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請部長及兩位署長"},{"start":34.878,"end":57.637,"text":"中委好部長好今天我的題目呢防晶片疏中法規要趕快補漏競速遏止擴大水位集聚來符合水資源的順位來我先請教部長晶片的用途很多元武器也是嘛對不對對那現在成熟製程的晶片說一般導彈無人載具各式武器那高階的先進晶片可以用在精準導彈超級電腦跟傳統管制哪一種需要管制"},{"start":58.657,"end":85.853,"text":"現在只要用這個武器的部分基本上所以這兩種不管是高階先進的還是成熟製程的都應該進行流向管制對不對對所以我們現在有那個實體清單只要這個實體清單跟對岸的有軍事用途有關的我們會放到實體清單裡面不只這樣子喔有沒有看到這個新聞今年3月的時候美超為內鬼走私揮打晶片對不對是的那鬧得很大上週已經開始那個地檢已經開始跟他們起訴了"},{"start":86.613,"end":101.335,"text":"那麼他們是違反了美國進出口管制條例EAR那麼目的要限制中國取得先進晶片而且據說這也是美方提供情資那我們的人再去抓人是這樣嗎詳細的是不是請署長"},{"start":103.032,"end":118.53,"text":"報告委員好 事實上我們跟美方持續在有持續在針對相關的管制有在合作所以根據美方的EAR他提供情資我們台灣就抓人但是在去年我們看到台灣據報導台灣對華為和中興實質技術出口管制"},{"start":124.196,"end":134.429,"text":"是針對這兩家公司啊請問美超委的內軌轉賣輝達的產品是透過第三國東南亞到中國哪個公司是華為嗎 是中興嗎部長 是不是這兩家"},{"start":137.163,"end":162.896,"text":"應該不是 應該不是 來部長請部長講喔如果說美國的ERR賣到中國就不行那我們台灣居然只限定不能賣給華為跟中興這樣對嗎報告委員他現在我們當然跟美方齁有持續的在溝通看看怎麼樣做我是說美方說只要賣到中國的有軍事用途的高階的就不行但是台灣自己"},{"start":163.596,"end":191.77,"text":"自己要求自己的高科技管制只限定不能到華為跟中興會不會不夠啊我們會跟美方有一個討論我們自己要不要要求啊會 我先問一下我們為什麼要制裁這些國家中國 北韓 伊朗 伊拉克 敘利亞 蘇丹為什麼我們對這些國家要進行戰略性高科技物品的管制清單包括軍商兩用的 包括一般軍用的軍事武器用途的是不是 你說的管制安全是幹嘛那為什麼我們要對這幾個國家下手"},{"start":194.558,"end":212.227,"text":"對 因為他可能會用到軍事用途不是啦 是因為這幾個國家美國都制裁啦我們是跟著美國去制裁的 對不對這幾個國家就是因為恐攻跟美國在很多地區掀起了軍事對抗所以美國制裁他所以我們也跟著制裁 對不對"},{"start":213.983,"end":242.882,"text":"我們現在還是針對這個瓦森納協定相關的規範有一些規範美方我們是配合他有跟他互相的溝通那因為他如果這個廠商在台灣如果違反了美國法令我們會跟美方做一些溝通所以其實很清楚今天民主同盟這個不是隨便說說嘛台灣跟美日這些民主同盟我們對這些有敵意的軍事威脅的國家我們都一起同步同作嘛對不對好往下看"},{"start":243.963,"end":266.608,"text":"但是目前在我們自己國家 我們所謂的戰略性高科技貨品附中只有12項貨品受限 包括半導體 製造設備那其他的呢 戰略性的是適用非管制地域的規定為什麼 為什麼我們只有這12項不像美國或其他國家清的那麼長什麼原因 時空背景是什麼"},{"start":268.44,"end":287.552,"text":"報告委員我們還是回歸到那個瓦斯納協定這個部分有軍事用途那這12項是瓦斯納協定嗎12項半導體的晶圓製造設備是嗎報告委員當初這12項是因為我們為了保持在比如說我們對中國投資那我們需要維持我們的競爭優勢沒有錯啦"},{"start":289.431,"end":316.479,"text":"部長 劉組長說出來了啦早年在半導體晶圓我們是既競爭又合作我們跟中國是台廠到中國設廠組裝台灣的晶片圈圈組裝好了賣到美國去 賣到美國市場但是我們不希望中國能夠有先進晶圓的製造技術所以晶圓的製造設備是限制到中國的但是晶片沒有嘛因為晶片到那邊台廠裝好了就賣美國嘛 是不是這樣子"},{"start":317.341,"end":345.836,"text":"因為我們之前主要是限制去那邊做投資啦對啦 我的意思是說過去啊過去在國際分工上台灣跟中央和美國 美國是市場但是台灣的產業到中國設立以後便便便便我們的晶片到那邊組裝好之後賣到美國市場但是我們不讓中國取得高階晶片的製造技術嘛這是我們跟他競爭觀那現在不一樣了嘛現在全世界除了那幾個國家之外對台灣最有敵意的是不是中國"},{"start":347.537,"end":373.622,"text":"是嘛好那我們看一看所以這個問題要改來我們看下一頁有沒有把中國列為晶片的輸出管制區貿易法第27條27條之二如果是27條違法輸往管制區的要5年以下有期徒刑但是如果27條之二違法輸往未管制地區的是300萬華環請問一個刑事罰一個刑事罰中國現在我們晶片是屬於到中國是管制區還是未管制區說明一下"},{"start":376.002,"end":402.762,"text":"目前不是管制區對嘛 部長有沒有看到很嚴重有沒有很嚴重美國都對我們美超為內鬼私下把揮打的晶片弄到中國去就要求我們配合制裁配合處罰我們自己對我們的晶片往中國是非管制區欸報告委員我們揮打這件事情來講的話也不是美方制裁而已因為他也圍繞我們自己的法律規定沒有刑責嘛"},{"start":404.964,"end":425.945,"text":"哪一個有刑責 署長剛剛說非管制區沒有刑責嘛我不是說那個案子 我說現在的晶片有沒有列入管制目前沒有 沒有的就是請看沒有結果就是民團說要求旁邊的劉署長下台啦要求我們張明斌以前的投資臺灣公司下台啦部長你覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":427.305,"end":450.063,"text":"滿意嗎沒有 我是說因為我們跟美方之間我現在不是問美方對中國對台灣最不友善你對中國沒有任何的管制嗎我們會開始著手開始不夠啦現在人要你署長下台了啦你怎麼處置我們就是會開始著手怎麼做 你是要修改現在的法律規定還是另訂專門法律會修改相關的法律什麼時候修改"},{"start":451.443,"end":470.59,"text":"現在已經在...在那個...什麼時候可以給本席看?可以給委員會看?因為8號委員...還是等劉書長下台的時候還可以看?沒有沒有,因為這個事情的話我們還要跟行政院跟國安單位...太慢了吧!部長,我要說的是說過去台灣的法令跟美國有落差是因為我們過去台灣跟中國之間有一個合作競爭的關係"},{"start":472.01,"end":482.663,"text":"現在他是全世界的公敵 天下圍攻美國要制裁 台灣跟進但是台灣自己的法律還把晶片輸到中國 把中國列為非管制區馬上改 可以嗎"},{"start":484.619,"end":506.859,"text":"可以嗎 馬上改報告委員 經濟部是執行機關 那個規定是誰的是主管機關 是嘛 那你還說是執行機關 那本市議案來改好不好但是涉及國安的部分 涉及國安立法院不能提喔可以可以 是嘛 在立法院民運黨的國安天只有民眾黨跟國民黨啦 不是你經濟部啦"},{"start":508.032,"end":528.749,"text":"好 我們看一下下一題 台水公司連年虧損來 氣候變遷 漏水率太高 暫時造成了成本大漲 什麼原因 部長因為這個水價已經 應該30年了 幾十年沒有了你認為水價太低對不對 說得好 我們就要看來 台水公司的建設誰出錢 水利署你們花了多少錢"},{"start":530.106,"end":551.863,"text":"水智能開發給社會維護機會都是供自來水的嘛我念給你聽啊 浮流水開發23億多啦無自來水低於18億多啦 降低漏水13億多啦13億了 總共52.5億 公務預算對不對部長 這不是水工資支出的他有分成兩個部分喔我知道 我覺得是公務預算嘛那為什麼不是水工支出 因為水費太低嘛 你剛剛自己講了嘛"},{"start":552.847,"end":582.167,"text":"是不是 就水費太低沒有錢投資嘛往下看來 為什麼自來水法59條要怎樣 計算公式詳細細目最高段的水單價太低嘛有沒有二條了耗水費的徵收辦法第三條115年度水資源作業基金耗水費的收入可以收多少7.2億 收太少了嘛公務預算支出了五十幾億我們的耗水費只收了7.2億部長 怎麼解決還有 水利法第15條水權有沒有要付費"},{"start":584.142,"end":608.897,"text":"現在水權我們沒有在收費啊對 我想我們未來還是說因為基層哪一個先改水權要收水費先還是耗水費提高先還是把自來水法當中的最高段水價單價提高哪一個先做我覺得基層民眾的部分那個我們保障最高段的水單價開低沒有跟基層民眾有關哪一個要先做我覺得那個部分可以先做好 什麼時候做"},{"start":610.151,"end":617.377,"text":"我們即刻來規劃 規劃水公司誰管 國營司來 什麼都可以做了 我們一下看"},{"start":619.006,"end":646.014,"text":"來 仔細聽好 水資源是必需品水價要劫富濟貧根據我們水利法第18條用水的標的民生用水優先人口最多 它是需求必需品再來是農業生產 才是工業用水工業用水又有分能夠出口 有競爭力 能賺錢的這個就是高外匯收入是不是經濟部先救高外匯盈利收入的工業大戶的大用水戶他不需要補貼嘛"},{"start":647.094,"end":675.492,"text":"是不是提高他的單價我說我剛剛提到我們先從這個部分來做規劃好馬上就做那我們要看到明年我們自來水公司收的水費不要還是虧損累累都還要靠公務預算支出用人民的稅金來補貼可以嗎因為我們也鼓勵這些所謂的高耗水的大戶他可以節能或循環使用是沒有錯他都在做了但是再生水目前是誰投資做的經濟部嘛"},{"start":677.501,"end":696.802,"text":"我們經濟部也有 內政部也有他們這個再生水是誰在用大部分都是這些科技公司剛剛就說了嘛 這些能夠有外銷有競爭能力的 有創會能力的他可以成本可以轉嫁的他們用股票 他們用再生水結果還是政府投資啊"},{"start":699.074,"end":724.805,"text":"不過他們付出的水價是比較高的當然要付的比較高啊 他們可以轉價啊一個金麵麵可以賣好幾千好幾萬美金 為什麼不可能轉價但是我們一般的民生 小店家 家庭用水水價提高它就是生活的成本這個我們認為國家補貼 應該的但是對這些大用水戶 尤其是特別具有移轉成本能力的 這些創位能力的是不是要他趕快來下手"},{"start":725.385,"end":750.217,"text":"對,我剛剛提到了,我們會先從...