{"error":false,"id":["169983"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169983,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169983","日期":"2026-06-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-15T09:52:16+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-15T09:58:30+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:14","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/66bc201768d4deab0d7da2c51b8a9764aa88dbdebdab583a4e0d65605b5dae34c8e9d6e5b85468935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"09:52:16 - 09:58:30","會議時間":"2026-06-15T09:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查「所得稅法」28案：（僅詢答）\n一、本院委員賴士葆等23人、委員柯志恩等19人、委員李彥秀等16人分別擬具「所得稅法第十四條及第十七條條文修正草案」等3案。\n二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團、委員郭國文等16人、委員陳菁徽等17人、委員羅明才等18人、委員張智倫等18人、委員徐巧芯等18人、委員王義川等19人、委員陳菁徽等23人、委員王鴻薇等17人、委員羅廷瑋等23人、委員顏寬恒等18人、委員王正旭等18人、委員謝龍介等16人、委員廖偉翔等16人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員許宇甄等19人、委員翁曉玲等28人、委員林倩綺等20人、委員邱鎮軍等17人、委員洪孟楷等21人、委員羅智強等16人、委員賴士葆等25人、委員郭國文等19人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」等24案。【後2案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n三、本院委員蔡春綢等18人擬具「所得稅法第十七條及第一百二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【6月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":0.03096875,"end":0.40221875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":5.90346875,"end":7.59096875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":7.709093750000001,"end":8.02971875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":8.02971875,"end":8.485343750000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":8.485343750000002,"end":8.50221875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":13.902218750000003,"end":15.404093750000001,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":16.16346875,"end":17.09159375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":17.496593750000002,"end":20.53409375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":21.10784375,"end":22.01909375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":22.49159375,"end":23.84159375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":24.38159375,"end":26.60909375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":27.149093750000002,"end":28.39784375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":29.34284375,"end":30.60846875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":30.97971875,"end":34.16909375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":35.53596875,"end":41.189093750000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"宋署長秀玲","start":42.30284375,"end":50.01471875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":48.782843750000005,"end":63.04221875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"宋署長秀玲","start":58.63784375,"end":58.85721875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"宋署長秀玲","start":62.822843750000004,"end":71.68221875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":67.51409375,"end":68.13846875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":70.11284375000001,"end":71.86784375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"宋署長秀玲","start":71.86784375,"end":72.23909375000001,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":72.88034375000001,"end":81.09846875000001,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":81.33471875000001,"end":81.85784375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":83.66346875,"end":84.91221875000001,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":85.40159375,"end":88.42221875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"宋署長秀玲","start":88.52346875,"end":89.60346875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":89.60346875,"end":109.22909375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"宋署長秀玲","start":104.04846875000001,"end":104.75721875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":109.54971875000001,"end":118.47659375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":118.72971875,"end":121.42971875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":121.75034375000001,"end":122.37471875000001,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":122.67846875000001,"end":131.03159375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":131.33534375000002,"end":133.84971875000002,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