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有請我們副任市長副任市長委員好 張偉副任市長早我想今天你獨挑大樑那我想有幾個問題來請教就是說整個今天我們看這整個軍公教的一個待遇的一個調整條例以現在來看的話就變成說"},{"start":35.458,"end":44.687,"text":"院版我看你們還沒有送審嘛還沒有送審那我想請教就是說你們這到底是有什麼自愛難省的地方嗎因為從2024年我看這個6月17號你們就喊請公交機關團體表達意見那到了10月29號"},{"start":54.036,"end":70.183,"text":"法規你們也審議完略那也報警行政院就是說這個整個公教人員待遇調整的條例的一個草案裡面現在在野黨的版本也排審了那行政院這個地方我看起來好像還沒有去做積極的一個回應"},{"start":71.603,"end":99.175,"text":"只有這個資訊台來請教你們說,你們的立場到底是怎樣?也就是說,行政院的一個立場,那你們版本呢,到現在沒有去做一個提出最主要的原因是怎麼樣?也沒有同意在野黨的版本,你們認為你們反對的理由到底會是什麼?不可以這樣一直演繹啊,因為畢竟在野黨的版本已經排審了,我想聽聽看你們具體的立場。"},{"start":100.78,"end":115.543,"text":"跟委員報告我剛其實有稍微報告就是在在我們整個研議的過程其實我們也是參考一些先進民主國家的相關的做法那現在這個大概各先進國家"},{"start":116.664,"end":143.938,"text":"都會給這個相關的利害關係人團體去表達意見的機會然後大部分的國家其實都是由專業的機關來組織這件事情然後有的是開審議會有的是透過一些意見的徵詢大家也可以提建議那最後的運作的機制因為它涉及國家的整體的資源的分配就是"},{"start":146.359,"end":150.923,"text":"我們要好好照顧公園然後也要對整個國家資源的分配做一個總體的兼顧"},{"start":155.185,"end":182.145,"text":"大概就是可以提意見可以提建議然後我們也會有相關的指標然後提到最後還是主政者必須要負起那個決定的責任現在大概多數的國家是往這個方向走那當然有一些國家是用比較細緻的或者是他鎖定一個像剛才大家一直在講日本他是明天新資去做一個比較大的標準那像台灣過去其實一直"},{"start":182.785,"end":202.858,"text":"是在考慮實質購買率但是我們會考慮其他的也會考慮民間薪資也會考慮其他的因素大概是會有這樣的差異也有委員一直在提說是不是公式化現在我們看到應該說除了美國有一個"},{"start":204.019,"end":220.529,"text":"有一個機制是你一定達到一定的指標一部分是政府可以直接按照指標去調但是還是有另外一軌是由委員會去提建議給總統然後讓總統再去做裁決所以現在看起來"},{"start":222.19,"end":247.768,"text":"比較少用公司化的這個部分啦就是一個固定的然後讓這個必須要負責的行政院完全沒有去考量這個整體國家的這個資源的分配的那你會碰到一個問題你會碰到在野黨的版本進來以後這告別很現實的啊在野黨人數就比你還多啊就比執政黨還要多啊"},{"start":249.49,"end":272.186,"text":"我相信我的意思就是說其實我要講的就是說你們那個對岸你們對岸白會去買嗎我們有跟這個行政院一直在報告說這個在立法院草野的委員都很關注這件事情然後我們也有密集在討論這是我們希望這個因為"},{"start":274.708,"end":298.918,"text":"剛剛其實之前已經有報告,現在不管是軍人的待遇條例,教師的待遇條例,或者是公園的奉集法,或是加急集辦法,這個所謂奉集數額的這個責任的部分,其實在現行的法制上是劃給行政院的,因為它跟整個預算的編列是關聯的。那當然這件事情就是行政院的責任,所以我們以總署的立場,我們會建議要院辦進來。"},{"start":299.978,"end":313.268,"text":"所以你這個結果我大略可以看到最後的結果會是些什麼啦但是我還是建議你們那些頒布那麼太過對岸這樣子我是覺得實在是兩黨的時間是比較慢的政治的一個環境那當然是現在來看的話就是草小野大嘛立法院裡面的多數裡面現在就是在野黨嘛"},{"start":327.577,"end":354.76,"text":"那沒有看到行政院的版本 你到最後通過的就會是在野黨的版本那你告訴我要怎麼因應 這大家都很清楚啦這個其實你們要好好去做一個思考啦那第二個就是說 這一次賴總統宣布的18項的一個家庭支持這些措施我看外界也都得到很大的鼓舞 表達歡迎但以目前來看的話 你這些補助 你就很分散"},{"start":355.501,"end":364.567,"text":"澳內政部 澳告部 澳衛福部 也有勞動部那現在對民眾來講的話他會幾個困境第一個就是說這個資訊"},{"start":366.894,"end":391.925,"text":"我不一定找得到 我符合資格我想要找這個資訊 真麻煩 這第一個那第二個就是說 我不曉得我自己是否符合資格這是前提的問題嘛 你不曉得你有沒有符合資格或在什麼地方 就必須要打電話到公務機關去問那基層的公務人員 對他們來講的話也是很大的一個負擔那我在這個地方有一個建議 是不是"},{"start":392.845,"end":422.165,"text":"你們這個地方我們人總這個地方也去跟速發部或者跨部會來做一個協調你們去建置一個家庭支持的一站式的一個平台比如說我用自然人憑證就可以去做一個登錄這資料怎麼樣去這個買data的部分就資料的一個串接然後自動資料的一個比對那主動列出申請的補助然後呢一件的一個申請跟這個整個導流的一個申辦"},{"start":423.506,"end":432.273,"text":"這個部分你們有想到這個嗎?給民眾比較好的一個裏面就變成說把它納入一個跨部會的一個數位整合的一個規劃有這樣計劃嗎?"},{"start":436.496,"end":461.061,"text":"跟委員包括委員這個建議非常好那這個因為有18項那的確是跨部會合作的那在行政院這一端是由國發會來做主導那我們回去我們會協調國會來請蘇發部這個採用委員的意見來做一個規劃是一站式的服務我想這個對不管是民眾或者是軍工交通人"},{"start":461.761,"end":488.607,"text":"都會是一個蠻好的幫助阿不 我覺得我做這個民眾 我覺得我在尋寶你知道嗎我知道政府有這個總統有宣布這麼多的政策行政院也通過說我就要這樣做就不去辯論到底是不是要法律授權的問題或者說這個整個幾副行政本來政府心力照顧老百姓都是應該的我站在民眾立場我就不跟你辯論那一些但是你至少讓我比較好處理嘛合理吧"},{"start":491.104,"end":493.666,"text":"不是嗎?你總要來看我的資...我...我...我這要問夠薄嗎?還是熱衷薄有嗎?還是勞動部有嗎?我資格有好嗎?要到哪一個地方去找?我是覺得齁這個...婦人資產這個地方應該把..."