好,那什麼時候可以給本席一個答覆?你們什麼時候開始做?最後,有沒有?規劃看看...我們大概兩個月時間好不好?兩個月,那之前前面那一題我們對於書中的晶片管制的法規修改,什麼時候可以做?欸,那個我還是講,我們還是要跟國安單位討論一下那如果本席提案你會不會支持?立法院提案你會不會支持?"},{"start":751.841,"end":768.687,"text":"基本上我們只能尊重啊尊重好那就這樣主席站起來了我相信主席也不會反對那我們就希望書中的晶片管制我們的貿易法第27條27條之二趕快的著手修改我們本院會提案謝謝謝謝鍾嘉斌委員謝謝部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:52:25+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:52:35.058500+08:00","text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴及媒體記者女士先生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:52:35.058500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:52:45.117000+08:00","text":"有請我們經濟部龔部長及國貿署的劉署長，也請水利署林署長準備。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T10:52:45.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:52:45.517000+08:00","text":"好，請部長及兩位署長，謝謝。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:00.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:00.218000+08:00","text":"鍾委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:00.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:01.079000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:01.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:08.165000+08:00","text":"今天我的題目是「防晶片輸中法規補漏盡速遏止、擴大水費級距以符水資源順位」。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:08.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:13.289000+08:00","text":"我先請教部長，晶片的用途很多元，武器也是嘛，對不對？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:13.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:22.617000+08:00","text":"現在成熟製程的晶片用於一般導彈、無人載具及各式武器，而高階先進晶片可用於精準導彈、超級電腦及戰場管理，哪一種需要管制？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:23.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:25.598000+08:00","text":"現在只要用在武器的部分，基本上都是管制的。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:25.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:31.222000+08:00","text":"所以這兩種不管是高階先進的或是成熟製程的，都應該進行流向管制，對不對？對。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:31.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:40.247000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在有實體清單，只要這個實體清單與對岸軍事用途有關的，我們會列到實體清單裡。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:40.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:41.087000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，不只這樣子喔！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:41.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:53:46.550000+08:00","text":"有沒有看到這則新聞，有關今年3月的時候，美超微內鬼走私輝達晶片，對不對？是的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:53:46.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:04.432000+08:00","text":"這件鬧得很大，上週地檢已經開始對他們起訴了，他們是違反了美國進出口管制條例（EAR），目的要限制中國取得先進晶片，而且據說這也是美方提供情資，我們的人再去抓人，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:04.432000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:05.432000+08:00","text":"有關細節的部分，我請署長說明。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"劉署長威亷","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:05.432000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:06.432000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:04.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:05.995000+08:00","text":"簡單講是不是這樣子？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"劉署長威亷","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:12.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:13.298000+08:00","text":"我們跟美方持續在……合作。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉署長威亷","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:13.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:15.981000+08:00","text":"有持續針對相關的管制有在合作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:16.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:30.378000+08:00","text":"所以根據美方EAR提供的情資，我們臺灣就抓人，但是我們看到在去年，據報導，臺灣對華為和中芯實施技術出口管制，只針對這兩家公司。