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部長我們今天在桌上有看到一份應該是運動部有針對昭緯的版本還有葛如軍的委員的版本你們有做出關於竹條的建議對不對那我想問部長你們在做這兩位委員因為目前為止整個立法院只有這兩位委員提案那你們在研究他們這個竹條竹條的時候"},{"start":44.871,"end":69.144,"text":"你們心裡面想的是如果它真的成為所謂電競基本法我們可能真的未來在執行上會遇到哪些困難可不可以先廣泛的跟我們說明一下公委員您報告那首先電競基本法對我們來講其實基本法位階非常高那當然電子競技運動這個是我們運動部所掌管的其中一個項目我想"},{"start":69.924,"end":97.492,"text":"電子競技運動是我們運動部過去在體育署的時候確實在推動上面有需要精進的部分那我身為現在身為運動部部長我想這是我們需要再更加強化的部分那我們也在明年的預算編列已經有編列3000萬的部分那我們也希望說藉由現行的法制架構上面我們提升更多的這個行政命令來去確定我們對於電子競技運動的推展這件事情的目的"},{"start":98.626,"end":125.187,"text":"好 部長你講到兩個關鍵我們就再往下細問好了第一個因為我相信你們已經在編明年的預算雖然立法院現在都還沒有審尤其是部長您手上的預算運動部的也都還沒有審查去年的預算但沒關係你們已經很負責任的在編明年的預算您剛剛說已經編了3000萬有沒有機會讓我們先知道一下目前這3000萬大概會用在哪些大項不用給我們細節我想知道你們目前編列了哪些大項"},{"start":126.188,"end":145.607,"text":"跟委員您報告,就我現在所了解的部分的話,當然除了我們剛剛提到的這個六都的這個爭霸賽以外,除了補助以外,我們還希望說在這個剛剛有提提供到的,比如說像未來可能在擬定這個這個國光獎章或者是這個轉任專任運動教練,我想這些都是需要預算來去支應的,那我想"},{"start":146.207,"end":175.407,"text":"这部分我们当然希望说在电子竞技运动这一块我们可以做的除了在学校以外的部分我们来去做更多常态性的编列我想包含今年的民国亚运的这个电子竞技运动的培训这也是我们预算需要去编列的部分好所以刚部长讲了有六都的赛事然后面对国际赛事的选手培训甚至还有国防奖章专任教练转任的部分这个是运动部有编对吗好那我想问一下教育部有来吗"},{"start":176.681,"end":204.314,"text":"好我們請教育部長官謝謝有請市長那投影片先進下一張好那我請教育部說明一下目前來年的預算你們編列到跟電競有關的可不可以給我們一些大象的說明或是廣泛的說明就可以了跟電競有關的因為我們今天談電競積分法嗎根本報告因為我們在支援的是各個學問領域並沒有特別目前呢"},{"start":205.549,"end":220.536,"text":"政策可沒有特別針對電競去編列那如果回應到剛剛吳佩儀委員所提到的因為還有各式各樣的電競專班或者是協會裡面有說他們去協助學校開的這個學分或者是專班目前你們教育部會有預算在這些專班裡頭嗎或者是這些個別協會去開的班級裡頭"},{"start":224.378,"end":241.953,"text":"我舉例跟文說明就是說像我們對一個大學可能我們有高教生跟的經費那裡面會去鼓勵學校去發展他的特色如果有某個大學把電競當成是他們一個特色的話那就可以運用這筆錢去發展但是教育部這邊目前是沒有特別針對電競去編特定的計畫跟效果"},{"start":245.216,"end":260.213,"text":"沒問題為什麼我要問這些事情因為我要講的是因為今天現在兩個委員的版本都叫做基本法那我覺得在法理上在體力上我們真的有必要有非常大的必要要跟國有"},{"start":260.733,"end":286.088,"text":"報告什麼叫做基本法那我相信部長跟次長你一定都非常清楚但是我還是要說所謂的基本法是因為我們在意的一些基本權利而且它所涉及的是廣泛的全國性的人民不論他在幾歲的時候而且他所影響的族群是非常龐大的例如說教育基本法文化基本法社會福利基本法"},{"start":286.528,"end":309.401,"text":"青年基本法客家基本法科学技术基本法也就是说不论你在哪一个年龄阶段你在哪一个产业领域当中甚至他关系高跟国土有关的海洋基本法甚至是无力化委员有非台湾我们在谈多元族群的时候都会关心到的原住民族基本法甚至"},{"start":310.482,"end":339.175,"text":"還有所謂新著名基本法這些我認為基本法它所顧及到的是基本原則基本準繩跟基本方針而且如果要去落實基本法我們要做的相關法律的配套跟設計應該超級無敵多我想請問教育部我們就以教育基本法來說是我們光是為了教育基本法所設置相關的配套 辦法 執法 條例或行政命令你現在背得出來有多少嗎"},{"start":340.623,"end":361.571,"text":"很多我可不可以說他超過100個都有可能因為我講的是行政命令啦條例啦辦法啦這些都喊都有可能對不對好那假設我只是假設假設今天朝委硬要決定主條然後我們可能後續主條然後再保留啊再審查啦再討論但是假設朝委真的想要讓他三讀過關"},{"start":363.032,"end":381.753,"text":"在這麼多法理的問題都還沒有解決之前在所有的委員或是所有的公聽會的學者專家今天提出來的問題都沒有辦法解決但是基本法就是要被過關未來你們可能要花多少的時間去處理所謂的配套辦法執法命令或者是等等的我想先請教育部回答再請運動部回答"},{"start":383.589,"end":410.194,"text":"報告委員這一塊可能我們會進一步看條文內容再思考教育部要做什麼樣子的配套那你們目前有看到這兩個委員的版本了嗎是那你初步的想像如果我們從人才培育產學合作是這兩個角度思考可能我們要修正的相關的行政規則跟行政指導就會涉及到很多了很多我可不可以說半年一年可能都做不完"},{"start":410.894,"end":429.24,"text":"为什么会举这么长的时间以我自己之前在修学辅法在我们教文的时候当时的学辅法经过非常多漫长的讨论可能最后的癥结点可能就只剩一两个都讨论了很多次然后到目前为止学辅法其实已经通过三度通过快要一年了吧一年多"},{"start":430.322,"end":458.781,"text":"我們還有很多事情沒有完成對不對還有幾個執法沒有錯還需要共識沒有錯好而且它涉及到不是只有教育部認不認真的問題它牽扯到教育部跟其他部會跨部會的合作第二個牽扯到中央政府跟地方政府的合作是所以為什麼光是一個學輔法它只是修了其中幾條但是我們在相關的配套執法條例行政命令裡面要花這麼長的時間"},{"start":460.462,"end":478.931,"text":"好接下來請運動部部長因為你們盤點完之後你的幕僚有沒有告訴你未來假設真的被三讀通過之後你們運動部因為他現在主責機關是壓在運動部你們大概花多久的時間去想像各式各樣的配套執法辦法條例行政命令等等的"},{"start":480.303,"end":503.044,"text":"跟委員您報告我想這個就如同您剛剛所提到確實是非常龐大的那如果基本法一定立下去那當然我們有非常多的行政命令還有相關的法案需要去來去推動時間確實你不敢想像對不對確實好我也不敢想像但我們可以務實的來看我們目前可以做什麼事情來下一張"},{"start":504.508,"end":517.473,"text":"在幾次的關於電子競技專基本法的討論當中我覺得有一件事情剛剛吳佩儀委員也有講到當兩次的亞運賽事的時候重複的遊戲項目只有四個"},{"start":520.094,"end":548.353,"text":"意思就是說當這些比賽的標的是建立在這些個別廠商的遊戲上的時候選手當然可以拼命可以努力可是他跟一般的運動就截然的不同所以我要舉一個曾經發生過的真實事件為例任天堂曾經無預警的關停任天堂明星大亂鬥的全球最大社群賽事同時他簡單的只說了一句話說那些時代結束了"},{"start":549.073,"end":571.118,"text":"那我不確定現場長官媽媽你媽媽玩這個電動我只能跟你說有人回答我沒有我只能跟你說它真的很受歡迎我身邊的小孩也都有在玩它是一個很可愛的遊戲可是當時任天堂明星大亂鬥世界巡迴錦標賽它是由玩家社群所營運是世界上規模最大的任天堂明星大亂鬥社群電競賽事"},{"start":572.978,"end":587