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那我們現在進行協商我們首先進行第一案的協商司法法制內政兩委員會報告並案審查委員鄭天才等21人台灣民眾黨黨團委員張志倫等17人委員葉元芝等21人及委員羅美玲等18人分別凝聚內政部組織法第五條條文修正草案等5案"},{"start":1892.048,"end":1901.914,"text":"本案審查會於14年6月30日審查完畢審查結果第5條保留送院會處理並決議院會討論前交由黨團協商協商時請參閱協商條件對照表及審查報告與會委員如果進行動議或機關有建議內容請提出書面應發現場進行討論"},{"start":1919.588,"end":1948.126,"text":"有沒有人聯絡麥委員因為這個是他的重點案件他還要多久麥委員應該快到了吧因為協商是要三檔都要在才能協商"},{"start":1949.283,"end":1957.618,"text":"那我就先提幾個觀點我們等一下那個邁委員因為我們協商必須那個三檔都要到那現在還欠一個"},{"start":1959.015,"end":1981.747,"text":"我想說現在因為有關這新住民的部分因為各部會還有中央還有各地其實各管各的多頭馬車所以新住民發展署主要我們大家的想法是變成一個單一窗口還有協調的中樞然後把那個同意的語言、就業、醫療等等還有一些法律協助、公共議題我們把它變成是一個治理鏈"},{"start":1983.328,"end":1998.281,"text":"那我們可以去定清楚KPI還有預算等等的這個責任不會說各部會各失其職然後變成重複或者是浪費資源或者是互推責任的狀況發生其實這個就可以把很多行政行為簡化"},{"start":1999.662,"end":2019.55,"text":"那再来我们希望说把沟通做成是一个服务就是因为这个其实是新加坡给我们的一个提醒因为新加坡他自己的经验我们认为说很值得参考因为他是减少误会多沟通然后族群就能够好好相处那不管对我们或对一些新住民都是一样的想法"},{"start":2020.43,"end":2037.959,"text":"我想現在台灣新住民越來越多很常卡關的就是一些交通 日常搭車 看病或是公部門辦事等等的如果我們有設立這個新住民發展署把這個溝通橋樑制度化我想這個是一個對大家最好的一個設置所以"},{"start":2040.18,"end":2069.46,"text":"我們對於說多元族群治理的關鍵就是一句聽得懂的話勝過十張看不懂的公文這是我們在對於新住民好朋友我們是這樣的思考然後我們把新住民還有二代當作國家的長期的一個資產其實這跟國力跟世代正義都有很大的關聯性那我們希望說用這個方式因為我們有注意到其實二代常常都是有天然的雙語言他們就會兩種語言那也懂兩種文化其實他對我們"},{"start":2070.2,"end":2082.307,"text":"台灣在國際的競爭力上面其實是有非常非常大的幫助所以我們把這個賠利就業交流跟母語我們把它串成一條線來穩定整個這個國家的力量"},{"start":2084.773,"end":2108.28,"text":"我們希望說由一個組織來統籌把這些力量統籌在一起我想母語也是那種感情的競爭力你要留住這個語言留住國力也落實實現世代爭議我們讓新住民二代的小朋友出去不會因為身分被扣分反而因為他這個身分被大家更看得到更重用也幫台灣打開國際的"},{"start":2110.601,"end":2127.697,"text":"這個國際的對外的一個窗口謝謝各位那麥委員來了那我們就開始我們的會議繼續延續我們的會議那我們現在先請與會機關代表說明並請出席委員討論那首先我們請內政部說明"},{"start":2140.407,"end":2141.83,"text":"主席好 我們是針對內政部組織法還是整體第五條第一案 第五條"},{"start":2150.729,"end":2177.909,"text":"主席還有各位委員內政部目前對於第五條條文的內容的意見主要就是說我們在新住民發展署的相關業務的部分希望能夠用比較概括性的方式來說明也就是我們以新住民事務政策之規劃推動執行及協調來概括所有我們可以為新住民提供服務的內容比較不建議用"},{"start":2180.15,"end":2204.379,"text":"调列式而且更复杂的方式来呈现是因为第一个可能挂一漏万第二个就是说有一些工作可能会牵涉到不同部会之间的合作如果把它写在这里面的话会变成是到时候通通变成内政部这边单一在执行那比较不利于刚刚主席所提到就是跨部会之间的一个协调我想第五条的部分我们做这样的一个建议谢谢主席跟各位委员"},{"start":2216.649,"end":2223.616,"text":"跟各位報告因為麥委員有提一個修正動議那我們想先請麥委員就修正動議的部分加以說明"},{"start":2241.165,"end":2246.909,"text":"好 我們修正東藝這一邊的話我們是有後面就是"},{"start":2249.525,"end":2270.542,"text":"前 要前部念嗎第六 前部六項念還是最後修正的就念就好沒有 你就修正不用念就修正動議你的你提這個的意見是什麼跟大家說明就好我們這個意見就是說前這個四項討論修正後三個月實施希望三個月實施"},{"start":2271.961,"end":2294.698,"text":"好 了解 謝謝就是增訂一個實施日期的對 