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10:53:16","會議時間":"2026-06-15T09:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查「所得稅法」28案：（僅詢答）\n一、本院委員賴士葆等23人、委員柯志恩等19人、委員李彥秀等16人分別擬具「所得稅法第十四條及第十七條條文修正草案」等3案。\n二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團、委員郭國文等16人、委員陳菁徽等17人、委員羅明才等18人、委員張智倫等18人、委員徐巧芯等18人、委員王義川等19人、委員陳菁徽等23人、委員王鴻薇等17人、委員羅廷瑋等23人、委員顏寬恒等18人、委員王正旭等18人、委員謝龍介等16人、委員廖偉翔等16人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員許宇甄等19人、委員翁曉玲等28人、委員林倩綺等20人、委員邱鎮軍等17人、委員洪孟楷等21人、委員羅智強等16人、委員賴士葆等25人、委員郭國文等19人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」等24案。【後2案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n三、本院委員蔡春綢等18人擬具「所得稅法第十七條及第一百二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【6月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":0.03096875,"end":0.48659375000000005,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":6.32534375,"end":9.76784375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":10.425968750000003,"end":11.978468750000001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":15.387218750000002,"end":17.41221875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":17.63159375,"end":35.58659375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":36.09284375,"end":39.48471875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":39.90659375,"end":104.03159375000001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":106.19159375000001,"end":137.84909375,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":116.55284375000001,"end":116.90721875000001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"曾署長國基","start":116.90721875000001,"end":116.97471875000001,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":119.16846875,"end":119.33721875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"曾署長國基","start":123.89346875000001,"end":123.91034375000001,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":123.91034375000001,"end":124.36596875000001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":125.37846875000001,"end":125.76659375000001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":138.72659375,"end":140.92034375,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":140.92034375,"end":142.11846875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":142.11846875,"end":167.41409375,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":157.17096875000001,"end":160.20846875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":164.73096875000002,"end":165.91221875000002,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":166.73909375000002,"end":223.77659375000002,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":224.06346875000003,"end":239.35221875000002,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":240.63471875000002,"end":249.03846875000002,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"曾署長國基","start":241.71471875,"end":241.76534375000003,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":241.76534375000003,"end":242.96346875,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"曾署長國基","start":242.96346875,"end":244.49909375000001,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":249.03846875000002,"end":250.23659375000003,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":250.23659375000003,"end":250.69221875000002,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":250.69221875000002,"end":303.00471875,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"曾署長國基","start":256.49721875,"end":256.88534375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"曾署長國基","start":258.42096875000004,"end":259.11284375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":296.84534375000004,"end":298.70159375000003,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":301.19909375000003,"end":344.36534375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":309.70409375,"end":311.29034375000003,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":345.14159375,"end":347.28471875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":347.28471875,"end":347.33534375000005,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":347.33534375000005,"end":347.47034375000004,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":347.47034375000004,"end":347.48721875,"speaker_score":0.985},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴委員惠員","start":347.48721875,"end":347.53784375000004,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":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謝謝謝謝委員 您的支持 謝謝"},{"start":577.372,"end":601.103,"text":"部長再來我想這個監察院在6月8號公布了一份調查報告就是說涉及國有非公用土地長期遭砂石廠佔用的一個違法經營那這個砂石廠有效的一個管理跟砂石廠試火有不足的一個問題我們除弊心力這個議題是要來跟你共同討論的就是說監察院"},{"start":604.525,"end":608.675,"text":"他指出的5%的一個租金跟實用補償金太低了"},{"start":610.037,"end":634.731,"text":"這個他講的講的有沒有道理因為在前十幾年前的時候你也剛好是在這一個位置那如果就是說申報的地價連息5%那如果來作為使用補償金是太低了那我們是不是在超過50年都沒有去做修正的時候那現在土地的利用價值已經大幅大幅的一個提升了"},{"start":635.111,"end":658.724,"text":"那如果我們來改變這個5%我覺得是相當合理的況且改革國有土地的一個管理制度我認為我認為是應該到了應該要做檢討的時候了部長你怎麼看這個事情謝謝委員我想對於這個沙子產障礙用國有非公用土地國產署都有列冊在管制然後也配合經濟部的一個輔導的方案來做執行那我想細節部分是否可以請署長來跟您好署長謝謝"},{"start":666.359,"end":684.897,"text":"報告委員我想第一個有關於使用補償金的部分因為一般法院都認為不當得利不能超過現有的租金的標準所以大概即使除了有損害賠償以外原則上都會依照租金的比例來做判決"},{"start":686.957,"end":707.427,"text":"我認為就是說這個50年都沒有做修正我們也要提出一個修正的方案包委員如果要調整的話是全國其他的基地租業全部都調包括有10萬戶的農戶跟10萬戶的基地租業全部租金都會往上調"},{"start":707.987,"end":727.56,"text":"是 所以就是說署長我們來討論看看當然我們知道就是說修正有修正的一個困難它的牽扯面很大大概有22萬戶這個是要抱怨核定的我們再來檢討看看那就是說你提出來這個修正方案我們再討論看看好不好謝謝署長 謝謝部長謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:41:13.