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我們接著請吳秉瑞委員質詢謝謝 麻煩請臺銀臺灣金控林董事長跟臺銀人壽保險公司張董事長好 臺壽張志宏董事長"},{"start":32.637,"end":55.248,"text":"董事長早今天就是說狀況因為我在這邊這麼久了我都大概清楚了問題是這個問題到底要怎麼解決可不可以跟我們說明一下台銀人壽長期虧損然後不停的增資然後資本市儲率不足所以這個保險"},{"start":57.294,"end":68.083,"text":"這個金管會要求大家要增資那你們政府也同意增資問題是一直增資一直增資不是解決問題的辦法所以就長遠來看要如何解決"},{"start":69.565,"end":73.248,"text":"我先簡單講一下這個過程其實這個我們台銀人壽的問題不是我們單一台銀人壽的問題而已其實是整個台灣的這個人壽業者的一個問題那我想其他比較大型的或早期成立的這些壽險公司它的問題其實比我們更嚴峻而且我們看它政治的狀況如果說從"},{"start":89.479,"end":106.305,"text":"這個儘管會要求每一家都要能夠提高資本市足率的這樣情況來看的話其實大概整個市場的增資的金額大概已經達到五千多億所以我們相對台銀人壽的增資的額度其實相對還是比較少的所以每一家都有這種增資的迫切的需求因為需要達到他的法定的一個水準董事長你這樣講齁"},{"start":108.781,"end":134.393,"text":"聽起來乍聽之下好像有道理可是我個人的感受是那些老牌的大保險公司現在每一年都有很高的獲利在盈餘你們台銀人壽每年在虧損怎麼可以說人家的問題比你還大人家自己公司賺的錢自己來增資沒有問題問題是你們沒有辦法賺錢所以但是一樣要增資所以就一直跟這個台銀"},{"start":135.433,"end":148.048,"text":"跟台灣銀行伸手嘛我是說這個問題我是指長遠如何讓台銀人壽能夠變成一個會賺錢的正常公司那如果這個真的做不到"},{"start":150.099,"end":177.065,"text":"長遠都做不到那是不是要考慮壯士斷軟這個是要講你這個未來台銀人壽你的長程的10年20年之後30年之後你到底這間公司要怎麼辦因為你們接了一個很爛的攤子我知道但是也不能說因為我接了一個很爛的攤子企業也可以考慮說這個部門如果真的做不起來這個部門要做怎麼樣的處理"},{"start":178.389,"end":204.798,"text":"併給人家 併給人家不一定會賠錢併給人家也可以照顧我們的現在的這些在這邊營業的這些經營的這些人併給人家讓人家有能力的來經營這個我是想請問你長期要如何解決台銀人壽的問題我想我們這兩年這兩年當中其實有非常的努力就是對於我們商品的優化的部分就推出在市場上有一些競爭力的產品"},{"start":206.138,"end":221.747,"text":"所以我們要能夠把商品賣得出去才有一些保費的收入那當然有了保費收入之後呢下一步我們要做的就是提高我們的這個整個財務投資的收益可以去cover以前的一個高額的一個利差損甚至也可以能夠去支應我們在線下的這個一個保單的一個支應的部分"},{"start":225.469,"end":238.761,"text":"所以這兩個我們都會同時來做努力那其實我們努力的成果可以看得到就是113年我們人壽是獲利的那去年因為碰到這個川普的一個關稅那匯率有很大的影響那又造成了這個我們"},{"start":240.475,"end":249.861,"text":"人壽需要做非常多的一些避險所以非常多的獲利的部分也會被避險的成本來侵蝕但是到今年為止其實我們也有很大的改善我想應該就是從這幾個方向來看第一個就是商品的優化第二個就是我們財務投資的一個績效的提升另外我們也會做系統的改進讓我們內部的整個效率能夠提升"},{"start":263.109,"end":272.358,"text":"那另外當然風險控管也是要注意的所以這個大概是我們可以努力的幾個方向那細節的部分我可不可以請我們這個人壽董事長來做說明好 謝謝"},{"start":275.835,"end":292.425,"text":"請教如果把他當作是你今天台銀人壽背後真正的股東就是國家嘛那如果啦我們是換位思考如果這是你家的公司你持股百分之百你會讓他這樣嗎這間公司長領這個樣子我覺得"},{"start":297.889,"end":314.717,"text":"剛剛聽起來是好像有點希望但是我覺得如果你了解國際經濟國際的財政希望很小為什麼美國國債現在假設我是一個投資人剛剛總裁有講錢會往收益高的地方跑美國的國債我現在長年期的我的利率都4.5% 5%的"},{"start":316.874,"end":333.959,"text":"那你台灣的資金的成本才一點多趴你都做到不賺錢了那如果開放大家錢你又去買美國公債我來買你這個保險幹嘛呢我是說如果要穩定的話啦那所以我是想說這個事情到底長線來講"},{"start":336.219,"end":359.146,"text":"現在每一個會期談的都是半年都是半年談預算就是一年來談一次問題是我在財政委員會十幾年了啊十幾年來都是這樣啊 又沒有進步你說每一次都跟我講每一任董事長都跟我講說有了有轉機了快好了快好了結果每一年還是這樣所以我們在信心實在是有點欠缺啦張董事長"},{"start":361.932,"end":370.346,"text":"換位思考一下假設這是你的工這一間公司是你的你要怎麼處理啊這個問題我剛接手所以我就針對這個公司的體質做一些盤點"},{"start":371.803,"end":391.401,"text":"那這家公司我們這樣看好了我們有資產面跟負債面那負債面我的成本大概是3.1%左右換句話說我公司要賺錢的話就是我資產面的投報率要超過3.1%那這個投報率的話不會澎白無故就來所以我一定要大量的新錢來投資因為"},{"start":394.383,"end":417.44,"text":"因為我來接手的時候面臨我們這保費收入大幅的衰退這保費懸崖這樣的東西所以這個東西的話我如果讓我的那個業務增加有新鮮進來那這個情況在林董事長來的時候我們的確做到了我們那個保費收入去年我們星期月保費收入是112億這6年來首次突破100億那今年我到目前為止"},{"start":418.661,"end":445.132,"text":"我到目前6月初我已經55億了所以如果有新錢的話再加上我本身最投資面的我貫徹一個投資紀律的話我這個東西的投報率可以穩定的上升那這個利差損的包袱一定要透過時間來解決這個經過我們10年的這個我們這體質的調整慢慢慢慢會呈現一個正向的循環包含今年金管會也開放那個"},{"start":446.632,"end":459.097,"text":"AC債券的匯率可以用平均債券期間來攤提這個我每年就會節省二十幾億的避險成本所以天時第一人為的話我覺得我這次蠻有把握我們是會把這體質好轉"},{"start":460.56,"end":480.972,"text":"那你體質好轉所以我們明年就可以看到好成績囉今年就 應該就可以對 我們明年會看到你們今年的成績啊所以我們明年在這個地方的時候就可以看得到的意思是好 那就加油喔對你們是抱著很高的期許才是在勉勵裡不然的話這樣長線一直下去實在不是辦法啦對 我自己看不下去啦好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:40:16.