},{"start":508.178,"end":514.019,"text":"我們回去處理 我們來協調國安會來處理這個問題來看部會 我覺得這個很重要我另外最後一個問題 我還要再來追問上次我有提過 就是公務人員這個這個有薪假跟家庭照顧假的一個檢討就是說有薪假的天數 是不是足夠你說四假的保溫七天家庭照顧假七天 身薪假的請假三天"},{"start":536.443,"end":548.546,"text":"但是這個家庭照顧假跟身心調適假這個都是人事假做一個計算超過七天的部分才不給薪嘛這問題就是說你嫂子化了還要高齡化我看這次很多國家在離愁韓國他要改革你的嫂子女化的部分他就從公務人員機關裡面你只要選一個公家機關選一個三十多歲以下的你的工時減一天"},{"start":566.789,"end":585.316,"text":"那公務人員帶頭去做那財政支持的部分當然有些國家很激進啦但至少公務人員帶頭的部分就說 你要生孩子嗎 嫂子女的話我就是要多鼓勵政府來做一個支持就是在投資國家 在投資這個未來那大家用嘴巴講"},{"start":586.823,"end":601.702,"text":"民間企業碰到的是我的這個成本會增加那就從公務體系來公務體系你就寫一個 我減一點錢如果民間的到最後你也負責要去做一個統計上市櫃公司你要去統計你"},{"start":603.824,"end":617.232,"text":"小孩子你讓他減工時這個政府再來做適度的一個補貼少子女化的解決當然是很大的一個問題但公務機關我們有沒有可能去做一個研議參考沒問題我們是"},{"start":620.154,"end":628.856,"text":"韓國是全世界少子女化最嚴重的現在台灣撲一撲我們變成全世界最明顯少子女化我們就變成第一名公務機關的部分原來有這樣的一個演繹我不知道你的看法是什麼我認同那個委員的看法我們再來跟全區部來協調這個我覺得可以帶頭去做我覺得這個非常好"},{"start":645.725,"end":646.326,"text":"我們經常也在評論過勞對於這一次剛好大家"},{"start":655.543,"end":678.638,"text":"不得不對於整個少子女化政府要提出一個因應的一個對策就是說涉及到工時或者涉及到整個價的部分公務機關各個產業會去看看你公務機關的態度政府部門如果帶頭往前的話民間業者這個部分大家去做比較說我公務員也這樣"},{"start":681.259,"end":687.664,"text":"勞動的部分勞工的部分也許我們可以來比照制度廠長在台灣我在看都是這樣在做前進所以這個我是覺得你可以好好來做這個研究啦可以齁你有沒有感覺韓國瑜在做我們看我覺得這點好的"},{"start":698.908,"end":720.816,"text":"我們也可以 那個只是惡指 抑制啦抑制那個少子女化加速的這樣子下跌人口要平衡2.1 我們現在已經破億了你說要減下去不可能 但至少不要讓它至少那個少的速度喔不要讓它一直這樣急速 至少你要把它讓它止跌嘛"},{"start":721.716,"end":729.51,"text":"那不是這樣說,我覺得不是一個好方法啦是,委員很好意跟我跟情緒部來研究真的好好研究一下啦,好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:52:26.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:52:27.910000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請副人事長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T10:52:27.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:52:28.271000+08:00","text":"請副人事長。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:52:28.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:52:28.291000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:52:28.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:52:28.931000+08:00","text":"副人事長早。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:52:28.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:53:02.146000+08:00","text":"我想今天你獨挑大樑，我有幾個問題要來請教，今天我們看整個軍公教待遇調整條例，以現在來看就是院版部分你們還沒有送審，我想請教你們這到底有什麼窒礙難行的地方嗎？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:53:02.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:53:35.685000+08:00","text":"從2024年6月17號你們就函請公教機關團體表達意見，到了10月29號，法規你們也審議完竣，也報請行政院了，就是說，整個公教人員待遇調整條例草案裡面，現在在野黨的版本也排審，行政院在這個地方，我看起來好像還沒有積極回應，只好藉這個質詢臺來請教你們的立場到底是什麼？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:53:36.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:53:44.389000+08:00","text":"也就是行政院的立場，你們的版本到現在沒有提出最主要的原因是什麼？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:53:47.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:53:52.592000+08:00","text":"如果不同意在野黨的版本，你們認為你們反對的理由到底會是什麼？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:53:52.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:53:56.614000+08:00","text":"也不能只是一直研議啊，因為畢竟在野黨的版本已經排審了。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:53:56.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:53:58.175000+08:00","text":"來，我想聽聽看你的具體立場。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:53:59.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:55:06.254000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我剛剛也稍微報告了，在我們整個研議的過程，其實我們也是參考一些先進民主國家的相關做法，現在大概各先進國家都會給相關的利害關係人團體表達意見的機會，然後大部分的國家其實都是由專業的機關來主責這件事情，有的是開審議會，有的是透過一些意見的徵詢，大家也可以提建議，但是最後運作的機制，因為它涉及國家整體資源的分配，就是我們要好好照顧公務員，然後也要對整個國家資源的分配做一個總體的兼顧，所以大概就是可以提意見、可以提建議，然後我們也會有相關的指標，但最後還是主政者必須要負起那個決定的責任。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:55:06.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:55:34.493000+08:00","text":"現在大概多數的國家是往這個方向走，當然有一些國家是用比較細緻的，或者是它鎖定一個，像剛才大家一直在講日本，它是以民間薪資去做一個比較大的標準，像臺灣過去其實一直是在考慮實質購買力，但是我們也會考慮民間薪資，也會考慮其他的因素，大概會有這樣的差異啦。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:55:34.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:55:58.789000+08:00","text":"也有委員一直在提是不是要公式化，現在我們看到，應該說除了美國有一個機制是達到一定的指標，一部分是政府可以直接按照指標去調，但還是有另外一軌，是由委員會去提建議給總統，然後讓總統再去做裁決。