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軍公教從來就不是一般的職業公務員負責執行國家政策教師負責培育下一代而軍警 消海巡 移民署 空行總隊等第一線同仁則是守護國家安全跟人民生命財產"},{"start":59.395,"end":87.534,"text":"那如果連這些支撐國家正常運行的人都無法獲得穩定、合理、可預期的待遇保障那我們憑什麼期待國家的治理品質能夠不斷提升所以我記得沒有錯的話應該是2024年的時候人總就已經公開表示將推動軍公教待遇調整制度法制化並預計在2024年底將草案交送行政院審議"},{"start":88.635,"end":98.523,"text":"那如今已經快過兩年了我想要確認的是人事總署的研議工作是不是已經完成了草案是不是已經送進行政院裡面了呢"},{"start":99.884,"end":121.572,"text":"跟委員報告我們提前去送到行政院裡面好那如果是答案是肯定的那恐怕問題不是在任總嘛是在行政院還沒有實施核定還沒有提出院版的草案對吧這個部分我們其實也有剛剛也有報告啦就是我們在立法院這邊草野的委員其實都很關心這件事情"},{"start":121.872,"end":151.614,"text":"我想是院版的草案所以我們也就是委員也要我們有跟行政院做報告我們也有把這些大家關切的情形也都跟行政院報告那行政院也一直很關注這件事情他們也一直在討論我想我們會盡快把這個草案送到立法院來不好意思 這就讓人很好奇了嘛那行政院一方面說很重視軍公教的權益那另外一方面也說支持待遇能夠制度法制化"},{"start":152.174,"end":178.309,"text":"但從你們送進去之後現在兩年都快過了兩年都快過了孩子都可以生兩個了院版的草案始終不見蹤影那到底是哪個環節在卡呢是行政院院會沒有排案還是院內對條文內容還有疑慮還是請你們請行政院明確告訴全國幾十萬有沒有上百萬我不知道幾十萬的軍公教童人到底要等多久"},{"start":178.829,"end":195.474,"text":"還是說回到你們送出去的草案有問題或者是根本都就是沒有被列為所謂的優先事項那如果認為法治化很重要為什麼過兩年還送不出來啊那為什麼如果不重要那當初為什麼要讓你們承諾要送出來法治化的草案呢"},{"start":198.984,"end":215.371,"text":"我覺得這些事情其實大家都可以直接把這個天窗打開來看嘛對不對如果說行政院覺得這真的很重要甚至除了這些政務官之外其他都是公務官 都是公務員那你們自己的權益也要爭取啊"},{"start":217.815,"end":242.612,"text":"所以說我在這邊正式要求行政院啦那不要一天到晚讓公務人讓軍公教童人一直整下去盡速完成審查提出明確的時程趕快送到立法院來不是很好嗎不要每次都說還在研議也不要說每次都還在評估一年過去了兩年也快過去了院班草案還躺在行政院裡面行政院到底要等什麼是不是等物價再漲一輪"},{"start":243.513,"end":269.485,"text":"還是等更多年輕人離開這公務體系還是等大家忘了當初他們有承諾說這個院版的草案要進來如果行政院真的支持法治的話就提出具體時程嘛我們每次都我們因為這個上次我站在這邊的時候特留分的特留分的事情我們也在等院辦什麼都在等院辦那我們也院辦每次行政院每次跟我們講每個法案都很重要每個草案都很重要但是事實上我們感覺到的好像不是這個樣子"},{"start":270.385,"end":281.795,"text":"如果說不支持其實他們如果真的不支持那就慘白跟軍公教同仁講嘛不要讓大家一直等一直等痴痴的等到一個永遠排不到宴會的草案嘛對吧"},{"start":285.225,"end":306.706,"text":"這個案子我們的確有跟院裡面一直也在討論我想我們會盡快把這個案子送過來我想在這邊再請教我們現在人種現行的軍公教調新制度有沒有明確的法律規範呢現行的那有沒有法定的調整指標呢有沒有啟動所謂的研討機制呢"},{"start":309.7,"end":319.714,"text":"跟委報告就是剛剛我在一開始的這個口頭的說明就是在不管是這個我只想問我只想問我只想問有沒有"},{"start":327.259,"end":341.73,"text":"有制度的話能不能列表出來給我們所有委員知道呢這個部分我們會後可以送給委員那我想請問一下這樣的制度是否這制度保障是什麼公式算出來的是有一定程度的公式嗎"},{"start":342.55,"end":367.861,"text":"還是只是比較像所謂的行政裁量跟委員報告我們其實在這個法案的研議過程當中也透過外交部也收集了我不是說現在未來的制度我說現行制度裡面現行制度也是一樣就是其實是符合現在的這個一般國家的這個狀態比較先進國家其實就是他可能會定一個指標那些指標如果到的時候那可能會啟動這個調整"},{"start":369.702,"end":396.222,"text":"那體重調整以後大概就是公務員代表的部分可以表達他的意見、建議等等然後這個最後他的這個決定還是會主政的要去負責目前多數的國家大概是這樣的機制然後我們現在現行的機制大概跟這個是接近我們希望讓他更明確化"},{"start":396.682,"end":413.168,"text":"老師講我們最近常聽到行政院一直不停的在強調說我們過去十年來軍公教已經漲新了14%甚至不斷宣稱說自己很照顧軍公教但我想請問任總這14%的幅度真的足夠反映這十年來的生活成本變化嗎"},{"start":413.948,"end":438.419,"text":"因為我這邊看到的官方統計的資料過去十年台灣消費者CPI物價指數累積漲幅已經接近兩成也就是說2016年你花一萬塊你在2026年你至少要拿到一萬一千九百元才買得到當年同樣的東西換句話說如果一個人的收入成長幅度跟不上18%的通膨實際購買力其實是在下降"},{"start":442.721,"end":464.361,"text":"更何況這只是官方的統計數據我想我拿到的東西可能還不及我們政府裡面拿到的資料更仔細對許多民眾來說真正有感的不是平均物價而是每天都要面對的房貸 車貸 外食 交通跟育兒支出那這十年來 房價漲了 租金漲了 物價漲了 外食費也漲了"},{"start":466.303,"end":485.56,"text":"而且許多學者跟民間團體都指出如果從一般家庭最常接觸的住、食、行來看民眾主觀的感受跟生活成本增加恐怕不是18%是20%、30%甚至更高那這邊的民眾包括年輕的公務員"},{"start":487.267,"end":504.62,"text":"年輕的公務員 基層教師跟第一線的警消同仁來講每個月薪水進帳之後 最大的感受往往不是薪資增加了多少而是錢越來越薄 日子越來越緊那同一時間呢 如果說剛剛我看到中線有把勞工拿出來講嘛"},{"start":505.501,"end":528.856,"text":"那基本工資已經連續十年調升從兩萬塊整提升到兩萬九千五百元累積調幅超過47%但是薰公教調薪十年只有14%副座你認為這樣的差距政府真的認為足以反應現實生活壓力嗎"},{"start":531.394,"end":553.085,"text":"本委員報告我們調息當然考量的包括經濟景氣財政因素包括CPI明天薪資等等的這個考量項目比較多但是整體的方向還是會比較主動CPI成長的部分未來我們法制化也是朝這個方向就是有一個"},{"start":555.746,"end":573.934,"text":"我們的草案大概就是CPI到一定的程度我們就會提供檢討你剛剛有講說要看先進國家那國際之間公務人員公務體系人才流失那其實不是只有台灣所有先進國家都會遇到的問題"},{"start":574.674,"end":592.345,"text":"但是先進國家遇到這個類國安問題的時候他們做了些什麼日本是直接檢討薪資制度新加坡是採取用更有競爭力的待遇來吸引人才歐美許多國家則是改善工作條件降低行政負擔提升公務人員的社會尊榮感"},{"start":592.845,"end":614.511,"text":"因為這些國家的治理人都知道公務人員是治理國家最重要的基礎沒有優秀的人才再好的政策都推不動沒有穩定的人力來源再完善的制度也只是紙上彈兵但是台灣呢當報考