{"error":false,"id":["169963"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169963,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169963","日期":"2026-06-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-11T10:54:12+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-11T11:14:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:19:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5a3f69ccecb4f85ed5f92d78c5c4213bfb40f357bf30cd037edf230e2e918ce04a3685e9cc37c4ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"10:54:12 - 11:14:06","會議時間":"2026-06-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一) 委員柯志恩等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員柯志恩等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一) 委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 國民黨黨團擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員羅明才等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員葛如鈞等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八) 委員羅智強等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(九) 委員賴士葆等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十) 委員林倩綺等23人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一) 委員葉元之等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四) 委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五) 委員張雅琳等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六) 委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十七) 委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查\n(一) 委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案\n四、審查\n(一) 委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員葉元之等18人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 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請羅廷偉委員尋答好 謝謝 有請次長好 有請次長有請次長 有請署長署長委員好"},{"start":26.209,"end":41.422,"text":"好 次長首先先跟你請教一下行政院已經核定調高教師一到七節的終點費標準我們不斷一直在倡議希望能夠幫老師爭取更多權益但是課後以及寒暑假並未同步調整導致課內的終點費調高以後"},{"start":43.524,"end":57.734,"text":"出現了我們現在學習輔助的終點費偏低老師紛紛呼應我們也講了很多個月很多老師不斷一直在私底下請我們繼續追蹤請問這件事情什麼時候要辦理"},{"start":59.212,"end":76.531,"text":"跟委員報告因為課後的部分會涉及到家長的負擔所以我們先前也有跟地方家長這邊有做一些討論但目前還沒有進一步的共識什麼時候可以去做進一步的共識探討因為老師的權益也很重要"},{"start":77.651,"end":103.101,"text":"對老師的權益非常重要這樣的一個付出我們也看到他很努力所以我們大概在6月9號開過第一次跟縣市政府的會議那公式度還需要再凝聚那我們7月還會再開一次那我們在這個暑假前會把縣市政府甚至在地的家長的意見都策整完備之後看看大家有更公式的方式來處理到有具體的時間表嗎7月會再開第二次"},{"start":104.225,"end":127.908,"text":"7月加速進行拜託好不好接下來要跟我們兩位特別來拜託我們來重視這相關的不管是校事會議校園霸凌我覺得師對生 生對師綜合的相關案件都應該要予以尊重公平處理我們先來看PTT"},{"start":129.133,"end":155.825,"text":"我們看到有知名的網紅所貼出的這一個個案女老師被戳我們的屁股那反被逼離職那我們可以看到這一個裡面的內容訪談五位同班學生一致描述行為人是惡意對不起故意戳老師訪談五位同學學生中有三位提到"},{"start":157.199,"end":184.293,"text":"被行為人有些問旁邊的同學要不要戳老師眾上所述調查小組認為即使被行為人是故意戳行為人的屁股甚至是直接啦 這個我就不念了身為老師還是不應該有傷害學生的行為對於這個案例"},{"start":187.914,"end":209.609,"text":"我覺得老師非常無奈啊那你怎麼看 市長是 跟我們報告 因為這是113年的案子所以我們會請那個 因為宜蘭縣政府這邊來處理但是在今年115年1月修正我們的家屬體育培育辦法之後"},{"start":210.365,"end":231.487,"text":"對於如果在校事會的決議有不當的主管機關是可以退回學校去重啟那你有沒有覺得不當你有沒有覺得不當這個部分我想因為這個審議結果你覺得合理嗎對這部分要由主管機關他們可能要再去做一些審酌跟重新那這個你有沒有覺得他應該重新再做一個評估"},{"start":232.816,"end":256.363,"text":"如果以我因為這個案Case這個個案我沒有去看到他詳細的案子但如果以目前的這個部分來看確實主管機關有在審酌的必要我想這個部分我們都要好好的重視剛剛有委員提到的鐵拳教育到現在我們看到許多的個案不斷的被放在網路上供大家來檢視我們的校園到底怎麼了"},{"start":257.372,"end":280.427,"text":"我也要來讓你看看我們不要只看鐵拳教育這樣子的一個韓劇我們來看真實各個國家有沒有發生類似的問題他們怎麼來解決我們來看下一個PD台灣跟韓國我想我們都有一個非常高相似度的就是家長的投訴機制"},{"start":282.182,"end":298.214,"text":"我們當然要給他們一個投訴機制但是有沒有去了解到是不是有失控是不是有失公允那造成防禦性的教學蔓延教師的心理健康惡化所以韓國在九年內"},{"start":300.493,"end":321.187,"text":"網路的資料是寫一萬一千六百多名的教師遭家長以虐童的名義來做檢舉最終引爆2023年有教師自殺事件促使立法回應那台灣的狀況我想不用我再多述了台灣的狀況近期也是非常的相似那我們看下一個"},{"start":322.915,"end":343.347,"text":"在2023年他們的修法的內容當中我們可以看到他們韓國修法的核心內容包括明文規定家長尊重教師的教育指導義務賦予校長處理家長投訴的責任教師正當生活指導排除"},{"start":344.574,"end":372.194,"text":"兒童福利法部分禁止行為的適用教師遭虐童檢舉時禁止無正當理由的停職但是教育需立即的迅速表達意見家長惡意投訴妨礙公務罪 