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:55:58.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:56:15.800000+08:00","text":"所以現在看起來比較少用公式化的部分，就是一個固定的，然後讓必須要負責的行政院，完全沒有去考量整體國家資源分配的狀況。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:56:16.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:56:26.748000+08:00","text":"那你會碰到一個問題，你會碰到在野黨的版本進來以後，到最後很現實的，在野黨人數就是比執政黨還要多啊！","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:56:28.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:56:28.810000+08:00","text":"我相信……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:56:30.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:56:38.677000+08:00","text":"其實我要講的就是你們那個對案排得進來嗎？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:56:38.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:57:17.918000+08:00","text":"我們一直跟行政院報告立法院朝野的委員都很關注這件事情，然後我們也有密集在討論，其實之前也有報告，現在不管是軍人的待遇條例、教師的待遇條例，或者是公務員的俸給法或加給辦法，所謂俸給數額責任的部分，其實在現行的法制上是劃給行政院，因為它跟整個預算的編列是關聯的，當然這件事情就是行政院的責任，所以以我們總處的立場，我們會建議要有院版進來。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:57:18.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:57:28.205000+08:00","text":"所以你這個結果，我大略可以看到最後的結果會是些什麼，但我還是建議你們，你們的版本、對案，這樣子我是覺得是實在是……兩年的時間，實在有比較慢一點。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:57:28.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:57:54.604000+08:00","text":"政治的環境，當然現在來看就是朝小野大，立法院裡面的多數現在就是在野黨，沒有看到行政院的版本，到最後通過的就會是在野黨的版本，到時候你們要怎麼因應？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:57:54.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:57:57.807000+08:00","text":"這一點大家都很清楚啦，這個你們要好好去思考。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:57:58.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:58:18.604000+08:00","text":"第二個，這一次賴總統宣布的十八項家庭支持措施，我看也都有得到外界很大的鼓舞，甚至表達歡迎，但以目前來看的話，這些補助就很分散，有編列在內政部的，也有編列在教育部，甚至有衛福部，也有勞動部。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:58:19.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:58:31.837000+08:00","text":"這對民眾來講的話會面臨幾個困境：第一個，這個資訊不一定找得到，他符合資格，想要找相關資訊，但很麻煩！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:58:31.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:58:32.577000+08:00","text":"這是第一個。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:58:32.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:58:48.384000+08:00","text":"第二個，不曉得自己是不是符合資格，這是前提的問題，不曉得自己有沒有符合資格或在什麼地方，就必須要打電話到公務機關去詢問，這對基層的公務人員來講也是一個很大的負擔。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:58:48.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:59:02.292000+08:00","text":"所以我在這個地方有一個建議，是不是請人總去跟數發部或者跨部會協調，建置一個家庭支持的一站式平臺？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:59:02.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:59:24.387000+08:00","text":"比如說用自然人憑證就可以登錄，MyData的部分就是資料的串接，然後自動資料的比對，主動列出申請的補助，然後一鍵申請跟整個導流的申辦，這個部分你們有去想到嗎？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T10:59:24.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:59:31.273000+08:00","text":"讓民眾有比較好的便利性，就是把它納入跨部會數位整合規劃，有這樣的計畫嗎？","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:59:35.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T10:59:57.400000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，委員這個建議非常好，這個部分因為有十八項，尤其是跨部會合作的，在行政院這一端是由國發會主導，我們回去後會去協調國發會，並請數發部採用委員的意見來做規劃，也就是一站式的服務。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T10:59:57.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:02.321000+08:00","text":"我想這個不管是對民眾或者是軍公教同仁，都會是一個滿好的幫助。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:03.