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:41:14.135000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:41:15.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:41:16.457000+08:00","text":"請財政部莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-15T10:41:16.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:41:16.477000+08:00","text":"有請莊部長。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:41:16.477000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:41:23.165000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:41:23.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:41:23.665000+08:00","text":"部長早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:41:24.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:41:30.932000+08:00","text":"部長，針對少子化的國安問題，其實不能等閒視之。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:41:33.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:03.688000+08:00","text":"對鼓勵生育的新政策，在總統提出18項鼓勵生育措施跟稅制有關的方法出來以後，在地方我們碰到很多的選民，他們一直期待鼓勵生育不要只喊口號，它必須要有財政部的具體支持。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:06.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:15.652000+08:00","text":"上一次因為時間上不允許，我們有提到未成年子女免稅額是不是可以再提高？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:16.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:19.053000+08:00","text":"為什麼不是兩倍的19.4萬？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:19.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:28.036000+08:00","text":"我們也希望你們提供書面報告給我，可是今天就排審所得稅法的修正，所以今天再跟你共同討論。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:28.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:39.039000+08:00","text":"如果我們依現行所得稅法來看，每一個人的免稅額是9.7萬。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:40.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:46.322000+08:00","text":"我要問一下財政部，當政策上路以後，每年損益是多少？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:46.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:48.243000+08:00","text":"你的財源如何安排？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:49.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:42:50.704000+08:00","text":"財政部是不是可以負擔呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:42:53.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:43:01.418000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，院版部分是對0到18歲未成年子女的免稅額提高50%，所以在115年度可以提高到一個孩子15萬1,500塊，還有這個孩子如果是在0到6歲，幼兒學前特別扣除額是可以再疊加上去的，我想這個部分減輕父母在租稅上的負擔。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:43:17.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:43:23.984000+08:00","text":"至於在稅收的評估上，再加50%免稅額的部分，大概是80億元。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:43:26.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:43:28.931000+08:00","text":"會不會造成我們財政重大的衝擊？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:43:31.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:43:53.604000+08:00","text":"針對少子化對策的18項措施，我想除了這一項以外，18項措施林林總總其實有很多，除了賦稅之外，政府還有許多安心生養的政策，譬如說0到2歲的托育補助，還有育兒津貼、成長津貼，除了稅之外，還有直接給予補助，也就是家長可以直接拿到現金。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:43:54.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:44:13.578000+08:00","text":"我們從稅基結構來看未成年子女的免稅額，我現在就是要跟你探討，如果我們提高到20萬時，未成年子女的免稅額占總體所得是不是只需要5%？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:44:13.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:44:46.406000+08:00","text":"你看到這幾項我跟你提出來的，我們根據112年綜所稅來看，全年每一戶申報一整年所賺的總額是6.1兆，在6.1兆裡，我們如果把它增加，每個人是19.4萬塊，大概你會少收到6,208億，可是這只占所得的10%。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:44:46.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:45:01.434000+08:00","text":"如果你用112年的所得淨額，大概是3.01兆；換言之，如果換算成兩倍的話，所得淨額大概只是再少收3,100億。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:45:02.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:45:05.717000+08:00","text":"我再請教財政部可不可能負擔呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:45:05.717000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:45:07.900000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:45:07.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:45:09.662000+08:00","text":"這個是我一向的主張，我們不是給多出來的15.15億，我們有沒有機會給他們每年20萬呢？