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:40:17.732000+08:00","text":"謝謝，麻煩請臺銀、臺灣金控凌董事長跟臺銀人壽保險公司張董事長。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:40:17.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:40:18.253000+08:00","text":"請臺灣金控凌董事長、臺壽張志宏董事長。","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:40:18.253000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:40:46.637000+08:00","text":"吳委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:40:46.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:40:47.017000+08:00","text":"董事長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:40:52.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:40:59.443000+08:00","text":"因為我在這邊這麼久了，我都大概清楚狀況了，問題是這個問題到底要怎麼解決？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:40:59.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:41:22.083000+08:00","text":"可不可以跟我們說明一下，臺銀人壽長期虧損然後不停的增資、資本適足率不足，所以金管會要求它要增資，政府也同意增資，問題是一直增資、一直增資不是解決問題的辦法，所以就長遠來看要如何解決？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:41:23.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:41:24.906000+08:00","text":"我先簡單講一下這個過程，其實我們臺銀人壽的問題不是我們單一臺銀人壽的問題而已，其實是整個臺灣的人壽業者的一個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:41:24.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:41:55.443000+08:00","text":"我想其他比較大型的或早期成立的這些壽險公司，他們的問題其實比我們更嚴峻，而且我們看他們增資的狀況，如果從金管會要求每一家都要能夠提高資本適足率的情況來看的話，整個市場的增資金額大概已經達到五千多億，所以臺銀人壽的增資額度其實相對還是比較少的。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:41:55.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:41:59.984000+08:00","text":"其實每一家都有這種增資的迫切需求，因為需要達到它的法定水準。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:00.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:42:12.906000+08:00","text":"董事長這樣講乍聽之下好像有道理，可是我個人的感受是那些老牌的大保險公司，現在每一年都有很高的獲利盈餘。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:12.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:42:17.188000+08:00","text":"你們臺銀人壽每年虧損，怎麼可以說人家的問題比你還大？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:17.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:42:22.090000+08:00","text":"人家自己公司賺的錢自己增資沒有問題啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:22.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:42:30.314000+08:00","text":"問題是你們沒有辦法賺錢，但是一樣要增資所以就一直跟臺灣銀行伸手。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:31.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:42:48.380000+08:00","text":"我知道這個問題，我是指長遠如何讓臺銀人壽能夠變成一個會賺錢的正常公司，如果這個真的做不到，長遠都做不到，那是不是要考慮壯士斷腕？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:48.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:42:57.902000+08:00","text":"這個是要講未來臺銀人壽長程的10年、20年之後、30年之後，到底這間公司要怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:57.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:42:59.462000+08:00","text":"因為你們接了一個很爛的攤子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:42:59.