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09:59:17","會議時間":"2026-06-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等27人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一、第三十五條之二及第三十五條之三條文草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（四）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（五）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（六）委員李柏毅等19人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一及第三十五條之二條文草案」案。\n（七）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（八）委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一及第三十五條之二條文草案」案。\n（九）委員林思銘等17人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（十）委員林倩綺等17人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「律師法第七條及第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳素月等18人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等17人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員羅智強等17人擬具「律師法第七條、第七十四條及第七十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【6月17日及18日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":2.9672187500000002,"end":4.31721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":10.290968750000001,"end":12.24846875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":12.484718750000003,"end":13.58159375,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"邱副組長顯良","start":13.58159375,"end":14.47596875,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":15.99471875,"end":16.180343750000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":16.973468750000002,"end":42.72471875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":43.87221875,"end":69.85971875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"邱副組長顯良","start":51.02721875,"end":51.46596875,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"邱副組長顯良","start":51.90471875,"end":51.97221875,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"邱副組長顯良","start":60.713468750000004,"end":60.814718750000004,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":60.814718750000004,"end":60.84846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"邱副組長顯良","start":60.84846875,"end":61.118468750000005,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":70.28159375,"end":70.75409375000001,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":72.28971875,"end":116.01284375,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":116.28284375000001,"end":126.59346875000001,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":126.86346875000001,"end":127.55534375,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":129.19221875,"end":133.74846875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":134.11971875,"end":144.75096875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":144.93659375000001,"end":150.20159375,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":150.55596875,"end":158.36909375000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":158.38596875000002,"end":174.85596875000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":176.54346875000002,"end":193.40159375000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":193.63784375,"end":194.93721875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":195.22409375,"end":200.20221875000001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":199.96596875,"end":200.94471875000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":200.86034375000003,"end":249.40971875000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":210.54659375,"end":210.61409375000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":210.63096875000