誣告罪等納入侵害教育生活相關的活動行為強化校長與教育"},{"start":373.336,"end":398.778,"text":"他的應對機制擴大受害教師的保護跟復原資源我們上次有教師法三讀通過將停聘還他清白以後給他本奉研究加錢但是我們看到其他的修法內容有沒有什麼我們可以做的我們可以參考的"},{"start":399.628,"end":422.882,"text":"那您覺得呢韓國的這個案例謝謝文指導我們在113年針對教師管教這個部分有一個注意事項裡面已經有針對說老師對於在教室發生一些不法或是破壞的行為他是可以採取一些必要的手段而且這些手段不會造成他因此受到處罰有這樣的主缺的事有"},{"start":423.382,"end":442.733,"text":"我想這個部分的做法也跟韓國的這個方向是類似的但是那個就看起來就是一個指引提醒那有沒有辦法入法甚至有沒有機會在未來能夠更加完善這個我們是不是應該參考各個鄰近國家他們的做法我們來保護老師"},{"start":444.534,"end":460.756,"text":"我也在這段時間不斷的在探尋很多的家長團體也好教師團體也好我們不斷的了解他們意見其實我們也看到許多的家長在反應他們支持持續的修正能夠讓公平"},{"start":462.14,"end":473.893,"text":"這個部分能夠繼續的在這個校園的過程當中能夠真正的落實所以他們並不是也全然的接受現階段的校事會議"},{"start":475.635,"end":503.015,"text":"所以我要再一次詢問你們一直在講你們在滾動式修正有沒有具體的修正版本是還有公佈期程是跟我們報告因為在今年1月公佈之後我們有說有半年時間我知道那我們在7月份的時候會針對我們半年這半年以來7月有沒有大概具體幾號我們在7月中以前7月中會有一個分析檢討"},{"start":504.124,"end":516.58,"text":"好 七月中我是希望說這個分析檢討真的要讓我們都知道一下那有沒有朝向更進一步怎麼樣的一個修正比如說現階段教師還是對於匿名檢舉這個部分還是很有意見的"},{"start":518.312,"end":543.892,"text":"匿名檢舉能不能夠有更公平的一個做法這部分可以回應一下嗎好 謝謝我深入剛剛委員提點的我們接下來也會針對剛剛提到在教師管教的部分會有一些更明確是不是可以參考委員剛剛提示的對啊 那是剛剛提示你說另外要參考的部分嘛我說校製會議的部分你們要朝向哪裡修正可不可以跟大家先預告一下"},{"start":545.838,"end":563.358,"text":"匿名檢舉的部分你們會修正嗎現在已經刪除匿名檢舉是不受理的也分流了我聽到教師第一線的回饋教師團體還是說他們還是實際有匿名檢舉的狀況所以是不是溝通上有誤解還是你的政策並沒有寫得很完善"},{"start":564.042,"end":593.26,"text":"我想我們會跟地方政府收集相關成案的狀況因為上次也有委員提到嘛小朋友在網路上教大家看老師不爽可以就是隨便檢舉他性品相關的可是這個部分的網路檢舉的方式也還是有匿名的狀況啊那這個部分到底有沒有去修正可不可以朝這個方向七月的時候能夠有這樣更具體的我們一併再拉到我們的檢討分析裡面我想老師的身心健康的權益保障"},{"start":594.502,"end":610.76,"text":"家庭教育的加強是離縣權力能夠更落實能夠有一個指引甚至入法行政減量能不能入法這個部分您的態度是如何"},{"start":611.933,"end":637.734,"text":"跟文報告就是說法規面作用法基本上大概都是希望讓他有些彈性來做調整所以要不要入法這個事情我們可以來評估研議我希望你們要好好的具體的去研議那是不是能夠隨著這一段時間到7月15的時候能夠有一個研議報告讓我們知道一下好不好那7月15我們想知道你們的狀況好不好那另外我想請問一下署長"},{"start":639.764,"end":665.532,"text":"署長在這一次我們教育委員會到日本考察我必須坦白講你有幾個舉動我很感動我看著你跟我們一起蹲在那邊近距離的接觸孩童去了解他們的教學過程然後不斷的在做筆記我在旁邊看我覺得我覺得真的是非常的動人"},{"start":666.482,"end":689.69,"text":"我也一直不斷的跟所有委員分享其實你是蠻認真第二其實剛好我們在享受校園營養午餐的時候我跟你分配在同一組我不知道你還記得嗎我就坐在你後面我看著你不斷的在透過翻譯軟體跟孩子詢問除了營養午餐之外你還記得你問一題嗎你問上課時間"},{"start":692.842,"end":714.35,"text":"上課幾點上課放學的時間透過去訪談這些日本孩子去了解我們的教學環境的差異其實我也都在觀察因為我們更希望你有別於立法委員的重要性你是行政權的代表第一線去了解執行的狀況"},{"start":715.779,"end":728.729,"text":"那我也想問你啊那你覺得營養午餐的部分實際跟日本執行的政策當中就我所了解跟我們之前所接觸到的資料不太一樣那您覺得呢"},{"start":729.793,"end":751.011,"text":"我們看了兩種形態哪一種是在一個小學它是用傳統我們聽的比較多的叫給食中心另外我們是到東京的一個特別區它有23個特別區是用區裡面的各校但它不是給食中心是各校"},{"start":751.952,"end":776.379,"text":"自己來供應的這個就跟我們一般文獻上比較少談到以為日本絕大多數或是比較多是解實中心所以到實地之後發現還是有很多學校如我們也是學校自辦接著即便是解實中心它怎麼運作解實中心的相關編制也好"},{"start":777.319,"end":797.896,"text":"食安管理也好或是小朋友實際在吃的倒數餐的倒數也好以及小朋友實際在教室內的飲食教育也好這些大概實際看了之後跟我們文獻所直接看到的會有一些相對照現場的實際情形"},{"start":800.479,"end":823.841,"text":"所以你覺得有差距嗎過往的資料跟現場狀況有差距嗎即便現場看到的跟過往做個對照也可以看到過往很多團體去縣市自己去那麼他們可能會看到自己的角度也許縣市的角色那我們去會看到縣市的角色學校的角色以及甚至文部省的角色等等"},{"start":824.69,"end":836.052,"text":"所以我觉得实际看到能够更加的有所了解在执行状况那另外我们在看AI教育ICT教育的时候其实我们对于他们的师生比"},{"start":837.352,"end":856.63,"text":"你覺得呢?是,那一天看到的是一個五年級的班的數學教育你分享他自己的資料一下,好不好?我們也請教他他是全年級分組教學還是班內分組教學那麼經過比較現場的了解釐清是班內的三組分組教學"},{"start":857.33,"end":883.618,"text":"那麼這三類的分組教學我們也跟他探討那麼教材怎麼樣的一個配置有沒有音樂學生的個別化做不同的像我們有AI的個別化指導等等也做了一些現場的互動探討市長一個班將近二十位啦是分成三組三組平均大概六個小朋友左右六到七個"},{"start":885.376,"end":906.493,"text":"六到七個小朋友 面對兩個老師一個主要 一個輔導還有一個大學的 學 師 師 師 師 師 師師師生幫忙來做輔助協助這個師生比 我們也嚇一跳幾乎是一比二 一比三啊"},{"start":907.825,"end":936.101,"text":"當然他們覺得世性教育然後分級甚至是能夠高強度的關心對政來下藥甚至是因材施教我覺得這個都是我們帶行政權帶國教署署長去看我們可以有所加強的當然能不能達到1比2 1比3對我們來說有一大很大的差距啦但是他們為什麼這麼的重視教育我覺得我們實際去看嘛"},{"start":937.068,"end":944.85,"text":"所以我也希望說署長包括不管是AICT我們看到地線的狀況然後我們也去拜訪私校"},{"start":946.278,"end":968.696,"text":"剛剛那個是 不是私校喔也拜訪了私校那還有我們營養午餐的一個辦法是不是有機會你也要如實的跟不管部長 次長來轉達跟過往我們所看到的文獻我之前看到的文獻其實基本上也都是疫情前的 