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副市長您好本期今天要請教的在針對今天這個主題軍工教待遇的議題可能在你們這個院版的一個討論當中有三個部分請你們要注意第一個就是關於參與決策的人還有第二個在景氣你們"},{"start":57.649,"end":76.384,"text":"談到社會景氣的一個變動跟軍公教人員實質的一個感受還有實際的落差那最後一個是有關於原住民族在這個退休金月退勤領的這個部分那我想為原住民來做個請命也就是希望你們能夠提早跟提前那在針對這三個議題"},{"start":77.625,"end":102.539,"text":"所以第一個部分也就是說在整個軍公教待遇調整法制化之後基層的代表參與是不是有實質性的問題那麼近期大家都非常關心在軍公教審議委員會的一個決策應該要更加透明那除了你們已經有列的官方代表也要納入足夠的現職軍公教代表讓實際承受薪資"},{"start":103.419,"end":117.645,"text":"物價工作負擔負荷的基層人員真正能夠進入審議程序的一個參與那目前待遇調整機制是在調整方案送審議委員會前那麼你們人總會會同教育部來召開公教團體的座談會"},{"start":119.326,"end":132.595,"text":"但是這個相關意見的這個相關代表的意見呢要轉給待遇審議委員會那麼提供行政院做政策參考那我正要請教一下所以這樣的機制究竟代表這個基層的代表是參與決策還是意見諮詢您的看法呢"},{"start":136.172,"end":151.577,"text":"我跟委員報告就是我剛有報告說其實我們有收集了各先進國家的這個主要的這個所以你們是收集先進國家所以在台灣實際上所謂壽星的相關的這個呃代表你們他的意見究竟到底是參與決策還是意見諮詢"},{"start":153.477,"end":167.727,"text":"現在世界各主要的先進國家比如說美日韓還是在講先進國家本人本席所談的事情我們跟他們現在的做法是接近的你一直在做這樣子的比較但我的重點是參與這個決策裡面的軍公教的代表第一"},{"start":171.61,"end":180.275,"text":"是人數比例的問題第二他們的意見究竟是參與決策還是意見諮詢而已都有參與建議但是最後的這個決定都必須要是主政者去橫走整體的國家資源的狀況去做決定"},{"start":191.2,"end":202.567,"text":"他們如果被你們邀來座談最後的決策只有在行政院內部或官方的主控那是不是這些基層被邀請的人只是來背書或事實上都沒有實際參與決策他們是所謂壽星最直接的人所以你們把他們請來那究竟他們的角色是什麼我覺得你們要很清楚的橫著考量"},{"start":214.013,"end":228.603,"text":"第一 比例上的問題 第二 他們的意見 究竟你們要參與多少程度讓他們辭職是有參與的 而不是感覺是來背書 只是被邀約 然後表達意見到最後意見可能完全沒有被採用這個部分請問你怎麼看這個委員的意見我們會納進去我們的草案的參考"},{"start":236.138,"end":250.725,"text":"好那我們就會就希望能夠在草案裡面看到比較具體的一個回應好那第二個問題你們經常提到未來正院版的這個調整的這個條例草案當中審議委員會成員會列入公教的基層代表那"},{"start":251.825,"end":270.184,"text":"本席這邊也關心所以如果基層代表只有兩成那未來八成如果由官方行政體系來掌控基層代表根本在這個人數上跟你們是不成比例的會不會被多數壓制那麼最後是不是只把原本的座談會改成諮詢委員會那這個部分您的看法呢"},{"start":270.825,"end":282.122,"text":"你們在法制化的方向在比例上是不是可以有實質的參考我相信其他委員應該有提過那本席所提到的比例上的問題不會一開始就產生不公平的這個狀況您的看法呢"},{"start":285.407,"end":306.827,"text":"跟委員報告 這個其實應該說不用去擔心所謂政府掌控的問題因為這裡面也有中央各部會我們大概就是軍公教勞工國家發展委員會 當然是有中央各部會但是我們是行政議題嘛他們其實是代表各個不同領域的人"},{"start":307.688,"end":333.579,"text":"那另外還有地方政府的代表我們也知道我們的國家其實每個地方的政府代表這個執政的黨派也不會都一樣所以這個另外學者專家其實我這邊談的啦基層的代表請你們我就直接講希望你們未來在這個整個條例裡面在基層代表的比例不要讓這個比例在一開始就居於不公義跟不公平的狀態好不好這個部分請你們在條例草案裡面務必很清楚的"},{"start":337.341,"end":353.921,"text":"然後來考量分細緻一點考量那第二個部分本席這邊要請教景氣落差的景氣的成長跟軍公教基本薪資調整的這個落差那前面我們也談到軍公教待遇的一個機制應該要公平公開透明這調整的這個部分"},{"start":355.162,"end":360.484,"text":"那麼讓基層實時來參與審議那接下來本期要請教的是待遇能不能調整不能只看行政院內部的這個決策要回到整體經濟物價壓力跟壽星階級實時的取得跟感受剛才林委員林沛翔委員也提到那你們經常都提這個這十幾年來我們的景氣是最好但是真的"},{"start":380.731,"end":393.36,"text":"公教人員跟一般民眾的感受是激進於零這在薪資的部分所以根據主計總署你們的數據那麼去年2005年2025年那麼全年經濟成長率達到了很高8.63%那麼你們都一直標榜創下15年來的新高那主計總署也認為國內的景氣在穩健上升那麼2026年的經濟成長率那麼也預估是9.64%"},{"start":408.271,"end":434.084,"text":"那麼如果就這些數據來做一個比較分析那麼政府對外傳達的訊息就是說景氣很好 很亮眼但是呢 本時要請教主計總署那為什麼景氣數字這麼好那麼人民卻感受不到薪資的成長那麼在2026年軍公教的待遇調整有沒有納入預算那麼基本工資的調整有受到壓縮那這跟政府所在講的經濟成長成果有很大的落差"},{"start":434.764,"end":445.612,"text":"那你們對於這樣目前不調心的說法是政府面臨多重的一個挑戰包括關稅對外的出口跟產業競爭力的壓力但是你們主計總署對2026年的預測已經將總體的這個相關因素都納入了結果你們估計成長率可以至少還可以達3.54%談到剛才9點多跟3點多的一個落差那為什麼會有這樣一個決策落差"},{"start":461.651,"end":481.569,"text":"委員好 跟委員報告就是我們115年度其實每一個年度我們都是去看人事總書是不是有提出條新的一個方案那再經過行政院會綜合考量整個這個我們知道啦那請問可以先針對你們這個剛才我們講到的這個景氣的這個落差的percentage你可以先做一個回應嗎"},{"start":482.645,"end":501.978,"text":"景氣的落差你們對2026年的預測那你們原先講到這個調薪停滯的這個問題是因為本席剛才所羅列的這一些因素那但是這些因素你們都在考慮進去還有3.54%你們原先不是要9點多嗎那現在是3.54那這個落差為什麼會有這樣一個落差"},{"start":503.472,"end":527.679,"text":"不好意思 因為這個部分可能涉及到統計的這個方面啦因為這個部分可能就不是我這邊專業的那你們是不是要把這個相關的這個資料 