.53,"text":"我想先說就算是社群辦的不是所謂的亞運也不是所謂的奧運他也還不是六都辦是社群辦的但我必須要說他一定有經過合法的授權對嗎好那但是任天堂當時說停就停"},{"start":588.391,"end":613.06,"text":"所以2022年跟2023年SWT的賽事都被取消在聲明當中就只有說這個時代已經結束我們不知道任天堂為什麼做出這樣的決定但是說停就停所有的當年想要參加這個社群賽事的玩家或者是選手們就沒有了所以我要說我上一次在拜託召委安排公聽會跟任委要"},{"start":613.72,"end":642.748,"text":"更做更多嚴謹的法律研究的時候我講的第一件事情就是所有這些因為遊戲IP延伸出來的活動也好賽事也好他都必須要事先經過遊戲開發商的同意跟授權所以如果今天這個東西是掐在這些廠商手上我不確定我們未來的不確定性這麼高的情況下我們如何合理合法合規的同時是讓這些選手真的覺得他被照顧到去協助這些選手這是我覺得目前"},{"start":643.308,"end":665.186,"text":"最大的問題來第二個那其他國家怎麼做我們來看一下目前呢馬來西亞他們只有做政策的部分也就是說他們為了保障選手的權益還有選手的這些義務然後也為了避免發生一些弊端可能有作弊的問題可能有禁藥的問題所以他們成立了電子競技誠信委員會還有"},{"start":666.627,"end":689.824,"text":"就像剛剛部長兩位部長都說的我們可能未來有六度的賽事所以為了整合各地賽事的規範他們建立一個統一的積分標準所以孩子們可能所謂巡迴賽但是它依然只是政策它嫁接在現在各個部會原有的法律上去做一些加強跟調整跟協助讓賽事可以更順暢預算可以更多政策可以更合理"},{"start":690.484,"end":715.311,"text":"那巴西怎麼做?巴西他們只立了一個叫做電子遊戲法律框架框架甚至他把遊戲視為科技產品跟文化影音產品他把遊戲產業跟電競運動分開意思就是說對於巴西也好對於馬來西亞也好可能在很多委員的心中在很多專家學者心中這兩個國家電競可能做比台灣好資源比台灣多預算比台灣多但"},{"start":715.791,"end":731.442,"text":"即使這兩個看起來做比台灣好資源比台灣多的國家他們都沒有為了這個立一個專法所以我要說我們今天在考慮要立這個專法的時候我們所擔心的事情其實有一部分是來自這個我不知道李洋部長你怎麼看"},{"start":732.418,"end":749.712,"text":"我想跟委員您報告那首先我們還是要強調說我們對於電子競技這個運動的推動是本部跟委員們都非常高度重視今天上午的公聽會我想這也是高度的共識那我想過去確實我們在推動上面確實比較慢那我想"},{"start":750.833,"end":774.173,"text":"運動部接下來會針對電子競技運動的部分來去積極的推動我想這部分我們肯定有更加多的方法來去推動電子競技運動那當然很感謝委員每一位委員對於我們電子競技的重視好文化部有沒有來啊文化部有來嗎好我們請文化部的長官就這一頁我想請教文化部的意見喔"},{"start":778.171,"end":800.451,"text":"以巴西的角度來看好 謝謝以巴西的角度來看他把遊戲視為科技產品跟文化影音產品分開那一旦關係到IP授權可能又會圍到文化部本身或者是制裁局本身請問文化部的長官你們怎麼看他立為一個基本法之後文化部未來在面對這樣的事情可能有哪些因應之道包含我剛剛講的突然任天堂明星大亂鬥"},{"start":801.972,"end":826.858,"text":"官方公司說不辦就不辦說取消就取消說不授權就不授權你們自己怎麼看這部分的爭議其實要回到著作權法的基本爭議那他是不是能夠在電子基本法裡面去規範我們不確定但是因為授權的問題是所有文化內容上游最上游的一個基本問題那如果那一塊授權問題沒有被穩定的賦予權利而且有法律的條文的拘束的話他可能會有"},{"start":827.378,"end":851.119,"text":"的確會在是應用上會有問題不過那應該不是只有電競或電子遊戲它基本上是應該是所有文化內容的IP的授權源頭以上如同次長您剛剛說的我研究了羅委員跟葛委員的版本裡面確實沒有辦法規範這件事情所以真的就很有可能發生我剛剛說的當官方授權說收就收說不做就不做這件事情其實它是嚴重影響到選手的權益對嗎"},{"start":853.141,"end":870.39,"text":"是好但是很可惜確實也沒有辦法規範到謝謝文化部好那我們接下來往下看下一張不好意思時間已經到了不好意思主席我還沒有問完拜託再給我一點時間因為我們既然要修法我們就好好討論可以嗎謝謝主席好下一張"},{"start":871.994,"end":895.391,"text":"我要說現在的運動部也好、速發部、勞動部、文化部、衛福部各地方政府跟各個部會還有經濟部我們分頭在電子競技做了哪些事情而當我們把這些一條一條東西拿來對照朱熹寧的版本的時候幾乎在現在的法規裡面都有了來第一個從事電子競技遊戲專用的電腦及其周邊設備來自經濟部"},{"start":899.534,"end":922.092,"text":"国内本土游戏产业开发来自书发部然后未来一旦有授权那个IP的问题可以透过文化部来协助跟制裁局还有选手就业辅导还有合可雇佣外籍选手来台工作现在劳动部有法规在学的电竞选手的学业辅导我们有教育部文创智慧财产的开发电子竞技专长类别替代一评选我们有文化部"},{"start":923.14,"end":947.061,"text":"今天早上我在後面簽到的時候也遇到國內的遊戲開發廠商他們說他們是在做國內第一款競技遊戲的廠商我們也希望未來可以扶植像這樣的本土遊戲廠商做出一個可以揚名國際的競技遊戲未來有勞我劃步再來一旦涉及到未成年人的身心健康甚至未來可能有上癮的問題的時候我們已經有衛福部相關的法令"},{"start":947.862,"end":970.191,"text":"或者是電子競技實體場館的土地分區使用建築管理還有消防公安等場域規範必須有各個部會還有地方政府共同規範也就是說現在其實在很多目前我們手上看到的羅偉源的版本也好格偉源的版本也好你們的基本法裡面甚至很多其實沒有寫到這些而未來如果基本法真的三讀通過之後跟現在這些要怎麼競合"},{"start":971.551,"end":989.168,"text":"我還是沒有看到相關的說法我不認為這只是部會的責任我認為一個負責任的立法委員當你要提出一個你認為是舉世創新獨一無二的基本法的時候你讀後某一個單獨運動項目的時候你就必須要做這樣的法規盤點但很可惜我現在沒有看到"},{"start":990.009,"end":1014.175,"text":"那我們來看一下台灣現在的現況剛剛很多人都會講到很多事情包含我相信主席一定非常在意選手的權益因為在您的版本裡面你提到了非常多權益的保障勞動權益的保障條約的處理其實我認為未來定型化契約絕對可以處理這個事情還有相關的兵役問題其實我們都有一些事情可以往下做因為時間有限我就不再贅述下一張"},{"start":1015.697,"end":1031.491,"text":"我們可能也擔心一些成癮的問題確實網路遊戲成癮目前在世界衛生組織的國際疾病分類已經正式列為精神疾病遊戲障礙症定義為一種遊戲行為模式而這個事情我不是說電子競技運動選手必然會有網路遊戲成癮的問題"},{"start":1033.533,"end":1058.738,"text":"但是我們在做所有的基本法法規的時候我們難道不用去擔心目前可能就已經產生的問題嗎所以為了這個事情韓國成立了公費治療中心為所謂的遊戲成癮者而馬來西亞透過推動教育預防跟治療進行這些事情都正在發生中這些都是一個負責任的立法者以及他們的辦公室必須要積極研究跟處理的"},{"start":1061.078,"end":1084.028,"text":"接下來我要說法治規定不宜操之過急我也想跟主席分享AI基本法2023、2024、2025青年基本法也是但是在那之前其實很多人就已經提了青年基本法無資料委員一上任進入立法院他是全立法院第一個提出青年基本法而無資料委員並不是在2023年提出所以我要說"},{"start":1085.248,"end":1113.08,"text":"有勇氣成為第一個提出基本法的委員固然令人佩服但是並不認為他可以草率的讓他過關甚至當時無銷委員提出來的時候可能民進黨黨團在立法院裡面是多數可是並沒有以多數碾壓的方法想要讓這個基本法就草率過關所以我要再次公開呼籲跟拜託我相信今天所有願意出席質詢跟早上公聽會的委員跟學者專家絕對都尊重並且也認同照顧電競選手"},{"start":1114.301,"end":1138.279,"text":"扶植電競產業讓台灣的台灣遊戲廠商也好硬體設備廠商也好都可以因為相關的政策相關的預算覺得自己是被國家看見的被國家照顧的但是在那之前每一個委員所提出的質疑跟擔心都拜託部會要一起合作努力但同時委員們也必須給予相關政策制定的時間跟討論所以我要再次強調"},{"start":1139.64,"end":1149.071,"text":"法規制定當然重要相關的產業照顧當然重要相關權益者的權利照顧當然重要但如果只是為了過而過"},{"start":1150.506,"end":1172.098,"text":"那絕對不是人民的福利也不是一個合格夠好的優秀的立法委員該做的事情我要拜託主席三思當然後續我不確定我們在這個會期會發生什麼事情但是我要拜託各個部會未來在相關選手的權益保障產業的扶植設備廠商的照顧"},{"start":1172.978,"end":1172.998,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:10.