有一段距離的那我們希望實際的教學"},{"start":970.073,"end":992.745,"text":"場域所遇到他們的狀況能夠如實的來跟次長部長來反應尤其原本張料萬間次長要跟我們去但是他因故有請假這部分希望你能夠如實的轉達讓他們知道我們在營養午餐的推進上包括我們一直在講的營養師的制度他們的營養師是不是也跟我們不太一樣"},{"start":994.315,"end":1020.678,"text":"就是說原來我們認為日本可能有依法用550比1這類現場了解比例上倒還是有彈性但是委員可能趙偉想要講到的是營養教師這一塊那麼營養教師他有雙證因此他進行營養業務時他因為還有教師的license因此他在營養教育上他是有這個權利的對不對"},{"start":1022.44,"end":1039.042,"text":"那營養教育他不是營養師喔他只是另外一個證書而已然後獲得營養教育的一個工作權利的授予那小朋友也多鼓勵他們吃家長無法提供的飲食內容比如說他們就很堅持希望能夠提供魚類"},{"start":1040.902,"end":1054.865,"text":"因為學生回到家不太會攝取魚類那他們為了提供魚類就會有魚刺的問題他們還特別教國小低年級小朋友要如何食用秋刀魚然後拍攝影片教學"},{"start":1056.229,"end":1071.515,"text":"所以這個部分都是我們教學環境上我們在做食農教育也好我們在做飲食禮儀的介紹也好這都是值得我們參考的我想當下我也跟署長講署長這個我也要希望你現場能夠承諾我我們不斷的在講說"},{"start":1072.995,"end":1090.166,"text":"在食用營養午餐的前面可不可以做一個簡單的飲食教育我們今天攝取多少蛋白今天所吃的營養午餐他的故事他的原產地在哪裡能夠做基本的廣播"},{"start":1091.227,"end":1110.681,"text":"分享或者是同學上台講一下一分鐘用餐讓孩子知道他平常吃的東西的內容學生也會回到家裡跟家長分享家長也會安心營養午餐的內容他大概知道這個不用花到預算那我們可不可以做署長"},{"start":1112.233,"end":1141.069,"text":"就因為文講了之後我們也去思考它的運作的可行性那就會涉及到22縣市跟9萬個班那我們再看看怎麼樣可以讓老師在行政不必加量這個我要強調不要找老師所以我們看到日本的狀況他們是有廣播那廣播的聲音你一聽也知道是小朋友再來當然還有一個部分班長或者是體育股長他們小朋友上台分享"},{"start":1141.969,"end":1164.788,"text":"這也是訓練講話的機會嘛當然最直接的也可以所謂的外散業者來錄音廣播內容然後來播放嘛這個也都不用去麻煩老師啊所以我覺得這個沒有人力的問題也沒有所謂的預算的問題我們看如何落實所以在這一次我們看到日本實際操作的狀況我也希望我們要有所改變可以嗎"},{"start":1166.35,"end":1190.62,"text":"謝謝委員我們現在整理報告中會讓委員知道說有一些經過探訪之後詳細了解之後的改變那當然也一定會跟副市長做完整的說明一個月內給我相關資料可以嗎沒問題一個月是沒問題因為羅志祥委員也有參加我覺得大家都感覺非常有意義也希望說實際帶回來我們有所改變好不好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:54:13.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:54:13.049000+08:00","text":"謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:54:13.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:54:24.572000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-11T10:54:24.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:54:25.112000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:54:25.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:54:25.552000+08:00","text":"有請次長、有請署長。署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T10:54:25.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:54:38.209000+08:00","text":"委員好。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:54:38.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:09.714000+08:00","text":"次長，首先先跟你請教一下，行政院已經核定調高教師一到七節的鐘點費標準，我們不斷一直在倡議，希望能夠幫老師爭取更多權益，但是課後以及寒暑假並未同步調整，導致課內的鐘點費調高以後，出現了我們現在學習輔助的鐘點費偏低，老師紛紛呼籲，我們也講了很多個月，很多老師私底下還一直不斷請我們繼續追蹤，請問，這件事情什麼時候要辦理？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:11.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:23.465000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為課後的部分會涉及到家長的負擔，所以我們先前也有跟地方家長做一些討論，但目前還沒有進一步共識，我們會繼續努力。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:23.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:27.009000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以進一步去做共識的探討？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:27.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:28.511000+08:00","text":"因為老師的權益也很重要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:29.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:52.180000+08:00","text":"對，老師的權益非常重要，我們也看到他們的努力與付出，所以我們在6月9號跟縣市政府召開過第一次會議，但共識度還需要再凝聚，另外我們7月還會再開一次會，會在這個暑假前把縣市政府，甚至在地家長的意見都蒐整完備，之後再以大家更有共識的方式來處理……","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:52.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:54.100000+08:00","text":"有具體的時間表嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:54.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:56.225000+08:00","text":"7月會再開第二次。7月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:57.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:55:57.787000+08:00","text":"加速進行，拜託。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:55:59.