":134.57534375,"end":146.69159375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":147.16409375,"end":153.74534375000002,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":155.07846875,"end":157.01909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":157.25534375,"end":157.67721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":157.71096875,"end":175.21034375000002,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":175.76721875,"end":177.08346875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":178.26471875000001,"end":180.01971875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":180.32346875000002,"end":182.73659375000003,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":183.05721875,"end":185.01471875000001,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":185.97659375,"end":186.78659375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":187.64721875,"end":189.38534375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":189.77346875,"end":192.76034375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":193.11471875,"end":194.44784375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":194.88659375,"end":199.84784375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":200.37096875,"end":216.57096875000002,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":218.08971875,"end":263.78721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":264.42846875000004,"end":268.09034375000005,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":268.64721875000004,"end":279.73409375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":280.35846875000004,"end":282.72096875,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":282.97409375,"end":286.43346875000003,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":287.00721875,"end":315.30659375000005,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":315.88034375,"end":316.99409375000005,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":318.85034375000004,"end":322.22534375000004,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":322.54596875000004,"end":338.86409375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":339.15096875,"end":344.90534375000004,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":345.37784375,"end":349.42784375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":350.65971875,"end":361.47659375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":362.82659375000003,"end":374.23409375,"speaker_score":0.933},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":371.23034375000003,"end":374.99346875000003,"speaker_score":0.959}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.951,"end":26.067,"text":"主席 麻煩請財政部莊部長莊部長喔委員好 部長早之前我們通過了娛樂稅法的降稅的這個法案那現在開始實施了現在前面幾項這個娛樂稅法"},{"start":29.403,"end":40.813,"text":"取消那幾項啊到底有沒有回饋消費者這方面你有沒有進行了解我們是有發言請各地方政府必須要回饋那後續的回應那個署長知道嗎"},{"start":42.489,"end":69.087,"text":"報告委員因為委員關切之後啊我們有新聞給地方政府還有包含相關的部會不是只有新聞你新聞給他辦一個公文就這麼簡單到底譬如說現在各個地方的辦了演唱會各個地方什麼表演到底這個票價有沒有降低你不能夠做實體的了解嗎我們會適時的請他們回報因為究竟還是需要一個統計的時間目前還沒有都還沒有地方政府回報"},{"start":72.95,"end":80.768,"text":"所以你這個就是等於是空白就是說發個公文有啦我有通知他們各個地方政府這個減稅的利益要歸消費者來"},{"start":84.277,"end":108.845,"text":"來享受就發一個文然後說就沒有了這樣子不行啦是了解好不好拜託這個因為我們在這個地方減稅的目的除了要繁榮地方要讓地方能夠更更方便營火之外另外一個重點就是要這個讓消費者得到回饋啊所以這部分拜託你繼續追好不好是好再來請教因為大法公會大法"},{"start":109.865,"end":132.712,"text":"憲法法庭解釋這個遺證稅有一部分是違憲所以現在也是要提修正案這裡面一個最基本的精神就是誰拿到錢誰繳稅對不對以前你問你們人家擬製說被繼承人死亡前兩年之前所送出去的財產這個也要算回到遺產稅的"},{"start":134.942,"end":152.388,"text":"總體的計算範圍然後又把遺產稅是以被繼承人的總額來計算所以導致有人可能根本就沒有拿到任何的遺產然後卻是大額的沒有去辦拋棄繼承結果他的稅務是在他的身上是因為這一點違憲嘛對不對"},{"start":157.826,"end":164.512,"text":"所以我之前有跟你提過釜底抽薪就是誰拿到遺產稅誰繳稅誰拿到遺產誰繳稅如果是這樣的話就不是用遺產總額計算就是以繼承人繼承到的遺產作為單位來計算遺產稅的範圍過去因為"},{"start":178.288,"end":182.018,"text":"你們為了積增的方便以被繼承人的遺產總額來統計然後這個在稅率的"},{"start":187.711,"end":216.364,"text":"累計上面也對這個國家採取收稅的角度會比較有利那現在大法官的本意是在這個地方這樣子的改變有沒有可能可以真的改到變成誰拿到遺產誰繳稅在稅法上其他的稅幾乎都是這樣啊誰拿到錢然後誰繳稅啊那只有遺產稅過去的計算不是這樣那麼趁這一次的這一個修正可不可以連這個一併來修正啊"},{"start":218.137,"end":232.165,"text":"因為我國的遺產稅是採取總遺產稅制也就是全部的遺產然後扣掉相關的免稅額以及扣除以後來按稅率來課那當大法官之後是因為有生前證語以及讓他這個又拋棄繼承以至於沒有辦法"},{"start":236.005,"end":247.77,"text":"讓他這個部分去負擔相關的稅負所以做了這個有關判決那我們也這是修法那至於要用分遺產的方式來課稅或這種總遺產稅制我覺得這個部分是不是會涉及到私人之間他們在遺產分割時候的分配時間的長短會影響到整個稅制不只是計算而是你整個核課期間也都會受到很大的影響因為這涉及到私權之間的一些他們之間的協議分配的問題"},{"start":264.488,"end":279.024,"text":"我覺得你為了這一點點小小的理由而且這個是可以克服的結果你現在採的這個不採這個大法官這個憲法法庭的這個核心精神其實憲法法庭告訴你就是很清楚的一個精神誰拿到錢"},{"start":281.021,"end":297.729,"text":"誰獲利誰繳稅那如果不能夠做到這一點的話制度改來改去將來都還會出現類似的漏洞又申請憲法法庭又被寫字為違憲又被判為違憲所以我是跟你說你說因為我是採總額制度"},{"start":300.171,"end":314.97,"text":"總額 被繼承人的遺產的總額我如果繼承不到 那個總額對我沒有意義啊結果稅我要負擔 這樣沒有道理啊你看看你中華民國集團的稅有哪一樣稅是你沒有拿到錢 然後你要繳稅的幾乎都沒有耶"},{"start":318.925,"end":344.606,"text":"所以這個我覺得真正的核心的精神是在這個地方我覺得你們真的可以好好的思考喔如果你要徹底的改變其他國家也有先進的國家例子啊你如果這個講法是對的話那日本人的遺產繼承為什麼他們是用繼承到多少財產然後才繳多少遺產稅呢日本也有遺產稅啊那日本也是跟我們一樣私有的民保的車也是所有財產權的保障啊"},{"start":345.427,"end":361.315,"text":"那日本做得到為什麼我們台灣做不到你們是因為剋稅方便啦真的啦我沒有騙你啦我們就法論法你們是因為剋稅方便好好的思考好不好我覺得這個是憲法法庭的核心精神其實只有一句話誰拿到錢誰繳稅這個是你要想要這件事情這件事情而且這個是稅法上面的基本原理啊本來就是誰拿到錢誰繳稅嘛好不好思考看看啦好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:21.