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:31.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:36.205000+08:00","text":"請問美超微的內鬼轉賣輝達的產品，透過第三國東南亞到中國，是哪間公司？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:36.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:37.586000+08:00","text":"是華為嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:37.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:37.887000+08:00","text":"是中芯嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:37.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:39.409000+08:00","text":"部長，是不是這兩家？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉署長威亷","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:42.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:42.303000+08:00","text":"應該不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:42.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:42.883000+08:00","text":"應該不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:44.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:44.444000+08:00","text":"我要請部長講。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:45.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:54:53.629000+08:00","text":"如果美國EAR規定，賣到中國就不行，我們臺灣居然只限定不能賣給華為跟中芯，這樣對嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:54:53.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:01.072000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們當然跟美方有持續在溝通看看怎麼樣做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:02.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:13.539000+08:00","text":"美方說只要賣到中國的，有軍事用途的、高階的就不行，但是臺灣要求自己的高科技管制只限定不能到華為跟中芯，會不會不夠？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:15.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:17.220000+08:00","text":"我們會跟美方有一個討論，看怎麼樣……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:17.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:18.701000+08:00","text":"我們自己要不要要求啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:18.701000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:19.701000+08:00","text":"會，會要求。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:19.701000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:20.701000+08:00","text":"看怎麼樣在技術上跟美方合作……會嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:20.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:22.263000+08:00","text":"來，我先問一下，我們為什麼要制裁這些國家？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:22.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:29.647000+08:00","text":"包括中國、北韓、伊朗、伊拉克、敘利亞、蘇丹，為什麼我們對這些國家要進行戰略性高科技物品的管制清單？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:29.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:34.349000+08:00","text":"包括軍商兩用的、一般軍用、軍事武器用途的，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:34.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:35.610000+08:00","text":"你說的管制清單是這個嘛！對。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:36.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:36.750000+08:00","text":"為什麼我們要對這幾個國家下手？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:39.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:41.639000+08:00","text":"因為他可能會用到軍事用途……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:41.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:42.119000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:42.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:48.543000+08:00","text":"是因為這幾個國家都被美國制裁，我們是跟著美國去制裁的，對不對？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:48.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:55:57.227000+08:00","text":"這幾個國家就是因為恐攻，跟美國在很多地區掀起了軍事對抗，美國制裁他們，所以我們也跟著制裁，對不對？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:55:58.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:56:05.668000+08:00","text":"我們現在還是針對瓦聖納協定相關規定來做一些規範。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:56:06.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:56:14.794000+08:00","text":"而我們是配合美方，有跟他們互相溝通，因為這個廠商在臺灣，如果違反了美國法令，我們會跟美方做一些溝通。是嘛！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:56:15.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:56:27.582000+08:00","text":"所以其實很清楚，今天民主同盟不是隨便說說，臺灣跟美日這些民主同盟，我們對於這些有敵意軍事威脅的國家，我們都會一起同步動作，對不對？會。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:56:29.