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:14:11.145000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:11.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:14:12.146000+08:00","text":"有請運動部部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:12.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:14:12.366000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:21.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:14:21.668000+08:00","text":"委員，您好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:22.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:14:34.161000+08:00","text":"部長，我們今天在桌上看到一份運動部針對召委的版本還有葛如鈞委員的版本逐條提出的建議，對不對？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:36.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:14:53.215000+08:00","text":"到目前為止，整個立法院只有這兩位委員提案，那我想問部長，你們在逐條研究這兩位委員提案條文的時候，心裡面是否想過如果它真的成為所謂的電競基本法，我們未來在執行上可能會遇到哪些困難？","quality":0.747},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:53.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:14:55.697000+08:00","text":"可不可以先廣泛的跟我們說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-10T16:14:56.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:15:37.472000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，首先是對我們來講，其實基本法的位階非常高，當然電子競技運動是我們運動部掌管的其中一個項目，我想過去在體育署的時代，電子競技運動確實在推動上面有需要精進的部分，那我現在身為運動部部長，我想這是我們需要再更加強化的部分，且明年的預算已經編列了3,000萬元，那我們也希望在現行的法制架構上面提升更多的行政命令，來確定我們推展電子競技運動這件事情的目的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:15:39.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:15:41.608000+08:00","text":"部長講到兩個關鍵，我們就再往下細問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:15:42.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:16:01.945000+08:00","text":"第一個，我相信你們已經在編明年的預算，雖然立法院現在都還沒有審，尤其是部長您手上運動部去年的預算也都還沒有審查，但沒關係，你們已經很負責任地在編明年的預算，您剛剛說已經編了3,000萬元，有沒有機會讓我們先知道目前這3,000萬元大概會用在哪些大項？","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:16:01.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:16:05.187000+08:00","text":"不用給我們細節，我想知道的是你們目前編列的有哪些大項。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-10T16:16:06.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:16:25.046000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，就我現在所瞭解的，除了補助我們剛剛提到的六都爭霸賽以外，我們剛剛還有提到未來可能擬定國光獎章或者是轉任專任運動教練的部分，我想這些都是需要預算去支應的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-10T16:16:25.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:16:43.158000+08:00","text":"在電子競技運動這一塊，我想我們可以做的除了在學校以外，還可以做更多常態性的編列，包含今年在名古屋亞運的電子競技運動選手培訓，這也是我們預算需要去編列的部分。","quality":0.534},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:16:43.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:16:52.204000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長講到六都的賽事，面對國際賽事的選手培訓，甚至還有國光獎章、專任教練轉任的部分，這個是運動部有編預算，對嗎？","quality":0.451},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:16:53.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:16:57.661000+08:00","text":"那我想請教一下教育部長官。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:16:59.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:17:01.283000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-10T16:17:04.