聽到陳昭智委員的質詢那我當然也很高興能夠聽到我們全區部有講依法行政四個字但是我剛剛為什麼說是破題我必須在這邊跟全國人民報告一件事情就是"},{"start":40.37,"end":64.047,"text":"依法行政 這是行政機關的義務沒有錯但是我們現在遇到的是一個非常離譜的行政院因為可以所謂的不附屬 事先中不執行這個都是全世界民主國家沒有的例子也是中華民國過往到現在包括兩任民進黨執政時期的總統都不敢做的事情"},{"start":64.747,"end":92.363,"text":"在陳水扁執政時代那時候也曾經歷過潮小野大但是只要立法院三讀通過了即使陳水扁總統再怎麼不喜歡他也是必須吞下去必須執行因為民主國家權力分立原則這個就是行政院必須要尊重民意機關立法院所立出來的法律但是很悲哀的非常悲哀的非常可笑的非常丟臉的我們現在完全在走反世界民主的潮流"},{"start":93.143,"end":105.911,"text":"一個立法院民主制度定出來的法律行政機關 行政院可以愛做就做 不做就不做所以我們三讀通過後的東西沒有任何用處當它不附屬的時候 底下的"},{"start":107.231,"end":131.883,"text":"幹部 公務員 就講一句 我依法行政因為他 因為那個法 他從頭到尾 行政院長都不讓他施行 不讓他生效這是我們民主國家的悲哀說真的 走到今天為止 還配講自己叫做民主國家嗎有沒有 世界上有沒有任何一個民主國家立法院三讀通過後的法律 行政機關 愛做就做 不做就不做你還好意思說自己是民主國家 還好意思說自己叫做民主進步"},{"start":133.65,"end":160.612,"text":"所以才會導致出今天這麼多的問題所以我今天破題我先再講一次這一句話整天說我們不審總預算事實上是一本違法的預算書來不依法編列預算的預算書來叫大家怎麼審然後現在在外面整天造謠說不審總預算這就是我們現在的政府我先跟副委員長報告我自己在公務體系差不多25年"},{"start":163.052,"end":191.454,"text":"我真的相信一句話 就公務員強國家才會強各位在場都是公務員 一定會認同這一句話所以世界上很多國家公務員他們都是採精英主義盡量找一流人才到公務體系來但現在這十年政府的運作下去一個蘿蔔一個坑 有人來就好品質怎麼樣 一點都不在乎然後來了以後 東扣西扣國家說這幾年 年年稅金超收去前一年五千多億"},{"start":192.853,"end":205.076,"text":"前面四年加起來超徵一兆八千億的稅金但是呢公務員他有給你調整過嗎他有給你好好的調整嗎有讓你跟上物價嗎你連物價都跟不上更不要講你的生活有改善"},{"start":206.232,"end":226.441,"text":"這就是我現在看到的一個問題所以我們的公務員國家這些骨幹其他國家當作保的這些重要的骨幹在我們這裡完全被通貨膨脹還有過勞跟集體這些壓力給搞垮了我今天談的不是只是調薪而是我們要怎麼樣繼續維持我們國家的這個公務體系的運作就像以前人家講的"},{"start":227.821,"end":253.991,"text":"這國家需要一流的人才來制定一流的政策當我們沒有辦法吸引到一流人才來制定一流政策的時候國家只會漸漸的走向衰敗任何一個私人企業都希望搶最好對一流的人才到企業裡面讓企業更壯大但是我們現在卻做的是讓每年公務員的報考人數一年比一年少然後他只講一句少子化問題但是這不是少子化的問題這跟少子化沒有關係"},{"start":256.101,"end":268.601,"text":"這個少子化只是佔其中一小部分但真正影響的是你整個給他的體制你今天造成的是人根本不想來考 連考都考不了所以你今天齁 我看到你們給我們的書面報告"},{"start":269.861,"end":299.741,"text":"其實我跟你說我希望待遇法治化並不是說替軍工叫討紅包而是說這個東西關係到國家大事我們希望讓它法治化不要只是一個要點不要只是一個辦法要走向法治化給予這些文官法治跟尊重這是我們這次提出修法的一個最主要核心你們的報告給我們啊你說薪資的調整人總會收集CPI收集經濟成長率民間薪資還有政府的那個財政指標等等的"},{"start":300.442,"end":323.404,"text":"但是呢 我們從數據來看 2021到2024 CPI它就漲了9%但是這四年裡面 公務員條件調8%等於公務員不但沒有改善生活 而且他實質購買力他整個是被通膨吃掉 