實施日期希望就是我們的內政部組織法第五條的條文修正動議的對照表最後一個就是第四項的款項與本條文修正公佈後三個月實行謝謝"},{"start":2297.145,"end":2325.396,"text":"好謝謝喔那我們現在審查排序第五條的部分那第五條的部分呢由委員鄭天才等21人提案民眾黨黨團提案張志倫等17人提案葉元之等21人提案羅美玲等18人提案以及麥玉珍委員剛所提的修正動議那我們剛也聽到了內政部的說明那請問各位委員就本條文的部分有沒有意見要提出好沖委員"},{"start":2327.333,"end":2345.26,"text":"剛剛內政部是說關於第五條的部分希望各位委員可以參採內政部的建議就是用事務兩個字來概括那因為很多的細節跟工作內容本來就是不可能全部在法案裡面寫也很擔心掛一漏萬所以我想民進黨團這邊應該就是支持內政部這個寫法就是以事務這兩個字來概括"},{"start":2349.182,"end":2376.996,"text":"至于麦委员刚提到的修正动议说希望在本条文修正公布后三个月实行这个我们其实也很想听听看内政部这边的意见因为之前我们在逐条协商的时候其实就有讨论关于这个实行时间那内政部来不来得及在这么多相关的规范还有要做的事务当中真的有可能在这个时间点以内完成吗这个也想要问一下内政部的意见以上谢谢"},{"start":2378.47,"end":2402.654,"text":"那不然是還是說羅委員先講完再請內政部一起回應好 羅委員OK好 針對於這個第五條的這個有關於新住民發展署的這個條文內容的部分其實我是支持那個內政部的這個建議我們不要把它寫得這麼細然後用一個事務來概括所有的這個事項我覺得彈性會比較大一點"},{"start":2403.254,"end":2425.685,"text":"那當然另外一個實施的這個日期的話我跟陳培宇委員一樣我也想聽一聽內政部這個如果說我不曉得你們有沒有辦法在三個月內來完成如果沒有辦法應該也要有一個說明為什麼到底你的困難點在哪裡也要讓我們知道OK 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝張委員"},{"start":2430.199,"end":2457.197,"text":"好谢谢主席今天排这样子的这个新住民发展署的设立相关内政部的条文我觉得非常重要那这边要请教的就是说因为本党的委员都有在其实跟内政部的条文其实内容差异不大只是我们第一个想说我们如果放全国新住民政策之规划如果放全国这两个字对内政部这边的看法是如何那其他内部细节的部分我们跟这个现在"},{"start":2458.218,"end":2476.806,"text":"現在這個法條跟內政部我們現在國民黨黨團的法條跟內政部是類似的那我們也想要了解說當然我們希望說這個新住民發展署的政策推行的是速度越快越好那請這個內政部這邊可以來簡單敘述一下你們大概要花多久時間 以上謝謝好那我們請內政部說明"},{"start":2483.349,"end":2502.967,"text":"主席委員我想第一個就是說有關於實施日期的部分因為在法體例上比較少見到這樣的立法的方式那我們還是建議就是說修正公佈後我們基本上就是尊重行政院跟總統公告法案我們就會去實施但是在實際上行政"},{"start":2504.815,"end":2526.306,"text":"規劃跟籌備的部分我們還是需要一段時間不過我們現在已經將這個草案送到行政院去審查了所以我想建議就是說這個三個月這個可能能不能保留讓我們來給個彈性但是我們最近一定會有新的進展這個在剛剛麥委員的提議上面先做這樣回應"},{"start":2526.986,"end":2552.446,"text":"那第二個就是說我們剛剛張委員提到有關於全國因為我們在之前的我們內政部其他的機關裡面目前只有警察跟消防是用全國這兩個字那其他的組織是沒有用到這兩個字所以在當時內政部的提案是沒有用全國因為這裡面可能還要尊重地方政府的差異所以這個部分也請主席跟各位參考謝謝"},{"start":2558.16,"end":2580.536,"text":"茂園謝謝主席為什麼要訂三個月呢不是說法沒有訂是我們的新住民基本法就是要訂讓我們行政院就是公佈實施日期但是到現在已經超過一年了對不對都沒有公佈還有說時間三個月已經一年超過"},{"start":2581.957,"end":2604.108,"text":"八月份現在超過兩個月了不是因為這個三個月是已經說一年內但現在已經超過兩個月了再給三個月快再給三個月就是等於是半年給你們了不是因為多給三個月不是所以是實施是這樣子所以我們才要說三個月以上報告 謝謝好 那"},{"start":2610.52,"end":2636.029,"text":"呃 那請問各委員齁 唉 好陳委員 唉 鍾委員好 