{"error":false,"id":["169970"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169970,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169970","日期":"2026-06-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-11T12:28:21+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-11T12:36:50+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5a3f69ccecb4f85e2e8abbe84d3cb115fb40f357bf30cd036236c77fa8ed8f5913912a9c72435c4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"12:28:21 - 12:36:50","會議時間":"2026-06-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一) 委員柯志恩等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員柯志恩等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一) 委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 國民黨黨團擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員羅明才等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員葛如鈞等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八) 委員羅智強等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(九) 委員賴士葆等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十) 委員林倩綺等23人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一) 委員葉元之等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四) 委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五) 委員張雅琳等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六) 委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十七) 委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查\n(一) 委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案\n四、審查\n(一) 委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員葉元之等18人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n……(因系統字數上限，詳參議事日程)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.17346875,"end":8.232218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.62034375,"end":8.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":8.67096875,"end":8.704718750000001,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.704718750000001,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":8.755343750000002,"end":9.36284375,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.36284375,"end":9.379718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.805343750000002,"end":17.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":21.563468750000002,"end":22.52534375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":24.44909375,"end":25.42784375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":25.84971875,"end":27.149093750000002,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":27.85784375,"end":70.63596875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":71.07471875,"end":73.08284375000001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":73.25159375,"end":78.28034375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":78.88784375,"end":81.58784375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":82.87034375,"end":94.96971875000001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":94.71659375,"end":94.93596875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":94.96971875000001,"end":95.00346875000001,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":95.00346875000001,"end":95.22284375000001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":95.22284375000001,"end":95.25659375000001,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":95.25659375000001,"end":96.38721875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":96.69096875000001,"end":135.63846875000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":129.78284375,"end":134.99721875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":135.79034375,"end":152.85096875000002,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":153.47534375,"end":154.69034375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":155.73659375,"end":161.37284375000002,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":159.87096875,"end":159.88784375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