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:56:47.387000+08:00","text":"目前在我們自己國家所謂的戰略性高科技貨品赴中，只有12項貨品受限，包括半導體及製造設備，其他戰略性的貨品是適用非管制地區的規定，為什麼我們只有這12項？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:56:47.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:56:50.928000+08:00","text":"不像美國或其他國家清單那麼長，什麼原因？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:56:51.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:56:51.608000+08:00","text":"時空背景是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:56:53.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:56:58.083000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們還是回歸到瓦聖納協定的這個部分，有軍事用途……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:56:59.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:57:02.166000+08:00","text":"這12項是瓦聖納協定嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:57:02.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:57:04.227000+08:00","text":"12項半導體的晶圓製造設備，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉署長威亷","start":"2026-06-17T10:57:04.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:57:11.972000+08:00","text":"報告委員，當初這12項是因為我們為了保持……比如對中國投資，我們需要維持我們的競爭優勢，是配合……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:57:11.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:57:12.532000+08:00","text":"沒有錯啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:57:14.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:57:37.898000+08:00","text":"部長，劉署長說出來了，早年在半導體晶圓，我們是既競爭又合作，我們跟中國是臺廠到中國設廠組裝，臺灣晶片組裝好了，再賣到美國去、賣到美國市場，但是我們不希望中國能夠有先進晶圓的製造技術，所以晶圓的製造設備是限制到中國的，但是晶片沒有嘛！","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:57:38.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:57:41.459000+08:00","text":"因為晶片到那邊臺廠裝好了，就賣美國嘛，是不是這樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:57:42.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:57:47.544000+08:00","text":"因為我們之前主要是限制去那邊做投資，相關設備……對啦！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:57:47.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:06.274000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，過去在國際分工上，臺灣、中國和美國，美國是市場，但是臺灣產業到中國設廠，利用他們便宜的勞動力，我們晶片到那邊組裝好了之後，再賣到美國市場，但是我們不讓中國取得高階晶片的製造技術，這是我們跟他們競爭關係，現在不一樣了嘛！","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:07.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:12.677000+08:00","text":"現在全世界除了那幾個國家之外，對臺灣最有敵意的是不是中國？是。是嘛！","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:12.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:14.617000+08:00","text":"好，我們看一看，所以這個問題要改。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:16.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:19.258000+08:00","text":"有沒有把中國列為晶片的輸出管制區？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:19.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:32.021000+08:00","text":"貿易法第二十七條、第二十七條之二，如果是違反第二十七條違法輸往管制區的，處5年以下有期徒刑，但是如果違反第二十七條之二，違法輸往未管制地區的是處300萬元的罰鍰。","quality":0.648},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:32.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:38.382000+08:00","text":"請問一個刑事處罰，一個行政罰，現在我們晶片輸送到中國，是屬於管制區還是未管制區？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:38.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:38.602000+08:00","text":"請署長說明一下。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"劉署長威亷","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:41.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:42.643000+08:00","text":"目前不是管制區。對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:43.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:44.425000+08:00","text":"部長，有沒有看到很嚴重？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:45.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:58:45.766000+08:00","text":"有沒有很嚴重？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:58:47.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:00.457000+08:00","text":"美國對美超微內鬼私下把輝達的晶片弄到中國去，就要求我們配合制裁、配合處罰，我們自己對我們的晶片往中國是非管制區……","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:00.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:05.461000+08:00","text":"報告委員，針對輝達這件事情來講，也不是美方制裁而已，因為他也違反相關……","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:05.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:07.742000+08:00","text":"我知道，我們自己的法律規定沒有刑責嘛！