那麼今天因為是有包括內政部的組織法跟新住民發展署的組織法那其實剛剛麥委員民眾黨的提案是希望說在發展署的組織法當中在改第七條本來是由行政院命令定之希望是能夠明確的在公佈後三個月內實施"},{"start":2636.829,"end":2663.849,"text":"那這樣的意見我想我們可以尊重我們待會委員會協調會的討論但是在那個內政部的組織法因為內政部的組織法的第五條它一共規範了六個署那特別在第二項針對第四款的發展署定說要在三個月後實施那其實主席也知道啦這個體力上因為已經在那個"},{"start":2665.393,"end":2685.768,"text":"發展署的組織法有訂了其實在內政部的組織法因為涉及到第五條涉及到六個署特別針對第四款的新住民發展署把它明訂要三個月其實呢其實一旦我們增加了這個就是說本來就有第四款嘛本來就有新住民發展署嘛"},{"start":2687.619,"end":2708.704,"text":"那这个内政部组织法修改后就已经适用了嘛那就适用了之后呢现在重点是到底新住民发展署什么时候它的组织法会施行那是在发展署的组织法去定回过头来再去对内政部组织法表明说的第五条第一项的第四款"},{"start":2709.344,"end":2722.952,"text":"要在三個月內實施體力上似乎並不需要兩個都做啦我是覺得說在發展署的那個地方去表達其實內政部組織活動其實不用在第五條另外表達以上好 謝謝那麥委員你知道那個中委員的意思嗎"},{"start":2731.022,"end":2746.273,"text":"我知道因為今天我們對內政部行政院長半分都不相信所以就是沒有明文規定的話都是口頭說的因為在我們協商的時候內政部長說"},{"start":2747.844,"end":2755.231,"text":"不要把就定時間一年內他百分之百會去執行現在一年內啊不用繳稅了隨便講我覺得我為什麼要明定是因為這樣子的一個邏輯因為內政部組織法是另外一個法"},{"start":2766.581,"end":2784.878,"text":"新住民发展署是组织法是另外一个法但是说我们是增加在内政部组织法里面增加增加就是再说多一个就是在第四就是新住民发展署这样子的意思但是我觉得说"},{"start":2786.243,"end":2808.942,"text":"只要只要他們就是卡一個就又說啊這個沒有這個沒有通過啊我沒有通過啊我這個內政部組織法裡面我不通過啊所以呢你就我對啊今天今天那個行政院長就說新住民基本法總統公告了他沒有沒有定時行日期啊到現在還沒有定啊對不對他還是沒有定啊"},{"start":2809.622,"end":2835.467,"text":"所以我觉得我要的就是说确认的时间确认的时程表确认我觉得真正的没有差嘛你们都说没有差嘛这个可以这个可以就是同样就一起定就好了对不对因为列入个法里面就不会有这样子的规定但是我们在修正这里的时候是有把它明定而已啊但是在法在执行里面也不会把这条放在"},{"start":2835.987,"end":2839.01,"text":"整體的內政部的組織法裡面也不會把這個因為其他部沒有列這個列在裡面也不會列在裡面是我們法裡面是要定這個時間讓我們內政部把這個法是真正的去執行而已我覺得這個是你們說其他都沒有但是這個有我覺得也是沒有什麼"},{"start":2863.151,"end":2885.781,"text":"對謝謝這條是真的有什麼這我看是保留啦 大家討論到這樣對 這個如果說大家有爭議的話我看就用保留的方式來處理好不然大家應該很難有共識嘛好 那這樣的話我們第五條的部分審查本條予以保留下一個"},{"start":2892.572,"end":2912.91,"text":"好 繼續審查第二案協商司法法治內政兩委員會報告並在審查台灣民眾黨黨團委員鄭天才等21人國民黨黨團委員張志文等17人委員岳炎之等21人及委員羅美玲等18人分別凝聚內政部新住民發展署組織法草案等6案"},{"start":2913.831,"end":2935.939,"text":"法案审查会逾14年6月30日审查完均审查结果1.名称第4条及第5条均照各提案通过2.第1条至第3条第6条第7条均保留送院会处理并决议院会讨论前需交由党团协商协商时请参阅协商条文对照表及审查报告"},{"start":2936.819,"end":2943.103,"text":"議會委員如有修正動議或機關有建議內容請提出書面一發現場進行討論現在先請議會機關代表說明並請出席委員討論我們首先請內政部說明"},{"start":2952.53,"end":2969.919,"text":"主席、各位委員內政部針對新住民發展署組織法草案保留條文的部分跟主席及各位委員做說明第一條有關於內政部新住民發展署的設置"},{"start":2972.405,"end":2991.966,"text":"這個部分內政部基本上有提供我們送交行政院院會審查的條文的版本那至於委員提案的部分我們就尊重委員提案這個是第一條的部分那第二條有關於新住民發展署掌理事項的內容"},{"start":2992.987,"end":3009.921,"text":"其中有關第一個在考試的部分因為是屬考試院的職權所以這個部分建議回歸考試院的職權來辦理那麼在內政部這邊如果列舉的話這個有跨院之間的職權的一個問題"},{"start":3012.683,"end":3038.111,"text":"那麼至於有關於社會福利相關的議題因為在國內不論是各族群都是由衛福部來統籌所以這個部分也建議這兩個議題在其他的部會跟院來做處理那麼在本法建議不予列入那麼第三條的部分由於在地政部其他的組織"},{"start":3040.703,"end":3058.245,"text":"以這個組織規模在100人左右的組織我們均配屬副主管一人所以目前的話內政部所提供的版本是署長一人職務列檢任第13職等副署長一人職務列檢任第12職等"},{"start":3059.426,"end":3076.294,"text":"那麼委員的提案有大部分有列舉副署長二人的部分那恐怕對內政部其他的單位在橫平性上面會有影響所以這部分我們也建議就是維持副署長一人以跟我們其他的單位做對齊"},{"start":