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:06.762000+08:00","text":"不然的話，如果我是民眾，我會覺得我在尋寶，你知道嗎？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:06.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:27.587000+08:00","text":"我知道總統有宣布這麼多的政策，行政院也通過說要照這樣來做，就不去辯論到底是不是要法律授權的問題，或者說整個給付行政，本來政府興利照顧老百姓都是應該的，我站在民眾的立場就不跟你辯論那一些，但是你至少讓我好找一點，合理吧？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:30.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:30.284000+08:00","text":"不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:30.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:31.284000+08:00","text":"是，委員的意見很好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:30.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:30.885000+08:00","text":"你總要跨部會，不然我要去問教育部嗎？","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:30.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:31.025000+08:00","text":"還是問內政部有沒有？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:31.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:31.185000+08:00","text":"還是問勞動部有沒有？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:31.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:32.006000+08:00","text":"我的資格有符合嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:32.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:32.446000+08:00","text":"要到哪一個地方去找？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:32.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:32.646000+08:00","text":"我是覺得副人事長，這個地方應該把……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:47.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:47.798000+08:00","text":"這個我們回去處理，我們協調國發會來處理這個問題。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:47.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:48.158000+08:00","text":"跨部會，我覺得這個很重要。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:48.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:00:51.959000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，我還要再來追問，上次我有提過，關於公務人員有薪假跟家庭照顧假的檢討，有薪假的天數是不是足夠？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:00:51.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:01:24.425000+08:00","text":"你說事假的部分7天，家庭照顧假7天，身心假3天，但是家庭照顧假跟身心調適假都是併入事假來計算，超過7天的部分才不給薪。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:01:24.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:01:51.051000+08:00","text":"現在的問題是，現在除了少子化，還有高齡化，我看這次很多國家，像韓國它要解決少子女化的部分，它就從公務人員機關裡面，公家機關的員工只要生一個，你的工時減一天，由它的公務人員帶頭去做，然後財政支持的部分，當然有些國家很激進啦！","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:01:51.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:02:03.576000+08:00","text":"但至少公務人員帶頭的部分，你願意生小孩，為因應少子女化，我就是要多鼓勵生育，政府來支持就是在投資國家、在投資未來。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:02:03.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:02:29.428000+08:00","text":"那大家用嘴巴講，民間企業碰到的是成本會增加，那就從公務體系來，你生一個我減少一小時工時，如果是民間的，到最後你也要負責去做一個統計，你要去統計上市櫃公司，針對有生小孩的員工，如果有給他減少工時，這個政府再來做適度的補貼。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:02:29.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:02:35.652000+08:00","text":"少子女化的解決當然是一個很大的問題，但是公務機關的部分我們有沒有可能去做一個研議、參考？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:02:39.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:02:44.855000+08:00","text":"不然本來韓國是全世界少子女化最嚴重的，現在臺灣一下變成是全世界最後一名，少子女化我們變成第一名，公務機關的部分人家有這樣的研議，我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T11:02:44.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:02:45.795000+08:00","text":"我認同委員的看法，我們再跟銓敘部來協調。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:02:45.