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:56:17.926000+08:00","text":"接下來要跟兩位特別拜託我們非常重視的議題，不管是校事會議或校園霸凌，我覺得師對生、生對師的綜合相關案件都應該予以尊重，並公平處理。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:56:22.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:56:32.798000+08:00","text":"曾經有一位知名網紅貼出這樣一個個案：女老師被戳屁股，反被逼離職。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:56:33.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:56:58.244000+08:00","text":"可以看到裡面的內容有訪談5位同班學生，一致描述被行為人是惡意，對不起，是故意戳老師；訪談的5位同學中有3位聽到被行為人有先問旁邊同學要不要戳老師。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:56:58.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:57:15.993000+08:00","text":"綜上所述，調查小組認為，即使被行為人是故意戳行為人屁股，甚至是直接……這個我就不念了，身為老師還是不應有傷害學生的行為。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:57:15.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:57:24.857000+08:00","text":"對於這個案例，我覺得老師非常無奈，次長你怎麼看？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T10:57:28.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:57:48.071000+08:00","text":"因為這是113年的案子，所以是由宜蘭縣政府這邊處理，但是今（115）年1月我們修正了教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法後，如果校事會議的決議有不當的地方，主管機關可以退回學校重啟，針對委員……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:57:49.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:57:51.795000+08:00","text":"你有沒有覺得不當？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T10:57:51.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:57:53.357000+08:00","text":"這個部分因為……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:57:53.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:57:55.419000+08:00","text":"對於這個審議結果，你覺得合理嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T10:57:55.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:57:59.904000+08:00","text":"這部分要由主管機關再去做一些審酌跟重新……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:58:00.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:58:03.467000+08:00","text":"對於這個個案，你覺得應不應該重新再做評估？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T10:58:06.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:58:14.999000+08:00","text":"因為我沒有詳細去看這個個案、case，但以目前的這個部分來看，確實主管機關有再審酌的必要。","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:58:15.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:58:28.343000+08:00","text":"我想這個部分我們都要好好重視，剛剛有委員提到「鐵拳教育」，現在我們看到許多個案不斷被放在網路上供大家檢視，到底我們的校園怎麼了？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:58:31.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:58:41.520000+08:00","text":"我們不要只是看「鐵拳教育」這樣一個韓劇，我們來看各個國家有沒有發生類似的問題，他們怎麼解決？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:58:41.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:59:07.452000+08:00","text":"我想臺灣跟韓國都有一個非常高相似度的機制，就是家長投訴機制，當然我們要給家長投訴機制，但是你們有沒有了解這個機制是否失控、是否有失公允，或造成防禦性教學蔓延、教師心理健康惡化？","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:59:09.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:59:26.702000+08:00","text":"韓國網路資料顯示，9年內有一萬一千六百多名教師遭家長以虐童名義檢舉，最終引爆2023年教師自殺事件，促使立法回應。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:59:26.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T10:59:31.906000+08:00","text":"臺灣的狀況我想不用我多述，臺灣的狀況近期也非常相似。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T10:59:36.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:00:30.460000+08:00","text":"韓國2023年修法的主要核心內容，包括明文規定家長尊重教師教育指導的義務；賦予校長處理家長投訴的責任；教師正當生活指導，排除兒童福利法部分禁止行為的適用；教師遭虐童檢舉時，禁止無正當理由停職，但是教育監須立即、迅速表達意見；將家長惡意投訴、妨礙公務罪、誣告罪等納入侵害教育生活相關的活動行為；強化校長與教育監的應對機制，擴大受害教師保護跟復原支援。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:00:33.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:00:50.758000+08:00","text":"上次教師法三讀通過，將停聘又還他清白以後……會給他本俸加研究加給，但是我們看到其他的修法內容，有沒有什麼我們可以做的、我們可以參考的？