3077.853,"end":3098.948,"text":"至於第六條的部分有關於這個本署之職稱各職稱之官等職等及員而另以編制表定制因為編制表上面會比較有彈性那在委員的提案裡面大部分都跟內政部的提案是一致的那麼其中有委員有提案有關於這個"},{"start":3100.79,"end":3122.391,"text":"禁用具有新住民身份者那這個部分內政部的建議是先不要列入因為新住民的身份目前我們的界定是在新住民的一代二代跟原住民的界定是很不一樣的所以在這個部分我們是建議不要列舉在這個地方以免影響到我們在國內憲法規定的人民服考試公職的權利"},{"start":3124.073,"end":3147.399,"text":"那至於第七條的部分本法實行日期由行政院定之那麼這部分有委員的提案我們也尊重委員提案我想以上的部分內政部的意見請主席及各委員參考謝謝好謝謝那我們首先先請蔓越中委員就第二條好那請問一下就第一條的部分"},{"start":3148.799,"end":3171.204,"text":"各位有没有意见要提出来我先补充一下本条提案人有台湾民众党党团提案委员郑天才等21人提案国民党党团提案委员张志伦等17人提案委员岳元之等21人提案委员罗美龄等18人提案那请问各位委员就刚内政部的说明有意见要提出好罗委员"},{"start":3172.734,"end":3192.429,"text":"有關於第一條的部分 其實剛剛內政部的說法其實是跟組織法第五條的概念其實是類似的我們每個委員的版本其實就是比較屬於條列式的方式然後內政部的方式其實就比較有彈性它是把所有的東西都包進來我是覺得彈性會比較大所以第一條的話基本上我們真的是可以參考內政部的意見"},{"start":3197.173,"end":3215.793,"text":"那第二條的部分呢其實在上次主條的時候我已經有提到了因為有很多版本有把這個國家考試的納入進來可是因為國家考試真的就是考試院的這個業務真的是放在這裡的話真的是比較不恰當這部分的話以上供各位委員來做這個參考以上謝謝莊委員"},{"start":3221.846,"end":3242.735,"text":"謝謝主席我想今天這樣的一個協商裡面有一些大家有共識的我覺得大家就沒意見我們就比較快對 第一條就按內政部的版本主席可以考慮一下那我把有意見的部分我就先提出來不浪費大家的時間這個我們在"},{"start":3245.532,"end":3249.215,"text":"社會保障委員會裡面其實大家也都在主條的時候也討論過我個人是這樣子啦對整個版本表達支持但是就是說有跌床駕屋的部分或者職權相互衝突打架的部分是不是請委員再考慮一下我個人倒有一個比較宏觀的看法就是說你針對於第二條第三款新住民國家考試規劃執行跟督導獎勵獎助這個部分"},{"start":3271.756,"end":3299.328,"text":"你本來在我們我也不談你去違不違憲的問題就是在我們的基本法第九條裡面就是說已經明文去規定說政府在國家考試設立新住民事務相關事務的時候你來因應新住民公務的一個需求院的部分我覺得對於我們整個新住民來講的話用考試院來舉辦的話是不是更宏觀也可以更去照顧到好像也比較少去看到"},{"start":3300.055,"end":3327.814,"text":"幾乎是沒有看到說在各部會裡面哪一個機關或者說一個三級機關他自己本身針對這一些考試的事項來做一個掌管其實也是在講說各個行政部門這一些有關於考試的事項其實都是在考試院裡面變成是他一個執掌的一個事項對於我們新住民部門你特別這樣弄出來我反而會覺得應該是"},{"start":3331.155,"end":3357.783,"text":"不夠慎重讓考試院一個更高的一個機關來做一個專責會不會更好 以上提供大家來做參考好 謝謝讓我跟郭委員先報告一下我們現在審查第一先審查第一條 主條來可能會比較聚焦那請問郭委員就內政部剛剛的說法還有沒有其他意見要提出對內政部剛剛的建議可以接受那是不是我們第一條的部分我們就"},{"start":3358.328,"end":3386.789,"text":"第一條採內政部的版本第二條還在討論第一條沒有 我們現在在第一條對 第一條好 那第一條的部分我們就照協商內容通過那就是內政部所提的條文版本大家有沒有意見好 那沒有的話就照協商內容通過好 那我們現在審查第二條第二條有台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員鄭天才21人提案國民黨黨團提案張志文等17人提案葉元之等21人提案"},{"start":3387.929,"end":3411.132,"text":"羅美玲等18人提案以及麥玉珍委員所提修正動議那我們是不是先請麥玉珍委員就修正動議的部分先說明麥委員就第二條您提的修正動議部分先請說明好第二條剛才才給大家大家可以看一下第二條有有有有這邊那個份就是對對"},{"start":3413.832,"end":3422.918,"text":"對 那份就是第二條的部分剛才就是我們內政部也有說就是說我們新住民國家考試這個部分呢事實上我們是依據我們新住民基本法裡面就是關於這個部分我們要怎麼樣去輔導他們培訓 