":159.88784375,"end":160.22534375,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":160.22534375,"end":160.24221875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":161.60909375,"end":161.62596875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":161.62596875,"end":182.77034375000002,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":162.67221875,"end":163.34721875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":183.22596875000002,"end":198.05909375000002,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":197.82284375,"end":221.04284375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":221.88659375,"end":245.19096875000002,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":234.34034375000002,"end":235.13346875000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":236.02784375000002,"end":236.61846875,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":245.19096875000002,"end":268.19159375000004,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":245.20784375000002,"end":245.44409375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":248.93721875000003,"end":249.34221875000003,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.05034375000002,"end":254.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":254.97846875000002,"end":255.01221875000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":263.71971875,"end":264.32721875000004,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":268.22534375000004,"end":301.21596875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":272.84909375,"end":272.88284375,"speaker_score":0.909},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":301.51971875000004,"end":301.99221875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","st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我們有請朱副次有請次長這集抱歉 我可能要請國教署署長一起有請署長 謝謝"},{"start":24.48,"end":52.646,"text":"好 我想昨天這個中小學校長協會有發布新聞稿提到說教育現場有老師在教學或輔導的過程之中被學生咬傷 抓傷 撞傷甚至是有牙齒斷裂那我自己也有遇過處理過的相關的案件是老師可能甚至有被打這樣子的一個案件然後瘀青等等的那最後老師通常就是礙於教育人員的身分跟職責他最後就不選擇不提 不會不報然後也不提告 然後就息事寧人"},{"start":53.986,"end":79.652,"text":"所以這個協會他們也做了一些調查就發現這兩年來教育人員因為在教學或輔管期間受到攻擊的事件其實是不少10次以上就有17筆這是90個學校的回覆其中10次以上有17筆普通班的老師有50所從這張表我想你就可以非常清楚的看見到我們教學現場老師們承受的是什麼樣子的一個狀態什麼樣子的一個壓力"},{"start":82.932,"end":96.212,"text":"所以我想要了解就是說教育部現在有沒有去掌握我們全國教育人員因學生攻擊而受傷的統計有沒有分職務分事件分受傷的程度來做一個盤點呢有沒有"},{"start":97.31,"end":114.407,"text":"好 謝謝委員指導確實在目前我們學校大家都有校安通報不管是師對生或生對師都有那這部分我們可以來做一些更細緻的分類來跟委員報告調查情形那其次針對於老師在職場"},{"start":116.389,"end":125.018,"text":"受到的一些不法侵害雖然現在早上其實媒體朋友在問我在治安法雖然已經有一些規範可是我們也會跟書長討論可能我們需要針對於學校這個場域針對老師的這種安全指導應該要帶來一個更積極的作為是 是 是這我們會來做"},{"start":136.148,"end":153.822,"text":"那因為其實啊剛剛你提到校安通報那最近也是台北市有個小學仁愛國小的事件也是沸沸揚揚那據我所知家長會是告訴我說他們去跟台北市教育局要詢問的時候呢教育局是說校安通報的統計呢會先到不才會再轉告給他們"},{"start":155.799,"end":183.774,"text":"那這是事實嗎?因為據我所知應該是同步進行吧對吧?這個是不是可以請次長再釐清一下?嗯,好何秀蘇長謝謝委員那這個案子我們部裡面,包含署裡面也非常的關切那它其實其實已經有涉及到一些危險的動作對,沒錯那我們會要求台北市在七天內把過往它有通報過十次那是不是同一個個案、同一個行為等等以前通報"},{"start":185.254,"end":209.446,"text":"這一次處理情形調查結果以及未來如何預防甚至我們部內如何用校安通報上類似情形也有所檢討大概這兩層次都會做檢視我想這個部分其實我是想要強調一個重點就是說當學校我們這個校安通報流程應該行之有年了對不對學校該怎麼進行通報教育局各地縣市政府應該如何協助學校啟動應變小組"},{"start":211.887,"end":231.357,"text":"以及後續的三級處遇這應該都是地方縣市政府應該要來協助的部分可是學校告訴我的是會長告訴我的是台北市必須要等到教育部轉資這個校安通報我想這個可能就不是符合過去行之有年所以這部分要再麻煩國教署"},{"start":231.937,"end":253.739,"text":"积极的来督导 因为这的确现场来说我要先讲一下就是说我们要照顾这个我们要照顾现场的学生 也要保护老师那这个孩子也要立刻的进行三级处育啦好不好我要补充一点 我们刚才讲的我们可能要厘清一下为什么这一位的同仁啊家长等等会有这样的一个说法"},{"start":254.119,"end":272.339,"text":"是因為教育局跟他說的那地方政府在作為主管機關他早就已經在處理了所以不帶什麼通報後教育部要有什麼合訂或是轉職這個是歷來本來就依法在處置的作為謝謝對 