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:17:04.325000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:17:05.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:17:13.029000+08:00","text":"請教育部說明一下，目前在來年的預算中，你們編列的跟電競有關的部分，可不可以給我們一些大項的說明或是廣泛的說明？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-10T16:17:15.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:17:27.750000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為我們支援的是各個學門領域，目前的政策可能沒有特別針對電競去編列。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:17:28.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:17:40.536000+08:00","text":"如果回應到剛剛吳沛憶委員提到的，因為有各式各樣的電競專班，或者是協會有協助學校開這個學分或者是專班，目前你們教育部會有預算用在這些專班或者是個別協會去開的班級裡頭嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-10T16:17:44.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:18:01.773000+08:00","text":"我舉例跟委員說明，比如我們對一所大學可能會編列高教深耕的經費，那裡面就會鼓勵學校去發展它的特色，如果有某個大學把電競當成是他們的一個特色，那就可以運用這筆錢去發展，但是教育部這邊，目前是沒有特別針對電競去編特定的計畫跟項目。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:18:06.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:18:07.078000+08:00","text":"好，我為什麼要問這些事情？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:18:08.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:18:39.604000+08:00","text":"就是因為現在兩個委員所提版本都是「基本法」，那我覺得在法理上、體例上，我們真的有非常大的必要要跟國人報告什麼叫做「基本法」，我相信部長跟次長一定都非常清楚，但是我還是要說，所謂的「基本法」是因為我們在意的一些基本權利，而且它所涉及的是廣泛的、全國性的人民，不論他在幾歲的時候，也就是說，不論你是在哪一個年齡階段、在哪一個產業領域當中，所以它所影響的族群是非常龐大的。","quality":0.785},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:18:40.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:19:26.349000+08:00","text":"例如教育基本法、文化基本法、社會福利基本法、青年基本法、客家基本法、科學技術基本法等，甚至還有跟國土有關的海洋基本法，還有我們在談多元族群時候都會關心到的原住民族基本法以及所謂的新住民基本法，我認為「基本法」所顧及到的是基本原則、基本準繩跟基本方針，而且如果要去落實基本法，我們要做的相關法律的配套跟設計應該超級無敵多。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:19:28.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:19:40.863000+08:00","text":"就以教育基本法來說，請問次長，我們光是為了教育基本法所設置的相關配套辦法、子法、條例或行政命令，你現在背得出來有多少嗎？很多。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:19:41.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:19:43.684000+08:00","text":"我可不可以說有可能超過100個？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:19:44.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:19:49.627000+08:00","text":"因為我講的是行政命令、條例、辦法這些都包含在內，有可能，對不對？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:19:50.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:20:19.030000+08:00","text":"那假設，我只是假設，假設今天召委硬要決定進行逐條審查，我們可能後續逐條討論，然後再保留、再審查、再討論，但是假設召委真的想要讓它三讀過關，在這麼多法理的問題都還沒有解決之前，在所有的委員、所有公聽會的學者專家今天提出來的問題都沒有辦法解決之前，基本法就是要被過關，那麼請問未來你們可能要花多少的時間去處理所謂的配套辦法、子法、命令或者其他相關法令等等？","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:20:19.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:20:21.732000+08:00","text":"我想先請教育部回答，再請運動部回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-10T16:20:23.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:20:28.790000+08:00","text":"報告委員，對這個部分，可能我們會先看條文內容，再進一步思考教育部要做什麼樣子的配套。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:20:29.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:20:31.751000+08:00","text":"你們目前有看到這兩個委員的版本了嗎？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:20:32.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:20:34.431000+08:00","text":"就你初步的想像呢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-10T16:20:36.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:20:46.193000+08:00","text":"如果從人才培育、產學合作這兩個角度去思考，可能我們要修正的相關行政規則跟行政指導就會涉及到很多了。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:20:46.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:20:50.174000+08:00","text":"很多，我可不可以說半年、一年可能都做不完？