他們就是要去考試"},{"start":3437.907,"end":3440.728,"text":"所以還有獎勵所以我在這邊我就把它改就不要說規劃執行了我是改的變成就是輔導培訓還有就是說在第8條第8條的部分我也改了就是本來我們是廣播電視但是我看其他委員也建議說媒體所以我在這邊我改我覺得媒體就包含比較大"},{"start":3465.115,"end":3471.181,"text":"這樣也很好第九條我們是有改了就是說新住民的工作權益保障還有就業的服務這個部分後面這個部分就是我們都有改是跟國民黨的是一致的就是有兩點是我們是不一樣後面改的是跟國民黨一致所以這個部分我們可能就是我們三黨在討論"},{"start":3491.218,"end":3519.941,"text":"看用哪个版本是比较好这样以上报告谢谢好谢谢张委员好谢谢主席我觉得这条相对重要因为这条是要罗列这个我们现在新住民发展署的这个所执掌的内容它涵盖的这个新住民的生活的各个面向那之前内政部的报告里面提到说你们现在就盘点了百项的业务那评估有四个业务单位那我还是要请内政部等一下会回答一下"},{"start":3520.501,"end":3536.221,"text":"这个百项你们百项业务有没有包含在四个我们现在讲的这个第二条的执掌里面那有没有一些是还没有的业务给他可以提出来那刚刚我们也提到麦委员也提到说那如果我们把这个国家考试的一个部分把它改成"},{"start":3539.524,"end":3558.463,"text":"這個輔導輔導培訓的部分你們有沒有辦法現在你們如果我們有提出來的話你們要怎麼去做來去鼓勵新住民來考試來扶公職有沒有辦法來做這樣的部分那也請你們簡單說明一下謝謝好那還有沒有委員要補充好沒有的話就麻煩內政部說明"},{"start":3570.84,"end":3588.357,"text":"主席各位好那麼謝謝剛剛蔓園跟張委員的意見那我想第一個就是有關於包括我們各黨團提案還有蔓園的修正動議裡面有關於國家考試的部分那蔓園的建議是改成輔導培訓督導及講助"},{"start":3592.06,"end":3607.563,"text":"那這個部分我們在目前我們在新住民新機關新增業務裡面總共有56項的新業務那這業務裡面包括了每年檢討我國新住民總體的支持事項"},{"start":3608.752,"end":3638.072,"text":"还有新住民的社福跟社会救助、就业服务、艺文发展、媒体经用权、多元文化发展、公共参与跟营造多国语言学习环境、国际合作以及其他的秘书业务。所以这56项业务里面,总体这14项里面事实上也包含刚刚所提到的,如果能够来协助新住民进入国家考试的系统的辅导培训、督导及讲助,其实是有涵盖的。"},{"start":3639.232,"end":3656.938,"text":"但是我们在组织法的部分要不要列进去这个跟我们的新增业务里面主要就是说能不能把它刚提到愿记的部分有关于我们跟考试院之间的差异我们还是能够把它厘清这是第一点"},{"start":3657.738,"end":3683.528,"text":"那第二点就是说对于刚刚张委员所提到的就是我们在目前新住民的组织里面我们总共有四个组那包括综合规划管理发展社福就业跟教育文化这四个组里面事实上也涵盖了我们现在在各个委员所定的版本里面的各项工作所以我们在内政部的版本里面我们把它浓缩成11个"},{"start":3684.428,"end":3691.716,"text":"也就是說參考委員的版本我們已經做了一些整理讓他能夠更精簡那這個是內政部的一個補充意見謝謝主席跟委員"},{"start":3693.322,"end":3716.808,"text":"好謝謝那張委員好謝謝內政部馬政次的講法那有沒有就是剛剛像麥議員有提到說輔導新住民的這個講座的輔導新住民參加國家考試然後講座的事宜現在是放在我們這個本署執掌下列事項的哪一點裡面是不是可以簡單說明一下"},{"start":3721.629,"end":3747.079,"text":"鮑偉我們是建議放在總體知識事項因為我們現在就是說國家考試四個字出現在法條裡面會比較跟考試院的執掌有所應該說院紀之間的執掌之間的漢格所以我們是建議說我們可以在未來的工作項目裡面把它列進去但是能不能不要在組織法裡面去訂國家考試四個字謝謝"},{"start":3751.226,"end":3751.966,"text":"好麥委員不清楚對因為因為我覺得對嘿"},{"start":3764.442,"end":3787.047,"text":"我先講 剛剛麥委員先開始講不好意思因為我覺得說我們現在目前目前我們早上我們黨團也開記者會說我們中華民國各種考試我們的還有就是我看一下各種考試含高等考試補考考試還有特種考試現在"},{"start":3792.901,"end":3813.408,"text":"跌到只有29萬所以之前是41萬現在今年跌到29萬多所以說我覺得新住民新住民的對象包含新二代還有包含就是僑生所以未來這樣子的考試在這邊輔導我覺得有必要因為我們不管來自哪裡我們不是土生土長"},{"start":3818.65,"end":3834.029,"text":"如果我们直接去考试是说有限的但是我们希望就是平等又没有说为了新住民要另外考试加分但是他们是可以有在这个法里面他们是明确的"},{"start":3834.73,"end":3838.553,"text":"讓民間團體跟政府說有新住民他們想要考這樣子的考試我們要來輔導鼓勵培訓他們讓他們考試更有機會我覺得是在這邊明確讓民間團體才知道但是你是一直統包統整真的是不是每一個人都那麼清楚只有政府機關才比較清楚而已所以我覺得是說"},{"start":3860.251,"end":3876.998,"text":"在這一條裡面還有第二個在我們新住民基本法裡面就是說國家考試類科要列入在我們的基本法裡面也有這一條所以我們是在這邊就是在組織法裡面細分是說有這樣子的一個輔導"},{"start":3878.639,"end":3881.701,"text":"一個讓他們可以更順利讓他們可以再有這個機會因為現在公職人員大家都不想要考所以我們是鼓勵不同的新二代他們進入這樣子的考試我覺得是我的用意希望是把它納入以上 