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:07.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:09.964000+08:00","text":"有，他這一件……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:09.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:11.065000+08:00","text":"哪一個有刑責？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:11.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:13.528000+08:00","text":"署長剛剛說非管制區沒有刑責嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:13.528000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:14.528000+08:00","text":"剛剛那個案子，因為他……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:13.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:18.733000+08:00","text":"我不是說那個案子，我說現在的晶片，有沒有列入管制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:19.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:20.335000+08:00","text":"目前沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:21.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:21.536000+08:00","text":"目前沒有，就是沒有。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:22.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:26.120000+08:00","text":"請看，沒有的結果就是民團說，要求站你旁邊的劉署長下臺啦！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:26.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:29.884000+08:00","text":"要求以前投審會張銘斌下臺啦！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:30.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:33.366000+08:00","text":"部長，你覺得怎麼樣，滿意嗎？沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:33.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:35.888000+08:00","text":"我是說，因為我們跟美方之間都有持續在溝通……","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:35.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:41.332000+08:00","text":"我現在不是問美方，中國對臺灣最不友善，你對中國沒有任何的管制嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:41.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:42.573000+08:00","text":"我們會開始著手跟美方……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:43.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:43.794000+08:00","text":"開始不夠啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:44.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:46.296000+08:00","text":"現在人家要你們的署長下臺了，你怎麼處置？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:48.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:49.459000+08:00","text":"我們就是會開始著手剛剛提到的……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:49.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:49.799000+08:00","text":"怎麼做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:50.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:51.360000+08:00","text":"你是要修改相關的法律規定？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:51.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:52.481000+08:00","text":"還是另訂專門法律？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:53.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:54.643000+08:00","text":"會修改相關的法律。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:54.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:55.043000+08:00","text":"什麼時候修改？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:56.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:57.964000+08:00","text":"現在已經在那個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T10:59:57.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T10:59:59.524000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以給本席看，可以給委員會看？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:00.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:00.464000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:00.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:02.325000+08:00","text":"還是等劉署長下臺了才給看？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:02.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:05.886000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，因為這個事情我們還要跟行政院及國安單位做些討論。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:06.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:06.647000+08:00","text":"太慢了啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:07.