{"error":false,"id":["169962"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169962,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169962","日期":"2026-06-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-11T10:37:54+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-11T10:50:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5a3f69ccecb4f85e69b5d0ff1820b3c3fb40f357bf30cd03e17344bb7e5875ef642409915d7b18685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:37:54 - 10:50:19","會議時間":"2026-06-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一) 委員柯志恩等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員柯志恩等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一) 委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 國民黨黨團擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員羅明才等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員葛如鈞等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八) 委員羅智強等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(九) 委員賴士葆等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十) 委員林倩綺等23人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一) 委員葉元之等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四) 委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五) 委員張雅琳等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六) 委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十七) 委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查\n(一) 委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案\n四、審查\n(一) 委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員葉元之等18人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n……(因系統字數上限，詳參議事日程)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.35034375,"end":12.535343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.016593750000002,"end":11.590343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.24784375,"end":16.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.58034375,"end":31.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.519718750000003,"end":34.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.502218750000004,"end":50.065343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.892218750000005,"end":68.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.59409375,"end":70.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.22221875000001,"end":76.45784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.98096875,"end":86.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.39284375000001,"end":98.14221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.32784375,"end":101.36534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.07409375,"end":112.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.75159375000001,"end":116.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.12659375000001,"end":117.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.35846875000001,"end":121.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.49284375,"end":123.42096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.58534375,"end":125.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.86784375,"end":127.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.56784375,"end":130.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.68971875,"end":140.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.59534375,"end":146.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.22721875000002,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.18034375000002,"end":152.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.81721875000002,"end":155.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.58471875,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.71096875,"end":160.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.28846875000002,"end":163.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.81534375,"end":166.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.55346875,"end":169.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.67534375000002,"end":180.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.62284375000002,"end":193.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.92471875,"end":198.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.71284375000002,"end":213.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.36471875,"end":215.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.84534375,"end":216.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.36846875,"end":232.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.64846875,"end":235.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.41596875000002,"end":241.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.47846875000002,"end":242.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.86221875,"end":248.93721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.88659375,"end":260.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.90159375,"end":265.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.94721875,"end":268.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.63034375,"end":272.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.05159375,"end":273.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.13159375000004,"end":279.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.88596875,"end":320.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.34784375000004,"end":326.