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:45:09.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:45:11.284000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，委員其實是希望減輕育兒家庭的負擔，我們的目標是一致的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:45:11.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:45:39.439000+08:00","text":"這一次我們整體提出3個階段，包含從生育、養育到教育，一直到4個策略以及5個面向的18項措施，事實上都有考慮到各個面向的平衡性。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:45:39.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:45:57.471000+08:00","text":"除了在免稅額上提高之外，政府還有許多直接支付的金額，包含0到2歲的托育補助、2到6歲的育兒津貼以及新增的成長津貼，每個月每個孩子5,000塊，我想這個部分會更直接。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:45:57.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:05.116000+08:00","text":"我們是在稅的部分，還有在直接的支付補貼，讓家庭能夠減輕負擔，在生活品質上不受到影響，對婚育家庭是好的。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:05.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:05.537000+08:00","text":"部長，簡單來講，財政部是可以負擔的。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:13.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:18.085000+08:00","text":"我聽你講了這麼有計畫、有這麼多項目……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:18.085000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:19.085000+08:00","text":"是多面向的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:19.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:19.986000+08:00","text":"多面向，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:20.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:27.671000+08:00","text":"我們從稅基結構來看未成年子女的免稅額，看起來財政部是足以應付。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:28.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:50.961000+08:00","text":"如果我從證交稅是不是能支持生育政策的角度來看，光是我們5月初統計的證交稅實徵淨額就已經來到2,487億，在5月份的時候就是這個樣子，如果進行推估的話，全年可能會超過5,300億。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:50.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:46:56.342000+08:00","text":"部長，你認為我這個推估正不正確？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:46:56.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:47:05.984000+08:00","text":"對委員的推估，我們不能說不正確，您應該是有所本，就是以日均量來算的，我想這個部分如果日均量也維持1兆以上都可以達成。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:47:06.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:47:07.924000+08:00","text":"你也是同意我這樣的推估……對！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:47:11.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:47:13.647000+08:00","text":"其實中央的財政，我也必須跟委員報告，因為財劃法修正，我們的營業稅只有剩下4.5%，95.5%都到地方去。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:47:13.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:47:40.189000+08:00","text":"今年相比於去年，光是到5月份為止，我們的營業稅就比去年減少一千六百多億，因為證交稅有成長，所以讓中央的稅負還是有比較高的、比較可以維持的部分。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:47:40.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:48:04.877000+08:00","text":"我想跟委員報告，證交稅繳的錢還是進到國庫，國庫的財政好，我們就可以多面向的來補助，直接支付育兒家庭也好，或者是長照支出也好，其實稅收增加到國庫裡面以後，我們可以有更多的財政能力去照顧需要照顧的國人。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:48:04.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:48:05.157000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:48:05.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:48:11.604000+08:00","text":"部長，你把這一個議題很清楚地講出來，也點出來了。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:48:12.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:48:20.612000+08:00","text":"整個生育政策的支持，也不是只有財政部，勞動部也要一起進來。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:48:20.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:49:00.430000+08:00","text":"財政部跟勞動部如果跟企業共同合作，我們把企業托育加碼提升至200%的租稅減免，我們把它套起來的時候，如果依會計項目，我們把專業的托育人員擺在人事費用裡，新建托兒中心及購置托兒設備，我們把它放在員工福利的支出，其實這都有很多變通的方式，以加倍減除的項目來支持托育支出。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:49:01.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:49:15.235000+08:00","text":"我不知道這樣對企業提供的托育服務，我們用租稅優惠支出減除200%，有沒有機會共同支持生育政策？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:49:15.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:49:22.378000+08:00","text":"當然不會只有財政部一個單位去做，那真的是太困難了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:49:23.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:49:28.142000+08:00","text":"委員的意見確實是非常棒，在企業的部分，它提供托育設施及服務支出，我們在租稅上讓它可以200%的支出來減除，我們鼓勵企業、政府還有民眾一起來努力。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:49:28.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:49:48.901000+08:00","text":"對這個部分，如同委員所說的，相關法案也已經經過行政院院會通過，會送到立法院，這是鼓勵企業在托育上的措施。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:49:49.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:49:56.171000+08:00","text":"另外，其實這次非常重要的18項措施裡面，在友善職場的部分提出了相當多的措施，關於這個部分增加的，比如說在職代的部分，資金由政府來付。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:49:56.