002,"end":210.68159375000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":223.11846875,"end":223.23659375000003,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":237.68159375000002,"end":237.91784375,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":242.38971875000001,"end":243.14909375000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":249.59534375,"end":255.68721875000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":252.41346875000002,"end":252.91971875000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":255.94034375,"end":270.46971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":260.15909375,"end":260.64846875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":270.67221875,"end":271.61721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"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謝謝主席 我們先請保部次長請馮次長"},{"start":17.031,"end":41.874,"text":"市長好 我想今天大家關注這個議題最主要是因為接二連三有發生一些律師被攻擊而且不幸傷重不治或是死亡的一個案件所以我想今天做這個質詢其實並不我想這整個修法其實並不是只是保護律師個人其實我認為還有更深一層的是我們保護了當事人的權利以及司法程序不能夠被威脅所干擾這是我的想法"},{"start":43.902,"end":70.444,"text":"我現在就會就幾個點來跟次長討論最主要是說法務部跟委員的差異其實是在保護範圍因為許多委員的版本都是希望保護範圍可以涵蓋到律師依法執行職務時受到威脅滋擾或傷害的一個防害的一個情形那有些版本也設計了警察及時排除較高刑度甚至未遂犯預備犯等的規定那"},{"start":72.375,"end":92.077,"text":"相較之下呢法務部的版本就比較限縮主要是針對律師與司法人員執行職務時遭到強暴、脅迫、恐嚇或其他非法方法妨礙業務的情形那我也可以理解啦我們大概也知道法務部的顧慮就是說如果今天的我的範圍擴得非常寬的時候呢"},{"start":92.717,"end":114.483,"text":"因為可能會有一些定義不明的問題例如就是說像是律師的工作型態很多元有可能是在法院遞減有可能在選民服務處也有可能是在這個職場裡面去做這個諮詢或者是去做一些調解等等的如果全部都用同一個刑法條文納入可能也的確會有您我們之前剛剛講這個範圍過"},{"start":117.184,"end":144.399,"text":"指法疑慮等等的一個問題不過因為我覺得還是要回到剛剛我前面講的啦實際上面就是受到傷害的而且這個案例也是接二連三啦齁那上次我在質詢法院安全問題的時候呢其實我也看到司法院在安全指引的時候有把高風險當事人通報民眾道院滋擾法院公共區域衝突升級兩照離庭分流等等的來納入一個安全程序齁"},{"start":145.72,"end":174.694,"text":"那這些就是在顯示實務上的確這些風險都有可能都可能是會發生的啦像這個我現在簡報投出來的這個例子這是他剛踏出法院也就是說現在這個案例其實是不確定我不確定到底有沒有規範在法務部的修法的範圍之內所以這個也是想要跟法務部來釐清的以這個是剛走出去他就被撞死"},{"start":176.584,"end":194.702,"text":"如果說現在以法務部的這個版本的話他是在偵查審判程序前後或在接見調節法律輔助等程序關於程序相關場務場域中因執行律師職務遭受到威脅但並非與司法人員執行職務時那是否適用呢"},{"start":195.442,"end":218.681,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在這一個法案還是在預告中預告當中我知道所以到720所以目前都在歡迎就像委員剛剛提的我們也會高度重視然後各團體的一個聲音我們也都會聽到會妥為做一個處理那事實上張時在討論這一條的時候那很多學者他是認為說"},{"start":219.983,"end":249.122,"text":"基本上要看的還是一個公益性因為我們這個條文他參考的是醫療法那所以某一個部分上面因為醫生在這個救護跟急救一些事情上的話他那個場域是比較封閉比較可以判斷那我們這一個部分就是說律師職業的那個範圍其實真的是很多元很寬比方說甚至是說他在公司擔任法律顧問那他這樣的也是執行職務的話會有很多"},{"start":249.762,"end":265.805,"text":"很多的一個部分是我們覺得太寬但是我也同意委員剛剛講的這個部分是不是說有些部分我們這樣的訂還是不夠的一個就過窄了那我們會聽各界的聲音再去做一個妥適的一個處理因為事實上如果假設是我"},{"start":267.346,"end":286.539,"text":"這個還沒有回去討論啦但是問題是說基本上應該是說我們既然要訂這一個條文基本上還是應該是以說能夠讓律師執行職務上的一個公益性能夠徹底的一個被保障啦所以如果說這個開完車以後到就是一離開法院的這樣還是在很密接的執行職務的時間"},{"start":287.86,"end":312.612,"text":"這樣的狀況如果說就法條上就不能適用的話確實我們也會有一些擔心所以這個部分跟委員報告我們回去我們會整體在7月20號後我們會把所有的聲音都收集起來再進行更進一步的一個討論再來確認說那個範圍到底多寬才算是合適因為其實下一個部分可能警政署也要一起這個部分也是想要一起請各位請警政署"},{"start":320.336,"end":348.918,"text":"好就是因為這個東西其實延續到警察在第一線執法的時候會不會可以啦就是說因為在幾個委員的版本其實都有提到如果律師合法執行職務時呢受到滋擾或妨礙警察機關應該要協助排除或制止這個設計呢其實希望在風險發生之前升高之前就緩快來協助避免進一步發生暴力或傷害事件嘛那但是因為法務部現在還是放在事件發生之後的一個刑事處罰"},{"start":349.819,"end":376.836,"text":"並沒有規定這個警察機關可以來即時排除或制止啦那當然警察的確是說依照我們現在的警察法或是職權行使法它涉及危及公共安全以及公共秩序個人生命身體自由財產等等它是可以來採取必要措施可是這是一般性的危害防止啦所以也不是針對於律師因為執行公務務而造成的執行職務而受到的一些侵擾所以我想要請警政署說明的是說"},{"start":378.117,"end":402.296,"text":"這樣子的 現在這樣子的一個規定是否因為它現在的這個法務部的版本35條之一沒有明文寫入警察協助排除或制止也沒有建立跨機關的SOP的時候第一線員警是否有辦法介入呢在沒有明確發生傷害但已經有滋擾賭人衝突等等的情形的時候是否可以介入還是會比較保守呢好 主席各位委員 各位先進"},{"start":404.178,"end":420.507,"text":"本部就這個部分來提出說明那有關在律師合法執行職務的時候如果有遭遇暴力脅迫怒罵或其他非法的情私那如果有這樣的具體的一個情況那因為他已經違反這個刑法社會秩序的合法當然我們會到場來"},{"start":422.108,"end":422.288,"text":"有這個具體的預警情資"},{"start":452.472,"end":468.186,"text":"的話 