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:27.663000+08:00","text":"部長，我要說的是，過去臺灣的法令跟美國有落差，是因為過去臺灣跟中國之間有一個合作競爭的關係，現在他是全世界的公敵，天下圍攻，美國要制裁，臺灣跟進，但是臺灣自己的法律還把晶片輸到中國，把中國列為非管制區，馬上改，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:29.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:30.019000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:30.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:30.240000+08:00","text":"馬上改！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:30.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:35.584000+08:00","text":"報告委員，經濟部是執行機關啦，因為這個是……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:35.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:36.245000+08:00","text":"那個規定是誰的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:36.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:37.666000+08:00","text":"是主管機關沒有錯……是嘛！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:38.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:39.308000+08:00","text":"你還說你們是執行機關！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:39.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:41.029000+08:00","text":"本席提案來改，好不好？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:41.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:43.312000+08:00","text":"但是涉及國安的部分，我們還是……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:43.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:44.853000+08:00","text":"涉及國安，立法院不能提喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:45.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:45.794000+08:00","text":"可以、可以，我們尊重。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:46.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:00:51.839000+08:00","text":"在立法院，擋民進黨國安法案的只有民眾黨跟國民黨啦，不是你經濟部啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:00:53.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:00.698000+08:00","text":"我們來看下一題，台水公司連年虧損，是氣候變遷、漏水率太高還是戰事造成成本大漲？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:00.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:01.019000+08:00","text":"請問部長，什麼原因？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:03.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:06.964000+08:00","text":"因為這個水價已經三十年還是幾十年沒有調整了。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:07.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:08.305000+08:00","text":"你認為水價太低，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:08.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:08.405000+08:00","text":"說得好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:10.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:12.969000+08:00","text":"台水公司的建設誰出錢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:12.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:13.749000+08:00","text":"水利署，你們花了多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:15.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:17.628000+08:00","text":"水資源開發及維護建設經費都是要供應自來水的嘛！","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:18.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:26.855000+08:00","text":"我唸給你聽，伏流水開發工程二十三億多、無自來水地區供水改善計畫十八億多、降低漏水率計畫13億，總共約55.2億，是公務預算，對不對？","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:26.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:29.077000+08:00","text":"部長，這是不是水公司支出的？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:29.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:30.738000+08:00","text":"他有分成兩個部分，原水的部分……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:30.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:32.559000+08:00","text":"我知道，我知道，這是公務預算嘛！對……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:33.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:34.701000+08:00","text":"為什麼不是水公司出？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:35.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:36.082000+08:00","text":"因為水費太低嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:36.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:37.987000+08:00","text":"你剛剛自己講了嘛，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:38.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:39.708000+08:00","text":"就水費太低，沒有錢投資嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:39.708000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:40.708000+08:00","text":"對，我們用……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:40.