公職人員越來越少缺額越來越多離職率持續上升的時候我們聽到行政院院長講什麼把考試變簡單一點"},{"start":616.223,"end":628.259,"text":"老實說這種講法出於行政院院長的口中講出這句話的時候本席非常擔心這樣的思維因為年輕人不願意投入公職從來不是因為考試太難副座"},{"start":628.888,"end":650.147,"text":"因為他們看到是高工時高壓力高責任卻沒有相應的待遇跟保障那如果待遇出了問題不檢討待遇環境出了問題不改善環境人才留不住只會想降低門檻補人那最後解決的不是人才荒是整個公務體系的人才危機會更加的嚴重"},{"start":650.988,"end":671.176,"text":"所以今天呢我們來要推動這個待遇法治化那聽說草案已經到草案已經到行政院了不知道我們還要院會那我們也不知道行政院拖了兩年製造它可以拖多久那可是為什麼要推動這個法治化其實目的不是單純要幫他們加薪而是建立一套公平透明"},{"start":671.716,"end":689.396,"text":"可預期的制度譬如說我們剛剛有可能有提到但是我們希望能夠真正落實入法公開透明當CPI指數累積到一定幅度的時候依法啟動檢討機制至少每四年定期能夠檢討一次待遇審議委員會納入軍公教代表"},{"start":689.936,"end":713.696,"text":"讓基層的聲音可以到進入決策過程而且比例不能太比例應該不得少於三分之一才是讓大家知道待遇調整不是政治恩惠不是到了選舉才想起來這是一個應該是一個制度正常運作的結果這才是一個成熟現代國家應有的做法最後在這邊本席還是要再度強調"},{"start":715.397,"end":735.155,"text":"軍公教從來都不是國家的成本而是國家的資產如果今天連負責行政、教育、治安、消防、國防的人都無法獲得合理而且可預期的待遇保障那流失的不只是人才流失的還有人民對政府的信任以及國家治理的能力"},{"start":735.916,"end":759.872,"text":"所以本席在要求我們人總盡快督促行政院盡速完成審查作業提出明確的時程盡快將軍公教人員待遇調整條例院版草案送進立法院審議因為尊重軍公教從來都不是照顧軍公教而是來投資我們自己國家的未來"},{"start":761.752,"end":780.109,"text":"好 謝謝委員 我簡單做一個回覆啦就是剛剛院長講的那部分 其實考卷部已經有出來說明了這是一個口誤 一個誤解那至於這個流採 攬採的部分 我剛剛其實也做了報告就是他現在必須多管齊 現在就去做處理"},{"start":781.61,"end":802.188,"text":"待遇面 待遇面其實我們從去年到今年其實在軍警消這個老師還有其他公共教練其實年增的預算已經有兩百多億那接下來我們就要進行通案待遇的調整希望更全面的可以去照顧到公務員的待遇的這個部分那另外在植物獵等其實我們跟考試院合作也"},{"start":803.109,"end":829.714,"text":"三個階段調整的7000個職務把它調高讓它未來的環境可以發展環境會好一點包括像工程的這部分也把這個工程機關的委任的比例降低讓它以後可以從高考比較高等級進來然後另外剛才提的那個工作減量的部分我們也會努力來進行但是事實事實擺在眼前每年都越報考越來越少"},{"start":830.194,"end":849.933,"text":"那我們為什麼在今天特地把這個案子拿來做詢答就是希望說我們能夠存取這個法治化的存在委員的意見跟政府是一樣的我們其實還是希望這個公園能夠越來越好我們期待正版這是我們的職責正院版的草案盡快進來好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:46:16+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:46:20.615000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請人事總處。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T09:46:20.615000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:46:25.230000+08:00","text":"好，請副人事長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:46:25.230000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:46:29.845000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:46:29.845000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:46:34.460000+08:00","text":"副人事長你好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:46:34.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:46:53.167000+08:00","text":"今天本席要談的是軍公教人員待遇調整法制化議題，首先以我個人的身分講一句話，軍公教待遇法制化不是在幫軍公教爭取特權，而是幫國家守住治理的品質。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:46:53.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:47:27.403000+08:00","text":"不管是陳昭姿委員還是吳宗憲委員的想法都跟我一樣，因為軍公教從來就不是一般的職業，公務員負責執行國家政策，教師負責培育下一代，而軍、警、消、海巡、移民署、空勤總隊等第一線同仁則是守護國家安全與人民的生命財產，如果連這些支撐國家正常運行的人員都無法獲得穩定、合理、可預期的待遇保障，我們憑什麼期待國家的治理品質能夠不斷提升？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:47:28.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:47:51.200000+08:00","text":"我如果沒有記錯的話，應該是2024年人總就已經公開表示將推動軍公教待遇調整制度法制化，並預計在2024年底將草案送交行政院審議，如今已經快過兩年了，我想確認人事總處的研議工作是不是已經完成？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:47:51.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:47:53.962000+08:00","text":"草案是不是已經送進行政院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:47:55.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:47:57.785000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們的確已經送到行政院。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:47:58.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:48:08.689000+08:00","text":"好，如果答案是肯定的，恐怕問題不在人總，而是行政院還沒有核定，還沒有提出院版的草案對吧？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:48:09.