他根本就沒有過得比較好他反而是比以前更不好那這個狀況呢 公務員實質薪資等於是嚴重的倒退"},{"start":324.545,"end":329.451,"text":"那好 那我請教一下 2021年CPI是漲1.97 2023 2.49那這兩年為什麼沒有調性 當年的決策到底是什麼"},{"start":339.871,"end":357.55,"text":"跟委員報告 因為當年我還沒有回到這個位置上沒有啦 那個 副院長這個我覺得官員就是一棒接一棒啦對對 但是就是就目前來講剛剛委員講的部分其實政府在做的也是跟委員講的"},{"start":358.131,"end":382.077,"text":"沒關係 副院長你不知道 我直接跟你說明好了你們對外的說法 2021是說疫情的關係沒有辦法調2023是說前一年剛剛調過 所以不用調那我就說 你們剛剛說 我剛剛點出來你們給我們的報告的指標 講了CPI成長基金成長率 民間薪資 政府的那個財政指數但是呢"},{"start":383.444,"end":411.19,"text":"看起來也沒有啊因為你們給我們說不能調薪的理由也不是前面那幾個嘛好像變成是行政院院長說了算這個是一個很大問題所以因為你不知道所以我剛剛直接講給你聽所以呢立法院預算中心在110年的報告直接就明確的講出來你們調整的理由根本就是缺乏明確的衡量指標那不能夠 你們都沒有以一個具體計算待遇的調整調減或他的幅度"},{"start":411.65,"end":429.446,"text":"也就是說啦 歸論到一句話就是黑箱啦那我必須講勞工 你們對於勞工就完全不是這樣勞工就非常的透明那這個是我覺得有問題的一個點那所以呢 最近這一套操作下去 這些年我們導致了什麼"},{"start":430.558,"end":450.598,"text":"第一個人招不進來剛剛陳浩之委員也有問到啊高普考這幾年報考人數大量減少短短四年少了三分之一耶地方特考更創十年新低然後有一些專業技術職你根本找不到人一些土木工程等等的這些有證照的人他們在外面賺錢就好他根本不想來報效國家"},{"start":452.577,"end":474.428,"text":"所以你們的制度就出了大問題嘛國家招不到人第一個招不進來第二個留不住人113年全國公務員離職退休超過1.6萬主動離職的就3000多人五年內暴增40%我也跟你報告就像我們是司法官出身司法官的薪水起薪就破10萬我菜鳥20幾歲的時候我們領就破10萬"},{"start":478.713,"end":494.214,"text":"這樣子的薪資之下這幾年瘋狂的走人我一堆同學都走光了連這麼高薪的位置都留不住人那就是制度出問題但是你們都沒有在重視我看到的是這樣因為第一線的公務員除了薪資不好之外"},{"start":495.421,"end":524.083,"text":"很多時候比如極端氣候戶外救災然後民眾不滿他第一線要挨罵然後呢在執行公務的時候又遇到一大堆法律的風險土地罪的風險還有來自於政治的壓力所以專業的人就漸漸喪失了他的熱情那很多人走掉人才走光之後我再問一下這個國家怎麼辦然後他就算滿抱熱情進來願意面對這些壓力但是國家又用實質薪資倒退來對待他們"},{"start":525,"end":554.027,"text":"然後甚至最近又還叫公務員簽一堆切結書莫名其妙政治意識形態的切結書叫人家簽一大堆請問國家有把這些文官的尊嚴當作一回事來看待這是我對你們我覺得很大的一個問題啦那你們是不是所以說你們我看你們報告有提到說你們有提一個軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案對不對所以也就是你們也認為這個東西應該走向一個法律案來走嘛對不對"},{"start":555.027,"end":577.182,"text":"行政院這邊其實也是在往法治化方向來走我想法治化以後整個待遇調整的機制會更明確但是這個法案送到行政院之後拜託不要說只是聽組織滿意才能動啦因為有太多部會跟我說法案進了行政院就石沉大海就再也沒有看到了跟委員報告"},{"start":580.984,"end":582.145,"text":"目前行政院排了嗎目前行政院排了嗎所以還沒有排"},{"start":595.475,"end":617.586,"text":"拜託去了解一下遇到什麼樣具體的困難因為你們現在面對的是全國這幾十萬的公務員你們現在看的是這個福利他們的人生他們的規劃他們的福利不要這個東西好像都不當一回事那我們講