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:20:51.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:21:12.283000+08:00","text":"為什麼會舉這麼長的時間，以我自己之前在教文委員會修學輔法為例，當時經過非常多及漫長的討論，最後的癥結點可能就只剩一、兩個，都討論了很多次，然後到目前為止，學輔法其實已經三讀通過了一年多，但我們還有很多事情沒有完成，對不對？","quality":0.584},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-10T16:21:12.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:21:15.125000+08:00","text":"還有幾個子法還需要共識。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:21:15.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:21:28.314000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，而且它涉及到的不是只有教育部認不認真的問題，還牽扯到：一、教育部跟其他部會跨部會的合作；二、中央政府跟地方政府的合作。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:21:28.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:21:38.781000+08:00","text":"這是所以為什麼光是一個學輔法且只是修了其中幾條條文，但是我們在相關配套的子法、條例、行政命令裡面要花這麼長時間的緣故。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:21:40.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:21:58.911000+08:00","text":"接下來請教運動部部長，在你們盤點完之後，你的幕僚有沒有告訴你，假設本法未來真的被三讀通過之後，因為現在的主責機關是押在運動部，那麼你們運動部大概要花多久的時間去想像各式各樣配套的子法、辦法、條例、行政命令等等的？","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-10T16:22:00.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:22:11.694000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想這個就如同您剛剛提到的，確實是非常龐大，基本法一旦訂定下去，當然我們會有非常多的行政命令還有相關的法案需要去推動，時間上確實……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:22:11.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:22:16.778000+08:00","text":"你不敢想像，對不對？確實。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:22:17.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:22:22.504000+08:00","text":"我也不敢想像，但我們可以務實的來看我們目前可以做什麼事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:22:24.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:22:52.482000+08:00","text":"在幾次的關於電子競技基本法的討論當中，我覺得有一件事情，剛剛吳沛憶委員也有講到，在兩次的亞運賽事中，重複的遊戲項目只有4個，意思就是說當這些比賽標的是建立在這些個別廠商的遊戲上的時候，選手當然可以拚命、可以努力，可是它跟一般的運動截然不同。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:22:53.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:23:44.268000+08:00","text":"我舉一個曾經發生過的真實事件為例，任天堂曾經無預警的關停「任天堂明星大亂鬥」的全球最大社群賽事，同時僅簡單的說了一句「那些時代結束了」，我不確定現場長官們有沒有玩這個電動，我只能跟你說，它真的很受歡迎，我身邊的小孩也都有在玩，它是一個很可愛的遊戲，當時的「任天堂明星大亂鬥」世界巡迴錦標賽是由玩家社群所營運的，是世界上規模最大的「任天堂明星大亂鬥」社群電競賽事，我要說的是就算那是社群辦的，不是所謂的亞運也不是所謂的奧運，也不是六都辦的而是社群辦的，但我必須要說，它一定有經過合法授權，對嗎？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:23:44.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:24:07.418000+08:00","text":"但是任天堂當時說停就停，所以2022年跟2023年SWT的賽事都被取消，在聲明當中就只有一句「這個時代已經結束了」，我們不知道任天堂為什麼做出這樣的決定，但是說停就停，所有當年想要參加這個社群賽事的玩家或者是選手們就沒有了。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:24:08.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:24:41.508000+08:00","text":"我上一次在拜託召委安排公聽會，認為要做更多嚴謹的法律研究的時候，講的第一件事情就是所有這些因為遊戲IP延伸出來的活動也好、賽事也好，都必須要事先經過遊戲開發商的同意跟授權，所以如果今天這個東西是掐在這些廠商手上，在未來的不確定性這麼高的情況下，我們要如何合理、合法、合規同時讓這些選手真的覺得他有被照顧到、去協助這些選手？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:24:41.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:24:45.030000+08:00","text":"這是我覺得目前最大的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:24:45.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:25:05.166000+08:00","text":"其次，我們來看一下其他國家怎麼做，目前馬來西亞只著重在政策的部分，也就是說他們為了保障選手的權益還有選手的這些義務，然後也為了避免發生一些弊端，比如作弊的問題、禁藥的問題，所以他們成立了電子競技誠信委員會。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:25:07.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:25:29.804000+08:00","text":"另外，剛剛兩位部長都說到我們未來可能有六都的賽事，所以為了整合各地賽事的規範，他們建立一個統一的積分標準，就是孩子們所謂的巡迴賽，但是它依然只是政策，是嫁接在現在各個部會原有的法律上去做一些加強、調整跟協助，讓賽事可以更順暢，預算可以更多，政策可以更合理。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:25:30.