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:48:17.552000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們剛剛也有報告，立法院朝野委員其實都很關心這件事情……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:48:17.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:48:19.633000+08:00","text":"我們想要院版的草案。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:48:22.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:48:37.206000+08:00","text":"委員要我們向行政院報告，我們有把大家關切的情形向行政院報告，行政院一直很關注這件事情也一直在討論，我們會儘快把草案送到立法院。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:48:38.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:00.601000+08:00","text":"這就讓人很好奇了，行政院一方面說很重視軍公教的權益，另外一方面也說支持待遇制度能夠法制化，但從你們送進去之後到現在兩年都快過了，孩子都可以生兩個了，院版的草案卻始終不見蹤影，到底是卡在哪個環節呢？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:00.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:02.482000+08:00","text":"是行政院院會沒有排案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:03.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:05.744000+08:00","text":"還是院內對條文內容有疑慮？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:06.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:14.289000+08:00","text":"能不能請行政院明確告訴全國幾十萬，我不知道有沒有上百萬，告訴全國幾十萬的軍公教同仁到底還要等多久？","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:14.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:17.470000+08:00","text":"還是你們送出去的草案有問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:17.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:22.171000+08:00","text":"或者根本都沒有被列為優先事項？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:22.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:25.652000+08:00","text":"如果認為法制化很重要，為什麼過了兩年還送不出來？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:26.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:31.294000+08:00","text":"如果認為不重要，為什麼當初要讓你們承諾送出法制化的草案？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:34.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:40.647000+08:00","text":"我覺得其實大家可以直接把這個天窗打開來看，對不對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:40.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:49:51.351000+08:00","text":"如果行政院真的覺得很重要，甚至除了這些政務官之外其他都是公務員，你們自己的權益也要爭取啊！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:49:53.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:01.020000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊正式要求行政院，不要讓軍公教同仁一直等下去。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:01.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:07.745000+08:00","text":"儘速完成審查，提出明確的時程，趕快送到立法院來，這樣不是很好嗎？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:07.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:10.687000+08:00","text":"不要每次都說還在研議，也不要每次都說還在評估！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:11.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:17.372000+08:00","text":"一年過去了，兩年也快過去了，院版草案還躺在行政院裡面，行政院到底在等什麼？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:17.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:18.612000+08:00","text":"是不是等物價再漲一輪？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:19.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:21.494000+08:00","text":"還是等更多年輕人離開公務體系？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:22.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:26.596000+08:00","text":"還是等大家忘了當初他們有承諾要把院版草案送進來？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:26.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:29.918000+08:00","text":"如果行政院真的支持法制化，就提出具體時程嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:30.