數據跟分析給本席嗎因為本席有看到你們在預測的這個落差跟因素調整進去你們在談到說那調心的這個部分的困難是因為有本席剛才所講的那些因素的這個影響"},{"start":529.12,"end":552.915,"text":"但是事實上你們還是有3.54成長的預估所以對於調薪的困難跟這個落差有關係嗎所以本席想要問你們在這個落差你們都已經考慮進去之後還認為軍公教育的調薪有困難這個困難我們必須透過一個交叉比對了解困難的原因在哪裡"},{"start":553.615,"end":581.843,"text":"跟委員說明就是因為經濟的預測它是一直在變動的那當然是近期因為經濟表現越來越好所以它的那個預測會再往上提升那當時我們在編預算的時候確實會依照當時的經濟成長的一個情況那去綜合考量我們整個財政狀況所以本席認同如果如你們預測的那麼高那軍公教待遇不管怎麼樣你應該要同時間去考量這個等比的往上提嘛"},{"start":582.583,"end":601.419,"text":"一直有這個困難大家各界提出來之後你們的這個原因說困難的原因基本上就算有困難的原因它還是往上提的那你們就往上提的這樣一個指數是不是應該來跟軍公教調新的這個比例也再做一個比較呢這個部分是不是可以請你們給本席提出一個比較細節性的書面報告好"},{"start":605.661,"end":630.934,"text":"我再請教兩個問題那麼你們是不是認為目前台灣經濟成長的成果有充分反映在壽星階級的實質薪資上然後第二個部分是那你們在提供行政院薪資政策跟總預算編列參考的時候有沒有將實質薪資物價壓力軍工教留才還有最低工資的審議跟所得分配納入整體的評估不是只有看所謂的財政壓力"},{"start":632.355,"end":649.213,"text":"那這邊我本席的提醒是你們經濟成長不能只停留在統計的數字也不是說GDP很亮眼但是一般的軍公教人員跟一般勞工感受其實是激進於零所以你可不可以是先對本席剛才所講那兩點很簡短的做一個回應"},{"start":650.757,"end":655.12,"text":"就是有關委員剛剛講的這個經濟成長的這個狀況因為這個可能就是持續在滾動檢討的那我們當然預算籌編的時候一定會用當時經濟預測的一個推估去通盤考量"},{"start":665.305,"end":688.083,"text":"所以你是不是會後給本席補一個剛才本席所講的實質薪資物價壓力還有軍公教流財最低薪資審印跟所得的這個分配這個部分也納入剛才本席所跟你提的你們在這個GDP的成長然後跟對公教人員的調薪的一個比對落差那把實質的一個回應給本席好不好是"},{"start":689.204,"end":696.11,"text":"好那最後本席要為那個接下來本席請一下這個情緒部謝謝"},{"start":699.653,"end":720.804,"text":"那主席總書就麻煩你們不僅是統計的這個數值那統計的分析跟比較的落差本席希望能夠看到這樣子一個回應 好嗎好 謝謝委員好好 情緒部本席這邊要為原住民族的這個公務人員月退勤領的條件來請命那這個部分也會跟原鄉人力回流有一些關係"},{"start":722.145,"end":737.291,"text":"那麼在這個我們月退制度能不能反映不同族群的生命歷程就會從你們在對於原住民族公務人員月退金請領的年齡所反映出來那本席在這邊我認為你們應該先做一個適度的調整"},{"start":737.811,"end":759.061,"text":"那重點就是說,你們在115年退休可支領月退金的這個條件裡面,針對原住民族的公務人員,月退金請免的條件還是60歲。那本席認為,如果參照原住民族的平均餘命,跟社會福利制度的邏輯,那麼年齡的門檻,其實在你們的部分應該有一個檢討的空間。"},{"start":760.602,"end":775.428,"text":"也就是說那個113年我們看這個原住民族的生命表那麼原住民族平均餘命是73.23歲就73歲左右那男性是68歲那女性是77.78那麼相較於全國的平均餘命都比較低"},{"start":775.828,"end":797.563,"text":"整體低了原住民族整體低了7.54歲那麼原住民族的男性更低於全國平均壽命11歲所以這樣的差距在反映在原住民族的健康工作跟社會環境還有社會條件上的一個長期不利的處境那這樣也因為這樣許多社會福利制度也已經把原住民族老人的標準"},{"start":798.283,"end":821.512,"text":"定為55歲而不是一般的所謂65歲那所以本席認為這個退休金給予的退休給付的這個問題也涉及到原住民族投入公職跟返鄉回流的服務那目前本席是針對這個問題是跨部會的有在做這個分析那麼整個原鄉整體發展"},{"start":822.872,"end":837.859,"text":"55歲到60歲之間的原住民公務人員還很有豐富的行政經驗公共事務的能力跟部落的連結如果他們能夠在比較合理的年齡來退休那有穩定的退休金來支持那麼在不太有經濟壓力的情況下"},{"start":840.38,"end":864.326,"text":"來投入回流投入部落原鄉的這個公共事務文化的傳承跟地方創生那麼還有災防社區照顧跟青年賠率的這個部分那是原鄉人才回流很重要的一個方式跟策略所以本席來請教你們兩個問題全序部是不是可以參考比較原住民族平均餘命的社會福利的制度邏輯"},{"start":865.706,"end":885.883,"text":"研議將原住民族的公務人員可支領的月退薪資的條件拉到55歲那麼針對原住民族男性平均餘命也明顯低於全國11歲的這個情況呢可以做更細緻的政策評估而不是只用一般公務人員退休制度的框架來做處理"},{"start":886.624,"end":911.134,"text":"第二個部分是不是可以麻煩你們來會同原民會人事行政總署及相關機關來評估一下原住民公務人員提前退休後那投入原鄉公共服務部落治理跟地方發展的制度權衡跟銜接那這個部分是不是請你可以就說明那今天最主要訴求就是原住民族的公務人員退休經勤領年齡"},{"start":912.615,"end":932.808,"text":"是否可以延逸來提前到55歲並進行政策評估跟執行謝謝委員寶貴的意見那委員的這個意見大概涉及到比較涉及到政策決定或是在做細部的一個評估那我會把委員的意見帶回去跟部長報告然後再請相關的主管是再研究看看"},{"start":933.669,"end":948.315,"text":"那本席也希望你們能夠在會後針對本席講的這個議題不管是你們內部或者是跟外部的一個諮詢可能也可以就會同相關單位來來處理本席所談到的平均餘命的問題還有部落"},{"start":950.916,"end":975.785,"text":"部落回流這個人才回流在這個制度的一個規劃跟設計下其實是可以達到兩鄉這個都有好處的一個狀態好不好那就麻煩你們那也比較請那個可不可以有比較具體的回應報告在一個月內至少給本席一個你們討論的方向跟可能性好不好書面喔可以嗎好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:53.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:00:54.078000+08:00","text":"（10時）謝謝我們的主席、翁召委。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:00:56.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:01:07.656000+08:00","text":"針對今天的議題，我先請張副人事長，稍後也請主計總處代表嚴視察做個準備。