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.82784375,"end":329.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.53221875,"end":333.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.91971875,"end":334.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.48909375,"end":339.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.60659375,"end":350.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.72284375000004,"end":353.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.20346875,"end":362.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.31596875,"end":387.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.78471875,"end":405.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.30096875000004,"end":431.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.74284375,"end":413.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.20659375,"end":416.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.13346875,"end":424.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.32659375000003,"end":430.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.60909375,"end":431.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.62596875,"end":431.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.81159375000004,"end":431.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.84534375000004,"end":444.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.09846875000005,"end":432.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.44846875,"end":433.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.25721875000005,"end":442.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","star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吳思瑤 郭育晴 吳立華 吳佩奕 張雅玲 陳培宇委員所提出來的版本因為仍在復一期所以沒有辦法列案交委讀後國民黨的版本就丟包了這些民進黨委員的版本學貸三法有這麼急嗎"},{"start":151.483,"end":163.423,"text":"搶著今天列案把其他的版本丟包了而且今天要逐條逐條如果通過了違憲的版本然後我們民進黨的版本最終"},{"start":164.861,"end":179.655,"text":"不見天日我們連搶救的機會都沒有我再說一次這些法案重要但有比預算重要嗎應當先審預算而不是搶牌法案我還是要再一次強調"},{"start":181.697,"end":197.897,"text":"回到今天的版本学贷三法行政部门扩大照顾学生帮助学习减负担我们已经覆盖率达到52%的大专生受惠了对不对我们的学杂费减免每年投入的国家预算280亿"},{"start":199.799,"end":214.727,"text":"在就學貸款的部分賴總統宣示的新的方案在學期間免息還款的寬延期限延長到畢業後兩年還款的利率也再降一趴每年增加的預算是15億"},{"start":216.528,"end":232.516,"text":"所以说这个280亿跟15亿是整体行政院教育部在审着国家的财政纪律政府做得到政府能做政府愿意做政府行有余力行政权就可以上路我们编预算"},{"start":233.717,"end":248.642,"text":"然後有需要修法嗎次長我們像之前的這個學長費減免高中職學費全免有需要修法嗎這個部分我們都是用計劃方案或是根據既有的授權辦法就可以執行"},{"start":249.702,"end":278.411,"text":"所以說行政權跟立法權的分工非常清楚行政院為了擴大照顧學生擴大照顧弱勢他編列預算修正相關的辦法法規就可以執行而不是立法院在這裡搶功勞在這裡要割到尾在這裡要無視財政紀律一再的違憲加碼下一頁我們來看看今天提出來這些版本我要強調民進黨委員的版本都被丟包齁"},{"start":280.049,"end":286.174,"text":"國民黨委員提出來的要加碼再加碼家庭所得淨額適用率稅率12%的就要免納學費家庭所得最後五等分最低20%就要免納學費加總起來上面的是要每年增加400億的國家預算下面這個五等分的要另外增加100億的國家預算加起來就要再膨脹500億的國家預算"},{"start":306.792,"end":333.032,"text":"依據財政紀律法依據預算法依據憲法立委是不可以增加政府支出除非你找到合理的籌措裁員而且要跟行政部門來商議這500億教育部因為才化法我們已經少了900多億的預算了一年怎麼在籌措呢所以我認為這些東西我真的不樂見立委"},{"start":335.941,"end":350.363,"text":"說我們要擴大照顧學生很好我們都支持可是讓行政部門在行政部門的權限裡頭去做啊一再的修法加碼加碼立委不需要去籌措預算立委只需要這樣子來開支票"},{"start":351.769,"end":378.128,"text":"我實在不能接受啊下一頁所以說支持學生的權益各黨都一致我要再次強調民進黨立委的版本不應當被丟包我們該做的是進行原則性的修法授權行政部門去執行在學貸三法的部分大學法35條增列第三項政府因依學生家庭所得或其他的經濟狀況提供經濟不利"},{"start":380.409,"end":404.873,"text":"處境學生助學措施其執行額度條件權利義務由教育部定制高級中等教育法跟專科學校法亦然民進黨委員的版本就是給予一個母法的授權原則性的規範其執行的條件額度權利義務授權教育部門來進行你們是不是比較同意這樣子的作為啊"},{"start":405.382,"end":431.18,"text":"是 謝謝委員確實如果以就學貸款來講目前的三個法令本來就有一個授權辦法所以就過去20年教育部我們就做了很多都是這樣做嘛所以我們期待如果有這樣的空間我就舉一個例子我們最早的學貸是你畢業後一年就要開始還款了然後我們在民國95年有特別去規定如果你的月收入沒有超過3萬塊你可以都不要還"},{"start":432.4,"end":457.698,"text":"最多可以三年可是随着整个经济的发展跟学生青年的负荷我们现在已经变成说你月薪在五万块以下你都可以来申请连本金一起都不用还所以我们都在舍着学生的需要减轻学生的负担不管是在学期间或是他出出社会缓缓的那个压力所以行政权限该做的而且有财政的能力的权衡我们一定做"},{"start":458.579,"end":482.344,"text":"做到能做的極致但立法委員該做的就是原則性的修法授權行政部門去合理執行而如果認為行政部門執行的不到位立法委員可以用的工具是什麼就是審預算啊我在審預算的時候認為你這項高教師做得不夠好國教署做得不正確我可以用審預算的時候提出我的把關不是嗎但是現在預算不審啊"},{"start":486.246,"end":516.006,"text":"在下面一个营养午餐我很快的结束营养午餐下一个22个县市全面宣布营养午餐分两类第一类是在才化法还没修正的时候有10个县市包括桃园在内就有10个县市自己省着地方财源是OK的在才化法修正前中央还没有把这么多更多的钱下放地方之前10个县市就自己扛自己认为行有余力地方愿意自行买单"},{"start":517.027,"end":540.182,"text":"才化法修正之後因為中央擴大了以台北市每年增加給台北市政府多拿了460億對不起470億新北可以每年多拿432億所以地方政府認為在才化法新修之後他行有餘力另外的12個縣市也全面宣布營養午餐免費"},{"start":541.002,"end":558.189,"text":"這告訴我們省著財政狀況是重要的不管是中央或地方地方自己辦得到地方手腳負責任他願意用地方的財力去買單營養午餐這就是現在的政策進行是嗎但是現在"},{"start":559.861,"end":581.229,"text":"我看到委員又要修法把地方自己能夠負擔自己願意自行買單的卻要透過修法要強加 又要中央去搶單這可不道理如果說這個營養午餐修法又被這樣片面增加了立法就是行政部門的支出會增加多少億啊 每年"},{"start":584.881,"end":604.365,"text":"138億嘛我們原本三張EQ每年願意給地方74億現在反過來財化法下放了預算之後再搭配在議黨委員提出的版本又違憲又違反預算法又違反財政紀律法又將把中央的教育部門每年要再增加138億的預算所以下一頁"},{"start":611.122,"end":639.971,"text":"財化法挖空了中央財源中央已經每年少了4165億地方可以增加4000多億的預算如果我要再一次提醒今天的三個就是說今天的學貸三法跟營養午餐法營養午餐法會增加中央138億然後學貸會增加400億加100億是500億所以今天的這個法律如果在立法院又倉促的"},{"start":641.081,"end":662.647,"text":"修正通過了就今天教育委員會又會增加教育部門行政部門一年638億的預算支出很可觀很可怕教育部今年的預算已經少了多少教育部本部因為才化法的後遺症下一頁今年已經減少了892億的預算"},{"start":666.144,"end":675.31,"text":"如果今天一天學貸三法加上營養五三法又要中央買單立委強行片面增加政府預算支出又會增加638億一年"},{"start":678.94,"end":706.579,"text":"國家會垮欸財政紀律不復存在欸這是嚴肅的課題教育部門勇敢的表達你們的立場照顧學生協助地方我們每一天都在做我也要請在野黨的委員三思再三思今天一旦逐條審查通過又要增加638億的教育部門的支出錢在哪裡次長錢在哪裡"},{"start":708.43,"end":734.475,"text":"我們期待可以透過我們現在的執法讓步裡面可以橫著財政跟學生需求來照顧精準的照顧到有需要的學生所以立委不要為加碼而加碼立委當好立法院的工作立法院不要搶當行政院國家的財政這樣子真的會整個崩壞財政制度638億今天的"},{"start":737.675,"end":742.341,"text":"四個法案我真的覺得大家三思再三思謝謝好謝謝委員請坐"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}