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:37.341000+08:00","text":"我上次站在這邊的時候，有關特留分的事情，我們也在等院版，什麼都在等院版！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:39.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:45.465000+08:00","text":"行政院每次都跟我們說，每個法案都很重要、每個草案都很重要，但事實上我們感覺到的好像不是這個樣子。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:46.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:52.651000+08:00","text":"如果真的不支持，就坦白跟軍公教同仁講嘛！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:50:53.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:50:57.775000+08:00","text":"不要讓大家一直等、一直等、痴痴地等，結果永遠等不到草案排進行政院院會！對吧！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:01.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:07.591000+08:00","text":"這個案子我們的確有一直在跟院裡面討論，我們會儘快把這個案子送過來。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:08.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:16.740000+08:00","text":"再請教人總，現行軍公教調薪制度有沒有明確的法律規範呢？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:18.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:20.484000+08:00","text":"有沒有法定的調整指標？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:20.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:22.586000+08:00","text":"有沒有啟動檢討機制？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:27.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:32.189000+08:00","text":"我在一開始的口頭說明當中有提到，不管是軍人待遇條例或公務人員俸給法……","quality":0.406},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:35.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:35.694000+08:00","text":"副座，我只想問有沒有。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:35.694000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:43.259000+08:00","text":"都有一定的制度規範在進行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:43.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:47.222000+08:00","text":"既然有制度化，能不能表列出來給我們所有委員知道呢？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:48.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:50.504000+08:00","text":"可以、可以，這個部分我們會後可以送給委員。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:50.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:56.549000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下，這樣的制度保障是什麼公式算出來的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:56.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:51:57.730000+08:00","text":"有一定程度的公式嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:51:58.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:52:00.391000+08:00","text":"還是只是比較像所謂的行政裁量？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:52:01.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:52:06.394000+08:00","text":"其實我們在這個法案的研議過程當中，也透過外交部蒐集了世界各主要國家的制度……","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:52:06.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:52:10.255000+08:00","text":"我不是說未來的制度，而是問現行制度。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:52:10.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:52:45.097000+08:00","text":"現行制度也是一樣，其實是符合現在一般國家的狀態，比較先進的國家可能會訂一個指標，達到那些指標的時候，可能會啟動調整，啟動調整以後，公務員的代表可以表達他們的意見、建議等等，最後的決定還是由主政者負責，這大概是目前多數國家的機制。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:52:46.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:52:52.202000+08:00","text":"我們現行的機制大概跟這個接近，我們希望讓它更明確化。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:52:52.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:53:09.168000+08:00","text":"老實講，我們最近常聽到行政院一直不停在強調過去10年來軍公教已經漲薪14%，甚至不斷宣傳自己很照顧軍公教，但我想請問人總，這14%的幅度真的足以反映這10年來的生活成本變化嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:53:10.