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:00:51.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:00:53.009000+08:00","text":"對於韓國這個案例，您覺得呢？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:00:54.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:01:20.925000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指導，我們在113年針對教師管教的部分有一個注意事項，裡面已經有針對老師對於在教室發生一些不法或是破壞的行為，他是可以採取一些必要的手段，而且這些手段不會造成他因此受到處罰，有這樣阻卻的事由，這個部分的做法也跟韓國的方向是類似的。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:01:21.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:01:23.607000+08:00","text":"類似，但是那個看起來就是一個指引、提醒嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:01:24.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:01:28.910000+08:00","text":"有沒有辦法入法，甚至有沒有機會在未來能夠更加完善？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:01:29.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:01:34.733000+08:00","text":"我們是不是應該參考各個鄰近國家的做法來保護老師？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:01:37.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:05.893000+08:00","text":"在這段時間，我也不斷地在探尋很多家長團體也好，教師團體也好，我們不斷地了解他們的意見，其實我們也看到許多家長在反映，他們支持持續地修正，讓公平這個部分能夠繼續在校園當中真正地落實，所以他們並不是全然接受現階段的校事會議。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:08.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:15.521000+08:00","text":"因此，我要再次詢問，你們一直講你們在滾動式修正，有沒有具體的修正版本，還有公布期程？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:16.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:20.324000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在今年1月公布之後，我們說有半年的時間來蒐集……","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:20.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:20.525000+08:00","text":"我知道，這我都知道。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:21.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:27.129000+08:00","text":"我們在7月份的時候，會針對我們這半年以來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:27.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:27.530000+08:00","text":"有沒有具體的日期？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:27.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:30.772000+08:00","text":"大概7月幾號？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:30.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:35.015000+08:00","text":"我們在7月中以前會有一個分析檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:36.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:43.213000+08:00","text":"7月中，我是希望這個分析檢討真的要讓我們都知道，有沒有朝向更進一步怎麼樣的修正？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:43.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:54.115000+08:00","text":"比如說，現階段教師對於匿名檢舉的部分還是很有意見，匿名檢舉能不能夠有更公平的做法？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:54.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:56.577000+08:00","text":"這部分可以回應一下嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:56.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:02:57.118000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:02:58.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:08.206000+08:00","text":"誠如剛剛委員提點的，我們接下來也會針對剛剛提到的教師管教部分，會有一些更明確、是可以參考委員剛剛提示的……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:08.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:15.872000+08:00","text":"對啊，那是剛剛提示你說另外要參考的部分，但我說校事會議的部分，你們要朝向哪裡修正，可不可以跟大家先預告一下？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:17.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:19.720000+08:00","text":"匿名檢舉的部分，你們會修正嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:19.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:24.466000+08:00","text":"我們現在已經刪除，匿名檢舉是不受理的，也分流了。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:24.