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:50:08.245000+08:00","text":"其實雙薪家庭我們都經歷過，怎麼樣支持職場上的育兒家庭非常重要。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:50:08.245000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:50:09.245000+08:00","text":"部長，您講的完全正確。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:50:09.245000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:50:10.245000+08:00","text":"對，就如同委員的高見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:50:08.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:50:38.147000+08:00","text":"如果以韓國為例的話，絕對不會只有在財政部的政策上、稅務上，還有各種稅務的補充裡頭可以讓大家都願意生孩子，這個不會只是你們財政部去推動就有可能把它推上來，你看韓國花了多少時間、多少錢，這個時間跟錢其實是值得我們參考的。謝謝。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:50:38.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:50:39.147000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，謝謝委員您的支持，謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:50:44.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:51:07.643000+08:00","text":"部長，再來，監察院在6月8號公布了一份調查報告，涉及國有非公用土地長期遭砂石場占用違法經營，也關於砂石場有效管理跟砂石場是否不足的問題，除弊興利這個議題要跟你共同討論。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:51:08.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:51:19.259000+08:00","text":"有關監察院指出的5%租金跟使用補償金太低了，他講的有沒有道理？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:51:19.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:51:23.521000+08:00","text":"因為在十幾年前，你也剛好在這一個位置。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:51:24.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:51:41.711000+08:00","text":"如果依申報地價年息5%作為使用補償金太低了，你們超過50年都沒有修正，現在土地的利用價值已經大幅提升了。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:51:42.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:51:54.438000+08:00","text":"假設你們改變這個5%，我覺得是相當合理的，況且關於改革國有土地的管理制度，我認為了應該要檢討的時候了。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:51:54.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:51:55.758000+08:00","text":"部長，你怎麼看這個事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:51:56.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:51:57.119000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:51:57.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:05.644000+08:00","text":"對於砂石場占用國有非公用土地，國產署都有列冊在管制，也配合經濟部的輔導方案執行，我想細節部分是否可以請署長來跟您報告？謝謝。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:05.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:05.724000+08:00","text":"好，請署長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:13.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:31.897000+08:00","text":"報告委員，第一個，有關使用補償金的部分，一般法院都認為不當得利不能超過現有的租金標準，除了有損害賠償以外，原則上都會依照租金的比例判決。好。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:33.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:41.641000+08:00","text":"我認為這個50年都沒有修正，你們也要提出一個修正方案。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:41.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:47.143000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果要調整的話，是全國其他的基地租約全部都調。當然！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:47.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:54.987000+08:00","text":"包括有10萬戶農戶跟10萬戶基地租約，全部的租金都會往上調。是。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:55.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:57.749000+08:00","text":"所以署長我們來討論看看……","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:57.749000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:52:58.749000+08:00","text":"好，我們研究看看，因為那個租金核定是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:52:58.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:03.172000+08:00","text":"當然，我知道修正有修正的困難，它的牽扯面很大！","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-06-15T10:53:03.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:08.596000+08:00","text":"對，大概有22萬戶，這個要報院核定，我們再來檢討看看。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:53:09.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:13.839000+08:00","text":"好，你提出修正方案我們再討論看看，好不好？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-06-15T10:53:13.839000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:14.839000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-06-15T10:53:14.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:14.540000+08:00","text":"謝謝，謝謝署長、謝謝部長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-06-15T10:53:14.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:14.560000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（李委員彥秀）","start":"2026-06-15T10:53:15.060000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:18.488571+08:00","text":"我們結束賴惠員委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（李委員彥秀）","start":"2026-06-15T10:53:18.788571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-15T10:53:21.360000+08:00","text":"接下來請林思銘委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}