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:43.111000+08:00","text":"往下看，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:43.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:50.075000+08:00","text":"自來水法第五十九條規定其計算公式及詳細細目，最高段的水單價太低嘛，有沒有要調整？","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:50.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:56.600000+08:00","text":"耗水費徵收辦法第三條，115年度水資源作業基金耗水費的收入預算是多少？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:57.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:01:58.481000+08:00","text":"7.2億，收太少了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:01:58.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:04.485000+08:00","text":"公務預算支出了五十幾億，我們的耗水費只收了7.2億，部長，怎麼解決？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:04.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:07.167000+08:00","text":"還有水利法第十五條的水權，有沒有要付費？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:09.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:10.143000+08:00","text":"現在水權我們沒有在收費啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:11.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:15.506000+08:00","text":"對，我想我們未來還是說……因為基層……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:15.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:15.946000+08:00","text":"哪一個先改？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:16.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:23.190000+08:00","text":"水權要收水費先，還是耗水費提高先，還是把自來水法當中的最高段水單價提高？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:23.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:23.971000+08:00","text":"哪一個先做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:24.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:27.373000+08:00","text":"我覺得對於基層民眾的部分我們保障……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:27.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:30.935000+08:00","text":"最高段的水單價太低，沒有跟基層民眾有關啊！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:30.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:31.795000+08:00","text":"哪一個要先做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:32.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:33.276000+08:00","text":"對，我覺得那個部分可以先處理。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:33.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:33.877000+08:00","text":"好，什麼時候做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:35.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:38.554000+08:00","text":"我們即刻來規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:38.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:38.554000+08:00","text":"好，即刻喔！規劃。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:38.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:39.174000+08:00","text":"水公司誰管？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:39.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:02:39.915000+08:00","text":"國營司？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:02:44.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:13.515000+08:00","text":"來，仔細聽好，水資源是必需品，水價要劫富濟貧，根據水利法第十八條用水標的之順序，民生用水優先，人口最多，它是需求必需品，再來是農業生產，之後才是工業用水，工業用水又分能夠出口、有競爭力、能賺錢的，這個就是高外匯收入，是不是經濟部先針對高外匯營利收入的工業大用水戶來做，他不需要補貼嘛，是不是提高他的單價？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:13.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:16.017000+08:00","text":"我剛剛提到，我們先從這個部分來做規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:16.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:27.223000+08:00","text":"好，馬上就做，我們要看到明年自來水公司收的水費不要還是虧損累累，還要靠公務預算支出，用人民的稅金來補貼，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:27.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:31.806000+08:00","text":"因為我們也鼓勵這些所謂的高耗水大戶可以節能或循環使用，這個我們是鼓勵……","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:32.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:38.090000+08:00","text":"是，沒有錯，他都在做了，但是再生水目前是誰投資做的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:40.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:40.472000+08:00","text":"經濟部嘛，是不是？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:42.