可以提早跟我們來做一個包案那我們會做適當的一個處理好喔 了解 好 謝謝那我們還是想要來請教一下法務部啦齁因為我覺得這樣看起來 就是要預警這個他們要啟動的要件是有足夠的預警情資嘛 對不對但是有些時候是真的"},{"start":468.846,"end":486.259,"text":"沒有辦法嘛對不對不一定有辦法啦所以我想了解就是說因為我們其實在看到社工法因為你剛剛講的是醫療法那我想提供一個參考畢竟現在是在日告的過程啦因為我自己會覺得其實跟社工法應該也有一些可以來參考的地方在第19條裡面社工師執行業務時有受到妨礙"},{"start":489.801,"end":504.751,"text":"或身體精神遭受不法侵害之餘時得請求警察機關提供必要之協助我想問的是說我們是不是有可能參考社工司法因為它其實也是一個前面先有一個可以先請警察來協助的過程那接下來呢它再來就是"},{"start":506.852,"end":524.703,"text":"您把這個範圍也寫得很明確我們是不是可以參考社工司法來訂定呢這是一個參考市長您的想法我們回去也一起就針對這個部分再去做進一步的一個就是說再去就讓它更完善那因為其實我們像警察的這個部分因為其實剛剛"},{"start":525.831,"end":554.465,"text":"我們警政署這邊也有說明就是說它一般上面可能依照我們警察法第九條大概也可以完成現在的一個狀況那也就是說在於機關安全這部分我知道其實委員很重視那目前上面來講本部也發函各檢查機關去妥適的去規劃機關的一個動線空間動線透過門禁制度安全檢查罰警維安還有應變機制然後預防暴力的發生然後維護這個民眾跟律師還有其他訴訟"},{"start":555.245,"end":570.467,"text":"的這個參與人的安全這部分因為委員很關心有 我們有看到對 特別跟您說一下這可以肯定啦是 謝謝對 那主要就是說這部分參考社工司法是可以是OK的嘛對不對就是因為它的範圍什麼都寫得相對明確啦那最後一個"},{"start":571.588,"end":593.52,"text":"我想就是說今天其實問了這些問題包含很多的委員的關注其實都是希望制度要兼顧三件事情啦最重要就是三件事情第一個就是說律師在依法執行職務的時候他不會因為人身安全而退縮啦那第二個呢就是說我們當事人的權利也不應該因為他的律師受到威脅而受到影響"},{"start":594.58,"end":615.009,"text":"那第三個呢是我們合法陳情批評或者是表意都應該受到保障沒有錯但是一旦進入了威脅賭人或衝突升高的危安情境的時候我認為國家就應該要有清楚明確及時的保護機制來保護我們的律師我們的他在執行業務的這個安全好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:49:01.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:49:02.242000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們先請法務部次長。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T09:49:02.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:49:02.262000+08:00","text":"請馮次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:49:02.262000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:49:15.271000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:49:15.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:49:15.271000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:49:16.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:49:39.854000+08:00","text":"今天大家關注這個議題最主要是因為接二連三有發生一些律師被攻擊且不幸傷重不治或者死亡的案件，今天的這個質詢，我想這整個修法其實並不只是保護律師個人，我認為還有更深一層的是保護了當事人的權利以及司法程序不能夠被威脅所干擾，這是我的想法。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:49:39.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:49:41.902000+08:00","text":"是，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:49:41.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:50:07.663000+08:00","text":"我現在就幾個點來跟次長討論，最主要是說，法務部跟委員的版本差異其實是在保護範圍，許多委員的版本都是希望保護範圍可以涵蓋到律師依法執行職務時受到威脅、滋擾或傷害的妨害情形，但有些版本也設計了警察即時排除、較高刑度甚至未遂犯、預備犯等等的規定。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:50:10.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:50:23.269000+08:00","text":"相較之下，法務部的版本就比較限縮，主要是針對律師與司法人員執行職務時，遭到強暴、脅迫、恐嚇或其他非法之方法妨害其執行業務的情形。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:50:24.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:50:57.425000+08:00","text":"我可以理解也大概知道法務部的顧慮是說，如果今天將範圍擴得非常寬的時候，可能會有一些定義不明的問題，例如像是律師的工作型態很多元，有可能是在法院、地檢，有可能在選民服務處，也有可能是在職場裡面去做諮詢，或者是去做一些調解等等的，如果全部都用同一個刑罰條文來納入，可能也的確會有我們之前講的範圍過廣、執法疑慮等等的問題。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:50:57.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:51:03.829000+08:00","text":"不過我覺得還是要回到剛剛我前面所講的，實際上就有律師受到傷害，而且相關案例也是接二連三。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:51:07.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:51:49.913000+08:00","text":"上次我在質詢法院安全問題的時候，其實我也看到司法院在安全指引中有把高風險當事人預警通報、民眾到院滋擾處置、法院公共區域衝突升級應變、兩造離庭分流等等的納入安全程序，這些都顯示出在實務上的確這些風險都可能會發生，像我現在簡報上的這個例子，他剛踏出法院，也就是說，這個案例我不確定到底有沒有規範在法務部的修法範圍之內，所以這個也是想要跟法務部來釐清的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:51:50.