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T10:01:07.656000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:01:09.049000+08:00","text":"請兩位。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:01:09.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:01:09.049000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:01:10.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:01:11.071000+08:00","text":"副人事長你好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:01:14.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:01:50.923000+08:00","text":"針對今天軍公教待遇的議題，可能在你們院版的討論當中，有三個部分要請你們注意：第一個，關於參與決策的人；第二個，你們談到社會景氣的變動跟軍公教人員實質的感受還有實際的落差；最後一個，有關於原住民族在退休金月退請領的部分，我想為原住民做個請命，也就是希望你們能夠提早跟提前。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:01:52.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:02:26.142000+08:00","text":"針對這三個議題，關於第一個部分，也就是說，在整個軍公教待遇調整法制化之後，基層的代表參與是不是有實質性的問題，近期大家都非常關心，軍公教審議委員會的決策應該要更加透明，除了你們已經有列入的官方代表外也要納入足夠的現職軍公教代表，讓實際承受薪資、物價、工作負擔、負荷的基層人員，能夠真正進入審議程序的參與。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:02:26.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:02:43.071000+08:00","text":"目前待遇調整機制是調整方案送審議委員會前，你們人總會會同教育部來召開公教團體的座談會，但是相關代表的意見要轉給待遇審議委員會，提供行政院做政策參考。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:02:43.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:02:48.575000+08:00","text":"我再請教一下，在這樣的機制下，究竟基層的代表是參與決策還是意見諮詢，您的看法呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:02:52.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:02:57.614000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我剛有報告說，其實我們有蒐集各先進國家主要的待遇調整方式，然後我們當然也是先進國家之一……","quality":0.543},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:02:58.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:07.577000+08:00","text":"你們是有蒐集先進國家相關的資料，所以在臺灣實際上所謂受薪代表的意見，到底是在參與決策還是意見諮詢？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:09.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:13.900000+08:00","text":"現在各主要先進國家，譬如說美、日、韓……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:13.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:16.822000+08:00","text":"你還是在講先進國家，本席談的是……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:17.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:19.564000+08:00","text":"我們跟他們現在的做法是接近的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:19.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:34.113000+08:00","text":"你一直在做這樣的比較，但我的重點是參與這個決策裡面的軍公教代表：第一，人數比例的問題；第二，他們的意見究竟是參與決策還是意見諮詢，就這樣而已，可不可以就這個部分來做回應？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:34.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:34.894000+08:00","text":"都有參與建議……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:34.894000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:35.894000+08:00","text":"到最後還是只有建議而已？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:34.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:03:36.254000+08:00","text":"但是最後的決定還是由主政者衡酌整體國家資源狀況去做決定，現在我們蒐集的狀況是這樣。","quality":0.59},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:03:47.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:04:23.982000+08:00","text":"現在本席今天要談的重點是，他們如果被你們邀來座談，最後的決策只有在行政院內部或官方的主控上，那是不是這些基層被邀請的人只是來背書，就是事實上都沒有實際參與決策，但他們是所謂受薪最直接的人，所以你們把他們請來，而他們的角色究竟是什麼，我覺得你們要很清楚的衡酌、考量：第一，比例上的問題；第二，他們的意見，究竟有多少程度是你們讓他們可以實質參與的，而不是感覺上就是來背書、只是被邀約來表達意見，到最後意見可能完全沒有被採用。