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:52:23.992000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請財政部莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:23.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:52:24.133000+08:00","text":"請莊部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:29.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:52:30.237000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:30.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:52:30.838000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:32.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:52:49.867000+08:00","text":"之前我們通過了娛樂稅法降稅的法案，現在開始實施了，娛樂稅法取消的那幾項到底有沒有回饋消費者，這一方面你有沒有進行了解？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:51.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:52:55.893000+08:00","text":"我們有發函請各地方政府必須要回饋，後續的回應請署長回答。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:56.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:52:56.813000+08:00","text":"署長知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2026-06-15T09:52:58.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:04.373000+08:00","text":"報告委員，委員關切之後，我們有行文給地方政府，還有包含相關的部會，請他們……","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:04.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:18.903000+08:00","text":"不是只有行文，你行文給他、辦一個公文，這麼簡單，譬如說現在各個地方辦演唱會、各個地方的表演，到底票價有沒有降低，你們不能實際了解嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:18.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:23.025000+08:00","text":"我們會適時請他們回報，因為還是需要統計時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:23.025000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:24.025000+08:00","text":"有回報嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:23.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:23.766000+08:00","text":"目前還沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:23.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:32.879000+08:00","text":"都還沒有地方政府回報？對。有啦！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡：所以你這就等於是空白，就是發個公文說","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:33.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:40.597000+08:00","text":"我有通知各個地方政府減稅的利益要歸消費者來享受。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡：所以你這就等於是空白，就是發個公文說","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:41.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:43.818000+08:00","text":"發一個文，然後就沒有了，這樣子不行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:44.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:53:45.279000+08:00","text":"是，了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:53:46.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:54:00.203000+08:00","text":"這個拜託，因為我們在這個地方減稅的目的，除了要繁榮地方，要讓地方能夠更方便靈活之外，另外一個重點就是要讓消費者得到回饋，所以這部分拜託你繼續追，好不好？是。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:54:01.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:54:17.928000+08:00","text":"再來請教，因為憲法法庭解釋遺贈稅有一部分違憲，所以現在也要提修正案，這裡面一個最基本的精神就是誰拿到錢，誰繳稅。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:54:18.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:54:48.388000+08:00","text":"以前因為你們擬制說，被繼承人死亡前兩年之間所送出去的財產，也要回到遺產稅總體的計算範圍內，遺產稅又是以被繼承人的遺產總額來計算，導致有人可能根本就沒有拿到任何遺產，但因為沒有去辦拋棄繼承，結果稅務在他的身上，是因為這一點違憲，對不對？是的。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:54:53.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:55:00.372000+08:00","text":"所以我之前有跟你提過釜底抽薪，就是誰拿到遺產，誰繳稅，如果是這樣的話，就不是用遺產總額計算，就是以繼承人繼承到的遺產為單位來計算遺產稅的範圍。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:55:00.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:55:32.055000+08:00","text":"過去你們為了稽徵的方便，以被繼承人的遺產總額來統計，在稅率的累進上面，也是對國家收稅比較有利的角度，現在大法官的本意是在這個地方。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:55:32.