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:43:22.332000+08:00","text":"我知道，但是也不能因為接了一個很爛的攤子……企業也可以考慮，如果這個部門真的做不起來就要做怎麼樣的處理，也許可以併給人家，併給人家不一定會賠錢，併給人家也可以照顧現在在這邊經營的這些人啊！","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:43:23.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:43:26.374000+08:00","text":"併給人家，讓有能力的人來經營！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:43:26.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:43:29.995000+08:00","text":"我是想請問你長期要如何解決臺銀人壽的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:43:29.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:43:43.620000+08:00","text":"我想我們這兩年當中非常努力的在做我們商品優化的部分，推出市場上有一些競爭力的產品，我們要能夠把商品賣出去才能有一些保費收入。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:43:44.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:44:01.411000+08:00","text":"在有了保費收入之後，下一步我們要做的就是提高我們整個財務投資的收益，可以去cover以前高額的利差損，甚至也能夠支應我們現下保單需要支應的部分，所以這兩個我們都會同時來做努力。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:44:01.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:44:22.220000+08:00","text":"其實我們努力的成果是可以看得到的，那就是113年我們的人壽是獲利的，去年因為碰到川普關稅的因素，匯率有很大的影響，又造成我們人壽需要做非常多避險，所以非常多獲利部分也會被避險的成本侵蝕，但是到今年為止，我們也有很大的改善了。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:44:22.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:44:39.511000+08:00","text":"我想就是從這幾個方向來看，第一個就是商品的優化；第二個就是我們財務投資的績效提升；另外，我們也會做系統的改進，讓我們內部的整個效率能夠提升；當然，風險控管也是要注意的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:44:39.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:44:46.358000+08:00","text":"以上大概是我們可以努力的幾個方向，至於細節部分，我可不可以請臺銀人壽的董事長來說明？好。謝謝。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:44:49.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:45:06.044000+08:00","text":"我是要請教，今天臺銀人壽背後真正的股東就是國家嘛，如果我們換位思考，如果這是你家的公司，你持股百分之百，你會讓它這樣嗎？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:45:06.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:45:19.313000+08:00","text":"這間公司長年這個樣子，我覺得剛剛聽起來好像是有點希望，但是我覺得如果你了解國際經濟、國際財政，希望很小啦，為什麼？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:45:21.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:45:42.157000+08:00","text":"假設我是一個投資人，剛剛總裁有講嘛，錢會往收益高的地方跑，美國國債現在長年期的利率都4.5%、5%了，臺灣的資金成本才百分之一點多，你就做到都不賺錢了，如果開放的話，我的錢寧願去買美國公債，我來買你這個保險幹嘛呢！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:45:42.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:45:44.438000+08:00","text":"我是說如果要穩定的話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:45:45.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:46:12.746000+08:00","text":"所以這個事情以長線來講，當然現在每一個會期談的都是半年，都是半年談，預算就是一年來談一次，問題是我在財政委員會十幾年了，十幾年來都是這樣，又沒有進步，你們每一任董事長都跟我講有轉機了、快好了，結果每一年還是這樣，所以我們的信心實在是有點欠缺。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:46:13.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:46:19.498000+08:00","text":"張董事長，你換位思考一下，假設這間公司是你的，你要怎麼處理？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"張董事長志宏","start":"2026-06-10T11:46:20.