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:04:24.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:04:24.182000+08:00","text":"這個部分請問你怎麼看？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:04:24.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:04:24.583000+08:00","text":"委員的意見會納進去我們草案的參考。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:04:32.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:04:36.720000+08:00","text":"好，我們希望能夠在草案裡面看到比較具體的回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:04:37.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:05:04.963000+08:00","text":"第二個問題，你們今天有提到未來政院版的調整條例草案當中，審議委員會成員會列入公教的基層代表，本席這邊也很關心，如果基層代表只有兩成，未來八成由官方行政體系來掌控，則基層代表在人數上根本跟你們是不成比例的，這樣一來會不會被多數壓制，最後是不是只把原本的座談會改成諮詢委員會？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:05:05.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:05:06.164000+08:00","text":"這個部分您的看法呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:05:06.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:05:18.102000+08:00","text":"你們在法制化的方向上，在比例上是不是可以實質參考本席所提的比例問題，如此才不會一開始就產生不公平的狀況，我相信其他委員應該也有提過這個問題，您的看法呢？","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:05:21.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:05:36.601000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，應該是說不用去擔心所謂政府掌控的問題，因為這裡面有中央各部會、軍公教、勞工代表、國家發展委員會、主計總處……","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:05:36.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:05:39.484000+08:00","text":"當然是有中央各部會，但是我們是行政一體嘛！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:05:39.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:05:42.807000+08:00","text":"他們是代表各個不同領域的人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:05:44.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:05:55.553000+08:00","text":"另外，還有地方政府代表，我們也知道我們國家每個地方的政府代表，執政的黨派也不會都一樣；再來，還有學者專家的部分是以專業……","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:05:55.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:06:08.339000+08:00","text":"其實我這邊談的是基層的代表，我就直接講好了，希望你們未來在這整個條例裡面，基層代表比例的部分，不要讓這個比例在一開始就居於不公義跟不公平的狀態，好不好？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:06:08.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:06:09.339000+08:00","text":"會讓其有一定的比例。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:06:08.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:06:15.604000+08:00","text":"這個部分請你們在條例草案裡面務必很清楚的規定，然後有更細緻一點的考量。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:06:16.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:06:31.302000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，本席要請教景氣成長跟軍公教基本薪資調整的落差，前面我們也談到軍公教待遇調整的機制應該要公平、公開、透明，然後基層要能實質參與審議。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:06:31.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:07:02.715000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要請教的是，待遇能不能調整，不能只看行政院內部的決策，要回到整體經濟、物價壓力跟受薪階級實實的取得跟感受，剛才林沛祥委員也提到，你們經常提到這十幾年來我們的景氣是最好的，但是公教人員跟一般民眾的感受是幾近於零，這是薪資的部分。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:07:03.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:07:06.118000+08:00","text":"根據主計總處的數據，2025（去）年全年經濟成長率達到了8.63%，很高！