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:25:43.588000+08:00","text":"再看看巴西是怎麼做的，他們只立了一個電子遊戲法律框架，甚至把遊戲視為科技產品跟文化影音產品，把遊戲產業跟電競運動分開。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:25:47.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:26:01.575000+08:00","text":"可能在很多委員的心中，在很多專家學者的心中，認為巴西也好、馬來西亞也好，這兩個國家的電競做得比臺灣好，資源比臺灣多，預算比臺灣多，但即便是這兩個看起來做得比臺灣好、資源比臺灣多的國家，他們都沒有為了這個立一個專法。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:26:02.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:26:11.422000+08:00","text":"所以我要說，今天在考慮要立這個專法的時候，我們所擔心的其實有一部分是來自這個，不知道李洋部長對此怎麼看？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-10T16:26:12.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:26:25.689000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，首先還是要強調，我們對於電子競技這個運動的推動，是本部跟委員們都非常高度重視的，今天上午的公聽會中大家對此也有高度的共識。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-06-10T16:26:26.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:26:47.207000+08:00","text":"過去我們在推動上面確實比較慢，我想運動部接下來會針對電子競技運動的部分來積極地推動，對這部分我們肯定會有更多的方法去推動電子競技運動，那當然也很感謝每一位委員對於我們電子競技的重視。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:26:47.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:26:49.949000+08:00","text":"文化部今天有人來列席嗎？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:26:49.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:26:54.153000+08:00","text":"好，接下來我要請教文化部的意見。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:27:01.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:27:10.162000+08:00","text":"以巴西的角度來看，他們把遊戲視為科技產品跟文化影音產品，與遊戲產業分開，一旦關係到IP授權，可能又會回到文化部本身或者是智財局本身。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:27:11.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:27:17.408000+08:00","text":"請問文化部的長官，當它立為一個基本法之後，文化部未來在面對這樣的事情可能有哪些因應之道？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:27:17.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:27:26.773000+08:00","text":"包含我剛剛講的「任天堂明星大亂鬥」，官方公司突然說不辦就不辦，說取消就取消，說不授權就不授權，你們自己怎麼看？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2026-06-10T16:27:27.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:27:55.565000+08:00","text":"這部分的爭議其實要回到著作權法的基本爭議，它是不是能夠在電競基本法裡面去規範，我們不確定，但是因為授權問題是所有文化內容最上游的一個基本問題，如果那一塊授權問題沒有被穩定的賦予權力而且有法律條文拘束的話，的確在應用上會有問題，不過這應該不是只有電競或電子遊戲，基本上應該是所有文化內容的IP授權源頭的問題。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:27:56.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:28:13.141000+08:00","text":"如同次長說的，我研究了羅委員跟葛委員的版本，裡面確實沒有辦法規範這件事情，所以真的就很有可能發生我剛剛說的，當官方授權說收就收、說不做就不做時，這件事情其實是嚴重影響到選手的權益，對嗎？是。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:28:13.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:28:18.344000+08:00","text":"但是很可惜，確實也沒有辦法規範到，謝謝文化部，那我們接著往下看。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:28:19.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:28:20.965000+08:00","text":"不好意思，發言時間已經到了。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:28:21.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:28:29.289000+08:00","text":"不好意思，主席，我還沒有問完，拜託再給我一點時間，我們既然要修法，那就好好討論，可以嗎？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:28:29.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:28:29.469000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:28:31.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:28:53.169000+08:00","text":"我要說的是不管是運動部也好，還是數發部、勞動部、文化部、衛福部、經濟部，各地方政府跟各個部會現在分頭在電子競技做了哪些事情，而當我們把這些一條一條東西拿來對照主席您的版本的時候，幾乎在現行法規裡面都有了。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:28:54.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:29:22.072000+08:00","text":"比如「從事電子競技遊戲專用的電腦及其周邊設備」有經濟部；「國內本土遊戲產業開發」有數發部；未來一旦有授權IP的問題，可以透過文化部和智財局來協助；「選手就業輔導與核可僱用外籍選手來臺工作」部分，勞動部有現行法規；「在學電競選手的學業輔導」有教育部；「文創智慧財產開發、電子競技專長類別替代役評選」有文化部。","quality":0.522},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:29:23.