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:55:39.758000+08:00","text":"這樣子的改變有沒有可能可以真的改變成誰拿到遺產，誰繳稅？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:55:39.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:55:44.941000+08:00","text":"在稅法上，其他的稅幾乎都是這樣，誰拿到錢，就是誰繳稅啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:55:45.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:55:48.482000+08:00","text":"只有遺產稅過去的計算不是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:55:49.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:55:52.244000+08:00","text":"我們趁這一次的修正，可不可以連這個一併修正？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T09:55:54.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:56:04.343000+08:00","text":"因為我國的遺產稅是採取總遺產稅制，也就是全部的遺產扣掉相關的免稅額以及扣除額以後，按稅率課徵。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T09:56:04.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:56:17.227000+08:00","text":"大法官的解釋是因為有生前贈予，以及他又拋棄繼承，以至於沒有辦法讓他去負擔相關的稅負，所以做了相關判決，所以我們也將正式修法。","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T09:56:18.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:56:23.770000+08:00","text":"至於要用分遺產的方式來課稅或是用總遺產稅制，我覺得這個部分會涉及到私人之間在遺產分割時的分配時間長短，會影響到整個稅制，不只是計算，而是整個核課期間也都會受到很大的影響，因為這涉及到私權之間一些協議分配的問題。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:56:40.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:56:59.122000+08:00","text":"我覺得你為了這一點點小小的理由……而且這個是可以克服的，結果你現在不採憲法法庭的核心精神，其實憲法法庭告訴你的就是一個很清楚的精神，誰拿到錢，誰獲利，誰繳稅。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:56:59.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:57:10.708000+08:00","text":"如果不能夠做到這一點的話，制度改來改去，將來都還會出現類似的漏洞，又聲請憲法法庭，又被視為違憲、又被判違憲。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:57:12.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:57:30.670000+08:00","text":"你說因為我們是採總額制度，也就是被繼承人遺產的總額，但我如果繼承不到，那個總額對我沒有意義，結果稅是我要負擔，這樣沒有道理，你看看中華民國其他的稅，有哪一樣稅是你沒有拿到錢，然後你要繳稅的？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:57:30.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:57:37.908000+08:00","text":"幾乎都沒有，所以我覺得真正的核心精神是在這個地方。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:57:38.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:57:52.900000+08:00","text":"我覺得你們真的可以好好思考，如果你要澈底改變，也有其他先進國家的例子，如果你這個講法是對的話，那為什麼日本人的遺產繼承是用繼承到多少財產才繳多少遺產稅呢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:57:53.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:57:54.481000+08:00","text":"日本也有遺產稅啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:57:55.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:03.188000+08:00","text":"日本也跟我們一樣私有的，民法也是有財產權的保障，日本做得到，為什麼我們臺灣做不到？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:03.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:05.249000+08:00","text":"你們是因為課稅方便啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:06.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:07.010000+08:00","text":"真的啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:07.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:07.750000+08:00","text":"我沒有騙你啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:08.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:10.271000+08:00","text":"我們就法論法，你們是因為課稅方便。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:10.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:11.672000+08:00","text":"好好的思考，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:13.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:15.914000+08:00","text":"憲法法庭的核心精神其實只有一句話，誰拿到錢，誰繳稅。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:16.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:16.915000+08:00","text":"你要想到這一件事情，而且這個是稅法上面的基本原理，本來就是誰拿到錢，誰繳稅嘛！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.055000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.055000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:18.055000+08:00","text":"好，我們再思考。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.295000+08:00","text":"思考看看啦！謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.315000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:17.815000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:19.815000+08:00","text":"謝謝吳秉叡委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-15T09:58:20.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T09:58:22.400714+08:00","text":"接著請賴士葆委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}