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:53:29.037000+08:00","text":"我所看到的官方統計資料，過去10年臺灣的消費者物價指數（CPI）累積漲幅已經接近2成，也就是說，2016年花1萬元，在2026年至少要拿到1萬1,900元，才買得到和當年同樣的東西。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:53:29.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:53:34.399000+08:00","text":"換句話說，如果一個人的收入成長幅度跟不上18%的通膨，實際購買力其實是在下降。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:53:38.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:53:46.188000+08:00","text":"更何況這只是官方的統計數據，我想我拿到的東西可能還不及政府部門的資料仔細。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:53:46.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:53:55.377000+08:00","text":"對許多民眾來說，真正有感的不是平均物價，而是每天都要面對的房貸、車貸、外食、交通和育兒支出。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:53:56.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:54:17.877000+08:00","text":"這10年來，房價漲了、租金漲了、物價漲了，外食費也漲了，而且許多學者和民間團體都指出，如果從一般家庭最常接觸的住、食、行來看，民眾主觀感受的生活成本增加恐怕不是18%，而是20%、30%，甚至更高。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:54:19.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:54:36.237000+08:00","text":"而本席所說的民眾包括年輕的公務員，對年輕的公務員、基層教師和第一線的警消同仁來講，每個月薪水進帳之後，最大的感受往往不是薪資增加了多少，而是錢越來越薄、日子越來越緊。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:54:37.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:55:00.073000+08:00","text":"我剛剛看到吳宗憲委員有把勞工拿出來講，同一時間，勞工基本工資已經連續10年調升，從2萬元整提升到2萬9,500元，累積調幅超過47%，但是軍公教調薪10年只有14%。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:55:00.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:55:04.856000+08:00","text":"副座，對於這樣的差距，政府真的認為足以反映現實生活壓力嗎？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:55:09.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:55:36.648000+08:00","text":"有關調薪，我們考量的當然包括經濟景氣、財政因素，以及CPI和民間薪資等等，考量項目比較多，但整體方向還是比較注重CPI的成長，未來法制化也是朝這個方向，我們的草案就是CPI達到一定的程度就啟動檢討。","quality":0.813},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:55:36.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:55:54.737000+08:00","text":"你剛剛有說要看先進國家的狀況，其實公務體系人才流失不是只有臺灣，而是所有先進國家都會遇到的問題，但是當先進國家遇到這個類國安問題的時候，他們做了些什麼？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:55:54.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:56:21.368000+08:00","text":"日本是直接檢討薪資制度，新加坡是採取更有競爭力的待遇來吸引人才，歐盟許多國家則是改善工作條件、降低行政負擔、提升公務人員的社會尊榮感，因為這些國家的治理人都知道，公務人員是治理國家最重要的基礎，沒有優秀的人才，再好的政策都推不動；沒有穩定的人力來源，再完善的制度也只是紙上談兵。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:56:22.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:56:22.529000+08:00","text":"但是臺灣呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:56:23.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:56:30.231000+08:00","text":"當報考公職的人越來越少，缺額越來越多，離職率持續上升的時候，我們聽到行政院院長講什麼？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:56:30.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:56:30.511000+08:00","text":"把考試變簡單一點！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:56:32.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:56:39.833000+08:00","text":"老實說，從行政院院長口中講出這句話的時候，本席非常擔心這樣的思維。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:56:39.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:56:50.914000+08:00","text":"因為年輕人不願意投入公職從來不是因為考試太難，而是看到高工時、高壓力、高責任，卻沒有相應的待遇和保障。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:56:51.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:57:06.127000+08:00","text":"如果待遇出了問題卻不檢討待遇，環境出了問題卻不改善環境，人才留不住卻只會想降低門檻來補人，那麼最後不是解決人才荒，而是整個公務體系的人才危機會更加嚴重。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:57:06.