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:30:12.953000+08:00","text":"今天早上我在後面簽到的時候也遇到國內的遊戲開發廠商，他們說他們是在做國內第一款競技遊戲的廠商，我們也希望未來可以扶植像這樣的本土遊戲廠商，做出一個可以揚名國際的競技遊戲，這部分有勞文化部；一旦涉及到未成年人的身心健康，甚至未來可能有上癮問題的時候，我們衛福部已經有相關的法令；或者是電子競技實體場館的土地分區使用、建築管理，還有消防、公安等場域規範，必須有各個部會及地方政府共同規範，也就是說，目前我們手上看到羅委員的版本也好、葛委員的版本也好，在你們的基本法草案裡面其實很多都沒有寫到這些，未來基本法如果真的三讀通過之後跟現在這些要怎麼競合，我還是沒有看到相關的說法。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:30:13.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:30:29.148000+08:00","text":"我不認為這只是部會的責任，我認為當一個負責任的立法委員要提出一個你認為是舉世創新、獨一無二的基本法，只獨厚某一個單獨運動項目的時候，就必須要做這樣的法規盤點，但很可惜我現在沒有看到。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:30:30.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:30:32.490000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下臺灣的現況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:30:32.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:30:51.294000+08:00","text":"剛剛很多人都講到很多的事情，我相信主席一定非常在意選手的權益，因為在您的版本裡面提到了非常多權益的保障、勞動權益的保障、條約的處理，我認為未來定型化契約絕對可以處理這個事情，還有相關的兵役問題，其實有一些事情我們都可以往下做。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:30:51.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:30:53.415000+08:00","text":"因為時間有限，我就不再贅述。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:30:55.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:30:58.299000+08:00","text":"此外，我們可能也擔心一些成癮的問題。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:30:58.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:31:20.834000+08:00","text":"確實網路遊戲成癮目前在世界衛生組織的國際疾病分類，已經正式列為精神疾病遊戲障礙症，定義為一種遊戲行為模式，而這個事情，我不是說電子競技運動選手必然會有網路遊戲成癮的問題，但是我們在訂定所有基本法法規的時候，難道不用去擔心目前可能就已經產生的問題嗎？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:31:22.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:31:38.718000+08:00","text":"為了這個事情，韓國為所謂的遊戲成癮者成立了公費治療中心；馬來西亞則透過推動教育、預防和治療進行，這些事情都正在發生中，這些也都是負責任的立法者及他們的辦公室必須要積極研究跟處理的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:31:41.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:31:45.080000+08:00","text":"接下來，我要說法制規定不宜操之過急。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:31:45.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:31:51.322000+08:00","text":"我也想跟主席分享，AI基本法在2023年提出法規構想、2024年經立院討論、2025年法規三讀；青年基本法也是。","quality":0.513},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:31:51.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:32:02.887000+08:00","text":"但是在那之前，其實很多人就已經提了青年基本法，吳思瑤委員一上任、進入立法院，他是全立法院第一個提出青年基本法，但他並不是在2023年提出。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:32:03.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:32:22.536000+08:00","text":"所以我要說有勇氣成為第一個提出基本法的委員固然令人佩服，但我並不認為他可以草率地讓它過關，甚至在吳思瑤委員提出來的時候，民進黨黨團在立法院裡面可能是多數，但也沒有用多數輾壓的方法想要讓這個基本法就草率過關。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:32:23.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:32:57.418000+08:00","text":"我要再次公開呼籲跟拜託，我相信今天所有願意出席質詢跟早上公聽會的委員及學者專家，絕對都尊重並且認同照顧電競選手，扶植電競產業，讓臺灣的臺灣遊戲廠商也好、硬體設備廠商也好，都可以因為相關的政策、相關的預算，覺得自己是被國家看見的、被國家照顧的，但是在那之前，對於每一個委員所提出的質疑跟擔心，都拜託部會要一起合作努力，同時委員們也必須給予相關政策制定的時間跟討論。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:32:57.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:33:19.511000+08:00","text":"所以我要再次強調，法規制定當然重要，相關的產業照顧當然重要，相關權益者的權利照顧當然重要，但如果只是為了過而過，那絕對不是人民的福利，也不是一個合格、夠好的、優秀的立法委員該做的事情，我要拜託主席三思。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:33:20.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-10T16:33:32.998000+08:00","text":"後續我不確定我們在這個會期會發生什麼事情，但是我要拜託各個部會未來在相關選手的權益保障、產業的扶植、設備廠商的照顧等等，以及更多利益關係人、stakeholder的狀況，拜託各個部會積極地掌握，給予協助，讓更多在這個產業裡面的人或者是未來希望進入這個產業的人，都可以覺得國家有把大家放在心上。以上。謝謝。