{"error":false,"id":["170018"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170018,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170018","日期":"2026-06-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-17T10:29:21+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-17T10:43:57+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:36","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d79496a9ef369d5fab53553307c66875ff6f11fc4da20edf06bfb484b39de060314697a4fd0cd6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"10:29:21 - 10:43:57","會議時間":"2026-06-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等27人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一、第三十五條之二及第三十五條之三條文草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（四）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（五）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（六）委員李柏毅等19人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一及第三十五條之二條文草案」案。\n（七）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（八）委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一及第三十五條之二條文草案」案。\n（九）委員林思銘等17人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n（十）委員林倩綺等17人擬具「律師法增訂第三十五條之一條文草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「律師法第七條及第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳素月等18人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等17人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員羅智強等17人擬具「律師法第七條、第七十四條及第七十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「律師法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【6月17日及18日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.3678437500000005,"end":6.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.822218750000001,"end":16.180343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.33221875,"end":19.082843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.17159375,"end":18.239093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.512843750000002,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.69409375,"end":23.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.26784375,"end":88.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.16034375000001,"end":121.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.88971875,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.12596875000001,"end":94.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.70721875000001,"end":100.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.75034375000001,"end":129.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.05784375,"end":127.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.85471875000002,"end":139.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.19909375,"end":147.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.92346875,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.48846875,"end":154.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.92659375000002,"end":163.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.21221875,"end":230.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.25409375,"end":165.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.89096875,"end":167.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.73034375,"end":169.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.38409375,"end":170.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.21846875000003,"end":235.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.62284375000002,"end":286.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.44596875,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.52471875000003,"end":322.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.73159375,"end":326.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.96721875000003,"end":327.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.08096875,"end":331.