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:44.523000+08:00","text":"我們經濟部有，內政部也有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:45.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:46.906000+08:00","text":"對啦，這個再生水是誰在用？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:47.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:03:50.690000+08:00","text":"大部分都是這些科技公司。是嘛！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:03:50.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:01.782000+08:00","text":"剛剛就說了嘛，這些能夠有外銷、有競爭能力的、有創匯能力的、成本可以轉嫁的，鼓勵他們用再生水，結果還是政府投資啊！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:01.782000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:04.074000+08:00","text":"部長，有沒有覺得這樣不符合公平正義？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:04.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:06.695000+08:00","text":"不過他們付出的水價是比較高的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:06.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:12.558000+08:00","text":"當然要付比較高啊，他們可以轉嫁啊，一個晶片可以賣好幾千、好幾萬美金，為什麼不可能轉嫁？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:12.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:29.785000+08:00","text":"但是我們一般的民生小店家、家庭用水，水價提高，就是生活的成本，這個我們認為國家補貼應該的，但是對這些大用水戶，尤其是特別具有移轉成本能力的，這些有創匯能力的，是不是要趕快來下手？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:30.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:31.866000+08:00","text":"對，我剛剛提到，我們會先從這個部分來規劃。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:31.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:33.286000+08:00","text":"好，什麼時候可以給本席一個答復？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:33.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:34.247000+08:00","text":"你們什麼時候開始做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:39.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:41.310000+08:00","text":"我們大概兩個月時間規劃出來，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:41.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:41.430000+08:00","text":"兩個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:41.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:47.313000+08:00","text":"之前前面那一題，我們對於輸中晶片管制法規的修改，什麼時候可以做？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:49.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:51.655000+08:00","text":"那個部分我們還是要跟國安單位討論一下。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:51.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:53.216000+08:00","text":"如果本席提案，你會不會支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:54.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:54.777000+08:00","text":"立法院提案，支不支持？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:54.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:55.057000+08:00","text":"經濟部會不會反對？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T11:04:58.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:04:59.926000+08:00","text":"立法院提案，我們只能尊重啊！尊重？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:00.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:01.208000+08:00","text":"好，那就這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:01.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:13.086000+08:00","text":"主席站起來了，我相信主席也不會反對，我們就希望針對輸中晶片的管制，也就是貿易法第二十七條、第二十七條之二趕快著手修改，本院會提案，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:13.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:13.687000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝鍾佳濱委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:14.187000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:17.044143+08:00","text":"我們現在休息10分鐘，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:17.344143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:18.487000+08:00","text":"休息（11時5分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:18.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:20.501286+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時16分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:20.801286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:22.515571+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T11:05:22.815571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:05:26.529857+08:00","text":"接下來請謝委員衣鳯委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}