這個是教育局給他的回覆啦所以他來告訴我這個問題啦所以我只是希望你們來"},{"start":273.32,"end":300.933,"text":"來瞭解一下那再來一個部分就是說因為其實協會也有講到就是說是不是可以針對學校部分因為我們現在這個補償金慰問金基本上是公教一體可是對他們來說其實是非常困難因為其實公務人員不會面對到這麼多的可能現場的在做攻擊或傷害等等的所以是不是可以針對這個慰問金辦法把公務人員跟教育人員來脫鉤建立這個教育人員專屬的慰問補償跟支持制度呢"},{"start":302.033,"end":320.189,"text":"因為這個部分還會涉及到跟全序部的選擇我們會很重視這樣的建議我們跟全序部討論因為這是完全不一樣的狀態再來一個問題就是說疑似生這個其實我一直在追就是說台北市的疑似生的比例比其他的縣市人數比例都來得高"},{"start":321.37,"end":339.169,"text":"那台北市政府的回复给我们的回复是说因为台北市的疑似生人数比较高主要是因为孩子卡在幼儿园大班生国小一年级这个阶段有些孩子在幼儿园时被鉴定发展迟缓到了要升小学重新建立的时候还看不出到底属于哪一种障别"},{"start":339.75,"end":358.336,"text":"所以呢他為了不要讓孩子因為還沒有確定類別就失去特教資源所以會讓他們再先接受特教之詞一年之後再重新鑑定那後來呢我們再發現這些資料大概有六成都會被鑑定為特殊教育學生那我想要釐清一個重點就是說這個邏輯上面我覺得有"},{"start":359.136,"end":381.398,"text":"荒謬的地方就是說他會給他特教生的支持那我想問特教生的支持是等於是說我們有給他IEP嗎我們有因為這樣子的人數去縮減班級的人數嗎我們有提供我們有增加特教老師嗎如果都沒有的話那個支持到底是什麼只是讓現場更混亂"},{"start":384.635,"end":411.722,"text":"剛剛委員所問的他是疑似生跟非疑似生那有三個重點剛來的槌尋我們會問這個縣市因為每個縣市在特定的他們的資源或相關的認定上以及剛剛委員講在跨級的時候有這樣的一個顧慮也有他們的考慮但是剛剛委員的三問我們會來就較相關的縣市政府也在七天內會跟委員回報"},{"start":412.202,"end":429.347,"text":"好 因為我想這個我自己看我覺得可能存在三個問題鑑定的速度不夠快跨階段的銜接也不夠細緻特教人力也沒有跟著學生的實際需求來去做增加所以這個部分的話請你們來了解一下這到底是做得好還是做得不好因為我想不管是普特融合一般"},{"start":429.947,"end":446.362,"text":"一般生的孩子要好好被照顾特教生的孩子的需求也要被好好照顾没有一个孩子应该要被这样子失去了自己的受教权那最后一个问题就是再讲普特融合的现场我们这个普特融合的现场其实我们都非常清楚的知道我们少子华"},{"start":447.023,"end":465.681,"text":"但是我们的特教生的比例其实是越来越高我们安置率高不代表融合教育是成功的所以呢我希望就是说我们现在呢的确是给特教生有一些些特殊的IEP啊什么的但是我希望我们在计算特教老师的人力需求的时候呢"},{"start":466.602,"end":486.277,"text":"不能够只有看这个学生数的师生笔等等的我们还要去来掌握到底他们平均负责多少学生有多少IEP要做有多少鉴定评估有多少情绪行为个案我觉得这些都要非常仔细的来讲因为他们有时候还要协助普通班"},{"start":487.518,"end":505.68,"text":"所以这些东西我认为我们应该要来积极的掌握我们才能够去确保说我们的普特融合怎么样可以真正的做到普特融合而不是彼此忍耐好吗可以吗这些资料是不是什么时候也可以提供给我我们是不是一个月后提供给委员参考好谢谢好下一位"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:28:27.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:28:28.868000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們有請朱次。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-11T12:28:29.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:28:34.633000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T12:28:34.633000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T12:28:35.633000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:28:34.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:28:38.016000+08:00","text":"抱歉，這一題可能要請國教署署長一起。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-11T12:28:42.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:28:42.861000+08:00","text":"請署長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:28:46.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:29:13.626000+08:00","text":"昨天中小學校長協會有發布新聞稿，提到教育現場有老師在教學或輔導的過程中被學生咬傷、抓傷、撞傷，甚至有牙齒斷裂，我們自己也有遇過、處理過相關的案件，並且老師可能被打、瘀青等等這樣子的案件，但最後老師通常就是礙於教育人員的身分跟職責選擇不報，然後也不提告、息事寧人。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:29:14.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:29:40.632000+08:00","text":"所以協會也做了一些調查，發現這兩年來教育人員因為在教學或輔管期間受到攻擊的事件其實不少，在90個學校的回復中，10次以上就有17筆，而普通班的老師則有50所，從這張表我想你就可以非常清楚地看見教學現場是什麼樣的狀態，老師們承受什麼樣子的壓力。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:29:43.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:29:49.821000+08:00","text":"所以我想要了解，教育部現在有沒有掌握我們全國教育人員因學生攻擊而受傷的統計？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:29:49.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:29:55.550000+08:00","text":"有沒有分職務、分事件、分受傷的程度來做一個盤點呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T12:29:58.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:30:00.612000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指導。","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T12:30:00.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:30:14.026000+08:00","text":"確實目前學校都有校安通報，不管是師對生或生對師，都有，這部分我們可以做一些更細緻的分類來跟委員報告調查的情形。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T12:30:14.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:30:25.817000+08:00","text":"其次，針對老師在職場受到一些不法侵害，早上其實媒體朋友也在問我，在職安法雖然已經有一些規範，可是我們也會跟署長討論，我們可能需要針對學校這個場域、老師的各種安全指導，應該再有更積極的作為。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:30:25.817000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T12:30:26.817000+08:00","text":"對，因為他們希望公職人員跟教務人員其實是要分開的。是！","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T12:30:25.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:30:25.998000+08:00","text":"這我們會來做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:30:38.