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:46:45.381000+08:00","text":"有關這個問題，我剛接手的時候就有針對這個公司的體質做了一些盤點，我們這樣看好了，我們有資產面跟負債面，負債面，我的成本大概是3.1%左右，換句話說，我公司要賺錢的話，就是資產面的投報率要超過3.1%，這個投報率不會平白無故就來，所以我一定要有大量的新錢來投資。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"張董事長志宏","start":"2026-06-10T11:46:49.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:46:59.511000+08:00","text":"我來接手的時候，面臨我們的保費收入大幅衰退，就保費懸崖，在這種情況下，我如何讓業務增加有新錢進來？","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"張董事長志宏","start":"2026-06-10T11:47:00.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:47:14.962000+08:00","text":"這個情況在凌董事長來了之後我們的確做到了，以我們的保費收入來說，去年新契約保費收入是112億，這六年來首次突破100億，今年到目前6月初，已經有55億了。","quality":0.79},{"speaker":"張董事長志宏","start":"2026-06-10T11:47:15.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:47:25.926000+08:00","text":"如果有新錢，加上我本身對投資面有貫徹投資紀律的話，這個東西的投報率可以穩定的上升。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張董事長志宏","start":"2026-06-10T11:47:26.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:47:53.097000+08:00","text":"利差損的包袱一定要透過時間來解決，經過我們10年的體質調整，慢慢慢慢會呈現一個正向的循環，包含今年金管會也開放AC債券的匯率可以用平均債券期間來攤提，這個我們每年就節省了二十幾億的避險成本，所以天時地利人和的話，我覺得這次滿有把握能讓體質好轉。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:47:54.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:47:57.842000+08:00","text":"你說體質好轉，所以我明年就可以看到好成績囉？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"張董事長志宏","start":"2026-06-10T11:47:57.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:47:58.923000+08:00","text":"今年應該就可以了。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:47:59.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:04.846000+08:00","text":"對啊，我明年會看到你們今年的成績啊，所以我們明年在這個地方就可以看得到的意思？是。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:04.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:05.547000+08:00","text":"好，那就加油！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:06.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:12.851000+08:00","text":"對你們是抱著很高的期許才一直勉勵你，不然這樣長線一直下去實在不是辦法啦！加油！","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"張董事長志宏","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:13.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:14.432000+08:00","text":"對，我自己也看不下去了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:14.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:14.972000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"凌董事長忠嫄","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:15.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:16.614857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:16.914857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:18.914857+08:00","text":"謝謝吳秉叡召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:19.214857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:22.357714+08:00","text":"林思銘委員改提書面質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T11:48:22.657714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T11:48:25.514857+08:00","text":"接著請羅明才委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}