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:07:06.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:07:39.459000+08:00","text":"你們都一直標榜這創下15年來的新高，但主計總處也認為國內的景氣在穩健上升，2026年的經濟成長率預估是9.64%，如果就這些數據來做一個比較、分析，政府對外傳達的訊息是景氣很好、很亮眼，但是本席要請教主計總處，景氣數字這麼好，為什麼人民會感受不到薪資的成長？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:07:40.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:07:42.480000+08:00","text":"2026年軍公教的待遇調整有沒有納入預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:07:43.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:08:00.991000+08:00","text":"基本工資的調整也受到壓縮，這跟政府所在講的經濟成長成果有很大的落差，你們對於這樣目前不調薪的說法是因為政府面臨多重的挑戰，包括關稅、對外的出口跟產業競爭力的壓力，但是你們主計總處對2026年的預測，已經將總體相關因素都納入了，結果你們估計成長率至少還可以達3.54%。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:08:01.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:08:01.592000+08:00","text":"剛才的9.64%跟現在的3.54%，為什麼會有這樣一個決策的落差？","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"嚴簡任視察于屏","start":"2026-06-10T10:08:17.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:08:17.891000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴簡任視察于屏","start":"2026-06-10T10:08:18.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:08:29.302000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，不只是115年度，其實每一個年度我們都是去看人事總處是不是有提出調薪的方案，再經過行政院會綜合考量整個……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:08:29.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:08:37.569000+08:00","text":"這個我們知道，針對剛才我們講到景氣成長率有落差的問題，你可以先做一個回應嗎？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"嚴簡任視察于屏","start":"2026-06-10T10:08:38.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:08:39.786000+08:00","text":"景氣的落差……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:08:41.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:08:57.958000+08:00","text":"對於2026年的預測，你們原先講到調薪停滯是因為本席剛才所羅列的這一些因素，但是這些因素你們都考慮進去後還有3.54%，你們原先預估是百分之九點多，現在是3.54%，請問為什麼會有這樣一個落差？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"嚴簡任視察于屏","start":"2026-06-10T10:08:59.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:09:05.914000+08:00","text":"不好意思，委員，因為這個部分可能涉及到統計的方面，可能就不是我這邊所專業的……","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:09:06.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:09:11.736000+08:00","text":"你們是不是要把相關的資料、數據跟分析提供給本席？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:09:12.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:09:48.915000+08:00","text":"因為本席看到你們在預測上有落差，但你們有把這些因素考量進去，即你們談到調薪上有困難，是因為本席剛才所講的那些因素的影響，但是事實上你們還是預估有3.54%的成長，所以調薪的困難跟這個落差是有關係的，本席想要問你們這個落差你們都已經考慮進去之後，然後還認為軍公教的調薪有困難，針對這個困難，我們必須透過一個交叉比對，了解困難的原因在哪裡嘛！","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"嚴簡任視察于屏","start":"2026-06-10T10:09:49.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:10:09.040000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，因為經濟的預測是一直在變動的，當然因為近期經濟表現越來越好，所以那個預測會再往上提升，我們在編預算的時候確實會依照當時經濟成長的情況去綜合考量我們整個財政狀況……","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:10:09.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:10:17.823000+08:00","text":"對，本席認同，如果如你們預測的那麼高，對於軍公教的待遇，不管怎麼樣，你應該要同時間去考量等比的往上提嘛！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:10:18.