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:30:54.822000+08:00","text":"好，剛剛你提到校安通報，最近臺北市有個仁愛國小的事件也是沸沸揚揚，家長會也是告訴我，當他們去跟臺北市政府教育局詢問的時候，教育局是說：校安通報的統計會先到部，才會再轉告給他們。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:30:57.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:30:57.720000+08:00","text":"這是事實嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:30:57.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:31:00.301000+08:00","text":"因為據我所知，應該是同步進行，對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:31:00.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:31:05.203000+08:00","text":"這個是不是可以請次長再釐清一下，還是署長？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T12:31:05.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:31:13.728000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，這個案子我們部裡面包含署裡面也非常地關切，他其實已經有涉及到一些危險的動作。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:31:13.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:31:14.608000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T12:31:14.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:31:39.040000+08:00","text":"我們會要求臺北市政府在七天內，把過往有通報過10次是不是同一個個案、同一個行為等等，以前通報跟這一次的處理情形、調查結果以及未來如何預防，甚至我們部內如何運用校安通報像類似的情形也來有所檢討，大概這兩層次都會做檢視。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:31:39.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:31:46.044000+08:00","text":"好，這個部分其實我是想要強調一個重點，我們這個校安通報流程應該行之有年了，對不對？是。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:31:46.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:13.237000+08:00","text":"學校該怎麼通報教育局，各地縣市政府應該如何協助學校啟動應變小組，以及後續的三級處遇，這應該都是地方縣市政府要來協助的部分，可是會長告訴我的是，臺北市必須要等到教育部轉知校安通報，我想這個可能就不是符合過去行之有年的，所以這部分要再麻煩國教署積極地來督導，因為這的確現場來說……不過……","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:16.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:16.901000+08:00","text":"我要先講一下。是。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:17.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:25.269000+08:00","text":"就是我們要照顧現場的學生，也要保護老師，這個孩子也要立刻進行三級處遇，好不好？","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:25.269000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:26.269000+08:00","text":"這是我的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:26.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:34.719000+08:00","text":"抱歉，我要補充一點，委員剛剛講的我們可能要釐清一下，為什麼這一位同仁、家長等等會有這樣的一個說法？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:35.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:36.381000+08:00","text":"是因為教育局跟他說的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:37.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:45.991000+08:00","text":"不是這樣的，地方政府作為主管機關，它早就已經在處理了，不是待什麼通報後，教育部要有所什麼核定或是轉知。沒錯。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:45.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:49.775000+08:00","text":"這個是本來就依法在處置的作為，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:49.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:32:54.740000+08:00","text":"對，這個是教育局給他的回復，他來告訴我有這個問題，所以我希望你們來了解一下。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:32:55.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:33:21.913000+08:00","text":"再來一個部分，其實協會也有講到是不是可以針對學校部分，因為我們現在這個補償金、慰問金基本上是公教一體，可是對他們來說其實是非常困難，因為公務人員不會面對這麼多可能現場的攻擊或傷害等等，所以是不是可以針對慰問金辦法把公務人員跟教育人員來脫鉤，建立教育人員專屬的慰問、補償跟支持制度呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:33:21.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T12:33:23.033000+08:00","text":"次長您的看法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T12:33:23.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:33:29.639000+08:00","text":"因為這個部分還會涉及到跟銓敘部的權責，我們會很重視這樣的建議，我們會跟銓敘部討論，謝謝。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:33:29.639000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T12:33:30.639000+08:00","text":"再跟銓敘部來討論，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:33:29.