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:57:15.751000+08:00","text":"所以今天我們要推動這個待遇調整法制化，聽說草案已經到行政院了，不知道有沒有排入院會？","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:57:15.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:57:18.813000+08:00","text":"我們也不知道行政院拖了2年，之後還可以拖多久？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:57:20.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:57:21.914000+08:00","text":"我們為什麼要推動軍公教人員待遇調整法制化？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:57:22.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:57:28.897000+08:00","text":"其實目的不是單純要幫他們加薪，而是要建立一套公平、透明、可預期的制度。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:57:29.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:57:52.342000+08:00","text":"譬如說剛剛可能有提到，但是我們希望能夠真正落實入法、公開透明，當消費者物價指數（CPI）累積到一定幅度的時候，就依法啟動檢討機制，至少能每4年定期檢討一次；待遇審議委員會納入軍公教代表，讓基層的聲音可以進入決策過程，而且比例不得少於三分之一。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:57:53.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:58:07.274000+08:00","text":"讓大家知道，待遇調整不是政治恩惠、不是到了選舉才想起來，它應該是制度正常運作的結果，這才是一個成熟的現代國家應有的作法。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:58:08.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:58:31.135000+08:00","text":"最後本席要再度強調，軍公教從來都不是國家的成本，而是國家的資產，如果今天連負責行政、教育、治安、消防、國防的人都無法獲得合理而且可預期的待遇保障，那麼流失的不只是人才，流失的還有人民對政府的信任，以及國家治理的能力。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T09:58:31.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:58:55.872000+08:00","text":"所以本席今天要求人總督促行政院儘速完成審查作業，提出明確的時程，儘快將軍公教人員待遇調整條例的院版草案送進立法院審議，因為尊重軍公教從來都不是照顧軍公教，而是在投資自己國家的未來。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:58:58.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:59:07.781000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我簡單做個回復，有關院長講的那個部分，其實考選部已經有出來說明了，那就是一個口誤、一個誤解。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:59:09.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:59:34.245000+08:00","text":"至於留才、攬才的部分，我剛剛其實也做了報告，就是現在必須多管齊下去處理，待遇面從去年到今年，在軍、警、消、老師還有其他公教人員的年增預算其實已經有兩百多億元，接下來我們就要進行通案待遇的調整，希望可以更全面地照顧到公務員的待遇。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:59:35.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:59:53.072000+08:00","text":"另外是職務列等，其實我們跟考試院合作，分三個階段把7,000個職務的職等調高，讓他未來發展的環境會好一點，包括像工程的部分，也把工程機關的委任比例降低，讓他以後可以從高考、比較高的職等進來。","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T09:59:53.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T09:59:59.013000+08:00","text":"另外，剛才也提了工作減量的部分，我們也會努力來進行。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:00.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:00:13.361000+08:00","text":"張副座，我的時間已經到了，我知道你想要表達你們有多疼惜公務人員，但是事實擺在眼前，每年報考人數越來越少，我們為什麼今天特地把這個案子拿來做詢答，就是希望能有法制化的存在。","quality":0.577},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:13.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:00:24.212000+08:00","text":"委員的意見跟政府是一樣的，我們還是希望公務員能夠越來越好，這是我們的職責。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:24.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:00:25.813000+08:00","text":"我們期待政院版的草案儘快送進來，謝謝。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:25.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:00:25.933000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:26.433000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:00:28.433000+08:00","text":"謝謝林沛祥委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:28.733000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:00:32.447286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請林倩綺委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}