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:29.492000+08:00","text":"可是我聽到第一線教師團體的回饋，他們說還是實際有匿名檢舉的狀況喔！","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:29.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:35.338000+08:00","text":"所以是不是溝通上有誤解，還是你的政策並沒有寫得很完善？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:36.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:39.504000+08:00","text":"我們會跟地方政府蒐集相關成案的狀況，會來做分析。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:39.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:49.030000+08:00","text":"因為上次也有委員提到，小朋友在網路上教大家，如果看老師不爽，可以隨便檢舉他性平相關的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:49.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:03:56.134000+08:00","text":"可是這個部分的網路檢舉方式也還是有匿名的狀況，這個部分到底有沒有去修正？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:03:57.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:00.377000+08:00","text":"可不可以朝這個方向，7月的時候能夠有更具體的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:00.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:02.638000+08:00","text":"好，我們一併再拉到我們的檢討分析裡面來處理。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:03.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:22.739000+08:00","text":"我想針對老師身心健康的權益保障、家庭教育的加強、離線權更落實能夠有一個指引，甚至入法，行政減量能不能入法，針對這個部分，您的態度是如何？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:23.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:34.842000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在法規面，作用法基本上都是希望可以有些彈性來做調整，所以要不要入法這個事情我們可以來評估、研議，但是……","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:34.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:44.570000+08:00","text":"我希望你們要好好具體地去研議，是不是能夠隨著這一段時間，到7月15日的時候能夠有一個研議報告讓我們知道，好不好？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:44.570000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:45.570000+08:00","text":"好，可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:45.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:47.773000+08:00","text":"7月15日我們想知道你們的狀況，好不好？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:47.773000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T11:04:48.773000+08:00","text":"可以，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:04:48.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:01.807000+08:00","text":"另外，我想請問一下署長，這一次我們教育委員會到日本考察，我必須坦白講，你有幾個舉動讓我很感動。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:01.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:13.791000+08:00","text":"我看著你跟我們一起蹲在那邊近距離地接觸孩童，了解他們的教學過程，然後不斷地在做筆記。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:13.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:21.303000+08:00","text":"我在旁邊看覺得真的是非常動人，我也一直不斷地跟所有委員分享，其實你是蠻認真的。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:22.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:31.147000+08:00","text":"第二、剛好在享受校園營養午餐的時候，我跟你分配在同一組，我不知道你還記得嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:31.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:31.987000+08:00","text":"我就坐在你後面。對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:32.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:41.550000+08:00","text":"我看著你不斷地在透過翻譯軟體詢問孩子，除了營養午餐之外，你還記得你問一題嗎？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:41.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:44.842000+08:00","text":"你問上課時間、幾點上學……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:45.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:05:47.563000+08:00","text":"幾點上課、放學的時間幾點……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:05:47.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:06:06.350000+08:00","text":"透過訪談這些日本的孩子，了解教學環境的差異，其實我也都在觀察，因為你有別於立法委員的重要性，你是行政權的代表，從第一線去了解執行的狀況。