謝謝"},{"start":3901.419,"end":3929.421,"text":"好 那羅委員好 我再補充一下那當然所有委員的這個意見我們都覺得都很有道理那剛剛聶政部有在提到就是說有關於新住民國家考試之輔導培訓督導跟這個講座其實是含在這個第二條第一項第二款的新住民總體支持事項之研擬定期調查跟檢討那麥委員剛剛有提到就是說這樣子看起來好像就是全部都包進來如果另外一個做法就是說把它放在"},{"start":3930.642,"end":3957.824,"text":"說明裡面呢如果提放那個說明裡面有沒有辦法呢這個部分就是把這一條其實他還是就是說因為你們覺得放在條文裡面覺得好像你們一直覺得不太適合好像跟國家考試跟考試院好像有一點點的那個我們想做區分那可是如果說我們把呃這個呢放在這個呃說明裡面很明確就是說其實我們就含了這個部分呢我不曉得麥委員的這個想法是如何OK好以上謝謝"},{"start":3960.475,"end":3989.183,"text":"好 那還有要補充的嗎好 那內政部這邊好 謝謝主席跟委員我想剛剛羅委員提到的意見我們可以接受因為主要就是說我們在第二款裡面對於新住民總體私持事項裡面我們會做定期的調查那定期調查就包含了新住民本身他在考試上面是不是有相對弱勢或是其他情況"},{"start":3990.143,"end":4015.455,"text":"那這個調查完之後事實上我們還會回到包括其他款裡面這裡面有包括第四款第五款等它都有一些不同的輔助措施但是我們希望說這些輔助措施它是一個總體性然後根據我們所謂的行政治理的方式去看實際的證據然後實際的趨勢來做這樣的一個回應那如果說把這樣的一個"},{"start":4016.215,"end":4037.151,"text":"文字剛剛麥委員修正動議的文字放到說明欄這個我們是覺得沒有問題但是國家考試如果出現在條文我們還是覺得比較不適合謝謝主席跟委員好那請問柯委員剛剛內政部的說明張委員剛剛那個應該看麥委員的想法寫在說明可不可以我再提別的可以嗎"},{"start":4038.072,"end":4052.521,"text":"第二有關我們先解決第一個問題就是說我們把它放在說明內政部這邊同意那麥委員就這部分還有沒有不同意見好沒問題好那我們就這樣去是好那好張委員"},{"start":4054.619,"end":4083.278,"text":"好谢谢主席那我们还有在讨论的就是说关于这个新住民的这个媒体新住民发版组在推动译文传播跟媒体金融权的部分那我们现在看到这个内政部的这个新住民发展组组织法的部分它是写在第八个它是写说补助跟奖励媒体事业制作新住民相关的内容那当然我相信本党跟很多委员我们在想的就是说是不是可以有这个新住民的这个"},{"start":4088.762,"end":4109.717,"text":"媒體台等等這個問題是不是可以把它明確定在我們的就是直接有沒有辦法新住民廣播電視之規劃培植輔導及發展是不是可以把它更明確不是只說補助大概以上 謝謝好 請問一下本條文大家還有沒有意見要提出來"},{"start":4112.52,"end":4115.221,"text":"好 請內政部回答剛剛張委員的意見主席 各位委員我想內政部這邊說明就是說因為我們目前依照基本法第17條政府是鼓勵各媒體事業來自播新著名語言文化等"},{"start":4138.371,"end":4155.812,"text":"那這個部分我們在保障媒體禁用權的部分一樣就是說未來內政部新住民發展署的角色他是以一個主管機關的角色來做督導那麼如果我們去成立這個所謂的媒體事業那可能是另外一個不同的議題"},{"start":4157.073,"end":4181.855,"text":"所以這個部分還是請委員考慮就是說如果是以這樣的一個媒體事業的這個角度的話可能比較不適合放在我們這個組織法那如果我們有需要成立媒體事業的話它可能會在文化部或是其他的部會裡面去成立這個專屬的這樣的一個電視或者是廣播電台我想這個是在政策上去另外再考量的所以我想這個部分請主席跟委員參考 謝謝好"},{"start":4194.5,"end":4212.488,"text":"好那第二條的部分我們就依照協商的內容通過那現在內容是內政部所提的條文但是我們同時要請內政部儘速將說明提出可以嗎還有其他要提出的好那麥委員再繼續說明"},{"start":4214.697,"end":4239.819,"text":"不好意思我們第二條還有我們的版本跟跟國民黨的版本是一樣的就是新住民工作權力保障及就業服務之規劃執行協調及督導還有第10條新住民社會福利之推動執行及協助事項還有第11條"},{"start":4241.64,"end":4262.213,"text":"新住民健康促進之規劃協調及推動第12條就是新住民公共參與法律諮詢之規劃協調及推動還有第13條就是其他有關新住民的事項這幾條就是我們可能要討論一下 謝謝好 