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:33:31.901000+08:00","text":"因為這是完全不一樣的狀態。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:33:31.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:34:10.013000+08:00","text":"再來一個問題，就是疑似生，這個其實我一直在追啦，臺北市疑似生人數的比例比其他縣市的比例都來得高，臺北市政府給我們的回復是說：因為臺北市疑似生人數比較高，主要是因為孩子卡在幼兒園大班升國小一年級這個階段，有些孩子在幼兒園時被鑑定發展遲緩，到了要升小學重新鑑定的時候，還看不出到底屬於哪一種障別，而為了不要讓孩子因為還沒有確定類別就失去特教資源，所以會讓他們先接受特教支持，一年之後再重新鑑定。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:34:10.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:34:31.107000+08:00","text":"後來我們再發現，這些資料大概有六成都會被鑑定為特殊教育學生，我想要釐清一個重點，這個邏輯上面我覺得有荒謬的地方，就是會給他特教生的支持，我想問特教生的支持是等於我們有給他IEP嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:34:31.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:34:36.432000+08:00","text":"我們有因為這樣子的人數而去縮減普通班級的人數嗎？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:34:37.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:34:38.595000+08:00","text":"我們有增加特教老師嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:34:38.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:34:41.417000+08:00","text":"如果都沒有的話，那個支持到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:34:41.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:34:42.398000+08:00","text":"只是讓現場更混亂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-11T12:34:45.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:35:12.722000+08:00","text":"關於剛剛委員所垂詢的疑似生跟非疑似生有三個重點，我們會問這個縣市，因為每個縣市在資源或相關的認定上，以及剛剛委員講到在跨級的時候有這樣的顧慮，的確也有他們的考慮，但是針對剛剛委員的三問，我們會來就教相關縣市政府，也在七天內跟委員回報。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:35:13.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:35:23.145000+08:00","text":"好，因為我自己看可能存在三個問題，鑑定的速度不夠快，跨階段的銜接也不夠細緻，特教人力也沒有跟著實際需求去做增加。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:35:23.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:35:28.306000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分請你們來了解一下，到底是做得好，還是做得不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:35:28.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:35:39.595000+08:00","text":"我想不管是普特融合，一般生孩子要好好被照顧，特教生孩子的需求也要被好好照顧，沒有一個孩子應該被這樣的情形而失去自己的受教權。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:35:40.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:16.789000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，在普特融合的現場，其實我們都非常清楚的知道我們少子化，但是我們特教生的比例是越來越高，我們安置率高，不代表融合教育是成功的，我們現在的確是給特教生有一些些特殊IEP什麼的，但是我希望我們在計算特教老師人力需求的時候，不能夠只看學生數的師生比等等，我們還要去掌握他們到底平均負責多少學生？","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:17.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:18.870000+08:00","text":"有多少IEP要做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:19.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:20.712000+08:00","text":"有多少鑑定、評估？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:20.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:22.233000+08:00","text":"有多少情緒行為個案？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:22.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:39.852000+08:00","text":"我覺得這些都要非常仔細的來看，因為他們有時候還要協助普通班，所以我認為我們應該要積極地掌握這些東西，才能夠去確保我們的普特融合可以真正地做到普特融合，而不是彼此忍耐，好嗎？","quality":0.662},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:40.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:40.332000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:40.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:42.375000+08:00","text":"這些資料什麼時候也可以提供給我？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:43.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:45.258000+08:00","text":"好，我們是不是1個月後提供給委員參考？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:45.258000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:46.359000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-11T12:36:46.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-11T12:36:46.660000+08:00","text":"好，下一位林倩綺委員。","quality":0.444}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}