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:10:32.635000+08:00","text":"一直有這個困難，在各界提出來之後，你們說有困難，基本上就算有困難，它還是往上提的，那你們就這樣一個往上提的指數是不是應該跟軍公教調薪的比率再做一個比較呢？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:10:33.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:10:37.158000+08:00","text":"這個部分是不是可以請你們向本席提出一個比較細節性的書面報告？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:10:37.158000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:10:43.022000+08:00","text":"會後補來好不好？是。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺：我再請教兩個問題","start":"2026-06-10T10:10:43.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:10:50.246000+08:00","text":"第一個，你們認為目前臺灣經濟成長的成果是不是有充分反映在受薪階級的實質薪資上？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺：我再請教兩個問題","start":"2026-06-10T10:10:51.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:11:06.914000+08:00","text":"第二個，你們在提供行政院薪資政策跟總預算編列參考的時候，有沒有將實質薪資、物價壓力、軍公教留才還有最低工資的審議跟所得分配納入整體的評估而不是只有看所謂的財政壓力？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺：我再請教兩個問題","start":"2026-06-10T10:11:09.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:11:25.213000+08:00","text":"本席要提醒你們，經濟成長不能只停留在統計的數字，也不能說GDP很亮眼，但是一般的軍公教人員跟一般勞工的感受其實是幾近於零，你可不可以先對本席剛才所講的那兩點很簡短的做一個回應？","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"嚴簡任視察于屏","start":"2026-06-10T10:11:27.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:11:31.100000+08:00","text":"有關委員剛剛講的經濟成長狀況，因為這個可能就是持續在滾動檢討，我們在預算籌編的時候當然一定會用當時經濟預測的推估去通盤考量……","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:11:41.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:11:43.547000+08:00","text":"你是不是會後給本席補一個報告？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:11:43.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:12:04.063000+08:00","text":"包括剛才本席所講的實質薪資、物價壓力還有軍公教留才、最低薪資審議跟所得分配等部分，也納入剛才本席所提的，就是你們對GDP成長跟公教人員調薪的比對跟兩者之間的落差，給本席實質的回應，好不好？是。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:12:16.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:12:25.698000+08:00","text":"麻煩主計總處，不僅是統計的數值，還有統計的分析跟比較兩者的落差，本席希望能夠看到這方面的回應，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.723},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:12:25.698000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:12:26.698000+08:00","text":"最後，本席要請銓敘部，謝謝。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"彭司長國華","start":"2026-06-10T10:12:26.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:12:26.959000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:12:27.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:13:15.061000+08:00","text":"本席在這邊要為原住民族公務人員月退請領的條件來跟銓敘部請命，這個部分也跟原鄉人力回流有一些關係，我們的月退制度能不能反映不同族群的生命歷程，可以從你們對原住民族公務人員月退金請領的年齡看出來，本席認為你們應該先適度的做一個調整，重點就是在你們所定115年退休可支領月退金的條件裡面，針對原住民族公務人員月退金請領的條件還是60歲，但是本席認為參照原住民族的平均餘命跟社會福利制度的邏輯，你們定的這個年齡門檻其實應該有一個檢討的空間。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:13:18.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:13:40.394000+08:00","text":"我們來看原住民族的平均壽命表，在113年原住民族平均餘命是73.23歲，就是73歲左右，男性是68歲，女性是77.78歲，相較於全國的平均餘命都比較低，原住民族整體低了7.54歲，原住民族的男性更低於全國平均壽命11歲。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:13:40.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:13:59.105000+08:00","text":"像這樣的差距反映在原住民族的健康、工作、生活環境還有社會條件上的一個長期不利的處境，也因為這樣，許多社會福利制度已經把原住民族老人的標準定為55歲而不是一般所謂的65歲。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:13:59.