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:06:07.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:06:20.709000+08:00","text":"我也想問你，就我所了解，日本營養午餐的政策及實際執行跟我們之前所接觸到的資料不太一樣，您覺得呢？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:06:21.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:07:00.757000+08:00","text":"我們看了兩種型態，一種是在一所小學，它是用傳統、我們聽得比較多的叫給食中心；另外，我們是到東京的一個特別區，它有23個特別區，是區裡的各校自己來供應，但不是給食中心，因為一般文獻比較少談到，所以以為日本絕大多數或比較多是給食中心，到實地之後發現還是有很多學校如同我們一樣也是自辦。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:07:00.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:07:29.176000+08:00","text":"接著，即便是給食中心，包括怎麼運作、相關編制也好、食安管理也好或是小朋友實際用餐的道數也好，以及小朋友實際在教室內的飲食教育也好，實際看了現場的情形之後跟我們從文獻所看到的會有一些相對照。最後……","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:07:32.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:07:33.360000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得有差距嘛？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:07:33.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:07:37.263000+08:00","text":"過往的資料跟現場的狀況有差距，對吧？是。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:07:37.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:07:55.821000+08:00","text":"即便現場看到的跟過往做個對照，也可以發現過往很多團體、縣市自己去，他們可能會從自己的角度去看，也許是縣市的角色，而我們去會看到縣市的角色、學校角色，以及甚至文部省的角色等等。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:07:56.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:08:02+08:00","text":"所以我覺得實際看到能夠更加了解執行狀況。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:08:02.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:08:09.712000+08:00","text":"另外，我們在看AI教育、ICT教育的時候，對於他們的師生比，你覺得呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:08:10.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:08:14.757000+08:00","text":"那天看到的是一個五年級班的數學教育……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:08:15.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:08:16.959000+08:00","text":"對，你分享給大家知道一下，好不好？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:08:17.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:08:22.364000+08:00","text":"我們也請教是全年級分組教學還是班內分組教學？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:08:23.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:08:28.610000+08:00","text":"經過現場的了解、釐清，是班內的三組分組教學。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:08:29.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:08:43.914000+08:00","text":"針對班內的分組教學，我們也跟他們探討教材怎麼樣配置、有沒有因應學生的個別化做不同的指導，像我們有AI的個別化指導等等，也做了一些現場的互動探討。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:08:45.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:09:11.847000+08:00","text":"次長，一個班將近20位分成三組，三組平均大概6到7個小朋友，6到7個小朋友面對2個老師，包括1個主要、1個輔導，還有1個大學的實習生來幫忙輔助、協助。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:09:13.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:09:18.072000+08:00","text":"看到這樣的師生比，我們也嚇一跳，幾乎是1比2、1比3。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:09:19.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:09:38.655000+08:00","text":"當然他們覺得適性教育、分級，能夠高強度的關心、對症下藥，甚至是因材施教，這些都是我們帶行政權、帶國教署署長去看可以有所加強的。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:09:39.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:09:47.841000+08:00","text":"至於能不能達到1比2、1比3，對我們來說有一段很大的差距，但是他們為什麼這麼的重視教育，我們就實際去看。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:09:49.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:10:10.488000+08:00","text":"我也希望包括不管是AI、ICT，我們看到第一線的狀況，我們也去拜訪了私校，剛剛那個不是私校，還有我們營養午餐的辦法，是不是有機會也要請你如實地跟不管是部長或次長來轉達？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:10:10.