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:33:33.498000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:33:36.926571+08:00","text":"謝謝委員特別提到，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:33:37.226571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:33:52.369429+08:00","text":"也跟委員特別報告，上次委員有提到一些與博弈相關的，希望能夠排除，所以我們在版本裡面有提到把博弈類別的也都全部排除。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:33:52.669429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:34:14.955143+08:00","text":"另外，委員剛剛提到的任天堂明星大亂鬥，因為他們取消的是非官方的部分，我們可以看到他們希望在商業盈利的部分應該做一個嚴格的限制，後續在2023年他們也提出了相關的授權申請辦法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:34:15.255143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:34:32.112286+08:00","text":"所以可以看到遊戲原廠仗著自己有原廠，所以基本上他們需要更專業的窗口去對接，它的複雜性、特殊性也是我們今天在公聽會不斷在討論的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:34:32.412286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:34:46.698000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員非常用心，整理了許多部會所提供的服務與政策，我們看到這麼多的政策跟方法，但都10年了，為什麼產業哀鴻遍野？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:34:46.998000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:34:49.569429+08:00","text":"為什麼選手紛紛出走？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:34:49.869429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:35:07.869429+08:00","text":"如果那些方法都有用的話，今天我們也不希望繼續討論修改任何的政策；如果那些方法都有用，部長就不會在媒體受訪的時候，坦承我們遇到很大的困境。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:35:08.169429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:35:14.455143+08:00","text":"我相信委員的建議我們都會採納，我也回應一下委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:35:14.755143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:35:16.469429+08:00","text":"主席，我要抗議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:35:16.769429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:35:18.483714+08:00","text":"我可以抗議嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:35:18.783714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:35:19.926571+08:00","text":"程序抗議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:35:20.226571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:35:33.369429+08:00","text":"每一個立法委員有自己切入的觀點、價值觀、角度跟研究法案的方法，我不認為主席可以評價我剛剛的質詢。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:35:33.669429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:35:44.240857+08:00","text":"跟委員說一下，不好意思，讓你覺得我是評價，就是想說回應一下，因為剛剛你不斷地點名我。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-06-10T16:35:44.540857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:36:00.255143+08:00","text":"如果你真的要討論，我們還有逐條討論的時間，反正你都卯起來要排逐條了，我不認為主席有這個權力可以評價任何一個委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:36:00.555143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:36:09.698000+08:00","text":"我沒有要評價，只是因為剛剛委員有點名我，所以我應該要跟你回應一下。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:36:09.998000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:36:15.426571+08:00","text":"因為我剛剛有宣告要休息，我們現在休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:36:15.726571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:36:16.869429+08:00","text":"休息（16時36分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:36:17.169429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:36:18.883714+08:00","text":"繼續開會（16時46分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:36:19.183714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:36:20.898000+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-10T16:36:21.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-10T16:36:24.055143+08:00","text":"有請伍麗華委員做詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}