勞工勞工你那時候修法我記得前幾年立法院通過的那個最低工資法"},{"start":618.226,"end":633.084,"text":"第一條寫得很清楚為確保勞工合理最低薪資提高勞工還有他生活家庭生活水準促進勞資和諧你換一個角度你把它放到公務員來看是不是也是應該要確保公務員合理的最低工資"},{"start":634.085,"end":654.148,"text":"提高公務員跟他家庭的生活水準促進公務員跟國家政府之間的和諧是不是應該用這個角度去處理那當初你們對勞工這樣做你是希望排除掉政治喊價還有選舉操作用客觀的CPI指數來說話來保障公務員這個我予以肯定"},{"start":654.508,"end":669.987,"text":"但是這個邏輯不也就套用在公務員身上嗎你要知道公務員還有貪污罪條例還有一堆特別法來修理他結果你對公務員的保障遠低於對於勞工的保障你對他的要求卻遠高於對於勞工的要求那這樣當然招不到人嘛"},{"start":670.327,"end":697.118,"text":"我想這是一個很簡單的道理啦而且我在那邊我看了那個翁曉琳委員的提案裡面有提到軍公教的調薪不是只有公部門的事他還有具備火車頭的效應所以很多時候軍公教調薪民間企業的老闆才會甚至心不甘情不願就只好跟著調這樣也是帶動民間企業跟著進行調薪這個過往的歷史都是這樣所以我真的還是拜託你們要注意這個點"},{"start":698.178,"end":715.175,"text":"那也不可以說像現在 全國軍公教員工待遇知己是用要點來處理 而不是用法制那我想 四字五七五還有六五八七都有提到憲法保障人民服工職的權利 也包含了奉集請求權"},{"start":715.896,"end":725.983,"text":"也就是說國家對於公務員的這個縫緊其實公務是有這個憲法義務的你必須要保障好這個是你們的憲政義務你認為我講的對不對這是你們的憲政義務"},{"start":730.195,"end":746.702,"text":"跟委員報告啦這個國家照顧公園本來就是政府的職責然後現在其實政府也一直在做就多管齊下在做當然剛剛所提到那些現象稍之後當然是一個最直接的問題的供給端每年這個大學必須能減少"},{"start":748.363,"end":773.342,"text":"企業的這個人力需求和倡望當然這個對國家來講不見得不好因為這個企業倡望當然是好的但是當然公園靜態這部分就面臨比較大的挑戰那現在我們也透過幾個方式在做處理一個是待遇待遇的調整譬如說剛剛委員提到了現在其實在錄取端就是工程類科是有不足的現象其他行政類科其實目前還可以"},{"start":773.942,"end":780.388,"text":"遭到合格的人才那我們就是從工程類科的部分的待遇先去加強接下來我們就要對那個護理師的部分就降低考試難度啦他不是用增加誘因來讓護理師"},{"start":789.276,"end":816.005,"text":"願意來考而是降低考試的難度讓他們呢能夠來醫院面對我們這些病患的時候再拿我當練習題然後來練習啊那就不是就一樣嗎一樣的邏輯啊政府原來邏輯就是一個蘿蔔一個坑沒有人來考我就降低考試的難度對不對然後人才進來水準夠不夠我一點都不在乎當這些護士進來的時候他沒有達到原本要求的水準他直接拿我來當臨床好了啦"},{"start":816.385,"end":826.207,"text":"他們現在就這樣嘛不會不會我現在看到的狀況就是這樣啊護理師自己都出來抗議了啊好 沒關係喔先是多管齊下啦包括工作的減壓包括那個植物類種的調遭但是我說出來的是現在食物上面的問題招不到人 留不住人這個是事實嘛那你講得太漂亮的話再好就沒有用嗎一定要多管齊下去做"},{"start":842.473,"end":860.825,"text":"幾十萬人的重大權益然後我真的不覺得政府有特別注意整天告訴我們我們的經濟多棒每年超收幾千億稅金就公務員你一直在流失我看到的是這個樣子然後我再問一個問題就是我剛剛講到你這個調薪的資料可不可以給我像我剛剛講到的剛剛2021還有2023這兩年你們調薪的資料到底內部文件是什麼可不可以到時候給我一份"},{"start":868.37,"end":868.49,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":869.431,"end":898.268,"text":"我希望資料能夠公開啦因為勞工的調薪的會議資料可以公開為什麼公