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:03:46.144000+08:00","text":"我覺得可以帶頭去做，我覺得這個非常好，不然我們常被批評說過勞，這一次剛好大家不得不對於少子女化，政府要提出一個因應的對策，就是說涉及到工時或者涉及到整個假的部分，各個產業會去看公務機關的態度，政府部門如果帶頭往前的話，民間業者會去做比較，說公務人員也這樣，那麼勞動的部分、勞工的部分也許可以來比照，我看臺灣的制度常常都是這樣在做前進，所以我是覺得你可以好好來做一個研究。好。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:03:46.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:03:46.204000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:03:46.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:01.089000+08:00","text":"韓國在做給我們看，我覺得好的我們也可以……那個只是遏止、抑制啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:01.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:08.912000+08:00","text":"抑制少子女化加速的下跌，人口平衡要2.1，我們現在都已經破1了。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:08.912000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:09.912000+08:00","text":"多一點支持啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:09.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:19.796000+08:00","text":"你說要拉上去不可能，但是那個少的速度不要讓它一直這樣急速，至少你要讓它止跌嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:20.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:21.938000+08:00","text":"不是這麼說嗎？是。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:21.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:23.241000+08:00","text":"我覺得不失為一個好方法。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:23.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:27.448000+08:00","text":"是，委員很好的意見，我跟銓敘部來研究。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:27.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:28.510000+08:00","text":"真的要好好研究一下，好，謝謝。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:29.010000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:30.152857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:30.452857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:04:32.738571+08:00","text":"謝謝莊委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:04:33.038571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:02.752857+08:00","text":"我覺得莊委員剛剛提的那個意見點出了問題，就是我們現在的事假其實只有7天，但是它把家庭照顧假跟身心調適假全部都併入事假，以致於我們軍公教是看得到用不到，因為它就是整個併在事假裡面，所以這個部分有沒有可能請人事行政總處去檢討？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:03.052857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:08.767143+08:00","text":"不如把這個請假規則的7天直接上調到10天或是12天。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:09.067143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:11.352857+08:00","text":"我們再來跟銓敘部……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:11.652857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:18.510000+08:00","text":"這樣的話，我覺得更能夠讓大家實際上可以用到這兩個假。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:18.810000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:25.667143+08:00","text":"我們依照先前的宣告休息5分鐘，不好意思，賴委員，現在休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:25.967143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:27.110000+08:00","text":"休息（11時5分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:27.410000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:29.124286+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時11分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:29.424286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:31.138571+08:00","text":"我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:05:31.438571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:05:34.867143+08:00","text":"接下來有請賴士葆委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}