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:10:44.745000+08:00","text":"對比過往我們所看到的文獻，比如我之前看到的文獻其實基本上也都是疫情前的，有一段距離了，我們希望對於日本實際教學場域所遇到的狀況，能夠如實跟次長、部長來反映，尤其原本張廖萬堅次長要跟我們去，但是他因故有請假，這部分希望你能夠如實轉達，讓他們知道，我們在營養午餐的推進上，包括我們一直在講的營養師制度，日本的營養師是不是也跟我們不太一樣？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:10:47.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:10:56.664000+08:00","text":"原來我們認為日本可能有依法用550比1這一類，據現場了解，比例上倒還是有彈性。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:10:56.664000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T11:10:57.664000+08:00","text":"有點差距、彈性。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:10:57.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:11:12.638000+08:00","text":"但是可能召委想要講到的是營養教師這一塊，營養教師有雙證，因此他進行營養業務時，因為還有教師的license，因此他在營養教育上是有這個權力的。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:11:14.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:11:57.872000+08:00","text":"但營養教育不是營養師，它只是另外一個證書而已，有獲得營養教育工作權力的授與，也要多鼓勵小朋友他們吃家長無法提供的飲食內容，比如他們就很堅持希望能夠提供魚類，因為學生回到家不太會攝取魚類，他們為了提供魚類就會有魚刺的問題，他們還特別教國小低年級小朋友要如何食用秋刀魚，並拍攝影片教學，所以這個部分都是我們在教學環境上、在做食農教育也好、在做飲食禮儀的介紹也好，這都是值得我們參考的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:11:58.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:12:11.419000+08:00","text":"當下我也跟署長講，署長，這部分我也希望你在現場能夠承諾我，我們不斷在講說，在食用營養午餐之前，可不可以做一個簡單的飲食教育？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:12:11.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:12:42.681000+08:00","text":"我們今天攝取多少蛋白、今天所吃的營養午餐，它的故事、它的原產地在哪裡，能夠做基本的廣播分享或者是同學上臺1分鐘講一下再用餐，讓孩子知道他平常吃的東西的內容，學生也會回到家裡跟家長分享，家長也會安心營養午餐的內容，他會大概知道，這個不用花到預算，我們可不可以做？署長。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:12:44.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:12:58.261000+08:00","text":"因為委員講了之後，我們也去思考它運作的可行性，這會涉及到22個縣市跟9萬個班，我們再看看怎麼樣可以讓老師在行政不必加量……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:12:58.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:00.302000+08:00","text":"這個我要強調，不要找老師。對、對。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:01.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:06.025000+08:00","text":"我們看到日本的狀況，他們是有廣播，你一聽廣播的聲音也知道是小朋友。對。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:06.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:36.788000+08:00","text":"再來，還有一個部分，可能是班長或者是體育股長，由他們的小朋友上臺分享，這也是訓練講話的機會，當然最直接的也可以請所謂的外膳業者錄音廣播內容來播放，這個也都不用去麻煩老師，所以我覺得沒有人力的問題，也沒有所謂預算的問題，我們看如何落實，所以在這一次我們看到日本實際操作的狀況，我也希望我們要有所改變，可以嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:38.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:50.575000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們現在整理報告中，會讓委員知道，有一些經過探訪及詳細了解之後的改變，當然也一定會跟部長、次長做完整的說明。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:50.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:52.796000+08:00","text":"一個月內給我相關資料可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:52.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:53.556000+08:00","text":"沒有問題。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:53.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:53.776000+08:00","text":"一個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:54.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:13:54.897000+08:00","text":"是，沒有問題。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-11T11:13:54.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T11:14:02.620000+08:00","text":"因為羅智強委員也有參加，我覺得大家都感覺非常有意義，也希望實際帶回來，我們有所改變，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"主席（羅委員廷瑋）","start":"2026-06-11T11:14:03.120000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T11:14:07.120000+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們下一位有請羅智強委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}