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:52:12.682000+08:00","text":"以這個案子來說，剛走出去就被撞死，如果現在以法務部的版本來看，他是在偵查審判程序前後，或在接見、調解、法律扶助等程序相關場域中，因執行律師職務遭受到威脅，但並非與司法人員執行職務時，是否適用呢？","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:52:13.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:52:18.006000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在這個法案還在預告中……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:52:18.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:52:18.747000+08:00","text":"在預告當中，我知道。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:52:19.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:52:31.137000+08:00","text":"預告到720，所以目前都歡迎各界的意見，像委員剛剛提的我們會高度重視，然後各團體的聲音我們也都會聽到，會妥為處理。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:52:31.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:53:50.682000+08:00","text":"事實上，當時在討論這一條的時候，很多學者認為基本上要看的還是公益性，因為我們這個條文參考的是醫療法，所以某一個部分上，因為醫生在救護跟急救的事情上，那個場域是比較封閉、比較可以判斷，我們這一個部分，就是律師執業的範圍其實真的是很多元、很寬，比方說他在公司擔任法律顧問，這樣也是執行職務的話，會有很多部分是我們覺得太寬，但是我也同意委員剛剛講的這個部分，是不是有些部分我們這樣訂定還是不夠、過窄了，我們會聽各界的聲音，再去做妥適的處理，因為事實上如果假設是……這個還沒有回去討論啦，但是基本上應該是說，我們既然要訂這個條文，還是應該以讓律師執行職務上的公益性能夠澈底的被保障，所以如果像這個案例，在一離開法院就開車撞律師，還是在很密接的執行職務的時間，這樣的狀況如果在法條上就不能適用的話，確實我們也會有一些擔心。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:53:50.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:54:03.869000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分，跟委員報告，在7月20號後，我們會把所有的聲音都收集起來，進行更進一步的討論，再來確認那個範圍到底多寬才算是合宜。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:54:03.869000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:54:05.609000+08:00","text":"好，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:54:05.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:54:10.592000+08:00","text":"下一個部分可能警政署也要一起，可不可以請警政署？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:54:18.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:54:51.902000+08:00","text":"好，這個其實延續到警察在第一線執法的時候會不會可以啦，因為在幾個委員的版本都有提到，如果律師合法執行職務時受到滋擾或妨礙，警察機關應該要協助排除或制止，這個設計其實是希望在風險發生之前、升高之前就趕快來協助，避免進一步發生暴力或傷害事件嘛，但是因為法務部現在還是放在事件發生之後的刑事處罰，並沒有規定警察機關可以即時排除或制止。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:54:53.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:55:12.595000+08:00","text":"當然，就警察來說，依照現行的警察法或職權行使法，面臨危及公共安全、公共秩序或個人生命、身體、自由、財產等等行為，是可以採取必要措施，可是這是一般性的危害防制，也不是針對於律師因執行職務而遭受到的一些侵擾。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:55:12.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:55:30.829000+08:00","text":"所以我想要請警政署說明的是，現在這樣的規定，因為目前法務部版第三十五之一沒有明文寫入警察協助排除或制止，也沒有建立跨機關SOP的時候，第一線員警是否有辦法介入呢？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:55:31.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:55:38.495000+08:00","text":"在沒有明確發生傷害但已經有滋擾、堵人、衝突等等情形的時候，是否可以介入，還是會比較保守呢？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"邱副組長顯良","start":"2026-06-17T09:55:39.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:55:40.296000+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員、各位先進。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱副組長顯良","start":"2026-06-17T09:55:42.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:55:58.507000+08:00","text":"本部就這個部分提出說明，有關律師合法執行職務的時候，如果有遭遇暴力、脅迫、辱罵或其他非法情事，如果有具體的情況，因為他已經違反刑法、社會秩序維護法，當然我們會到場來做處理！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱副組長顯良","start":"2026-06-17T09:55:58.507000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:55:59.507000+08:00","text":"另外，如果他在合法執行職務的時候，有具體的預警情資，他可以預先到我們警察機關來報案，或者是說當下立即撥打110報案，我們員警也是會到場來做適當的處理，以上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:55:59.507000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:56:00.507000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是說，在現在這個範圍裡面，只要有可能堵人、跟隨，即便還沒有明確的傷害結果，警察就可以介入？