務員調薪的會議資料沒有辦法公開為什麼要走黑箱這是我想要請教的你們草案雖然有開始有這個意願納入基層公務員讓他們能夠進去開會之前是都沒有之前你們只有用高官來決定基層公務員的薪資現在你們的草案有好那這部分我不再跟你討論但是我要請問一下過往的資料可不可以公開讓我們知道評斷的標準是什麼"},{"start":899.349,"end":927.542,"text":"以及未來草案你們也都沒有公開這一塊那可不可以把這個部分再修正把它公開討論的資料可不可以像勞工一樣把它公開跟委員報告過往是這個會議技術沒有公開但是在宣布條帶的時候會把這個相關的理由都對外說明那未來的部分未來的部分我們接下來要討論的案子就是"},{"start":928.382,"end":950.141,"text":"我們會在這個除了應該秘密的部分不公開之外其他我會跟你講不要跟我講因秘密的部分新知的部分你要跟我講因秘密各自都不要來騙我好不好我公務員幹了二十幾年我也是學法律出身翁曉琳委員的草案版本有特別提到必須公開所以我這邊跟你們說明一下我希望第一個你們要定期檢討第二個"},{"start":953.143,"end":976.857,"text":"要讓基層代表參與 第三個 一定資料要公開第四個 行政院他否決 任何否決 譬如說你不同意加薪等等你們必須要說明理由 好不好這四個點 麻煩你們之後要在家裡思考啦那你之後想要立法院來 我們也會就這幾個點去打去主要去做那個建議 好不好"},{"start":978.037,"end":994.786,"text":"謝謝委員 委員的意見我們會給請教參考好 因為我跟你講我不希望進入法治化之後還是繼續的黑箱啦因為我跟你講我還是要強調最後不好 最後一分鐘公務員強 國家才會強現在的政府是讓一個蘿蔔一個坑就好"},{"start":995.822,"end":1015.402,"text":"程度不行我就降低考試難度有人來就好現在這是政府的邏輯他只要達到他的政治攻擊目的達到他的政治利益就好他不在乎國家能不能強盛所以現在我們遇到的招不進來 留不住人 坐不下去我們要做這幾件事情我們必須要做到的幾個點就是"},{"start":1017.318,"end":1046.878,"text":"我之前也跟你們說過了我也跟第一個考選第二個待遇第三個職安第四個考機就像我跟考選部那時候有說要讓公職招募從等人來考變成主動徵才你要讓他在學校的時候運用各種方式譬如說去現場看去看我們的東西做得多好來引誘這些學生願意畢業的時候從事公職我跟你講如果你沒有這樣做真的留不住人我跟你講人進的來必須靠的是考選的改革"},{"start":1047.418,"end":1065.599,"text":"留得住必須靠的是待遇還有職安的改革做得下去靠的是要有一個公平的考機制度所以我才會說剛剛我念的這四個東西麻煩你們一定要做到不然真的公務員體系越來越弱外面企業越來越強公務員越來越弱"},{"start":1068.274,"end":1089.742,"text":"還有麻煩您一件事情不要所有我們文官的權益什麼都讓政務官壓得死死的很多時候文官才是一個國家真正的主幹再強調一次公務員強國家才會強麻煩麻煩您好不好麻煩您我今天跟你說的麻煩您可以修正的部分繼續修正好不好"},{"start":1090.848,"end":1112.522,"text":"好 謝謝委員好 謝謝簡單回覆委員 委員剛才提那個其實政府都在做包括那個招募的部分我們行政院這邊其實也有推薦我們優秀的公務員一起跟考卷部那邊進入校園去做招募的這個工作那另外我們其實在委員講的那四項之外我們現在也在做工作的降載有些數位的"},{"start":1113.843,"end":1134.257,"text":"包括AI的工具現在AI基本法大院已經通過了我們會在這個框架底下有一些工作降載的方式我們也會再繼續努力不過我想講啦如果有改善這十年不會越來越慘一年比一年慘所以講的天花亂墜都沒有意義我們希望越來越好"},{"start":1134.537,"end":1157.349,"text":"你要搞少子化辦公室要預防少子化結果對 預防到最後我們變全世界出生率最低然後跟我講你們做了多漂亮那個都騙人那個下午麻煩你們派人來跟我回報一個因為我們之前預算審查所以我請你們去跟廉政署那個風險辨識方案請你們主責人來我辦公室說明一下這部分我們有在處理我們跟廉政署在處理我就是要知道進度好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}