那內政部這邊麻煩說明"},{"start":4271.229,"end":4293.686,"text":"主席還有麥委員跟各位委員那我想內政部這邊的版本裡面我們因為剛剛有跟各位委員報告我們是濃縮委員所提案的版本那麼在有關於工作權益保障跟就業服務的部分是在我們的第六款那第六款我念一下就是說新住民關懷協助及弱勢輔助與就業服務之規劃協調與推動"},{"start":4297.469,"end":4312.066,"text":"所以一樣就是說它涵蓋的範圍是比較廣泛性那這個部分因為工作權益保障這六個字如果把它放在這邊的話可能我們在法律的執行上它在組織法可能"},{"start":4312.946,"end":4330.573,"text":"我們會有困難因為工作權益保障這件事情它可能還牽涉到勞動基準法跟其他法令的主管所以這個可能在文字的落款上面還是請委員再考量那第二個是有關於新住民的社會福利以及健康促進的規劃"},{"start":4331.673,"end":4348.651,"text":"那這部分我們是暫時把它納在關懷協助的一個廣泛的一個範圍內主要的原因是如同剛才一開始跟各位報告就是因為社會福利跟健康促進相關的議題它是在衛福部主管"},{"start":4349.191,"end":4372.037,"text":"那麼它所主管的不僅包含新住民它包含的是全體國民所以以新住民作為國民的一份子這樣的一個角度回歸到衛福部的權責去辦理那這個會比較適合但是內政部不會置身事外我們會以新住民的角度去跟衛福部做協調那如果把它落款在這邊的話會變成是說到時候衛福部跟"},{"start":4372.897,"end":4400.418,"text":"內政部之間對於社會福利以及健康促進的工作上面它會有重疊的部分那麼至於剛剛麥委員所提到的有關於公共參與的部分這個在我們目前內政部版本的第九款裡面已經有提到新住民投入公共參與與多元文化之交流之規劃協調及推動我想這個部分就請委員放心已經在條文裡面落款以上補充說明請各位參考 謝謝"},{"start":4402.363,"end":4405.565,"text":"好謝謝那請問多委員還有沒有其他問題要提出主席我想要給麥委員討論看看麥委員我們想一想我知道你真的非常關心不管是健康促進公共參與考試工作權益可是因為他都會有跨部會的問題那我們有沒有什麼方法可以讓內政部的寫法"},{"start":4431.914,"end":4454.651,"text":"先用他們的寫法但是在您所關心的這些業務當中可以放進立法說明那讓各部會未來在做相關工作規劃的時候跨部會的討論其實還是回到跨部會的業務上那當然例如說如果您覺得勞動部的部分是關於就業的協助啦然後那個"},{"start":4455.956,"end":4472.827,"text":"健康促進他可能會跟衛福部有關然後讓他們有這個工作的方向因為基本上麥委員你聽我說因為你立了這個法他們新住民發展署就一定要做了所以你不用擔心說你寫了他們不會做我是建議主席我們是不是可以待會"},{"start":4474.068,"end":4488.512,"text":"如果這一條可以不要保留大家都有共識其實只是寫法的問題我們就可以中間休息一下然後讓內政部如何寫進立法說明裡頭然後又可以兼顧到麥委員所有關心麥委員跟羅委員最關心的新住民的權益這樣好不好謝謝好那就麥委員的意見呢"},{"start":4503.632,"end":4523.921,"text":"我們剛剛想出一個就是說如果把工作權益保障放在法條裡面其實太過僵硬那如果可以用立法說明的方式在本來內政部的條文裡面用立法說明的方式去補充內容或許會是一個比較好的方案"},{"start":4525.111,"end":4550.128,"text":"好我知道所以我們現在一個方法就是說如果大家有共識的話我們當然就繼續繼續接下來條文審查那我們可以請內政部趕快請他們的同仁趕快研擬那個說明第二個方式大家有沒有休息5分鐘然後協調一下讓然後來溝通請他們趕快做說明那個把說明補充好你們需要先休息5分鐘嗎"},{"start":4564.625,"end":4572.153,"text":"我不知道你們的意思你們對啊對啊所以我們可能速度速度要快"},{"start":4575.527,"end":4601.55,"text":"從此請他們準備言你好說明然後我們繼續走下面對我支持主席的裁定就是繼續走他們的立法說明繼續我們現在審查第三條第三條有台灣民眾黨黨團提案鄭天才等21人提案國民黨黨團提案張志倫17人提案葉元智等21人提案羅美瑩等18人提案請問這個部分內政部要做說明嗎第三條"},{"start":4603.941,"end":4626.737,"text":"主席各位我想非常感謝委員就是幫我們爭取兩位副署長不過因為實在是因為在內政部內部我們各署的這個職務平衡上面我們相對的大概在100人左右的這個機關我們都是以正副首長各一人為原則 謝謝跟各位報告就他們說一人一人就好了來是任總"},{"start":4629.967,"end":4650.684,"text":"跟各位報告 我們人總是贊成內政部的規劃跟委員提供一個資訊 這樣的規模的機關大概是設一個副首長我們最新成立的運動部的全民運動署它的規模也差不多100個人左右"},{"start":4651.425,"end":4677.653,"text":"那也是剩 副所長剩一個人所以我們是贊成內政部的規定會議時間有關係一人就這樣就好我們支持原版我們都怕沒人幫你倒三天你一人就一人 