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱副組長顯良","start":"2026-06-17T09:56:00.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:56:34.135000+08:00","text":"有這個具體的預警情資的話，可以提早跟我們報案，我們會做適當的處理。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:56:34.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:56:35.957000+08:00","text":"好，了解，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:56:36.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:56:47.987000+08:00","text":"我還是想要來請教一下法務部，我覺得這樣看起來，他們啟動的要件是要有足夠的預警情資，但是有些時候是真的沒有辦法嘛，對不對？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:56:47.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:56:48.928000+08:00","text":"不一定有辦法啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:56:49.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:57:13.004000+08:00","text":"所以我想要了解的是，因為我們有看到社工師法的規定，你剛剛講的是醫療法，我想提供一個參考，畢竟現在還在預告的過程嘛，我自己覺得其實社工師法應該也有一些可以參考的地方，例如該法第十九條規定，社工師執行業務時，有受到妨礙，或身體、精神遭受不法侵害之虞者，得請求警察機關提供必要之協助。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:57:13.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:57:16.307000+08:00","text":"我想問的是，我們是不是有可能參考社工師法？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:57:16.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:57:29.515000+08:00","text":"因為社工師法也是前面先有一個可以請警察來協助的過程，而且也有把那個範圍寫得很明確，我們是不是可以參考社工師法來訂定呢？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:57:29.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:57:31.756000+08:00","text":"這是一個參考，次長的想法如何？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:57:31.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:58:17.832000+08:00","text":"是，委員，我們回去也一起針對這個部分再去做進一步的討論，讓它更完善，因為像警察的部分，其實剛剛警政署這邊也有說明，一般來說，可照警察法第九條大概也可以完成現在的狀況，也就是說，在機關安全這部分，我知道委員很重視，目前本部也發函各檢察機關去妥適地規劃機關的空間動線，透過門禁制度、安全檢查、法警維安還有應變機制，預防暴力的發生，然後維護民眾、律師及其他訴訟參與人的安全，這個部分因為委員很關心，所以我特別跟您說一下。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:58:17.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:58:18.533000+08:00","text":"有，我們有看到，這個給予肯定啦！","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:58:18.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:58:19.754000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:58:19.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:58:24.341000+08:00","text":"主要就是說，這部分參考社工師法是OK的嘛，對不對？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:58:24.341000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:58:25.341000+08:00","text":"是，我們也會一併參考。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:58:24.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:58:27.385000+08:00","text":"因為它的範圍什麼都寫得相對明確啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:58:28.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:59:12.509000+08:00","text":"最後，今天問了這些問題，包含很多委員的關注，其實都是希望制度要兼顧三件事情，最重要就是這三件事情，第一個，律師在依法執行職務的時候，不會因為人身安全而退縮；第二個，當事人的權利也不應該因為他的律師受到威脅而受到影響；第三個，我們合法陳情、批評或者是表意都應該受到保障沒有錯，但是一旦進入了威脅、堵人或衝突升高的維安情境的時候，我認為國家就應該要有清楚、明確、即時的保護機制來保護律師執行業務時的安全。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-06-17T09:59:12.509000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:59:13.509000+08:00","text":"是，敬表贊同。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-17T09:59:12.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T09:59:13.009000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席（張委員雅琳代）","start":"2026-06-17T09:59:13.509000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T09:59:16.366143+08:00","text":"下一位有請莊瑞雄委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}