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.26596875,"end":334.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.20221875000004,"end":335.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.13034375,"end":336.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.83909375,"end":359.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.62284375,"end":344.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.06159375000004,"end":344.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.89034375,"end":368.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.06221875,"end":376.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.57971875000004,"end":386.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.36721875,"end":389.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.05471875,"end":388.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.78034375000004,"end":396.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.46784375000004,"end":392.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.98596875000004,"end":410.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.04034375000003,"end":399.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.58409375,"end":402.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.85409375,"end":402.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.36346875000004,"end":415.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.84784375000004,"end":423.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.90659375,"end":417.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.97409375,"end":418.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.43721875,"end":476.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.38846875,"end":439.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.34471875,"end":484.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.12034375,"end":481.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.06096875000003,"end":483.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.42784375,"end":496.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.60909375000006,"end":485.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.00846875,"end":497.20221875000004},{"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問范允教授請馮次長你好"},{"start":23.433,"end":52.182,"text":"市長早安今天我們的主題是律師的倫理跟相關的風紀自律所以我要用一個個案來討論制度上的問題要請求法務部協助這個個案是這樣子想請問這個市長如果就是有一位律師他接觸女高中生然後提供義務的法律諮詢可是卻讓這個女高中生覺得"},{"start":53.643,"end":67.433,"text":"女高中生後來上了大學覺得對方在她不同意之後還是搂腰超過十次甚至在後來跟對方的對話中講出我這邊所寫的沒有一夜情經驗要怎麼談性權"},{"start":72.617,"end":88.478,"text":"然後我還沒攻略過花蓮女孩有吃過一個護士的花蓮人而且這個所謂的受害者申訴人明確表達這樣子聽了很不舒服您覺得這個人如果是律師的話是不是有違反相關的紀律"},{"start":92.224,"end":112.621,"text":"這個律師有倫理規範那剛剛我們那個召委第一條也有唸得很清楚就是這個律師法的相關的這個規範事實上來講我覺得這樣的這個部分大概社會上都有公平那以如果這個是我就講檢察官的角度來看就如果以檢察官是涉及到這樣的狀況的話那大概我看"},{"start":113.181,"end":134.687,"text":"之前的類似的案子裡面很多都被免職轉事務官了大概我們的檢察官的標準裡面我們的守則裡面是覺得是不行的您覺得是有違反它相關的專業倫理因為這個專業倫理的部分可能要有法律的一個諮詢的過程我們還是尊重律師自治就律師的一個他們的一個倫理規範的部分我們不便去介入評價"},{"start":135.447,"end":162.737,"text":"但我這轉化成說如果我們檢察官內部是這樣的話我們就會去處理那如果律師的自治團體律師公會是律師自治團體嗎覺得應該要懲戒之後應該怎麼處理律師會有那個懲戒委員會他們會去判斷那他們如果認定這個行為重大應該懲戒要怎麼處理最重的當然他有很多的不同的狀況嘛那個剛剛有提到說有的會被認為要停止職務有的會被最重的會除名"},{"start":163.311,"end":186.419,"text":"就是有從輕度停止一段時間的職務到最重度的是除名如果是很大的案件那我剛跟您講的這個是一個真實的陳情人那她是一位女性那這個你看她有跟我們開記者會所以她是願意站出來的是MeToo運動中一個出來吹哨的黃 