我沒差第三條的部分大家如果同意就是我們依據協商內容通過就協商內容為內政部他們所提供的條文大家有沒有不同意見"},{"start":4678.533,"end":4696.944,"text":"好那没有的话第三条就依照协商内容通过好我们现在审查第六条第二条台湾民众党党团提案郑天才等21人提案国民党党团提案张志文等17人提案叶元之等21人提案罗美龄等18人提案好我们先请内政部说明第六条"},{"start":4699.822,"end":4726.32,"text":"主席各位我想第六條內政部的立場就是說在我們的人員禁用部分我們還是尊重目前在人事法規上面我們有國民考試的一個平等權所以這個部分在鄭天才委員有提案優先禁用具有新住民身份者可能會跟現行的法律會有些漢格所以我們建議就是說我們還是以目前內政部的版本是以編制表定制但是回過頭來因為"},{"start":4727.601,"end":4742.72,"text":"我們在第二條的部分剛剛大家也有討論到我們對於未來新住民的朋友我們的國民在考試的部分我們會做一些輔導所以我們是希望透過這個方式來推動謝謝好 謝謝張委員剛剛我們討論過我們同意內政部的版本謝謝"},{"start":4743.601,"end":4771.614,"text":"好謝謝那第6條的部分呢我們就依據協商的內容通過那協商內容為內政部所提條文我們現在審查第7條第7條有台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員鄭天台等21人提案國民黨黨團提案委員張志文等17人提案葉元之等21人提案羅美玲等18人提案以及麥玉珍所提修正動議那我們先請內政部說明第7條的部分"},{"start":4774.564,"end":4785.451,"text":"主席 各位委員 我想內政部有提出建議版本但是我們這個部分就尊重委員的提案 謝謝好 謝謝 那麥委員麻煩你就修正動議的部分說明第七條"},{"start":4786.973,"end":4813.151,"text":"第七條 第七條就是一樣就是我堅持就是要三個月啦主席 那既然這個內政部主持法是相連應的條文是我就保留 好不好好 那這樣子第七條的部分 經過我們審查我們的結論是本條予以保留好 那現在我們回過來"},{"start":4817.553,"end":4831.556,"text":"第二條內政部這邊說明你好了嗎哪一個"},{"start":4905.063,"end":4926.8,"text":"好那我們現在宣告第一案內政部組織法第五條修正草案那因為沒有共識所以我們做如下宣告本日協商過程公開發言內容進行錄音錄影並列入記錄因人帶繼續溝通取得共識所以我們將依立法院執行新司法第十二條相關規定以請院長召開黨團協商會議進行協商"},{"start":4942.722,"end":4943.524,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5540.811,"end":5569.603,"text":"那我們就直接宣告好那我們請內政部先說明第二條立法說明部分"},{"start":5573.919,"end":5577.256,"text":"好不好麻烦内政部这边先说明一下"},{"start":5601.664,"end":5605.248,"text":"立法說明為什麼會有這個有關台灣民眾黨的修正動議所提麻煩說明"},{"start":5622.436,"end":5644.043,"text":"主席 各位委員 各單位先進內政部這邊針對新住民發展署組織法草案第二條的立法說明做修正如下有關新住民參加國家考試之輔導 培訓社會福利之推動 健康促進之規劃等事項"},{"start":5645.823,"end":5664.688,"text":"業餘內政部訂定之新住民照顧服務措施明訂八大重點工作列入具體措施並定期檢討修正協商參考條文第二條第四款亦為落實新住民基本法第十條明訂新住民服務措施之規劃協調及推動以上"},{"start":5668.015,"end":5675.361,"text":"好 謝謝 那請問麥委員就立法 那個內政部所提出來的立法說明 那麥委員這邊能不能夠接受"},{"start":6006.226,"end":6010.712,"text":"我們請內政部在就第二條立法說明的部分再說明一次"},{"start":6018.812,"end":6040.364,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位賢警我們在內政部針對新住民發展署組織法草案第二條立法說明修正如下有關新住民參加國家考試之輔導、培訓、社會福利之推動、健康促進之規劃等事項業於內政部訂定之新住民照顧服務措施"},{"start":6041.044,"end":6068.593,"text":"明定八大工作重点列入具体措施并定期检讨修正以落实新住民基本法第十条明定新住民服务措施之规划协调及推动以上 谢谢好 谢谢 请问这可以接受吗好那我们协商结果如下"},{"start":6070.39,"end":6087.042,"text":"相結果第一條至第三條及第六條按照協商內容通過降入附件第七條保留送用會處理那其按照審查會審查結果通過好那第二案的部分"},{"start":6088.96,"end":6117.419,"text":"本日協商過程公開發言內容均以錄音錄影並列入記錄過程中有共識部分將作為後來將作為後續協商依據後續立法院執行薪資法第12章相關規定處理好那今天的會議就到此結束好謝謝各位散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}