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:14:51.404000+08:00","text":"本席認為退休給付的問題也涉及到原住民族投入公職跟返鄉回流的服務，目前本席其實針對這個問題是有跨部會的在做分析，整個原鄉整體的發展，55歲到60歲之間的原住民公務人員還有很豐富的行政經驗、公共事務的能力跟部落的連結，如果他們能夠在比較合理的年齡退休，有穩定的退休金來支持，在不太有經濟壓力的情況下回流投入部落原鄉的公共事務、文化的傳承跟地方創生，還有災防、社區照顧跟青年培力的部分，這是原鄉人才回流很重要的方式跟策略。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:14:51.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:15:21.863000+08:00","text":"所以本席要請教你們兩個問題，銓敘部是不是可以參考、比較原住民族平均餘命的社會福利制度的邏輯，研議將原住民族公務人員可支領月退薪資的條件拉到55歲，針對原住民族男性平均餘命也明顯低於全國11歲的情況可以做更細緻的政策評估，而不是只用一般公務人員退休制度的框架來做處理？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:15:22.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:15:39.151000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，是不是可以麻煩你們會同原民會、人事行政總處及相關機關評估原住民公務人員提前退休後投入原鄉公共服務、部落治理跟地方發展的制度如何銜接？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:15:40.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:15:42.052000+08:00","text":"是不是請你可以說明這個部分？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:15:42.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:15:53.838000+08:00","text":"我今天最主要的訴求就是對於原住民族公務人員退休金請領的年齡是否可以研議提前到55歲，並進行政策評估跟執行？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"彭司長國華","start":"2026-06-10T10:15:55.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:08.788000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員寶貴的意見，委員的這個意見大概比較涉及到政策決定或是做細部的評估，我會把委員的意見帶回去跟部長報告，再請相關主管司研究看看。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:09.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:37.560000+08:00","text":"本席也希望你們能夠在會後針對本席講的這個議題，不管是你們內部或者是跟外部的諮詢，可能也可以會同相關單位來處理本席所談的平均餘命這個問題，還有讓人才回流部落，在這個制度的規劃跟設計下，其實是可以達到對兩方面都有好處的狀態，好不好？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"彭司長國華","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:37.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:38.560000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:38.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:43.142000+08:00","text":"那就麻煩你們，可不可以有比較具體的回應報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:43.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:50.844000+08:00","text":"至少在一個月內以書面向本席說明你們討論的方向跟可能性，好不好？","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:51.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:51.765000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？好的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:51.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:51.785000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:52.285000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:53.713571+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（林委員倩綺代）","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:54.013571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:16:56.585000+08:00","text":"我們接下來請翁召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-06-10T10:16:56.885000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:17:00.313571+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，首先有請副人事長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:17:00.613571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T10:17:01.613571+08:00","text":"召委好。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}