當時是學生黃同學"},{"start":189.6,"end":205.131,"text":"那他在高中的時候就被理性律師主動接觸2016年被理性律師肢體性騷擾後來呢他跟理性律師要求表達不舒服或希望對方能夠表達歉意之後繼續被言語性騷擾"},{"start":206.232,"end":234.563,"text":"那後來呢他站出來吹哨接到至少七位受害人跟他聯絡就是這位李姓律師不是只有針對一位女性所以呢這整個他被這位李姓律師性騷擾時間橫跨2010年到2020年那真的非常勇敢的女性他開記者會的時候並沒有戴口罩所以這是當時的媒體的報導"},{"start":235.983,"end":258.329,"text":"那後來呢他覺得這當時MeToo我們有非常多包含由律師等等我們希望律師、會計師、牙醫師、醫師、中醫師、建築師這個都有可能涉及到不對等的專業權利關係的都可以自律我們本來以為就是事情就這樣子了那因為律師公會表達他們很願意接觸被害人"},{"start":259.169,"end":286.488,"text":"所以一起開記者會可是呢沒有想到就是這件事情到現在還沒有結果這是2020剛剛那是202幾年2023年的站出來了你想想一位年輕的女性要對一位專業年紀比較大的律師就是做這樣的陳述那我還是要先肯定台北律師公會接到申訴之後有處理"},{"start":287.646,"end":305.515,"text":"這是他們的案件的決定書2025年7月他怎麼決定他們調查之後說這位李姓律師利用執行職務之機會與委任人有不當之肢體接觸足以損害律師名譽或信用之行為"},{"start":306.295,"end":332.67,"text":"有失律師職業尊嚴及榮譽並避免損及律師形象不符合律師職業之品位與尊嚴違反律師法第二條第三十九條律師倫理規範第三條第六條等規定而且情節重大當屬無疑這個是台北律師公會的報告就是我們跟他請問他提供給我們的報告那再來應該怎麼樣這是次長"},{"start":335.271,"end":359.327,"text":"知事知道嗎跟委員報告其實一般來講地方公會它有一副懲戒的這個一送懲戒的權利那會到律師懲戒委員會那依照律師法第八九條第一項的規定律師懲戒委員會應於受理的懲戒事件後三個月內完成審議必要時的延長到六個月所以事實上來講就是說如果照這個部分上面來看它基本上"},{"start":360.188,"end":375.469,"text":"律懲會的這個成員包括法官檢察官律師如果我不曉得目前這一個案的一個實際的狀況都可能還要再回去嗎所以依照您剛剛那個答被如流2025年7月如果送給律師懲戒委員會半年內會有結果"},{"start":377.311,"end":395.944,"text":"應該是這樣子法條是規定說受理懲戒事件後三個月內完成審議必要時得延長至三個月內完成審議必要時得延長至六個月所以說這一件的部分我們可能回去再跟方文"},{"start":396.084,"end":413.673,"text":"我現在不是只是為這個個案我知道那也讓那個次長知道一下這個案子的情況2025年7月台北律師工會就移赴律師懲戒委員會您講的6個月應該是今年1月那現在是2026年6月"},{"start":415.914,"end":441.262,"text":"目前進度不明啊那後來這個受害當事人就決定委託司改會幫他追了一位當事人不可能追得到律師懲戒委員會連司改會這麼重要一個律師的組織都你知道得到的答案就是進度不明欸所以完全不是您剛講的三個月到六個月內會有結果"},{"start":443.543,"end":471.946,"text":"那不知道為什麼我們去查相關的規定跟您講的不太一樣就是所謂的律師懲戒及審議細則就是還定的是分案後兩個月內要做成審議意見一個月內要召開審議會議審議會議七日內做成決議聽起來很有效率分案後兩個月一個月好像三個月加七天之類的可是問題是什麼時候分案我們辦公室追一追"},{"start":473.027,"end":496.95,"text":"一副律師懲戒委員會到分案之間不知道要多久欸好像沒有規定跟您剛剛講的那個三個月六個月非常不一樣欸到底是哪裡出了問題這個次長公務委員報告我們講的這個條文是律師法第八十九條第一項它是法律那委員現在秀在螢幕上這個是律師懲戒跟審議的所以這個行政命令違反法律"},{"start":497.29,"end":525.948,"text":"也不是 它是更進一步的去定怎麼樣去操作這樣的一個事情那可是已經違反你剛剛講的法律定的六個月所以委員 這個不是本部的業務所以我們會去幫忙了解請問這是哪一個單位 是司法院嗎司法院可不可以也一起一下今天來了是吳廳長因為那個次長說是你們的業務的確是 這個律師承接委員會預算是放在你們司法院嗎"},{"start":526.778,"end":541.701,"text":"沒有說是他們啦,就是說不是我們那是誰?不是法務部是誰的業務?這個律師懲戒委員會懲戒委員會應該是一個獨立的機關吧是獨立的他不會隸屬於司法院也不會那這樣子他的這個細節、細則已經影響人民權益的話那應該誰來處理?他這麼獨立"},{"start":553.597,"end":571.315,"text":"細則應該是法務部來主管所以剛法務部說你們 然後你們說法務部應該這麼說啦 就是懲戒委員會是一個獨立的那律師法是本部主管的業務然後我們的律師法規定的這89條我剛剛已經唸給委員聽了嘛那至於細則這個部分細則是誰管 這個律師懲戒及審議細則是誰管"},{"start":575.279,"end":604.644,"text":"其實是按照律師法去定這樣律師法主管機關是保護所以就不是司法院囉所以說跟委員報告它是它是這個規定出了問題還是操作出了問題我不知道啊林市長林市司法保護長官嘛因為今天委員提的這個事情我們是就是我們聽到以後我們回去會了解一下說可能這個因為這個獨立的單位裡面它有沒有分案或者移送的狀況怎麼樣細節的部分我們會再跟委員做一個說明跟報告"},{"start":604.804,"end":630.421,"text":"那我要講的事情是這麼勇敢一個女生這麼2023年就站出來現在是2026年了這樣子一個案子而且台北律師公會說情節重大然後當事人站出來之後還有多個受害人跟他聯絡所以最後就是一個當事人出來申訴而且有司改會在背後追都追到現在沒結果"},{"start":631.001,"end":648.224,"text":"我真的不知道大家其他人是怎麼樣追這些事情林仲豪律師在司改會的座談會說律師懲戒有三大挑戰他的意思是說調查權能空洞化法律適用僵化資源組織轉型不足所以常常塞案"},{"start":649.125,"end":677.993,"text":"所以我們今天修法修了半天到時候這個機制根本就沒有用處那我們修這個法我很懷疑就是說司法院跟法務部有沒有真正在關心這件事情好那我告訴你我們辦公室去查我們作為立委助理都看到地方律師公會根本就沒有把這個申訴程序放在網站上所以公開申訴管道也不明確所以大家顯然都不希望有人來申訴相關的事情"},{"start":678.553,"end":698.288,"text":"所以我們修法修半天是不是根本就沒有效果那我認為多數的律師都是非常的專業很棒像我們那個昭偉這個大律師真的是非常好可是呢我們不可以讓少數個別律師影響律師整體專業形象嘛這是我們法務部跟司法院要保護的對不對"},{"start":699.449,"end":723.802,"text":"所以可不可以研究一下其他民主國家的律師自律做法跟你剛剛的那個所謂的那個行政命令等等到底是哪裡本國的這個相關行政規範哪裡出問題那協助律師公會至少建置可供民眾申訴的公開管道網站上是不是可以寫清楚一點流程那最後也請司法院"},{"start":725.086,"end":748.537,"text":"雖然這個行政命令是法務部管的預算是放在你們那裡的司改會的座談會說沒有錢人太少所以塞車是不是可以提供資源讓律師懲戒委員會不要再以人力不足為由一個案子可以拖這麼的久就是拖了連台北律師公會送進去都一年了沒有下文當事人得不到一個交代"},{"start":748.857,"end":772.628,"text":"可以嗎 這三件事 法務部兩件 司法院一件可以答應我 可以做到嗎我們回去第一會了解這個委員剛剛提的這個案件的部分目前到底是哪裡出了問題那第二個部分就是說有關於說因為我們的這個律師就剛剛我們講他有高度的一個自治性那我們這部分因為我們也會跟律師公會這邊都有很多接觸的一個機會"},{"start":773.188,"end":793.501,"text":"自治的台北律師公會說這個人案情重大 送懲戒了我們會把建議他們就是說讓我們的一些制度上的東西能夠更順暢更透明這個部分我們會去跟他們做那我們在修罰懲戒的時候這個機制要是能夠運作有效率的而不是讓大家覺得被吃案了好不好"},{"start":795.002,"end":821.895,"text":"也跟委員說明一下那個綠城會的預算並不是由司法院編的那目前是由司法院高院提供場地跟書記官來協助綠城會開會而已那綠城會如果說他資源不足塞案那這是應該誰提供資源你們一個法務部一個司法院都說不知道這不是很奇特嗎委員我們回去再把他了解清楚我們辦公室看到的預算是在司法院下面啦"},{"start":824.228,"end":846.085,"text":"獨立 但他預算總不會叫那些律師代表自己出吧好好"},{"start":847.183,"end":863.318,"text":"兩位一位是次長 法務部次長一位是司法院司法行政廳廳長兩位都不知道這個資源誰提供可見大家沒有在關心這個律師懲戒委員會好不好請你們回去了解清楚多久內可以給本席一個書面報告還是有個時間吧我們這樣可以追蹤"},{"start":871.052,"end":874.86,"text":"一個月 兩位都可以一個月一個月我等你們報告 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}